Heather Shannon (00:01.368)
Hello, my friends. We are back with another amazing guest episode. And we're going to talk about a topic that we've never fully, fully explored on the show, which is embodiment, which I'm going to let our guests explain a little bit more of what that means. But I will first introduce our guest. So today we have Jesse Marino, an embodiment mentor and ritualist and the founder of Wild Essence.
a witchy movement devoted to helping people reclaim their sensual aliveness, sovereignty, and connection to self, each other, earth, and the rich magic in it all. With over two decades in the healing and wellness space, Jessie weaves neuroscience, embodied devotion, witchcraft, and soulful self-expression into the immersive experiences that catalyze deep homecoming. She's guided thousands through retreats, mentorships, and somatic journeys,
that bring people back to their bodies, their magic, and their full aliveness. So welcome, Jesse. Thank you so much for being here.
Jessi Marino (01:08.258)
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to talk about this.
Heather Shannon (01:12.83)
I that. I'm very curious because we've never had any witchy stuff on here, which almost seems surprising because I like all of the woo. Yeah, all the metaphysical things. And yeah, I think we've kind of hinted around the embodiment concept. But can you define that for us just to like kick things off?
Jessi Marino (01:26.657)
Hmm
Jessi Marino (01:36.074)
Yeah, I can do the best I can to define because it's such a felt sense thing. I feel like the best way to explain it is like home in body. Like feeling home in body is what I would consider to be embodiment. There's a big difference for me between the mechanical functions of the system and a
Heather Shannon (01:38.53)
Yes.
Heather Shannon (01:42.784)
Yes.
Jessi Marino (02:03.288)
quality of presence, of being truly, truly in here and now, which I know you know from the realms of all types of healing, presence is the thing, right? So it's a huge aspect of presence and home in the body for me.
Heather Shannon (02:14.764)
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (02:18.648)
huge. I that's a great definition. Actually, I think when you were kind of saying I can't define it, because it's a felt sense. I'm like, that is the definition. love that. yeah, was like, that's perfect. And yeah, we I talk a lot about kind of like mindfulness and stuff and being in touch with your senses. And so there's definitely some overlap there. But I think it also kind of depends, like, the whole the word home, I think is important, because it's kind of like
Jessi Marino (02:24.728)
Yeah, exactly.
Jessi Marino (02:38.424)
For sure.
Jessi Marino (02:45.857)
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (02:46.316)
we're visiting sensory presence or is it like, yeah, I'm actually just feeling this whole sense of being at home in my body. How did you get into this?
Jessi Marino (02:56.088)
Absolutely.
from being so far removed from my body, think, is really the doorway, right? We end up in the exact medicine that we needed. I was very dissociated from my flesh as a small child. I think in so many ways trying to figure out how to digest my world, which is, think, what we're always doing. We're trying to digest the stimulus of being alive and
Heather Shannon (03:03.384)
Makes sense.
Heather Shannon (03:20.398)
you
Jessi Marino (03:25.492)
in a world and surrounding systems that really don't support our organisms thriving the way that they might desire to. So we have so much dissociation.
Heather Shannon (03:25.688)
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (03:33.986)
Yep. On so many levels. We don't have time for that. That could be a whole other podcast. Yeah.
Jessi Marino (03:41.56)
Exactly, So much dissociation and numbness and I started gaining extra weight at like six or seven years old. So from that time on, I feel like that was the kind of disconnect from the body was like my system wasn't sure how to be here. And so I started doing things, yeah, doing things to dilute or numb or salve sensations that we aren't taught how to
be with sensation and emotion in the way, like from very small. So I really rode that wave all the way up until I was in my late teens. And then I was like, this is not working. It's not working. And I started, I lost a hundred pounds when I was 18.
Heather Shannon (04:23.5)
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (04:28.971)
my gosh. Okay.
Jessi Marino (04:30.582)
Yeah, but I did it like a machine, right? Like I looked at the body and I said, okay, this in, this out, do these movements, be what I want you to be. And so, you know, even then it was like the body was almost a malfunctioning machine rather than a home organism that I needed. So, yeah. Yeah.
Heather Shannon (04:38.126)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Heather Shannon (04:48.916)
That makes me feel so sad just listening to it. But also I relate. mean, I think there's a lot actually overlap with my story too. So I feel like I'm a very sensitive person. Sometimes there's this sense of like, it would be so intense if I actually felt all the things. And I think we all do this to some degree. There's like this buffering of like, how can we insulate, protect, dampen the sensations of life, of stimulation, of emotion, of...
Jessi Marino (04:59.414)
Mm-hmm.
Jessi Marino (05:04.32)
Hmm.
Jessi Marino (05:08.534)
Yeah.
Jessi Marino (05:15.018)
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Heather Shannon (05:17.474)
Yeah, even if like wonderful like source energy moving through us, you can also feel like super overwhelming.
Jessi Marino (05:22.19)
totally.
that's a huge part of my work is like, is there space for joy? Is there space for joy? Is there space for pleasure? Like, because really the way we do any kind of digestion, like whatever our capacity is for any sensation, that's about what our capacity is, right? Even from like an arousal, polyvagal perspective of just like how much, how big of a bite of life can we take, whatever the flavor palette is. And so we're slowly growing capacity to be with everything that's here, which is really cool.
