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greetings and welcome to the talk with

History Podcast I am your host Scott and

I'm here with my wife and historian Jen

on this podcast we talk about

history's continuing impact on all of us

and our personal Journey even me and Jen

through YouTube is we kind of go out

with a family and explore and we record

and we share our history walks with our

subscribers and our community and the

walk with history community so

um so Jen what are we what are we

talking today on the talk with History

Podcast So today we're going to cover

our very first video on walk with

history okay so what was what was that

what was our very first video that we

made once you kind of recap that for

anyone who hasn't seen it so the very

first video for walk with history on

YouTube is Nathan Bedford Forrest and

we're going to talk about why he was the

first video and

then get into

the man himself so okay

before we do that I have a very

important question okay why was Forrest

Gump named after Nathan Bedford Forest

because a lot of people don't realize

that in the movie Forrest Gump that's

who he's named after I think she says to

remind him that sometimes people do

things that just don't make no sense

that's what she says right that's right

yeah that's what she says yeah and I

think

and they're related to him right aren't

they like distantly related to him and

she wanted to name him after that to

remind him that people do things

sometimes that just don't make no sense

like those are her words yeah and and I

bring that up because I think that kind

of ties that thread like you like to say

ties through why you did yes

to walk with history on on Nathan

Bedford 4 so tell us how why that was

our

first one okay and kind of where that

came from sure so we had just moved to

Memphis in July of 2016.

