Matt Edmundson: Welcome to this week's Crowd Church service.
We are a digital church on a quest to discover how Jesus helps
us live a more meaningful life.
We are a community, a space to explore the Christian faith, and a place
where you can contribute and grow.
Our service will last about an hour, and in a few seconds we
will start with a time of worship, after which you will meet Jesus.
Our hosts for our service who will introduce today's talk.
After the talk, we head into Conversation Street, where we look at your stories
and questions that you've posted in the comments throughout the live stream.
I want to invite you to connect with us here at Crowd Church, and there are
a few ways that you can do just that.
Firstly, you can engage with Crowd from any device during our live
stream, and if you're up for it.
Why not invite a few friends over and experience the service together?
You see, church is all about connecting with God and connecting with others.
And one of the easiest ways for you to do that is to also join one of our
mid week groups, where we meet up.
Online together to catch up and discover more about the amazingness of Christ.
You can also subscribe to our podcast called What's the Story, where we
deep dive into stories of faith and courage from everyday people.
More information about all of these things that I've mentioned can
be found on our website at www.
crowd.
church.
www.
crowd.
church or you can reach us on social media at crowdchurch if you're new
to crowd or new to the christian faith and would like to know what
your next steps to take are well why not head over to our website crowd.
church forward slash next for more details
and now the moment you've been waiting for is here our online church service
starts right now Now, well, hello and welcome to Crowd Online Church.
Great to see you.
Great that you're here with us.
Uh, for those of you don't know me, my name is Matt Edmundson.
I get to be part of the team here and beside me, probably more importantly,
uh, is Jan, Jan Birch and Jan, your first time hosting Crowd.
Welcome.
Thank you.
You're in the driving.
Well, I'm in the driving seat.
You're in the passenger seat.
How does it feel?
Jan Burch: Yeah, scary.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, well, when you've got people like Matt Crew in
the comments, there's plenty to be scared about, isn't there, really?
So, uh, very warm welcome to you.
Do say hi to Jan, uh, if you're in the comments.
Uh, if you're watching us live, do come say hi in the comments.
It'd be great to hear from you.
Um, yeah.
And it's also Remembrance Sunday.
We were just saying that, weren't we?
Uh, yes.
Um, I've not had, uh, I'm a little bit rushed tonight, uh,
getting the live stream ready.
For reasons which I won't bore you with, but, uh, we're a little
bit rushed and so I've not had a chance to get everything sorted out.
One of which is...
The minute silence that we normally do on crowd.
So I will try and resolve that whilst the talk is going on.
Um, but yes, Remembrance Sunday.
We're going to talk about that probably after the talk a little bit more.
So just to acknowledge that it is Remembrance Sunday, pop your Sunday today.
For those of you outside of the UK, uh, Remembrance Sunday is
like, um, uh, Memorial Sunday, what do they call it in the States?
Memorial Day?
Yeah.
I think it's Memorial Day, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah.
Uh, we call it Remembrance Sunday.
It's where we remember the.
The ones that have gone before us and, you know, uh, sort of fought in wars
and all that kind of stuff so that we can enjoy the freedoms that we have.
Um, so yeah, Remembrance Sunday, we've got Nicola in the comments, evening
Nicola or evening Lala, as we like to say.
Hi Nicola.
I've got Matt Crew in the comments.
Hi Matt.
Matt's saying here, look, I can add this to the broadcast saying, uh,
welcome to the Crowd Church family, Jen.
Oh, thank you.
Thank you very much.
And Denny's actually, he's, he's, he's trying to, he's,
look, he's put Jan Birch, legend.
Jan Burch: Yeah, don't know how he knows that.
Is it not true?
Don't think so,
Matt Edmundson: no.
I'm sure it is.
I'm sure it is, Jen.
But yes, do say hi in the comments.
So tonight, I've not prepped you for this actually, but
you do know what's coming up.
I do.
What's coming up?
It's Chris Holcombe.
The Right Reverend, Chris Holcombe, say Right Reverend,
he's not a Right Reverend at all.
Doctor Chris, in fact he's gone beyond Doctor now, isn't he?
Oh, is he a professor?
I've no idea, but you don't call him Doctor Holcombe, you call him Mr Holcombe.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So in the UK, if you're watching outside of the UK, the way this works
is when you're a doctor, you're a doctor, you can call yourself a doctor.
But then you, and you know this because you're in the medical field, after
a while you stop being a doctor and you become a mister again, don't you?
Yeah,
Jan Burch: the more senior you are, yeah.
Which
Matt Edmundson: is bizarre.
Jan Burch: Yeah.
It's mainly to do with surgeon, surgery.
Okay.
Um, medical doctors tend to be doctor, but, um, surgeons are Mr.
or Miss.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
So you, you work really hard and go back to your original title of
Jan Burch: Mr.
Yeah.
All that hard work.
Matt Edmundson: It's generally how it works.
Um, so yeah, Jenny's in the comments.
Hey Jenny, how you doing?
Good to see you.
Uh, always nice to see you.
Uh, yeah.
So, uh, we've got Mr.
Chris Holcombe because he has, he's gone through the doctor bit and he's like, he's
a very good, he's a very good surgeon.
He is, I believe
Jan Burch: he
Matt Edmundson: is.
Yep.
So, we've got Chris Holcombe tonight to carry us on in our, in our journey.
I was going to say story.
It's not a story.
