[jessa__she_her_] 00:00:02

Welcome Aliandra, can you introduce yourself to the audience? please?

Thank you, Thank you for invitation is pretty excited always when we can speak about the sise your passion. It so,

my Aliandra, Barges, and I, and the chair for the East or chapter of Acorn and I work in the house in sector in

Bores, mother and daughter and a low People.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:00:37

Uh, uh.

Pray. this is what I would like to say right now.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:00:41

Okay, Well, I think there will be a lot of people in our audience that are familiar with the work of Acorn,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:00:47

But can you just give us an idea of what Acorn is for those that don't

Thank you. Well, we are at tenant union made of low in conamoaraincom people. We are one hundred and sixty thousand

people across Canada. Yeah, and growing as well. And then we are in twenty four neighborhoods across Canada. Nice

cities. and here in Ontario, we are forty six thousand. and so we have been firing heavily Well for the old house in

brain control. Um, like child care

for banking remittances, that pretty much this is our portfolio.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:01:43

Your?

We have been working here.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:01:45

Your website describes it, As you know, the issues for low and moderate income folks Is that kind

Yes,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:01:53

of a multi issue movement or organization there? Santiago and I were

Yes,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:01:59

scoping out Acorns website as we do our due diligence. I was surprised at something and it's not a criticism,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:02:07

but I do want to ask you folks about it. so it's It's a membership based organization. You know, anyone can

[jessa__she_her_] 00:02:14

join your events and what not? But there is a monthly fee fifteen dollars. Because is this what sustains

[jessa__she_her_] 00:02:25

all of your work, or do you also have to supplement that with donations?

Thank you. Jes, I lo. your question because I, in so people sometimes feel a change. What you mean? You're a low

income already income, And then you are asking fifteen dollars minion to start, and I always say Well, disguise the

limits you want to pull. more. Of course, but they are fifteen dollars. S. A specifically what you say. Yes, This

is why we know how to n. no worry. Whatever we Do is because the necessity of the community, so does mean if we

fall for housing and all people don't one to five for housing. Well, sorry, but this is what we ant. So we know

how to be accountable to only the community only to our members. So this is a founder is very outlifting and this

awesome because many of the times law, incoanmore, income has been puttin in a corner has been like, like swap,

Wipe a way, But these gave us empower men. We are taking money from our sweat, isn't it from our daily jobs? And

we are created something that he has been becoming so powerful that people. now, when I hear the name of an I hope

so, the check meaning the politicians or people like you, know that that we are landlords and people like that. vices.

Um, I personally feel proud when I get my money Monthly. Give the mode of acting. We know how to go there, but, but I

tried to say, I feel very proud Because is money that is very well expended. Our staff is no king, no king every

day in different parts of the city That, by the way, I forgot to tell you that we are in six chapters here in the

seryotorono, So we are

[jessa__she_her_] 00:04:26

Oh wow,

very well pread Yes, so When I say there are people knocking in every neighborhood in the city I know joking.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:04:37

I imagine having all of those chapters within that you know, one urban setting allows you to be really in tune

[jessa__she_her_] 00:04:44

with what the community needs are, as opposed to it was just a Toronto chapter, But back to the membership,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:04:53

I was going to ask you, Do you think there is a twofold benefit and you kind of answered my question there?

[jessa__she_her_] 00:04:59

But you know one. You get to fund your work, which is important, but to it creates a sense of ownership over

[jessa__she_her_] 00:05:09

The entire project. Um, do you ever find it acts as a barrier to access, Though like, there's got to be folks

[jessa__she_her_] 00:05:16

that want to contribute or be a part of it. but you know, maybe just can't afford it to like.

Yes,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:05:27

Are there exceptions?

yes,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:05:28

I guess like.

Yes, there are the well people at the beginning and sometimes there are people like. Yeah, Yeah, I sign and this

is my, my, my base. whatever, But there are other people. It's like let me think about it and there are people

who goes on the way and it's like you know what you're real, so let me let me do it. But yes, we had the ones who are

like. You know what I will be volunteering like calling or doing this Of, And this what we call on members, but unfortunately

these ones can know both.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:06:06

Okay,

Yeah, this

[jessa__she_her_] 00:06:08

Yeah,

is the only difference, but they can be active and they can, and their ideas are of course value.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:06:16

Because yeah, Santiago, you are surprised. like they're able to pay organizers right, You've got a job posting

[jessa__she_her_] 00:06:22

up there. You hire community organizers and are able to compensate them right. We know that's not always

[jessa__she_her_] 00:06:28

the case, especially when you're organizing around really kind of poverty issues, Right so

Yes,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:06:36

that that is impressive and seeing how many members across Canada now your website list some serious Victories.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:06:48

We share a lot of doom and gloom here. you know, especially hen. We're talking politics amongst the left

[jessa__she_her_] 00:06:53

right in Ontario and Toronto's budget,

Yes,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:06:57

But you guys found a little bit of bright spots there and some victories. Do you want to talk about them a little

[jessa__she_her_] 00:07:03

bit? And and how you kind of secured them? I know in your on your website you thank specific counselors

[jessa__she_her_] 00:07:10

for I know that's not an ideal budget for you, but you know, Let's focus on what you did get and how you got

[jessa__she_her_] 00:07:18

it, because I think some

Well,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:07:20

people need some some good news about that that budget. And what's to come?

