Mike Griswold [00:00:00]:

There is a lot of uncertainty. There's going to continue to be uncertainty. And I think the stronger supply chains are going to try to figure out just in general, how do we deal with uncertainty and how might we react to some of these different scenarios because unfortunately, I don't see necessarily this tariff activity slowing down.

Scott Luton [00:00:24]:

Welcome to Supply Chain Now the number one voice of Supply Chain. Join us as we share critical news, key insights and real supply chain leadership from across the globe, one conversation at a time. Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, everybody, wherever you may be. Scott Luton and always special guest Mike Griswold here with you on Supply Chain Now. Welcome to today's show. Hey, Mike, how you doing today?

Mike Griswold [00:00:49]:

I'm doing well, Scott. Great to see you. Great to be here again. Looking forward, I know we've got a really good agenda. Looking forward to the conversation today.

Scott Luton [00:00:57]:

I'm with you. Now. We've got a high bar to somersault over because we got a lot of great feedback over our last show where we got three movies from you that unwittingly taught us supply chain lessons. That was a great episode, my friend.

Mike Griswold [00:01:15]:

Yeah, it was good. I mean, I think it's given all the things that are going on, Scott, I think it's good every once in a while to take maybe a more humorous, maybe non traditional approach to supply chain topics and just give people a different way to think about the supply chain.

Scott Luton [00:01:32]:

Oh, I love it. I love it. So hey folks out there, we're setting our own standards. We're gonna try hard to deliver each and every month. And we got a great show here today. Of course, today we're continuing one of our longest running and most popular series, Supply Chain today and tomorrow with the one and only Mike Griswold with Gartner. So Mike, of course served as vice president analyst with Gartner. And as I mentioned, we've got a great show today.

Scott Luton [00:01:57]:

We're checking in with some of the high performance supply chain organizations that are part of the Gartner top 25 from the 2024 rankings. The new rankings are right around the corner, so stay tuned to walk through an outstanding discussion with Mike G. Okay, so Mike, we're going to start with the fundamental question before we get to, let's see, I think we got four stories and then a special event at the end. We're going to make sure folks are aware of, but we're going to start with one of your favorite topics, golf. Now as we're recording this, it's Masters week here around the World and certainly here in Georgia as we record this podcast. And you know what? TV screens everywhere, starting with, well, probably already on Wednesday, but certainly by round one, TV screens everywhere will be filled with start to finish coverage. As well as those lovely pine trees that's producing all the pollen, Azeleas dogwoods, all that green grass that's gorgeous. It's very serene golf.

Scott Luton [00:02:55]:

But, Mike, question for you. What's been one of your favorite moments from the Masters, which of course is held just down the road in Augusta, Ga.

Mike Griswold [00:03:04]:

I, I think probably a few years ago when Bubba Watson won and he had that incredible shot from off the fairway in the trees for him, I think he had to hook it for us, it would have been a slice, but that shot that allowed him to kind of win the Masters. I think Bubba is, I think, a very interesting character, a very interesting golfer. He's got a very interesting story. I think it's unfortunate from the standpoint of him moving to the LIV Tour that we don't get to see as much of him as we probably would like. You know, he'll be around, I believe, for the Masters. But that's one of my memories is, is just how he competed in that tournament. And then that shot that he hit was, you know, I think there's been a lot of people who, if you're fortunate enough to play at Augusta, probably try to go over there, drop their ball and see if they could recreate it. And my guess is not many people are able to do that.

Mike Griswold [00:04:08]:

So that's one of my memories. That's a great question.

Scott Luton [00:04:11]:

That's a good one. And that, of course, that victory. All victories are a little bit the same and a lot different oftentimes. And that one meant a lot to him personally. I think he had just lost his mother to cancer, as I recall. But that's a great one, Mike. And you know, the one that came to my mind as we were getting ready for the show here today isn't this. It's not a Master's memory, but, you know, Tiger woods is an icon when it comes to our generation's view of all things professional golf.

Scott Luton [00:04:41]:

And a couple years ago, I'm not sure the year, but when he came back after years of struggle and injuries and all this stuff, and he won with that legion of fans behind him, I think it was at East Lake, and he finally came back and climbed all the way up top of the mountain. That was Must See tv. That was Must See TV for sure.

