📍 Welcome back to the Toxin Freeish podcast. Thank you. We are not in my home studio. We're in New York City. Amazing. Amazing. Yeah, we're in the same city. You're in America. That's right. Yeah. This is reality. This is reality. Yeah, and we planned this like a week ago. And then, and you just made it happen like this.

I made it happen. It all fell together. So Michael, you're the founder of a zomi, which you were on the podcast about a year ago. Yeah. You are one of the only completely 100% organic cotton plant dy, textile fed shit. Yeah. I mean, mouthful. Although it's a mouthful. And one of my favorites, I talk about you all the time.

In the last year, what has a zomi been up to? One amazing thing we did was meeting you in Minnesota. We did this healthy. Threat summit in Minnesota with the very cool people from the, uh, taxi. What, what Taxi Freeish to Yeah. No, the store. Taxi free. Taxi free. Taxi free, yeah. Yep. Taxi free. Uh, Laura And be, they're amazing.

And then we had all these like journalists and all wicker and like really. Giants of sort of the industry coming there and like these whistleblowers from 3M and I mean, it was really, really cool. And that was one of the amazing things, um, that we did in the last year where we could really feel like suddenly there was like a room of like more than a hundred people.

Yeah. And everybody was like, yes, this is important. And it was in TV as well, so that was really cool. We've done a few other cool things. I think one of the most amazing things that I would like to report is that, um, we are actually doing pretty well as a company, which is nice. That's fantastic. This is not the case for the last eight years.

Yeah. I mean, I think something you're trying to do something that nobody's ever done before, so that's hard. Yeah, maybe some, and maybe it's the time or I don't know, but it's finally starting to really work out and yeah, and that's, it's good for my mental health as well. Well, I got to meet you in person for the first time in Minnesota for the Healthy Threads Summit and Alden Wicker, who wrote the book to book to Die for was there.

It was incredible meeting her. The owners of Taxi Free were so fantastic, and there also was the parents of Amara. Mm-hmm. You know, Minnesota, where we were is one of the first states to pass significant PFAS legislation. Yeah. It actually just went into effect earlier this year, I believe. And it was surprising to everyone that Minnesota would be the state to kind of come out and say, you cannot add PFAS to, and the list was long.

Mm. Very, very, very long. And it was because am Omar's parents. Lobbied and fought for that. Yeah. And you got to meet them too while we were there. Yeah, I, yeah, I spoke with them and, you know, it's kind of, um, you know, sometimes, I mean, we, we are doing this because it's, it, it became a real thing for me when my mother was sick and I just realized, oh, you know, Texas can have an effect on a, on a body.

You know, my mother wasn't healthy, but, you know, and then of course sometimes you forget you're in all this like, sustainable, blah, blah, blah, whatever. And you know, people, it's very self-congratulatory. Yes. And then, you know, when you, you realize, hey, you know, I mean, as you know, when you meet these parents, you realize, hey, you know, there are, we have these like weird high cancer rates.

There are immune disorder problems. We have a lot of, um, customers, I mentioned that before with MCS, with multiple chemical sensitivity or TSW uh, topical steroid withdrawal who are really, really sick. Like, and, and they. If we were lying to them, they would find out, like the next day they say, oh, I'm all like red and have rashes.

But to actually meet somebody or meet parents whose daughter has, you know, died. And of course you don't know exactly what it is, but there is definitely a connection with the pfas in, uh, in the drinking water and also in the consumer product to me, like, and that the kind words that they had, FOSS. You know, it made me really tear up and go like, oh, it's like, oh, I, I didn't even, I, I think I just stumbled.

I didn't know what to say and yeah. And it's really amazing that they use probably, I mean, this immense pain that they have to push for better regulation and, you know, this regulation is what really I. You know, I think what we often talk to is that this is the whole issue. That all the, all of this is allowed, right?

And there's no, absolutely no safety check. It's just, it is allowed and that's why it's done. So let's get out of our echo chamber for a little bit. Okay. Because you and I are in this field. This is what we do all day long. We talk about it, yeah. All day long. But my podcast listeners maybe don't necessarily understand why it's such a big deal.

So let's talk a little bit about what the problem is with the current textile industry. So. I think people are starting to realize and recognize polyester is plastic. Yeah. And it's terrible for us. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And then the secondary piece of that is what are the chemicals and the dyes that are being added to the polyester, which we are then wearing all day long, sleeping in our sheets all day long, using our towels all day long.

Right. We're. We have like all day, all the time. Constant exposure. And I do think people are becoming more aware, like you said, the community, the multiple chemical sensitivity community is starting to get really loud about our clothing and our textiles are completely unregulated and they're highly toxic.

