Hello everyone.

Tim Winders here.

Welcome to episode one of what's gonna be a five part series, and this

one's titled I'll Get to all this later, what Bono has or seems to have.

C. S Lewis predicted and most of us are.

Missing.

Yeah, that's a little bit of a teaser here for the first episode, and a lot

of themes we're gonna be looking at here, identity versus performance.

Talking about the new man that CS Lewis discussed in his book, mayor

Christianity, and why this matters for us and sort of my journey that I've been

on for the last two or three years in.

Trying to be clear on what this book here, for those people that might

be watching on the video, the Bible really means, and this is coming from

someone who's been reading it and thinking, I've been studying it for

30 plus years and coming to terms with just really over the last few years,

Understanding it more, maybe not completely, but more, but let me tell

you what this season is all about.

and it sort of revolves around this question of what if the thing you're

missing isn't more effort doing more hustling more, but just having more.

Peace.

That's sort of the opposite of what we're taught in the world we're in

today, but it's what we hear about in the Bible and scriptures and

something that I've been walking out really more over the last few years.

I don't think I've arrived.

And the second thing, I guess the question is, what if the confusion you feel about

maybe your faith or life or things that are going on, the surroundings, what's

happening in the world, it's because you've been trying to become something

that God never asked you to become.

And so we're gonna talk about that a good bit in not just this episode.

But this next five part series and this series is, I'm titling it Why The

Bible doesn't Make Sense Yet, and it's a five part journey through confusion,

context, and what I'm calling Kingdom.

Clarity.

If you've ever felt stuck in your faith or unsure about maybe what scripture

means or there are just certain chunks of the Bible that you go, I don't know

what is going on there, what it really means, you're in the right place.

That's what we're gonna be discussing here.

'cause that's where I was a few years ago after I had gone to Bible school,

after I had attended churches and studied for a large portion of my life.

And in many ways I almost disconnected from a lot of that and just spent

quiet time studying, being at peace and rest, and learning more about

what the story of the Bible really is.

So I wanna welcome you to this series.

As I said earlier, I'm Tim Winders.

This is my walk from striving to abiding, from making scripture

fit to letting it speak.

So, let's begin.

Let's get started.

Most of you know I typically broadcast, or I typically share my episodes

and do our interviews from the RV, from our moving and mobile office.

Theo that we've named our rv, but, not now, not for this series.

I believe, and maybe not for the next few interviews I'm gonna be doing, I'm

actually in a location in the Atlanta metro area where I'm doing some work.

More and more I'm traveling in and out of here.

So I've set up in a spare bedroom.

I've got some shelves with some.

I guess just some props behind me.

'cause these aren't necessarily mine.

I'm gonna be adding my books and all of these shelves over time.

I do have my studio set up here and I'm still sort of getting used to it.

So you're, you're stepping into it just like myself.

But, welcome into the, Atlanta Metro version of Seek, go Create studios.

I think we're gonna have fun with this because I'm actually gonna be

setting up here over to my right.

I guess it'll be your left.

There's gonna be a place where I could do in person interviews

and I'm hopeful to do that.

I think that's gonna be fun.

I just wanna mention for those that might be going, wait, where's the rv?

He's not in the RV currently as I'm recording this, the RV is still located

in the Black Hills of South Dakota.

I'm in the Atlanta area and my wife Gloria is here with me for the next few weeks.

Then we'll be flying back to, South Dakota.

So that's kinda what's going on.

But let's dive in.

This is.

Kind of an important, I guess topic for me.

I have been not wrestling with it, but I've just been wondering how I wanted

to share this part of my journey.

You know, seek, go Create is really a journey type podcast.

That's what we talk about when we interview guests, and it's really been

my journey now for 300 plus episodes.

And this next series, or these next few episodes are really me trying to

capture what I've been through, what I've been journeying, or the path

I've been going down for the last really 3, 4, 5 years, but for the

last two years, really, really strong.

With just coming to understand things a little bit more.

And the cool thing about this episode is it's kind of come to a head with

a recent podcast that I listened to with Bono on Joe Rogan's podcast.

