Wisconsin, a paranormal paradise with lake

monsters, dogmen haunted hotels, famous ghosts, and

deadly killers. It's a lot more than just America's

dairyland. It's time for a deep dive into the weird,

wonderful and terrifying that's lying just below the surface of

reality. From American ghostwalks and Badgerland

Legends. This is the Wisconsin Legends

podcast.

All right, guys, before we get started in today's episode, I want to give

you two notes. First, we get really dark in this

episode. We discuss themes like child death in ritual,

child sacrifice. So if you're sensitive to those topics, you got young

kids around, probably not the best episode for you. Second,

after the episode, there's a special segment that you won't

want to miss. All right, let's get into the show.

Welcome to the Wisconsin Legends Podcast. This is Mike

Huberty with American ghostwalks. And I am joined by

Jeff Finnap Badgerland Legends. And today we've got a really

special guest for you from the Waukeshaw Ghost

Walk. We've got Josh Hughes, our fantastic Waukeshaw

guide. Yes, thank you for the wonderful intro, Josh.

People here have already heard about how I got into the paranormal, how Jeff got

interested in the beginning. How did you get interested

in the weirder side of the world? Well, it all really

started from some experiences I had as a young kid at my home in

Waukesha. That really led me down a path of anything

weird, just trying to learn more, discover what it is. And that's led me now

to my house where I live in Waukesha with my wife. So you're a lifelong

Waukeshaw resident? Minus the few years I spent. Oshkosh green

Bay, New York Basically most of it was in Waukesha. All right. And now he's

back. Now he's back to let everybody know what kind of weird stuff

happened in a town. You just wouldn't quite expect it.

Now you have an unsolved cold case

for us all the way from 100 years in

the making. And this is something that when I grew up in the

area, it was a story that I had never heard. I'm fascinated to hear

what you've come up with and in your research, what you've

discovered about this particular unsolved murder. Please let

us know. This is one of the stories that when I first started doing The

ghostwalks, when he first hired me, I was like, hey, Mike, did you hear about

the little kid that died in the pond? And you're like, yeah, little Lord fault.

Leroy of course I've heard of him, right? And I thought I had, like, this

golden nugget that I was presenting to you, but you're like, yeah, everybody knows about

that. The thing is, not everybody has ever heard about this story. A lot of

lifelong Waukesha residents are like, oh, my God. It started about

100 years ago on March 8, 1921, when a

worker at the O'Loughlin Stone Company was just going to work

for the morning, and he stumbles upon this dead body in

the pond. So this would have been a retention pond for the quarry.

Correct. The quarry at that time would not have been that deep. This was a

retention pond nearby. And if you're familiar with Wakasha, if you live there now, if

you go through there, it's the big quarry that's just beyond

the really? You can't miss it. It's right there. So it's

still here today. It's still a place you can go and check out. Do they

still dig up stones and stuff? It's still an active quarry. It's under a different

name now. But I did reach out to them to see if I could get

a tour, just kind of see where everything happened. And they haven't responded

yet. Okay. Maybe when they hear the podcast, they'll let me inside the gates.

All right, we hope basically this worker finds this little body floating in the

pond. He runs back to the company office, and that's when they phone the

sheriff. So the sheriff comes down with the coroner and they drove over

to the quarry pond. When they were doing a little more

digging in the area, they decided they had to call in the Milwaukee Police Department

to conduct a wide search and to possibly

identify who this little child was

dead in the pond just for the uninitiated. How far is

Waukeshaw from Milwaukee? So Waukesha today

is probably a 2025 minutes drive.

Back then it could have been close to an hour. Right. So before

the interstates came in. Because right now, if you're going on like I 94 or

whatever, you can get from downtown Milwaukee to downtown

Walkershaw in about 20 minutes without traffic or anything. Right. It's a good question because

back then this is a big deal of, okay, we got to call the Milwaukee

Police Department. That's probably going to be maybe an hour. One way to get there.

They call the police out. They're trying to find any

clues as to who this little dead boy is. Now,

they did make note of his physical features, which no longer seemed

to exist. As I reached out to the Waukesha

Police Department and the Waukesha Sheriff's Department, they basically,

quote, unquote, said our record keeping was not that good

back then. So I'm sorry, but we don't have anything from before

1944, which different time. Right. It's

100 years. So give them a little bit of. A break there, which most of

my stories take place before the 40s, so. We'Re not going to steal any

evidence from the Walker Show evidence locker, unfortunately. Right.

They did note that the boy was likely between the age of five and seven

years old, quite short, less than 4ft tall. He had

blonde hair and brown eyes. Now, the child didn't appear to be

malnourished, and there was no physical marks of abuse on his

body. But what did capture the police

and thereafter the nation's attention, was his very

strange attire. He was dressed in a blouse, a button up shirt, a gray

sweater from the at the time, very expensive Bradley

Knitting Company. He was wearing underwear, black stockings and

patent leather shoes. You can kind of paint the picture that this

boy was very well dressed. Maybe he was from money

or a very well to do family. A boy like this turns up,

he's of means it seems like he'd been prominent in

a community of some sort and somebody would come looking for him.

Correct. You think that people are going to miss this kid, right?

It's not just some random bum off the street. Well, right. And if it was

just some kind of random murder or

they were trying to get rid of him, why bother with the nice

clothing? That could be something you could resell maybe

for the evidence or whatever, right? But why bother dressing him so

nicely if you're just going to kill him and throw him in the quarry

where you hope that no one will ever see him, right. Already very

suspicious. Right. And the police knew that when they first found the

boy. When the newspaper reporters got sight of the

child, they read the police file. They dubbed this mystery

Dead Boy little Lord Fauntleroy. And it's taken

me years to be able to pronounce that name, right. But Little

Lord Fauntleroy was named after this lavish character

featured at the time in a hugely popular piece of

sentimental fiction. The book was by Francis Hodgson.

