Alexis James [00:00:03]:

When was the last time you ran as fast as you could? I don't mean that brisk hop across the road when the oncoming car's traveling quicker than you thought. Or the mad dash you do when a wasp spots your kind of cock. I'm talking about proper knees up, head down, full throttle sprint towards the finish line. For me, it was when I was in Lisbon with some mates a few years back as the sun was setting and a few of us decided that a 100 meter dash on the beach was a good idea. My race ended about 50 meters in with a face full of sand. It was a sorry sight. But there is something exhilarating about running at full pelt. But to go as quick as your body will allow, you need to lose all fears and inhibitions.

Alexis James [00:00:44]:

Bury any anxiety that you might fall, pull a muscle, or run into something. Maybe that's why you took a few sag rest before me and my mates fancied giving it a go. Of course, when it comes to professional sprinters, they do this every day of their lives. Without the beers, obviously. They have starting blocks from which to propel themselves. Spikes to provide the necessary grip on a spongy track. Lanes to keep them on the straight and narrow. And teams of coaches and psychologists who help them to focus the mind from the moment they hear the starter's gun until they dip across the finish line.

Alexis James [00:01:18]:

They don't fear collisions or falls. Their own fear is losing. That's because they're conditioned to stretch every sinew, exert every muscle, and push every limit to hit their top speed. Imagine how thrilling that must be. Now imagine doing it all with your eyes closed. Instinctively, you'd run much slower. You might not even run at all. You'd almost certainly be off course and you'd probably fall over.

Alexis James [00:01:45]:

Hell, I did and I had both eyes open. And yet remarkably, there are hundreds of visually impaired athletes around the world who aren't able to see the finish line yet can complete a race quicker than most of us can tie our shoelaces. Some run far rather than fast. Some even try swimming or cycling. That they're able to do so is thanks to a largely undocumented partnership that I reckon deserves a bit more love and attention. And so in this episode of Unsung, I'm delving into the hidden world of Para sport guides. Welcome to Unsung. Introducing the sports stars you don't know.

Alexis James [00:02:17]:

Telling the stories you can't miss. My name is Alexis James, and this is Eyes on the Prize. The hidden world of Paralympic Guides. James Ledger is a Welsh track sprinter and British record holder. He's also registered blind.

James Ledger [00:02:35]:

I was born with a condition called, bilateral coloboma and nystagmus, which has which has left me with a vision I have today. And later on in life, I've I've had 2 detached retinas in both eyes.

Alexis James [00:02:48]:

The conditions affected sight and eye movement resulting in less than 5% vision.

James Ledger [00:02:53]:

When I was a child, if I was to draw faces, I would draw a circle, not very well, but then I would draw hair and that was it. So that was almost like a representation of what I'm trying to see. It's very much just colors, different color shading, different color contrasts. So I almost describe it as a scene without seeing. It's knowing something's there, but never really seeing what's there. So I use my cane, I use all the adaptations on my mobile phone and my laptop to help me navigate the life I live.

Alexis James [00:03:25]:

As a

Alexis James [00:03:26]:

kid in Swansea, James attended his local school and did his best to fit in.

James Ledger [00:03:30]:

For me growing up, it was very much around fitting in and not standing out for having a disability. My parents have always been amazing with me in in helping me understand that, I guess the world around me isn't necessarily visually impaired friendly. So I've got to kind of put myself out of my comfort zone. I've and I've got to put myself out there. So I went to a non disability school. I played football with with my mates. My confidence is very low. Playing football it was, you know, as soon as the ball came to me I I would just want to get rid of it as fast as possible because I didn't want to be seen for doing something wrong.

James Ledger [00:04:11]:

And having my disability blamed or not wanting to pass to me because I was the boy I couldn't see. I was very lucky I I'd had an amazing group of friends. Incredible. But because I had no friends with disabilities or I'd never met anyone who was also vision impaired so for me it was I was living this life of of being present, but it was also extremely lonely to feel like that. Obviously, I'm not, but I felt like I was the only person in the world who couldn't see. That just left me with no aspirations, no dreams, and no real direction in in life. My dad, who was really sporty, he said I get all my all my talents from him, but he played American football, rugby, athletics. He did it all.

James Ledger [00:04:53]:

So he kinda said to me he's just kinda sick of me sitting on a bench and being happy with that. And he just said, James, like, no, what do you wanna do? Because it's not this. And the first thing that came to my mind was wanting to be as fast as I could. So I went down to my local Swansea Harriers track and and from that moment on, that was me. I I became obsessed with trying to be as fast as I could be.

Alexis James [00:05:19]:

Since that moment, James has carved out an impressive career on the track, as well as holding the British records in his classification for both the 60 meters and the 100 meters. He also represented Wales at the Commonwealth Games in Australia in 2018. That's all while combining his athletics career with a job as a sports massage therapist.

James Ledger [00:05:38]:

15 years later, I'm I'm still here chasing dreams and and and hopefully, you know, more moments and and memories can be created. Don't get me wrong, like, even now and I'll always have days where I will be extremely frustrated and angry at my life and my disability. But what sport has given me, in particular athletics, it's it's given me a life that I'm able to to chase a dream.

Alexis James [00:06:04]:

Parasports are split into classifications. For visually impaired sprinters, they'll compete in one of 3 categories. T 13 athletes run-in a single lane without any additional help. Just as you'll see at the Olympic Games. T twelves are given an extra lane and may opt to use a guide runner. Those with the most severe visual impairments run the t eleven classification. Along with 2 lanes and an obligatory guide, the athlete must also be blindfolded to ensure that all runners are in a level playing field. At the beginning of his career, James ran in the t twelve classification without a guide.

Alexis James [00:06:37]:

But although the Welshman was drawn to athletics because it was an individual sport that allowed him to build his independence, in 2021, his diminishing eyesight would eventually dictate that he enlist some help.

James Ledger [00:06:48]:

As slot is into the t twelve category and as I progressively got worse, then I've moved down categories into T11. So I wear plasters and blindfolded. So completely blacked out blinds when when I'm racing. It's never nice hearing your sights getting worse, but thankfully, the amazing world we live in in Para sport, I'm still able to do the sport I love. That's where Greg comes in. He makes sure I I get to a, to b as safely as possible, but also as fast as possible as well.

Alexis James [00:07:23]:

Greg is Greg Kelly, a Scottish runner with an athletic pedigree of his own. Originally as a 100 and 200 meter sprinter, and more recently, a 400 meter runner too.