I recently read Mayor Christianity from CS Lewis, and it kind of gave me the.

Theme that I want us to begin with as we sort of travel down this

path that I've been going down.

So, so we're starting with this, we're starting with Bono Cs Lewis,

the Bible, and, we're gonna, we're gonna have some fun with it.

Many of you may or may not know my past is that I've always been, I've

kind of told people I'm a child of the sixties and seventies and I came.

To my work, I guess my work world and all kind of came into being in the eighties.

In the eighties.

For those of you that might be young and don't remember,

it was the go go go eighties.

there was a movie called Wall Street.

Gordon Gecko was in that movie There was a statement that he made

that's, greed is good, and that was sort of the way that I lived.

I was gonna be successful, I was gonna make money.

I probably had a. Bit of a spiritual foundation from people that had

been praying for me over the years, grandparents and things like that.

But I was just going to be successful.

My college life, what I wanted to do, the work I wanted to do was all

about succeeding and much of that revolved around financial success.

And I was going at it.

I would, would've been a definition if you looked in the dictionary

under hustle, culture or hustle.

That would've been me in the eighties, nineties, probably into the two thousands.

And I was just striving to succeed.

I wanted to impress.

I wanted to make my mark.

I wanted to perform, I wanted to produce, and I was doing that even after I came

to know Christ in the early nineties in ministry and even in leadership.

I was still striving.

I mean, even when I knew that Jesus said My peace.

I bring and give to you.

I still felt like if, if it was to be, it was up to me.

I mean, I was chasing, and some of you may be able to relate to that.

I mean, I was just go, go, go.

I would convince myself I wasn't tired and exhausted.

I was living off of adrenaline and all of that was fine and good.

I mean, I had some ups and downs along the way.

Worked corporate for a while, had my own business.

We had our own businesses in the early two thousands, but I could tell you

when it started unraveling, it started unraveling in 2008 when multiple companies

that we had all in real estate, we were living in a big house, thought we were

doing well, all that kind of stuff.

When all of that stuff, I realized that I. Couldn't do what I wanted to do.

I couldn't impress, I couldn't just hustle my way out of things.

I couldn't do it under my own power.

I realized as I sort of hit a wall and financially we went, went

through bankruptcy, I had burnout.

I questioned a lot of things.

I questioned a lot of things spiritually.

I. I say I spent a lot of time in prayer.

It was probably a lot of whining and just crying out to the Lord.

I hit a wall and most people have hit a wall.

You know, there's the theme that I've seen as I do a lot of

interviews on seek, go create of people making significant change.

In their lives only after some catalytic event.

Well, my catalytic event was 2008, roughly to 2012, 13, where we went through

this slow downward spiral of losing our home, becoming homeless, going bankrupt

financially, not knowing What we were going to do, and that is when we, left

our home of 6,000 square feet ish, whatever, and moved into a Honda van.

I only mentioned the size of the house, to give you the perspective

of going from big to extremely small, putting a few things in storage.

Thankfully we had some family that helped us out to keep us

from just being totally destitute.

But, we just hit the road and traveled and did that for a few years.

Then went to Bible school for a few years, and then financially

we were doing much better.

and then, my wife said we should move into an rv.

So that's kind of the story that led to the rv.

But what happened during that time after oh eight?

It forced me.

I was forced to slow down and reevaluate everything,

including how I understood this.

I'm holding it up for people in the, on the, uh, that are listening in,

but for people watching the video.

I had to rethink how I understood the Bible because what I had been doing

up to that point, and really up until just a few years ago, is I would

dive into the Bible and I would look for the formulas that would help me.

I. Succeed that would help me be successful.

I mean, I had a pretty healthy background in the Prosperity Gospel and that's, you

know, kind of the base and foundation of that is taking scriptures and

trying to use them for your success.

It's a lot more than that, but that's what I was doing.

And the reason I bring it up is I know a lot of people do that.

I believe modern churches.

Most of them, I believe, and especially in, Americanized or westernized

churches, they really have that prosperity gospel baked into them.

And so I think a lot of people deal with that.