Yes, so I think so what you say is so important because sometimes when when you are fighting for the most bulneral dou

even have time sometimes to even celebrate because it's not too much to celebrate. but in a big believer we believe.

whatever little, seeing that we win, we should celebrate because this is become like the gasoline. You know. this become

the energy For. Really, Take the other task. That has been more difficult. So we, we were celebrating. The rain

bank is still a rain bank That you really know how to pay back Because it's funny that is called. It was called

a rain bank, but the rain bank, but listen for I. well, yeah, it should be. it was a rain bank. So you had to pay.

You were in a rear. you had to pay back, but in the first Pleasure in areas, because had money, so you had to pay

back. So when Coe came out we, we start to say Well, people don't have money. People is like Play off. People don't

have gord. Will you name it so how they're going to pay back what we really pay a pull on money and put it there

And then people can utilize this money when the money is gone is gone. But at least we use that to support. Many Toontonians

were really facing hardship and this is what happed And in these for this budget At least there. Still they say so

It's five million dollars that are there for families for people that needed in the difficult time we should celebrate.

We should be really doing a party for that, but yeah, sometimes we don't do it, but I quelyethat we should doing,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:09:17

No, you're right,

meeting a Lisa gathering with something and say you know you.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:09:24

You do. I mean

Yeah,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:09:25

that that sustains your work. Sometimes right is just what you got on the inside. If nothing else, so know

[jessa__she_her_] 00:09:34

that's that's a lesson. Sometimes I need to learn a little bit better to celebrate those victories because

[jessa__she_her_] 00:09:39

we spend

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:09:39

Definitely,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:09:39

a lot of time like you know, critiguingbit.

Yes, Yes, it's true and it's very, very consuming an energy. When you critique and when you celebres like, it's

like deliverance. you know

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:09:53

No,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:09:53

I

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:09:54

yeh. definitely. I mean, we need to take whatever victories we can get, because it can be far and

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:10:01

few in between, and that keeps people going. You know, I wanted to ask you know a lot of people who

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:10:10

haven't been involved in activism before you know. They ask me. where should they spend their time? You

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:10:19

know, should they be volunteering for political organize organizations? You're a community union. What

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:10:27

is it about that structure? that is a good place to get the work done? Why? Why? there? instead of

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:10:39

the existing political parties, for example, what's the benefit of existing outside of that space

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:10:44

Is kind of what I'm asking.

Well, first of all, because give you a voice. Many of the low income and more people had been silisen for decades,

Is centres ly You want? We're going to be real. So this is a space where people, each one of the members Because

we had a meeting every month where we get together by chapter and every time what we call What we call now, O, um,

it's a time for everybody, say, their ideas or the issues or the neighbors issues, So it's like

[jessa__she_her_] 00:11:30

Like a town hall.

it's like a ton hole bit. We call in a name and I don't know why went away. So it's a very simple name. I will

come. hopefully, if no, I'll tell you later,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:11:42

M.

but anyway, everywhere Had the ability to speak, and it is the most important part of the meeting where people

speak and an organ, an opinion how they feel about different issues. So these for a start is a very important. The

other scene is when somebody has a issue were going to, Then we go in as organization we plan, and we, and we go

to their building. So when some, when somebody, as a person, the has been left out or corner out and see that nother

group of people like then are going to support. Well, this can this book. This boots every, everybody, isn't it? They

feel like somebody really care about men And this is why Sin has been so successful Because at the end of the door

is people as the real de people That are saying what are their issues, And this is how we choose what we're going

to work in, and the same people decide what is priority. For example, the other day we had a lady who can. She's going

to be addicted, and we had a nother whole building that had issues with the heading Uhnosorewater, What I was like?

They were taking. what pretty much all day without not telling. Then So all we decide that we need to support this

person, this one person that is going to be addicted that the other people can wait,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:13:26

Do you vote

and it's lovely.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:13:28

or do you try to build a consensus there? Like how are the decisions made with such a large group of people?

[jessa__she_her_] 00:13:33

You know. without um. the typical approach that we see sometimes in decision making.