Yeah. So if you're, you know, a business owner like you are, like you said, the last eight years have been kind of slow, but now people are starting to like. Catch steam and understand, oh, not only are there chemicals in my cleaning products mm-hmm. They're in my fragrance. But now I have to think about my linens.

Yeah. And my clothing. Another thing. Yeah. Yeah. It's just another thing to talk about and think about. But if you're talking to somebody who's at home listening, this may be for the first time. Yeah. What are some of the very basic things to take into consideration if you're somebody who does have rashes and allergies or eczema or psoriasis?

Or things like that. 'cause we're starting to see a lot of skin conditions. Yeah, I mean the, uh, WHO caused, um, you know, skin conditions, allergies, the major epidemic of, uh, this century. So it is a huge thing. And one, um, frustrating thing is that most of the time, you know, this will lead marketers to say like, oh, there's a skin cream.

Oh, there's this, there's something else you can buy. Instead of, let's look what you have. In your life that may cause these problems, rather than thinking you have a fundamental issue with your health and you need medicine, like that's this whole consumer narrative that is something else you should buy.

And you know, I, there are endless examples of parents that they, they see it on their children that's different than on your own body. And then they say, oh, what's going on with my children? And they switch to cotton or they switch to other materials and then the rashes disappear. And you know, this is sort of an immediate.

Thing. And most people when they're in the age, when they have kids, you know, when you're 20, like, I don't care. Whatever. I'm young, I'm healthy. The cheapest is good enough in for me, you are invincible. Like my teenagers, I always say, you think you're invincible. Yeah. But that, that soda you're drinking is gonna catch up to you.

And it's, yeah, it is not, but like if you, uh, it depends who I'm speaking to. If I'm speaking to somebody in my age, I would say, um, you know, you'll see it on your children and obviously it affects you as well. Plus, you know, to really drive it in this rash is just a sign that something is not. Well, it, you know, this can be a health issue much down the line much, much later.

You know, a lot of PFA, so a lot of like chemicals, asbestos, uh, things that just show up 15 years later, 20 years later. And, um, these things are not good for, for kids. Like po like polyester, a lot of these synthetic colors for Hyde, all commonly used in all textiles. They're not good. And there's not, there is no.

There's absolutely no proof that they're good. That's the crazy thing. Nobody has ever said, oh, it's good. They're just like, Ooh, completely unregulated. Yeah, so South Korea did that huge study on sheen and Timo and the number and the amount of chemicals like bad, nasty, gross, like lead heavy metal metals, phthalates, pfas, BPA, I mean, just smothered in it.

It's literally smothered in it, but we have this fast fashion. I want the $6 nail polish we call sheen and Temu like contraband in our house. Like my kids know like if you even dare try to order something from those companies. And I get asked a lot, well, why is that legal if there's so many bad things in textiles?

Why is it legal? And I get the same question about personal care products and fragrance and all of that. But what, what's the answer? Well, I can talk mostly about the US and Europe and the us The, the idea is innocent until proven guilty. Yeah. And the US companies can use, for example, much higher amounts of formaldehyde because the, you know, the.

The proof to saying, you know, this, you know, this, the, that cancer that that person had came from this chemical, um, cannot be given, you know, scientifically valid. But let's just, you know, I mentioned the word asbestos, and asbestos is not in, in, not in Textses, I know, but asbestos is just a, you know, a, a mineral that once it's in the air, it locks into your lungs and makes you sick and you'll get sick 20 years later.

And so. You know, I think that's one of the issues. Be very hard to, you know, do this. And this is just one, you know, one, one, uh, mineral. But there are 10,000 and more different kind of chemicals through this kind of like scientific explosion of working with plastics, with polymers. We just have all these chemicals and they're very hard to study like 20 years later.

Oh, this made you sick. But if you reverse it and say like, Hey, let's prove it's safe, you know, that's, that would be a much better bar to clear. Europe is a bit more on this side. On paper, Europe says you have, you know, there needs to be convincing a link between, uh, disease and, and health, and then it's regulated.

But in Europe that's, it's only 23. Different kinds of chemicals that are regulated in textiles and 23 more than in America, 23 more than in America, but like a little bit less formaldehyde and all that. But it's still, there are literally thousands of chemicals that very conservative. Scientists say like, you know, we really should study them before we put them in.

I think the last report I saw, there's 10,000 registered proprietary chemicals on the market. Yeah. And that means we don't even know what it is. Yeah, they're proprietary. Yeah. I mean, nobody knows. And to your point. We can just put them into our environment, into whatever and sell them. And the reason why it's so hard to prove that these are a problem is because you have your drinking water.

You have your diet, you have your clothing, you have your personal care products, you have your air pollution, you have your indoor air, you have all of these things that could potentially impact your health. You can't say, oh, it's that one thing. Mm-hmm. That increased my risk. Right. It's like this entourage effect.