Mike Griswold [00:05:02]:

And I think, you know, it's, you know, I Think everyone wishes him the best. It is recovery. I don't think anyone knows when or if we'll see him again on the golf course. So cherishing those, those tiger memories are good. They're, they're a good thing to be able to reflect on.

Scott Luton [00:05:20]:

Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. Okay, Mike, we got a lot to get into here today. Uh, there's no shortage of topics. And before we get to work in, checking in on a few supply chain leaders in the Gartner top 25 and what they've been up to, I want to check in briefly because this could be a three hour question on your observations related to what some are calling the tariff again, that's going on. So, again, no need for a deep dive because, you know, frankly, we're all still waiting for a lot more details to come out so we can really understand what we're up against. But Mike, on the heels of the massive tariff package that the White House rolled out on what it called Liberation Day, what are you seeing out there?

Mike Griswold [00:06:04]:

I think it's, it's one of those things, Scott, where there is probably the, the law of unintended consequences at play here. I think that, you know, people have speculated and tried to kind of scenario the impact that tariffs would have. I don't know that we necessarily, we're thinking the impact in the stock market as an example. So for me, similar, I think, to what we've talked about in the past, it really is about organizations ability to kind of look at multiple scenarios that could be a byproduct of these tariffs and think about what courses of action do I need to take based on those scenarios to move my supply chain forward. We'll touch a little bit, I think, on this with the J and J example later. Right. And some of the decisions they've made about localizing manufacturing as an example. I think the challenge, and I wish I had a great answer for folks, the challenge is I don't know that we know when these are going to end and we also don't know how other countries are going to necessarily respond as these things continue to get rolled out.

Mike Griswold [00:07:16]:

So there is a lot of uncertainty. There's going to continue to be uncertainty and I think the stronger supply chains are going to try to figure out just in general, how do we deal with uncertainty and how might we react to some of these different scenarios? Because unfortunately, I don't see necessarily this tariff activity slowing down.

Scott Luton [00:07:40]:

Yeah. As you were sharing your opinion there, we rely on so many countless inputs that go into global supply chains everywhere. But Certainty and more certainty is one of the most valued inputs. So we're gonna wait for the next several shoes to drop and then we'll dive in, I'm sure, in countless more conversations. So appreciate you what you shared there, Mike. On to better and brighter news perhaps. So, folks, the release of the 2025 version of the Gartner supply chain top 25 is just around the corner. So with that as a background, I want to check in to some of the headlines when it comes to a few of the supply chain leaders that were named in last year's the 2024 version of the top 25.

Scott Luton [00:08:26]:

So, Mike, up first, we're going to talk about our friends over at Schneider Electric. Now, they came in at number one, the top rank. They were the Ric Flair of the Gartner supply chain top 25 in 2024. Some of y'all may know that wrestling analogy there. Ric Flair won the world championship title 57 times. So number one, that's where that came from anyway. So, Mike, as reported by data center magazine, Schneider Electric is Planning to invest $700 million into its U. S.

Scott Luton [00:09:03]:

Operations over the next couple of years. The main objective is to be able to meet rising demand, especially for its data centers business, which, given the immense increase in the usage of AI, that is a critical line of business fast growing, too. Now, AI, of course, has largely changed the game in a wide variety of ways, including when it comes to data centers and power grids everywhere. So the 700 million bucks will be used largely to expand factories and develop the Schneider Electric workforce. Get this. The company's also developing a neat solution called one digital grid platform, which its objective is to help utility and energy companies optimize their grid performance, given the heightened load and overall demand. North America. Here's a Did you know North America is indeed Schneider Electric's biggest market? The region is responsible for about 36% of its revenue as of 2024 and operates more than 20 smart factories and distribution centers currently across the U.S.

Scott Luton [00:10:06]:

where it employs about 21,000 people. Mike, your thoughts on what we're seeing with Schneider Electric here?

Mike Griswold [00:10:12]:

Yeah, when we look at the kind of the attributes of a top 25 company, one of the things that Schneider does well is they've clearly identified the role of their supply chain. If you think about companies, they can put their supply chain in kind of one of three buckets, right? It's kind of a cost. I have to have it. It can be one of several differentiators, or it can be my competitive weapon, my differentiator between my competition in the market and I think Schneider has chosen the latter. They see their supply chain as a competitive weapon. They continue to invest in it. You mentioned kind of the AI and the smart factories. They've been looking and iterating on that for a number of years.