Greg Kelly [00:07:33]:

I was the fastest kid in school, and my teacher was really into athletics, so recommended I go to an athletics club. Started winning a few age group titles in Scotland. Picked for Scotland a few times even as a senior, but I was still a junior. And then I moved to Loughborough for a year to do a master's, which coincided with the year of Commonwealth Games selection. So that was sort of the aim, but, unfortunately, I didn't have as good a year as I wanted to, but still met a lot of good people, trained with a really good group.

Alexis James [00:08:05]:

That group included para athletes. And Greg's experience of training with them opened his eyes to a world he'd never looked at all that closely before.

Greg Kelly [00:08:12]:

That's something I'm really thankful about going to Loughborough. So, obviously, I was aware of James and some other para athletes, but within my group, Leon Battiste's group, I actually trained with Zach Shaw and Zach Skinner, who are t 12, t 13, so different categories, but visually impaired athletes. To think it's something that I probably wasn't aware of enough. You maybe see just the top athletes at the Paralympics every 4 years. It's not something that's broadcast that well, so I'm really thankful for that year at Loughborough.

Alexis James [00:08:41]:

After Loughborough, Greg moved to Manchester where he combined his athletics aspirations with a career in accountancy. James, meanwhile, was now living and working in Cardiff. He dreamed of qualifying for his first ever Paralympic games in Paris 2024. But with less than a year to go until the games, he found himself without a guide. He posted an ad on social media in desperate need for someone to help him on his journey. But with such specific requirements, the target audience is particularly niche.

James Ledger [00:09:12]:

One of the biggest challenges to t 11 running is is actually finding the guides. It's tough to find somebody who is fast enough because I've run 11 50 on my own. So I need a guide runner who can pretty much run a second faster because they have to be able to run within themselves controlling me to run straight, but also communicating as much as possible throughout the race. If somebody is the same speed as me and they're absolutely eyeballs out, I'm absolutely eyeballs out then, it's just that it would just be a disaster. The pool of people becomes very small, hence why it is just so hard to find the guides.

Greg Kelly [00:09:52]:

He posted social media looking for a 106, 107 sprinter, which I think is quite niche because anyone slightly faster is maybe looking at individual stuff from the 100, 200, and then anyone below that ability. If James is wanting to PB and go to the these sort of levels, then you're maybe not fast enough to do these skills of communicating, changing your stride pattern during the rep. So I think that probably was quite a niche pool that that was advertising to, which

Alexis James [00:10:22]:

grabbed my attention.

Alexis James [00:10:24]:

Greg responded to the ad. And in spite of the distance between them, they were up and running within weeks.

James Ledger [00:10:30]:

Greg came calling, which is amazing, but Greg lives in Manchester. So we do a week every month together at the moment. So I'll see it in a dream world. We would be in the same group, same coach, same city. But as it stands, we're we're making it work as as as best we can. Really grateful for Greg in joining me on my journey. Because he definitely came at my hour of need.

Greg Kelly [00:10:57]:

When you see the 106, 107 on the social media post, I'm like, that's me and there's not many other people in the UK that fall into that bracket. But I think I'm lucky as well that the opportunity came about. I'm really thankful that he took me on as well.

Alexis James [00:11:10]:

With only 9 months until qualification for the Paralympic Games, a relationship that usually takes years to hone wasn't gonna be allowed that privilege.

Greg Kelly [00:11:18]:

Done as much as I could on YouTube, but I don't think that doesn't reflect how it feels in real life. But, again, I was quite surprised at how quickly we picked it up within that sort of first week of training. We took it really steady starting from, like, jogging and and just drills. But quite quickly in that 1st week of training, we're we're running pretty fast in spikes, which I think gave us confidence for both me and James that it can be a partnership that can work. It's a

Alexis James [00:11:44]:

partnership that has a lot more going on than you might realize. During a race, the 2 are tied together by a 10 centimeter rubber tether that each of them grips in their hand. The guide can neither pull nor push the athlete who must always cross the line first. For the fastest and most efficient race, their strides should be aligned. But achieving a mirror like synchronicity can be tricky when one athlete is taller than the other.

Greg Kelly [00:12:07]:

I'm 61 and James is about He'll not thank me for this. I think he's like 5 9, 5 10, so there there is a little bit of a gap there. So I naturally am I'm shortening my stride to run with James, but my style of upright and quite lengthy, I think, is him trying to replicate me as well. It's hopefully adding to him, ensuring that his stride length is is going to as far as it can without without losing the frequency. So it's it's important not to just push a stride length for the sake of it. It's got to sort of come naturally through mobility or through force. Hopefully, that's something that, as a pairing, we'll we'll add to it. But being that 200, 400 runner, I find that, like, chopping my stride slightly has sort of came a little bit naturally.

Greg Kelly [00:12:53]:

I don't I don't feel like I'm forcing it to in order to accommodate James' stride.

Alexis James [00:12:58]:

As well as matching his partner pace for pace, Greg shouts prompts to James from the moment the gun goes. These small cues help James paint a picture of the race going on outside of his pitch black blindfold.

James Ledger [00:13:09]:

There's 4 pairs, basically. All giving cues to their athletes, all screaming, all shouting during the race. It's chaos. So I've just got to listen to the Scottish accent and try try to pick that out between all this noise. So Greg is identifying where we are in the race, what I need to be doing, but also, the most important, is to cross the line and and dip across the line. So he's got all that going on, so hence why he has to be as fast as he is to allow him to do all this and to run well as well.

Greg Kelly [00:13:42]:

So that we've got pattern, that he knows what I'm going to say at certain points. The first 30 will maybe have a that's more of a technical cue. So it's either drive or push, because we're trying to extend that acceleration period out for him. That's, like, one aspect we're trying to improve. But then once we're upright, I'll typically tell him we're at 50 or 60. So that will literally just be a shout 50 or 60. That allows him to know, right, we're halfway through the race. He he should feel himself upright running.

James Ledger [00:14:11]:

I know when I'm running fast because I can hear him be a little bit more out of breath than he normally appears.

Greg Kelly [00:14:16]:

Now I'll maybe have a shout hold, so just hold in shape. Keep coming with me if if I'm holding the pressure on him, and then I'll have a shout 10, which means 10 to go, so that he's expecting the shout for dip rather than just coming out of the blue.

James Ledger [00:14:31]:

So I know that's probably about 3 to 4 strides and then dip. So the most important thing in t 11 running is that I have to cross the line for Greg. So when Greg says dip, I I'm dipping. So

Greg Kelly [00:14:45]:

I sort of pull back astride and then allow him to dip.

James Ledger [00:14:49]:

So very small cues, just small bites that I can take in to understand what what is going on.