And so what happens, and this is just in the chemical industry in general also, nobody's held responsible. Yeah. Then there's no regulation because if there's 10 things that cause cancer mm-hmm. Well, those 10 chemical companies get to sit in a room and go, not it. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And I think we have, you know, we live in this.

In this world where like the politics, they're very beholden to big companies saying, oh, you know, that would be bad for a profit line. Mm-hmm. And the regulations are like always, how low can they possibly be? Yeah. Um, and that's, you know, I think that's one of the huge issues. And you can see it like with, even with band chemicals, one of the best examples is Zody.

That's just a group of dyes that have irrefutably linked. To cancer, like story's over cause cancer very bad. Um, it's not illegal in America. Uh, it is illegal in Europe. However, every time any consumer agency does tests, they're used everywhere. They're all the time everywhere. Enclosed. I mean, I think the Swedish government did, uh, check in f hundred and 20% of the clothes that they checked.

So the problem is even when we decide this is bad, there is no enforcement. Like, and then there's no one checking. Yeah. And then the, the brand says like, oh, I'm just the brand. I'm not the manufacturer. Who's the manufacturer? We don't know. We bought it from like this guy and he bought it from this guy and this guy and the other side of the world.

That's the whole issue with, with this, like how this is, and it's really problematic if we don't wanna be too philosophical. So what you gonna do about it? Yeah. Like you as the consumer, you still, unless you decide full term nudist. Like you still need to wear clothes, you wanna wear clothes, and then how do you choose to choose something?

So let's go there. Let's go from the philosophical regulatory, let's get like if, if that's what you told me before we started, I did the podcast like let's be like on the ground level with people who are. Literally standing in Target or at a department store, or they're going online and they are like, okay, I want to have cleaner, safer clothes.

Yeah. By the way, it's a funny story and I think last week on the podcast I told it, but I took your sheets with me on my two week trip to Bali, and the internet lost their minds because. We were, I took a carry-on only. Yeah. And you know when you fly Emirates and you go all the way to Bali, you get one carry-on 15 pounds.

Yeah. And they're very serious about it. And of all the things like that I needed for that two week trip, like my a Zmi sheets. Did you just take the pillow or the whole set? I took the pillowcase. Yeah. And then I took the sheet, the top sheet. That's commitment. 'cause I can just lay that on top. Yeah. Um, but it is such a big deal to me.

I, on the last time I had you on the podcast, I shared that I have suffered from tin averse of color for a very, very long time. I have done all of the topical. Treatments. I have done all the things that every doctor has ever told me to do. Um, all the gut health stuff. Mm-hmm. Right. All the things that stress everyone says.

It's very stress related. And it wasn't until I started sleeping on your sheets that, I mean, I'm talking weeks. Yeah, like weeks it went away. And I'm very sensitive to like fabric softeners and laundry. So I was traveling with sheets Anyway, now I just travel with your sheets 'cause it's just not worth it to me to like.

Be on polyester, be on dyes, maybe have a skin condition, come back, maybe have a headache triggered. It's just not worth it to me. So yes, I prioritized my zomy sheets and my 15 pound carry on bag. Um, but it sparked a lot of conversation. Okay, so what are we supposed to buy? Mm-hmm. Like if we can't avoid.

Forward to buy like a hundred percent cotton organic cotton, right? Mm-hmm. Cotton certified, OCO tech certified plant-based dyes, and there's not a lot of options. You guys have great options, but for the regular consumer who's out there shopping, what are the things that they should. Look for and prioritize.

Yeah. So, um, I'm very happy to hear that. And, um, uh, you know, I, I just, um, it makes me happy to hear it, even though, you know, we hear it all the time from, from customers that we speak to, and I. If we are very anal with the whole production process, and it's very complicated for us to make the things, but we really want to know everything that goes in there.

And we wanna make sure that even people with who are going through chemotherapy and have absolutely no immune system anymore, you know, have, will not react to anything and that's in there any pollution. So, um, and I mean, you guys don't even use detergents. We don't use in the production process. No, we don't use of the co.

Which is crazy. Yeah, it's crazy that you found somebody willing to like change their process for you. Yeah. It's a negotiation. You gotta go to these, um, factories and what we always do, I think sort of our jokers always, they say like, yo, we have organic or whatever. And then we say, no, no, it's not about, you know, it's basically we say we don't care about the environment, the medical company.

And they go like, yeah, yeah. And then we show them pictures of, for example, people with severe eczema or. Tsw and it's like, these are our clients, like these are the people who buy from us. They have no, they cannot, like anything that's in there, they will react to it. So even if you tell us it's not in there and then it's in there, they'll find out, washes out.