Heather Shannon (05:27.66)
Yeah. Yeah.
Heather Shannon (05:47.01)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (05:55.254)
Yeah, yeah, think that's true. I'm also curious if you could kind of explain to people listening, because I'm sure we have lots of other sensitive people. I also think there's an overlap. I don't know if you've thought about this with neurodivergence and being psychic or very sensitive. Yeah, OK, so we agree on that. Yeah, I just want to interrupt.
Jessi Marino (05:56.173)
Yeah.
Jessi Marino (06:04.183)
Yeah.
Jessi Marino (06:12.92)
yeah. yeah.
Heather Shannon (06:17.166)
things where I don't know as much of the data on my podcast listeners, but my clients for sure, like I don't even really advertise anything about neurodivergence. And it's like 80 % of my clients, which I think is so interesting. I mean, I'm neurodivergent too. No, but like, yeah.
Jessi Marino (06:27.756)
Mm-hmm.
It, yeah. It's fascinating. Like I do think that our, almost like our, the processing system through which we experience our world, right? Our receptivity, all of our clairs, all of our sensory feelers, almost like our antennas for processing. There's the processing systems that are very linear that we were taught we're supposed to assess through. And then there's this.
Heather Shannon (06:43.404)
Thank you.
Heather Shannon (06:56.75)
Mm-hmm.
Jessi Marino (06:58.144)
wide palette of other ways of digesting and interpreting. And I think that that's a big piece of the magic of it all.
Heather Shannon (07:03.63)
Yeah. Let's start with what we're taught, because I think that's what people are going to probably relate to the most. Oh, So what do you think are sort of the things that we've been taught? What have you observed?
Jessi Marino (07:17.548)
think that we are taught that our bodies are machines, number one, so that's a big piece of the puzzle. And I think we're also taught to look at everything through a lens of logic. And I think that those two things really create this mechanical...
Heather Shannon (07:22.989)
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (07:28.93)
Yes.
Jessi Marino (07:36.962)
function for a very like organismic experience, right? Like we are very much animals who have such a wide capacity for experiencing and it's really limited, you know, especially when we're only taught we can see through one little tunnel of what's happening. And I think, I mean, that's in so many ways weaves into our capacities for pleasure and connection and intimacy as well, because it's like,
Heather Shannon (07:54.775)
Yeah.
Jessi Marino (08:04.5)
we're looking at everything through that lens of logic and we're looking at bodies as they're either working or they're not working and here's all the ways they're not working rather than, you know, they're experiencing arousal and stimulus and having a conversation with life and with the world around us all the time. Like, that's so much more poetic of an existence to look at it through that lens, but we, you know, we can't, we can't mechanical, we can't do it mechanically.
Heather Shannon (08:26.766)
You
Heather Shannon (08:33.774)
And I think society especially does men a disservice. feel like people socialize as female are at least allowed to have emotions. You're at least allowed to cry. You can be a little bit sensitive and not have that feeling completely pathologized. But for me, even as a woman, I definitely felt like there was a lot of messages of like, no, we don't really want to witness your painful feelings and emotions. Those are not really great. So if you could just not do those around us.
Jessi Marino (08:43.0)
Yeah. Yep.
Yeah.
Jessi Marino (08:57.665)
Yeah.
Jessi Marino (09:01.016)
Yep. Yep. Because we don't know how to be with them, so we're uncomfortable. Yep.
Heather Shannon (09:03.05)
Who's that?
Right? So that would be like an example. And then yeah, it's like even with, you know, I've had a variety of health symptoms for years that I keep learning through. And I know that also triggers other people, which is so interesting, right? So then I think that's kind of saying like, we can't see your symptoms, we can't see, it's the logic, it's the physicalness of it all. It's like, we have to able to see it to believe it. So then it's like, and then that's
Jessi Marino (09:21.067)
See you.
Jessi Marino (09:25.227)
Absolutely.
Jessi Marino (09:33.336)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (09:38.062)
feels like an emotional burden on people, because again, they don't have the capacity. So it's really fascinating. And so if you're listening, maybe reflect on what are some experiences you've had that have kind of separated you from your emotions or from your body, or invalidated your experience.
Jessi Marino (09:45.206)
Yeah.
Jessi Marino (09:54.868)
Yeah.
Absolutely. And just what you've been taught about what you're allowed to feel, what is healthy or safe to feel. think that that, you know, it's such that we live in such a limited capacity for how much is accessible. And that's, it makes me sad because I watch what happens when we allow for more space for gratitude. When we allow for more space for gratitude.
Heather Shannon (10:07.075)
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (10:21.868)
Yeah.
Jessi Marino (10:22.52)
It comes with its sister grief and they walk through the door together and they can't go one at a time. So we have to feel them both at once. And there's things like that. It's like the idea of you're only feeling one emotion at a time. I think that's wild for me. I feel 27 emotions at a time. don't know why. Just like I feel 27 sensations at a time. So yeah, it's an interesting thing we're taught.
Heather Shannon (10:39.106)
Yeah. I know!
Heather Shannon (10:49.39)
It's true. And I don't know if you're...