Greg Kelly [00:14:55]:

We'd react to the gun as normal, but from that point, pretty much communicating the whole way, trying to keep the pressure on James that he's got to go with me, but also keeping our timing together. Sometimes I look down at his feet just to ensure the timing, but something that sort of picked up the faster we're going. It's almost like riding a bike. The faster you're going, the more stable it feels. Sometimes with jogging and drills, that's actually the hardest in terms of timing. When we're we're running fast, it's it's more normal to keep the sort of arms pumping, legs coming up. In terms of timing, I I found that quite easier the faster we're going. But again, the faster we're going, then it's harder to stay composed and then communicate during the run.

Greg Kelly [00:15:36]:

I've seen myself improve in that aspect. Because I think the first race, I sort of went into panic mode. Thought this is race conditions, chasing someone else, but I think we've got the hang of things now.

Alexis James [00:15:46]:

Bear in mind that all of this is crammed into around 11 seconds. The guide runner's

James Ledger [00:15:52]:

job starts way before the race. As soon as we get to the track, Greg's guiding me around. Whereas before, if I would be on my own, I'd be really anxious about going to a new track, trying to warm up. I don't know if you've ever seen a warm up area in the athletic track, but it's like crossing the motorway. People are coming so fast at you and from all angles, and it's a scary place, and you've really gotta have your wits about you. So when I didn't have a guide, thinking back now, I feel like I was running, but, like, there's almost like alarm bells going off in my mind of, like, almost like the safety features in my body were like beep beep beep beep

Alexis James [00:16:32]:

beep. T11 sprinters are required to wear their blindfolds from the moment they enter the call room, which is where all the athletes check-in ahead of their race to ensure they're adhering to all the rules and regulations. This means that Greg is tasked with guiding James from this point onwards.

James Ledger [00:16:48]:

We'll have a 20 minute call room where we enter a little pen with everyone we're about to race. And we just stare at each other and try to psych each other out, which is I love it. When you got a load of, like, blind athletes in a room together, it's hilarious. But, that's where the guide runners get a little bit competitive. It gets fun. It gets fun.

Alexis James [00:17:09]:

There's definitely some eyeballing between the guide runners and just the competitive environment, but the other guide runners doing the same for their their partners. And, obviously, the players were all different nationalities for the international races as well. So you're seeing different cultures, different tendencies. And in that warm up area, some of them are quite loud and and we're a lot more reserved, I'd say. But, yeah, it was good to experience that. But for James, it's it's when the blind vocals on on the call room that he sort of zones in and gets gets pretty serious with the officials checking spikes, putting on his passes, then the blindfold, then navigating from the call room, which is never in the same place. Each track, sometimes it's right by the start line, sometimes it's the opposite side of the track. So then navigating James to the start line and making sure that he's comfortable and

Alexis James [00:17:59]:

ready to race. Watching Greg and James race recently, I was struck at dozens of small acts of kindness that Greg did for his race partner. From setting up his blocks to making sure that James' fingers were behind the start line. He even provided a roar of come on ledge as James' name was read over the PA. They may be small gestures, but they add up to ensure that the guide takes as many stresses and anxieties away from the visually impaired athlete. Allowing them to focus their mind entirely on running a quick race.

Greg Kelly [00:18:27]:

So I've set up James's block, set up mine. There's gotta be enough space that we can both fit in, but also close enough that, again, we're we're on the tether. It's comfortable. On race day, sometimes the officials and starters could put you under a bit of pressure to, you know, set up quite quickly or get into on your marks quite a fast pace. So then adding another athlete into that process was a little bit stressful and something that I maybe didn't think of before.

James Ledger [00:18:54]:

Didn't feel quite safe, so didn't feel quite comfortable to really fully let myself go. But now, yeah, no care in the world and that's because I've I've trusted my guide runners and there's no ant more anxiety. The Wizards is great because it allows me to warm up and be ready to race 100%. So knowing I'm on our start line, I'm ready to go. The biggest thing I found was how comfortable I felt and may sound weird because I can't see much anyway. So the plasters and the blindfold didn't make I feel like didn't make a huge difference, but what made the biggest difference is me feeling safe at the track.

Alexis James [00:19:33]:

Given the close relationship on the track, it makes sense that a bond is forged off at 2. According to James and Greg, striking up a friendship is not only a pleasant thing to do, it also helps performance.

James Ledger [00:19:44]:

We've become very good friends as well, which is such a bonus. And I couldn't be in a partnership where we go to the track, we run, we go home, we don't speak to each other. Like it is for me, it's just one word.

Greg Kelly [00:19:57]:

I think it's important just to get on with your training partners.

Alexis James [00:20:00]:

It just makes that environment much more enjoyable when

Greg Kelly [00:20:02]:

there's gonna be days that all athletes can be motivated and unmotivated. And if you've got the people that you enjoy being around to push you through these sessions, and for me and James, that's just more an exaggerated model of that because we're we're running every rep together and every race together. And then time off the track, like, we had 2 weeks in Portugal training camp and just became really good mates. I had to have a laugh. I think that's important when you're going through stressful situations and under stressful circumstances with races and, obviously, when when James is going for some really ambitious goals that you can have a laugh and and not feel that pressure constantly.

James Ledger [00:20:41]:

We're also learning to understand each other when things have gone well, but also more importantly when things have gone wrong. It's a team and and we're in it together. So it is really important to build that communication on and off the track, you know. That communication is key on track, but I think it's just as important off track as well. Building that strong relationship as a friendship will make these situations, I think, a lot easier to deal with and a lot more manageable because Greg knows me and how I will deal with it, but I will also understand how Greg will deal with it. And it's really important to understand that that's not personal. So if I don't wanna speak for 24 hours, Greg will understand, okay, he's not angry at me, but that's just how he's processing this situation and likewise with Greg and how he does that.

Greg Kelly [00:21:31]:

I think that's something that is hopefully gonna be beneficial when it comes to the crunch time in the season when maybe it goes brilliantly, you've got someone to celebrate with. But also, if it doesn't go well, you've got, like, a mate there that, know, we can we can look forward to the next one and and just get over things quite quickly.

Alexis James [00:21:48]:

Both athletes admit that their contrasting personalities complement each other perfectly. As you've probably gathered already, Greg is very much the calming yin to James' energetic yang.

James Ledger [00:21:58]:

Greg's very much a a data guy. He loves, you know, looking at the video, like, analyzing it. And so I'm an optimist, and Greg's, kinda logical guy. So my head's in the clouds, and Greg kinda pulls me back down, but it works really well.