No it doesn't. No it doesn't. Yeah, I'll write it in the contract. So because we say, I mean, and it's true, we are a medical company. We FDA regulated. Um, that we have, we can speak differently with the manufacturers in saying like, this is serious. It's not some marketing claim that we just wanna write somewhere to sell more stuff.

But yeah, you're saying, I mean, so I can tell you what I do. By the way, you asked me what's new. I have another daughter now that's new. Yes, I did know that. Yeah. Congratulations. Very blessed. Another one. Yeah. And you know, when you have. Like I am very sensitive when I see my kids being like, if they get whatever blankets and so on, like anything that's polyester, like I'm out right away.

And anything. So you don't own, there's nothing in your house that's polyester? I mean there probably is somewhere, but nothing that's, I mean somewhere, I don't know, under carpet or, but there's no. I, I don't think there's, I'm assuming you have your own bedsheets on every bed of Yeah, of course. But you know, there are, there are sometimes polyester seams and things if you really look edit.

But overall, there is nothing. There's no polyester blanket, no polyester clothes like polyester. I think plastic has its use, but not on garments and especially not on garments that touch your skin and especially, especially not on sensitive people. They are, um, they have all kinds of problems with, with polyester.

We have a new recent study, actually multiple studies. If you, if you go back over the last 20 years, multiple studies showing that polyester really impacts your hormones. Decreases. Fertility. Fertility, especially men. They showed a dramatic decrease in testosterone and the ability to get a woman pregnant, and then it took months, I mean, depending on the study that you look at.

But then the body, after you remove the polyester, it was polyester underwear, then the hormones came back up. So we do know that polyester does impact. Our hormones. Yeah, I think that's, I think everyone has kind of accepted that. I don't think it's become like mainstream, but I think everyone who's in the industry knows that.

And the thing that I want to just tell anybody who's like on the fence or should I care or not, like this is your health and your body and the reason why these companies market polyester to you, there's no other reason other than it's a very cheap material. So literally. You let people tell you, this is great for you and advertisement and whatever.

They have some celebrity promoting a product. It's a very cheap product and you are buying the cheapest product. Like you literally buying dog food, like, because you, it's dog food. It's good. Like don't, like, just don't buy polyester, um, on clothes that on your skin. You know, there's of course an argument for whatever rain jackets, but generally if you wear it on your skin, it shouldn't be polyester.

I think people have a hard time wrapping their head around that polyester. Is plastic. Yeah, right. Because I think people think plastic, like plastic bottles, water bottles or tubing, things that are made out of plastic. But when you go to Target and you go into their pajama section, which is very popular, and they have all these like silky smooth.

Yeah. Very comfortable. The pajamas. I think it's hard for just the population in general to wrap their head around. That's plastic. Yeah. Yeah. And the bed sheets, you know, with this like neon print for kids, they're terrible. You know, the thing is, clothes should help you to regulate your temperature. They should support your health.

That's literally why we have clothes, like supportive of your health and these, um. Polyester products, they don't do, they don't help you with temperature regulation very well, and they kind of harm, harm you as you're wearing them. So they're literally the opposite of clothes there. I saw an interesting conversation about the reason why polyester does impact fertility is actually the heat.

It makes us hot. Mm-hmm. So we can't regulate our temperature. It's not breathable. And so that, that's what causes, especially in men when you're looking at like men's boxers and things like that. Yeah. I haven't, uh, heard this, but I can imagine there's, we always say there's three kinds of irritation you can get from textile, mechanical, pathogenic, and chemical.

Mechanical is literally the friction. Um, and, um, polyester rubs very hot. Like it gets really hot. Yeah. And then chemical are all the chemicals that are in there. And that's obviously, that's a huge problem with polyester and polyester also tends to attract environmental chemicals that just stick to the polyester.

Yeah. Stick to. And pathogenic is not a problem with new text, new polyester textiles. Uh, but the longer you have polyester textiles, the more, uh, pathogens just live in a smelly Maybe people know that, like they have this polyester shirt and the smell just does not go out. Yeah, because it's oil dirt. Okay.

I, I wanna talk about this because this conversation just came up. I wanna say like a week ago. So in my community, which is full of people who are trying to live cleaner, more toxin free in their homes and in their environment, they will switch to like a cleaner laundry detergent. Mm-hmm. And have a hard time, right?

'cause a lot of them don't have like harsh surfactants in it. And so they don't necessarily, if you have like really hard water, they don't work as well. So in the middle of this conversation, I said to everyone, I said. I want you to go smell your clothes and tell me which ones are cotton. Yeah, and which ones are polyester because I own some polyester clothes that I've had for a long time.