Burnett? From what I've been told, the people that have read the book,

I guess kind of similar to Matilda, a little kid that gets into

antics. Right. But then also the idea, I think that the things he

was wearing comes from the story is that it's like an

American boy that learns that he's got an English title,

right? So then he goes over to the UK

and it's like King Ralph with John Goodman. You guys remember that movie

where he find that John Goodman is like an American slob and he

finds out that actually he's in line to the British throne

and goes over there and makes jokes about the food, like Spotted Dick. And

the idea is the vulgar American coming over to

the high class aristocracy of England.

And that's a little bit of a little Lord Fauntleroy. And it's a popular

thing. You have this idea of this kid dressed in high society,

but he's found in a place where you

dump a derelict, right? Yeah. So I guess in hindsight, it's

almost as if they were poking a little fun at this boy. To

me, when I first heard the story, I thought that it was a

little like it was a little mocking or a little

cavalier for the tragedy

and seriousness of a dead child. Right? And

really after that, there was not much else to be written about

this strange dead boy that was in Waukesha, as they did

a little more further investigation. They weren't quite sure

how long he had been in this pond. They estimated between a week

and six months. Well, and you think he's found in March,

right? March eigth is when he was found, yeah. So he's found in March.

So the water could have been cold, maybe frozen

for a while, maybe preserved. Him a little bit. Preserved him a little bit better

than if he's found in August, right? Yeah, that's true. And really,

besides suggesting that he came for money based on the attire, police

were at a loss for who this kid was. This is where the story

gets interesting, trying to figure out who Little Lord Fault Norway was.

So in an attempt to gather some information, the police put him on

display at a local funeral home. Now, that building still exists

to this day. It used to be a funeral home and a crematorium, but

now I believe it is a law office and a hair

salon. Every time I pass it on the Waukesha tour, I point out this is

where the boy was when it was the funeral home.

Sounds like a place ripe for ghost hunting. I wonder if the lawyers in the

office realize what the origins of the building were. Well, yeah. I

mean, with typical funeral homes, occasionally there can be a

spirit that still hangs out after many years. Well, and if the lawyers won't talk

about it, you know, the girls at the hair salon will.

Every time I get my hair done and they ask what I do and I

go in, they're like, well, let me tell you about what happened to me. And

I'm like, excellent. What is it with hairdressers and ghost

stories? Because whenever I say, oh, yeah, I'm doing something in paranormal, they

always have an anecdote for me. They must just be a little more

plugged in. That's funny you say that. I just went to a new

hairdresser, and my wife's been going to him for years, and when he

found out I was into this stuff, he's like, oh, yeah, I know this gay

witch that lives in Milwaukee. You really got to meet him. He's the most interesting

character. And every time I go get my hair cut now, we talk about the

gay witch in Milwaukee. Who self proclaimed gay witch.

I didn't give them that title. Sounds good. I want to meet the gay witch

in Milwaukee. We'll have to bring him on for his own Wisconsin legend. Sounds like

Alison and T need to hook up with him for the Milwaukee tour. I agree.

That could be interesting. So

as this Little Lord Fault Neroy is displayed in the funeral home

window, the public is invited to come on in. And do you know who

this kid is? Right. And while many people came to see

him, no one could offer up any more information. The case goes

cold for quite some time until a quarry worker comes up with some more information.

Now, he gave the police their very first lead on who the identity of

Fault Leroy might be. And he had said a couple weeks prior,

he had witnessed a young woman in a red sweater wandering

aimlessly throughout the pond. As he approached this woman exactly what

are you doing here? She anxiously inquired about whether he had

seen a little boy in the neighborhood. Now, this quarry

worker added that the woman in red then joined a male

companion, and they drove away in their car. That seems to

be a really good tip right there. You got a woman looking for a boy.

There's another guy there. She's anxious about it. He says, we didn't see anybody, and

they get in the car. Right. Do we know in the timeline

from when the boy's body was discovered that this

other quarry worker came about with this story? Now, he stated this was

about five weeks before the corpse was found. And when did he come forward with

the information? After. So from my notes,

it looks like it isn't quite noted when

this Corey worker came forward with the information, it could have been

a couple of weeks, it could have been a month after. The couple was never

located by police. I'm sure it would have been close to impossible to find a

woman in a red sweater. Right. But the authorities did receive a tip

that the same exact woman had died by suicide in the

same pond where fault Narroy had been found.

So what they did was they set off dynamite in the water in hopes that

the explosion would bring another corpse to the surface. But despite their

efforts, they didn't find any more bodies in that pond. I love that that was

their solution to it. So it's like, here's what we could do. We could dredge

the pond, we could look around. Instead, we're just going to

blow something up right. And hope a body comes up, hops

out. Well, it's quarry, so they're stocked with dynamite. So it seems like the

logical solution. Right? No, but that's just like well, you know, we could

they used to have mystical means of doing that. There was a guy on the

St. Croix river in Minnesota near Stillwater, who they were called

fisherman John, and his specialty was

finding bodies in the St. Croix river because so many people,

their relatives were lumberjacks or their sons or their husbands, and people would

just disappear without a trace. They would do things like put mercury quicksilver.

They would put that in bread and put it in the water and see if

it would pop up in a certain area. And that was supposed to show where

the dead body was. And fisherman John, like he had a business card that he

was the finder of lost bodies. They should have called him out to waukesha

instead of using dynamite. Right. I think he was just dead by that point because

I think he died in the early 19 hundreds. Sure. But I'm sure he had

somebody in his family that could have been like, I got some bread. Yeah. Let's

break open a thermometer and see if we can find a body.

The detectives, their only theory as to what this

couple was doing there is that they sent their little fault

Neroy boy off to play while they made love in the car

and that he had tragically fallen into the pond and

drowned. They quickly dismissed this theory when

the coroner's examination revealed that the body had a

deep cut on the head, which indicated

Fauntleroy had been beaten, slashed,

whatever, on the head with a blunt object before

presuming thrown into the pond. They also

revealed that he had very little water in his lungs, which means he was most

likely dead before he was thrown into the quarry. I like

how their first theory is that,

oh, yeah, well, you know what happened? The couple was doing it, and then they

just sent the boy off and he fell in. Right. Yeah. It's like, go wander

off by the quarry there. Anybody who grew up in Waukesha knows that you're

supposed to go to the missile silo if you want to make out guilty. Yes,

guilty. In high school, it was a creepy place to go in Waukesha,

but they're making that into a very nice outdoor space now.