Yes, well, this this is only. are you speaking only East Job. But this is how it happens and every chapter. So this

is how. this chapter by chapter of we were there, The group. The people that came Normally, twenty people are there

with ten that say they have that said Yes, Like them across a well, tis, n't it happen one more? Yes, So this is what

we read was very simple. Everybody knew the been a victor Worse than way, a little bit for the water, because

at least they had a roof, and this is how we do our consensus.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:14:20

See it's interesting and use majority rules, you know to make your decisions,

Yes,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:14:25

but at the same time when you're making those decisions, you were able to prioritize an individual in a more

[jessa__she_her_] 00:14:32

dire situation rather than the larger group of people who might have been more pleased, Right and you would

[jessa__she_her_] 00:14:38

help more at once, But you know that that difference was made, so I find that kind of interesting that

[jessa__she_her_] 00:14:48

That's interesting. What kind of values do you think you could describe as driving Acorn in? Generally like

[jessa__she_her_] 00:14:55

I know, it's made up of members, so it's going to be really eclectic. but generally it's an anti poverty movement.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:15:03

With tact Be a kind of accurate description. Is it strictly based? You called it a tenant union? The website

[jessa__she_her_] 00:15:11

calls it a community union. Is it strictly for those that rent housing issues?

No, I know as for every way, and I think so we are more about justice.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:15:26

Okay,

I think so our value that it results more. we can put you know in our wet side. Like something that I say all the

time justice, the justice will come out. The word justice Is is pretty much what we have been working since two

thousand Four. and in us, I, previously San, was justice, And and it's still being just This because for example,

child care is not only a issue of lawincomora, income and housing is now. it was probably before, but now it's touching

the middle class. Actually, now is touching the whole country, because its touching the economy, and its plus making

us look very well in front of the United Nations as well. So this, this is. This is not any moral issue. All In

Conomo income,

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:16:27

No, No worries.

You're going to clean that

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:16:32

Yeah,

mien.

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:16:32

Ah,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:16:32

Oh yeah,

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:16:33

that will be gone. Um,

Okay,

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:16:37

I wanted to ask, so I noticed that so acorns been around since two thousand and four, and a lot

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:16:45

has changed since then. In in Canadian politics, we've seen that income and equality continued to grow.

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:16:54

More people are being left further and further behind and struggling. And has has that changed in

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:17:02

Landscape reflected more engagement with organizations like Acorn, Like, Are you seeing? more and

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:17:09

more people turn to your organization looking for for answers and looking for ways to to be able to

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:17:18

fight against that.

Yes, this is. I love that question because M, From the ashes we see beauty, you know when when cold heat people

were thinking we were we going to do. But actually this brings all the issues that we have been working since two

thousand for high lighted. you know, So these help us to get gain more members and to gain gain more attention.

Because now we had a pandemic, And and and there are all these issues that were like popping up so clearly that

nobody can deny it. So this is so awesome How we take to this on an advantage. And we had meetings where two hundred

people and they soon show up And it was really good because two hundred people call Justin to Tho, their housing

minister, And though, for emails, you know, so it was really massive and the pressure was really on. So I, since

so I always like to see the positive on the negative. I don't like to dwell too much on the negative even though it's

a reality that hits ourselves every day, But I tried to to see while we can take throniisn't, it. And this was Ama

Scene. Because we had a chant That goes. It's not no, How goes to the war on the poor mad, the rich pay. we're

tired, we are hungry. we won't go away, And we used to sing that in two thousand of fifteen, and people were looking

at us like your crazy people.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:19:21

M.

You're crazy, you

[jessa__she_her_] 00:19:23

Now

know,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:19:23

they know what you're

And

[jessa__she_her_] 00:19:24

talking

then now

[jessa__she_her_] 00:19:24

about

we come in and the pandemic and we are like singing that, and I say a You, So you know this is what is happening

right now. So and when when I say I know, say I, because it is, wean't, it? Sorry? I get it sides, we, we, we.

I,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:19:43

Makes me happy to

so

[jessa__she_her_] 00:19:44

hear, because

yeah,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:19:45

I think there was a little bit of frustration around. Well, Covid, I don't mean itself, but the lack of capitalization

[jessa__she_her_] 00:19:53

on the moment right because it was a bit of an I told you so moment for people who had been talking anti

[jessa__she_her_] 00:20:00

capitalism and warning of the systems in play and how it would get worse. I mean, I don't think anyone quite

[jessa__she_her_] 00:20:10

anticipated that, but surely yet Did shed light on some stuff, and particularly landlords and the precarious

[jessa__she_her_] 00:20:20

situation folks are in where it took almost nothing you know, like nothing within our control to put a lot

[jessa__she_her_] 00:20:27

of people in even more precarious position. So to hear that you folks were able to build your ranks a little