And there is a distinct smell that I cannot get out of them. Yeah. And I finally went down the rabbit hole and I was like, it's the polyester. Yep. It is the polyester. It's totally the polyester and it's, and it's bacteria that's in the cloth. Oh God. That you can't get rid of. That's the smell. I'm like soaking it in vinegar.

And I was like doing all the nothing's working. Yeah. And it's, and it's very bad 'cause like we have a lot of bacteria in our skin and it shouldn't be disturbed. It's perfect as God made it. And when you. Put something on there with other bacteria, you know, especially this like, like this kind of, yeah.

Badly smelling things that disturbs your, um, skin biome. It's not good. So I gotta get rid of him. Yeah, that's, it's, it's okay. I think I switched out a lot by the way. I got dressed. I, before I got on my plane this morning to New York City, I was like, I cannot interview. Michael would judge me. Mike, he will judge me if I'm in polyester.

So I have, my jean jacket is a hundred percent recycled cotton. Yeah. Um, I'm in a linen, a linen, made the label dress good. My boots are leather from Nilo, which is like really good quality. I think it's a vegetable tan type company. And then I have, um, my leather bag that I bought at to free and miss. I'm, I'm head to toe.

Everything I own is natural and you look fantastic. Oh, thank you. But I do own a couple polyester things that are super cute. And it, it is hard to find things that are more like business related, that have natural fiber. So I do know that, you know, that I'm always gonna have a few things that are polyester, but for the most part, I've, I'm a hundred percent cotton in linen as far as like.

Underwears bras, things I wear daily. I have your regenerative organic cotton plant, dy t-shirts that I live in. Um, I've made a big transition in my life. Every step you do is, is much better. That's why we started with bad sheets, because we're like, where do we even start? Right? And we were like, oh, that's the textile you have, you touch the most.

So you basically have cleaned up 30% of your life and you sleep eight out. Hopefully you sleep. Eight hours. I sleep more. You sleep? That's good. I'm so jealous if I can, if the kids are not crying, but you're in your bed like for a lot of your life. Yeah. So that makes total sense. Yeah. And it's, it's also important, you know, to not just like we live in this day and age, so you can't get away from it.

And it's also not like perfect. Should not be the enemy of better. Yep. Um, every. Choice you, you can make. And I mean, that's one of the biggest philosophical issues where often you can't make, 'cause the label doesn't tell you there's no law, there's no regulation. But every step that you can make, it makes a big difference.

And for me, you mentioned before you, um, you know, your, your condition went away using our batch sheets. I slept for a few days now on a hotel on. Some whatever, batch sheets and I get dandruff, like literally like this. Yeah. And I think it's the friction, it's the chemicals, it's the laundry, it's of course not all pillowcase.

Well, in hotels you don't even wanna know how they launder their Yeah, yeah. See, it's why I travel with my own sheets. Yeah. And, and, and that, and that makes a difference. It's worth it. Even the trouble taking it on a plane. Okay. So back to the normal, everyday person, I always say cotton first. Underwear, brass.

Yeah. Things you wear every day, just try to find a hundred percent cotton somewhere. Yeah, I think, I think so too. I mean, I love cotton. I think it's just a fantastic product and it's, you know, it's been for the longest time of human history, the, the favorite product, um, to make textiles out of king cotton, right?

Hemp is great too. Linen is great. They tend to be a bit harder in the beginning. And I think that's wool. I love wool. Wool. Wool. Yeah, of course. Wool is fantastic. And then, um, um, and then there are these like semisynthetic things and there are, I think you need to have a lot of subtext when it comes to bamboo ray and blah, blah, blah.

Yeah. They can be better than fully synthetic polyester, but they're usually blands and they need a lot of chemical and they're. We get into the territory of like massive marketing. Yeah. Bamboo, natural bamboo, which is one of the few incidences where the FTC said like, that's even too much for us. It's definitely not natural.

Um, yeah. The amount of the amount of chemicals required to turn bamboo into what it is, there is a mechanical way to do it, but very few. I mean, it would be rare. Yeah. That that's actually how it's being made. What about things like tensile things that are like wood? I'm seeing a lot of like Yeah. Wood based.

Textiles. So Tinsel is a company, I think a Swiss company, and it's a trademark. So Tinsel is basically they said, Hey, you can do so much, uh, what's the word? Uh, not hanky, panky, um, what's the word? Like you can do so much, blah, blah with this technology and then have a really lower quality product with a lot of chemicals, shenanigans.

That's shenanigan. That's what I was looking not a very English word. Yeah. Yeah. So that they said, we'll register our process as a patent, blah, blah. And if it says tensile, we've made it and we guarantee, you know, we've managed the chemicals well and so on. But it's also a ray, it's rayon. It's also the same turning wood pulp into fiber and you just gotta imagine, as you mentioned.