I'm gonna talk about the journey that I went through and some of the

realizations that I came to just from a spiritual foundation in some

of the episodes that are coming up.

But what I wanna do here is I want to, I. I wanna kind of begin as

Covey would say with the end in mind.

And so the best description I've seen of the end is what CS Lewis

describes in Mayor Christianity.

Now, not too long ago I decided to read Mayor Christianity and

my wife Gloria loves CS Lewis, and I don't dislike CS Lewis.

It's just.

Man.

He is, he is rich with his language.

And, and I, I've tried to read through the Narnia stories.

You know, he wrote The Chronicles of Narnia, which are famous, I guess

in the, in the circles of fiction and also in spiritual fiction world.

But I, I just can't quite get.

Through those and, and glory.

My wife says, you need to read CS Lewis because of this and

his understanding and his depth.

And I don't disagree with that.

so what I did was, sometime back I decided I was gonna read, mayor Christianity.

Got a copy of it right here, mayor Christianity.

Which is sort of foundational.

It's not a fiction book like, the Chronicles of Narnia.

But what I wanted to do is I was just gonna go through it.

I was gonna read a chapter a day, meditate on it, think about it.

And I did that.

For those that may not be aware mere Christianity, Is a book that CS Lewis,

it's a book that came from some talks that he did during World War ii.

He's British and Britain, the islands were being bombed by Germany much of this time.

There was a lot of fear, there was a lot of things going on.

And I think what he was doing was, some of those talks that he did on the radio

was just trying to make sense of it.

trying to project some peace and all for people, I believe

is what he was trying to do.

I'm, I think I've read that history.

And so I enjoyed it because they took those talks and then

put them in a book or he did.

And then, so that's the book, mayor Christianity.

But I really, I didn't enjoy it like I believe I should until the last

chapter, which is titled The New Man.

And I'm going to get to that in just a moment and talk more about it.

But when I read that chapter, Bells went off in my head and I went, that is my

goal, is to be what he's talking about.

That's what I've been seeking.

That's what I've been searching for.

That's the feeling, the nourishment that I want to have in my soul

is what he describes there.

And I'll talk about it more in just a moment, but let me mention the second

thing that I wanna talk about in this.

A few weeks ago, I listened to Joe Rogan from time to time.

I don't listen to all his stuff, but I, I love what he's able to do with a.

Three, three and a half hour interview.

I wish I could do those.

I wish I could have guests that we could just talk and go into depth.

Because one of the things I don't think you could do with a long form interview

is I don't think you could hide.

I think that.

Who you are can be flushed out.

I don't think you could pretend for that period of time.

but Bono was on Joe Rogan, and I've always been intrigued by Bono.

he's one that years ago, I mean, I love his music.

I'm a child of the eighties and all that.

When U2 and the Bandies in were becoming popular and doing well,

and a few years ago I did see.

U2 on their Joshua Tree tour where they did the entire Joshua Tree album.

Streets With No Name and all those cool songs.

They did that in Concert Live.

That was really, really cool.

Saw those in stadiums.

So I like Bono, but I, I've never really heard him speak at length.

Well, I'll tell you that this long form interview that he

did with Joe Rogan, I was just sitting here in my mind going, he.

Seems to be.

One of the new men, the new man that CS Lewis is talking about.

Bono seems to be in that place.

And some of you, if you're cynical, you would say, well, he is got a lot of money.

He's famous and all that.

Yeah.

It's not that a lot of people that are famous and have a lot of

money, they don't have that piece.

They, they're, they're just going through a mess and we see a lot of that play out.

Bono's just.

He's relaxed and I, I, I know he is, got a spiritual presence to

him and there's just a piece there.

He was on there, he was promoting a book, I believe, but that it didn't

feel like there was an agenda.

He was just abiding.

And that's when it hit me as I was listening to Joe Rogan.

Not long before I had read this Mayor Christianity, the chapter,

the new man that CS Lewis discussed, and it just went, bam.

That is an example of what CS Lewis was talking about, and it's

an example of what I desire, I seek to be that that is described.

I'm gonna describe it in just a moment so you'll know what I'm talking about.

that is.