Jessi Marino (10:51.436)
Are you happy or sad?
Heather Shannon (10:54.542)
Sorry, what? Yeah, two binary options, right? That's what we're typically presented with. Yeah.
So I do internal family systems and it fits so well with what you're saying. So like the parts work. And so whenever there's a bunch of parts coming up, I call it a parts party. And, you know, kind of this idea that like we can name all the emotions and we can welcome all of them. And we actually don't have to just be in one emotional state. And sometimes it's, you know, I get to watch people kind of going through like, wait, there's this other thing popping up, but it doesn't fit with the first one. I'm like, yes. And that's okay.
Jessi Marino (11:05.386)
love parts.
Jessi Marino (11:13.292)
Okay.
Jessi Marino (11:20.248)
Mm.
Jessi Marino (11:25.976)
The dissonance, the dissonance of like this can hurt while this over here has like either numbness or neutrality, like how profound that my elbow is not really having any sensations, but over here there's something that's achy and that's okay, just like you would with, you your part. It's very much that. It's like creating the neutrality towards the sensations. And one thing I do really love about body-based work paired with like IFS perspectives and things like that is
Heather Shannon (11:35.276)
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (11:43.054)
Yeah!
Heather Shannon (11:48.718)
Uh-huh.
Jessi Marino (11:56.056)
we're developing and cultivating the capacity to be neutral towards what's happening in the system, which is beautiful, maybe eventually compassionate, which is super cool. And then also the stuff that maybe doesn't fit into a category or doesn't have language still gets to happen, right? So if there's a sensation, it gives it space, which is really beautiful.
Heather Shannon (12:05.752)
amazing.
Heather Shannon (12:13.742)
Mm-hmm. What?
Heather Shannon (12:20.014)
appreciate you saying that because even when I've been the client in IFS, I'm like, I don't know, there's a color I'm just sensing that there's a color there. You know, like there's something, but it is hard to give it words. And so I love that idea of just like, not having to, you know,
Jessi Marino (12:23.328)
Yeah.
Jessi Marino (12:28.362)
Yeah, exactly.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it's a huge, the logical mind gets to rest for a moment and we get to just trust that our bodies know what to do is a huge thing. We're taught not to trust our bodies in so many areas.
Heather Shannon (12:48.94)
And our bodies are like absolute geniuses.
Jessi Marino (12:52.662)
and they're our best friend. They're trying so hard, every day, all day, just like, I'm really trying to support you, I'm not really sure what you want me to do right now, but I'm trying, all day, every day.
Heather Shannon (13:00.684)
Yes, I know. And yeah, our bodies are really amazing. And I think, you know, people who have gone through like major illnesses, or, you know, I had a lot of people like post cancer journey, you know, I think there's like a new appreciation or even, you know, I tore my ACL and it was like, I used to think my thighs were too muscular. And now I realized how great that was. Yeah, was like, my muscles were such a blessing.
Jessi Marino (13:05.464)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, same.
Jessi Marino (13:16.193)
Yeah.
Jessi Marino (13:20.712)
Yeah, failure. Completely a failure.
Thank you, thank you buddy, you tried so hard.
Heather Shannon (13:30.286)
I'm like, please give it back. So yeah, I'm sure people listening can have something to relate that to. like, even if you've just been really sick with COVID or the flu or something to just, you know, use that as a way to kind of lean into embody that and appreciate your body, I think. Yeah. Okay. So anyway, so back to your journey. We, we, I digress a lot. Hashtag ADHD. Yeah, that's where we go.
Jessi Marino (13:33.662)
I understand that.
Jessi Marino (13:46.614)
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Yeah! It's all good. It's all good.
Heather Shannon (13:59.918)
But yeah, so you kind of your own journey with it, sounds like. And then at 18, you kind of had this experience of losing all this weight, but kind of in a mechanical way. And then what happens next? How did you find the other?
Jessi Marino (14:12.204)
Yeah, so it's wild actually. A friend of mine had started practicing energy work and I had my first experience with an energy worker where the person wasn't touching me and I started crying and I was like, what's going on? Something's happening. So that just got me wildly curious, which I think is just the best possible state you could be in is curiosity for me. So I'm just like, awesome. And I just.
went down all of these roads, which led me into yoga and I taught yoga for a really long time. I taught yoga teachers for a really long time. And I appreciated so much the presence aspect of that practice. And I started to find that even in that industry and that lens, there was still this place you were trying to get to, even when they tell you there wasn't.
You know, was like there was still a desire to do a shape in a particular way, or it was about the destination rather than the journey of like, it's not really about stepping into a low lunge. It's like, what does your foot discover along the way? Like how cool of a process, you know? And because it's like the way you do, the way you are being moved by life rather than again, telling your body what it should be and then comparing it to so many things, I think becomes a bit destructive. So.
Heather Shannon (15:22.762)
Yeah.
Jessi Marino (15:38.26)
my orientation to movement changed and I moved a bit away from the more structured process of movement and I started just having people wiggling and making sounds and rolling around and it started to look different, right? It started to look like, how do we learn how to listen? How do we learn how to not necessarily follow my cueing? You know, I'll be like the little bit of a light post along the way, but supporting the process of discovery that feels safe.
