00:00 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

Have you seen white lotus? I have not. I don't even know what it's about, but I know that it's a big thing because everybody's talking about it. And is it on HBO or Showtime? It's on HBO, yeah, okay, so I'd have to sign up to watch it.

00:14 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

It's so deeply character driven Like deeply character driven there's definitely a plot. You're kind of wondering what's going to happen. Oh, that's so good. Okay, it's so slow and it's so nuanced and the acting is fantastic and it's just, it's very character driven and it's like it's a blast. And the style there's two seasons. The style and the themes are the same in the sense of like you see these recurring themes and these recurring dynamics and these recurring even the settings. There's lots of water, there's lots of like. It's very cool. It takes me back to, like, my literature degree days where we'd like analyze stuff. There's a writer, richard Yates. He wrote Revolutionary Road. They made that in a movie, same kind of thing where he had this like nuanced ability to create a character. That was so when you're watching it, in my opinion, when I watch it, I completely forget that I'm not watching real people. I mean that I'm not watching.

01:09 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

You forget that you're watching actors and you feel like you're watching real people. Yes, that's the best, because I have a hard time. I cannot. I feel like lately there's so many new shows on like Netflix that pop up and I start it and within the first two minutes, if the acting is even slightly cheesy, cheap, I can't, I can't, even I'm done. So it's really important to me that the acting is like good and the characters are good.

01:35 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Yeah, I think they're making a lot of stuff on Netflix now. That is a little like slightly below the bar.

01:43 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

Yeah.

01:44 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Because they have a lot of money and they're able to produce all these things and they're following, you know, novels kind of based on a novel, by so and so, and that's fine because it's it has the plot there. There it is full circle from the beginning of this conversation. I think a lot of the new Netflix stuff is really plot driven rather than character driven.

02:01 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

Yeah, I just started watching Yellowstone.

02:04 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Oh my gosh.

02:04 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

I've heard that it's good and I think also that it's the characters because, like you just get so in love with them, like you think about them and they're like real people to you and you're invested in who they are and their story and you feel things when it happens to them and when is it?

02:22

on what's it? On Peacock? Oh, okay, but it's also on actual real TV. What do they call that these days? Cable, I don't know, regular telemetry room, normal TV. I was behind because it's already five seasons, so I'm the new season is out on real TV, so I'm catching up, but it's good. And then I just read a book over Christmas that very much same thing. I keep thinking about it and it's been a week since I finished it, and it was the Nightingale. Ooh, it's a World War II story, nazi, yeah, yeah, they're making it into a movie, but that was so good, awesome.

03:00 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

So, yeah, I need to read some more. Just fun stuff, but that's another conversation. I'll lend it to you, ok. Well, we have a question for phototherapy today. As a reminder, if you want to send us something, just send it to helpdesk at photobusinesshelpcom and just title it Phototherapy, so anyone can send us a question. We look forward to hearing from you. Ok, I'm going to read this first part. She sent. This is someone that sent three questions and one, but we're only going to be able to get to one, so I'm going to read the first part.

03:30

I'm listening to the podcast and some ideas came up for me, like brainstorming. I would love opinions and ideas for how to personalize your experience with clients. For example, I thought about getting clients a small gift at the end of the year just to thank them. I'm talking a rather small gift, nothing expensive where I would waste my profits on it, but just something as a little thank you to try and set myself apart.

03:54

I've heard of people getting customized cookies made with their logo on it, or a Christmas ornament with their logo on it, things like that. I mentioned to you and we were kind of reviewing this question that I haven't done gifts for people, unless they've been wedding clients. I used to just fire off like a dozen, three and a half by fives, like with a little white border, like just prints, and tie them together with some ribbon and send them along so they could send. Obviously the photos are them on their wedding day, so they could like hang them on their fridge and it was very low cost. But it was logistically a little tricky because I'd have to wait for them to arrive and order them and all that.

04:36 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

Yep, and then ship them out and all that. My first thought is just why not you try it? You're already coming up with ideas on how to set yourself apart, and why don't you just try a few things and see what feels good and works well? And if it ends up being like too much, then for next year I'm going to try something different, and I was kind of thinking of doing something similar this year, but I didn't. Yeah, that's just like my first thought. Just try it see what happens.

05:06 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

I love that response because I kind of thought that too, you and I have tried so many things over the years and I mean, in addition to the photos, I've tried a bunch of different stuff with gifts for wedding clients and stuff. But yeah, do what feels good to you, what's most in line with what you like to do. If customized cookies sound really fun like, if you're really into food and you know your clients are really into food, do that. There's no wrong answer here. It's really just going to depend on how it works into your workflow and how it feels to you.

05:40 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

Yep, and what fits within budget, if that is something that you need to consider as well. Totally and as far as like setting yourself apart to clients, that gesture does you know it's like, oh fun, she sent us this thing and that does stick in their mind. But the biggest way is obviously happening during the service that you're providing for them. Yeah, the prep before the photo session, how the session goes, how you're helpful to them afterwards, your follow-up, your follow-through, professionalism, all that kind of stuff Like that will set you apart tenfold than an end of the year gift, cause they're not really expecting that, but it's a fun little, surprising thing to get to start the year off. There's yeah, yeah, there's no right or wrong. Totally, do it if it feels good and if not, or you don't get to it, I don't think it'll hurt you in any way.