Uh, in our journey through the book of Acts, uh, he is taking us forward.
Um, Evening, Matt, still feeling good about your new decade.
Now, I'm assuming, Jenny, I'm going to put this on the broadcast because I can.
I'm assuming you're talking to Matt Crew.
Because Matt Crew, who is always in the comments every week, turned 40.
I want you to know he is now officially ancient.
The man who is constantly ragging me and teasing me about my
age is now officially ancient.
He's now into his 40s.
Jan Burch: Life
Matt Edmundson: begins then.
Apparently so, apparently so.
Uh, but yes, uh, I won't put back in the comments yet.
Uh, but yes, happy birthday to Matt Crew, uh, from all of us
here at Crowd Church, obviously.
Now, without further ado, let's get into, uh, Chris Holcombe.
So we're going to have a talk.
Chris is going to, uh, talk to us from the Book of Acts.
We've been working our way through the Book of Acts.
We are very near the end now.
Uh, we're going to end the end of Jan, Jan.
Oh, okay, Matt.
So at the end of Jan, we've got, so we're almost there.
So Chris is going to take us on the next chapter.
Jan and I will then be back for Conversation Street after
Chris has done his talk.
So don't go anywhere.
Do join us in the comments, write any questions that you have.
Uh, any stories, anything you want to share, put it in the comments.
We'd love to see it.
Uh, Jan and I will see you in there, but for now, here's Chris.
Chris Holcombe: Hello, it's a pleasure to have the opportunity to speak briefly on.
Matt Edmundson: Oh, sorry about that.
We're going to try Chris again, see how we get on.
Chris Holcombe: Hello, it's a pleasure to have the opportunity to speak briefly on.
Acts chapter 19, a chapter full of action in the, in the early church
and Paul's missionary journeys.
Let's start reading from the message of the first couple of verses.
Paul made his way down through the mountains, came to Ephesus and
happened on some disciples there.
First thing he said was, did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?
Did you take God into your mind only?
Or did you also embrace him with your heart?
Did he get inside you?
And, it's absolutely key this, the whole business of mind and heart.
So, faith, Christianity, is not just about head knowledge.
It's not something that's theoretical, that's nice, that's interesting.
It's not just...
A nice philosophy, but rather this is something about your heart, it gets inside
you, this is something that's going to make a difference, something that I'm
going to pursue, something that will change what I do, change my behaviour.
We go on and read in verse 4, that explains it said Paul.
Preached a baptism of radical life change, so that people would be
ready to receive the one coming after him, who turned out to be Jesus.
If you've been baptised in John's baptism, you're ready now for the real thing.
You're ready for Jesus.
And, it's that readiness now of, actually, your head says yes.
Now it's your heart.
Now, now you're ready for Jesus to take all of you and take your heart.
But it's even more than that because what comes with that is the Holy Spirit.
When Jesus was still on earth, Jesus promised to leave us with the Holy Spirit
and in John 14 Uh, verse 25 in the Gospel of John, we read the Friend, the Holy
Spirit, whom the Father will send at my request, I'm going to leave him with you.
And it's that same Holy Spirit that changed a bunch of scared disciples that
we read about at the beginning of Acts, a bunch of scared disciples in the upper
room, into a bunch of people who changed.
The world as we know it.
So a Holy Spirit that gives boldness, but a Holy Spirit who gives gifts,
and again reading from the message, a Holy Spirit who gives wise
counsel, clear understanding, simple trust, healing the sick, miraculous
acts, proclamation, distinguishing spirits, speaking in tongues.
Gives us those gifts, gives us fruit, as we read in Galatians where it
says again from the message, the Holy Spirit gives us affection for others,
exuberance for life, willingness to stick with things, a sense of compassion
in the heart, a loyal commitment.
And if we know God, if we've been baptised in the Holy Spirit, if
we've taken the Holy Spirit into our.
It's that same Holy Spirit who we take with us into work when we go
along there on a Monday morning.
It's the same Holy Spirit who we take down the pub with us when we go for a drink
with our friends, to the football, to that family gathering, because we are filled
with the Spirit whether we like it or not.
This is the Spirit.
Given when Paul laid hands on the disciples in Ephesus.
And Christianity isn't just about head knowledge.
It's not just a nice philosophy, but about the whole, our whole lives, our heart, our
mind, our soul, driven by the Holy Spirit.
And that what, that's what makes a difference.
To who we are, what we do and, and it's that difference that makes people curious.
So going down the chapter a little bit to verse 18 we read, curiosity,
curiosity about Paul developed into reverence for the Master.
And I find this a challenge.
How do we make that link, or how do we show to others that link between who I
am, what I do and why I do it, to Jesus?
So people might like me, they might think what I do is good,
they might be curious about me, but how does that point to Jesus?
How does that lead to reverence?
For the Master Jesus.
I think in many ways this is a two parter.
First is who we are, how we behave.
We will all be familiar with the phrase, actions speak louder than words.
And so it is.
And this is the very foundation of Being able to say anything
because people are watching.
Friends, colleagues, they're all watching.
They're watching what we do, how we behave, the people
at work, our neighbours.
Are you honest?
Do you gossip?
Do you do what you say you will?
Do you care, really care?
Do you demonstrate grace and, and what we read here in Acts 19 is that Paul's
actions lay the foundation of his words.
So, so we see him, uh, in the meeting place arguing and convincing, but
that's backed up by his actions.
