Speaker: 00:00:00

The Anabaptist movement

began and continues to have high ideals.

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People are often attracted

to these high ideals, but what are some of

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the challenges and opportunities

that come along with that?

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Samantha,

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welcome back

to the Anabaptist Perspectives podcast.

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It's been a long time

since we've done this. Wow.

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So a few things have changed,

but maybe for a little bit of context

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for our listeners.

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We interviewed you, like, I don't know,

2018 or something like that way back.

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You sharing your testimony

of joining the Anabaptist Church

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and that is our most watched and listened

to episode, interestingly enough.

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For whatever reason. I know it, yeah.

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Your story

really struck a chord with people and

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in that process

we've had a number of conversations

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and different ones on the team about some

of the things that that has brought up

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and questions about what it means

when someone joins the anabaptist movement

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and the challenges that surround that.

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So this episode will jump into that

and I'm really looking forward to hearing

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what you have to share.

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So without further ado, I think

I'll just go for the first question

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and let's see what we have here.

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So as one who joined the Mennonite church,

and you didn't originally

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grow up in the Anabaptist movement,

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what are some of the biggest challenges?

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And I'm thinking

like cultural assimilation

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that you encountered in that process.

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I think I might answer it a little more

generally, just from observations

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I've seen.

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But ultimately,

I think it would be good for

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people to recognize that it's going to be,

if you're coming in as like a family,

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it's going to be easier for young people

to assimilate into,

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I'm going to use the word Mennonite

probably more than Anabaptist

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because Anabaptist is really broad

and my experience is Mennonite,

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but it's going to be easier

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to assimilate into an anabaptist culture

as a young person

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Just because they're more adaptable

and they just tend to assimilate easier.

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Like any time you take a family

to another culture, like foreign

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missionaries or something, the kids

typically learn the language faster.

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They make friends quicker

because kids just adapt better.

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And so like older single people,

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couples coming in on their own, whatever.

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Like generally adults

are going to have a harder time

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assimilating

because we tend to get more set

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in our ways and things are just harder

to adjust to than it is for young people.

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And the younger people

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are also going to have more opportunities

to integrate through.

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Like if you put them in church school

or if they go to volunteer service

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or Bible schools or youth group,

like all those things

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where they have opportunities

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to interact with the community

on a relationship level,

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whereas adults

have to work a little harder

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because there

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aren't as many things like that set up

unless you get intentionally involved

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with like sewing circle or like men's

groups, like those kinds of things.

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So I think it's good to recognize

for the grown ups

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that they probably are going

to have to put in more relational work

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than the young people will.

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than the young people will.

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Just out of curiosity, what

age would have you been when ya’ll joined?

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I think I was about 14.

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Okay.

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So that, that's a really interesting point

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you make, because I'm

guessing in the teens, early 20 years,

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there's a lot more of those options,

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I guess with like youth group

and Bible school and all of that.

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Did you see that in your own experience

versus,

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you know, say

if you would have joined as an adult?

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Yeah,

it's like you can kind of grow into it.

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So like my parents would have had a harder

time assimilating than us kids

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just because that's

the nature of children.

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Like we just adapt and are just yeah,

we do that more easily than grown ups do.

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And so I guess to not be frustrated

by that process and to recognize

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it may just take a while.

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Yeah, I think that's.

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I think back to this idea of ideals.

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You know,

the Anabaptist movement does definitely

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have some ideals and can be like, Well,

these are the ideals.

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It'll be great.

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But the cultural element

is what you're kind of getting at.

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Like, the cultural element

can just be really hard,

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just for all the practical reasons of,

I don’t know, not quite cross-cultural

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interactions, but almost like it almost

feels like in some ways like, is that

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does that resonate at all

with, with your experience?

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Like, I've heard other people describe it

like that,

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the assimilation process is just like this

Culture is just different.

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Right.

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So I guess an example I thought of

is how so, like we're all Americans.

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But if you think about like Chicago

or New Orleans,

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L.A., New York,

like they're all big American cities,

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but you can't go from one to the other

and expect it to be the same

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because they have different historical

backgrounds, different local economies,

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different ethnic diversity,

like they are all big American cities,

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but they are all culturally

different from each other.

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And so like, it's the same across churches

and even our Anabaptist

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churches, there's like subcultures

within subcultures.

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So you have to just kind of get to know

people for who they are,

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not basing your expectations of them

on generalized stereotypes.

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Like you can't expect

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every mennonite church

to be like every other mennonite church.

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And I guess an example I thought of.

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So where I'm living now in the Midwest,

we have a fairly large Amish community,

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but it's somewhat different

than others because, in our community,

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if you decide to leave the Amish church,

they're okay with that.

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It's still not an easy thing

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and there's still struggles

with that relationally, whatever.

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But they're okay

if people choose to leave,

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if they join, some kind of Anabaptist

flavored church, even if it's liberal.

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So I don't know if they actually practice

shunning or not.

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Like if you would join a

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Catholic church or a Baptist church,

like something not anabaptist,

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but they have a lot more grace

than some other communities would.

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Where if you leave, you're just shunned.

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And so, yeah,

I think it's, really important

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when you're looking at joining

any kind of anabaptist church

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to not go in with generalizations of like

I've heard about this,

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so they must be just like that

because they're probably not like

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you have to get to know

the church for who they are

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because they're going

to have their own subculture as Anabaptist

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because of where they're located

or what their background is,

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and giving people

grace to get to know them.

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So it's,

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there's a lot of layers

and cultural complexities are just,

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I don't know,

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whenever you get a lot of people together,

it gets complicated and, I guess

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that's the experience with every church,

which makes me think of, okay,

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you know, on this

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what we do here

at Anabaptist Perspectives,

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we regularly hear from people from other

church backgrounds for various reasons,

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sometimes they have questions

or sometimes they're like,

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I want to be on Anabaptist

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or Hey, I really appreciate

what you're doing here,

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even though I'm from a different church

tradition.

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But one thing I've noticed is, okay,

whether it's Catholic or evangelical or,

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you know, Pentecostal or Protestant or,

you know, take your pick of all the slices

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of Christians out there, those that try

to join or join the Anabaptist movement

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or a mennonite

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church say,

they come in with some pretty high ideals

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of like this is, you know,

whatever they joined for a reason,

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you know, because they see something there

that they want.

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Can you talk to some of those high ideals

that people may have from the outside

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coming in?

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Yeah. So.

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Yeah.

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One thing I have definitely seen

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over the years, specifically

in a certain period of my life

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when we were in a fairly conservative

community for a couple of years,

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we weren't part of that,

but we were living in it is,

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we'll just call them the English, like non

Anabaptist background.

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People had

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almost put the local conservative people,

which would have been Amish Mennonite.

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But this can happen in like larger Amish

communities or whatever, and they just

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basically make idols out of them.

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They always speak well of them,

which is good.

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But I’m not just talking character trait.

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Like they look at their lives

and they just see that it's just,

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it just looks so perfect

because they're living these quiet,

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simple lives and it's so attractive and so

countercultural and it's just beautiful.

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And it's like, you know, we want to just,

you know, ride horse and buggy.

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It looks so quiet

and just like all these things that people

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are dissatisfied with their own lives

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because maybe they're too busy or like too

involved with the world or whatever.

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And so they look at,

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I'm going to use Amish for an example,

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because that's

a drastic cultural difference.

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But they look at that and they're like,

I could be Amish.

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And inside I would just be like, No,

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I met a couple of different people over

the years like, well I could be Amish?