06:35 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Yeah, I totally agree with you. You set yourself apart from the minute that someone inquires with you. I mean, that's it's in all the little things that add up to someone's vibe of your perception of you, you know, and so I think you could have an awesome gift. Let's play with this a little bit. You could theoretically send them a $500 gift or a $50 gift or a $5 gift, and you're probably not gonna move the needle in the setting yourself apart too far. It's really gonna be an aggregation of everything they've experienced with you. Also, you're sending it to one couple that may or may not ever need or want photos again, so they might refer you if that could be an option. But I don't think the gift itself is what's gonna be setting you apart. If that's what you're kind of looking for like a creative way to be like oh my gosh, this is how I set myself apart. You set yourself apart in a lot of ways throughout the whole process.

07:32 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

Yep totally.

07:33 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Hopefully that made sense, nailed it Well. And the other thing that I thought was interesting is idea number one is brainstorming. I would love opinions on ideas for how to personalize your experience with clients. So this idea of brainstorming I would highly encourage you and Audrey and I you and I started exactly that together. We found that we had similar vibes, similar style, we liked each other, we had worked with each other and met each other in real life in photography world and we were like, let's just chat with each other and see if we can help each other. I think that if you're listening and you are, I mean, we're happy to brainstorm on this show, of course, but find that for yourself as well. Find someone that is in a similar place to you in photography, or seek them out on Facebook or whatever and just say, hey, you wanna jump on a call and see if we can meet once a month and come up with some ideas.

08:31 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

Yep, totally. We just like meet up, what we were doing. We're like let's just chat like every other week and we'll see you in a second talk shop, and like work through things together. And you can absolutely create that for yourself. Find a friend or post in a group and find someone who wants to monthly like do a zoom call or something, and you guys just like go over things you're working on, bounce ideas off each other, vent about things. Yeah, commit to like three months or something and then just see if you want to keep going. If it doesn't feel good, you can stop.

09:02 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Yeah, I find it's been one of the most valuable things I've done in the past couple years. We've gotten, we've helped each other so much. We brought it into Clubhouse for a little while and that was fun, brought more people in. So maybe going to Clubhouse is a place to start to if you're like, where do I start? You know whatever, but there's, there's going to be someone out there that wants to talk shop with you and that's in a similar place in business, because you and I are in such a similar place that we can genuinely help each other. Like, oh, what did you do for your mini session thing in pick time? Again, can you show me that button? You know it's literally gets so granular sometimes because we are on the same page and not with everything. But you know, keep in mind, you maybe want to start there. As far as seeking out someone to chat with, rather than someone that's in a totally different genre or point in their business, that's a good point. It might not be as helpful. I was noticing too, and you know we both look over these questions. But the other two parts to this question one was about knowing your guys's workflow and to see if there's anything else that us people can implement. That might be helpful. And the other idea would be a website audit where we would go over a website and give tips and stuff. And what's interesting is I think there's a couple themes coming up here because we were just talking about, like, try something with the gift and see how it goes workflow. Yes, we could go into great detail about our workflows, which we both do in our like private coaching but it doesn't translate super great to a podcast just like going ticking off all these things. But also it's so personal. Every single photographer that I've ever talked to has a different workflow, every single one. There isn't like a right or wrong way.

10:43

What I would say is where do you feel most sticky and tripped up when you're going through stuff? Is it like, oh, culling is just like hard for me and it feels hard. Or oh, responding to emails just feels like it takes too much time? Like, figure out for yourself what feels kind of the stuff that's feels like smooth sailing and the stuff that doesn't, and just try different things. It's really the same game the whole time is just trying things that work for you. I mean, you and I just try stuff and then we share it and then if it doesn't work, we change it, and if it does, we keep talking about it. So, yep, 100%.

11:22

So I would say, like, as far as workflow goes, I think I think only you know what feels kind of clunky, and then from that space you might be able to even submit a more specific question, like my culling feels so clunky, x, y and z, but to go over a whole workflow we probably don't have time to do that. But it's also so specific to every photographer that that's something you might want to. You know, seek out a mentor or pay someone to do with you one on one, because that's, that's a long process. Totally. I don't know if you have anything to add about that, but I just I saw some themes in these questions and the one is like just trying things. You know, that's how I built my business and how?

12:03 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

like it's just simply trying things and doing one thing after the other. And I totally understand the feeling of like other people know better than I do and have better ways of doing things and if I just know their ways then I'll hit my goals. But that never worked for me. So I just started trying things and not being afraid to not do it right and I did it wrong, a lot and tweaking and adjusting and trying something different, and then that's how you get to where you are trying to go, and seeking out mentors and stuff is important as well. Sometimes you just need somebody to help you put the pieces together or help you see the pieces the way you need to see them. I'm not so much them doing the work for you it's always gonna be you doing the work, but they're guiding you. Yeah, I think trusting yourself and being okay to not do it right until you do get it right is key.