What we're looking at here, and I think what I wanna do now is I

want to, define a little bit more of what CS Lewis was talking about.

So my apologies, but I'm actually gonna read a little bit from

the, mayor Christianity book.

And again, everything that I'm talking about here is from the last chapter.

So anyway, I've got a bunch of things highlighted in this last chapter.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna just kinda hit some of those so that

you can get a flavor of it.

I recommend this book, definitely Mayor Christianity, but I really

recommend the last chapter and, and to me again, it's what.

It's what we're working towards.

So one of the things he mentions here is that we are not looking for improvement.

I think many times I would read scripture, I would go to church,

I would try to have relationship with Christ in order to improve.

But what CS Lewis, says here is that we're not looking for mere

improvement or being better.

What we are desiring is transformation and that is being a new man.

That's what he talks about here.

So that was one underline, and then CS Lewis says here, I should

not be surprised if when the thing happened, very few people noticed.

That it was happening.

In other words, the transformation to being a new man.

And, anyway, he's just kind of giving some history here, he says, and really

what we're doing is we're looking to make a change from being creatures of God

to this is so good to being sons of God later when I talk about in other episodes.

What the story of the Bible is all about.

I believe that's what it's all about.

It's about us moving from being creatures of God to being sons of God.

That's very important when one starts trying to understand books like revelation

and eschatology and end times is, is what we're moving towards or being sons of God.

Let's see something else.

Here we are.

He talks about the steps of going from being a creature to being a son.

It is voluntary.

It's something that we do pursue and allow and also receive it, but we do have

that choice and a lot of people get maybe confused about that, but it is a choice,

and so it's a journey that we go on.

That's what we talk about here on Seek Go.

Great.

This is the journey that we go on.

And one of the things CS Lewis says, he says, I have called Christ

the first instance of a new man.

He's the first.

He is the new man.

And then one of the things I wanna do, this is the paragraph that when I read

this, it just exploded in my mind.

I'm going, that's it.

That's it.

That's it.

That's what I desire to be.

So I'm gonna read a little bit, my apologies, but this is from

almost the end of the book.

And c. S Lewis says already, the new men are dotted here

and there all over the earth.

Some, as I have admitted, are still hardly recognizable, but others can be recognized

every now and then one meets them.

Their very voices and faces are different from ours.

Stronger, quieter, happier, more radiant.

They begin where most of us leave off, they are, I say recognizable,

but you must know what to look for.

They will not be very like the idea of religious people, which you have

formed from your general reading.

They do not draw attention to themselves.

They tend to think that you are being kind to them when they are really.

Being kind to you.

They love you more than other men do, but they need you less.

They will usually seem to have a lot of time.

You will wonder where it comes from when you have recognized one of them.

You will recognize the next one much more easily.

Anyway, to put it at the very lowest, it must be great, great fun.

And here's what CS Lewis says about it.

And this is really, I guess, the exclamation point on the journey.

He said it is something like that with Christ and us, the more we get what

we now call ourselves out of the way.

And let him take us over.

The more truly ourselves we become In that sense, our real selves

are all waiting for us in him.

When we hear that term in Christ, that's what it is.

So it's a real giving up of self.

And you know that there's a word that we hear a lot, and that word is authentic.

It's real.

And sometimes we don't know exactly what that means.

That's what CS Lewis I think is capturing in this new man is being authentic.

So the reason that I tied that in with Bono is that I don't

think we have a lot of examples.

Bono was a great example and so that's the reason that I wanted to talk about.

Bono on this.

You know, there, there are some other examples.

I may get to them in just a moment, but, uh, you just know it some,

here's some descriptions that I've taken to kind of help me with it.

The new man is calm.

Is present.

Peaceful.

They're secure in their identity, comfortable in their own skin.

They're not reactive.

They seem to be more proactive.

Nothing seems to shock or surprise them.

They're not addicted to performance.

I told you that I was maybe still are a little bit working on that.

They're comfortable in their own skin.

They're just at peace and relaxed.

You don't feel hurried.

They don't feel distracted.