Oh, okay. That's going to be a cool place to go. And then you go

down to Raise Grain. It's going to be a very nice area. All right, well,

I hope they keep the parking lot. The police, then they decided to post a

picture of the boy in every single newspaper in the Midwest. And

three men offered a financial reward of

$250 large sum of money at the time for any

information on the identity of this unknown boy and or

his killers. Nothing came out of that. They then raised the reward

to a still. There was nothing on who fault

Naroy might be or who killed him. It seemed the

case would close until the owner of a local department store

in Waukesha insisted to police that he had sold the clothes

that were on little Lord Fauntleroy when he was found dead

in the pond. And he says he sold his clothes in January. So now

you can kind of narrow down that timeline of, I think

they said a week up to six months, down to maybe three or so months,

sure. But there was no way to determine who actually bought the clothing. There

were no receipts. I mean, if there's no police reports back then, there's probably not

good receipt keeping. Well. And David Dobrik, the place that he owned was called Liberty

Department Store. And that sounds like a Waukeshaw department

store. So many department stores back then. Right.

And Liberty, I mean, it's right after World War I,

and I think somebody today would probably still name their Waukesha department

store liberty or Freedom or, like, pull my guns out of my

cold, dead hands kind of thing. I did a tour of

Waukesha during the preservation days, and there was a

woman, probably she was close to 80 in a nice

old Victorian era dress, and she pointed out every single

dry goods store and department store that she went to as a kid. And he

just had no idea that there was that much business in downtown

Waukesha as late as the Waukesha kind of went through

a downtime in the 90s, but now it's rejuvenating again. It's

becoming a fun place to go to again. It's a really fun place to go

to when you guys go on the Waukesha Ghost walk, that's what makes it. Really

happening this summer. The Beatles bar Leto B will be open

then, and it's going to be a really fun time. Good. Well, let's hope they

don't find any more dead kids.

Another break then surfaced a few months later when a witness claimed to be

able to identify the unknown boy. A Chicago man named

JB. Bilson stated the child was his

nephew and the son of his sister. This

man explained that his sister's ex husband had kidnapped their two

children and even threatened to kill them on several

occasions. Seemed like a promising lead. But then the police

investigated the claims, and they verified that the children were actually

alive and well. Thus the killer of little Lord Fauntleroy Roy

and his identity back to a cold case. And you'd be surprised

when you talk about, like, family members kidnapping kids and

then taking them out of state and what the law could do about

that. That happened to my own family in Milwaukee in the

1950s. One of my uncles

ran off with some waitress or something like that to Florida with his

daughter and left his wife and the other kids

behind, and there was just nothing they could do about it. Right.

So people seeing that and then this J. B. Belson guy, and he

says, man, this guy's horrible. To my sister, he's threatened them, all

these kind of things. I bet it was him who killed them. And then

you just feel for that family. Like, no matter that GE Hormage's kids

were found alive, that's great. Their family still needs to go to counseling

or know it's still a tragedy. Yeah. It's such a different

time. We really can't relate or fathom how different

police work and family lives were back then. There's no Child Protective services.

No, there's some social welfare stuff, but not like today.

There's no number to call when you see somebody beat a kid. Right. Yeah. It

was good discipline back then, I suppose. Right

after this, what seemed like a promising lead, they announced that the

remains of Little Lord Fault Neroy would be transported to the Weber Funeral

Home to be properly prepared for a burial and there was a

local woman in Waukeshan named Minnie Conrad who spearheaded a fundraiser

to help with the funeral costs. So on March 14,

1921 that would have been

not that long after the boy was found. No, not even a week. So, Jeff,

we can go back to your question of

when did this Corey worker come about

saying, I saw the woman in the red shirt? It was probably a few days

after they put him into the funeral home's front window.

Yeah, in the first week. Right there. Right. So they buried him on March 14,

and a small white casket was gently lowered into the ground

at Prairie Home Cemetery. Now, an unknown person

had scrawled our Darling on the lid of the casket, and

Minnie Conrad placed a bouquet on the boy's grave every year

until she died. I did find a newspaper article talking more about

Mrs. Conrad. She recalls the day that she found out they found

a dead child in the quarry. And she says that someone

came into the store I was working at and said that they found a little

boy who had been murdered in the quarry. And she went to look at the

little boy, and her heart filled with pity. I thought my

own little grandsons could have been this boy. And I felt sorry that he would

have to be buried in a public cemetery. So that's when she

raised the money. I think she said it was $170 for the outfit

and the casket. And that's when they buried him in

Prairie Home Cemetery. Every year on March eigth, mrs. Conrad had

a pilgrimage where she would go up to the gravestone and put flowers on there

to pay honor to little Lord Fauntleroy. Now, her last pilgrimage was

in 1940, and she recalls, it was a very snowy and

cold day, but she made the journey to visit

this unknown boy. And that same day, she repeated her hopes

for the future. If I can only live long enough to hear the

murderer of that boy confess and get what's coming to him, I have a

feeling that someday he will come to my door and tell me why he

did it. Unfortunately, that never happened. She passed away,

and she was buried right next to the unknown boy.

Beautiful story. It's nice to see someone with so much heart for someone that she

had no idea who even was. We probably wouldn't know the

story without Minnie Conrad keeping the memory alive

and going to visit like people do for Jim Morrison's grave. Or

remember the mystery person that leaves the doesn't they leave a bottle on

Edgar Allan Poe's grave in Baltimore every year? Sure, leave the

guy like a bottle of alcohol. Like alcohol didn't destroy his life. And then there

was a mystery woman in black in Los Angeles. And we talk about this

in our Hollywood tour or an La bus tour. We go to Hollywood forever.

Cemetery that she used to leave a bouquet of flowers

by Rudolph Valentino's grave every year on the anniversary of his

death. Sure. Really, it's sad that this happened. It's cool that she kept the memory

alive, and it's cool that she's had that effort. Like, let's give this child a

proper burial. Let's give him the respect that he didn't get in life. And it

is quite the little gravestone to go visit. Once I heard about this story, I

was like, I got to go up to Prairie Home and add this to kind

of my rotation of graves that I go to involved with stories on the

tour. Recently, I went to visit the grave of Little Lord

Fauntleroy, and to this day, there's still coins, little

trucks, toys, because people do go there and still visit

him, because it's one of the famous stories of waukesha.