We read in verse 11, God did powerful things through Paul,
quite out of the ordinary.
And he was healing the sick, and things that had been in
his possession healed the sick.
And we too can pray for those who are sick around us, pray for those in
need, and see God move supernaturally.
But actually it's not only that.
Because what we might consider more mundane things are also
quite out of the ordinary.
And actually that's really important as we live out our faith, our everyday
life, our whole life faith, at work, in the neighbourhood, with our friends.
So actually showing grace to our colleagues when they
fail is out of the ordinary.
Forgiving relatives when they mess up.
Demonstrating agape love, that love that we show without any expectation of
return from those to whom we are loving.
And at one level these things are very ordinary and yet at another level
these are quite out of the ordinary, uncommon, almost unheard of in the
secular world in which we live.
And it is as we demonstrate being a Christian by our actions So we come to
the second part, so we can, we can speak, we can share the good news of the gospel.
Our actions, our behaviour opens the way to discussion of our faith, to sharing
its joy, to sharing its hardships, its uncertainties, its pain on occasion.
But without that foundation of behaviour.
We simply will not be heard.
And again, that's capsulated in the New Testament in 1 John chapter 3,
in verse 18, we read, Dear children, let us not love with words or speech,
but with actions and its truth.
And it's as those two work together, hand in glove, that it's effective, that
there's power, that there's reality.
So, let's pause for a moment.
Um, we've heard the good news of the gospel, we understand it in our
mind, but it goes further than that.
We're then filled with the Holy Spirit, our heart is changed, and when
our heart is changed, our behaviour is changed, how we treat people is
different, which gives us the opportunity to speak, to share the good news.
And at least potentially to be heard.
It's easy to portray the gospel as all good news, somehow warm
and fluffy like a big, big hug.
And there's elements undoubtedly of that.
But, but it's also, but it's, it's all, it's not always that.
For everyone, and for those, not always that, for those
who hold power and influence.
Changing how things are done might be great for the poor, for the less well
paid, but that has the consequences, reduces the profits for those at the top.
Being honest, exposing untruth, will not be welcomed by many.
will not be welcomed by those who lose power, who lose
influence, those who lose money.
They're not going to be happy.
And they're not going to go quietly.
And so it is in Ephesus, where we read about a riot erupting.
Demetrius is the local silversmith, he's got a good...
So, business going on with the idols he's creating, and he sees Paul having
this influence, but very quickly sees his business disappearing,
sees his profits disappearing.
So, so stirs everyone up.
Um, we have to stop this.
Everyone knows Artemis is our God, but you know, we...
We have to stop it, but of course it's not about Artemis, it's about his prophets,
and that's, that's very often the case.
And, interesting reading this, uh, again, uh, looking at
this account of the, the riot.
I was struck how much the account in Acts sounds like a modern day Twitter storm.
Everyone getting involved, everyone wading in.
In verse 32, again in the message read, some were yelling one thing, some another.
Most of them had no idea what was going on or why they were there.
That, it sounds very much like that social media echo chamber in full swing.
And those who are losing out, are going to kick that off, they're not
going to go easily, and that can be difficult, that costs, but doing the
right thing, is the right thing, and it's what God asks us to do, it's
what God expects us to do, and there will be many, many around you at work.
In your neighborhood who will be very grateful for that.
But again, there are those who will not be grateful and who
will kick up a storm in response.
So in conclusion, we see faith.
We see Christianity.
It's not just this or that.
It's about this and that.
It's not just about your mind or your heart, it's about your mind.
And your heart, working together.
It's not just actions or words, but it's both.
It's action and words, one built upon the other.
It's not just about being nice and forgiving everyone, or
calling out injustice, but both.
It's about love and forgiveness and calling out injustice,
all of that powered by God's Holy Spirit.
Thank
Matt Edmundson: you.
So, welcome back.
Big thanks to Chris Holcombe for doing that talk.
Uh, it's, um, it's, doing these talks always requires a bit of effort and a
bit of time and a bit of forethought.
Uh, and so super grateful that Chris took the time to do that.
You, you took lots of notes.
I did.
Uh, lots and lots of notes.
Now, what we're gonna do, before we get into Conversation Street,
hopefully, uh, let me just do this.
I am going to just queue up the video, he says.
Hopefully this is going to work.
I'm going to queue up the video for Remembrance Sunday,
which is in here somewhere.
So whilst I'm doing that, you just talk about one of the things
that you enjoyed from the video.
Jan Burch: Okay.
Um, I found, I found it very challenging.
Matt Edmundson: Chris is always challenging.
Jan Burch: It's like he is.
You know, very calm manner, but packs a punch, you know, in the, so
I found, I found it challenging from the very beginning about, is God,
have you taken God into your mind only or is he in your heart also?
It's like.
Okay, yeah, you're like,
Matt Edmundson: thanks.
Jan Burch: Thanks, Chris.
Yeah, it's just
Matt Edmundson: challenging.
Yeah, yeah, we'll get into that.
So what I want to do now, let me go back to this scene here and back to live mode.
So hopefully those changes, you didn't see me playing around with the system.
Hopefully that was all fine day.
