WEBVTT

00:00:01.040 --> 00:00:16.370

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: If you've ever felt like, no matter how much you achieve, it's still never enough, you are not alone. Perfectionism might look like success on the outside, but inside it can feel like pressure, self-doubt, and the inner critic that never rests.

00:00:16.580 --> 00:00:24.649

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Hi, and welcome to the UWorld Order Showcase Podcast, where we feature life, health, transformational coaches and spiritual entrepreneurs who are stepping up

00:00:24.650 --> 00:00:36.969

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: be the change they seek in the world. I'm your host, Jill Hart, the Coach's Alchemist, on a mission to help coaches and entrepreneurs amplify their voice, monetize their mission, and get visible, leveraging podcasts and Substack.

00:00:36.970 --> 00:00:55.009

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: If you are ready to start attracting premium clients without chasing algorithms or hunting people down like a banshee on a mission, head over to Coachesalchemist.com and schedule your free client acquisition audit. It's the first step to building a business where your clients seek you out instead of you chasing them down.

00:00:55.010 --> 00:01:10.180

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Today, we are chatting with Dr. Tara Kuzno. Tara is the author, clinical psychologist, meditation teacher, and perfectionism coach with over 20 years of experience helping high achievers unlock their potential with ease and confidence.

00:01:10.200 --> 00:01:28.740

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: She's the author of The Perfectionist Dilemma, Learn the Art of Self-Compassion and Become a Happy Achiever, and serves as a staff psychologist at Harvard University's Counseling and Mental Health Services. Through her Evolve method, Tara guides individuals and organizations to cultivate greater self-worth

00:01:28.740 --> 00:01:35.830

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: authentic leadership, and land a life of greater balance and joy. Welcome to the show, Tara. It's great to have you with us today.

00:01:35.830 --> 00:01:37.919

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Thanks, Jill. Happy to be here.

00:01:38.620 --> 00:01:39.590

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Alright.

00:01:40.050 --> 00:01:43.090

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: We're trying something new, just warning everybody.

00:01:44.820 --> 00:01:56.839

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: A lot of our listeners have tried everything when it comes to dealing with perfectionism. What's one piece of advice that you followed that you thought would help, but it really didn't?

00:01:58.600 --> 00:02:01.520

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Yeah, that's a great question.

00:02:01.750 --> 00:02:06.109

Tara Cousineau, PhD: there's probably several answers, but I think the simple one for me is…

00:02:06.660 --> 00:02:25.459

Tara Cousineau, PhD: you know, I would follow a lot of that personal development advice around shifting your mindset from the scarcity mindset to the abundance mindset, and then if you can just keep sort of redirecting your attention to abundance and imagining the world that you want and the feelings that you want to have, that you can kind of, like, just grow yourself into that.

00:02:25.460 --> 00:02:29.719

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And I just feel like… part of me feels like that's such BS.

00:02:31.130 --> 00:02:39.660

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Because it's still so cognitive, it still requires you to use your, sort of, thinking brain and actually.

00:02:40.110 --> 00:02:47.019

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Perfectionism, or any kind of anxiety, or worry or concerns are not good enough is… actually resides so much in the body.

00:02:47.310 --> 00:02:58.759

Tara Cousineau, PhD: So, that's the part that I'm just like, oh, yeah, you can get tired of that pretty quickly, and you can get really… it's self-defeating after a while, too, to kind of say, oh yeah, I just gotta have that abundant mindset, and my life will be perfect.

00:02:59.590 --> 00:03:09.220

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And we perfectionist people who are over here going, am I doing it right? Maybe I need to… I must not be doing it right, because I'm not seeing the results. But…

00:03:09.480 --> 00:03:12.579

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But they said, that's what we gotta do, right?

00:03:12.580 --> 00:03:20.329

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Exactly. Oh, I'm not doing it good enough, I should be doing it this instead, I must be missing something. Maybe it's just something flawed in me that I just don't get it, you know?

00:03:20.860 --> 00:03:36.869

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, it's the maybe something's flawed in me piece, that it's just, like, perfectionists that… or high achievers, they might not even be perfectionists, and that could be part of their problem, too, is they're, like, they don't think that they're very perfectionist at what they're doing, and so they're like.

00:03:37.930 --> 00:03:39.289

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Must be screwing this up.

00:03:39.970 --> 00:03:47.659

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Yeah, well, perfectionism's on a spectrum. Even if you don't necessarily self-identify as a perfectionist, some of your behaviors might be perfectionistic.

00:03:48.000 --> 00:03:57.300

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah. So, when that didn't work, what did you do differently, and what was the shift that actually made the difference for you?

00:03:57.940 --> 00:04:17.859

Tara Cousineau, PhD: You know, it's really interesting for me, you know, I'm a clinical psychologist, I, you know, have this PhD, everything in my field is very much about evidence-based, right? And if you're not doing the evidence-based work, well, then you're not actually doing things right, and people aren't going to work with you, because you're not doing it evidence-based. What I actually have found.

00:04:17.950 --> 00:04:29.739

Tara Cousineau, PhD: that the thing that works is not necessarily in the foreground of evidence-based work, but there's evidence for it, and I would really say that that's energy psychology and energy medicine.