[jessa__she_her_] 00:20:32

bit during this is heart warming to hear, because I think across the board, I'm not sure if everyone saw that up

[jessa__she_her_] 00:20:42

tick Lectoral politics did. not. So perhaps folks are seeing that community organizing is a better avenue

[jessa__she_her_] 00:20:50

for that. You touched on your tactics a little bit. You talked about a phone bank and appealing to ministers,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:20:59

people of power and creating buds that way. Um want to talk about your tactics a little bit. What you guys

[jessa__she_her_] 00:21:06

tend and door knocking right. You talked about. Deep canvassing. is

Yes,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:21:10

what we like to call it right, working the community year Round, listening and meeting people one on one

[jessa__she_her_] 00:21:19

as much as possible. Is that the most effective kind of use of Acorn time? Do you find that kind of engagement

[jessa__she_her_] 00:21:27

or you know, I'm sure petitions, and you know you list a whole sort of tactics on your website, But we do talk

[jessa__she_her_] 00:21:33

about that a lot on the show in terms of what you think works best and for for that approach, or can you shed

[jessa__she_her_] 00:21:41

light on that

Well, door knocking is something that is fantastic. Isn't it like door knocking? but one of the sines that really,

it works super well is when we go in door knocking and we say uh, let's say you, Ha, you had a grand control. Let's

go to wiring control. So

do you want to call right now Is Ut housing and people say okay,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:22:18

At their

So

[jessa__she_her_] 00:22:19

front door? You asked them to call

Yes,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:22:20

right there.

at the front door. So we have been doing the

[jessa__she_her_] 00:22:24

Okay, Yeah, that's

hand

[jessa__she_her_] 00:22:25

as cool.

and I have been working pretty good. We did it. we did it with wet. We municipal. we had been seen more. Most results

because prontly know how to tell you, but this government, The provincial gorman is like a stone.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:22:47

Yeah,

I want to say a rock because a rock is alive. You know a rock is a diamond, but this guy is a stone. It's like

you try to talk with a guy and the person is like First all, I never see social like F, political courtesy. You

know, when you send an mail. Normally they send you an email that is Scripture area, isn't it? At least Yes knowledge,

a recipe, email, this office or the Premier, never.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:23:22

Like a black hole.

never. Yeah, it's like you. Yeah, we had no been having. Even though we have been doing all these petition in

actions calling, we had not been having Too much reply from him. But this is what we have been doing. Like calling

in the spot has been very helpful to a point that people has been asking us. please, please don't do that Because

then I had my boys mail full, and I don't want to do with all these And but normally we have been here from these

people. Just let's talk. Yes,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:24:07

You mean the municipal

So

[jessa__she_her_] 00:24:10

politicians

the municipal,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:24:11

right?

the municipal have been, And the father are the far too, With the fare, we have been having

[jessa__she_her_] 00:24:18

Well, you have a bit of a mix in

a

[jessa__she_her_] 00:24:19

the city right like?

Yes. Yes,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:24:23

it's the P. C, folks that are just immovable right, But you have a few others to choose from federally to

[jessa__she_her_] 00:24:30

apply pressure to. but do you?

The P. C is only one answer to us. It was a Ministry of housing when he took recently the office with it an action

there in seven, seven Bay, and he sent some body in his representation, and from that time never any more

[jessa__she_her_] 00:24:49

I guess he didn't like what you

so

[jessa__she_her_] 00:24:50

guys had to

For

[jessa__she_her_] 00:24:51

say.

years, almost five years, never any more.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:24:54

Do you find like that approach? Then? when governments are like that so stubborn and non responsive, Do

[jessa__she_her_] 00:25:02

you kind of at that point as an organization socidylike your resources perhaps aren't best spend calling them

[jessa__she_her_] 00:25:09

emailing them that you find a different level of government. Or do you just try a different approach with these

[jessa__she_her_] 00:25:16

folks like something a little more disruptive or direct action? Do? are they responsive to

Well,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:25:22

that

we are, yea, we are relentless.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:25:25

Good?

We're still keeping. We're going, We're going, We're going. We're going because we try to. One of the other senstary

works pretty good and I don't know how this going to sound, but it's changing people.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:25:38

Yep,

Yeah,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:25:40

That's

and

[jessa__she_her_] 00:25:40

a valid tactic.

I don't know

[jessa__she_her_] 00:25:41

Don't

that.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:25:41

worry, Aliandra, We've had a lot of people on here. That S that approach quite effectively.

Just an. I don't know if they are no fancy work for that. I don't know. making them accountable. Maybe in the

[jessa__she_her_] 00:25:54

It's okay. we can shame them. Might we yell it out at Riley's like? Um, they should be

Sure. Yeah, I know, I call it then, too. But so yeah, to make then accountable, And so we have been doing that. And

normally when this happens, will and laws, always we receive a call or they fix it. They fix. The problem has been

very effective, very effective with politicians.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:26:27

Different story.