Heather Shannon (15:50.958)
you
Jessi Marino (16:07.166)
in bodies so that body feels like a place I can go and a place that I can trust. And so that that cultivation kind of has evolved over time. And I, you know, picked up a bunch of really cool bags along the way. I got really into ritual and magic and that relationship with nature. And that's really what it is for me. And because that's the the mother body, right? Like that's the body and that we all come from, which I think is just the coolest.
Heather Shannon (16:22.284)
Mm-hmm. Mm.
Jessi Marino (16:34.156)
thing in the entire world is our relationship to nature. So that kind of blew my mind. And then not that long ago, like five years or so ago, I started getting burnt out from how much online stuff I was doing, trying to share this beautiful message, doing a bunch of stuff online and coming away from the balance that I knew I needed. And my thyroid started being very upset with me. And that was kind of a catapulting me back into...
Heather Shannon (16:35.566)
Yeah.
Jessi Marino (17:02.166)
what I'm here to do and why I'm here to do it and how important it is. So it was kind of just like a, you say this matters Jess, now hold up that torch in the fire while you're experiencing it. So I got really sick for a little while and it just threw me back into what mattered to me and it's really gotten richer and deeper ever since then, which has been really cool. Yeah.
Heather Shannon (17:24.046)
That's amazing. Yeah, which makes me wonder, like, when we do have, you know, sickness or symptoms or whatever in our body that doesn't feel pleasurable, how do you encourage people to relate to that? Yeah. Okay.
Jessi Marino (17:34.454)
Mm-hmm.
Jessi Marino (17:38.276)
yeah.
Jessi Marino (17:44.556)
Yeah, I have a really cool thing for this. I have a cool thing for this. So just for context, when I first started getting sick and I didn't know what was going on, I felt like I had broken glass inside my joints. I felt like I could never sleep properly, but I was always tired. My hair was falling out, my skin was super, super dry. was like, what the hell is going on here? And...
I recognize that the only way that I was going to ride these waves was with as much neutrality and compassion as possible. So the way that I encourage people typically is if you encounter something in there that's not your favorite, like if you don't like anchovies, it's like if it's not your favorite, whether it's like a horrendous pain or whatever, it's just if it's not your favorite, go sit next to it.
Heather Shannon (18:29.1)
Hehehehehe
Heather Shannon (18:34.075)
Yeah.
Jessi Marino (18:36.864)
with your awareness like you would a friend on a park bench that you know is not interested in hearing your advice right now. Like you just need to sit with them. So you sit down and you're just like, hey there, honey, I'm right here. And you stay for as long as you need to stay with whatever's happening and watch the power of witnessing sensation.
Heather Shannon (18:44.344)
Yeah
Jessi Marino (19:01.952)
the power of not needing to change and be better and different because it's probably why it hurts in the first place is because it's living in a world where it's always told that it needs to be better and different. Pain sometimes just wants to hurt and you have to sit with it for a moment and be what it needs, be the support that it needs. And from an IFS standpoint, it's almost like that anchor core self, the true essence of who you are. some.
Heather Shannon (19:26.476)
Yes.
Jessi Marino (19:30.892)
Like for me, it's like my inner, like the kind of mama that I would want to be, like that parent piece that's just like, I'm right here with you while you're having this experience and it doesn't need to be different. Sensations will do profound things when witnessed in that way. Sometimes things do change very quickly. Sometimes things do move around and dissipate or become something else.
And if we can stay neutral, maybe a little curious and with time and I think practice, we can become not just compassionate, but devotional to how hard this organism loves us and tries so hard to love us through things. And that the pain is really just that effort of like, I'm really trying and the world is hard. Yeah. yeah. Yeah.
Heather Shannon (20:20.28)
beautiful way to look at it. I love that. Like the pain is the effort. Yeah.
Jessi Marino (20:26.602)
Bodies are trying. They are.
Heather Shannon (20:29.262)
So tell us about the ritual and magic. What is ritual and magic? How does one do a ritual or magic?
Jessi Marino (20:37.846)
Well, you already are. You're already doing ritual all the time. There's so many. mean, rituals are everything from brushing your teeth and washing your face. It's something you're repeating. It's an act that you're repeating because you've decided that it matters. Right. And that can be as extravagant or as simple and silly as we need it to be. But I'm very much a person who, like, rather than discipline, I lean towards the concept of devotion because it works better for my
my parts. My parts enjoy that, the devotional practice. So ritual for me is showing up for myself in ways that matter. And that could mean that I'm dancing for a couple of minutes every day. It could mean what I typically do, which is roll around and make weird noises for a couple of minutes. And it's the truth. Like I'm just kind of slithering on the ground and plopping from side to side because a body's just like, it wants to unravel. It wants to
be an animal that doesn't get to be. So roll around, let things ring out, let things air out. That might be my ritual practice. so ritual is really just like, it's an act of like a devotional deposit towards what matters to you. And if what matters to you is that you're cared for and you feel nurtured, then in this particular conversation around embodiment, it's like deposits of nurturance, right? Like continuing to come back in and say,
you matter body, here's how you matter, here's what I'll offer you. That could be your little walk, you're going to the gym, all of that is ritual. Now, can it be fun with some incense and some pretty things on the altar? Yeah, it can absolutely, for sure. And it's less about the stuff and more about the sense, right? It's more about where we are in our hearts. And for me, magic is just what you've talked about.
when you said source energy, feeling the experience of like the aliveness hitting you, to me, magic is like the current of life moving through the world. And every time we plug into that, we're touching the magic of the experience of being alive. And I do also believe as like when I tell people that I'm a practicing witch, what that means for me, I don't follow anybody's rules I never have, what it means.
