Welcome to another episode of Turning the Table.

Just myself again, Jim Taylor here.

This time Adam Lem is still on a little bit of lead, but he'll be back soon.

Can't wait to have him back in the show today.

We've got a really good episode and some really cool conversation coming up.

We've got the c o of.

L Furniture Warehouse.

His name's Kirk Spanks and uh, he's got some really good insight

in terms of just how to look at things a little bit differently

when it comes to the business model.

So we'll bring him into the show in a second here.

Looking forward to some good conversation and away we go.

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Kirk, welcome to the show.

How you doing?

Hey, good

morning, Jim.

It's, uh, it's been a little while since we had a chance to chat, but

just for everybody who's, who is potentially listening right now or

might join us later, Kirk and I have had the chance to work together on a

few different projects in the past, and hopefully there's some cool takeaways

about El Furniture Warehouse because I've been bugging you to have a,

somebody write a formal case study.

About EL furniture and the way you guys operate for a long time,

cuz I think you guys do things in a really unique and cool way.

So may, can you just start by telling everybody what's El Furniture Warehouse?

What's the story?

How'd you get involved?

Maybe just give us an intro there.

Sure.

I appreciate the compliment for sure.

We started in 2003.

We opened a first sort of, we'll call it a, we'll call it a dive bar, but it

was our own little sort of adventure, I guess, for our friends to get together.

Uh, we wanted a place where we could hang out and I guess, uh, If I was

gonna say what we did it for it, I just didn't wanna pay for my tab anymore.

I don't think it's some way to make it, make it disappear.

When we started that in 2003 with no real intention to grow into a bunch of

restaurants or or bars here in Vancouver, just a place for us to hang out and have

some fun.

Yeah.

And the first one was in Vancouver, right?

Correct.

Yeah.

Gramble and Nelson Street.

And now you're across Canada and in the US market.

Yeah, we've got, we've got stores in Victoria all the way to Quebec City.

And then we do have one store in the US in Seattle.

Yeah.

Cool.

And.

Kirk and I were talking about this earlier about the concept or the

term dive bar because personally based on experience, I think that

you guys are actually the coolest and best dive bar chain I've ever seen.

I don't know how many actually exist, but the way that you

guys operate is pretty cool.

I, I think one of the topics that we wanted to get into on the

podcast today was just everybody is looking at the restaurant.

Sort of business model and what's going on with labor shortages and inflation

and cost of good and all this stuff.

Right?

Everybody's talking about how costs are rising and many prices are rising and

can you just talk a little bit about just how our furniture warehouse looks at or

how what your personal take is on the way the model in the business has changed?

Cuz it's totally different now than it was even like two years ago.

Yeah, I look at where we started in 2003.

We definitely took on an approach to building restaurants and growing in that

space with the information that we had.

You know, have your traditional sort of, this is what the labor

percentage should be, or this is what your food cost should be.

And in an industry that has just such razor sharp sort of margins,

you had to be really predictable, I guess you could say, in the choices

that you made in that sort of space.

And I think we're in a, in a space where we're being forced to.

Maybe take a little bit more of a risk in order to come up with

solutions that give us an opportunity, again at this particular time.

So you're looking at menu price increases.

I'm trying to be creative.

In how we don't pass on that cost to, to your guests and make sure that going out

is still an affordable thing for us to do.

Yeah.

And see more people being social.

That's what our model has been really built on, is to make sure that people

have a place that they can go more often, still get out, be social, have fun with

friends, and especially after a pretty wild, crazy three years of being isolated.

That's even more important to everybody now.

Yeah.

And I, we were just talking about this a few minutes ago about there's

a wage increase coming in one of the markets that you guys operate in, and

are you gonna increase your prices?

And you basically, you said no.

Right?

And because you don't wanna pass that on to the customer.

And I think that there's, it's, that's a really interesting sort of take on what's

happening or what you guys are planning on doing, because if I asked a hundred

operators across Canada, What they would do if minimum wage went up, I'd bet 99

of them now, cause I've asked you, 99 of them would probably say, we're either

gonna raise prices or we're gonna just cut harder in order to maintain a margin.

So the fact that you guys are, are taking a bit of a different stance on that,

it just, to me, from a, from an outside perspective and someone that hasn't worked

in your company, worked with, but not in, it sets you guys apart in the industry.

I just think you guys do things in such a cool way.

Yeah.

To that point, there's just so many different line items that go into the

total sort of restaurant mix on how you operate that you brought up a point

of cutting harder in that labor space.

We don't wanna sacrifice the customer service side of it, but we've been.

Really lucky in some of the technology advances that we've

made over the last three years.

Cutting costs from menu prints and maybe leaning a little bit harder into QR codes

and those sort of spaces to make that experience just as good, but not maybe

so heavily on the cost side of things.