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And it's like, my response to

them is like, you could probably do

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the lifestyle, but living in

their communities is a whole nother story.

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Like it gets complicated

and community is hard.

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It's a blessing,

but you got to work for it

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and in our very individualistic

American society,

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having to work together as a group,

especially in a religious setting,

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just doesn't jive.

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It's hard.

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Yeah, there was someone from the Bruderhof

was talking about community one time

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and he was like, you know, when the Bible

says to forgive one another.

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And it's in the context of brotherhood.

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He's like, That means things will happen

where we have to forgive each other.

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It means

we're not always going to do things right.

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And so it's like if, yeah, if you want to

look at being Amish or Mennonite,

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whatever, like you have to be ready

not just for the lifestyle

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and the external changes,

but the community life and the

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accountability that that will bring.

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So it's really important to remember

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coming into an Anabaptist community,

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not just Amish

now, but like, broader Anabaptists

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that it's like,

yeah, there's things about it

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that I want to be attractive,

preferably based on

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scriptural basis things, but

I know the externals are also attractive

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because they're countercultural

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and there's something

appealing about that, and that's not bad,

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but it's really important for,

I guess we're calling them seekers,

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non Anabaptist background people

when they're coming in

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to remember that they are coming

into a community of fallen people.

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it doesn’t matter what Christian community

you go into,

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whatever they call themselves,

they're all still fallen people

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and like as Anabaptist.

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It's like, yes,

we do value the external expressions of

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obedience and orderliness and cleanliness

and things

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like that, like our well-kept homes

and our well-kept yards

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and like all these things,

like we value those things

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because it's an expression

of our internal faith,

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but we are still fallen

people redeemed by the blood,

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but we are still in the same

spiritual warfare

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as every other Christian,

where we have to battle against temptation

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and walking in love

when sometimes we walk out of pride

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and all these things

that just make us human.

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So yeah, that's one of my biggest pet

peeves is when people come into Anabaptist

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churches with these idolized ideals

about them, and it's like, I'm glad you're

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attracted to it, but don't expect us

to have it all together, because we don't.

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We're still people

and we're still going to make mistakes.

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And if you're going to come into a close

knit community, you have to be willing

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to work through those things and give people lots of grace and be humble yourself.

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So when you join

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an anabaptist church like we will

welcome you, hopefully.

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I’ve heard stories, but,

you know, we'll welcome you.

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But yeah, don't expect us to have

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everything all tidy and neat.

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Our children misbehave like

we have dirty dishes and all these things.

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But yeah,

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it's more about coming,

choosing to come alongside with us

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and walking a journey of redemption

together,

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not just making things look good

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We value the externals,

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but we don't do those to hide the inside.

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We don't try to look good on the outside

to hide what's going on inside.

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That's why we live in community

and we talk about things

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most of the time

because we're still fallen people

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and it can be hard

to admit our problems. But

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yeah, I think that would be

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one of my biggest pet peeves is

we are just, we are still people.

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And it's just hard when you get

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a lot of people trying to do this thing

called church together.

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You're just going to,

there's a lot of dynamics there,

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no matter how you slice it,

because humans are complicated.

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Right. And yeah, I think I've seen yeah.

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What you're saying there

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where there's a sense of,

you guys must have it all figured out.

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00:12:38,674 --> 00:12:44,847

It's like,

I don't think that's really true,

241

00:12:44,930 --> 00:12:46,599

Yeah, that's that's really good.

242

00:12:46,599 --> 00:12:47,808

And so that actually

243

00:12:47,808 --> 00:12:50,644

goes along really well

with the next question I had, which is,

244

00:12:50,644 --> 00:12:53,481

you know, some have made this observation

and I personally have noticed

245

00:12:53,481 --> 00:12:54,523

this as well,

246

00:12:54,523 --> 00:12:58,486

that you have all these people that join

or want to join the Anabaptist

247

00:12:58,486 --> 00:13:01,614

Church and yeah, maybe they’ll

attend a mennonite church for a few years.

248

00:13:01,614 --> 00:13:04,658

They'll get involved

and then they just kind of leave.

249

00:13:04,658 --> 00:13:05,951

They just kind of

250

00:13:05,951 --> 00:13:11,499

go back to another church

and that's that, they don't actually stay.

251

00:13:11,582 --> 00:13:12,583

And that concerns me.

252

00:13:12,583 --> 00:13:16,796

And I'd be really curious

what you had to say about that.

253

00:13:16,796 --> 00:13:17,046

And I'd be really curious

what you had to say about that.

254

00:13:17,129 --> 00:13:18,964

So thinking about that one, I thought of

255

00:13:18,964 --> 00:13:23,302

four key things that I've heard

over the years from different people

256

00:13:23,385 --> 00:13:27,515

just talking to people about reasons

they would have left.

257

00:13:27,598 --> 00:13:29,433

One of them

258

00:13:29,433 --> 00:13:33,437

that I heard word for word twice

259

00:13:33,521 --> 00:13:35,940

from two different people

from two different communities

260

00:13:35,940 --> 00:13:37,817

who are both not anabaptist background.

261

00:13:37,817 --> 00:13:41,612

One would have been a Hispanic fella

and the other would have been, we’ll

262

00:13:41,612 --> 00:13:45,074

just say a white person,

but a typical English person.

263

00:13:45,157 --> 00:13:47,910

But they both said, and I think these were

264

00:13:47,910 --> 00:13:50,913

at more conservative churches,

if that makes a difference.

265

00:13:51,121 --> 00:13:53,707

But they both had been attending

266

00:13:53,707 --> 00:13:56,919

and had been told by a fellow

267

00:13:57,002 --> 00:14:01,048

Mennonite background church member,

You will never be a real Mennonite.

268

00:14:01,131 --> 00:14:03,092

And they did not say it.

269

00:14:03,092 --> 00:14:06,887

I don't, I mean, I wasn't there,

but I don't believe it was said unkindly.

270

00:14:06,971 --> 00:14:09,765

But in that person's mind

they were thinking bloodlines,

271

00:14:09,765 --> 00:14:14,562

because anabaptists are very like,

bloodlines genetics, like

272

00:14:14,645 --> 00:14:16,355

who are your people?

273

00:14:16,355 --> 00:14:19,233

Because they can trace that

which is a blessing.

274

00:14:19,233 --> 00:14:21,443

But that is.

275

00:14:21,443 --> 00:14:23,654

A very unfortunate thing

to say to a seeker,

276

00:14:23,654 --> 00:14:26,365

because then they're like,

Well, I'm never going to fit in

277

00:14:26,365 --> 00:14:28,534

because I'm never going

to be a real Mennonite.

278

00:14:28,534 --> 00:14:32,413

So they get discouraged

and then they just tap out

279

00:14:32,496 --> 00:14:34,832

because they're like, Well, I can't

280

00:14:34,832 --> 00:14:37,293

be like, you

281

00:14:37,293 --> 00:14:40,129

If there's one thing that I would love

282

00:14:40,129 --> 00:14:44,633

to be understood by seekers and Mennonite

283

00:14:44,717 --> 00:14:47,219

background,

or anabaptist background people alike,

284

00:14:47,219 --> 00:14:50,472

I think it's really, really important

for us to remember that.

285

00:14:50,472 --> 00:14:56,478

Anabaptism is first and foremost

a faith culture and not an ethnic culture.