Heather Shannon (22:58.83)
Okay.
Jessi Marino (23:00.578)
What it means for me is I feel like I get to be involved, not, can't control everything, but I get to be involved in the trajectory of how my life goes. And I'm getting to participate in some of those ways, right? I'm getting to participate in how I experience my moments, in how I navigate my emotions, in the kind of stuff that I lean into that's scary. Like those are choices, ways that I get to, cause they say like a witch is,
one who weaves her path, right? You're deciding, I'm gonna go this way. That to me is a casting in some capacity. It's like the empowerment, it's spicy psychology in many ways.
Heather Shannon (23:46.574)
You just said, yeah, it sounds like intention and even just decision making, you know? And I'm glad we're talking about the witch concept because I think it's something that gets sort of othered. And I think there's so many things that are metaphysical that get othered that's really like, it doesn't have to be this separate other thing and you're probably already doing some of it. So yeah, thank you for explaining that in such a grounded.
Jessi Marino (23:51.116)
Mm-hmm. Exactly.
Jessi Marino (24:00.131)
yeah, I know.
Jessi Marino (24:08.536)
Pretty much.
Heather Shannon (24:16.268)
way. Yeah, so let's also get into like, so let's people start leaning into this, they're like, okay, I'm being present with my body, and I'm being compassionate with its signals and appreciating it, listening more. How does this translate to my sex life? Curious, like, what have you seen with with your clients in terms of
Jessi Marino (24:17.336)
Okay.
Jessi Marino (24:35.8)
Mm-hmm.
Jessi Marino (24:42.284)
messages I've gotten. The messages I've gotten. When, when people come home to their bodies, the potential of sensory experience amplifies dramatically, right? So what is available grows tremendously, because the more we're able to sit with uncomfortable things, the more space there are for and I know you've talked about this a lot when it comes to even
Heather Shannon (24:51.16)
Mm-hmm.
Jessi Marino (25:08.618)
intimacy and relationships, when we open the doors to what's really going on, the capacity amplifies tremendously. So what I've found is that in my own body first and then with my clients, my willingness to have an experience of intense pleasure that also comes with grief.
If I wasn't willing to let myself feel what's there or feel my way through some of the maybe strange or new or different or uncomfortable sensations, the access point to some of the richness of juicy, yummy experience wouldn't be there either because it's such a narrow cavity of capacity. Yeah.
Heather Shannon (25:53.07)
Yep. Yeah, that makes so much sense. And that's a lot of how I explain like low libido. And I think also by low libido and depression tend to go together because it's like this overall dimming of life force energy. Because usually people do it.
Jessi Marino (25:59.82)
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (26:09.836)
Maybe sometimes subconsciously, where they're kind of like, I don't want to feel pain. I don't want to feel depressed. I don't want to feel bad. I don't feel whatever. But then it's through the almost not feeling or numbing, which is also a part, then they actually feel less alive and more depressed and less interested in the sexual expression.
Jessi Marino (26:16.769)
Yeah.
Jessi Marino (26:21.72)
Totally. Yeah.
Jessi Marino (26:27.456)
Exactly. Exactly. I speak to this often, like almost like a dimmer light switch. It's either you're either on or you're off and you feel whatever's in there when you're on, right? Whatever it is.
Heather Shannon (26:34.466)
Yep.
Heather Shannon (26:41.132)
Yes. Yeah, and I think everything you're describing, and I think just from like your presence as well, you can tell that like, there's a power that comes with being willing to feel. And it's so like counterculture kind of, because we're really taught to like, you know, again, don't feel things unless they're happy. But what we're willing to do
Jessi Marino (26:48.386)
Yeah.
Jessi Marino (26:52.097)
Hmm.
Jessi Marino (26:56.449)
yeah.
Jessi Marino (27:02.185)
Uh-huh. But then we can't feel the depth of happy, right?
Heather Shannon (27:05.646)
But then it's like you're living your life in a way, certainly I try to live my life in a way where it's like I'm not running away from pain. I'm not avoiding taking risks for my business or in relationships or being vulnerable because I'm scared of what's going to happen. It's not to say I don't feel a little scared. It's just like, I know I can handle it. I know I have the capacity. I know I can process it. And I definitely feel that from you too, where it's like you just approach life in a completely different way when you have capacity to process feelings.
Jessi Marino (27:27.532)
Resilience.
Jessi Marino (27:36.192)
Absolutely. I think that the resilience, which translates into everything we understand about how the brain just navigates life and the cultivation of that self-trust of like, I've been in here when there were waves, I've been in here when there were big hard things, I've ridden those waves and I have evidence that I can ride waves. I have evidence.