Greg Kelly [00:22:14]:

I'm the logical accountant, so the boring one. I'm a bit of

Alexis James [00:22:18]:

a geek when it comes

Greg Kelly [00:22:19]:

to athletics as well, like stats and technical stuff. So I really thrive off of that and enjoy learning, which obviously then the confidence part comes into the communication, which maybe that's that's mainly actually the relationship. So me and Jamie becoming makes it it makes it easier for me to communicate. Whereas maybe that 1st week, I wasn't as confident.

James Ledger [00:22:38]:

Because we're on the British Athletics Futures program. We did a spotlight which, kinda analyzes your your traits and your characteristics, which is really, really helpful actually. We're completely opposite, which is great. I I mean, as a pair, that's that's what you want. We kinda fill every aspect. It really kind of highlighted to us, yeah, like, my emotions are gonna be very high and very low, very high and very low, and Greg's probably gonna be a little bit more contained. For me, it was it's it was really good because I I understood, okay, that's who Greg is. So that's how he's gonna process it.

James Ledger [00:23:10]:

So if I think Greg's not angry enough, then it's not personal. It's just how he is, but he's just not showing it like like me because I'm, like, up and down, up and down.

Alexis James [00:23:19]:

James is also adamant that their respective nationalities provide the perfect blend of Celtic grit.

James Ledger [00:23:25]:

Thankfully, we're we're both from Celtic nations, so we, of course, we get on very well. The Welsh and the Scottish.

Greg Kelly [00:23:32]:

Yeah. He loves that sort of Celtic connection. I think if I was English, it would be a different story.

James Ledger [00:23:37]:

We're at Loughborough International this weekend to race for for Wales, so really looking forward to seeing Greg in a in a Welsh kit. I'm I'm sure his father will be proud. And with hopefully doing the London Diamond League as well in the Olympic stadium. I was lucky enough do that last year. Incredible experience. 50,000 people in a Olympic Stadium was there was no feeling like it, so hoping me and Greg get the same opportunity again this year because I want to give him that experience.

Alexis James [00:24:09]:

After the athletics equivalent of speed dating, James and Greg were ready to tackle as many races as 2024 could throw at them in a bid to qualify for the Paralympic Games. Unlike the Olympics, there's no set time standard. Instead, it's based on world rankings. So the pair had a reasonable idea of what it would take to get there. And it would likely mean James improving on his tier 11 personal best of 1156. To get anywhere near that was going to take more than technical skill. It was going to take a mutual level of trust and respect for each other's abilities. Fortunately, that didn't take long to materialize.

James Ledger [00:24:42]:

The amount of trust I have to put in to Greg, not just to to run, but I'm trying to run and I have to trust Greg to allow me to run as fast as I can in a straight line in the dark. So having that relationship is is vital.

Greg Kelly [00:24:58]:

It's a elite level sport. He's he's a lot quicker than a lot of able-bodied athletes. The sort of level is quite quite scary when you think about it. And obviously, he's he's got an impairment, but then to go in the blindfold and have completely 0, and then just run balls to the walls and and just trust that, you know, we're gonna meet the finish line and not run into something. That's Yeah. That's amazing.

Alexis James [00:25:21]:

As well as their Portuguese training camp, the schedule would see them race at Grand Prix in Switzerland, Paris, and London before culminating in the English championships ahead of the Paralympics qualification cutoff in July. Whatever the outcome, James was sure that the relationship with his new guy would stand up to the test.

James Ledger [00:25:36]:

Elite sport is a roller coaster regardless. There'll always be some highs and lows. And so I think for me as an individual athlete, that's something I've always kind of not battled with, but understood that there are tough times when things aren't going your way. So I think for me and specifically me and Greg is such is such a new partnership. We're still learning them them kind of tough times. I don't know what's gonna happen in the Paralympic Games this year, but I'm touching word that it happens and my dreams or our dreams come true and what if we don't get selected, you know? That has to be a full process as well. So I imagine these will be the toughest times.

Alexis James [00:26:15]:

We'll find out how the Paralympic journey pans out for James and Greg a little later. But next up, I speak to the American tasked with guiding his country's next great paratriathlete. If it sounds daunting not being able to see while running as fast as you can, imagine what it must be like on the back of a speeding bike or in the murky depths of an inner city river. Find out after this short break. Welcome back to Unsung. American triathlete Ben Hoffman has won 11 Ironman titles. As well as the silver medal at the Ironman World Championships in 2014. For those who don't know, a full Ironman event consists of a 2.4 mile swim, then a 112 mile bike ride, and to finish it all off gently, a marathon.

Alexis James [00:26:57]:

To make us all feel even more inadequate, Ben is still going strong at 41 years old.

Ben Hoffman [00:27:03]:

Maybe the thing I'm most proud of actually is that I've been able to make a really long career out of it. Started professional racing 2007 and you know, here we are at 2024 and still have my pro license. Although, I haven't done a lot of racing for myself this season.

Alexis James [00:27:18]:

The reason Ben hasn't done much racing for himself this season is because in 2023, he took up a new role as a guide for paratriathlete, Owen Cravens.

Ben Hoffman [00:27:27]:

I've been just racing with Owen so far this season and, I guess we're about a year and a half or nearly 2 years into that relationship.

Alexis James [00:27:36]:

Owen was diagnosed with Stargardt disease when he was 10 years old. A form of macular degeneration that affects his central vision and renders him legally blind.

Ben Hoffman [00:27:45]:

He has some decent peripheral vision actually. His central vision is pretty compromised. He's hopeful for some kind of cure or at least intervention that maybe reduces its severity or the increased loss of vision, I guess. But, yeah, he is able to see some and that makes my job a little bit easier.

Alexis James [00:28:06]:

20 years younger than his guide, Owen is one of the sport's brightest prospects. And after nearly 2 decades competing in an environment that demands an insular and almost self absorbed mindset from its athletes, Ben felt it was time to give something back to the next generation.

Ben Hoffman [00:28:20]:

I fully subscribe to that belief system that human beings are social animals and that we really do rely on each other. I don't think we always live in that way. I think there is maybe, especially in the United States, sometimes this emphasis on exceptionalism and in the individual and and whatever else. But at the end of the day, I can say with complete confidence that I never would have had the career I had without all the people around me. And when I won races, I felt like it wasn't just me winning. It was the people around me that had contributed to that effort, and I especially feel that way now reflecting on it. But, yeah, we need each other is what I think. And the more that you can kind of invest in the people around you, the more that you're probably gonna get out of them too for your own individual goals.