286

00:14:56,562 --> 00:14:58,898

fact that anabaptist background people

287

00:14:58,898 --> 00:15:03,068

can trace their roots back

for generations is a huge blessing,

288

00:15:03,068 --> 00:15:06,071

and it's just proof of the faithfulness

of the Word of God

289

00:15:06,071 --> 00:15:08,908

as it's passed on to generations.

That's a good thing.

290

00:15:08,908 --> 00:15:12,703

So we should cherish that

and see that as a blessing.

291

00:15:12,786 --> 00:15:17,207

But it doesn't

matter what your Christian orientation

292

00:15:17,207 --> 00:15:21,045

is, whether you know, evangelical,

Pentecostal, you know, whatever,

293

00:15:21,128 --> 00:15:23,547

just because you're born into

that does not make you so.

294

00:15:23,547 --> 00:15:26,050

We have to choose that for ourself.

295

00:15:26,050 --> 00:15:28,844

So just because you're born

into a conservative Mennonite family

296

00:15:28,844 --> 00:15:31,680

and you cover and wear the cape dress

and like all these external things,

297

00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,851

you are not an Anabaptist just because

you are born into that family.

298

00:15:36,060 --> 00:15:38,520

You have to choose that for yourself.

299

00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:42,107

So something that different people

have told me over the years, like, yeah,

300

00:15:42,191 --> 00:15:46,153

it's such a blessing for you

to not be from an Anabaptist background

301

00:15:46,153 --> 00:15:49,239

or mennonite background family,

because you had to do your own

302

00:15:49,239 --> 00:15:53,243

research and study and choose

to believe this based on scripture alone.

303

00:15:53,243 --> 00:15:55,996

And I'm like... So.

304

00:15:55,996 --> 00:15:58,332

That shouldn't be any different for you.

305

00:15:58,415 --> 00:15:58,999

I mean, you may

306

00:15:58,999 --> 00:16:01,961

be raised with that knowledge

in a way that I maybe wasn't,

307

00:16:02,086 --> 00:16:05,089

but your decisions to do it

should be the same basis,

308

00:16:05,214 --> 00:16:09,093

not just because it's handed down to you,

but because you've chosen to believe it,

309

00:16:09,093 --> 00:16:12,721

because Scripture says so,

and you believe it to be true.

310

00:16:12,846 --> 00:16:17,309

Not just because someone hands it to you.

311

00:16:17,393 --> 00:16:19,895

That's a, I could see that

312

00:16:19,895 --> 00:16:23,148

being a very easy thing to say for someone

to say that and not really think about.

313

00:16:23,232 --> 00:16:26,318

Yeah, Like, that should be

314

00:16:26,318 --> 00:16:29,822

all of us instead of it

just being this kind of.

315

00:16:29,905 --> 00:16:31,198

Yeah,

316

00:16:31,198 --> 00:16:33,450

that gives the impression

that this is just like a cultural thing

317

00:16:33,450 --> 00:16:37,579

that we're just kind of inherit,

kind of just by default.

318

00:16:37,621 --> 00:16:41,834

That, comes back to that original comment

you said that these two people had heard

319

00:16:41,917 --> 00:16:43,919

you'll never be, what it was,

you will never be a real mennonite

320

00:16:43,919 --> 00:16:44,712

or something like that.

321

00:16:44,712 --> 00:16:48,465

You know,

that's wow, that's pretty intense.

322

00:16:48,465 --> 00:16:51,218

Like that shows a underlying

323

00:16:51,301 --> 00:16:53,137

bias there.

324

00:16:53,137 --> 00:16:55,264

You know,

that makes me very uncomfortable.

325

00:16:55,264 --> 00:16:57,808

I guess It is kind of funny, though.

326

00:16:57,808 --> 00:17:00,644

Whenever I hear something like that

or whatever, I just kind of laugh

327

00:17:00,644 --> 00:17:02,771

because I'll talk to mennonite people

sometimes.

328

00:17:02,771 --> 00:17:05,441

I'm like, Well, really

I'm more of an Anabaptist than you are

329

00:17:05,441 --> 00:17:09,194

because I'm Catholic, baptized

or a Catholic background, twice baptized.

330

00:17:09,278 --> 00:17:14,199

So technically, historically I'm

the true Anabaptists.

331

00:17:14,283 --> 00:17:16,118

Because the definition of the word,

332

00:17:16,118 --> 00:17:20,372

just to go back to that historically was

someone who's been re baptized or like,

333

00:17:20,414 --> 00:17:21,832

because they were coming

from the Catholic.

334

00:17:21,832 --> 00:17:25,335

It's very true. Yes.

335

00:17:25,419 --> 00:17:27,713

That's fantastic.

336

00:17:27,713 --> 00:17:29,715

And thinking about anabaptism,

337

00:17:29,715 --> 00:17:32,718

being a faith culture

and not an ethnic culture.

338

00:17:32,843 --> 00:17:33,677

Like I've already said,

339

00:17:33,677 --> 00:17:37,473

like the passing of faith down

through generations and it being accepted

340

00:17:37,473 --> 00:17:42,436

by those future generations is just proof

of the faithfulness of the Word of God.

341

00:17:42,436 --> 00:17:43,729

And it's a beautiful thing.

342

00:17:43,729 --> 00:17:47,733

It's a good thing.

We should be thankful for that.

343

00:17:47,816 --> 00:17:50,652

But the early anabaptists

344

00:17:50,652 --> 00:17:55,282

didn't give their lives

so we could get stuck on external things.

345

00:17:55,365 --> 00:17:58,744

They died, so we could be faithful

to the truth of Scripture,

346

00:17:58,827 --> 00:18:02,706

which after you get past

our external things for anabaptists

347

00:18:02,706 --> 00:18:07,211

that comes down to our key

things that make us truly different

348

00:18:07,294 --> 00:18:09,546

to a lot,

and I'm not bashing other Christian

349

00:18:09,546 --> 00:18:11,006

faiths,

but something that makes, the things

350

00:18:11,006 --> 00:18:15,094

that make anabaptism really different

isn't our external things.

351

00:18:15,094 --> 00:18:19,264

It's our stances on divorce and remarriage

and our stances on non resistance

352

00:18:19,264 --> 00:18:22,893

and like all these

really countercultural things.

353

00:18:22,976 --> 00:18:27,064

And those should be more of our basis

354

00:18:27,064 --> 00:18:31,193

than, you know, our black cars

or our cape dresses or,

355

00:18:31,235 --> 00:18:34,238

you know, our homemade cinnamon rolls

or owning our own business.

356

00:18:34,238 --> 00:18:38,325

Like, all those things are not bad,

but those shouldn't be the core

357

00:18:38,325 --> 00:18:40,869

of our identity. It should be

358

00:18:40,953 --> 00:18:43,872

the things of Scripture.

359

00:18:43,872 --> 00:18:47,918

something else that can be really

360

00:18:48,001 --> 00:18:49,503

I don't know if discouraging,

361

00:18:49,503 --> 00:18:52,798

but it would kind of like combine

discouragement and disillusionment.

362

00:18:52,881 --> 00:18:54,258

So when seekers come in,

363

00:18:54,258 --> 00:18:58,011

we are coming in with a fresh perspective

because we didn't grow up in it.

364

00:18:58,011 --> 00:19:02,224

And so we're getting more

of an objective view as we are coming in

365

00:19:02,307 --> 00:19:04,143

to the way things are done.

366

00:19:04,143 --> 00:19:07,062

And I want to start out by saying

like the way that things are done

367

00:19:07,062 --> 00:19:08,230

isn't necessarily bad.