Heather Shannon (27:45.71)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (27:55.106)
Yes.
Jessi Marino (28:00.534)
that I've gotten up off of every bathroom floor I've ever collapsed on. I have evidence of this. And we start to cultivate those reminders that, you can feel things. Yes, you can navigate that. And I think without giving ourselves small, even titration, like small doses of experiences to show yourself that you can is huge.
Heather Shannon (28:14.509)
Right.
Heather Shannon (28:21.154)
Thank you.
Yes. Yes, I think that's right. Sometimes I tell my clients set a timer for one minute and feel your feelings.
Jessi Marino (28:31.815)
Exactly, exactly. A little bit at a time. Just a little bit at a time and then we can, you know.
Heather Shannon (28:34.252)
Yeah, I do that too. Yeah, sometimes I'm like, I don't this, but I know I'm supposed to. This is what I tell my clients. Sometimes I'll be like, okay, now that I did one minute, I'll do a second minute. And sometimes that's it. And other times I'll stay with it for a while and realize like, it's moving and it's processing and, you know, it's changing and I'm seeing the learning but it's like not until I'm willing to be with whatever emotion is present.
Jessi Marino (28:40.434)
Mm-hmm. Totally. know that.
Jessi Marino (28:47.509)
Yeah
Heather Shannon (29:02.742)
You know, can I get that?
Jessi Marino (29:05.175)
Absolutely. I'm big on like midwifing the moment in a way as a concept. you know, and you know, we're in an era on social media where everybody is talking about nervous system regulation, which I think we're, sometimes we're saying, sometimes we're talking about what's really happening and sometimes we're just trying to make feelings go away where we want to actually grow our capacity to experience. there's a,
Heather Shannon (29:12.622)
cute phrase.
Heather Shannon (29:21.582)
you
Jessi Marino (29:34.658)
tender place there of like tools for midwifing the moment, but also some arousal is part of feeling alive, right? There's going to be arousal, doesn't have to be a negative context arousal. So we do have to be able to contact changes and fluctuations in the system as it encounters stimulus. And so that's a big piece of the way that I navigate coming in here. I do a lot of like, okay, where's gravity? Look around, here you are.
Heather Shannon (29:38.464)
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (30:02.698)
Jessi Marino (30:03.958)
You know, she's never not caught you no matter how hard you hit that ground. She has never dropped you.
Heather Shannon (30:13.566)
be able to rely on gravity. But it's so true.
Jessi Marino (30:15.86)
Yeah, that's my biggest anchor point is my relationship to gravity, I think. She's got me again. Look at that, she's still got me. Yeah, kind of sweet.
Heather Shannon (30:23.232)
Yeah, that's so interesting. I never really thought about it that way. But yeah, it is. And I feel the same way you do about nature, Sometimes I don't always do group metaphysical things, sometimes a little bit. But I just like to go and walk and talk to the squirrels trees, or go to the ocean and ask it what the universe wants from me.
Jessi Marino (30:32.371)
Mm-hmm.
Jessi Marino (30:44.408)
Pretty much.
Jessi Marino (30:48.774)
I love it. You're already in conversation. Like that's the thing. I think, you know, we live in a world where we've been taught that we are on top of the nature in terms of like we're walking on it rather than we are a part of it. We're in the conversation. And that's a pretty profound realization is that you're part of it.
Heather Shannon (31:00.718)
Mmm.
Heather Shannon (31:09.432)
That actually squabels so much of what's wrong with the world.
Jessi Marino (31:12.95)
Yep. Story of my life.
Heather Shannon (31:17.374)
Right, right. We think we're like separate and on top of it. Yeah, that's very true and therefore
Jessi Marino (31:23.522)
You're part of it. You are the nature. It's not something that happens outside the window.
Heather Shannon (31:28.454)
that's very true. Well, hopefully someone who can solve some of the world problems is looking.
Jessi Marino (31:35.096)
I figure if I roll around and wiggle and make noises, then at least the way I show up to every conversation will be just a little bit more here. And that's my donation to the yet to be born.
Heather Shannon (31:45.422)
I mean, I think that's great that I love how you're describing it because it's also like so playful and silly. And I think sometimes I feel like all this healing work has to be so intense too. And it's like, while we're not running away from intensity, we can also be goofball.
Jessi Marino (31:53.035)
Yeah.
Jessi Marino (32:02.482)
Yeah, every single person that I know who walks in both worlds in terms of like priestesship and all that and my Druidru teachers and all of them, they are delirious in the best way. Like you have to, it has to be, because you really can't, you can't touch heavy things with that face. with the eye, you know, like the, that can't be, you have to be capable of meeting it with levity would be how they describe it.
Heather Shannon (32:14.478)
you
Jessi Marino (32:30.936)
Like you have to take the heavy things with levity because otherwise we take it so seriously that we crunch in around it and I think we keep it even more. So I think it's really important that we're tender around those edges of things that are stuck. Yeah.
Heather Shannon (32:44.63)
Yeah, I also want to just kind of say from from my journey and seeing clients to like, to me being in my body tends to feel so much better than being in my head. And not that we want to like ignore our heads and our heads part of our body, you know, but it's like, the idea of like, yeah, am I just like thinking in loops and forget that I have this whole body, you know, and I think that's like most of us most of the time. Yeah, to just be able to like lay down or go on a walk or go in water.