So what we're going to do, because it is Remembrance Sunday, So what we're Uh, we
are just going to take a few moments to remember those that have gone before us,
and to do that, we're going to play the video, uh, called The Last Post, which
is the theme, I only explained it on the video, so we're going to play that, we're
going to have a minute's silence, um, then we're going to have the rails, then Jan
and I will be back after this, Uh, it is Remembrance Sunday here in the UK, a few
seconds, a few minutes to remember those who have given the, well given a lot,
uh, whether it's their life, uh, whether, uh, it's just been a little part of their
soul, you know, uh, and they've come back very different people in modern times, um,
but a lot of people are doing, fighting a lot of conflicts around the world for our
freedom and so, uh, it's time to remember those, especially with all the wars that
are going on in, um, Israel, Gaza, we've got Russia, Ukraine, we've got, um, Sudan.
I mean, there's crazy stuff, uh, going off around the world.
So let's spend some time remembering those that have gone.
Let's spend some time remembering those who have, who are in conflict
at the moment and pray for peace.
Um, and then John and I will be back after this.
Hopefully this works fine.
Everyone's president is me.
Okay, welcome back.
Uh, hopefully that works, uh, from a technical point of view.
Sorry again for not checking that.
Now I just want to read this.
On this Remembrance Sunday, we stand in a solemn congregation, bridging the past
and present in our collective memory.
We remember not only the brave souls of a bygone era, but also our
contemporary heroes who have faced the harrowing crucibles of conflict.
Many did not return, leaving a part of themselves on distant battlefields.
Others came back forever changed, carrying invisible yet indelible marks of war.
Today we honour their courage, their resilience and their immense sacrifices.
We remember those who stood valiantly in the face of adversity, fighting for
the freedoms we so clearly cherish.
And we acknowledge the profound cost of such bravery, not just in lives lost, but
in futures altered and in dreams deferred.
We will remember them, not just as a phrase, but as a solemn
pledge to recognize all who have given so much for so many.
On this day, our gratitude is deep and our remembrance resolute, spanning
across all generations of heroes.
And so it is, I, I am, a fan is the wrong phrase, Jen.
I do like to take a bit of time on remembrance and date,
um, just to remember those.
And so, shall we pray and then we'll get into Conversation Street.
Do me to pray?
Yeah, you pray.
It's your first Sunday after all, don't want to throw you in the deep end.
Yeah, Father, thank you for those who have given so much, whether it was
their life, whether it was just they've left part of them on the battlefield.
Um, and Father, thank you for those that have fought for our freedoms.
You know, many wars are unjust and some of them are just, and People are always hurt.
People are always scarred on both sides of the fence.
And Lord, we pray for peace at this time.
We remember the conflicts that are going on around the world.
And as we remember some of the wars from the past, we also remember the
wars that are going on at the moment.
And Lord, we pray for your intervention.
We pray you would intervene.
We pray for wisdom, for leaders.
We pray for bravery for those who are involved.
Uh, encouraged to do what is right and just.
Amen.
Very good.
And on that note, we will get into Conversation Street.
So.
Are you singing Coronation Street?
I was
Jan Burch: because it's very similar.
Matt Edmundson: Yes, it is very similar.
And for those of you don't know what Coronation Street is, you might
as well, you might have to explain
Jan Burch: that.
Coronation Street is a soap opera, um, a show in the UK,
which has been going for Years.
All of my life.
At least 21 years.
I
Matt Edmundson: think Noah was in the Coronation Street.
Some of the early, some of the early episodes.
Enid Sharples.
Well, so yes, uh, Coronation Street.
I don't recommend you watch it.
Nah,
Jan Burch: it's a bit depressing.
Matt Edmundson: It's a little bit like most soap operas to be fair.
Yeah, fair enough.
That was a bit random, Singing Coronation Street.
I've not had that before, but that's awesome.
Okay.
So, we definitely need a theme tune for Conversation Street.
It's got to be that.
I'll get Josh to write one.
We used to have one, um, what was that theme tune we used for Catch It?
Maybe we could use that.
I'll find it.
We'll find that out.
I'll get Josh to sort it out.
So yes, Conversation Street.
So, what did you think to Chris's talk?
Uh, you started off by saying that you thought it was very challenging.
It was
Jan Burch: very challenging and I thought you did, you know, it was excellent.
Um, yeah, just the whole thing to start with, you know, that we have to.
It's not just a one off thing when you first become a Christian, um, but our
minds sometimes can take over our hearts, you know, that our heart can disengage.
Um, I will, I know that for me, um, some, some things are head
knowledge and, you know, you have to push through for the heart.
Yeah.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
It's interesting, isn't it?
The longest distance is from here to here, so I can't remember who said it,
but somebody said the longest distance is from your head to your heart.
And actually getting something in here, versus just here,
is really hard to do, right?
Um, but it's where the challenge, it's where the life changes, right?
This is, this is where God dwells.
Um, God also dwells in our minds, he helps us, you know, we have We have the mind
of Christ, we have the wisdom of Christ, it's not like we take God out of our
thinking, but there is something about a heart change in Christianity, isn't there?
Absolutely, yeah.
That is, that is quite extraordinary, and that's where the Holy Spirit,
it seems, uh, operates most effectively is in our hearts.
What heart changes have you experienced?
Jan Burch: Yeah, a lot, lots over the years, I would say.
Um, I think...
I think when I first got married, um, I was, I was challenged, uh, quite a lot.
I think I had prejudices that I wasn't aware of, um, and was frightened of maybe
certain, certain people groups or not, not traveling or anything, but there was some
things or looking into other religions, you know, I was, I was quite sceptical.
I was very...