So, really, this story goes cold for about 20

years, and you've got Mrs. Conrad visiting him.

And there seems to be a strange epilogue that occurred in

1949. That is when a medical examiner from

Milwaukee hypothesized that the unknown boy could actually have

been a child named Homer Lemay who

disappeared around the same time that Little Lord Fauntleroy had

been found in the quarry pond. Now, Homer's father,

Edmund, was questioned after his son's continued

absence, but Edmund stated that Homer had been adopted

by a Chicago couple in 1921. Lemay

claimed that they had taken the boy to Argentina, of all places,

right. And later sent a clipping to him that alleged the

boy was killed in an automobile accident.

Now, if it's believable enough that a

Chicago couple adopted your kid, then they went to

Argentina, and then they said, hey, actually he died in a car

accident. That's a few red flags going up. Right. Yeah. And here's the

newspaper. Don't bother coming to the funeral. They could have sent him

a telegraph. They could have called him at that point. Right. Something, anything that

your son is now dead in Argentina. Right. It just gets a bit bizarre.

And the Milwaukee police investigated this. They actually sent a

detective to Argentina, but found no proof to validate

that these claims, including a newspaper article. Nothing was

found that could say Homer Lemay died in

Argentina. But what's even weirder than that is that

Edmund Lemay, his wife, went missing, and he says

she ran off and that there was no foul play suspected. And they actually ended

up searching the same quarry where the body of Little Lord

Fauntleroy was found. But again, they found no more bodies

in that pond. So it's just bizarre that this Edmund

character, his son, goes missing, and then his wife goes

missing. Perhaps he has a history of getting rid of people he doesn't

want around in his life anymore. Yeah. And to play devil's

advocate for Edmund, his wife, maybe he wasn't a

straight shooter, and maybe his wife did up and leave him, but it

is highly suspect that both his wife and his son went

missing in succession. Right. Well, I mean, if just, like,

devil's advocate here. I don't know Edmund or whatever, and I'm not the

prosecutor, but what do you do in

1921 as a single father if your wife up

and leaves, takes off, and you don't know what to do with your kid? Maybe

he didn't know how to take care of a kid. Maybe he didn't have enough

family himself. And so he says, Well, I want to give this boy a mother

and a father. And so the kid gets adopted by a Chicago couple. But there's

got to be some kind of you figured there'd be some kind of records. Now,

this is 20, 28, 29 years later. So this is happening in

1949, and the original case happened that they find the body

1921. So say this is 1920. So it's almost

30 years later. And you would think that they'd be able to find some adoption

records at, like, a church or something. Right.

But the cops come up empty handed. They said they got to Argentina. Imagine getting

that assignment. Hey, Jones, you're going to Argentina. Find a

newspaper, bring some good cigars back too. Right? Right. You hope that the guy

spoke Spanish. I will say in maybe accusing

Edmund a bit more, when oh, yeah, let's fry him. Yeah.

When Fauntleroy was being displayed in the funeral home,

they actually took a few photos of him, which don't really seem to exist

anymore. And when they reopened this case in

1949, they compared the photo of Homer

Lemay and little Lord Fauntleroy, and they showed them to people who

were around during that time. And they said that's the same exact

kid got eyewitnesses that have seen the body, have seen the photos,

which Jeff does have. And they basically said that's

the kid. But there was no evidence that they could prosecute

Edmund with. Right. You still have to have a case against them, and everything's still

circumstantial until you have that. Yeah. And they even wanted

to exhume the body to see if this was the same

child. However, the sheriff and the coroner decided not

to do that and to ultimately let Little Lord fault Naroy rest in

peace. He is still there to this day. Simple little

tombstone. Unknown boy found in O. Loughlin Quarry, Waukesha,

Wisconsin. March 8, 1921. And you can

see that the pictures that they put in the newspaper of him, they're very

1920s. The things he's wearing striped

rompers, black stockings. Yeah. Black rubbers for his

boots, the white cloth top button shoes, dark gray

sweater. And it's just a very

sad story. That they put in there, comparing the

photos of, well, at least the drawing of

Little Lord Fauntleroy and the photo of Homer Lemay.

The one thing that I can point out that's different is and I'm not sure

how black and white photos exactly work with blonde hair. But they said that Little

Lord Fauntleroy Roy had blonde, curly hair, and Homer Lemay clearly

has darker, straight hair. Could that have been something with the

water? This body was in the pond for quite some time. Did it affect

his hair in some way? But if you look at the drawing and the

photo, it certainly could have been Homer Lemay. Right.

Edmund Lemay ended up living until 1981 in

the Milwaukee area. And he had another family.

Right. He got remarried, I think, a few times. He had a whole new

family. If you're trying to convict somebody of this, you could maybe

presume that Edmunds got rid of his wife, got

rid of his son and started all over again. What that

means, though, is if they exhumed Little

Lord Fauntleroy's body now, they could do a DNA check.

You could certainly do a DNA check because the Lemay family still

has people living to this day, distant relatives perhaps, right. And whether

they want their dad or their grandfather, whatever he put through the wringer. But

I would think even HH. Holmes great great grandson or

whatever he wanted to know, like he had the body exhumed for the TV

show. Right. And so you think somebody would come up with enough money, be like,

hey, do the test. There's even a change petition that

people can sign to demand exhuming the body. Not that the

Walker Shop sheriff or whatever the police department is going to be like, okay,

but with enough people are interested, they might be eventually able

to hopefully settle something or at least find some relatives. Because if they find some

relatives of this kid, well, then you might be able to have an idea

who it was. And then finally, after a hundred years, we can put a

name to this tragic case. Right. And it's on the outside. We're

interested in this story because it's very different. Right. It's very tragic. And

we certainly want to find out who fault Nor Roy was and maybe who did

this to him. But then if you dig that body up and you find somebody

who doesn't want to relive these memories or doesn't want to

know, this was my relative, then you're kind of messing with history. Right? Yeah.