Differ Story, uh, well, we don't try. We had been telling him we had been changing well with housing. We didn't

really move forward too much. The house in chair is a person. At that time he was a person who. who? Really? we

don't know what is done. She tried to be a person who tried to. I don't

[jessa__she_her_] 00:26:58

Did

know.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:26:59

they talk a

Maybe

[jessa__she_her_] 00:26:59

good game? You know, like a politician does

You know, I will say like, like she will dance the dance. the music you play.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:27:08

Right. I got to

Yeah,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:27:09

you, hear what

yeah,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:27:10

you want to hear. She tells

yeah,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:27:12

you what Ou want her?

yeah, yeah, so you know what to take from from that person, But

this is what we have been doing, and in a in a can, in a different scenario, always have been war. But these days

is becoming more hard a hard. because coming to the more accountability since Canadians used to be, we used to be

people that were very accountable When we were in public. Cement was very accountable. It was very serious. but

lately I don't know you notice, but we had been. The quality of the countrability is

[jessa__she_her_] 00:27:56

Yep,

like fading fading. And this is something That speaking from me. Now this is a speaking. something that is worried on

[jessa__she_her_] 00:28:07

Yeah,

war, come in from a country.

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:28:11

M.

even

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:28:11

Hm,

though this is my home, Cana is my home. But I coming from a country where a contrability was a word that probably

was mesinanin, the dictionary. So now I came seven years ago to this country and I saw that contrability was n't

a dictionary, Anna, But now it's fading and it's comfortable for me to see that it's It's fading as changing is.

I don't know and I don't like

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:28:42

You

it.

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:28:42

know one thing I always found interesting in Canada, versus in places like Columbia, in Columbia, Like

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:28:50

we know that politicians are corrupt when they take money and do favors for people they take money

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:28:57

from. But here, like in the twenty Eighteen Acorn report that you guys put out about the developer

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:29:05

money, right, I never hear the word corruption being thrown around like They. just kind of that.

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:29:14

That's much more accepted as a normal part of how politics works here. It was all of them, essentially

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:29:24

all of the city councils. And you know, having this conversation about accountability. Maybe it's not

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:29:30

so much that they're not accountable, but that they're being accountable for the wrong people for the

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:29:35

people who are financing their campaigns and such, And I mean, have you after after that report came out,

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:29:42

Did you hear much from the city councilors as a response to to

[jessa__she_her_] 00:29:48

You

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:29:48

that?

[jessa__she_her_] 00:29:48

mean like blow

Oh,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:29:49

back.

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:29:50

I'm curious,

oh yes,

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:29:51

like,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:29:52

Good

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:29:52

like,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:29:52

question.

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:29:53

I mean, I haven't heard yet what happened in the election That we just had an October if if they took less

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:29:58

developer money because they were scared. But I do know that there was pledges going around. You know,

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:30:02

Diana had the new developer money pledge. I mean, it was a conversation that you guys were a very large

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:30:09

part in starting that conversation. I mean, Did it? I don't know if Like was there. was there some

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:30:15

change this time around? Were they more afraid of taking that development? Money

I don't know if they are more afraid, But they call us and they told you. How dare you. Some people told. some council

is told us how the you went too far.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:30:32

Did they threaten

What do

[jessa__she_her_] 00:30:32

any

you

[jessa__she_her_] 00:30:33

law

mean

[jessa__she_her_] 00:30:33

suits?

you went too far? Sorry.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:30:35

Did they threaten any law suits?

No, no, no,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:30:39

That's

but no, no, this will be like. I ll love that

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:30:43

Did have

like.

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:30:44

to

I

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:30:44

prove

mean

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:30:44

that it was

like,

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:30:45

false.

but you mean

[jessa__she_her_] 00:30:45

Uh.

lasusisntyou a web page.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:30:48

uh.

But you mean send your wet page.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:30:49

Yeah,

But do you think we took the information

[jessa__she_her_] 00:30:51

yeah, yeah,

Is like so, but yeah, they were like. Next time you need to tell me, First one told us and they all told us. we have

been friends. What you told

[jessa__she_her_] 00:31:06

I

me,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:31:06

was going to say.

isn't

[jessa__she_her_] 00:31:07

Was

it?

[jessa__she_her_] 00:31:07

it the more progressive without naming any names? Was it the more progressive ones that called you to complain?