Ben Hoffman [00:29:03]:

And it's just kind of fun too. It's just nice to do something different, and I think it's rewarding. You know? I think it feels good to contribute to somebody else's dreams and goals because I can remember what it was like to be that age. And it's a special time to be setting out on that mission, on that career that's in front of you.

Alexis James [00:29:19]:

Paratriathlon consists of a 750 meter swim, a 20 kilometer bike ride, and a 5 k run. It's half the distance of the Olympic event which is already shorter than the ludicrous Ironman miles that Ben was used to. But far from making the adaptation of Paralympic distances easy, the change in intensity and pacing took some getting used to for Ben. For a start, he's seemingly honest about his troublesome debut with Owen.

Ben Hoffman [00:29:42]:

The first race we did in Tasmania, I made the mistake and I blame the fact that I came from an Ironman background. So these races that are only 55 minutes to an hour seem awfully short to me compared to an Ironman event that's 8 hours or so. I actually did an extra lap on the bike of the 20 k course. And so we went from leading the race quite comfortably actually to falling all the way down to, like, 7th place. It was a costly error. And, you know, we had just flown halfway around the world, different hemisphere so that I could basically make the mistake, of doing an extra lap. That was, yeah, not really the introduction to the sport that I was anticipating, but I think it was also it was good for me probably just to kind of wake me up a little bit more and just open my eyes to, again, what was a different dynamic.

Alexis James [00:30:34]:

Thankfully, Ben hasn't repeated his mistake, and their progress has been on an upward trajectory since. They recovered by winning their next two races before finishing 4th in the world championships. And just as Greg and James describe a relationship that is forged as much through failure as success, Ben believes that this first setback did much the same for their burgeoning partnership.

Ben Hoffman [00:30:54]:

I still remember it pretty clearly. And my recollection is that he handled it with a lot of maturity actually. And I remember he was pretty graceful and accepting of what had happened. He was he was quite understanding. He actually came and stayed with me at our house and stayed, you know, for a week with us, and we were able to get in some really good work on the day to day basis there, work on the skills practice, just kinda get into that rhythm and routine and and understand each other's lives a little bit more too, not just on the swim, bike, and run, but also, you know, from the perspective that I'm basically 20 years as senior. So it's good just to know each other outside of just triathlon and the mission, you know, to win a medal at the Paralympic Games. I think it it just brings you closer together, I guess, when you understand each other better. You're not just guiding them for the 55 minutes to an hour that you're doing the course.

Ben Hoffman [00:31:45]:

It's everything kind of leading up to that. You're spending time with them going to the meetings, in the hotel room with them. It's a lot more than just the race day.

Alexis James [00:31:56]:

Guides in the paratriathlon must be tethered to their race partner throughout the opening swim. They then transition onto a tandem bike before tying themselves to each other again the final sprint. For a veteran triathlete like Ben, the duo dynamics are a new and unique challenge.

Ben Hoffman [00:32:11]:

I am guiding in the water. Although there's some clear kind of limitations on like, for example, I can't really be like towing him or pulling him, obviously. Right? So it's more about trying to swim as close to side by side as you can with that tether, but using it to sort of guide him. And unfortunate that because he has some peripheral vision, he can often see at least part of me in the water and kind of key off of that. So he's actually quite confident and quite good at finding that sweet spot next to me in the water. So I can mostly swim as if I was swimming on my own. And then, of course, riding a tandem bike is also a brand new challenge. I consider myself pretty competent cyclist, but it's quite different actually than riding on your own.

Ben Hoffman [00:32:56]:

That was something that I had to adjust to. But now I feel like that's actually one of our strengths.

Greg Kelly [00:33:00]:

Especially if it's

Alexis James [00:33:00]:

a technical course, we seem to do quite well.

Ben Hoffman [00:33:01]:

I'll be honest. I definitely take a lot technical course, we seem

James Ledger [00:33:02]:

to do quite well.

Alexis James [00:33:02]:

I'll be honest.

Ben Hoffman [00:33:02]:

I definitely take a lot of risk on

Alexis James [00:33:05]:

the bike. I mean, I think

Ben Hoffman [00:33:05]:

it's something that has benefited us most of the time that we're quite good on any sort of technical course. I'm definitely pushing the limits. And by no means do I believe that, you know, that we're immune to crashing just because we haven't yet. I mean, I think it's always a possibility, knock on wood. And I'm not trying to do that, of course. You know, I'm I'm trying my best not to, but I also think that, you know, in the pursuit of the fastest speeds, you're gonna have to take some risk out there.

Greg Kelly [00:33:30]:

And on the run,

Ben Hoffman [00:33:31]:

you kinda fall into some sort of rhythm that that matches each other. He's a little bit taller and, but we have a pretty similar stride length and pretty similar run cadence when we're when we're at speed like that, so that doesn't seem to be too big of a problem. It's just a matter of, like, calling things out, and then there's things that are what we call free leading zones. So if we enter into a zone that has a really sharp 180 turn or there's some kind of bumpy surface or something that we have to navigate that might be challenging for these athletes, then we may be allowed to sort of lock arms with them at that point and help them a little bit more. And so it's just about staying on top of all of that, calling it out amidst, you know, trying to do the fastest pace possible. It's not that it's less painful than an Ironman. It's just a different kind of pain. And the mindset that I carry into these races is you need to be pinned, redlined, absolutely maxed out.

Alexis James [00:34:23]:

Whereas Greg's cues to James in the 100 meter sprint need to be punchy enough to fit inside 11 seconds, Ben has more time to articulate his advice. But given the varying nature of a triathlon route, he's also got a hell of a lot more to describe.

Ben Hoffman [00:34:37]:

You're talking to yourself a lot of in a lot of cases, I think, in races. I mean, I know I do. But in this case, you're actually responsible for communicating with somebody else, and that's a big piece of it. It's probably one of the most important ones, just kinda checking in, making sure that you're really in sync, calling out everything on the course that, obviously, that they can't see so that they can make adjustments and contribute in the best way possible. I'm communicating race information too. That's another piece. Sure. I'm talking about the course, but I'm also talking about, hey.

Ben Hoffman [00:35:08]:

These guys are 10 seconds up the road. We're gaining on them right now. Let's make a big push so that we can close that gap and then pass them or whatever it is. So it's a lot about that race dynamic. A lot of it is about positive positive talk. Right? I mean, throughout the race, I'm also communicating, reminding him to fuel when we're on the bike, for example. Also, trying to do positive mental cues, like focus on regulating your breathing right now, really smooth stride, drop the shoulders, like, let's catch up to these guys. Let's stay engaged with this.