368

00:19:08,230 --> 00:19:11,817

Like I don't want

to be bashing our ananabaptist people,

369

00:19:11,900 --> 00:19:16,822

but it is extremely important

that we know why we do what we do,

370

00:19:16,905 --> 00:19:19,491

even If it has an obscure

historical background

371

00:19:19,491 --> 00:19:23,579

that isn't actually relevant anymore,

like give us some kind of answer

372

00:19:23,579 --> 00:19:25,080

for why you do what you do.

373

00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:27,499

One example

I was thinking of, was just like,

374

00:19:27,499 --> 00:19:29,793

you know, some communities

that don't wear buttons,

375

00:19:29,793 --> 00:19:31,503

they do like Hook and eye, or they'll do,

376

00:19:31,503 --> 00:19:33,964

you know, pins

for closures of their clothes.

377

00:19:33,964 --> 00:19:35,382

They won't use buttons.

378

00:19:35,382 --> 00:19:39,887

And people looking in are like,

that's really odd, and really unnecessary.

379

00:19:39,887 --> 00:19:40,721

Why do they do that?

380

00:19:40,721 --> 00:19:46,393

And it's like, from what I have heard,

it dates back to like Civil War times

381

00:19:46,393 --> 00:19:49,605

when you had your generals

and stuff in the war wearing these bright,

382

00:19:49,605 --> 00:19:53,901

shiny brass buttons and like it identified

them as being part of the war.

383

00:19:53,901 --> 00:19:55,611

And so at that time,

384

00:19:55,611 --> 00:19:58,363

the conservative people were like, well,

we're just not going to wear buttons

385

00:19:58,363 --> 00:20:01,366

because we don't want to identify

with the military.

386

00:20:01,491 --> 00:20:03,160

That has a reason.

387

00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:07,080

But if you just say we do it because

that's the way we've always done it.

388

00:20:07,164 --> 00:20:08,957

That's not a good excuse.

389

00:20:08,957 --> 00:20:10,083

That's fascinating.

390

00:20:10,083 --> 00:20:12,711

I never knew that, actually.

Yeah, I've always kind of wondered that.

391

00:20:12,711 --> 00:20:16,798

That’s what I've been told.

So I was at least given a reason.

392

00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,092

Yeah,

like, that's a way better than saying

393

00:20:19,092 --> 00:20:22,095

we've just always done it this way

because you'd be like, Well, now hold on.

394

00:20:22,304 --> 00:20:23,972

That can't factually be true.

395

00:20:23,972 --> 00:20:26,642

Like,

you couldn't have always, like, done it.

396

00:20:26,642 --> 00:20:27,935

Like, how far do you want to go back?

397

00:20:27,935 --> 00:20:29,353

Because I'm pretty sure,

398

00:20:29,353 --> 00:20:31,813

you know, the first century church

probably wouldn't have dressed that way.

399

00:20:31,813 --> 00:20:35,817

Like, I'm, I don't want to be bashing,

but that is a very common thing.

400

00:20:36,026 --> 00:20:37,611

this is just kind of

how we've always done.

401

00:20:37,611 --> 00:20:39,613

It was probably not always, always.

402

00:20:39,613 --> 00:20:41,406

It started somewhere.

403

00:20:41,406 --> 00:20:43,575

That's really interesting.

Okay, I might have learned something new.

404

00:20:43,575 --> 00:20:46,411

I might want to look into that a bit more.

Yeah. Yeah.

405

00:20:46,411 --> 00:20:46,912

Good point.

406

00:20:46,912 --> 00:20:50,832

Yeah, But something and again, like

I don't want to focus on the externals,

407

00:20:50,832 --> 00:20:54,544

but our externals are an expression

of obedience to scripture.

408

00:20:54,544 --> 00:20:56,880

So I'm going to use head coverings

as an example.

409

00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,841

I've had a number of different ladies

who've been to different churches

410

00:20:59,841 --> 00:21:03,637

just because they've moved around,

or we're trying to find a place to, church

411

00:21:03,637 --> 00:21:05,389

place to settle or whatever.

412

00:21:05,389 --> 00:21:07,933

And they would ask someone,

Why do you cover?

413

00:21:07,933 --> 00:21:09,351

And they don't know.

414

00:21:09,351 --> 00:21:10,936

They just always have.

415

00:21:10,936 --> 00:21:14,648

And she's like, Well,

I know why I do, so why don't they

416

00:21:14,690 --> 00:21:17,109

when it's so much a part of who they are?

417

00:21:17,109 --> 00:21:19,653

And then it's a little confusing

sometimes.

418

00:21:19,653 --> 00:21:23,448

It's like, So you don't know why

you do this, but I do.

419

00:21:23,448 --> 00:21:27,286

It's like the whole thing of coming back

to not just being born into it,

420

00:21:27,286 --> 00:21:31,581

but actually having scriptural

backing for yourself personally.

421

00:21:31,665 --> 00:21:34,751

But yeah, there's just been so many times

422

00:21:34,918 --> 00:21:38,588

when people are like, well,

they don't know why they do what they do.

423

00:21:38,672 --> 00:21:44,011

And even just I know my husband,

I've talked about so many times of just

424

00:21:44,052 --> 00:21:46,221

there,

I don't know if it's still happening,

425

00:21:46,221 --> 00:21:50,475

but there have been waves of young people

leaving mennonite churches

426

00:21:50,559 --> 00:21:52,519

because they don't know why

they do what they do.

427

00:21:52,519 --> 00:21:54,313

It's just because we've always done it

this way.

428

00:21:54,313 --> 00:21:56,064

And it's so easy to be like, Well,

429

00:21:56,064 --> 00:21:58,817

this other denomination

doesn't do all these extra things

430

00:21:58,817 --> 00:22:00,402

and they're still good Christians,

431

00:22:00,402 --> 00:22:02,821

so why would I stay here

where there's so many demands?

432

00:22:02,821 --> 00:22:04,573

I can go somewhere else?

433

00:22:04,573 --> 00:22:07,993

And so even for,

you know, our own Mennonite young people,

434

00:22:08,076 --> 00:22:12,289

it's really, really important

to know why we do what we do.

435

00:22:12,372 --> 00:22:16,001

Even if it's obscure,

we have to have some reason for it.

436

00:22:16,084 --> 00:22:19,880

And like, a lot of us that think of

like the buttons or something like that,

437

00:22:20,005 --> 00:22:23,008

a lot of that stays

because of the principle

438

00:22:23,133 --> 00:22:25,344

of being countercultural,

and that's where it started.

439

00:22:25,344 --> 00:22:26,636

So it just stayed.

440

00:22:26,636 --> 00:22:28,096

I'm okay with that.

441

00:22:28,096 --> 00:22:31,099

There's a good reason

and there's a principle behind it.

442

00:22:31,308 --> 00:22:36,271

But if you just tell a seeker, well,

I don't know, or just because we do,

443

00:22:36,313 --> 00:22:39,483

it's like it starts to feel pretty empty

444

00:22:39,566 --> 00:22:43,362

because then they don't have a good reason

to commit to something like that.

445

00:22:43,445 --> 00:22:44,905

And that's a lot of external things.

446

00:22:44,905 --> 00:22:47,824

But it comes back

to our internal of knowing,

447

00:22:47,824 --> 00:22:50,702

like having those convictions,

knowing why we do what we do.