and

Memphis was completely new for us so

Scott is from California born and raised

did some college in Maryland and then I

am from all over but never the South

even though I was born in North Carolina

which is

is the South but I was only there for

two years and then we quickly moved to

Hawaii and Wyoming and Pennsylvania

so when we both moved to Memphis in July

of 2016 we were really surrounded by a

different culture

and I wanted to start a Facebook page

called walk with history for my family

and and for your family and for our

friends

so we could kind of teach them about the

history of Memphis and the surrounding

areas that none of us really had been

a privy to before so that was the whole

point and the first video I did was

Nathan Bedford Forrest and it's because

of his statue that was right in the

middle of the city of Memphis so I

thought that would we would drive by it

and we had no clue who he was until we

lived in Memphis and we had no clue what

even statue that was until we had to ask

people and then we were like well who is

this guy and why does he have a statue

in the middle of Memphis and so that was

really the emphasis of that video to

kind of explain who he was why is the

Statue here

and what does it mean for the city

yeah yeah and I think that's one of the

cool things that a lot of people who've

only seen walk with history the YouTube

channel don't know is that was

four or five years before we ever

started walk with history on on YouTube

right you just literally just grabbed

your phone vertical video which drove me

crazy yes and posted it up you made a

Facebook page and you posted it up and

you shared it with a bunch of friends

and they thought it was interesting and

all of a sudden you had all these

friends like oh my gosh can I be part of

this Facebook page and

you you started Gathering like a mini

following there I think you know I think

today where there's a couple hundred not

as many as the YouTube channel but

there was interest there yes and

videoing it vertically was a challenge

then trying to make it our first YouTube

video because we had to try to make that

video that vertical video into a

horizontal video for that first

YouTube video but we I felt it was

important to revisit

that because in the last five years from

the time I had done the original video

to when we had done the YouTube video

things had changed so what what things

had changed um since I think you did the

vertical the original video just the

original walk in 2016. So what had

changed between then and when we started

well the statue had been removed that's

right and there was still

there was still talk because what the

the interesting thing about the Nathan

bedford's Forest statue is he's actually

buried underneath it and his wife is

buried underneath it so that caused a

lot of

difficulties because you had to also

remove a grave and change a grave so

there was a lot of legal proceedings

that went with that so the statue had

been removed for a long time the

pedestal

had not so I wanted to update viewers on

what had happened since then and what

was going to happen to the Statue and to

the the bodies of Nathan Bedford Forrest

and his wife yeah and and just to kind

of reset the context of the scene is in

2016 the video or the statue was still

up there right you're going there and

there was some stuff on the ground I

think it was some black lives matter

stuff that was on the ground that wasn't

there until no that wasn't until later

yeah in 2016 there was nothing yeah so

in 2016 you did the original video the

statue was up there and then fast

forward a couple years when nationally

there was a the black lives matter

movement had kind of surfaced or

resurfaced yes and statues all around

the country specifically largely through

the South for obvious reasons

um Civil War era statues they people had

been taking them down or arguing to take

them down and all of a sudden Nathan

Bedford Forest yes

be gain Center Attention Center Stage in

the Memphis area so tell us about Nathan

Bedford Forest and kind of Briefly

summarize

who he was and what people did know or

didn't know about him so he's a

the confusing and interesting

person first of all his statue is right

in the middle of Memphis like rape

beside Sun Studio so if you know

anything about Memphis in the history of

Memphis it's really known for its music

history Sun Studios where Elvis Presley

was originally recorded and that's what

Johnny Cash did a lot of his recording

so you can see the statue from Sun

Studio so it was a very prominent statue

in the city

he was

a slave trader and being a student of

American history and getting my Master's

in American history

at the University of Memphis using that

term slave trader

comes under a lot of controversy because

that term kind of equates to an equal

trade of Commodities and when you're

talking about trafficking people and

selling people there really is no

equality of commodity there so it really

downplays

what is really happening in that

situation so I don't I might switch back

and forth with my verbiage saying human

trafficker or slave trader

just so you understand really what he is

doing so he what's he best known for I

bet he's known for a couple things

the slave trading he makes his millions

in that then he becomes a confederate

general in the Civil War right and

that's what the statue depicted the

statute depicted him on a horse in his

Civil War uniform and he is a general of

the Calgary in Tennessee and he is for

all intents and purposes he is a good

General in the fact that he is evasive

and unable to be captured and can make a

really strong fight and for those