Jessi Marino (32:49.622)
Yeah.
Jessi Marino (32:58.36)
It helps sometimes.
Jessi Marino (33:05.591)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (33:14.382)
you know, touch another human or whatever it is. It's like, body, how nice.
Jessi Marino (33:17.922)
So much. So much so. I'm constantly asking my clients, remember you have legs? Remember you have legs? Because I swear to you, it's one of the first things that goes numb is feet and legs, they just stop noticing that they're there. And I'm like, yeah, did you remember? And then they go, every single time the toes go, like a little kid. And it's the most beautiful thing in the whole world to watch them come back to life or like...
Heather Shannon (33:25.826)
Hahaha
Heather Shannon (33:41.326)
Thank you.
Jessi Marino (33:45.848)
being in movement spaces and embodiment work for as long as I have, it's very cool to me to watch life re-enter tissue in certain areas. Like I can actually see life coming back into places that they weren't feeling and now they are. And I could see it from the outside now, cause it's like, there's a, it's fascinating to watch and it's not even like, it's almost like my body now.
Heather Shannon (34:05.633)
It's incredible.
Jessi Marino (34:15.074)
can feel, and we do, right? We're animals. We feel what bodies near us are feeling, which is why nervous system stuff and all these conversations, you can feel what's happening near you. So often I'm watching and I'm actually feeling into my own body when I'm working with people, especially one-on-one, where what's happening in their system I can feel too. And I think it's a beautiful thing to...
as I lean into my breath in a certain place, their body will then mirror some of that and I'll be able to support, you know, just through holding that presence, which is really, really cool too. Yeah. Yeah, it's really cool stuff. Yeah.
Heather Shannon (34:52.462)
So I'm kind of curious now, when, let's say someone's like, okay, I'm getting a little bit less in my head, a little more in my body, I'm communing with nature, I'm like feeling the things. What does that then look like in partnership? And like, what if your partner's not quite in the same level of embodiment that you're in yet?
Jessi Marino (35:02.924)
Mm-hmm.
yeah. I think it allows for a level of what I would, I guess what I would call maybe empathy or just capacity for intimacy because if you are that landed in your system, yeah, you'll see them more. So even if they're not.
Heather Shannon (35:24.918)
Thank
Jessi Marino (35:30.546)
riding the same wave with you, you can see into them more with more of your heart. I think there's a there's a heart coherence that can happen in that capacity where the more in the moment you are, the harder it is not to join you there. You know, because you're holding the frequency of presence like my partner, you know, we do this for each other very often where it's like, you know, if I'm a little scattery, or he's a little scattery and the other one
can just get real heavy and present and deep in breath and bring some eye contact or, know, yeah, tell me what's going on in there. And it just like, it's penetrating in like the most beautiful way. The presence is penetrating and it calls each other into that. And I feel like we're meant to be that for one another too, in so many ways in partnership. There's this really beautiful torch we can hold for one another when we need it, cause we're gonna.
know, we're gonna swirl around and sometimes he'll see me spinning or like stress cleaning. I'm a stress cleaner.
Heather Shannon (36:38.104)
wish I was a stress cleaner.
Jessi Marino (36:40.716)
He'll see me like scrubbing the bathtub and he'll come in and he'll just, he'll put his hand on my sacrum and I'll just be like, okay. I feel home again. There's that presence, which is why I think intimacy and sex is one of the most spiritual experiences of our lives. it really, mean, nothing has made me feel more here.
than the connections that I've been able to have in intimacy. And it's such healing to have a nourishing sex life, a nourishing relationship with sex. just every cell in the body is so nourished by that quality of intimacy. And so I'm all about it. And it's been so good for us. Yeah.
Heather Shannon (37:29.646)
That's amazing. I love that it sounds like you have a partner who can already like hold presents pretty well, which is nice.
Jessi Marino (37:35.608)
He's amazing. I mean, I'm definitely, I'm definitely, I remember the day that I was like, so I'm a witch, so let's get that out of the way. And he was like,
Heather Shannon (37:43.854)
Ha
Heather Shannon (37:48.27)
being hard on the first or second tape.
Jessi Marino (37:51.754)
He's like, what does that mean?
Heather Shannon (37:57.486)
response.
Jessi Marino (37:58.776)
he's always so curious. So curious. That was my biggest turn on. I love curiosity. Curiosity is the sexiest thing to me because it's like that means that you don't think you know things for sure, which means you're actually here.
Heather Shannon (38:12.738)
which means you're actually listening. Yeah, it's great. Yeah, I think that went a doubt.
Jessi Marino (38:14.868)
Yeah! beautiful. So yeah, so he's...
and I've had to teach him certain things, you know? That's been helpful for him. I've been like, okay, we're gonna sit, you know, when I'm having a big feeling and I'm like, okay, I need you to sit like this. I'm gonna get in your lap and feel my feelings and I just need you to breathe. You don't have to fix anything. I'm just gonna feel my feelings in your lap. And he's like, okay, am I doing it right?