448

00:22:50,702 --> 00:22:53,705

So it's really, really important

to be consistent

449

00:22:53,747 --> 00:23:00,128

with what we're doing

externally to match up with our internals.

450

00:23:00,212 --> 00:23:01,963

That's really good.

451

00:23:01,963 --> 00:23:03,507

Yeah.

452

00:23:03,507 --> 00:23:06,927

Every culture has things that they do

just because

453

00:23:06,927 --> 00:23:09,596

like not just Christian cultures, but

454

00:23:09,596 --> 00:23:12,933

international cultures, ethnic cultures,

like there's things that they do

455

00:23:13,016 --> 00:23:17,604

just because the way we greet each other,

the way we, you know, do our homes,

456

00:23:17,604 --> 00:23:22,109

where we cook our food and like all those

things are not bad in themselves.

457

00:23:22,234 --> 00:23:24,027

Even if we don't have a reason for them.

458

00:23:24,027 --> 00:23:27,697

But there really should be some knowledge

of what makes us

459

00:23:27,697 --> 00:23:33,495

who we are.

460

00:23:33,578 --> 00:23:34,037

the other,

461

00:23:34,037 --> 00:23:38,750

the last one would be distance,

which I know we've had a lot of

462

00:23:38,834 --> 00:23:43,213

people coming into Anabaptist Perspectives

saying, you know, I really like what

463

00:23:43,213 --> 00:23:47,217

I'm hearing and I believe this,

but I have no church.

464

00:23:47,300 --> 00:23:50,429

And like, genuinely that is a really hard

465

00:23:50,429 --> 00:23:56,309

one for seekers because it is easier

466

00:23:56,393 --> 00:24:02,399

to maintain our values and our belief

system when we have support.

467

00:24:02,482 --> 00:24:02,816

So it

468

00:24:02,816 --> 00:24:06,653

is hard

and there are different seasons of my life

469

00:24:06,653 --> 00:24:12,242

where because of where we lived

or like job situations where we ended up

470

00:24:12,325 --> 00:24:14,536

that we didn't have a church

471

00:24:14,536 --> 00:24:19,082

close by or we didn't have one close by,

that we were okay with joining.

472

00:24:19,166 --> 00:24:22,544

Maybe they were like super conservative

and we just weren't okay with that

473

00:24:22,544 --> 00:24:25,547

or too far away or whatever it was.

474

00:24:25,755 --> 00:24:29,342

So that, I know that's

definitely a reality for a lot of people.

475

00:24:29,426 --> 00:24:32,429

A lot of seekers, and

476

00:24:32,471 --> 00:24:35,348

I guess my encouragement for

that would just be coming right back

477

00:24:35,348 --> 00:24:38,727

to what we've been talking about

of how our faith needs

478

00:24:38,727 --> 00:24:42,522

to be grounded on the Word of God

and on the strength of God.

479

00:24:42,522 --> 00:24:46,526

And even if that means

you have nothing else.

480

00:24:46,610 --> 00:24:49,738

And to be able to stand for that.

481

00:24:49,821 --> 00:24:52,699

So yeah, like

482

00:24:52,699 --> 00:24:56,161

just thinking about something

like divorce and remarriage,

483

00:24:56,244 --> 00:25:00,123

if you're in a community where

every other church is okay with that,

484

00:25:00,165 --> 00:25:01,875

are you going to be willing to be

485

00:25:01,875 --> 00:25:05,837

that person that says no,

even if there's no one standing with you

486

00:25:05,921 --> 00:25:09,925

and being willing to just stand

on the strength of God alone?

487

00:25:10,008 --> 00:25:14,012

But I know the blessing of community

and I know how hard it is without.

488

00:25:14,095 --> 00:25:16,181

But we have to be

489

00:25:16,181 --> 00:25:19,059

we have to recognize

that our strength comes from God.

490

00:25:19,059 --> 00:25:20,185

We're made for fellowship.

491

00:25:20,185 --> 00:25:23,897

But if we don't have that,

He is sufficient.

492

00:25:23,980 --> 00:25:25,565

So you're

493

00:25:25,565 --> 00:25:27,817

making a case or.

494

00:25:27,817 --> 00:25:31,446

Yeah, a good case

for when you come back to you.

495

00:25:31,530 --> 00:25:33,573

What does Scripture say go with?

496

00:25:33,573 --> 00:25:37,035

These are the things that we believe,

and this is how we choose to live.

497

00:25:37,285 --> 00:25:39,246

And there's a good reason for it.

498

00:25:39,246 --> 00:25:44,334

As Peter talks about, a reason

for the hope that's in you.

499

00:25:44,417 --> 00:25:45,544

So what do you do?

500

00:25:45,544 --> 00:25:47,045

And I know you've had some interaction

501

00:25:47,045 --> 00:25:50,715

with some people in a situation like this

where maybe it's a younger person.

502

00:25:50,799 --> 00:25:55,387

So living in a home with their parents,

they want to live this way, but maybe the

503

00:25:55,595 --> 00:25:59,891

the parents or the area they're living in

is not conducive to that at all.

504

00:25:59,975 --> 00:26:02,561

That's a real challenge. Obviously.

505

00:26:02,561 --> 00:26:04,187

How do you encourage someone like that?

506

00:26:04,187 --> 00:26:07,691

What what do we do in a situation

like that or how do we help someone

507

00:26:07,691 --> 00:26:10,235

like that?

508

00:26:10,235 --> 00:26:12,654

The few people that I’ve

randomly come across like

509

00:26:12,654 --> 00:26:15,657

that, the two biggest pieces of advice

I would have for

510

00:26:15,657 --> 00:26:21,454

that is to walk in humility

and to speak the truth in love.

511

00:26:21,538 --> 00:26:25,458

Because it's not even just

for young people, but people coming into a

512

00:26:25,542 --> 00:26:29,296

more conservative setting

can start to feel good about themselves.

513

00:26:29,421 --> 00:26:32,048

Like I'm doing things right

and y'all are wrong

514

00:26:32,048 --> 00:26:35,343

and like, I'm making these drastic

changes, I'm being countercultural

515

00:26:35,343 --> 00:26:39,180

and y'all aren't following along

like I know what scripture says.

516

00:26:39,264 --> 00:26:44,269

And so I think there

needs to be grace there when

517

00:26:44,352 --> 00:26:44,644

we're

518

00:26:44,644 --> 00:26:47,731

being different, but not to be different

just for different sake.

519

00:26:47,731 --> 00:26:51,526

Like to have that reason,

like I said, but,

520

00:26:51,610 --> 00:26:55,572

I guess an example that I would have is

521

00:26:55,739 --> 00:27:00,327

when I started making changes

and like people should see the internal.

522

00:27:00,327 --> 00:27:03,079

But I'm thinking right now

of the external, just like, you know,

523

00:27:03,079 --> 00:27:05,206

starting to wear the covering

and the Cape dress, things

524

00:27:05,206 --> 00:27:08,960

that identified me

externally with a certain group of people.

525

00:27:09,044 --> 00:27:11,504

I found out a couple of years later

that my great grandma

526

00:27:11,504 --> 00:27:13,173

was just like really concerned about this.

527

00:27:13,173 --> 00:27:17,135

And she was really worried about me

because she had had some kind of distant

528

00:27:17,135 --> 00:27:20,889

relative who joined a genuine cult

and it was not a good situation.

529

00:27:20,889 --> 00:27:24,643

And so when she saw like this

external identification happening,

530

00:27:24,643 --> 00:27:27,687

she was like, okay, is this another one?