Um, but I'm not, I'm not advocating it, but I'm just saying, it's
okay, we're safe, it's okay to, to ask questions and, you know,
Matt Edmundson: so that's an interesting one, isn't it?
Because I think a lot of people struggle with that aspect of
the ability to question and the ability to search as a Christian.
It's like, well, surely I should know what it is.
Um, and people really struggle to.
To have that sort of freedom, uh, you know, almost like God's going to get them.
Yeah, absolutely.
Do you know what I mean?
And it's, uh, it's not healthy at all, is it?
No.
And
Jan Burch: if God doesn't, if someone in church will, you know, it's,
it's legalistic, it's fear based.
And I think God is, you know, it's God who gives us our minds, our
spirits, our personalities, and he knows, he's, and he's secure.
With us asking questions.
You know, he'd rather that than us do things without fully understanding
or embracing it, you know, properly.
Yeah,
Matt Edmundson: yeah.
It's in, you read through the book of Psalms and there's David just asking
thousands and thousands of questions.
Mm-Hmm, God seems okay with that.
You know, uh, church sometimes isn't, um.
But God on the whole is, uh, and I think asking those questions
is, um, is totally fine.
Uh, what's Matt put here, please don't sing, we can't afford the royalties.
Okay.
Uh, head knowledge of God is quite easy, but, uh, having God
in your, uh, I'm guessing that's heart, uh, is coming up there.
So yeah, let's put that on the broadcast.
Had knowledge of God is quite easy, but I, uh, I find, but having God
in your heart, I'm imagining is what Nicola is going to say there, um,
is not always as straightforward.
Have you found that?
Jan Burch: I have found that, um, I think, I think we, you know,
we're very, um, professional about being Christians sometimes.
I love that, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That we can go through the motions, can't we, without really...
You know, it's just a decision.
It's just something we have to do.
Yeah.
Um, but we can remain untouched by by things.
And yeah, so I don't think that's, that's how it should be.
I'm not saying that we should be emotional.
You know, wrecks every day or
Matt Edmundson: that's good.
Because I don't think I
Jan Burch: could do that.
But yeah, that's it.
I think it takes, you know, we're, we're one person, but
we're made up of different parts.
And it's, it's opening the door to all of that, isn't it?
Yeah,
Matt Edmundson: it is.
I love that so many people are professional Christians.
Jan Burch: It is,
Matt Edmundson: isn't it?
Yeah.
Have you seen that a lot?
Yeah.
So how do you, if head knowledge is easy, which is something Chris was
talking about, Um, but heart knowledge, uh, having God in your heart is because
it's, it's, it, like you say, it's easy to go, yeah, well, you know, I can
mentally ascend to God doing dot dot dot.
But when there's a heart change required, that's where we wrestle.
So how, how do you get it from here to here?
Have you done that?
Jan Burch: I think, I think it's got to be, um, trusting God
and, um, you know, spending time with him when you know someone.
You're more likely to trust them and be prepared to take that next step.
Yeah, um, yeah.
Matt Edmundson: No, very true.
When you know someone, you're more prepared to trust them.
And, uh, here we go.
Let's read the rest of what Nicola's put here, so, uh, had knowledge
of God is quite easy, but having God in your heart is a completely
different thing and place to be.
Yes, that's true, I can put that on there.
Um, yes it is, and I think, um, it's worth the time and investment to
do that, and, um, allowing the Holy Spirit to do that transforming work.
And so this is where, uh, we get back to what Chris was talking about, because
actually he was, he was bringing up those scriptures, like 1 John 3, 18, about Um,
uh, Christian faith, not just being words only, but actually also based on action.
So there's, there's what we say and there's what we do and those
two things have to marry up.
Right.
And this is where I think your comment, coming back to it, the professional
Christians, this is where professional Christians struggle is because what
they say and what they do don't.
Yeah.
Marry up.
Don't marry up.
Do they?
Whereas, um.
What we do and how we act has got to tie into our words.
So, um, and this is, this is probably the hardest thing because this is,
and this is where Christians get called hypocrites a lot, right?
So, we may profess to be a Christian and I think the example that Chris
gave, was, uh, giving grace to people when they, when they mess up.
And you leaned over to me and said, Oh, you don't do that.
Jan Burch: No, I didn't, Matt.
Matt Edmundson: In a jokey kind of way, I was going to say.
But it is, it is one of those things, isn't it?
It's like, yes, we are Christians.
Yes, we believe God, but, um, I also have my right to.
Have my pound of flesh from that person over there if they didn't
do what I said, um, and so it's, uh, that's where head knowledge
and heart start to wrestle, right?
Jan Burch: Definitely, and, um, I think it's called integrity.
That's true.
You know, it's, it's okay being one thing, but you, you know, you've got to be that
when the, you know, when you're paying your You know, window cleaning bill, um,
whatever's going on, you know, when you're in the car and the person in front of you
didn't indicate and, you know, things like that bug me, but we should be the same
Matt Edmundson: person.
We should.
Yeah, I really need to make note of that because I'm definitely not the
same person when I drive sometimes.
Okay, well that's just
Jan Burch: not good enough.
Matt Edmundson: It's so true.
My daughter looks at me sometimes and questions whether I'm
actually a Christian when I drive.
Uh, which is not, I mean, it, you know, it's not great.
I joke about it, but, um, uh, you know, it's, it is one of those things where.
You're right, the way we are in every aspect of our life, we
want it to mirror the gospel.