Heather Shannon (38:21.506)
That's awesome. Okay.
So, yeah.
Heather Shannon (38:34.094)
you
Jessi Marino (38:43.562)
So good. He's so good. He's so good.
Heather Shannon (38:49.366)
Yeah, there's some wonderful people out there. And I mean, I love working with my clients because like, by nature, if they're coming to me, like they're willing to learn, they're willing to like be present, try in the process, you know. And it's not easy. Yeah. Yeah, but I love that. I, I there's something about just like holding space and it is some self energy. It's like when you're able to hold space.
Jessi Marino (38:52.083)
Yes, there are.
Jessi Marino (38:58.934)
Yes. Yes. I have to start somewhere. No. It's a big leap.
Heather Shannon (39:14.508)
without thinking you know everything without attaching to an outcome of what it's supposed to look like. And I think for me, yeah, when I when I have felt that from providers, which doesn't happen a ton. I was like, my God, there was a male provider was like, my God, I'm like kind of crushing on you really hard right now. So we have that whole conversation. But
Jessi Marino (39:27.384)
Right, tell me about it. Tell me about it.
Heather Shannon (39:43.192)
But yes, obviously as a therapist, understand transference. yeah, was because, and it wasn't because he was like my type or anything like at all. It was sort of like, it was just the presence. It's like, wow, to feel like so seen and understood without you needing me to be a certain way and without you projecting your feelings about it onto me. It's just, I think it's actually something we're not super used to as humans, but I hope it becomes the norm, you know?
Jessi Marino (39:46.818)
Mm-hmm.
Jessi Marino (39:54.294)
Yeah.
Jessi Marino (39:57.972)
scene. Absolutely.
Jessi Marino (40:05.464)
Hmm.
Jessi Marino (40:09.141)
No.
Yeah, so this is actually something that I have a girlfriend, she spent a lot of time in tantric spaces and her and I have done some stuff together. I teach a lot about boundaries and nonviolent communication in the content. it's just an additional component to me where I'm like, and then we take what we are feeling and experiencing into our relationships in these ways. And we've talked quite a bit about like the how...
Heather Shannon (40:18.456)
Cool.
Jessi Marino (40:40.254)
almost how disarming it is to be met with such radical presence and how much it takes to choose to bring that to the table, especially in moments that are challenging or, you know, turbulent or there's stuff going on in body or whatever there is to be able to bring the kind of like, well, I'm right here. I'm this what I've got and here I am. And I'm listening with my whole heart to not
respond but to really hear you, right? It's not about listening to know what the next thing I'm going to say is. It's to really hear you. Yeah, it's profound. Good stuff. yay.
Heather Shannon (41:17.566)
That's exactly it. that's amazing. Okay, so people are like, okay, Jesse is pretty amazing, which I would agree with that. Yeah, where can they like, you know, connect with you more and just like, yeah, what are you doing in the world? How can people work with you?
Jessi Marino (41:37.976)
So I'm doing some cool stuff. I tend towards these days, I really enjoy in-person retreats as a primary facet.
Heather Shannon (41:45.44)
cool. Love it.
Jessi Marino (41:48.104)
So we've done them all over the place. My husband and I have a property in the South Caribbean of Costa Rica. So we're developing a retreat center down there and we have an organic farm down there. So that's a location that is developing. There's going to be a festival in February that we're doing down there to fundraise for the land and all of that kind of stuff.
Heather Shannon (42:07.052)
nice.
Jessi Marino (42:08.78)
But I do, I'll do small weekend ones. We have one coming up in the UK next year, one in Panama. So I've done a bunch of international ones. I've done some local ones. I live in Connecticut, so every once in a while I'll do some small in-person events. I'm big on like, if you can come be with me body to body, like in person. I'm very big on, we get a lot out of that. But I do have some online stuff too. I just ran a four day free virtual retreat called Crave.
Heather Shannon (42:27.563)
Yeah.
Jessi Marino (42:34.988)
that was about our deepest longings and our deepest cravings and coming home to body and just accessing that clarity to the best of our ability. like, what is it that we really need and how can we nurture our way towards that? So that's all available if anybody wants the free things through there to experience that stuff. But yeah, I do some online stuff occasionally and yeah.
Heather Shannon (42:52.302)
Okay.
Heather Shannon (42:57.87)
All right, well, do you have like a, are you on social media? Do have a website? We can link to whatever it is.
Jessi Marino (43:02.156)
Yep. Yep. It's wildessence.org and my social handle is jessimagic, J-E-S-S-I and the magic has a K. That's how you know it's differentiates between. Yeah.
Heather Shannon (43:18.978)
Yeah, it's not a birthday party magician.
Jessi Marino (43:21.312)
It's not a birthday party. Well, I guess it can be if that's what you wanted. Yeah, so that's the vibe.
Heather Shannon (43:27.054)
Well, thank you so much for being here. This has been really wonderful. I think you all have hopefully gotten a lot out of it. I feel like I've gotten a great reminder out of it. And yeah, thank you everybody for listening and we'll catch you next week on Ask a Sex Therapist. Bye everybody.
Jessi Marino (43:33.93)
I hope so.
Jessi Marino (43:41.714)
Yeah. Thank you, thank you.