00:04:29.920 --> 00:04:41.870

Tara Cousineau, PhD: So, when I realized that, well, I can try to do all of these mental gymnastics, and I'm still feeling this sort of disease of not good enough, I really actually needed to do something different. And…

00:04:42.120 --> 00:04:47.159

Tara Cousineau, PhD: The wake-up call was actually… my somatic symptoms was really tense.

00:04:47.160 --> 00:05:03.999

Tara Cousineau, PhD: jaw, you know, getting sort of this trigeminal neuralgia, I thought, you know, what's going on? My body was telling me things aren't right. And so, I actually had to kind of completely flip the script and start working with alternative and complementary approaches to actually address

00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:13.909

Tara Cousineau, PhD: this sort of… almost like it's a compulsion. It's really driven by anxiety and fear, and I had to address it from, really, that energetic standpoint.

00:05:14.040 --> 00:05:20.290

Tara Cousineau, PhD: First, and… So that's an interesting sell to the people who come to me.

00:05:20.460 --> 00:05:22.549

Tara Cousineau, PhD: It's to say, we're gonna do some energy work.

00:05:23.430 --> 00:05:34.959

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I'm not sure that it's just, like, that you have psychologists by your name, and… and doctor, which implies science, and…

00:05:34.960 --> 00:05:48.619

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And then to start wandering into what most people consider the woo. Right. It's just like… but Wu is, like, the cutting edge of science right now. They're finding so much has to do with energy, and…

00:05:48.850 --> 00:05:52.269

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And it overcomes a lot of the things that we…

00:05:52.920 --> 00:06:01.190

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: we think about in the world in terms of our brain wants everything to be 3D and very solid, and we're finding that it's just not.

00:06:01.820 --> 00:06:07.390

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Listen, 25, 30 years ago, when I was just starting out as a psychologist, mindfulness was considered woo.

00:06:07.790 --> 00:06:24.520

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Like, people who were, like, sitting in meditation, or using meditation and medicine, I mean, that was really a stretch, and people… I remember my, you know, advisor saying, you know, you're a little aloof, this is a little out in left field here, and I'm thinking, no, did you just watch the Bill Moyers special?

00:06:24.520 --> 00:06:34.919

Tara Cousineau, PhD: With Jon Cabot-Zinn, working with the patients who feel like they have no other options in their life to alleviate their pain are in the basement of that hospital and they're doing mindfulness.

00:06:34.990 --> 00:06:41.959

Tara Cousineau, PhD: You know, I mean, that was the beginning of the evidence, and now here we are, literally 30 years later, and there are

00:06:42.420 --> 00:07:02.410

Tara Cousineau, PhD: meta-analyses and randomized controlled trials on the benefits of meditation on your brain, the way that your brain is structured, the nervous system, your body. So I feel like, in a way, energy medicine, energy psychology is kind of at that inflection point, where people are now open to it, there's enough studies out there that shows that

00:07:02.520 --> 00:07:08.350

Tara Cousineau, PhD: You know, healing touch, emotional freedom technique, actually benefit pretty significant

00:07:08.360 --> 00:07:25.729

Tara Cousineau, PhD: you know, symptoms, like anxiety, PTSD, depression, you know, weight concerns, body image, you name it. So, I have a lot of hope, you know, I might be woo now, but I really do feel that in the next decade or so, the field is just gonna open up and people…

00:07:25.730 --> 00:07:30.449

Tara Cousineau, PhD: People are already coming from it. They're coming for it, you know, they're looking for this kind of thing.

00:07:31.150 --> 00:07:35.320

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: They're just struggling so much with the whole…

00:07:35.720 --> 00:07:42.240

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You know, we call it perfectionism, but it's really this desire to feel enough.

00:07:42.450 --> 00:07:43.280

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: like…

00:07:43.660 --> 00:07:51.840

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You don't have to be everything, everywhere, and how to, like, make it work in your body, because you can tell yourself.

00:07:52.010 --> 00:07:57.129

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I mean, I tell myself lots of affirmations and things, and the rest of my body is like.

00:07:57.660 --> 00:08:02.359

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, right. Right. My stomach's still tight, and…

00:08:02.640 --> 00:08:09.600

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Right, so I… so when I see a perfectionist, you know, they come into my office, and they might self-identify as a perfectionist,

00:08:09.820 --> 00:08:20.119

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And really, what I see is, like, energetically, they're all sort of neck up. I just say, oh, my perfectionists, they're all neck up, you know? There's, like, no connection to below the neck, and you can see…

00:08:20.120 --> 00:08:20.550

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: floaters.

00:08:20.550 --> 00:08:25.149

Tara Cousineau, PhD: stance, and the way they sit down, and the way they sort of interact with the interpersonal cues.

00:08:25.280 --> 00:08:37.119

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And, to get them to start even being curious or aware of how they're feeling, and what are the sensations in their body, feels really foreign.

00:08:38.059 --> 00:08:55.979

Tara Cousineau, PhD: To a lot of people. It just is, like, out of whack, but then you say, you know, then you have a conversation with them, and they're struggling with insomnia, they have IBS, they've got migraines, the, you know, hives, like, the list goes on and on, and you're like, I wonder, you know, could these be signs and symptoms?