Mike Griswold [00:11:03]:

But they also, as we get to spend time with them, talking through how they approach the top 25, they invest a lot in their people, both from an upskilling perspective but also from the perspective of how do we use technology to make their lives easier and better. So they are a great example of a company that kind of knows what they want to be when they grow up, knows how the supply chain is going to get them from point A to point B. And I think the last thing that I think we in general really appreciate about Schneider is they do have a vision, they have a multi year vision that says that this is how we want our supply chain to support our growth and enable our innovation. And I think that's what separates it is some of the same elements that we'll talk about with J and J and with Pepsi is using that, using their respective supply chains to drive growth and support innovation. And that's what really separates those, Those leading top 25 companies from everybody else.

Scott Luton [00:12:16]:

Love that. Appreciate your insights there and especially I love how you basically deem them powerful supply chain visionary and they understand and know how to leverage their supply chain organization for big, big competitive advantage. So good stuff. We're gonna keep our finger on the pulse of the current top, still top ranked Gartner Top 25 supply chain organization. So stay tuned. Now we're going to shift over Mike to the pharmaceutical industry and as you mentioned, we're going to talk about J and J. Now Johnson Johnson came in at number five on the 2024 Gartner Top 25. And according to Supply Chain Dive, the company is increasing its investment in North America with a keen focus on the US market.

Scott Luton [00:12:59]:

Now J&J plans to spend some $55 billion over the next four years focusing a lot of those dollars on manufacturing R and D and technology. A lot of that money will be supporting three advanced manufacturing facilities here in the U.S. in fact, J&J recently broke ground on a new 500,000 square foot biologics manufacturing facility in Wilson, North Carolina. Many big pharma companies are seeking to expand their U.S. operations as well. Now for a short list of reasons and probably plenty more, but a couple we're going to identify here. Number one, there's been a big rising demand for a wide variety of pharmaceutical Products. Right.

Scott Luton [00:13:39]:

So demand's up. Secondly, of course, back to tariffs. These planned tariffs on products made overseas and imported to the US Was prompting a lot of drug makers to gain more production capacity in the US to avoid all that. And then thirdly, that some folks may not be as aware of, many industry insiders say that pharma companies are hoping to gain some goodie points or some leverage or some influence with the White House, which might help it shape industry policies in the coming months, such as extending some of those powerful tax cuts. That has really helped a lot of companies in the industry. Mike, your thoughts on what we're seeing on this big investment with J and.

Mike Griswold [00:14:20]:

J. Yeah, I think this is a great example of an organization that has taken a holistic view of their supply chain and of their footprint and has done a really good job of understanding kind of short to medium to long term ramifications of the design of their network and responding accordingly. I think this idea that there has been, even before the administration change, there was already talk about bringing things closer to the United States and in the United States in terms of manufacturing on the life sciences side and in other industries. I think you aren't able to do that unless you've got some skills and some acumen in this area of network design and being able to model different supply chains both locally and globally and understanding where does it make sense, where's the most effective way and location to make stuff, to ship stuff and to sell stuff. So I give J&J a lot of credit of in some ways being slightly ahead of the curve around recognizing the requirement to bring things locally. I think it will help them. Again, to our earlier conversation, no one has a crystal ball about how long and the depth of these tariffs, but the more that companies can start to explore bringing things back into the United States. You also mentioned Scott, it's a great way to be more responsive to demand.

Mike Griswold [00:15:58]:

Right. Being able to match demand and supply a little bit more effectively if you're, if you have operations closer to manufacturing. So, you know, J.J. has always been looked at within life sciences and even outside the life sciences industry as someone who really is a forward thinker. And I think this is just another example of them potentially reading the tea leaves a little bit sooner than others and being able to respond to that.

Scott Luton [00:16:30]:

Good stuff, Mike. Good stuff. One of the things I heard in your comments there, ecosystem wide thinking, very holistic and moving, being first movers. It's one of the last things you touched on there. Here's an interesting thought. So I mentioned Wilson North Carolina, that's one. That's where they're standing up, that new one of their new plants. Did you know that the famed Single A minor league baseball team, AKA the Carolina Mud Cats, they're going to be calling Wilson home in 2026.