I do think sometimes if Jesus was driving a car, he would have a, he
would have a word with a few people.
Of course,
Jan Burch: there's righteous anger.
Yeah, I don't think that's what you're talking about
Chris Holcombe: then.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, probably is, but it's fair play really, it's fair play.
That is fair play.
But it's interesting, isn't it?
This, I think it's, there's this really interesting analogy that I
heard once, which I think is so true.
And that is, when the pressure is applied to us, what's on
the inside comes out, right?
So The analogy was a squeezy ketchup bottle, right?
It's not until you turn it upside down and squeeze it that you find
out what's really on the inside.
You could have, you know, a ketchup label on the outside, but it's not
until the pressures applied that you find out what's really on the inside.
And with Christians, I find it's the same.
We, we say we are Christians that, you know, blah, blah,
blah, and all of this stuff.
But when the pressures applied to us.
When we get squeezed a little bit, what's really in us starts to come out and
quite often what's in us is not ketchup, it's, um, it's, and it's really not
good, and it's, and we know what comes out of us because of what we say, right?
So, um, out of the abundance of the hearts, the mouth speaks,
Bible tells us in Proverbs, and so it's in those precious situations.
It's how you talk that you kind of go.
That's a real indicator of maybe something inside that needs to change.
So if, um, you know, I might moan when somebody cuts me up, but I,
I'm, what I am really aware of is if anything slightly hateful or hurtful
starts to come out of my mouth.
That's when I'm kind of going, God, I, there's something in here
that needs to change inside me because that's a heart thing.
Um, and so when the pressures are applied, uh, that's when we find
out what really, really makes us.
And this is where behavior, um, has to match what we believe, right?
So, um, what we say and how we act is super, super important.
Of course.
Jan Burch: I, I think, um, you know, what Chris said as well with that.
Whether we like it or not, when we, you know, when we profess to be Christians,
when people that we work with know that we're Christians, they are watching
us, and your neighbours are watching, and your family who aren't Christians
are watching you, and it seems a bit unfair, but that's the way it is, and
um, I used to really struggle with this at work, um, I've never with it.
I've never been someone who's swore a lot or anything, it wasn't that, but it
was some days, you know, work is just tough, it's tough, but I, when I was a
young Christian, I kind of felt that I, I didn't want to be a bad witness, so I felt
like I had to always be happy, always be.
Um, on things always, you know, on time or blah, blah, blah, all good things,
but actually there, you are a human being and I think we will all get it wrong.
We will lose our temper.
We will get impatient.
We will be sarcastic, um, or gossip, you know, uh, okay, but I think it's.
Then recognizing that and saying I messed up there.
Yeah, and I've sometimes apologized to work colleagues for being impatient
Not saying, you know, it happens all the time, but I think it's okay.
We are human.
Yeah, we are gonna blow it You know, yeah, um, but I think it's also important to be
humble enough to say I'm really sorry You
Matt Edmundson: know, totally totally agree.
It's really powerful, isn't it?
That I think sometimes it's when I've gone back to people and apologised, that
actually becomes the most powerful words.
Yeah, absolutely.
Because people go, well, yes, you are human, no, you're not perfect, but
the fact that you're big enough to come and apologise, that says a lot.
Absolutely.
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah.
Um, and I, I think, again, What was it Chris said, the right, you do the right
thing because it's the right thing to do.
That's right.
Right.
And, um, and yeah, I, I think we, we, so I, it's interesting how you put it,
because you talked about how you felt like you needed to act and be a certain
way to be a good witness, like trying to act and be something that we're not.
Yeah.
It's a big pressure.
It's a massive pressure, isn't it?
Yeah.
And actually, um, And I was, I think I was the same way for a long
time and it's, it's almost like I had to protect God's reputation
Jan Burch: somehow.
Yeah, I mean?
Yeah, yeah.
Matt Edmundson: And, um, and actually as the older I've got,
the more I've realized that I'm not sure I was protecting anything.
To be fair, I think that probably I was doing slightly more damage because
people, because this again comes back to the comment you made earlier about
professional Christians, you know.
Um, but I think.
Um, and people, the other thing is people look at it and go, well,
you know, if I need to become a Christian, I've got to live like
that, I've got to be totally perfect.
I can't, you know, I can't do drink, I can't do drugs, I can't, I can't
even take an aspirin, I can't sniff alcohol, you know, I can only wear
white, whatever it is, you know, whatever those beliefs are, um, which are not.
I mean, don't do drugs, obviously, but the rest of it we could
probably have a conversation about.
Um, but it's one of those where I think we give this impression to
people that they have to be something that they're not to be a Christian.
And actually, God just wants you, authentic
Jan Burch: you, right?
Yeah, because I think if we continue down that road, we're setting people
up to fail and it's very unattractive.
Yeah, it's very unrealistic.
Um, you know, I, I, you are what you are.
Yes, we, I think we do have a, um.
We do have a responsibility in how, what language we use and, you know,
if we're kind to people and that's a choice that we make every day.
Yeah.
Um, you know, but those things are really important, but we, you know,
God, there's grace, isn't there?
There is.
God shows us grace.
We can show it to other people and ourselves.
Yeah.
I think.
Someone once said, um, you know, if you treat yourself
like you would your best friend.
Yeah.
Because we can all be so hard on ourselves.
Yeah.
Um, I, um, particularly struggle with that.
Are you your worst enemy?