00:08:56.400 --> 00:09:11.969

Tara Cousineau, PhD: of this sort of underlying anxiety, and to your point, Jill, what you said before, is that everybody has this basic human desire for love and belonging. I mean, that is… that is just the essential, you know, of our basic innocent human needs.

00:09:12.200 --> 00:09:28.730

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And perfectionism is one way that we learn over time to try to get that, that love and belonging. Try to avoid the fear and the rejection, and we do it by trying to do everything perfectly, or everything right, or get all these achievements.

00:09:28.730 --> 00:09:34.400

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And that then becomes a pattern, right? It becomes this mind-body pattern, in life.

00:09:34.640 --> 00:09:38.140

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And that's really exhausting, essentially.

00:09:40.100 --> 00:09:40.640

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah.

00:09:40.950 --> 00:09:41.960

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It is.

00:09:42.340 --> 00:09:46.179

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And our bodies talk to us all the time. Like, I have this…

00:09:46.460 --> 00:09:49.030

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Crazy story about my foot, and I…

00:09:49.340 --> 00:09:55.549

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I woke up one day with a ganglion cyst on my… on the side of my foot. It looked like I had a second ankle.

00:09:55.550 --> 00:09:58.130

Tara Cousineau, PhD: It doesn't hurt or anything, I mean, it's not like…

00:09:58.190 --> 00:10:02.869

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: it's interfering in my life, particularly. I just found it…

00:10:02.990 --> 00:10:15.439

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: interesting that as I'm getting ready to shift a whole bunch of stuff in my life and business, that the piece… the foundational piece of my body has also changed.

00:10:16.150 --> 00:10:16.810

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Yes!

00:10:16.810 --> 00:10:20.519

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Oh, hello? We're still here!

00:10:22.160 --> 00:10:26.710

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Yeah, and there… maybe there's some sort of sign that, like, listen, you need a little bit more support.

00:10:26.710 --> 00:10:27.640

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Right?

00:10:28.010 --> 00:10:45.530

Tara Cousineau, PhD: In some sort of way. This is actually really why I love, you know, energy medicine, and it was actually, when I think about, like, when did, you know, you asked me this question, like, what… where was the shift? And it really happened during COVID, when we had to very rapidly, you know, doing our in-person work.

00:10:45.550 --> 00:10:57.989

Tara Cousineau, PhD: just shifted to online work, and people were literally flatlined. Like, nervous system, you know, they weren't having that social connection, they weren't in their familiar environments. All of a sudden, the world felt so uncertain and unsafe.

00:10:58.290 --> 00:11:02.560

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And people were just overwhelmed. And I can tell you right now that talk therapy did nothing.

00:11:02.680 --> 00:11:06.370

Tara Cousineau, PhD: It's like, we could talk about this all day long, it's not going to actually make a change.

00:11:06.420 --> 00:11:11.939

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And I went, and I had always wanted to do this, but I was like, okay, well, now's actually a good time.

00:11:11.940 --> 00:11:29.940

Tara Cousineau, PhD: is just to get some more training myself in energy medicine, and so I went and I learned, you know, eating energy medicine, I went to the energy psychologist and learned emotional freedom technique. I had so much fun doing it, but really the evidence was when I started sharing this woo stuff.

00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:31.669

Tara Cousineau, PhD: with my clients.

00:11:31.790 --> 00:11:41.079

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And, you know, I know this sounds a little kind of, like, weird, but I just want you to try it. Let's do it together. Are you game? Like, kind of make it fun and inviting.

00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:48.460

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And I'll never forget, working with a former Olympian, like, gold medal Olympian.

00:11:48.630 --> 00:11:59.549

Tara Cousineau, PhD: who was just really experiencing so much self-doubt, and you're thinking, oh my god, really? And this is, like, 20, 30 years later, right? And still in life, it's kind of carrying this, I'm not good enough, I have to keep going.

00:11:59.810 --> 00:12:04.880

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And finally, I was just like, will you just please Try the tapping with me.

00:12:05.170 --> 00:12:17.270

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And do it at home, and here's an app, and here's a video link, you don't need me to be present, you can follow along with somebody else. And then I got this email, and all it had was a subject line, tapping, it works.

00:12:17.740 --> 00:12:22.619

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And really, what was happening was, is that she was modulating and regulating her nervous system.

00:12:23.190 --> 00:12:32.170

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Right? She could try all the positive affirmations in the world, but it wasn't happening because her nervous system was stuck, like, the energy was stuck. And…

00:12:32.170 --> 00:12:47.459

Tara Cousineau, PhD: One way to do that, tapping is one way, there are other ways to do it, but it really actually helped kind of reduce that amygdala response so that she could connect to the prefrontal cortex in her brain and take in the information she knew intellectually would help, but wasn't sticking before.

00:12:48.810 --> 00:12:54.749

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: When I first started tapping, I thought it was the silliest thing ever, but it…

00:12:55.970 --> 00:13:02.320

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I thought you had to have somebody talking to you the whole time you did it, or you had to make up these things.

00:13:02.510 --> 00:13:20.060

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Which, maybe, in terms of this… this person, she was like, I need… I need to have, like, all the right things before we can do it, so it can't possibly work, because I'm not having you sitting here with me and helping me do it.