reasons Grant has a famous line that is

called that that devil Forest because he

was hard to capture and hard to overcome

of course he never ends up winning you

know the Civil War is not one so he

comes back to Tennessee and starts to

make his way in the railroad industry

and then he is known for being the first

Grand wizard of the Klu Klux Klan so

he's not known and that's what they

depict in Forrest Gump and that's what

they depict and that's really where the

controversy came out in the 2019 time

frame when all those statues were

getting torn down that was the focus on

the public and the media in the Memphis

Area even I remember not being a history

guy it was all over the news yes and

that was the focus right it was Nathan

Bedford Forrest the the first Grand

Master of the Ku Klux Klan yes grand

wizard Grand wizard um

but there's a lot of context that the

news and media doesn't give so that's

that's what I said it's confusing he was

not a originator of the Klu Klux Klan he

did not start the Ku Klux Klan that was

start it started in Polansky

um Tennessee which is about I would say

two hours to the east of Memphis and

it's it's well documented there

um the people who actually started the

clan and then even

there is no real direct

documentation that shows him as the

grand wizard there's a account

of him being in a hotel in Nashville

where a hotel room where they had

gathered for a clan meeting and they had

elected him the first Grand Wizard and

someone gives that account now I don't

think

Forest ever

um verifies that and agrees with that

I do think that he was there is accounts

that he is definitely evolved involved

in the clan

the clan had a different kind of

beginning than what we think of it today

it really was at first to stop

Northerners coming down south and taking

southern land and taking Southern jobs

and so to push the carpetbaggers back

but it was always violent and that's

that was their means of stopping people

and then then it definitely turned into

a racial violence but you get

Forest testifying at one point that he

that some African-American men had been

lynched and he said that him himself

would go out with the party to catch the

lynchers

so I am I'm not arguing for or against

forest in any way I have no ties to

Forest or the area I always feel like an

interloper when I talk about stuff like

this because I am I'm definitely feel

like a Yankee

but I do want all the information out

there because this was the confusing

part for me

learning about him as a student of

American History at the University of

Memphis is there was definitely things

on both sides that I could see and

I knew that he had done terrible things

but I also in the end he gives a speech

at a pallbearers Association

in in favor of African Americans and

African-American education and he's

actually presented Flowers by an

African-American woman and he kisses her

on the cheek now I have professors that

feel that that was all part of a scheme

to get Workers for his railroad business

but there's no verification of that so

those are the things you have to you

have to worry about as a historian is

you can't just I think it was this well

is there a document that said we that

Forrest said I did this because I really

just wanted people to come work for my

Railroad

it unless you have those things you're

really just guessing as a historian yeah

and I think

from my perspective is watching you go

through your graduate education and

watching you learn about these things

and you coming home and talking to me

about them

you know I started hearing this and I

had the initial reaction that probably

most people do and the people listening

to this podcast is saying like well is

she kind of being an apologizer for

Nathan Bedford for us and I learned that

that's not the case at all really what

you're doing what a historian should do

is consider and learn and talk about all

the facts and like you've said try to

remove your own personal bias

so that's that's kind of the historian's

job yes is is to do that and so I

thought that was very interesting

because this is a an incredibly

uncomfortable subject for a lot of

people yes and he was a very

controversial figure for that part of

his life for for um and so when the

statues started getting taken down all

throughout the South and the in 2019

time frame that was a big thing in the

Memphis Area they did in the middle of

the night which a lot of people didn't

agree with and and this that and the

other so

um that's one of the things that I found

very interesting was

something as uncomfortable and

controversial as

Nathan Bedford Forrest who many the only

thing they really know him for is that

if they know anything at all they might

know him for Forrest Gump or as the

first Grand wizard of the

KKK yes and there was a lot more there

not apologizing or not vouching for or

against but

taking the whole picture into account

absolutely like so I was a part of a

group that actually had a marker put up

at the location a historic Market put up

at the location where his business was

his human trafficking business his slave

trade business on Adams Avenue in

Memphis we had a marker put up to

emphasize

this is how Nathan Bedford Forrest made

his money he human trafficked people and

in that ceremony which we did on the

anniversary of the 50th anniversary of

the Martin Luther King assassination the

ceremony to dedicate that marker we read

the names I say we I was in I was

present there I didn't read any names

that day one of my professors did though

and a couple of my friends did

researchers found the names I would

think of

I don't want to I don't know exactly 80.