How to make something as hard as wood into something soft as skills. Uh, silk takes a lot of chemicals and then most of the companies don't have a strict management thing. So a lot of chemicals called environment and then also are. Uh, residual in the fabric and that this specifically was marketed as the best for people with sensitive skin.

That's just most of the cases is not true, but I would, that's like, that's like draft laundry detergent saying number one pediatrician recommended, right? Yeah. Like they found a pediatrician somewhere and was like, Hey, number one, that pediatrician. Yeah. My cousin. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So Tinsel, I, I'm, Hey, if you have sensitive skin, and I think your basic, basic stuff that you have should be made from cotton, hemp, and wool.

I think that's, that's as easy as that. And those things, you know, uh, one of the arguments that the and linen. Linen. Yeah. Linen and the big industry often saying, oh, but you know, the environment, blah, blah. And I love when they take, um, their concern for the environment as a reason against cotton, which happens in Europe right now, that they say, but, oh, but polyester, it's just, Hmm.

It just was already here. Right. If you wanna watch me flip my lawyer, switch Yeah. And get me worked up. Come at me with. Uh, petroleum derived plastic polyester is better for the environment than growing cotton. Yeah, like, let's go. I like, and you know, I, there, I understand why people fall for that argument, right?

Like, yes, cotton is very water. Heavy cotton has like the most pesticides of any crop. That's why you grow it organically and regeneratively. Yeah. And so let's have a conversation about how we grow cotton better. Yeah. In a way that actually improves the environment. And don't make the excuse that, you know, crappy people are making crappy, toxic cotton out there.

Yeah. I know what you know, that this is a, it's a business. Of course, they'll make this argument and they just do the same with plant ice. They're saying, oh, but you know, we're competing for agricultural space with like people who need to grow food crops and so on. They say the same. So I just helped, um, support the formulation and the launch of Wild Notes, which is a 100% botanical perfume.

Mm-hmm. Right. And. In that perfume space, they make the same argument. Mm-hmm. All these synthetically derived, petroleum derived, you know, uh, fragrance chemicals that they're calling safe synthetics Yeah. Is better for the environment because you're, you know, we have to grow so many plants to like, make your product, I guess they're probably trying to, you know, come up with an argument that's gonna Yeah.

But, but the thing is, and that's what I think is one of the. Things I think is so fascinating about cotton. That was, that precedes me even having, being in textiles, I lived in Japan and I love going to antique markets. They have these really cool antique markets where like, you know, there's all the samurai stuff and there were always these like old indigo textiles.

I'm like, what's like, I mean, they're really expensive too. Right? And they patch together. And it seemed to be like some special stores. And eventually I dare to go to one of them 'cause they're all like, you know, up to a thousand dollars for like all res. And I was what's so special about them? And like, like this guy showed me and said like, look, and it was this like really be almost this blue, is that like really super nice blue textile and had some kind of marking and he's like, this marking we can save.

It's the year of whatever emperor was there. It's like this is 280 years old. And I was like, how is this cotton made, uh, towel and with like this, this inscription on it, um, how I said like almost three and 80 years old. And I think that's one of the amazing things about like, you know, proper textile culture.

Like you can make these things last. Really, really long time, you know? And um, and if it's plant diet and made in this way, eventually you can just discard it into the environment and will fall apart and just become soil again. And to me, that's just one of those things where I just feel like. This whole idea you need, you need to use plastic.

So it's more durable as if the durability is, yeah. What the industry is concerned about. The industry is concerned. You buy a lot all the time, which is exactly also health wise, one of the biggest problems, practical, we can always say now, practical advice, the newer textiles are the more chemicals they have that will lead off the chemicals or that can be absorbed by your body.

So one of the practical advices I'll give is always wash. A lot, um, before you wear it first time. Fun. Multiple times. I, if I buy anything, even a hundred percent cotton. Yeah. Because I know that the things that I'm buying, so like I love mate the label. Yeah. Um, I buy a lot of things from them. Organic basics is another company making some good cotton stuff.

Even them, because they're not plant dying. And so when I bring them into my house, I wash them multiple times. And to your point, fast fashion, it's so interesting. In our culture, in our psychology, and it's kind of the Amazon effect is what I call it. Mm-hmm. People will spend a little bit more money if they can get free shipping because it's that immediate, they feel like they're getting something free.

I feel like fast fashion is the same way. Oh, I can get that thing for like $12. Mm-hmm. That t-shirt is only costing me $12. Well give it 10 washes and it's gonna fall apart. Mm-hmm. And in the next year, you're gonna buy 10. Of those shirts, but if you had just bought a really good high quality organic cotton shirt and like it, it would last forever.