00:13:20.190 --> 00:13:34.230

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: or I'm gonna have to go find something on YouTube, but I found out… I found out later that it really doesn't even need to have somebody tell you, it's just the act of tapping.

00:13:34.230 --> 00:13:37.230

Tara Cousineau, PhD: That is what calms your nervous system down.

00:13:37.620 --> 00:13:40.469

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: In fact, I think Brad Yates is the one that told me that.

00:13:40.470 --> 00:13:46.400

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Yeah, and there's a great researcher in Australia, Peter Stapleton, she also wrote a book called The Science of Tapping.

00:13:46.750 --> 00:13:51.549

Tara Cousineau, PhD: There's a study that actually shows that you could actually do the tapping without the words.

00:13:51.550 --> 00:13:56.740

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Without the setup statement, without the acceptance statement, that just the tapping in and of itself.

00:13:56.740 --> 00:14:00.079

Tara Cousineau, PhD: is beneficial. I find that fascinating.

00:14:00.090 --> 00:14:14.179

Tara Cousineau, PhD: What I find the words helpful for, because there's another area in my field that's also having its day, I would say, and that's internal family systems, and so a lot more people are aware of this particular sort of method or approach.

100

00:14:14.180 --> 00:14:22.099

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Where you're really starting to identify the different parts, right? You can call them patterns, you can call them algorithms, you can call them schemas or scripts.

101

00:14:22.130 --> 00:14:31.620

Tara Cousineau, PhD: But there are parts, I like to use the word parts, you can use tapping with the part of you. Oh, the part of me that feels like I will never be good enough.

102

00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:38.609

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And I'm freaking out right now. I accept how I feel in this moment. I mean, you can just tap on the…

103

00:14:38.870 --> 00:14:58.649

Tara Cousineau, PhD: you know, kind of speak for the part, in a way, through tapping, and so there's so many blends that you can do nowadays, but honestly, simple yoga practices, I cannot tell you how many times I will have a perfectionist come in, I can tell that they're totally uptight, they… their, sort of, their chest cavity is like armor. They can't even take

104

00:14:58.750 --> 00:15:10.119

Tara Cousineau, PhD: a luxurious deep breath, because their diaphragm is basically locked, and just starting to kind of, like, massage, you know, around this diaphragm area, or I tell them, your homework is to

105

00:15:10.210 --> 00:15:23.569

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Put your legs up the wall. You know, get your butt on the floor and your legs up the wall. That way, you'll have blood running to your body, you'll be getting the energy you need, and the earth and the ground is supporting you! Your whole body cavity can relax.

106

00:15:23.680 --> 00:15:38.169

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And when they can… when they start to practice these things that might kind of seem silly, and I'm like, do it with your roommate or your kids at home. Just get to a wall and put your legs up it, put your hands on your belly and your heart, and start breathing for a few minutes. See what happens.

107

00:15:38.210 --> 00:15:54.500

Tara Cousineau, PhD: So, there's very simple somatic exercises that actually start to shift your energy, and if your energy's kind of reversed, it will actually get it flowing in the right direction, and then all of a sudden you can start thinking clearly. So, I would say that that's sort of where I've… I've headed, and

108

00:15:54.890 --> 00:15:59.130

Tara Cousineau, PhD: I don't think, you know, I would necessarily say this at my day job.

109

00:16:01.190 --> 00:16:15.100

Tara Cousineau, PhD: but the people who work with me in private practice. I will actually do, like, the somatic exercises or tapping, with students, but I'm speaking for myself right now, not speaking for my work at Harvard University, which is actually very traditional for the most part, but…

110

00:16:15.170 --> 00:16:23.380

Tara Cousineau, PhD: I do find that that was actually what made the shift for me, personally, and I feel like it makes the shift for a lot of people, is that they get out of their heads.

111

00:16:24.760 --> 00:16:27.129

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Bialectical beings?

112

00:16:27.420 --> 00:16:27.990

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Yes.

113

00:16:27.990 --> 00:16:28.730

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And…

114

00:16:28.970 --> 00:16:40.160

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: when you talk about energy, purchase big batteries. We're full of water, and water's an electrical conductor, so you need to be hydrated.

115

00:16:40.570 --> 00:16:46.750

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And the more of these practices you do, the more hydration you need, because you're… we're making…

116

00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:51.020

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Charges are, like, moving.

117

00:16:51.450 --> 00:16:55.240

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Stuff is getting burned up in the process.

118

00:16:55.630 --> 00:17:14.199

Tara Cousineau, PhD: You're absolutely right, and I know that you speak to many people who actually, you know, use these techniques, and I think with people who come in from this very intellectual, sort of high-achieving perspective, this is a stretch. But when you start to say, listen, you know, let me teach you about the nervous system, or let me teach you about the vagus nerve.

119

00:17:14.200 --> 00:17:33.249

Tara Cousineau, PhD: This is how it operates. And when we have strong vagal tone, we are actually in the flow. We can manage life really well, but when we don't, and you can read that on your own by having your whoop, or your watch, or whatever, you can start seeing the changes when you start engaging in these practices.

120

00:17:33.250 --> 00:17:36.449

Tara Cousineau, PhD: So sometimes people actually need that evidence.