Looking at our team that we have here, we're lucky because we have a little

bit more from a resource standpoint on how we attack, or we have people there

that are openly thinking or constantly thinking about different ways that we

can innovate, look at different volumes to help our food programs so that

we don't have to pass that cost on.

We have to work a little bit harder on the back end, but I think that.

For us, we're leaning harder into let's make it more accessible and more

affordable for folks so that use us for their kind of social experiences.

So for those that don't know about El Furniture Warehouse, can you tell

us what the pricing model is like?

What's the most expensive thing on the menu or what that threshold is?

Because I think people will find that interesting.

Yeah.

Right now we don't have anything that's $10.

And when you look at it, it's not $10 a la carte.

It is the entire meal.

If it's a burger, it's burger and fries.

We don't have to.

Add bacon or cheese in order to get that.

The works Burger is a bacon cheeseburger with fries, and it still comes in under

10 bucks Every meal that our chef team prepares, it goes under the mentality

of, can this be a standalone meal?

If you just wanted to order the one plate, would you be satisfied?

Does it give you the right sort of feeling that you got great value out of

that and it's 10 bucks less, 10 bucks?

Someone.

I was talking to a guy a couple days ago who was telling me that he went to Subway,

ordered two, two sub combos, right?

Foot long sub and chips and a drink, two of them, and it was 48 bucks, what?

48 bucks.

So the thing that amazes me is that you can go to a full service restaurant that

has wicked vibe and a good server and.

Have a drink and a burger and fries.

And your burger fries is 10 bucks.

It's totally counterintuitive, but anyway, that's why I'm

just trying fan of you guys.

Yeah, we've always, I, that's a, that's a good spot for a story.

I think we look at what we just talked about in trying to be

predictive and planning to what.

Changes we need to make in order to make sure that our

business success is successful.

I go back to how we got started in more of an expansion phase and where

we found ourselves with a, I guess you could say a, an opportunity to grow,

but it didn't happen out of being.

Really innovative thinking per se.

It happened on a necessity and the risk that we were forced to take in that space.

Our first stores were in BC here, and if anybody who lives and works and operates

a restaurant in BC in the early two thousands, liquor licensing was very

stark or very uh, Defined when you had a food restaurant, a license, and you

had a liquor primary license, which made operating those two spaces very distinct

and running more of a dive bar, small little space in an entertainment district

like Granville Street you had surrounded by nightclubs that were all pining and

getting, trying to get the exact same kinda guests that we were competing for.

Uh, And so we got into a lot of, I guess you'd say, trouble in that first 10 years.

A lot of letters to the liquor board saying we were operating outside of

what our license was, allowing us to food sales, I will say at that

particular time, weren't the highest, uh, really tough to get your friends.

On a Friday night to eat a nachos or a burger when they've just come from a

restaurant and they're just looking for, for a few beers and an extra couple of

shots, definitely out of necessity for us.

We ended up in 2009, 2010 there.

We got our store shut down for 30 days and only having one restaurant

to really could have pay the bills.

We were really forced to, uh, Make some decisions like, and naturally

what you would expect from some pretty smart beer drinking operators.

We, we decided to go to Vegas for four days and really drown our sorrows.

Uh, but we did come back.

We came back with something and we tried every trick in the book to

try to circumvent what the liquor board was saying and serving food.

We were giving food away, leaving plates on tables to make it look

like we, we were serving food.

Um, We were, we, if you ordered a drink, you got a free plate of food.

There was a lot of smoke and mirrors around how we were trying to make it

look like we were operating correctly.

But that point for us, we.

I'll shut down for 30 days and we had to reinvent ourselves.

And all of that money or any of the kind of thought pattern behind our

food program went right back into our food program and that's where we said

we will make sure that people get the best meal that they cannot say no to.

And that wow value of being able to come to the warehouse and and get a meal for

that really affordable price was our sole mission for that next two or three years.

Rolling all of my resources back into that food program to make sure that we

stayed in the good books with the liquor board and it just so happened we'll

save by luck that it actually worked.

Um, and that opportunity for people to enjoy a good meal on a, on a budget and

get out and be social, really caught fire.

And we saw a lot of folks take to it as we expanded to Quebec City in Toronto

and now into kinda the Edmonton area.

And we've been really lucky

that way.

So your advice is if things are going sideways in the business, go to Vegas

for a few days, do some brainstorming,

try to forget about it, and then you'll come up with something.

I'm sure that's, that's definitely the model, but a little bit of luck there for

sure.

Yeah.

Very cool.

And yeah, and if anybody who's listening is in one of these markets, we get a

lot of people listening in the US too.

You're only in Seattle, I think, but we are right

now just in Seattle.

If you haven't been to one of the locations, the food is really good.

Right?

I think that's, it's just a cool story to see how that whole thing went.