Mm-hmm. So my sheets, I've had now a year, I mean, they look brand new. Mm-hmm. Brand new. And they've been washed once a week. Once a week for an entire year. And 10 years from now, I bet you those sheets are still gonna be. Good quality. We'll even guarantee it. You're gonna guarantee it. We're guaranteeing it.

Yeah. I think we have, uh, a 10 year warranty on manufacturing and we have hotels that washed our sheet like for six years, almost every day. And they still, they, they don't start peeling and so on. They just made proper, like they just made how textiles should be made, but people can actually save money buying better quality.

But it's in our That's true. Yeah. Our current culture, our consumerism culture. I want cheaper. But then we buy more and the only people that benefit from that are the large corporations. Yeah. That are selling us their products. And that's one of the most important things when it comes to health and textiles, is just buy less but better.

Like buy. Yeah, buy less, but better buy, look for better materials. And you know, most companies will still give you a trial period. We give a year try period, because I think people should actually try it for all four seasons and we have almost no returns. But like most companies have some kind of return policy, like try it out and then feel really good that you've spent, you know, you've looked into the material, you've tried it out and feel good and really love that product.

But the, you know, marketing is just like, oh, buy, forget, throw away, buy something new. And the issue with that is really most chemical load is when they come off the factory. Um, the thing I mentioned before, this bacteria buildup is something else, but in the beginning there's a lot of chemicals in there and they say roughly every time you wash 50% of the chemicals that will ever wash out, wash out.

So by that logic, if you've washed something five times, about 99% of the chemicals have washed out. So if they're going to, if they're going to, so for people with sensitive skin, that's a good choice. However, you know, you still should. A few other practical things to consider. Darker dyes tend to be more irritating.

And by the way, dyes, um, there are several studies that show people with contact dermatitis, that means people who react allergic. Mm. And you know, people with eczema, psoriasis, and even dandruff is considered a contact dermatitis. Exactly. Yep. 70% react to the dye and it's. Uh, there's a, I can point people to it if they're interested in looking through the study.

'cause I found it very surprising that there are specific dyes and they tend to be darker dyes that are highly irritating and people often think, that doesn't surprise me. No, I mean, I guess I don't know the actual answer to this, but I would think logically, darker dyes have more, more dyes. It takes more to create those darker, I mean dye, it's basically, we talked about this before.

Basically it's a plastic, it's a synthetic material made from petroleum. It's literally made from exact same things as plastic. Just plastic. The word means to form something and a dye is not form a dye. It's a liquid. Yeah. It binds to the fiber, but it's made, it's a. You know, it's a persistent organic pollutant.

That's the technical word for it. And I think the other thing that's interesting is it binds to the fabric, it also binds to every other chemical. Mm-hmm. That it's, right. So things like PFAS, if you're buying something that is weather resistant or you know, something like that. But. Formaldehyde to keep, to keep it right or overseas.

They spray it with, you know, phthalates or whatever. I know actually companies who spray fragrance on their clothing so that when it arrives, yeah. And you open it up. Yeah. It smells nice. Yeah. And they don't have to disclose that. They don't have to tell you that. And so those dyes actually also have a lot of other chemicals that are hiding in them.

And so when they bind to your clothing, it's all just bound into your fabric. Yeah. Insane thing. It's this massive cocktail, like you are getting a huge cocktail. And you mentioned that 10,000 chemicals used in a textile industry. And then when you consider the combinations you, it, it is endless because one chemical or two chemicals that may not be worrisome by themself, but when they one lowers the skin barrier and then the other one gets into your body and or maybe they, when they combine, it's different.

It becomes extremely complicated. And the thing is, it's all just like, yeah, let's go. And that's, that's the worrisome thing and that's kind of where we are very much in the beginning of this conversation. As a society that this is an issue. But, uh, anything, I mean, you know, just talking about the environment, 73% of the microplastics in the ocean are just pure polyester, and I think around, was it around 30%?

And, sorry, 37, let me get a second. 37% of the microplastics in the ocean are from textile fiber. From textiles. Yeah. Yeah. I, I've heard that. It was actually really sad when we were in Bali. We did balanis. People love the environment. They're very protective of the environment and this fast fashion textile world, a lot of it gets washed up mm-hmm.

On the islands in Indonesia, and so there's just a lot of trash. Mm-hmm. That is textile trash and plastic trash. Everywhere. Mm-hmm. And they're trying to figure out. You know what to do with it. And so I just feel like it's, there's gonna have to be a shift where people are like, oh, plastic bottles are bad plastic.