121

00:17:36.540 --> 00:17:49.090

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And it's interesting now that we have all these tools that can actually help people, you know, sort of quantify themselves, essentially, and see that when they make these shifts, they start to feel better. And I think the hardest thing is

122

00:17:49.430 --> 00:18:03.670

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Especially for the high achievers who just want to be able to get it done, and they're looking for that quick fix, and, you know, they'll try meditation and come back and say, no, my mind's too busy, that doesn't work for me, or I'm not good enough at doing it. I'm not doing the meditation right, you know? I'm not breathing right.

123

00:18:03.910 --> 00:18:19.229

Tara Cousineau, PhD: You really have to do a lot of work with them, saying, you know what, this is… you're doing it right, you know, just by doing it, but you gotta keep doing it, right? You gotta do it consistently. Find those transition moments in your day, because consistency is key.

124

00:18:19.350 --> 00:18:24.660

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And then I go into the whole positive neuroplasticity training, like, if you want to learn a new language.

125

00:18:24.940 --> 00:18:39.639

Tara Cousineau, PhD: You gotta practice the language. If you want to learn how to manage your own nervous system, you have to practice these tools. And it's the same thing with self-compassion, right? My book is really about cultivating self-care and self-compassion, and it only works if you do it consistently.

126

00:18:41.100 --> 00:18:52.190

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's like anything new that you do, in the beginning, it's really frickin' hard. Like, I can remember learning to meditate, and, like, 3 minutes was an eternity.

127

00:18:53.180 --> 00:18:59.940

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But now, it's like, okay, I know the feeling that I'm going for, and I know when I get there, and then time stops.

128

00:19:00.490 --> 00:19:10.580

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And I'm just in that space, and it's so yummy and delicious, but you never find that space if you don't, like, endure the 3-minute torture in the beginning.

129

00:19:10.950 --> 00:19:11.810

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Yeah, you know…

130

00:19:11.810 --> 00:19:12.749

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Figure it out.

131

00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:28.520

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Totally, you're totally right, Jill, and I feel like, you know, often I'm just telling people, you have to actually make it pleasant in some way. So, create that little calming corner, you know, in your home, in your dorm room, in your office, where you can kind of just sit, create the cues.

132

00:19:28.520 --> 00:19:46.989

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Have a playlist, you know, ready, you know, a candle, a photo, something, so that it becomes, like, these little external cues, because otherwise, all the cues we get are the to-do list, the pings, all the notifications, and all of a sudden, we're just… our attention's going right to all of these other things, and so we actually really have to augment

133

00:19:47.030 --> 00:19:57.610

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Sort of our space, our mind space, and our physical space to really be conducive to taking this kind of, you know, slowing down, taking this gentle care.

134

00:19:57.830 --> 00:20:05.749

Tara Cousineau, PhD: So, curating those kinds of rituals really help with that kind of retraining, if you will, of the nervous system.

135

00:20:06.570 --> 00:20:13.339

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And not making it a chore. Like, another thing that I have to do every single day, and if I don't do it, somehow I have failed.

136

00:20:14.140 --> 00:20:19.830

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Because high achievers just really don't want to fail, but they really don't want one more thing added to their list.

137

00:20:19.830 --> 00:20:38.349

Tara Cousineau, PhD: They don't want anything added to their to-do list, and that's why a little bit of the science is helpful, you know, to talk about neuroplasticity and brain training and that… did you know there's a study that shows that 7 days of a self-compassion meditation actually begins to alter the networks in your brain and thicken the gray matter, and then they're like, oh, really?

138

00:20:38.350 --> 00:20:51.040

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Like, yeah, it just means that you have to keep on doing it. So sometimes, you know, with high achievers, you need to actually let them know there actually are physiological outcomes, and we now have technologies and brain imaging that proves it.

139

00:20:51.370 --> 00:20:52.360

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And…

140

00:20:52.360 --> 00:20:59.970

Tara Cousineau, PhD: You know, once you can kind of get them open to that, then it starts, like, kind of softening things a little bit.

141

00:21:00.150 --> 00:21:04.679

Tara Cousineau, PhD: But I would say the hardest thing out of all of those things is the self-compassion piece.

142

00:21:04.790 --> 00:21:05.580

Tara Cousineau, PhD: is…

143

00:21:05.900 --> 00:21:11.670

Tara Cousineau, PhD: really being a friend to yourself, and I think that that is the hardest thing for high achievers to do.

144

00:21:13.060 --> 00:21:23.279

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: They've just spent so long trying to, like, find it outside of themselves. The idea that it… it's… it's something that we're all born with.

145

00:21:23.840 --> 00:21:25.829

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You're… you are okay.

146

00:21:25.830 --> 00:21:27.880

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Yes, I know, I think in June.

147

00:21:29.280 --> 00:21:35.600

Tara Cousineau, PhD: With self-compassion is, is that if they soften in some area of their life, they're letting themselves off the hook.

148

00:21:35.780 --> 00:21:51.980

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Right? Or, you know, and because… and procrastination is, like, a near sister of perfectionism, which is another form of anxiety, essentially. You know, I say that perfectionism is protection. You're trying to protect yourself from that fear of rejection, reputation damage, whatever it might be.