Shifting gears a little bit, QR codes.

There's a lot of discussion and I'm curious just your

personal thoughts on this.

There's a lot of discussion about the hospitality side of the restaurant

industry and people, a lot of operators I hear saying, we're gonna

go back to printed menus because it's what the customer wants.

It's about part of the experience, it's the hospitality side of things.

And then you hear the other side of the conversation about speed and

efficiency and productivity and data.

You know the amount of information that you have access to using QR codes.

So part of it's about the cost of the menu, but I don't know, what's your

thought on the hospitality versus.

Speed efficiency information inside of that discussion.

Personally, I'm not, we're not a big, I'm not a big data collector in that space.

We don't do a lot of email campaigning.

We don't do any of those sort of marketing initiatives, so it's

never been about data collection.

I think for us, we have a very regular.

Sort of clientele.

Uh, somebody who may frequent the warehouse because it's affordable

may come two or three times a week.

So we have a, a base menu that gets onto a print space, but the ability to shift

and offer short term limited offers, features, those sort of things makes

it way easier for us to shift, switch gears to what our people are asking for.

To try things to see if they work.

So for us, I think that little bit of hybrid I think is important.

I love, touch, feel, the whole experience of having a menu dropped off and, uh, And

going through the whole process because that's the routine that I've been, I

guess you could say trained to expect.

Yeah.

Uh, so I think there's a little bit of customer training that has to go on with

how comfortable they are with QR codes and what that experience is, but I think

from a flexibility standpoint, I think it gives operators an us a lot of opportunity

here To switch gears quickly without looking at the incurred cost of doing a

menu print.

Yep.

Agreed.

Do you guys take payment on QR code too?

We don't do that.

No.

Yeah.

Now, and I agree with you.

I think that my personal stance on it is that there's way more opportunity

that exists in using a QR code, whether it's for payment or ordering

or data or whatever, and back.

I'm not sure what happened there.

We'll cut out some of that.

We'll can edit it.

I think the, anyways, the QR code thing, I think there's just, there's

so much opportunity in that side of things as long as people can wrap

their head around the fact that.

Not having a menu isn't the end of the world, especially casual, fun dining

for sure.

Yeah.

So what's on the docket for L Furniture Warehouse for the next year?

Where do you see the concept sort of model fitting into the way the industry's going?

What do you think?

Um,

where's our focus?

Focus, uh.

I think this is the first year that we'll have our full operation and full hours.

In three years and how our business has changed is we learned

or we found new patio seats.

And when we went to the drawing board to look at patio seasons this year,

our business footprint, number of seats that we have available to us, it was

probably about 75% bigger than our traditional sort of, Winter bottle.

So for us, big focus here is really trying to maximize that space and everybody now

has a, a patio in a unique space and has an opportunity to capitalize on that.

So everybody's still gonna be vying for the exact same workforce too.

Now, for us, that is a, it's a big focus when you look at

almost doubling your, your.

Workforce doubling or your ability to be competitive.

So everybody's buying for the same sort of resources.

That's our and.

Bit of a curve ball for you, but I think you'll have a good idea on this.

I think of the conversation around what are the risks or the threats

or the, all the scary stuff going on in our industry right now I think

dominates a lot of the conversation.

So I wanted to spin and ask, what do you think is the biggest

opportunity in our industry right now?

What's the upside to what's going on right now?

Cause it's changing.

Oh gosh.

Back if you want, but it's, I think there's so much, personally,

I think there's so much potential in our industry, so I always

want to know what people think.

Good.

Yeah.

Good question.

I my, what pops into my head right away.

This is the first podcast or restaurant based, I guess you could say.

Information session that I've worked with.

So looking at the number of resources that are available for people to ask

questions, to find different ways of thinking are way more accessible than

they ever have been being in this industry for the last 20 years as an

operator, as a, as an entrepreneur, it has always been a very difficult.

Space to gather information, get information, trade

secrets, those sorts of things.

Those things are very highly protected.

And from me for the first time, I feel that the resource network of how we

think about things differently and how we get that information is way more

open to anybody who's maybe sitting in their small single restaurant kind

of go, what do I do in this situation?

Yeah.

Uh, so for me, the ability to go out and find the answers that you're

looking for or find somebody even have a conversation about what to do next.

Uh, for their business has never been more wide open and way more opportunity

for people to, to keep their business going and not feel that they're at that

tipping point of, I don't know what to do.

I'm gonna close my shop, or I guess in my case, run off to Vegas and,

and have a couple extra beers.

If you're, and you're right about the, the trade secret or the recipe or

whatever it might be for, especially in some of the markets that you operate in.

Vancouver being one of them.

It's like hoard information, right?

Nobody tell anybody what anybody's doing.

Totally.

I agree.

I think there's starting to be more discussion.