enslaved people that were sold

by Nathan Bedford Forrest and I mean as

young as six months old and I I cried I

cried so I think he's a terrible person

in that regard I do I I'm what a

horrible thing to do to sell people

but as a historian

I believe that people

can make up their own minds and my job

is to give you the facts my job is to

give you the facts of those names my job

is to give you the facts of what he did

in the Civil War what he did after with

the clan what what is factual about that

and then what is factual about the

pallbearer speech and then you have to

decide is this man

did he have a a a second chance that he

to have a change of heart did he decide

that he was wrong in the end of his life

do people get that chance in life I mean

I'm not this is again I'm not

saying one way or the other how I feel

about Nathan Bradford 4 is I'm saying

these are the facts and that's what a

historian is supposed to do is give them

to you so you can decide in the end

the statue was taken down it was taken

down at night I believe that if a statue

is put up by the community it has every

right to be taken down by the community

especially if the community doesn't feel

that that that exemplifies how they feel

about something

um but I think you and I have talked

about this before taking it down at

night I think sends the wrong message

I think it should be taken down in the

middle of the day and it should be taken

down to Fanfare they these statues

historically go up in great Fanfare they

go up with great crowds of people

and a lot of excitement and they should

be taken down I feel in the same way

because

that should be how the community feels

about it yeah yeah so I think it was an

interesting one to start it was walk

with history the our YouTube channel

with

um but you did a good job in relaying

and I think clear you know shining a

clear spotlight

on all of the facts yeah and I I wanted

to emphasize too that he that statute

didn't go up until

I can't remember now a little after the

1900s he had already died and he had

already been buried at Elmwood Cemetery

with his wife so his body was moved and

his wife body was was moved to that Park

and at the time that Park was the

outskirts of Memphis

now it's like the center of Memphis but

at the time it's the outskirts and it

was private property and someone had

paid for the Statue and had it all put

up then of course that person passed

away gifts the park to the city and then

the city has to now have this

controversial they build around it yes

yeah and so he's he was not originally

buried there

and he has a daughter who actually dies

Young from um and she's buried at

Elmwood Cemetery

and she's she stayed there so he

originally was buried with his wife and

young daughter and then they just moved

him and his wife and left the young

daughter there so no it was again it was

a very interesting one and I think

hopefully for the people listening today

they learn a little bit about who Nathan

Bedford Forrest was and more than just

the namesake of Forrest Gump and someone

who did something that doesn't make much

sense as Forrest Gump's mother says and

also kind of why use this kind of the

origin story of walk with history this

is why you started it you started it

literally just because you enjoy

sharing your knowledge with friends and

family on interesting pieces of history

and you did so literally just by walking

out to where the statue was and and

filming

the only two things that I really think

about when I think of that statue is

without that statue I would never know

who he was

it was because we had moved there and we

were driving around and I saw that

statue and I go what is that who is that

and Nathan Bedford Forrest who who was

he and that's when I learned about him

now I'm not saying that you need a

statue to learn sure absolutely not but

I found out more about him because of

that statue

I

don't think the statue is being

destroyed I think it's going to the sons

of the Confederacy and Spring Hill

Tennessee they have a home or a area

where I think the statue is going and I

think also the bodies are going there

they're not even going back to Elmwood

so

I don't know if I buy into all of that

you're destroying history you're taking

down I I don't not the history doesn't

get destroyed history does not get made

by a statue doesn't get destroyed by a

statue I also don't believe there's

racism in a statue I believe it's a

statue I think all the racism and hate

you feel is in your heart and whatever

you have learned about a certain person

or about a certain thing in history it's

it's what you have learned and what you

see because if no one even knows who

that person is looking at a statue of

them is not going to make them see

racism

so I think there has to be a part where

you were recognizing

our education and whereas our education

coming from and who's teaching us and

what are the nuances that people are

using for wording some of the the

collective understanding as well

Collective understanding and like I said

like slave trade human trafficking like

how are things being presented to us in

an educational level to understand

things so I think he was a great person

to learn from in the beginning because

he was so

controversial

and remind you that people again just

like she says in Forrest Gump

people do things that don't make much

sense people do terrible things

and then people do great things

and

when does when does one outweigh the

other I don't know and I don't I will

never make that decision but I will try

to lay all the facts out for you so you

can make them yeah well again uh thank

you for kind of giving us your

perspective on on history and sharing

that hopefully those who are listening

who may have seen the video in the past

on the walk with history YouTube channel

can either go check it out if you

haven't seen it and if you have watched

it before hopefully this provided a

little bit more background and insight

into why we started why that was the

very first video

and thank you for listening so please

reach out to us on Twitter we have the

Twitter handle at talk with history so

just what I'd encourage folks to do if

you guys are on that Medium is uh go on

Twitter and tweet at us and tell us

where in the world you were listening

from I want to hear from her listeners

out there where you guys are listening

from what part of the country what part

of the world you can find more of this

podcast at talk with history.com and

thank you and we'll talk to you guys

again next week I'd be interested too if

people knew who Nathan Bedford Forest

was yes that would be an interesting if

you could write if you could write did

you know who he was yeah and where when

did you learn about him because I did

not yeah a little little Community poll

there so so tweeted us at talk with

history

um let us know if you knew who Nathan

Bedford Forest was where you guys are

from and we look forward to connecting

with you and talking with you next week

thank you so much

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