149

00:21:52.020 --> 00:22:06.540

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And procrastination is really similar. It's an avoidance. It's your body's actually almost logical response to something that's perceived as a threat. Well, you're just gonna stop, or you're gonna hide, or you're not gonna do it, you're gonna avoid it as long as possible.

150

00:22:06.710 --> 00:22:25.119

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And so, the self-compassion, sometimes perfectionists get concerned, like, well, it's helped me this far, you know, if I'm not, you know, going at 110%, then I'm really gonna fall behind, or I'm not gonna do it at all, you know, it's like black and white thinking, and…

151

00:22:25.340 --> 00:22:29.170

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And I say, okay, well, Tell me, how are you feeling?

152

00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:32.670

Tara Cousineau, PhD: What is your body telling you?

153

00:22:33.620 --> 00:22:34.970

Tara Cousineau, PhD: What are you noticing?

154

00:22:35.980 --> 00:22:41.999

Tara Cousineau, PhD: oh, well, I'm really tense, my neck hurts all the time, right? And then I'm like, okay, then I don't think that your strategy is working for you.

155

00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:44.080

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Might you try?

156

00:22:44.800 --> 00:22:54.360

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Treating yourself like you would a friend who's actually also burnt out, you know, and trying really hard, and is worried that they're not gonna make it in life, like, what would you actually say to them?

157

00:22:54.770 --> 00:22:55.720

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And…

158

00:22:55.920 --> 00:23:10.989

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And then they start to soften, but it still is a new language. It's just having to repeat it over and over again, and so if they feel silly, or they're feeling like, you know, they're faking it, I'm like, well, just keep doing it. It's okay to be a beginner.

159

00:23:11.510 --> 00:23:15.449

Tara Cousineau, PhD: You don't have to know everything right now, just keep trying.

160

00:23:16.910 --> 00:23:25.130

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: We… we had a… a little experiment in our house. When I… when I was first trying to get into this state of

161

00:23:25.250 --> 00:23:27.819

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Not beating myself up over everything.

162

00:23:28.060 --> 00:23:29.789

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And not being enough.

163

00:23:30.140 --> 00:23:36.970

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I had been listening to Marissa Pierce, and she suggested putting writing on your mirror in, you know.

164

00:23:38.630 --> 00:23:46.940

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: marker, because it will come off, that you write on your mirror and marker, I am enough. So, I did it in the bathroom.

165

00:23:47.140 --> 00:23:53.240

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And then, my husband went in, Penny said, Me too!

166

00:23:54.340 --> 00:23:57.809

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And then my daughter went in, and she goes, YES!

167

00:23:58.410 --> 00:24:00.049

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I've always been enough.

168

00:24:00.410 --> 00:24:03.019

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Because that's just kind of the person she is.

169

00:24:03.670 --> 00:24:09.039

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But it was… it was just like, you know, you can start small, and it doesn't…

170

00:24:09.320 --> 00:24:19.090

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It may seem like it's just you, but it really mushrooms out into those around you, too, and so you're not just, like, having compassion for yourself.

171

00:24:19.100 --> 00:24:29.690

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And by having compassion for yourself, you're also having compassion for those around you who are significant in your life, whether, you know, you have people that live with you or not. It's like…

172

00:24:29.690 --> 00:24:30.390

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Yeah.

173

00:24:30.610 --> 00:24:31.280

Tara Cousineau, PhD: You know, it's…

174

00:24:31.280 --> 00:24:36.700

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Friends that come over and visit, they see evidence of, you know, hey, she's being good to herself.

175

00:24:36.700 --> 00:24:39.540

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Exactly. I mean, that's being a good role model, and

176

00:24:39.880 --> 00:24:56.479

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And still, you're gonna get the naysayers, you know, they're like, oh yeah, that, you know, I'm beautiful no matter what, or you're perfect the way you are, you know, that's all, you know, that's all hooey and BS. And that's when I actually say, I want you to try something

177

00:24:56.530 --> 00:25:12.579

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Which is, you know, basically the even-tho statement that's often used in EFT, but I've been… I was using an even-tho statement for years, because you need to hold the paradox, right? The paradox is, even though there's a part of me that feels like, I will never get this, or I'm not worthy.

178

00:25:13.310 --> 00:25:26.480

Tara Cousineau, PhD: I am practicing feeling enough, right? So that you're skirting at the edges, like, you're getting… you're softening around the edges first, even if you can't go to write that direct statement, I am enough.

179

00:25:27.580 --> 00:25:31.070

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Do the even though, even though there's a part of me that doesn't believe this.

180

00:25:31.410 --> 00:25:33.000

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I am practicing.

181

00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:34.109

Tara Cousineau, PhD: being enough.

182

00:25:34.360 --> 00:25:42.869

Tara Cousineau, PhD: You know, so I think, you know, helping to be in that gray area is really important for high achievers, because they're pretty much all or none.

183

00:25:43.650 --> 00:25:44.230

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah.

184

00:25:45.590 --> 00:25:47.199

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And it… it's…

185

00:25:47.520 --> 00:25:52.960

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's giving your brain something to be right about, because your brain wants to be right all the time.

186

00:25:53.180 --> 00:25:59.760

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And by saying, well, you know, I recognize, brain, that you think this way.