There's starting to be more idea sharing.

There's starting to be more resource.

That's what we're trying to do is provide, I'm turning the table here.

We're trying to provide insights and ideas and thoughts for anybody

who's running a restaurant, whether they run a little cafe in.

A small town or they run a multi-unit in a big city, and I think just providing.

Like you said, just ideas and ways for people to think about doing

things differently is part of hopefully moving things forward.

So yeah, that's

good.

Yeah, and like even for folks that are looking for that information

that maybe don't know where to look, the Restaurant Canada Food

Show that they just did last week.

I think in Toronto there, I didn't actually attend this show, but the

resources that I found on the actual website, people's PowerPoint decks

and those sorts of things that are just left there for people to discover

and use as they might see fit.

Whether it's, I think the biggest takeaway or biggest one I found

there was they gave away all the.

Secrets on menu design.

But as somebody who's been in this industry for a long time, that was a, that

was a definitely something that people paid good money for to try to figure

out where they should be putting items or how they should be looking out how

their menu is broken down or structured.

What a cool resource to just be able to go on the website without having to buy

a ticket or make their trip to Toronto.

Your person in Belmont BC can have that information if

they're still looking for it.

That's definitely a big opportunity for our industry.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, and I was at the show and it was, it was the best it's ever been.

I think it was a really positive sort of attitude and outlook and like you said,

whether it's on the website or they were talking about it in at the actual show.

It was just very much, it just felt collaborative and it felt,

let's move the whole industry forward together, and it felt.

A bit of a breath of fresh air in terms of, like you said, for the last

three years, it hasn't been normal.

Mm-hmm.

Um, I think I definitely agree with you the, and obviously

like I said, we're trying to accomplish the same thing, right.

Provide more insights and information.

One thing we talked about a little bit earlier, if there were a couple things,

1, 2, 3 things that you would encourage anybody who's in the restaurant space,

again, whether they run a little cafe or a multi-unit, to start thinking about.

And maybe that they could actually even do as quickly as, okay, this

weekend, how are we gonna start to look at things differently?

Do you have any thoughts on, on a couple of takeaways for people,

how can you look at things differently?

Um, I think probably.

Some of the work that you are doing I think is pretty innovative.

We talked about minimum wage changes and how people look at how

we're gonna manage those costs.

Your, your.

Thought process on keeping it people centric and looking at covers versus

your kind of standard labor percentage, I think is a good tool that people

are looking for some way to comment that minimum wage idea without just

increasing the prices on their menu.

Take a few risks

as crazy as that.

Uh, that sounds we're in a scary time and I know that's hard to.

To do, but people are looking for new, people are looking for exciting.

People are looking for things to talk about.

So if you do have an idea or whatever, put it in front of your friends and family.

Put it in front of your, the people that you trust here and,

and run it up the flag pulling rather than keeping it to yourself.

All ideas right now are really great, and we saw that coming outta Covid.

People had really brilliant ideas and if you haven't leaned into

the delivery side of it, we.

Stayed back from it a little bit just because our price point didn't give us the

room to, to activate or use it very well.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, but we found a way it reaches more customers for sure.

Yeah.

So looking at just the current climate of inflation, minimum wage changes, those are

three kind of big things that I would look

at.

Yeah.

And, and I think you're, to add a fourth that you already mentioned is, look out,

look outside your four walls for resource.

Right.

Yeah, you're bang on.

There's just more information and accessibility to new ideas

and ways of doing things than there ever has been before.

I'm sure Restaurants Canada, appreciate the plug from you there

and I appreciate the, the kind words about the work that we're doing

too.

Absolutely.

For sure.

So any final sort of words or, or thoughts?

Kirk, it's been awesome having you on the show.

I appreciate you making some time.

Hey.

Yeah, I wouldn't say I have anything inspiring, but we are up for

some, some really great weather.

But we're definitely looking forward to hockey season in the playoffs right now.

I hope everybody has a lot of fun over the next kind of a few 4, 5, 6 months, cuz

they've all deserved it.

Yep.

Time for patios, right?

We were talking about the 30 degree weather that happened in Toronto

a couple weeks ago, and we're due, I think here in the West Coast.

It's gonna start tomorrow, up next week.

So hopefully we get those patio open, but yeah.

Thanks again.

It's always so good to talk to you and we'll have to

catch up in person here soon.

But until next time, appreciate you everybody who's either listening.

Facebook, YouTube, LinkedIn.

We'll be live every week here, so we'll be back next Thursday.

And again, this will get converted over here shortly onto anywhere

you might find your podcast.

So thanks again, Kirk.

Wicked to see you, and thanks for the chat.

Thanks for joining us on this episode of Turning the Table with

me, Adam Lamb and Jim Taylor.

We're on a mission to change the food and beverage industry for the better by

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