531

00:27:27,729 --> 00:27:30,023

She was really worried.

532

00:27:30,023 --> 00:27:34,569

So I think it's really, really important

that as we are making these changes.

533

00:27:34,569 --> 00:27:39,074

One, we just, we stay humble about it

and not just carry this like,

534

00:27:39,157 --> 00:27:40,492

you know, I'm being a good person.

535

00:27:40,492 --> 00:27:42,702

I'm doing things right kind of attitude.

536

00:27:42,702 --> 00:27:47,415

We need to walk in

humility and recognize that

537

00:27:47,499 --> 00:27:47,957

scripture

538

00:27:47,957 --> 00:27:51,127

can sometimes be cut and dry,

but also it's like

539

00:27:51,127 --> 00:27:52,712

not everyone's going to see things

the same way.

540

00:27:52,712 --> 00:27:55,715

It's just the way it is.

541

00:27:55,715 --> 00:28:00,970

But also to be open

in communicating with people.

542

00:28:01,012 --> 00:28:04,766

Like if people ask you questions or if you

start making drastic changes to be like,

543

00:28:05,016 --> 00:28:08,061

Hey, this is why I'm doing this,

and just having lots of good open

544

00:28:08,061 --> 00:28:11,439

communication,

which always helps relationships,

545

00:28:11,523 --> 00:28:13,233

even if people aren't understanding

546

00:28:13,233 --> 00:28:16,236

or supportive, or if they are like,

547

00:28:16,319 --> 00:28:19,114

Yeah, to just give a lot of grace

548

00:28:19,114 --> 00:28:23,034

and being open about open

549

00:28:23,076 --> 00:28:27,956

in a humble kind way,

about why you're doing what you're doing

550

00:28:28,039 --> 00:28:30,792

and not doing it in a way

that makes the other person feel like,

551

00:28:30,792 --> 00:28:36,172

well,

they're just wrong, but just sharing it.

552

00:28:36,256 --> 00:28:38,508

So in the

previous episode, we had done with you,

553

00:28:38,508 --> 00:28:43,138

you shared your personal story of joining

the Anabaptist movement and and so forth.

554

00:28:43,138 --> 00:28:47,517

Now, talk about the interaction

between your personal relationship

555

00:28:47,517 --> 00:28:51,312

with God and trying to, you know,

this is how I want to choose to live

556

00:28:51,354 --> 00:28:54,983

and doing that in a group setting,

basically,

557

00:28:54,983 --> 00:28:58,445

like in the anabaptist community,

where one's relationship with God

558

00:28:58,445 --> 00:29:02,449

is not just a personal thing,

but also a matter of group interest.

559

00:29:02,449 --> 00:29:03,616

So just I guess,

560

00:29:03,616 --> 00:29:06,202

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out

how to phrase that most accurately, but

561

00:29:06,202 --> 00:29:07,871

I think that's a good way of saying it.

562

00:29:07,871 --> 00:29:09,289

Did those ever feel at odds?

563

00:29:09,289 --> 00:29:12,292

I don't know. Just speak into that

a little.

564

00:29:12,292 --> 00:29:15,044

Ultimately,

I think this question comes down to

565

00:29:15,044 --> 00:29:19,382

just being faithful to the word of God

and walking in humility

566

00:29:19,632 --> 00:29:23,428

and getting to the grit of really

what is the most important.

567

00:29:23,511 --> 00:29:26,264

So if

there is a major theological conflict

568

00:29:26,264 --> 00:29:29,142

you have with the Anabaptist

church you’re in or looking at joining,

569

00:29:29,142 --> 00:29:31,728

like definitely wrestle

through that, that's important.

570

00:29:31,728 --> 00:29:35,607

But if it's a minor thing,

I think we need to be more,

571

00:29:35,690 --> 00:29:38,318

more willing to be like,

572

00:29:38,318 --> 00:29:41,321

What am I willing to sacrifice

for the sake of the group?

573

00:29:41,404 --> 00:29:45,033

If this is the group that I am choosing

to be a part of and to throw in my lot,

574

00:29:45,033 --> 00:29:46,993

so to speak. Like.

575

00:29:46,993 --> 00:29:50,079

because a lot of the

I don't know, at least for me,

576

00:29:50,079 --> 00:29:53,875

a lot of the external things

just don't matter to me that much.

577

00:29:53,917 --> 00:29:56,711

I'm like, if my whole church decides

to wear cape dresses,

578

00:29:56,711 --> 00:29:59,380

which I wear out of personal preference,

I know why I do it.

579

00:29:59,380 --> 00:30:04,385

Not just because, but it's like if that's

what my church that I'm going to

580

00:30:04,385 --> 00:30:08,598

and choose to go to decides to do, I'm

okay with doing it.

581

00:30:08,681 --> 00:30:11,100

Because that's not a major

theological conflict for me.

582

00:30:11,100 --> 00:30:15,647

It's just the way that they have chosen

to express the principle of modesty.

583

00:30:15,730 --> 00:30:16,898

I'm okay with that.

584

00:30:16,898 --> 00:30:20,443

Some people might have to wrestle

with that more than I did, and I recognize

585

00:30:20,443 --> 00:30:23,112

that. But

586

00:30:23,196 --> 00:30:23,738

There was a

587

00:30:23,738 --> 00:30:28,618

season as a teen when the only Anabaptist

Church close by

588

00:30:28,701 --> 00:30:32,205

was an Amish Mennonite church

that was quite conservative, like

589

00:30:32,288 --> 00:30:34,249

the bishop or pastor,

whoever had to approve

590

00:30:34,249 --> 00:30:38,127

the tires on your car

and like they only wore snap closures.

591

00:30:38,127 --> 00:30:39,212

They didn't.

592

00:30:39,212 --> 00:30:41,297

One lady I talked to,

they were getting ready to move

593

00:30:41,297 --> 00:30:43,842

to a different community help

take care of an elderly relative.

594

00:30:43,842 --> 00:30:46,261

And I just had to laugh

because she's like girls.

595

00:30:46,261 --> 00:30:47,262

They wear zippers.

596

00:30:47,262 --> 00:30:48,638

That's like just scandalous.

597

00:30:48,638 --> 00:30:49,764

And we just laughed.

598

00:30:49,764 --> 00:30:52,934

We were like,

there are far bigger problems.

599

00:30:53,017 --> 00:30:54,352

Yeah.

600

00:30:54,352 --> 00:30:56,521

So that just cracked me

601

00:30:56,521 --> 00:30:58,523

important to her

because she had been taught,

602

00:30:58,523 --> 00:31:00,108

you know, this is how we do things.

603

00:31:00,108 --> 00:31:01,651

And that was super funny.

604

00:31:01,651 --> 00:31:03,278

But anyways,

605

00:31:03,278 --> 00:31:06,531

but that was a time when it's like,

okay, this is the only church we have.

606

00:31:06,573 --> 00:31:09,576

I want to be part of an anabaptist church,

607

00:31:09,701 --> 00:31:11,494

but they were just really too strict

for me.

608

00:31:11,494 --> 00:31:12,453

There were things that

609

00:31:12,453 --> 00:31:15,456

I just kind of struggled with,

like I can enjoy playing piano.

610

00:31:15,456 --> 00:31:17,250

They didn't allow instruments

even in the home.

611

00:31:17,250 --> 00:31:20,295

And I mean, it's a minor thing, but it was

something I had to really think through.