And it's a very fine line that. You want to leave the dead

rest in peace, but also you feel like there might be some

closure just for if you believe in a soul or

spirit that at least there was some justice

historically to identifying this unknown boy

and giving him a more prominent burial. So

I think I could see how it'd be controversial, but I think ultimately it'd probably

be the right move. Wouldn't it be nice to put a name to that instead

of just being on your tombstone? Unknown boy? Yeah, we can

certainly we have the means today to find out who he was.

I'm sure that would put his soul to rest. Somebody else that was trying to

put his soul to rest a few years ago was a psychic by the name

of Marie St. Clair, and she did what she calls a

psychic investigation into the little Lord Fauntleroy case.

And that's a remote viewing thing where she tries to get into

the head of the murder victim and kind of see what happened. And she kind

of wrote down a lot of the stuff that she saw, and she

writes it in first person. Let me read you an example. I'm in a house

in a fancy parlor with lots of expensive furniture and a huge

fireplace. The walls are pale. A wild navy colored carpet with a

red, blue, and yellow leaf or floral pattern covers the floor.

Overall, the vision is somewhat blurry. Now, I'm walking down a long

hall. The same carpet covers the floor. And there's an ornate stairway

at the end of which faces away from me. I must be at the back

of the house. I see a slim man in a dark suit, neatly dressed with

short hair. He has an immaculate appearance. His face is long and his eyes are

dark. He looks young, and then he looks old. He's at a desk before a

typewriter or other machine. Maybe it's a sewing machine. I can't make it out

too well. The scene shifts. I see this man in a bathroom with an old

style sink and tub. Then the view of a long haul again. And then she

kind of goes into the different things. It's a grand home. It's got a big

stairway. There's a parlor. She sees the man above her.

The wall is covered with trophies. She thinks they

indicate success, that maybe he's rich, he's into politics, or maybe he's a

businessman. And then she kind of just grows with his psychic vision. She

gets to the point where they enter a woods, and I return to the woods

where the man stands on the hill. He throws the body over the side. I

briefly get a flash of another man burly overweight with long, wavy reddish

hair, a mustache. He's about 40. I don't know who he is or

what his part in this is. Perhaps he witnessed this event and never told anyone.

I see the boy's dead body lying in a rocky cove or cavernlike area

on a thick bed of leaves. More leaves are all around him. I'm guessing

that the water washes his body out from his resting place during the

spring, as he was found in March. Well, that doesn't

work, really, because how would water from the

quarry reach some kind of forested area? It's

in a limestone quarry. If they left him in the forest, it wouldn't

just kind of wash in there and wash away a body. Well, I

mean, it is a forested area, and specifically, back

then there would have been many more trees. Perhaps the quarry wasn't that

deep at that.

Maybe. Okay, so maybe psychic marie Claire. She's onto something here. Well,

and then I'm sure the man who lived in the big house killed him. I

think the boy is his child and he's unwanted. I'm back at the mansion. I

drift to another scene and an old woman, the one I saw in a wheelchair

earlier, sits and cries. I see the boy, and he's in a simple house. Then

he's sitting outside near the tower of the brick mansion. He cries

alone, and no one comes to his aid. Basically, she says

that she sees Edmund Lemay in her

tall, Thin man in a dark suit is who she focuses on. She

has a picture of Lemay in there. So basically, psychic

Marie Claire, according to her investigation and her remote

viewing, she blames the dad. Now, do we know was the Lemay

family from Money? From my research, they were very basic

at the time. It was a very simple family. They weren't from money. The trophy

thing I don't think really checked out. Maybe if her psychic reading

is onto something, it could be somebody entirely different. Right? And then

Edmund Lemay is just another tall, thin man, you know, because the

tall, thin men always get blamed for this kind of stuff. Especially in

Waukeshaw. There's a whole nother tall, thin man that got blamed for something

else, right?

Let's say it was Edmund Lemay that kills his kid or anybody. That

it wasn't some kind of murder. That

was not like we think of murders today. We think of somebody killing a kid

today. We think of, like, the guy that abducted Adam

Walsh, kidnapped him and abused him and killed him. You think

of someone that's got a van with no windows

saying, hey kids, I got some candy, come on in here and kills them. So

we think of these kind of psychos as murderers. That's not

really who kills kids. Oh, this is

Dr. Philip J. Resnick, and he did a lot of the studies and work

on child murder back in the late sixty s. And he's still working on it.

And this is from his philoside in the United

States and the Indian Journal of Psychiatry in 2016. So philocide

means killing your children. The United States has the highest rate of child murder

among developed nations. The most common perpetrator of child homicide is a

parent in infancy. The US rate of homicide is eight for every

100,000, several times higher than Canada at 2.9 per

100,000. About 2.5 of homicide arrests in the United States are for parents

who have killed their children. 2.5%. Two and a half out of 100

homicide arrests are for parents that kill their children. This amounts to

about 500 a year. The rates of child homicide decrease

with the child's age. So the younger the kid, the more likely they'll

be kid by their parents. So he goes back in his initial study. And this

is from Child Murder and Mental Illness in Parents implications for

Psychiatrists by Dr. Resnick and Hatters Friedman,

MD. And this is in the Journal of Clinical Psychiatry. Parents kill their children for

five major reasons fatal maltreatment,

altruistic. They're acutely psychotic. It's an

unwanted child or spousal revenge. Fatal maltreatment

deaths occurs at the end result of child abuse, neglect, or

factitious disorder by proxy. That's munchausen, like the 6th

sense. Remember the mom and the 6th sense was poisoning the kid. So it's

munchausen by proxy. Or it's when people beat their kids and neglect. So that's when

they die because the parents are jerks. And I mean, I guess if you kill

your kid, you're a jerk no matter what. In altruistic cases, the parents kill

out of love, believing that death is in their child's best interest. That can

occur in psychosis or depression or when a child is terminally

ill, like they're going to die anyway or they have some kind of cancer. Well,

so could on a theory there, if this was from a

not so well to do family and they thought that the child was

supposed to die or had cancer, and this is how you're going to go, could

they have dressed him up in a very fancy outfit, killed him and thrown him

in the pond as like a burial ritual? Well, when we talk about the amount

of homicides that happen of children, it's not the guy in the

van. The vast majority are the parents.