You know, we're a very distracted world in society right now, but think, like

I said, bono, if you go listen to that Joe Rogan episode, he's just relaxed.

Bono, one of the biggest rock stars I think in the world.

Most people know who he is.

It is just sitting there with Joe Rogan having conversation

telling him, you know what?

you've got a good touch, a good feel for what's going on in society.

I wanted to come talk to you.

He's telling Joe Rogan that Bono is telling him that.

So anyway, Bono's a great example.

Another great example that seems to be this way is Fred Rogers, Mr. Rogers.

He was cool and peaceful and relaxed and, You know, just invited people in.

You just kinda wanted to be around him.

Didn't get bogged down with a lot of junky stuff.

Just kinda seemed to rise above it.

A few others that sort of seemed that way to me.

Dallas Willard, Eugene Peterson, you know, they lived quiet, powerful, anchored.

Lives and I'm sure there are others and maybe, maybe it's tough to look

at examples like this and probably a lot of people that we don't even

know who they are, are this way.

And I think that that is, I think it's good to just have examples like that.

Alright, so if we talk about the new man, we need to contrast the old man.

And I can do this because I. Believe I was that way.

Always anxious.

Very performative caught in comparison and in the world we're in today

with social media, the comparison thing can just eat away at you.

It can just knowledge your soul.

Always striving for approval, always trying to impress,

and that is the old man now.

Why does this matter?

For what we're talking about with this series, many will read scripture.

Or the Bible or they'll go to church or they'll do their spiritual stuff like

it's a to-do list or a self-help guide, or they're, they will try to twist scriptures

to fit their beliefs and dogmas guilty.

Guilty, guilty.

I have done that.

I have taken scripture and taught on it and shared information and, and,

and I've known that maybe I didn't have a full grasp of the biblical story.

Well, only in the last few years, have I. Come to grasp the biblical story more.

The Bible is about a transformed identity living from who we are in

Christ, not toward it, not seeking it, not looking to get to that.

And this shift made me realize how off track my reading had been.

How what I was trying to do was.

Find something that would fit with how I was living, not change

the way I was living to make it fit the biblical narrative.

And it just really set the foundation for everything else.

Now, the thing that I don't want to do, but I'm about to do it, so I'm letting

you warn, I'm warning you right up front, is I don't want to get in the

mode of just plucking out scriptures.

I see that happen so much.

I don't wanna do that, but.

It.

There are some scriptures that I'm gonna use to kinda hammer home.

I guess what we're talking about here, second Corinthians five 17, if anyone

is in Christ, he is a new creation and that is what we are moving towards

a new creation, both individually and I believe as a society and as

a culture and as a family of God.

Romans 12, two be trans.

Formed by the renewing of your mind.

And then John 15, five, abide in me apart from me talking

about Christ apart from me.

You can do.

Nothing.

And so that's where, that's the journey we're walking on, and I

wanted to kind of set the stage for what CS Lewis called the New Man.

The example that I saw in Bono.

I. As what we are maybe moving towards.

Not that we're trying to put Bono up with Christ or see us Lewis with Christ,

but they just provide us examples.

So, and listen, here's the deal.

If we don't know who we are.

The Bible will always feel like pressure, not peace.

And in fact, a lot of people can get all uncomfortable if they're in a religious

setting where they're trying to establish all these rules and regulations law,

and they could use these scriptures.

It's easy to do and create pressure, not peace.

This Bible, I'm putting my hand on it right here.

It should.

Bring peace if we understand what that story is.

And then next time, in the next episode, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna share

why after decades, literally decades of being in church and studying,

going to Bible school for a few years.

I still didn't understand the Bible story, and here's what I know from

interacting with a lot of people, churches, bible school, things like

that, they don't understand it either.

And I'm not trying to be critical.

I'm not trying to judge or condemn.

I just know that was my journey.

And I know from interacting with people, it's their journey too.

And so I am gonna walk through how I began unlearning so I could relearn what.

Was true.

So, listen, next time get ready because, we're gonna get into more of, you

know, how to truly, truly understand what the story of the Bible really is.

We'll see you next week on Seek, go Create.