No,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:31:14

No,

no,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:31:14

okay,

no,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:31:15

okay,

no, no, the progressive ones that didn't to a pet. No, we, the the the Nes, who dance when they dance that, throwing

out to them the new cetarystroat to the ones who you never know what to think about,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:31:27

Okay,

Then

[jessa__she_her_] 00:31:28

we know

that

[jessa__she_her_] 00:31:28

those ones

ones.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:31:29

yet

what the ones to

[jessa__she_her_] 00:31:29

they're

call.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:31:30

even more dangerous.

these are the ones who you never know. You need to be really ready for that because you never know where they're

coming from. What they're going to say was that I, Where was one that it really confer Actually, in a meeting that

was requested with with the person and she said, And by the way, the money that it came to my campaign is is no

developers a small business that work for developers. Okay, Yeah, so well, is the point here anyway? she said, This

is family. It is by this and families that work for for the Ellomans, and um,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:32:18

We're hearing those

Yeah,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:32:19

family

it was

[jessa__she_her_] 00:32:19

names over and over again Now talking about the green bell. I know family she's talking about.

Yes. Yes, so yeah, it was kind of be sorry because we were expecting that. In the other scene is the media. The

media was the most. For me Was the most part. The media isn't cover.

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:32:37

Yeah,

Really will be. a media will be like what. Okaybecause. I want to know more. Please let know everybody was like Is like.

What are you talking about? I don't know.

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:32:50

You're absolutely

It was

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:32:51

right

very

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:32:51

there.

strange we were. We were calling. Our selves are starves calling us and it's like Do you hear from the media know

we were thinking this will be like you know when you throw candy or something and people

[jessa__she_her_] 00:33:04

It's

like

[jessa__she_her_] 00:33:04

like scandalous,

from apinata

[jessa__she_her_] 00:33:06

right

or some.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:33:06

like

Ty.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:33:07

it's

Yes,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:33:08

It's juicy stuff even though you nough. this isn't some sometimes boring policy report Like we need those

[jessa__she_her_] 00:33:14

people. I have no shame there, but

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:33:17

I

For

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:33:17

can

sure,

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:33:17

almost say something because I will go off on a half hour. ran. Just about that. I'm a journalism

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:33:23

student, by the way, And

Uh,

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:33:26

and for

huh,

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:33:26

the record, I did use the twenty eighteen report in an article I wrote for the October election, but I

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:33:34

noticed

Oh,

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:33:35

that

nice.

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:33:35

almost nobody did. And and you know last episode that we had, we were talking about biases and media

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:33:41

right, and how, I almost can't go into this because it will make me sorry, Angry.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:33:47

It's like

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:33:47

but

[jessa__she_her_] 00:33:48

a

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:33:48

like

[jessa__she_her_] 00:33:48

whole other episode.

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:33:49

there is no

Yes,

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:33:50

logical reason to not, that study was incredibly well done, incredibly well done.

Yes,

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:33:56

and

[jessa__she_her_] 00:33:56

We

it was.

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:33:57

if

[jessa__she_her_] 00:33:57

leaned on it heavily for an entire episode. Almost

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:33:59

Any,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:33:59

it made

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:33:59

proof,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:34:00

up a chunk of my show notes.

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:34:01

the fact that you guys didn't face any threats of law suits is proof of itself is how

[jessa__she_her_] 00:34:08

Yeah,

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:34:08

well it was done, because if there was an even the tiniest bit wrong with it, they would have of

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:34:13

course gone after it. but so media,

Yes.

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:34:16

completely ignoring that from an organization of the size of acorn, is one of the most just glaring examples

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:34:25

as the hypocrisy when it comes to these biases App Hypocrisy, sorry, I just

Well, it's true when you see like you know who pays who is my employe employer. That's it. That's it like take the

mass here, and this is who is my employer. This is why I love a corn, because nobody can tell. Hey, can you please

don't speak about it about that because you know the one who gives you a money

[jessa__she_her_] 00:34:54

Yeah,

simple like that. So now the money coming from our pockets. We had some organizations that ye are, Because we had

no charitable. but they never had asked any scene. Or can you do this? Can you do that and any? they do, all say.

I'm sorry, No, I ask you to give you

[jessa__she_her_] 00:35:10

Oh,

the money. Well, well, it's not true, we ask, but you know what I mean.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:35:15

You're not taking any developer money or your acorn.