Ben Hoffman [00:35:37]:

It's all really just about communicating those positive elements too to keep the mindset as strong as possible. Because just like an Ironman racing, I feel like there's those sort of cliffs that are out there, right, that are easy to go off of. I mean, when you're doing something hard, the body is programmed for survival and is trying to tell you to stop. So it's easy to fall into that trap. And I think keeping yourself positive and focused on the goal and and believing that you can overcome the difficulty and the pain is a big piece of what I'm also trying to communicate and help him with when we're out there. It's good for me, honestly. You know, I think it's a good reminder to myself as well because I'm not immune to falling into that sort of trap too of of being negative.

Alexis James [00:36:21]:

Ben's description of his role gives him an almost mentor like quality, which is understandable given the age gap. Whereas, James and Greg give off brotherly vibes, it's easy to see how Ben and Owen's relationship might be more akin to a master and his apprentice, along with the personality conflicts that come with it.

Ben Hoffman [00:36:36]:

I think for the most part, it's certainly I would be lying if I said it wasn't challenging in its own ways. I mean, for sure, he comes from a different generation. And again, he's at a different stage in his life. I mean, I have 2 young children, and I'm kind of winding down my career. He's just kicking things off and sort of finishing up his his college student life and then launching his career in Project Podium. I think we're just in different phases that way. But at the same time, when you just boil it down to, I think, what are sort of core value sets maybe that we all create and form throughout life, there's a lot that we find common ground on that way, and I think that's probably some of the more important stuff. I think overall, probably much smoother than it could be, I guess, all things considered.

Ben Hoffman [00:37:20]:

And believe me, by no means do I think I'm the easiest personality, you know, on planet Earth to deal with. I have plenty of my own neurosis and and shortcomings as well. So it I think it's a good a good learning process with his own challenges that way, which I think ultimately will benefit both of us in our lives.

Alexis James [00:37:37]:

While the age gap is likely to expose generational differences between the athletes, it also throws up some lighter moments too. Take this example, when I asked Ben about their respective pre race routines and superstitions.

Ben Hoffman [00:37:49]:

For me, as I've aged, I need to spend a little more time kinda activating the body and kinda rolling things out. So I always go through that entire routine where I have usually a foam roller and a foam ball, and I'm doing plenty of stretching and trigger point work. And then I have bands that I use as well to sort of activate the muscles. I wouldn't call it a superstition, but Owen always brings down a little bit of this, like, spray for the goggles that we put on. And I never used that stuff before, but it works pretty well. And so I always rely on him kinda last minute, like, spray some of that in my goggles so they stay antifog. And, yeah, that's kind of our last little right before we jump in the water kind of thing.

Alexis James [00:38:30]:

You can picture the scene. We've got master Ben ironing out his ache and muscles, while apprentice Owen shows off his new tech. And there's something awesomely symbolic about an athlete with a severe visual impairment, making sure that his guide is able to see more clearly under the water. It's a unique double act, but it's one that is certainly working with qualifications secured for the Paralympics.

Ben Hoffman [00:38:50]:

There's an advertising campaign going around right now for the Paralympics. Something to the effect of, like, we're not playing games. I can say that this is, you know, it's a high level sport and, like, these people are pushing really hard, and it is a serious thing, I think, especially for a guide. The level of responsibility that you feel when you get on a tandem bike and you're going 30 miles an hour around a course with barriers all around you and and 2 people's lives are on the line is certainly something that I had never experienced before, and I'm still kinda getting my head around a little bit. You know? So it's definitely a new a new challenge and a new experience. My big takeaway from being around all these Paralympic athletes because right now, I'm in a training camp in Vichy, France, and we're getting ready to head up to the Paris Olympic Village. I'm around a lot of other triathletes right now in different classes, and I have to say that, like, every day I show up at the pool, I'm just inspired. It's really cool.

Ben Hoffman [00:39:46]:

Like, these are amazing people, independent of whatever disability they're operating with. Just to see them, like, show up and do the work and and be at the level they are, it just gets me fired up, and it makes me, I think, get the most out of myself. I wish I'd actually done a little bit of it earlier on in my career because I think it could have been beneficial for my own training and racing to have that perspective.

Alexis James [00:40:08]:

The very best of luck to Ben and Owen in Paris. After the break, we'll return to the story of James and Greg and discover how they faired on their own Paralympic quest. Welcome back to Unsung. When I last spoke to James Ledger and his guide Greg Kelly, they were gearing up for the busiest summer of their athletics career in an effort to qualify for the Paralympic games in Paris. And it's fair to say they flew out the blocks. In Coventry, they lined up as part of a team JB relay and took the win alongside some big names.

James Ledger [00:40:39]:

We passed to Johnny Peacock. You know, Johnny's an icon, a legend of British power sports. So that was really cool. Greg has the job of obviously guiding me around the bends, shouting for Johnny's mark, and and then passing the baton theoretically over as well. So again, very tough job. I don't envy him, but he does a very good job at it. So it's a great experience and really and really good fun.

Alexis James [00:41:05]:

Then there was the Loughborough international event, where James was team captain for Wales, grinning as he handed his Scottish guide a shirt with a red dragon on it. What's more, Greg was also representing Scotland in the 400 meter relay. It's fair to say his dual nationality role led to some stick that weekend.

James Ledger [00:41:20]:

Greg had a bit of a busy day. He was, obviously, running with me for the 100 meters, and he was then part of the Scottish 4 by 4. So he had a quick costume change halfway through the day, which was brilliant. He had a bit of the stick from the Welsh lot because I was honored to to be team captain for the Welsh team, which was which was an amazing honor. So Greg was wearing the red of Wales for a long period of time, and then when everyone saw him in the blue of Scotland, everyone was given a bit of bit of a jiff.

Alexis James [00:41:48]:

I stayed with the Welsh team where they've been before, so he was making a speech, and he gave a shout out. He said, the Welsh sort of create a brilliant environment, like, we've even got a Scotsman that would rather be in the Welsh team. Got a few slag ins from both sides that I was racing for Wales at first, and then we'd probably change our interest to all the best. And and then going to the Scotland team manager, I mean, like, if I still have a Welsh wagon you've got on, forget that I'm not swapped for it.

Alexis James [00:42:13]:

And then a few weeks later in Switzerland, the clearest sign yet that they were making serious progress. James run a personal best of 1155, setting a new national record in the process.

James Ledger [00:42:24]:

It was one of my favorite tracks in the world. There's not much around it in terms of a stand or anything like that, but it's a super fast track. There's a beautiful lake and mountains in the background, but it's very much a place just to run fast.