Scott Luton [00:17:05]:

So how about that, Mike? All right, so let's shift over from minor league baseball to supply chain news with an agricultural twist. So, Mike, get this. PepsiCo comes in at lucky number 13 on the Gartner Top 25 list from 2024. Now, as reported by, let's see here. So as reported by sustainability magazine, PepsiCo is making investments in its efforts to optimize supply chain traceability and as well as adopt more and more regenerative agriculture. Now, just what the heck is that, you might ask? Well, regenerative agriculture is a more holistic approach to farming and the overall food system where it's meant to drive a variety of outcomes. And it kind of depends on who you talk to here. But one of the core principles is enhancing soil soil health and soil biological life.

Scott Luton [00:17:58]:

This focus on soil health is something it has in common with its cousin, I'll call it its cousin, organic farming. However, organic farming doesn't allow some of the products that regenerative farming uses. So one of the big early wins thus far, Mike, in this initiative at PepsiCo has been the delivery of 4,000 tons of sunflower oil that was produced using verified regenerative practices in Argentina. Now, for farmers, I love this little point here. For farmers, regenerative agriculture, when verified, is said to be able to add 1 to 2% premium on the prices of their sunflower crops. I love that. Lots and lots of benefits all the way around. So we'll see where it goes from here.

Scott Luton [00:18:40]:

Mike, your thoughts on regenerative agriculture and supply chain?

Mike Griswold [00:18:45]:

It's definitely, Scott, something that is, you know, we're seeing more and more people look at that. We talked, I think last year with Diageo as part of their top 25 work around some of the things they're doing with agave plants and tequila. So there is definitely, I think, a lot of interest in the consumer products industry around this regenerative agriculture. The other element in that story was around traceability. And that, Scott, I think, is what you highlighted very well around the ability, the traceability and the verification allows suppliers to be able to place that premium because now the consumer knows where it came from and there is an element of trust and certification there. I think this is another example we mentioned at the tail end of the J and J discussion around this idea of ecosystems. But that is something that Pepsi has done very, very well forever. If you think about, you know, if we were to get in the Wayback Machine and we talk about early DSD direct store delivery, right.

Mike Griswold [00:20:00]:

Of Pepsi products, they were a pioneer at the retail level in collaborating with retailers around that service. And when you talk to retailers and you ask them who are some of your best vendors and suppliers to actually collaborate with Pepsi, almost always near the top of the list. So I think for them they have this idea of collaboration and this idea of an ecosystem relationship in their DNA. It's not surprising that they would expand this out into the production more of the raw material element of their ecosystem. And they've always been a very kind of supplier focused within their own ecosystem. Right. And treating their suppliers very well, partnering with their suppliers very well, deploying technology across, across the ecosystem to provide things like visibility and as we're hearing here, partnering with Syngenta and things like traceability. So as I, as you sent across these articles, it didn't surprise me at all the work that Pepsi is doing because that's, you know, that that ecosystem work, that that focus on the planet work is something that's very, very important to them.

Scott Luton [00:21:23]:

Love it. You conjure up the image of a very forward looking, progressive approach to supply chain management and really creating an ecosystem where all the residents within it can really win and do good business. So I love that. Mike. Hey, here's a little side note folks. I am not a culinary expert. Amanda, who's helping us produce today's podcast is. So when I saw sunflower oil, I was like, well, what I wonder what they use sunflower oil for at PepsiCo.

Scott Luton [00:21:54]:

Well, it's been reported that a company uses sunflower oil to make some of its chips such as Lays. You can't eat just one. Remember that chip because the oil, not only is it, can it be used with modern farming, light regenerative agriculture, but sunflower oil is also considered to be more heart healthy than many other oils out on the market. So really a win, win, win on a variety of levels.

Mike Griswold [00:22:18]:

I guess that means we could have a couple more chips then.

Scott Luton [00:22:20]:

That's right. All right, see, where are we going from here? We're going to kind of wrap on a fun note here because it's kind of like an episode with some of Mike Griswold's favorites. And next we're going to be talking about basketball, right? We've talked about golf, we've talked about supply chain, now we're talking basketball. Especially at the intersection of Final Four and in logistics, I'll call it. So congrats to the UConn Huskies and the Florida Gators on their championships in the women's and men's tourney, respectively. What an incredible addition To March Madness 2025 brought us. So I read this article from our friends at First Call Logistics, which I think is based in Indianapolis. I read it the other week.