Like I just switched my espresso machine to one that doesn't have plastic tubing. Or like a plastic boiler where like the hot coffee goes into. Oh yeah. But I think people can internalize and understand. Hard plastic, moldable plastic. Don't put plastic in your microwave. Don't put food in plastic. Yeah. I think we've all kind of come around to, to understanding and accepting that.

I think it's gonna be hard for Americans especially 'cause we love to consume, to understand that polyester clothing, all those cute shirts, those $10 things you're getting. That's plastic too. Mm-hmm. And so I think that's just gonna be more education, more talking about it. Yeah. And we are just, I think we are just starting, that's one of the things important for people.

Like, oh, overwhelmed. You know, if you take a step back, like this is just the beginning. Um, we are just. Just microplastic studies, they're really starting to become really good. We've had a long time scientifically a problem to make good studies because microplastic is a very broad category for whatever million different combinations of different chemicals.

And if a plastic is round or you know, has like serrated, it behaves completely different in the environment. So we are just starting to have these really good. Studies and we will see more and more coming out and people will just go like, I don't want that. That's stupid. Right? And that's, I think this is just happening and you know, I love speaking with you and you know, and people with this similar mindset because it's really conversations and educating each other.

I did not know any of this whole thing I've been talking about 10 years ago. It's just not on my radar and I had other things to worry about and it just kind of became this Pandora's box that I think is really interesting, is just one of the things, Hey, let's talk about it. Let's share what we know. You know, let's share our worries.

Let's share practical tips, and we will, you know, I think one of the reasons why we start doing so well in the last. Years just because a lot of people go like, you know what, I, I don't want that. I want better. I want better. Yeah. And it's possible. And it would make, um, also the industry so much better. I mean, one thing that we always wanted to show that this is possible to do, even to use plant dice, and we have issues with manufacturers that say, oh, regenerative cotton, please reserve for next year.

And, you know, that does not work for every company. Um, but the more demand there is. The, the more, the easier that will become and that there is going to be a chef shift, guaranteed. Yeah. I think that we, the consumers are gonna drive this whole, and that's the way it's always been, right? Mm-hmm. It is rarely the government, the industry.

Yeah. It's always been, people have demanded better. People have said Enough is enough. Yeah. Look at all the synthetic dyes that are now coming out of food. A whole bunch of pissed off moms. Yeah. Made, you know, and so I do think that it, it's going to take us. Speaking up, and I always tell people I was a lobbyist for many, many, many years.

Yeah. And all it takes is you literally picking up the phone and calling the person who represents you in your district. Yeah. And I think people don't realize you can literally pick up the phone. Yeah. Like you can call them. Yeah. Like you hired them. Yeah. Right. Even if you didn't vote for them, you technically hired them.

And you can pick up the phone and say, these are the things that I care about. And I always tell my audience, could you even imagine if. All the people who listen to my podcast, literally just one day picked up the phone and called their representative and said, I want PFAS regulation and legislation. We wouldn't be looking at those rules being rolled back right now if they picked up the phone and said, I care about, you know, heavy metals coming from factories.

I care about the regulation of textiles. Like I feel like if people just were empowered to pick up the phone and tell their representatives, then there would be enough pressure to actually. Do something about it. Yeah. But if you're not gonna pick up the phone, even though I'm really encouraging you to, what you can do is vote with your dollar.

Hmm. So supporting companies like yours, go get some organic cotton plant died sheets. I promise you, I promise you, you'll start traveling with them. You'll like, you will see the difference and you will be like, I, I can't live without these. If that's the first change you make, you guys give my audience a very generous.

Discount. I have an affiliate code, 20% off, 20% off, 20% off. I'll have that linked in the show notes, but if you can switch out your sheets, yeah, then that's, like we said, you sleep at eight hours a day. So from there. Try to get cotton for wit, ladies, bras, underwear, boxers, and then go to like the things you wear every day, all day.

Maybe it's your nightgown or maybe it's your t-shirts and then you know the things that are not on your skin all day. Yeah. Maybe a little bit less of a priority you can take longer to like do those things. Socks. Yeah. I have 📍 like literally made the label had a huge sale over Black Friday and I literally bought like 25 pairs of Yeah.

Their like, you know, socks and so. Yeah, just baby steps. Do the best you can. If you are buying new clothes, try to buy cotton, wash it multiple times to get five. Five times. Five times for people with very sensitive skin. Yeah, but dude, at least I would say once, at least twice for kids. Yeah. Awesome. For sure.

All right, so are we gonna wait another year before you come back? No, I, no. I'm just gonna stay here. Yeah, I wait here. You come back. Thanks for being here. I'm glad this worked out. We'll have to meet in New York. New York City again. Next time a year from now. It's a date. Okay, let's do it. Let's check in.

What's happening? Thanks, Michael. Thank you. Thank you guys.