There's parents who acutely psychotic kill their child for no rational

reason. That's when somebody's having let's say they're schizophrenic and they start hearing voices.

That Satan's in the kids that's happened. Remember Andrea

Yates in early two thousand s or late ninety s? I can't remember.

But when she killed all her kids, like five kids and her husband came

home and saw that that was she had a psychotic break. And that's something where

that's guilty by reason of insanity versus unwanted children may

be killed because they are seen as a hindrance to the parents own goals.

That's something like, oh, we can't afford to feed you, or this

kid's really getting in the way of my career kind of thing. And then there's

the JB. Hodgson or whatever thing we were talking about with a woman in

Chicago and that family when her brother came forward to the police and said

that it was her no good husband that took the kids and killed them.

Spouse revenge. One parent kills the child in order to severely

emotionally wound the parent. These are all terrifying things.

90% of Philistine perpetrators are biological parents. 10%

are stepparents. Stepparents are far more likely to kill children than

biological parents. In the child maltreatment homicides with

abuse, neglect, fatal child abuse in stepparents is 100

times higher than in biological parents. The strongest

predictive factors of maternal child homicides. So if they were killed by their

mother, if the child was killed so let's say little Lord Fauntleroy was killed by

his mother are maternal, age of 19 years or less, education

of twelve years or less. So they didn't finish high school. Single marital

status, no husband, and late or absent prenatal care.

They didn't do anything to take care of themselves or the baby when they were

pregnant. Men, as opposed to women who kill their children, are more likely to

kill. Older children are more likely to be

unemployed, are more likely to be facing separation,

spousal revenge, and are more likely to abuse alcohol or drugs.

The kids 16 to 18 fathers commit those murders 80% of the

time. Fathers are more likely to kill when there's doubt about paternity and

when the child is viewed as an impediment to their career. Thanks, dad.

So fathers are more likely to kill when there's doubt about paternity. That's the kind

of thing you find out your six year old was not your kid, and so

you freak out. Or that when you think about different kinds of

motives that people could have to do such a horrible crime as

a blunt force trauma on a six year old boy. Paramours

rarely kill their own children. Let's say you married into a mixed family

and you're a stepfather, as well as,

like, there's another kid in there. They more often kill the sons of their

predecessors, so you're much more likely to kill

the kid of the ex husband than your own. That being said,

what did the quarry worker say? That the woman was

coming in and she was desperate and looking for a child, and they

figured that she would have killed herself too, or maybe she was killed

as well. So that was their first idea that, oh, they killed a

child and then she killed herself for her. Let's dynamite the quarry to find the

body. Blow out of the water. Philosophy suicide common factors in parents

who kill their children themselves. This is again. Susan Hatters Friedman,

philip J. Resnick. Deborah Hoyda, carol Holden and

Stephen Nofsinger. These are all well educated people who have

butchered their names, but this is in the Journal of the American Academy of Psychiatry

and the Law. In January 2005, Resnick reported a

relief of tension after altruistic and acutely

psychotic philosophies. The expulsion of energy after the child's death

explains why some parents who had intended philoside suicide to kill their kid

themselves then didn't complete the act. Conversely, other parents,

quote upon realization of the gravity of their act, may attempt

suicide even when it was not planned. Unquote in the reported literature,

a large proportion of philosophy have suicides with them.

16% to 29% of mothers and 40% to 60% of fathers who

commit killing their children also kill themselves. Fathers higher rates

of philosophy suicide are possibly related to the higher male suicide rate in general.

In children under five years of age, over 60% are killed

by their parents. Meanwhile, the murder rate for US. Children under five years

age is more than twice the rate of our Canadian neighbors children of that

age. I just thought it was interesting that so many of

they went into immediately looking for that

the mother committed suicide if the child did too. And that

seems to be that. The evidence and the data also supports

that. Going a little bit later on the article women who commit

infanticide and then attempt to take their own lives are also

more likely to kill more children. So if

they plan to go out, they plan for everybody to

go out. But you're wondering

why if we talk about the different reasons that you would kill a

child and you say there's the psychotic which is what? That's the only one we

could assume, right? That's the one we always assume. Like you got to be crazy

if you're going to do that. Why would you ever do that? Well, that's a

very modern interpretation and so the

altruistic thing we'd say only maybe somebody would consider

it not I hate to even say this as a parent

somewhat moral, some kind of euthanasia, as morally

acceptable. If your child has some kind of

disease then they would just be miserable and so you got to put them out

of their misery. But there were plenty of civilizations

and parents throughout history that

didn't think it was a negative thing to

kill your children. And in fact it might have been an

honor. What if it's part of your religion? Child

sacrifice in the Western world. This is an article 2004, written by

David Medima in the Journal of Critical Thinking and

Bioethics. In order to understand the nature of ancient practices

one must understand the mindset of tribes that participated in acts

like child sacrifice. As many people know, several South American cultures

held ritual games to determine who would be sacrificed. What many

do not know is that in at least half of the cultures it was winners

of the games who won the right to be sacrificed. In short,

these people viewed it as an honor to become a sacrifice. Furthermore,

it was a great privilege to give up one's children for this cause. In some

South American cultures the sacrifices were annual whereas the

details in certain Middle Eastern cultures varied. Some

gods, such as Moloch required child sacrifice on a

frequent almost daily basis while others, such as Baal required this

annually. This was the people's worship to their gods and they expected

to be rewarded. The cultures were convinced that by sacrificing

their children quote their lives would be better

unquote. And when we talk about an area that's

right by Waukeshaw we have the

ancient town of Astland and this is

right about 30 miles. So it's outside of Waukeshaw County. It's in Jefferson

County. And basically if you're taking I

94 out of Waukeshaw towards Madison

25 minutes later or maybe 20 minutes if you're. Going 75

not to be confused with the Motocross track right on the highway there that's also

called Asdalon. It's a state park. It's pushed back a little ways

there, and it has several steppe pyramids and

several burial mounds there. And it's an amazing place to visit.