Yeah.
You're our worst enemy.
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Mm.
You know, call yourself stupid, don't you?
Oh, what a flippid idiot.
And, um, we just have a, need a bit more grace for, for ourselves.
Mm.
Um, yeah.
Matt Edmundson: I think that's one of the works that the Holy Spirit does
in you, isn't it, is actually you, it's really interesting that you, in
Christianity, one of the things that I, one of the transforming works I think
of the Holy Spirit is you start to see yourself the way the Holy Spirit sees you.
Right.
Now for me, this is what humility is.
Right.
So, uh, I've heard people talk about humility in a way that is basically
them talking down about themselves.
So for me to be humble, I have to say negative or bad things about myself,
but I'm not convinced that's what humility is, um, on any kind of level.
Now I'm not, you know, the Bible says we should think, think of ourselves, uh,
soberly, not more highly than we ought to, but think of ourselves soberly,
which is probably a great expression.
But humility is not me saying I'm rubbish.
Um, humility is me saying, I feel this way about myself, but
that's not the way God sees me.
So humility is seeing something not as you want to see it,
but seeing it as God sees it.
Absolutely.
You know, the example of going back to the co worker, co worker, God would ask for
you to give grace to that co worker, even though you might want your pound of flesh.
Well, humility is saying, not my will, but your will be done, right?
It's saying, God, I'll do it your way.
But conversely, when it comes to yourself, humility is not necessarily...
Saying negative things or bad things about you.
Humility is saying what God says about you.
That's right.
Jan Burch: Do you know what I mean?
Yeah.
And I, I much prefer that I actually annoys me when people
are self-deprecating at times.
Mm.
And I, I can do it.
That's what annoys me about myself.
It's actually, you know, it, it just doesn't.
The atmosphere is not great when people are saying, Oh, I'm so
rubbish, um, I failed again, um, you know, I can't do anything.
Well, you know, it's, it's almost like you've got to nip that in the bud.
What you did wasn't the greatest thing, but let's move on.
You are actually great.
You know, most of the time you are kind, you're loving, you're,
you know, you're very respectful.
So it's getting it into perspective.
And, you know, God, God doesn't wash his hands of us, does he?
When we, you know, very grateful that he doesn't.
Me too.
Yeah.
We wouldn't be here, would we?
Matt Edmundson: The thing about forgiveness is, you know, when God
forgives you of your sin, one could argue that God did that 2, 000 years ago, right?
So you've already been forgiven of the sin that you are asking
God for forgiveness for.
You know, I appreciate the semantics and there's different
ways theologically to look at this.
But one of the things that happens is when you go to God to confess
your sin, And he forgives you.
The question always then is, do you receive that in the sense that if
he forgives you, you're no longer worthless, you're no longer a failure.
Do you know what I mean?
This is all the self talk that we bring to it.
Actually, what God says is, no, you're righteous.
You're made whole in Christ, you know, you are a new creation, all
things possible to him who believes.
We're not, you know, in him we're more than conquerors, you know, by
grace you are saved and we could just go on and on and talk about
all the things that God says.
And so forgiveness often for me is the reconciling back of my
vision or my understanding of my own self in relation to God.
Now I appreciate that there is sin and that sin is evil, evil.
And in sin, no good thing can dwell, right?
Um, and I'm not justifying or excusing any kind of sin in me, but I'm also
aware of God's reconciliation, um, and his ability to, uh, to change my
life, you know, and bring around that.
I think when we get to heaven.
Um, you know, we pray the Lord's Prayer, don't we?
Yeah.
Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Yeah.
Quite often I find myself wondering what it's like in heaven.
Yeah, I do.
Um, because if I'm praying, you know, your kingdom come, your will
be done on earth as it is in heaven.
It's like I'm praying for that now.
Yeah.
To experience that now here on earth.
I don't know what heaven's actually like.
No.
And I don't, I don't think there's a lot of complaining in heaven.
I think there's a lot of rejoicing.
I think there's a lot of praise.
I
Jan Burch: think, I think it's going to be.
Absolutely amazing.
I think, um, you know, it's just going to be everything and more, you know.
Um, I've no idea what that really looks like.
I know there'll be people singing and it'll be peaceful and I
think there'll be beautiful.
Water and you know what?
I think what I'd like is, no, is wild animals roaming around, you know, like,
like we see cats and dogs in the street.
I think there'll be lions and things, tigers, that absolutely thrills
me, but then they won't kill me or, you know, cause I'll already
be dead, but there'll be tame.
If you know what I mean.
Matt Edmundson: Well, yeah, absolutely, it'd be like heaven on a big safari park.
Jan Burch: That's what I'm looking forward to.
Matt Edmundson: All I know, Jan, is I'm going to slide down those
streets of gold in my socks.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I'm just going to keep on going.
And we're going to have a sliding contest.
I think
Jan Burch: it's going to be great
Matt Edmundson: fun.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Nicola said here, when I was up last week, which she was in Liverpool, she was with
Sharon, and I put myself down quite badly.
Oh, here we go.
And Sharon said, don't talk about my friend like that.
That's right.
And since then I've been a bit more careful about how I talk about me.
Yeah, absolutely, Nicola.
Don't talk about my friend like that.
Love that though.
Sharon's got on this.
Sharon's my wife, by the way.
Go on, Shazza.
Yeah, she won't let you talk to herself like that.
No, absolutely.
She's not a fan of it.