612

00:31:20,295 --> 00:31:24,465

Like, is that really something

that I'm willing to sacrifice or not?

613

00:31:24,549 --> 00:31:27,886

And we ultimately ended up

moving two years later, so I didn't really

614

00:31:27,886 --> 00:31:29,345

have to make that decision then,

615

00:31:29,345 --> 00:31:32,974

but I had ultimately decided

I'm probably not okay with going there.

616

00:31:32,974 --> 00:31:35,476

I just don't think

I'd be a good fit for that.

617

00:31:35,476 --> 00:31:36,436

And that's okay.

618

00:31:36,436 --> 00:31:41,441

That doesn't mean you're bad anabaptist

if you don't fit in like it's okay. Like

619

00:31:41,524 --> 00:31:43,776

there's a number of different

620

00:31:43,776 --> 00:31:46,863

branches of anabaptism

or different communities I've heard about

621

00:31:46,863 --> 00:31:50,366

where I would not be okay attending,

even if that was the only one there,

622

00:31:50,450 --> 00:31:53,453

because I have issues

with how their theology operates

623

00:31:53,453 --> 00:31:56,873

or how they do church authority

or whatever it is.

624

00:31:56,956 --> 00:32:00,752

But ultimately living in community,

as far as your personal relationship

625

00:32:00,752 --> 00:32:04,631

with God, as well as like

it being a group interest thing,

626

00:32:04,714 --> 00:32:09,844

living in community requires

more personal responsibility, not less,

627

00:32:09,886 --> 00:32:14,307

because it's so integrated

and so involved.

628

00:32:14,390 --> 00:32:15,850

Each person

629

00:32:15,850 --> 00:32:20,271

in a group or not is responsible

for their own walk with the Lord.

630

00:32:20,271 --> 00:32:22,065

Nobody can believe for you.

631

00:32:22,065 --> 00:32:25,276

And so you are still responsible

for your personal walk

632

00:32:25,276 --> 00:32:30,031

with the Lord, your personal

devotional time, like how you

633

00:32:30,114 --> 00:32:31,741

express your faith through your works.

634

00:32:31,741 --> 00:32:35,036

Like all these things, things

you get involved in, through service,

635

00:32:35,119 --> 00:32:36,704

whatever it may be.

636

00:32:36,704 --> 00:32:42,043

But being in a group of believers

637

00:32:42,126 --> 00:32:45,505

that is caring and involved

with each other

638

00:32:45,588 --> 00:32:49,884

requires greater responsibility

and a greater vulnerability and humility,

639

00:32:49,884 --> 00:32:53,638

because you're going to have people asking

you genuinely, how are you doing?

640

00:32:53,721 --> 00:32:57,976

Or like, Yeah, I you know,

I see you might be struggling with this.

641

00:32:57,976 --> 00:32:58,851

How can we help?

642

00:32:58,851 --> 00:33:02,188

And you can either be threatened

by that involvement or embrace

643

00:33:02,188 --> 00:33:05,191

it as an opportunity to grow.

644

00:33:05,441 --> 00:33:07,819

In a healthy church community.

645

00:33:07,819 --> 00:33:10,989

Your individual walk with

the Lord is important

646

00:33:11,155 --> 00:33:14,158

because as we are each individually

walking with the Lord,

647

00:33:14,158 --> 00:33:18,538

the group as a whole can walk

closer with the Lord so we can work.

648

00:33:18,621 --> 00:33:22,417

We have to operate on a personal level,

but then as a group

649

00:33:22,417 --> 00:33:27,171

we are walking together

and that makes our loads lighter and just,

650

00:33:27,296 --> 00:33:29,716

yeah,

why wouldn't we want to come alongside

651

00:33:29,716 --> 00:33:32,719

our brothers and sisters

and, grow closer to the Lord together

652

00:33:32,802 --> 00:33:36,973

and have that support

and have that fellowship.

653

00:33:37,056 --> 00:33:38,141

So you've

654

00:33:38,141 --> 00:33:42,103

shared,

this has been a fascinating discussion.

655

00:33:42,103 --> 00:33:45,314

So you shared

a lot of your personal journey

656

00:33:45,314 --> 00:33:48,693

and then some of these cultural things,

the challenges

657

00:33:48,735 --> 00:33:51,362

of assimilating into a mennonite church

658

00:33:51,362 --> 00:33:54,615

or the broader Anabaptist movement

or however you want to frame it.

659

00:33:54,699 --> 00:33:57,994

And as I mentioned earlier,

you know, we often have people

660

00:33:58,036 --> 00:34:01,289

leaving comments

or emailing us and saying, Hey,

661

00:34:01,372 --> 00:34:03,541

what you are

presenting here on the podcast

662

00:34:03,541 --> 00:34:06,044

is something I'm really interested in

and I want to live more like this.

663

00:34:06,044 --> 00:34:09,047

I want to learn about this more.

664

00:34:09,255 --> 00:34:11,090

So what is something you can leave

665

00:34:11,090 --> 00:34:14,761

those people who are seeking

or wanting to learn more and more.

666

00:34:14,761 --> 00:34:16,721

Want to live more like this, what’s

667

00:34:16,721 --> 00:34:21,476

some encouragement you can leave with them

as we bring this episode to a close.

668

00:34:21,559 --> 00:34:22,101

We've only had

669

00:34:22,101 --> 00:34:25,104

time to touch on just some of the things

I would love to talk about.

670

00:34:25,229 --> 00:34:27,815

But the most important takeaway,

671

00:34:27,815 --> 00:34:30,318

first of all, that I would have for

people is to just hold fast

672

00:34:30,318 --> 00:34:33,654

to Jesus and hold fast to the Word of God,

because that's what's going to last.

673

00:34:33,654 --> 00:34:36,074

That's

what's going to get us through anything.

674

00:34:36,074 --> 00:34:37,700

So that's super important.

675

00:34:37,700 --> 00:34:42,121

I just really wanted to impress

that in this episode.

676

00:34:42,205 --> 00:34:46,125

But that means you have to be,

677

00:34:46,209 --> 00:34:49,212

that sounds like your own strength, but

678

00:34:49,462 --> 00:34:53,049

with God's strength,

you have to be willing to stand fast

679

00:34:53,174 --> 00:34:55,635

to what you know is true,

680

00:34:55,635 --> 00:34:58,554

even if you don't have a church,

even if there's no one

681

00:34:58,554 --> 00:35:01,766

coming alongside you,

even if you stand alone.

682

00:35:01,849 --> 00:35:04,644

And I think some of the best piece

of advice

683

00:35:04,644 --> 00:35:08,523

I ever heard from an Anabaptist man,

I was at a conference in P.A.

684

00:35:08,689 --> 00:35:12,401

and it was the end of the conference

and they were doing like Q&A stuff.

685

00:35:12,485 --> 00:35:13,569

And this man stood up.

686

00:35:13,569 --> 00:35:17,073

He was a seeker from Oregon,

and he's like, I have packed up everything

687

00:35:17,073 --> 00:35:18,991

and I have come here

because I want to be anabaptist

688

00:35:18,991 --> 00:35:22,829

and I want to join an anabaptist church,

basically point me in the right direction.

689

00:35:22,912 --> 00:35:25,498

And this Anabaptist man stood up

and he's like,

690

00:35:25,498 --> 00:35:28,793

I affirm your desire

and I bless you in that.

691

00:35:28,793 --> 00:35:33,297

But he's like,

My advice to you would be to go home.