But Mike can tell us a little about the human sacrifice that

happened there. Well, it's not like they're doing like the motorcycle races over the

mounds. No, hopefully we're a little more respectful than that. So this is

from the online collection from the Milwaukee Public Museum. Astoland was first discovered

by Europeans in the fall of 1835 by Wisconsin territory settler

Timothy Johnson. And upon hearing of the stories judge Nathaniel

Hire, who is a Milwaukee settler, visited, it was Judge Hire who

first gave asteland its name. The name asteland comes from the mistaken

idea prevalent in the early 19th century that the site may have been the northern

place of origin of the Aztecs of Mexico. As mentioned in their

legends and oral traditions, judge Hier related Azteland to the

Aztecs based on the resemblance he saw between its mounds and the

Aztec pyramids. So the first scientific and systematic excavations

of any archaeological site in the state of Wisconsin were conducted at asteland in

1919 by Samuel Barrett and the Milwaukee Public

Museum. Barrett conjectured that cannibalism was a major part

of the Mississippian diet at asteland. Mississippian is the

culture of the mound builders. They came from, and they had a

gigantic city called Cahokia near St. Louis that they think

Cahokia was about 1400 years ago when it was big, but they think

at its biggest was up to 40,000 people. So a huge, huge

city of this Mississippian culture, these mound builders. And she said the

cannibalism was a major part of their diet, based on the numerous butchered, broken

and burned human bones in refuse areas, fire pits, and the nature

knoll area of the site in the southeast corner of the enclosure.

Warfare and cannibalism are among the most heavily debated topics of archaeological

research and interpretation, and they're also a great interest to people

who like asteland. Since Barrett's initial excavations, it has been suggested

that warfare and cannibalism were important organizing factors in Mississippi

and societies as a whole. If they do represent cannibalism, several

ethnographic analogies suggest it is possible that members of the society or

war captives were consumed as part of ritualistic

sacrifices. This is 30 miles away from where they

found little lori Fauntleroy one of Astellan's most famous and intriguing

discoveries was the burial of a young woman known. As the Princess of

Astellon. This is the largest burial mound there. It's a large

conical burial mound, measured about 50ft in diameter, standing

6ft above the ground when it was constructed. This burial was one of the most

unusual ones because it contained the remains of a female in her early 20s

adorned with 1978

perforated discoidal, local clamshells, and a few

imported Gulf Coast marine shells. So from

Mississippi, the princess was placed in her back in a fully extended position

nearly 10ft from the surface of the mount. This astland individual was

dubbed the princess by Samuel A. Barrett because he reasoned that her status

as exhibited in this elaborate and distinct burial was likely

inherited. But her actual status is unknown, of course, because we don't know anything about

them. Now, he thought it could be because she's from an elite family or she

was part of a chiefly lineage. That's the idea. So we have

the princess who was found in

Cahokia, little Lord Fauntleroy, dressed know. So

she's dressed up to the knights, and the only burial there, the

only one they found north of Cahokia that had that kind

of ornamentation on her. And she wasn't necessarily a

human sacrifice or anything. I don't even know if the Mississippian culture really

did human sacrifices. That's above my pay grade. But I just think it

was an interesting connection that you found

famously in Wisconsin when you have two unknown

bodies dressed up to the nines in their

burial unidentified, they both end up being pretty

close to each other, if not centuries apart. Right.

Okay. So child sacrifice to us, sounds

disgusting, right? Sounds horrible. We're shocked by it. When we talked about

the Aztec culture like that, they mistakenly thought that Azteland was part of the

Aztecs, the Aztecs and the Incas. We talk about human sacrifice

and child sacrifice. They found a location in Peru where they thought they had

194 kids sacrificed at once. A burial.

Just insane. It's shocking. It was shocking to the Spanish explorers.

That's part of the rationale that the Spanish

conquistadors used to destroy those civilizations.

Why would someone in modern times,

or at least what we think of more modern times, maybe 100 years ago, why

would they think that child sacrifice would be acceptable?

Well, we're going back to everybody's favorite book of the Bible. You think about

Christianity, early 20th century people look a lot more religious than they

are now. Well, the story of Abraham, right? Who's the founder of the

religion they call Judaism, Christianity and Islam the

Abrahamic religions because he's the patriarch, the guy that

started it. Genesis 22. Sometime later, God tested

Abraham. He said to him, Abraham, here I am. He

replied, Then God said, Take your son, your only son, whom you love,

Isaac, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as

a burnt offering on a mountain. I will show you. Early the next morning, Abraham

got up and loaded his donkey. He took with him two of his servants and

his son Isaac. When he had cut enough wood for the burnt offering, he set

out for the place God had told him about. On the third day, Abraham looked

up and saw the place in the distance. He said, his servants stay here with

a donkey while I and the boy go over there. We will worship, and then

we will come back to you. So he's already lying to his servants he's? No,

no. This is setting up kind of a hit. God tells him he's got to

kill his son. Abraham took the wood for the burnt offering and placed it on

his son Isaac. And he himself, he carried the fire and the knife. As the

two of them went together, isaac spoke up and said to his dad or his

father, Abraham father. Yes, my son? Abraham replied, the fire and

wood are here, but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?

Abraham answered, God himself will provide the lamb, my son.

And the two of them went on together. When they reached the place God had

told him about, abraham built the altar, arranged the wood. He bound his son Isaac

and laid him on the altar on top of the wood. Then he reached out

his hand and took the knife to slay his son. But the angel of Lord

called out to him from heaven, said, Abraham, Abraham, here I am. He replied,

do not lay a hand on the boy. He said, don't do anything to him.

Now, I know that you fear God because you have not withheld from me your

son, your only son. And then, because

Abraham was willing to sacrifice his

child when God commanded, he feared God so much

that here's what the angel says. The angel of the Lord called to Abraham from

heaven a second time and said, I swear by myself, declares the Lord,

that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son,

I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in

the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of

the cities of their enemies, and through your offspring, all nations on earth

will be blessed because you have obeyed me. Well, right there in the Bible,

we're not talking about some ancient text or the Phoenicians or

we're talking about the regular Bible that we all learned in Sunday

school. God commands you to kill your kid to be blessed. Right.