Scott Luton [00:23:05]:

It focused on the logistics of the Final Fours, right? So Mike, get this, those last minute NCAA tournament invites, well, it's probably home run stuff for TV audiences everywhere, right? But as they lay out, quote, it inevitably forces many universities into a last minute logistical scramble, end quote. I mean, think of all the enormous transportation and overall logistics plans. Flights, buses, hotels, lots of food, talking about, you know, world class athletes, all that equipment, all those plans got to be created, implemented and managed for the most part without the luxury of tons of lead time. Because even if you've won a bunch of games and know you're going, your destination may be altered at the last minute. And here's a Did you know it's from the Article 2 quote. With a 9,000 pound weight restriction on charter flights and limited space on team buses, teams frequently leverage expedited ground options like straight trucks and sprinter vans to ensure critical game day cargo arrives without delay. Now, one last thing here, Mike, and I think sometimes when our teams lose, we forget about all the other positives, especially from a business standpoint, because when it all comes together, it creates an incredible economic whirlwind. For example, just the 2024 women's Final Four in Cleveland alone, right? Last year it injected $32.9 million.

Scott Luton [00:24:35]:

And that's in direct spending. Direct, not indirect, that's direct spending into the broader Northeast Ohio region. So I can only imagine, hopefully San Antonio and Tampa or were big winners this year. So Mike, when you think of, and you know, as a longtime basketball coach, you may know a lot more about some of the considerations for basketball logistics than a lot of us out here. But what comes to mind when you think about the logistics that power the NCAA tournaments?

Mike Griswold [00:25:04]:

I think, Scott, you, you summed it up quite well. I mean, we see the finished product on the, on tv, right? We don't necessarily see how, how all the, the moving parts happen. There. There is, I think to some degree the, the words we've used in the past around flexibility and responsiveness. Those are the two words that, that these schools have to be able to, to execute against the women have it a little bit easier. And the reason I Say, that is on the. The. The top four seeds in each of the regions they get to host at home.

Mike Griswold [00:25:41]:

So UConn, as an example, the first round games were in Storrs, Connecticut. So the logistics for them early isn't quite as daunting as, say, some of the other schools. Now, if we stay with the women, UConn did have some significant travel challenges as they ended up in Spokane, Washington, for that region and had a game Monday night and then needed to be in Tampa to play a game on. On Friday. So the men, on the other hand, that is what I would best describe as probably organized chaos. Right. We had. We have the reveal on Sunday.

Mike Griswold [00:26:21]:

We now have, as some people may or may not know, we have those first four games on Tuesday.

Scott Luton [00:26:27]:

Right.

Mike Griswold [00:26:27]:

Now, we do know those are going to be in Dayton, Ohio. But then if you win that game, right, you then have to turn around and be ready to play either three Thursday or Friday. So there are significant logistics challenges for these schools to get from point A to point B. And it is often you think about, well, what do they need? They just need some basketballs. Well, there's other equipment. You know, whether it's technology equipment, video equipment there. There's other things that have to make it from point A to point B. So it is.

Mike Griswold [00:27:03]:

And I think the last thing I'll say is there is no. There's no margin for error. Right. UConn had to be in Tampa for Friday. Teams have to be in those locations, you know, by certain days and times. So there isn't. There isn't any flexibility around being late or missing kind of delivery windows. Everything has to happen exactly when it's.

Mike Griswold [00:27:29]:

When it's scheduled. So it is a huge. There. Someone could probably make a lot of money with some type of Netflix documentary on, you know, the life of a basketball through the NCAA tournament in terms of where it goes.

Scott Luton [00:27:44]:

Oh, no doubt. What a great idea. I'm gonna work on a script right away. Mike, you can be our executive producer. You know, it is really the unheralded heroes, all the team managers and all the operations folks and, of course, logistics folks and all the service providers that go in and be able to make this happen. Because to your point, unlike so many other things in this consumer journey we're on, we can deal with late holiday gifts, and we can deal with, you know, having to get 2% milk versus whole milk or whatever, but the team's got to be there on time and in full if they want to buy for this championship. And everything's got to be perfect and of course, safe.