692

00:35:33,381 --> 00:35:36,509

And that wasn't said unkindly,

and I pretty much guarantee you

693

00:35:36,509 --> 00:35:39,470

there was more dialog with him

after the group session,

694

00:35:39,470 --> 00:35:43,808

but he encouraged him to go home

and build community

695

00:35:43,933 --> 00:35:47,895

right where he was instead of

going to look for it.

696

00:35:47,979 --> 00:35:51,149

So there's kind of a mix there

because like,

697

00:35:51,357 --> 00:35:54,360

I know the blessing of being in fellowship

and the difficulty of not,

698

00:35:54,569 --> 00:35:58,364

but his idea was one

that has stuck with me and just,

699

00:35:58,447 --> 00:36:02,285

I really have loved his challenge

because it's the idea of growing faith

700

00:36:02,285 --> 00:36:05,413

right under your feet,

like don't go looking for something.

701

00:36:05,413 --> 00:36:09,375

If God has given you, given you something,

share it!

702

00:36:09,375 --> 00:36:12,920

And build right where you are,

even if that's in a non-anabaptist church.

703

00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,549

And that doesn't mean in a controversial

or conflicting way.

704

00:36:16,549 --> 00:36:20,678

But like, we’ll use non resistance again

as an example, because I'd rather use

705

00:36:20,678 --> 00:36:24,056

something bigger like that

than something like the head covering.

706

00:36:24,140 --> 00:36:27,226

But just as an example, we’ll

use non resistance.

707

00:36:27,226 --> 00:36:30,104

And let's say that's something

you are convicted of.

708

00:36:30,104 --> 00:36:33,983

And just like, you know, we don't go to

war and, we're not violent towards people.

709

00:36:33,983 --> 00:36:36,986

And that comes through in things

like anger and stuff as well,

710

00:36:37,069 --> 00:36:38,738

not just physical violence.

711

00:36:38,738 --> 00:36:42,950

And you're in a church community that is

totally okay with divorce and remarriage.

712

00:36:43,034 --> 00:36:45,912

Are you going to be willing

to build community

713

00:36:45,912 --> 00:36:48,915

right there

and be the person to stand up and say no,

714

00:36:48,956 --> 00:36:51,709

and you're not going to be popular

and it's not going to be easy,

715

00:36:51,709 --> 00:36:56,964

but you can still grow faith and grow love

in that community right where you are.

716

00:36:57,048 --> 00:37:01,302

It's not easy,

but I know a couple of different people

717

00:37:01,344 --> 00:37:04,680

that have just

really challenged me in that

718

00:37:04,722 --> 00:37:06,432

couple of ladies

719

00:37:06,432 --> 00:37:08,893

from a community where there aren't

720

00:37:08,893 --> 00:37:13,105

any conservative Mennonite churches,

really, that they're comfortable with.

721

00:37:13,105 --> 00:37:14,398

They aren't really conservative Mennonite,

722

00:37:14,398 --> 00:37:17,360

but they don't

really have a church to attend.

723

00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,363

So they go to an unaffiliated

Methodist church,

724

00:37:20,529 --> 00:37:24,408

and it's somewhat conservative

and they're content there.

725

00:37:24,408 --> 00:37:26,327

Like, they feel called to that area.

726

00:37:26,327 --> 00:37:29,330

That's the church they've decided to join

with no other options.

727

00:37:29,330 --> 00:37:31,123

And they,

I would say they're thriving there.

728

00:37:31,123 --> 00:37:34,335

They're doing well, loving

well there and getting involved.

729

00:37:34,418 --> 00:37:36,462

And they are very Mennonite.

730

00:37:36,462 --> 00:37:39,799

And this another couple

I know who've been in the same area

731

00:37:39,799 --> 00:37:44,929

for 60 plus years and they serving

what we would call hillbillies.

732

00:37:45,012 --> 00:37:46,722

And they're thriving there.

733

00:37:46,722 --> 00:37:48,224

And I think the best thing

734

00:37:48,224 --> 00:37:52,228

that I have heard that couple tell me

is just to love people.

735

00:37:52,311 --> 00:37:55,314

It's like ultimately

the most important thing is Jesus.

736

00:37:55,523 --> 00:37:58,067

And in their community,

they realized that a midnight

737

00:37:58,067 --> 00:38:01,070

church just was not going to go,

but they still felt called there.

738

00:38:01,070 --> 00:38:02,989

And so they've stayed Mennonite.

739

00:38:02,989 --> 00:38:05,408

But there probably will not be a midnight

church there.

740

00:38:05,408 --> 00:38:08,160

But they just love the people

and give them Jesus.

741

00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:12,373

And so there's a way we can be Anabaptist

and be different

742

00:38:12,456 --> 00:38:17,128

and still live in community

with non Anabaptist people.

743

00:38:17,211 --> 00:38:18,754

And it's not going to be easy.

744

00:38:18,754 --> 00:38:22,300

But yeah, I just loved his challenge

and so that's probably the challenge

745

00:38:22,300 --> 00:38:24,969

I would give to people is to just

746

00:38:25,052 --> 00:38:25,720

stay faithful

747

00:38:25,720 --> 00:38:29,223

to the Word of God and to love people

well and grow faith where you are.

748

00:38:29,473 --> 00:38:32,435

If you can be part of a community, like,

it is a blessing.

749

00:38:32,435 --> 00:38:34,186

It is really nice to have.

750

00:38:34,186 --> 00:38:36,397

people who believe like you do.

751

00:38:36,397 --> 00:38:38,274

But then the temptation with that

752

00:38:38,274 --> 00:38:42,320

is to stay in your bubble

and just stay with people like you.

753

00:38:42,403 --> 00:38:45,865

So there's pros and cons with both,

but that's probably

754

00:38:45,906 --> 00:38:47,033

would be my biggest takeaway.

755

00:38:47,033 --> 00:38:51,037

It's just being faithful

to the Word of God with or without people

756

00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,790

encouraging you along in that.

757

00:38:54,874 --> 00:38:56,083

Well, Samantha,

758

00:38:56,083 --> 00:38:58,836

thank you so much

for coming on the podcast again

759

00:38:58,836 --> 00:39:03,341

and sharing more of your story and some of

the things you've learned along the way.

760

00:39:03,341 --> 00:39:04,091

And Specifically the challenges.

761

00:39:04,091 --> 00:39:05,885

And Specifically the challenges.

762

00:39:05,968 --> 00:39:08,846

I think it's important

that we have episodes like this to

763

00:39:08,846 --> 00:39:09,847

to where it doesn't come across.

764

00:39:09,847 --> 00:39:13,684

We have everything perfect and figured out

because we are human and

765

00:39:13,768 --> 00:39:16,854

we need each other,

we need Jesus, we need a community

766

00:39:16,854 --> 00:39:18,731

to thrive and grow together.

767

00:39:18,731 --> 00:39:22,485

So thank you for taking the time

to share today. You’re Welcome.

768

00:39:22,943 --> 00:39:25,905

Thanks so much for

listening to this episode with Samantha.

769

00:39:25,905 --> 00:39:27,323

If you found this interesting,

770

00:39:27,323 --> 00:39:30,701

you'll enjoy listening to her testimony,

which is linked down below.

771

00:39:30,785 --> 00:39:32,536

Of course, you can find all the content

772

00:39:32,536 --> 00:39:36,624

we've made over on our website

at anabaptistperspectives.org

773

00:39:36,707 --> 00:39:40,169

Thanks again for listening

and we'll catch you in the next episode.