187

00:25:59.910 --> 00:26:03.510

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But we're gonna work on thinking a different way.

188

00:26:03.510 --> 00:26:04.210

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Yes.

189

00:26:04.210 --> 00:26:05.319

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: This is the goal!

190

00:26:05.360 --> 00:26:07.560

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Like, you know, I've set intentions.

191

00:26:07.720 --> 00:26:16.669

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Right. I mean, you know, affirmations work when your intentions are aligned. Affirmations don't work if there's so much resistance to them.

192

00:26:17.100 --> 00:26:25.559

Tara Cousineau, PhD: So, again, going back to the energy to kind of, like, get your energy flowing and in balance so that you can actually be receptive to saying, I am enough.

193

00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:42.830

Tara Cousineau, PhD: I remember having a little meeting with, some of us who were trained in a mindful self-compassion approach to psychotherapy, and I just brought up, you know, the great Louise Hay, who had her mirror exercise, you know, where you'd hold up a mirror and say, I love you. I love you very, very much.

194

00:26:43.540 --> 00:26:49.200

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And I was so struck with one of the women who is, like, a great teacher in self-compassion.

195

00:26:49.830 --> 00:26:51.170

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Started to tear up.

196

00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:53.399

Tara Cousineau, PhD: It's like, I don't think I can do that.

197

00:26:55.010 --> 00:26:58.619

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And I thought, oh, then this is your play work, isn't it?

198

00:26:58.720 --> 00:27:10.410

Tara Cousineau, PhD: to hold a mirror up and say, I love you. Like, look at yourself in the eyes and say, I love you, I love you very, very much. What a practice. And then we all talked about how emotional that is, is because we're not really taught that.

199

00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:21.810

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Right? We're always about loving other people, or caring for other people, or making everything good on the outside, but to actually be that sort of vulnerable and intimate with oneself, can just be a challenge.

200

00:27:23.310 --> 00:27:26.879

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, and just the whole…

201

00:27:27.850 --> 00:27:45.070

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So many of us were raised with the idea that anytime you go inward, or you think about yourself, or you express being proud of what you're doing, or gratitude to yourself for being who you are, that's selfish and that's bad.

202

00:27:45.300 --> 00:27:50.130

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Absolutely. Listen, every perfectionist has some story when they start really thinking about it.

203

00:27:50.520 --> 00:27:54.450

Tara Cousineau, PhD: There's a sort of lack of appropriate validation

204

00:27:55.350 --> 00:28:04.889

Tara Cousineau, PhD: when they needed it, at the age, at the developmental age that they needed it. I mean, we all want to be seen, we all want to be appreciated and loved and cheered on.

205

00:28:04.890 --> 00:28:16.999

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And a lot of people don't get that. Doesn't mean that they're going to turn into a perfectionist to overcompensate, but they're… you know, most of us have these sort of… these wounds that happen along the way. It can happen in childhood, it can happen in the workplace.

206

00:28:17.210 --> 00:28:19.460

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And so we have to kind of…

207

00:28:19.630 --> 00:28:24.380

Tara Cousineau, PhD: correct for that in some way, and so that's why the self-compassion is so key, because

208

00:28:24.720 --> 00:28:32.590

Tara Cousineau, PhD: as you become an adult, you can be that caregiver to yourself, and sometimes we call that spiritual reparenting.

209

00:28:32.800 --> 00:28:51.109

Tara Cousineau, PhD: is that you identify, oh no, I'll never forget that time when my dad, you know, got so mad at me when da-da-da-da-da. And, you know, instead of getting the hug, or, you know, the lesson or whatever, it was punishment, harm, fear.

210

00:28:51.230 --> 00:28:53.979

Tara Cousineau, PhD: We don't all have those, sort of.

211

00:28:54.440 --> 00:29:03.560

Tara Cousineau, PhD: statements or, you know, those specific memories, but we might live in a culture or a family where that kind of validation and affection

212

00:29:04.290 --> 00:29:09.120

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Might not have been purposely withheld, but it just wasn't part of the dynamic.

213

00:29:09.670 --> 00:29:10.270

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And so…

214

00:29:10.270 --> 00:29:28.949

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: there are a lot of situations where it actually was, and if you talk to the person that perpetrated it, their story is a lot different than the memory that you've created, and we all create memories, and those memories do change and adjust, and it's… I like to tell people.

215

00:29:29.320 --> 00:29:32.209

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You can totally make up a different story about that.

216

00:29:32.930 --> 00:29:41.760

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: to tell yourself. You don't have to hang on to that, and it can be whatever you want, so why not make it a story that benefits you, rather than one that's…

217

00:29:42.070 --> 00:29:47.839

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Gonna keep reminding you and making… getting worse over time, and it does get worse over time.

218

00:29:47.950 --> 00:29:49.170

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Because you just…

219

00:29:49.690 --> 00:29:50.120

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Yeah.

220

00:29:50.120 --> 00:29:51.000

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I don't work fellowship.

221

00:29:51.000 --> 00:30:09.430

Tara Cousineau, PhD: My first book was The Kindness Cure, How the Science of Compassion Can Heal Your Heart and Your World. And so there's this word that I actually learned from a yoga teacher, and I went back to her years later, and I'm like, do you remember saying that in that yoga class? And she's like, I don't remember saying that at all. I said, it's totally stuck in my brain, but the word is kind sight.