Alexis James [00:42:36]:

The trajectory was just going up and up. With some of our best races being in Switzerland and Paris, great grand prix there, which for me is a fantastic experience sort of a level that I I have not competed at. So it was great to be given that opportunity in in Switzerland where we we got a p b for James. So best record.

Alexis James [00:42:54]:

Despite setting a new p b, they both knew they could go faster.

James Ledger [00:42:59]:

It wasn't our cleanest race, to be honest. It was there was elements there where we know we need to work on, mostly around that kind of second half of that race.

Alexis James [00:43:08]:

I think that I've just shown is that as a quite a stretched pair, only working with each other for a few months before that, that we were really picking things up because we were only gonna get faster.

Alexis James [00:43:19]:

And then with only weeks to go before the Paralympics qualification cut off and in the sort of form that could see them on the plane at Paris, they headed to their next race in London full of hope.

James Ledger [00:43:29]:

We just did British champs which went really well. So we raced there on the Saturday and then on the Tuesday we headed down to London for a meet down there.

Alexis James [00:43:38]:

And then, Leger. James Leger there with his guide runner, the 30 year old, James Leger for, as I said, the David Weir Para Academy. He's a silver medalist at the World Para Grand Prix in Paris earlier on this summer.

Alexis James [00:43:53]:

Away and, racing. Quick start in lane 1 by James Ledger. The race went with a ban, and both James and Greg motored through the first 60 meters, looking well set to record yet another PB.

Alexis James [00:44:05]:

I felt we we were winning the race by, I'd say, at least a couple of meters. And then disaster struck. With 20 meters to go, I sort of just felt a yank on the tether, which, because I I'm sorta dialed in going forward as well, wasn't entirely sure what it was. Like, if it was a misstep or maybe a lack of tidying from us.

James Ledger [00:44:25]:

Almost like a boom, extremely tight, and then a and then a pain, instant pain. Unfortunately, I just I maybe was moving too fast through the body or the too fast for the body wanted to go, and 60 meters into the race, yeah, hamstring went.

Alexis James [00:44:43]:

All of a sudden, James and Greg were forced into a move they'd never done before. And given the athletic insistence on positive vibes only, had never wanted to practice either. The emergency brake.

James Ledger [00:44:54]:

I was pulling back on the tether and and verbalizing, to stop stop. But, yeah, tough. Tough to do blindfolded and and tied to somebody. I can't just kind of eject myself out of the tether because I'm kind of led on the track and say we're in the leads and I eject because I've got an injury. So, I mean, eject by letting go of the tether. If I veer into the next lane next to me and somebody's behind me, then that could be a absolute disaster as well. So it's yeah. I think I think it's just recognizing pretty soon and and having for Greg really, his communication skills are so good that him hearing my cues or he can hear my communication and instantly knowing what to do.

Alexis James [00:45:37]:

The breaks did come on and I I felt that all the other athletes sort of come up to us would tend to go. That's when I knew something went another tricky, aspect of it that if you're running individually, you could sort of slam on the brakes and slow down at your own pace. But with my momentum, I probably carried him through the pain a little bit towards the finish. So, hopefully, that that's not done additional damage than than what was the injury. Because that or in that race, I think, we were really pushing that sort of over speed, trying to utilize me and not allowing James to slow down.

James Ledger [00:46:09]:

It was tough. And even in that race, we kinda felt that was the one. We were we're moving really well up until 60. And I guess a what if moment, what if we finished that race, and what could have been?

Alexis James [00:46:23]:

We ran 11:70 in that race with flying on the brakes the last 20. So I I do think there was something far higher. So, obviously, that that's pretty good in itself to to see the time and say that even if we ran not only through the race, through the line, there's a chance we could have p b there. It was about our shock. Didn't really know what happened until we finished the line with MJ and was on the 4 and was in a bad pain. I think initially we thought it was just sort of cramped because of how late it was in the evening, the temperature had dropped, which sometimes can happen quite regularly for athletes.

Alexis James [00:46:58]:

Despite their desperate hopes, it wasn't cram nor was it even a minor injury.

James Ledger [00:47:03]:

Had an MRI very soon after, which kinda indicated it was a a 4 c, which is the full tendon tear of the hamstring, which is, yeah, not ideal.

Alexis James [00:47:15]:

Their season was over along with their Paralympic dream.

James Ledger [00:47:19]:

Our 1st month was was was really tough, really kind of frustrated and and angry and and thinking about what could have been this season. We were definitely as close as I've ever been to making a Paralympic games. And, you know, that that that hurts.

Alexis James [00:47:34]:

James was crushed. And so too, of course, was Greg. But in the clearest sign yet that being a guide is about more than just running fast, his first thought was to park his own disappointment in order to console his mate.

Alexis James [00:47:47]:

I felt like my role that day was trying not allow James to sort of get in that negative mindset. We'll wait and see what Fazio will say. Obviously, my commitment, I've been very vocal with sort of my trading partners, my family friends who support this journey as as much as James' support network as well, and they really wanted success for us as a peer. So, obviously, we need to process that a bit. We're we're not gonna have the opportunity to go to Paris. And so, obviously, once once we get amused, that's not gonna happen. That's where I think it did kick in for me. But, yeah, that that initial instinct was that that's good news and it was to make it.

James Ledger [00:48:23]:

He feels what I feel now theoretically, and I he was gutted. I think he was he was a great support in just me venting, to be honest. He he didn't necessarily have to say anything, but I just knew somebody was there and somebody fully understood what what I was going through. As an individual sport, which we're kinda not, but it's hard because you feel like you're on you're on your own when you have an injury. When you're doing the rehab, it's just you sitting on a bike or it's just you doing the hamstring exercises while everyone else is doing their block starts and and things like that. But it's just been great to have somebody on the end of the phone to if I'm having a bit of a rubbish day, I can just call, like, call Greg. I have an extra person to to vent to, basically. So I'm I'm very lucky, you know, my partner's amazing and I'm a my family, but I've also got Greg now to add to that as well.

Alexis James [00:49:13]:

It was a crushing way to end the season, and especially galling for the pair given that when we first spoke in May, Greg said this about their preparation.

Greg Kelly [00:49:21]:

You're managing the injuries. Touch wood, we've not had anything major between the both of us, but it's hard enough for an athlete to go through a full season injury free. Never mind ensuring that both of us have that. So hopefully our bodies get through this summer injury free and in good shape, but that's really a major part that's hard to manage.

Alexis James [00:49:40]:

As disappointed as he must have been, that sort of foresight is further proof that Greg really is an athletics geek. Although they don't expect to race together again until October, the pair have kept in constant touch. And it's also allowed their roles to flip somewhat as James finds himself supporting Greg in his 400 meter events.