So, what time is it?
Goodness me.
Time is flying by at a million miles an hour.
Anything else in your notes in the closing minutes?
Jan Burch: Um, I just think, um, what Chris said, our actions and our
behaviours then open up the doorway for us to be able to share our faith.
Yeah.
Um, there's, I think, so many people saying, oh, I really...
I really struggle to tell, they know I'm a Christian at work on
my neighbours, but I find it hard to, um, to go the step further.
Um, but I, I just think it's about spending time with people.
Um, yeah, where, you know, in work, you might only have 10 minutes
here and there or on your break or, but I think I think it's okay to.
You know, meet up with people for a coffee at work and just get to
know them, let them get to know you.
And then I think naturally then, you know, what did you do at the weekend?
Um, what's going on in your family, you know, you know, just being real, being
honest about sharing, letting people in.
And I think, um, as we do that more, then the conversation will change.
You know, it'll get a bit more, a bit deeper, it'll, it will be about God.
Yeah.
Not all the time, you know, but I think, I think of, you know,
it's like laying the foundation.
Yeah, it is.
Um, and then building those relationships.
Matt Edmundson: Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Very good.
Well, how was your, uh, we've got a few minutes before I need to say
goodbye, I'm just kind of curious.
How was your first time?
Jan Burch: I really enjoyed it.
Yeah.
Matt Edmundson: It's amazing how quick it goes, isn't it?
Yeah.
Thanks for coming to Crowd.
Oh, thank you.
And it says here in my notes, and correct me if I'm wrong, Jan,
but you're hosting next week.
I am, with you.
Jan Burch: Is it you again?
Is it me and you again
Matt Edmundson: next week?
I think so.
Fab.
This is just the warm up.
Next week's going to be even better.
Yeah.
Got more jokes coming next week.
It's John Harding next week.
It is.
Yeah.
It is.
You're right.
Look
Jan Burch: at that.
I've done my homework.
Matt Edmundson: Showing me up now because I obviously clearly
haven't done my homework.
I do it on the fly as we're looking at these things now.
Yes, that's it.
Next week we have John Harding speaking, carrying on our book, carrying on
our journey through the Book of Acts.
We've got Paul's farewell speech next week.
Then after that we've got Anna Kettle speaking.
We've got, uh, I'm doing one, Sharon's doing one, we've got Pete
Farrington, and then it's Christmas.
Hooray!
Christmas!
I'm starting to feel, I'm starting to feel a little bit Christmassy now.
Oh yeah.
Yeah, I'm not getting, I'm not getting too into it just yet, but I'm starting to
feel a little bit Christmassy, which is...
Do you like Christmas, Matt?
I proper love it.
Yeah,
Jan Burch: I do as well.
Proper love Christmas.
I like the lights and music.
Matt Edmundson: The magic of it, the magic of Christmas.
Yeah.
Um, yeah, I, we, it's our, Josh's birthday late November, so we
tend not to think about Christmas until we've got through that.
Until that's done, yeah.
So, in December we'll be, I'll be wearing the Christmas jumpers, no doubt.
Of
Jan Burch: which you have, you've got a few, haven't you?
I've got a fair few
Matt Edmundson: of the Christmas jumpers, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I've not bought one for a few years, um, it's sort of put a
moratorium on me buying, uh, more Christmas jumpers because, you know,
frankly, I've got 4, 000 of them.
But yeah, so we've got all that coming up.
So yeah, do come and join Jan and myself.
Next week, uh, as we convert, uh, as we converse, uh, about John Harding's talk,
I have no idea what I'm talking about.
Jan Burch: Yeah, I'll, I'll be here to, uh, just keep it all safe and
running smoothly and watching, Matt.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, keep the ship moving forward.
That's, uh, that's what we have here.
You're frightening me now.
Yeah.
Frightening myself, if I'm honest with you.
That's okay.
Uh, coming up next week, we've talked about Promote the Zoom.
Yes, if you would like to join us.
Uh, midweek, we have midweek groups online that do, uh, community online.
If you'd like to know more about that, do get in touch with us.
Uh, you can find out more information on the website, which
has just come up on the screen.
If you're watching the video, www.
crowd.
church, if you're listening to the audio, or you can reach out to us
on social media at Crowd Church, uh, that's also on your screen.
Uh, and we would love to hear from you.
I'll let you know the zoom links and all that sort of stuff.
Just get in touch with us.
Um, and we would love to hear from you.
You can also reach out to us, uh, if you have any prayer requests, we've had people
emailing us this week, uh, and people can WhatsApp us, the WhatsApp number's on the
website, we have people connecting with us via WhatsApp, uh, which is always great
from around the world, always love getting those messages, uh, so yes, you can
reach out to us through the website, www.
crowd.
church, or via social media, at Crowd Church, we would love to hear from you.
Thank you.
That's it from me.
That's it from Jan.
I'm just going through the comments.
I think I've got them all.
I think I have.
Uh, so I'm gonna click this button on here.
Anything else from you in closing?
No,
Jan Burch: just thanks.
Thanks for having me.
It's
Matt Edmundson: been great.
Show your love for Jan.
All right.
We'll see you later.
Have a great week.
Cheers, guys.
Thank you so much for joining us here on Crowd Church.
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It has been Awesome to connect with you and you are awesome.
It's just a burden you have to bear and hopefully we'll see you next time.
That's it from us.
God bless you.
Bye for now.