Why would then somebody who's a little off

or who's crazy think that? You hate to say crazy because

that's not a scientific term. But somebody who is delusional

might think they're doing an altruistic thing for their child by

sacrificing them. This is coming in from Keith Reyes, the Department of

Sociology and Anthropology. This is his dissertation from the

University of Texas at El Paso. Philosopide as child

Sacrifice in the Judeo Christian worldview of the United

States, philoside is deemed by American society as one of the most

incomprehensible merciless acts imaginable. Despite its reprehensible

nature, over the past 25 years, philicide involving children less than

five years of age in the United States has accounted for

61% of all children's deaths, and that is a

statistic. As of 2005. Contemporary maternal philoside has generally

been one of two ways the perpetrating mother is either mad or

bad. The mad mother generally performs philicide as a result of preexisting

mental illness, usually brought on by postpartum depression, and the bad

mother performs it as a result of being labeled a cold, evil mother who

refuses to conform to Western societal standards of mothering. Mothers

viewed as mentally ill generally conform to Western societal roles. They serve their homes

in expressive roles, emotionally nurturing their children, and subserviently substantiating

their husband's roles, the authority in the home in line with the Judeo Christian

tradition. Okay, subservient wives forget that

one in my house. But quite often the mothers in these

relationships experience a lack of social support and have minimum social

networking outside of their immediate family. These mothers are generally

older, married. They don't resent their role. And so

this idea that present research neglects the religious

institution's ability to create a worldview which orients the action and

normative behavior of society's members, and this paper

disguised dissertation was research providing a framework that the

JudeoChristian religion can create a worldview which

simultaneously condemns and legitimates philiicide. It doesn't have

to be a senseless, random act of violence. Rather, it's a consequence of

the worldview which defines the sacrificial offering of one's

most valued possessions to God as the quintessential

act of worship. Okay, that was very

dissertation language there. But by using

the studies and things, you're saying that if we think of these

murders or child sacrifices so disgusting and

shocking and sometimes people can think they're doing the

right thing and they don't have to be some kind of if we say

some kind of primitive religion, some kind of part of

some kind of cult that we cannot understand. People can warp their views.

They can use the story of Abraham and everything to warp their view

and think they're doing something good, even if they're

raised in the religion most Americans end

up being raised in. And we talk about little Lord

Fauntleroy and the possible things that could have happened. Was he an

unwanted child? He's not neglected because they dressed him up. Is it

spousal? It could be spousal revenge. I mean, that's something get back at the mom.

But why didn't the mom ever come to the police? Unless she was killed and

disappeared too. Right? That's Edmund Lemay right there. Oh,

my wife disappeared, and my kid died in Argentina.

Bye. So not neglected, Edmund Lemay. Is spousal revenge

the other options? I mean, a crazy person dressed their kid up? Acutely

psychotic absolutely is a possibility, but altruistic,

which we think of as no way. No way could these things

be could a child sacrifice someone, justify it in their

mind? I think they could. I think they could. I think with everything

you've just presented yeah. It seems like somebody could in some way

think, this is good that I'm. Doing that's just a little bit.

Talking about what could the motives be of the murder

of the poor, tragic story of

the little boy who was found in the. Walkershaw

quarry over a hundred years ago. Josh, if people want

to learn more about your research and tours and the things that

you're interested in, where can they find you? Americanghostwalks.com you could find

the Waukesha page active on Instagram and Facebook

waukeshaghosts. We do a bit more posting in the summer months,

but there's always a lot of interesting things to find out. And there's

some stories I don't talk about on the tour. And there's some more information and

photos on Social where you can discover some more stuff for yourself.

Yeah, and if you have an idea for a walk of Shaw ghost

story, reach out to Josh. He'd love to research it and

maybe add it to his tour. If you have a haunted house, you know where

to find me, right? Who are you going to call? Josh.

And once Josh gets the story, I know he'll pass it on to Jeff. And

you can find Jeff, and he. Can share that story statewide at Badgerland

Legends on Instagram and Facebook. Badgerlandlegends.com.

Fantastic. And you can find American ghostwalks

in seven different states, plus Puerto Rico, all over Wisconsin and

Wisconsin Legends. And thank you very much for joining us on

this episode, the tragic episode, the story of a Little Lord

Fauntleroy on Wisconsin Legends podcast.

On March 8, 2023, josh and I made a

pilgrimage to Prairie Home Cemetery in Waukeshaw

exactly 102 years after the discovery of

his body. We intended to continue that tradition

that many Conrads started all those years ago. We

visited the grave of the unknown boy and placed flowers on that

grave. We tried to make contact with him to see if he'd

come through to reveal his identity.

I know it's been some time since Minnie Conrad has

visited you, but she was the one that paid for your grave

and your suit and everything. If there's any sort of

information you want to give us your name, your family, your parents,

anything so we can help identify you, that would be great.

We're going to walk over to Minnie Conrad's grave, and we'll leave this

here just in case you're shy.

Although it was unclear whether we made contact with the young

boy, we intend to keep the tradition alive that many

Conrads started all those years ago. We hope

the young boy's soul is at rest.

The Wisconsin Legends Podcast is presented by American

ghostwalks, hosted by Mike Huberdine and Jeff Venom, recorded

at Sunspot Studios in Madison, Wisconsin, edited by Jeff

Venom, audio engineer Mike Kubernetes, music by

Sunspot and various artists. Find out more about the show, including

show notes@wisconsinlegendspodcast.com. Follow

the guys at American ghostwalks and Badgerland Legends on Instagram

and Facebook. We'll see you next time.

Sam

you.

Thanks for listening. If you enjoy Wisconsin paranormal

experiences and ghost stories and UFO sightings and monster

legends and true history and crime stories just as much

as Jeff and I do, then you're going to love the 2023

Milwaukee Paracon happening October 13, the 15th

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That's going to be absolutely free at the Irish Cultural and Heritage Center

in downtown Milwaukee on Saturday, October 14, going from 10:00

A.m. To 06:00 P.m.. And we'll be doing a Wisconsin Legends

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