222

00:30:09.430 --> 00:30:13.920

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And I… I just use that for, you know, that we can…

223

00:30:13.920 --> 00:30:21.920

Tara Cousineau, PhD: We write our stories with kind sight, that we can view our life experiences with tenderness and understanding, and that in and of itself is a practice.

224

00:30:21.980 --> 00:30:29.600

Tara Cousineau, PhD: So part of that is really, you know, not only being kind to yourself, but really looking at those experiences.

225

00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:44.449

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And if there was no lesson learned, ultimately, there usually is some sort of… like, you wouldn't be the person you are today without having had that experience in some way, and to really make space and to honor that, and so I like to use the word kind sight.

226

00:30:45.310 --> 00:30:49.790

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I love that word. It's gonna be part of my vocabulary.

227

00:30:50.580 --> 00:30:52.080

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Duh.

228

00:30:53.230 --> 00:30:54.510

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Amazing.

229

00:30:56.740 --> 00:31:09.349

Tara Cousineau, PhD: I think we can rewrite our stories all the time, and so can perfectionists and high achievers. We can still be excellent, and I think that might have been one of your questions before, is like, how do you know, like, you know, when you've gone overboard? But,

230

00:31:09.420 --> 00:31:18.040

Tara Cousineau, PhD: The more self-aware we are, and the more we take care of our bodies, we likely won't go to that tipping point of having gone to the compulsive striving.

231

00:31:19.760 --> 00:31:21.030

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I like that.

232

00:31:21.550 --> 00:31:28.829

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I know that you have the Happy Achiever Tools and Rewire Your Inner Critic. Do you want to talk about that a little bit?

233

00:31:29.010 --> 00:31:48.129

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Oh, sure. So, The Perfectionist Dilemma, is a book that I wrote with a lot of these stories, actually, and I have this little method in there with an acronym, because psychologists love acronyms, called EVOLVE, and they're six steps, and, so that book is really about how to kind of work through that sort of achievement anxiety.

234

00:31:48.230 --> 00:32:06.560

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And the perfectionism piece, even if you don't totally identify with it. And associated with that are just free downloads that you can get at the book website, which is perfectionistDilemma.com, and download those for free, and there's a little master class also on little energy tools on that. So that's free for people.

235

00:32:06.570 --> 00:32:20.989

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And, recently I launched a new online digital course called, Rewire Your Inner Critic. And that, I feel like, is distilling my six steps down into, like, 2 or 3 to get to the essentials, because people are like.

236

00:32:21.670 --> 00:32:35.829

Tara Cousineau, PhD: I just gotta get rid of my inner critic. And I'm like, no, that will never work. You cannot silence or banish the inner critic. You need to befriend the inner critic, and so the Rewire Your Inner Critic is really about, you know, how to do that, at least to get started, anyway.

237

00:32:36.620 --> 00:32:39.229

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I love that. And you're on Substack now, so let's…

238

00:32:39.230 --> 00:32:45.820

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Yeah, so that's a new thing for me. So I am actually doing a lot of self-affirmations around, it's okay to be a beginner.

239

00:32:45.820 --> 00:32:52.910

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: you don't need to know everything. And so that sub-stack is called the Peaceful Perfectionist.

240

00:32:52.920 --> 00:33:04.889

Tara Cousineau, PhD: And it's the place where I can kind of continue to, you know, have conversation and dialogue, about, perfectionism, overcoming it, being kind to yourself, self-compassion, and those kinds of things.

241

00:33:05.760 --> 00:33:10.280

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Love it, love it. Thank you so much for joining me today, Dr. Tara.

242

00:33:10.280 --> 00:33:12.859

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Jill, thanks for having me, it's a fun conversation.

243

00:33:12.860 --> 00:33:32.359

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It was, it was. To learn more about Dr. Tara, and to find the Happy Achiever Tools, or the Rewire Your Inner Critic course, be sure to visit her website, theperfectionistDilemma.com, or her substack, which is Tara, C-O-U-S-P-H-D dot com.

244

00:33:32.360 --> 00:33:33.060

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: No.

245

00:33:33.580 --> 00:33:41.880

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's T-A-R-A-C-O-U-S-P-H-D dot substack.com. I always want to put that .com too soon.

246

00:33:41.880 --> 00:33:46.340

Tara Cousineau, PhD: Search for the Peaceful Perfectionist, and they'll find me on Substack, yeah.

247

00:33:46.340 --> 00:33:49.300

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Perfect, and we'll put that in the show notes below.

248

00:33:49.500 --> 00:33:54.230

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Thanks for tuning in with us today to the UWorld Order Showcase podcast.

249

00:33:54.660 --> 00:33:58.229

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: If today's conversation hit home, and you want to apply

250

00:33:58.440 --> 00:34:07.229

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: help applying it. Book your free client acquisition audit at coachesalchemist.com. We'll map your fastest path to clients in 30 minutes.

251

00:34:07.230 --> 00:34:18.840

Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Links in the show notes. Be sure to join us for our next episode as we share what others are doing to raise the global frequency. And remember, change begins with you. You have all the power to change the world. Start today and get visible.