No, no, no, we will take in some developer money. We will be asking for a fort house in right now. Well we ask,

But would what I try to say? Well, the money will be totally put it for for housing without no doubt,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:35:36

You guys have your hands full, Man, like I was checking out your Twitter feed, Acorns Twitter feed, and

[jessa__she_her_] 00:35:42

there's a bunch of chapters there that folks can follow Will include some links in the show notes. But man,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:35:49

landlords suck like we've talked about the idea of decommodifying Uh, housing all together, Right housing

[jessa__she_her_] 00:35:56

is a human right. we shouldn't. No

Yes,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:35:59

one should be profiting off of it, but in the situation we are. clearly, that's the case right now, but I mean

[jessa__she_her_] 00:36:05

like we're looking These stories on the feed. You mentioned one about water. There's you know, folks out in

[jessa__she_her_] 00:36:12

Hamilton, the building that hasn't had water in ages, and it just keeps going. buildings, single occupant,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:36:21

you know, on the dam Fourth there, we've got a whole bunch of fordable homes that are going to be torn down

[jessa__she_her_] 00:36:27

and you folks are organizing around that. I don't know if that's your particular chapter or not, but so many,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:36:33

especially when your multi issue, and then you have to Represent so many members and they live in so many

[jessa__she_her_] 00:36:39

different buildings with different landlords. That's a lot of work. Is there like?

It is.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:36:45

Is there a piece of legislation or some sort of reform that's accessible? You know before we decommodify housing,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:36:56

that would make renters a lot safer. Is there policy change there that Acorn is geared up against?

Yes, Um, since two thousand roly, four, since the beginning we have been fighting against two loop holes in three

loop holes. Actually three loop holes on the rein tendency at the first is rank. Control should be to all buildings

that are rental purpose. not only the ones that are Nineteen Eighty One, We you remember with the laborers. we want

That, and

[jessa__she_her_] 00:37:41

This is provincially

in the funny

[jessa__she_her_] 00:37:42

here in

part,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:37:42

Ontario, Right

Yes, provincial here in Ontario, So we want. we were fighting fighting, fight in fighting, fighting fighting, and

were going to say, I know this is no. No coming from resentment. This is their reality. We were fighting fighting

fighting, meeting with with with in house minister at the time, and previous to the other house, a minister, because,

remembered that time with so many housing minits,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:38:08

Cabinet

Change at

[jessa__she_her_] 00:38:08

shuffles

the saying,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:38:09

and yep

Two thousand ten, two thousand eighteen is like, and then two thousand nineteen like three. So finally a middle

class family has a heat in the rent, and then chief chiefs coming in the news, and then the premier. At the time,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:38:30

Win.

I'm very ward, winning queen, Thank you, he say, Oh no, this is terrible. and now we go And to do real sorry in

control for each all the buildings. so we sell every day and all the stork, and then for

[jessa__she_her_] 00:38:48

Oh my

remove

[jessa__she_her_] 00:38:48

God, I

it.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:38:48

knew that was coming

So

[jessa__she_her_] 00:38:49

like

yes, so we come in backwards again, But this will be one. They all as co, they ave of the guide line increases.

That is that get power to the land laws Every time they do for it Ample they do the new boiler.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:39:10

Like a renovation or improvement

So yeah, an improvement that pass it to the tenants. so

[jessa__she_her_] 00:39:19

Because he wouldn't

these

[jessa__she_her_] 00:39:19

want to take

increase

[jessa__she_her_] 00:39:20

it out of their

again.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:39:20

profit. Right like that would be

Yes,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:39:22

silly.

of course, but yes, will be so silly for them for sure. So this will be another law that they need to be banished.

No even modify need to be banished. Because so if you're going to to ask me for about that, The line increases

in my and my my unit, so please don't increase my rent. So what is the sense that you increase my rent every year

Plus, now you increase that what the guide line increases as well, and they all sing. That is, I think so they all fall

want. that is this is the most of

[jessa__she_her_] 00:39:59

No,

all three.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:40:01

like I'm already mad,

Yeah,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:40:02

Aliandra,

even

[jessa__she_her_] 00:40:03

Like I did not know that second

I know

[jessa__she_her_] 00:40:05

one at all, And so okay, I'm braced. Go ahead

that the big, But they can see the control. So does mean that a move out in Santiago, coming in me as a la La. I

can raise five hundred dollars up, one thousand dollars up, and no body told me anything,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:40:26

And this is in

And

[jessa__she_her_] 00:40:26

any

it's

[jessa__she_her_] 00:40:27

building,

legal as in any building,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:40:29

So this

so

[jessa__she_her_] 00:40:30

is where

that

[jessa__she_her_] 00:40:30

the renovictions

mean well

[jessa__she_her_] 00:40:31

come from. To.

exactly. And this is why people that are living and afford. It's this are why the landlord doesn't repair. The landlords

are extremely rude. This is why the landlord doesn't do past control.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:40:47

They're trying to drive him out.