Mike Griswold [00:28:25]:

Right.

Scott Luton [00:28:25]:

That's the other thing.

Mike Griswold [00:28:25]:

Right.

Scott Luton [00:28:26]:

We're not, we're not moving around cartons of socks and stuff. These are, you know, lots of travel with precious human cargo. So. Mike, I love your perspective and I'll tell you. Hey, what about your, your basketball season this year? Did it, was it earlier this year or is it coming up?

Mike Griswold [00:28:43]:

No, we ended in February, Scott, thanks for asking. We finished second in the district championship. We made the state tournament. Didn't go quite as far as we would have liked. We played two really good teams, played probably our two best games of the season in those two. In those two games didn't, you know, didn't end the way we wanted, but we were really happy with how we played and how the team kind of came together. So overall it was, overall it was a very good experience.

Scott Luton [00:29:12]:

Mike, I'm going to have to track down some pictures of you in action. Right. Coaching and marshaling the team. We'll have to make that happen. But until then, there's one other thing I want to wrap on. We've got a big opportunity coming up, big event coming up. Our friends at Gartner, of course, they've got the Gartner Supply chain Symposium coming up, folks. It is set for May 5th through the 7th in beautiful Orlando, Florida.

Scott Luton [00:29:38]:

As they say here on this graphic in front of us, 4,000 of our supply chain peers are attending. Hey, will you. Well, Supply Chain Now is pleased to serve as an official media partner for this home run event in 2025. I think this will be my third or fourth time coming up. There's few events like it and we're going to be interviewing supply chain rock stars over the course of three very full jam packed days. So stay tuned for all of that. Mike, I ask you this a lot, but mainly because now that events in person, events are back, thankfully with, you know, like never before, perhaps, there's tons, you know, we can only go to so many events each year, but this one is a very unique, what I'll put the shining city on the hill type of event. Why? What would be your.

Scott Luton [00:30:27]:

If you had to boil it down to one or two reasons, why should folks consider the symposium?

Mike Griswold [00:30:31]:

Yeah, I think the first reason we hear all the time, you know, it's 4,000 supply chain professionals. Probably no better networking opportunity to meet and hear from peers, many of which are wrestling with the same things that you are as a supply chain professional. I think the other element is we do, I think, an excellent job of providing content at multiple levels, the strategic level, the tactical level to really let people know kind of what's on the horizon as well as how to deal with the here and the now. So the networking, the diverse set of content, those are probably the two biggest reasons we would encourage people to attend.

Scott Luton [00:31:18]:

Those events so folks don't miss out. There's still plenty of time to register and I'm telling you, been there, done it. I think this is my fourth time coming up and it is an outstanding, outstanding show. So lots of market intel, lots of movers and shakers and lots of also those non supply chain conversations between the days and at nights and early morning. So folks take advantage. Great opportunity. Okay Mike, we have covered a lot of ground today. Really have enjoyed your perspective once again.

Scott Luton [00:31:49]:

I can go back and count the shows we've done together, but one of big thanks share A big thanks to Mike Griswold, Vice President Analyst with Gartner. How can folks track you down, Mike?

Mike Griswold [00:31:59]:

LinkedIn or just drop me an email mike.griswold@gartner.com it is just that easy my friend.

Scott Luton [00:32:06]:

Well, we've made it through the pollen tried to stop us right all the science issues that that brings but really have enjoyed your perspective and I'm looking forward to next month already. So big thanks Mike Griswold. Folks, hope you've enjoyed this conversation as as much as I have, but you've got some homework, right? You got to take one thing from Mike here today, share it with your team, put it into practice, be one of those powerful supply chain visionaries that Mike was was naming certain organizations. That should be something we all aspire to be, right? Lots of opportunities out there to change how supply chains happen both today and tomorrow. But it's powered by deeds, not words. So with all that said, Scott here, Scott Luton here, challenging you to do good, give forward, be the change that's needed. We'll see you next time right back here on Supply Chain Now. Thanks everybody.

Scott Luton [00:32:58]:

Join the Supply Chain Now community. For more supply chain perspectives, news and innovation, check out supplychainnow.com subscribe to Supply Chain Now on YouTube and follow and listen to Supply Chain Now. Wherever you get your podcasts.