James Ledger [00:49:57]:

We talk as friends anyway on a daily basis. The Olympics have just been on. We're putting our predictions in for the for the 100 meter finals. The partnership with Greg goes beyond him guiding me on the track. It's further than that, and I've been there in spirit for his races. You know, he's he's carried on racing himself. He's just competed in the Scottish championships this weekend, so I was paying very close attention to to the results and being his hype man when I can. He's got his own aspirations and and goals to us to achieve this year as well.

James Ledger [00:50:30]:

So that's where my role has has changed slightly and I'm actually heading up to Manchester this weekend because his season's over now. So we're gonna have a bit of a foodie weekend, so he's gonna take me around Manchester

Alexis James [00:50:44]:

training and just completely forget about it and enjoy each other as mates instead of maybe being dead or or trying to be wired onto that life. It's before we commit to sort of weather training again.

Alexis James [00:50:56]:

Despite the pain of not being there, they're both planning on tuning into the Paralympics to cheer on their teammates.

James Ledger [00:51:02]:

I think definitely it's gonna be raw. I almost it's almost like grief somewhat, you know. It's it's something that was taken away through through injury. So it has been tough, and I've been working with my psychologist Louise Jones from Welsh athletics which which has been really, really good. It's really helped me through that really difficult time. But, yeah, I will be watching because as you know I've got a lot of friends who are going, and they're people I really wanna support and see do well, so I will be tuning in. But, yeah, for sure, it'd be also tough to watch as well, but I've got so many good friends that I I wanna see succeed and and enjoy every moment, so I wanna be there for them as well.

Alexis James [00:51:38]:

Yeah. I I think I'll watch it, and keep an eye out for the results. Some of the people with the British athletes that I know definitely support them and lots to see out there doing it. And I think I'll try not to get too engrossed into TLF in races, but I think even just for all of these things, because I think when we look at the results, I'm sure we'll look at it, mention that we should have been in the mix, which obviously can be a negative thought at the moment. I think if you take Ryan for a positive that if there's a world champs next year or Colin Willis in 2 years, there's no reason why we first can't qualify and then also be competitive and push for medals.

Alexis James [00:52:13]:

Although watching the games may reopen old wounds, when I spoke to them, it was clear they'd progressed through the various stages of grief and were bullish about the future. And given what they've achieved together in such a short time frame, they've every right to be.

James Ledger [00:52:26]:

We can resume and, build from where we left off because we left off from a good place. 6 months working together and running, you know, a national record at 1155, it bodes well for the future. And I'm sticking around for another 4 years, so LA is definitely in the plan. So and potentially a Commonwealth Games in in 2 years as well.

Alexis James [00:52:49]:

It might surprise some to learn that London 2012 was the 1st Paralympics that awarded medals to guides. Before then, only the para athletes were welcome on the podium. The shift in recognition was largely driven by the athletes themselves. Who felt it was only right to recognize not only the support, but also the years of training and graft that has gone into each performance. Yet there is still a shortage of guides like Greg and Ben. And James believes it's vital that athletes like him get the message out there.

James Ledger [00:53:14]:

I'll always aim to promote guide runners because I think they're they're incredible people. You know, they allow people like myself to follow their dreams. So I think they should be really championed as very much the unsung heroes of my sport and really glad in more recent years that they're getting the credit they deserve. There was a time where guide runners wouldn't get a medal, you know, at the Paralympic Games. I understand he's the athlete, but without the guide, there's no athlete. So now they get medals, they also get funding. So if me and Greg were able to get British Athletics funding, he gets it as well. He gets everything I get.

James Ledger [00:53:55]:

And it makes me more motivated to give him that as well. I wanna give him something back for what he's giving me. That's why for me, that relationship between myself and my guide is is so important.

Alexis James [00:54:09]:

Greg wonders if some athletes are put off from guiding at the elite level because they see it as potentially interfering with their own individual ambitions. But in a year where he's once again represented his country, that's Scotland, not Wales, in the 400 meters, he maintains that it's possible to benefit from doing both.

Greg Kelly [00:54:25]:

Maybe it's the the thought that you're putting your individual competitions aside to do the guided running, but from my experience, that's not really been the case. Like the coaching elements, technical aspects that I've learned, I can really relate to my own individual running. It's something that I think my individual performances are still gonna grow. Whilst doing the guide running, I don't think that I'm putting that completely to the side in order to do this for James. That was an important aspect for James, that he sold to me that he doesn't want me to stop competing and striving for my individual aspirations, but it's something that can develop both of us. So hopefully, that's something that maybe breaks the stereotype that if you're a guide runner, you're only a guide runner. That's something that I'd like to share with other athletes. Then if there's other t 11 runners coming into the sport, then they're not short of potential guide runners.

Alexis James [00:55:18]:

James won't have any problems keeping himself busy while he recovers from his injury. As well as being a sports massage therapist, he works as the visually impaired officer for Disability Sport Wheels. And he also hosts the Disability Sport Wheels podcast, which recently featured the Paralympic legend that is Tani Gray Thompson. Do check it out. But before you go, here's a last word from James. Appealing firstly to potential para guides and then a message to those who may be able to relate more closely to this inspirational Welshman.

James Ledger [00:55:44]:

See it as an opportunity for yourself to enter really incredibly inspiring worlds. Whether you maybe didn't reach your potential or didn't quite reach your dreams in in your sports, you can do that for somebody else. But you can do it together and don't see it as you're just helping somebody out. You're doing it together. It's it's a team thing. But also, you know, to to anyone who's visually impaired is is just give something a go. I think, no, we all have a purpose in life. We just have to find what that is.

James Ledger [00:56:17]:

Whether that's sports, whether that's music, science, reading, whatever it is, we just have to find it. And there will be times where it will be tough, but just keep pushing through. And I think you'll eventually find your way and find your passion in life.

Alexis James [00:56:34]:

My thanks to James and Greg for taking the time to speak to me during their hectic summer. And especially for catching up with me after James's injury. When talking to me about it was probably the last thing they wanted to do. The very best of luck to the pair of them when they race together again later this year. If you think you might be interested in becoming a guide for para athletes at any level, not just the elite, do check out the links in our show notes where you can register your interest. Thanks for listening to Unsung. It was written and narrated by me, Alexis James, and produced by Matt Cheney. Artwork by Matt Walker.

Alexis James [00:57:07]:

And the executive producer is Sam Barrick. Unsung is an off field production, bringing you the untold and unsung in audio, digital, and print. To enjoy more of our storytelling, head to off dashfield.net. Catch you next time on Unsung.