13:03 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Yeah, and I think, too, mentors. In my experience, if you're trying to figure out how to do something like in this case, is there anything that I should implement in my workflow that might be helpful? I don't think a mentor can necessarily answer that for you without knowing where you feel stuck. What a mentor can definitely help you do is also build more confidence and just going out there and trying it and being yourself and building the brand around your own energy and your own vibe. I think you could solve some of this problem too by just asking in groups and stuff. I mean, facebook is, I guess, a place that a lot of us go, but just if there's like if I'm just using Culling as an example but if there's like a sticky, clunky part of your workflow, try a couple different other things that you see other people doing and see how it goes for you, and once you feel like you have like a fairly solid, you know workflow, that might be a good time to seek out a mentor to really help push you to the next level Totally. And as far as website audits and stuff, you and I both offer those in our one-on-one coaching, but it'd be kind of tricky to do it, I think, on a podcast, but that is something I've done in brainstorming groups, in masterminds. So I mean, again, I would say, if you can find another person, or maybe three or four, I've been in a four-person photography mastermind before that we did for like a year and one of the topics was to audit each other's websites, you know, and just say like, hey, as someone who doesn't follow your business closely, this is what I think might work for you.

14:37

So all this to say, I think many of your answers are gonna come from yourself and many of them are gonna come from trying new things. And then, finally, it is invaluable. I mean, it is so priceless to have a person like Audrey and I started, like three years ago, you know, meeting up once, a couple times a month, or a small group of people to just bounce ideas off of Cause. Someone might say, oh, I've tried that before but it didn't really work for me. But if you like shooting newborns, then it might work for you. Yeah, I mean, you're just. Everybody does it differently, every single person does it differently. So there's no magic answer key. It's not like anybody has the answers. I don't know if that sounds dark, but I mean really that's kind of the truth.

15:24

It's just like we're all just trying. Yeah, totally, hopefully that's helpful. It could sound like it's like just trust yourself and find some people to talk to you, but really without working deeply with someone which is what I think one-on-one coaching is, for it's very hard to just sort of help on a really broad scale with something as big as a workflow or a website. Yeah, I'm trying to think there was a resource I came across that was a really good list Like you could. You could Google a list of like things to have in a good website or something Like. Those aren't the right words, but I mean like those lists are super helpful cause they'll be like clear subheadings and a menu and you know they'll. Yeah, I've gone through those lists just on my own to sort of like double check myself and make sure that I have stuff.

16:13 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

So, yeah, Something I heard once that that is good to do for website is to ask somebody older to navigate it. Yeah, and see how easy it is. Like somebody that would be maybe in our parents age group or older who doesn't isn't as tech savvy or I'd even like in a Facebook group for Instagram story has been like does anybody have time or interest in Going through my website and seeing if anything stands out to them? I asked my I'll ask my sister's mom this every time I update something, but then sometimes I'll ask other people and also Like returning the favor to do it for them as well. So you're not just asking someone to do something for you. It's kind of like a give and take. So you offer, like I'll look at your website, you look at mine. Yeah, that would be my best suggestion.

17:05 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Yeah, I literally call one of the exercises in the greenhouse the boomer, baby boomer exercise, because that's my parents generation and I'm like have them look at your website, yeah, see if they know, and give them like three things to do. Can you figure out how to contact me? Can you figure out what I'm selling? Can you figure out you know, like make a list of stuff and have them do it. And, yeah, I think you make a really great point like so, if you're listening to this and Budget is an issue like finding a mentor to help you really dig in all this stuff. One-on-one is an issue like crowd sourcing is the way to go, like Audrey said, like putting it in stories or Asking in a Facebook group. But if you truly want that, like deep, one-on-one Work with someone that's had well, in my case, 13 years of experience or whatever like, if you really want like mentors eyes on it, I think you just have to be prepared to pay for it. You know, I mean we're obviously giving a ton of free advice Because we love doing this on the show, but there's stuff that I think Crosses into. You're gonna get more value if you feel like you really need a mentor on your side, and that's generally something I think people have to be prepared to pay for. But there's tons of ways you can get this feedback Without without the investment.

18:17

Yes, ma'am, yeah, I feel like that's. I think we've covered that one, but yay, hopefully that was helpful. I always feel like I'm talking in circles, but hopefully there's a couple of good points in there. I don't know, and, once again, if you want to send us a question about your business and I think so the last two questions we answered were pretty lengthy. I think we should just remind folks to try and be as concise with one question as possible, because otherwise for us it's really hard to get to stuff. So we're trying to honor everybody's Questions and get to everything but one question. Try and be as concise as you can and send it to help desk at photobusinesshelpcom and Title it phototherapy, and we will Get to it.

18:59 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

Yeah, buddy.

19:00 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Anything else? No, we did it All right. I'm hitting the button. Talk to you soon, bye, bye.