This is why, of course, because they

[jessa__she_her_] 00:40:51

Okay,

want, and we have heard members, and when I was campaigning, we had her people. that had say to us, My landlord, come and

told me I will not repair your our place, because you know, give me enough Money. So this is the daily read for

Torontonians for Ontarians rentes, and we have been receiving people crying like crying

[jessa__she_her_] 00:41:23

No doubt,

now like, of course, because they had been two years living with a leaking Ruth, a leaking sink or corrus, and they

had children. And you know, when you had cors, you every morning, you had to work Up and watch every scene. Every

time you

[jessa__she_her_] 00:41:44

Yeah,

cook. You need to

[jessa__she_her_] 00:41:45

yeah,

watch every scene Because how you're

[jessa__she_her_] 00:41:47

You're gonna

going

[jessa__she_her_] 00:41:47

get sick.

to cook with all these coarse and is a meat is meat. And I want to stress in, this is a meat that cocrgeleat only

in places that are guilty. This is some meat. This is not because people is guilty, Because normally people associate,

or your poor, you are guilty. But it's not the case. There are people members of who pay seventeen hundred dollars

and rent, isn't it? And of course you beconamoa income, because one thousand seven hundred dollars live with what to

spend to pay rent. Sorry to pay food to pay medication, or in the other center people is not talking about. Is about

culture. if you don't have money. How culture in a country can grow. Tell me

[jessa__she_her_] 00:42:42

Yeah, I hear that how our neighbors are doing absolutely shapes our whole community right.

Exactly

[jessa__she_her_] 00:42:50

That must make you

exactly.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:42:51

that approach. that like that approach from landlords must makes everyone mad. I'm sure, but I read something

[jessa__she_her_] 00:42:58

that you had posted about what Dog Ford had said to you in terms of how to cope with these high rents. And

[jessa__she_her_] 00:43:06

it's just don't move out right. That was all he was offering.

Yes.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:43:09

In terms of a solution. You have all these three policy ideas. Things better than his is just like hang

[jessa__she_her_] 00:43:14

tight. folks, stay in those apartments regardless of how bad they get. And that's maddening. No wonder you call

[jessa__she_her_] 00:43:24

them Stone. You know that's that's

Yes,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:43:27

fitting.

well, this, this is a proof that he doesn't know much about housing. First of

[jessa__she_her_] 00:43:33

I

all,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:43:33

don't think he's ever had to worry about housing Aliandra.

Yes, but but the policy he doesn't know

[jessa__she_her_] 00:43:40

Oh,

much

[jessa__she_her_] 00:43:40

no, no,

like probably no team,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:43:44

Probably,

and in the other can is that he. Uh, but this is how I took and I spoke with with our co Co staff and I said,

You know what what I learned from the meeting with him that we are now more responsible to a people. Because when

we Okay people people, you cannot tell me that the song is read because I know the song is you know. Yellow you

want to say Is simple, So simple because somebody had told me I've been eucated. I had been reading. But when somebody

meet with him meaning M. Premier, and because he is again that some tong, he's in a movable, and you can tell

he, look at. I am born in in his line of your mob, And you are okay. You're fine. So when he meet with somebody

who doesn't know their reality, he will say this guy is great and this is for me, was like an, you know, these

moments when your brain explored and I say all this is why people ball for hien. Because people don't know and he's

calming, all, Um, very

secure of himself. He has been a very wealthy person, isn't it? And its community? I know I get you. I understand you.

don't worry. I know what you're suffering. I know. of course, I'm going to believe that if I don't know the reality,

if I don't know that all his policies are making us poor and making us more weaker and making us mor, even a gazing

ach, Other. But when I really know and I really can myself, I will know, believe im. So these meeting with him really

make us aware that Now this is a bigger responsibility that we had as booked as volunteers as a people as a community.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:45:48

And your work is like extra cut out for you, because as you say, like the media is not very responsive, right,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:45:53

they will amplihis talking points, right. repeat them unquestionably uncritically, you know, and he'll get a platform

[jessa__she_her_] 00:46:02

for all of that nonsense he spouts out. Whereas you folks, and all the other great folks that are doing that

[jessa__she_her_] 00:46:07

work really have to work to get that amplification. So I mean we're happy. Give whatever space there. But yeah, that's

[jessa__she_her_] 00:46:18

That's Very frustrating because misinformation is likely why most people vote against their best interest. There's

[jessa__she_her_] 00:46:25

lots of renters who are still voting for forward right so, despite all of the things that he did in his first

[jessa__she_her_] 00:46:32

term to make it easier to advict people, and what? not? So Yeah, like, thank goodness

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:46:38

Hm.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:46:38

you folks are doing that work. but that is a lot of front to be battling on because one of the things I

[jessa__she_her_] 00:46:44

did want to ask you about on top of all your awareness raising and the other Actics that we've talked about,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:46:50

I guess this is part of it though it's all part of it. Well, I won't answer for you. Your website

Uh,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:46:56

talks about

uh,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:46:56

community building and building community power. What is that? What do you mean?

Okay, so I think so we coming back to a point when I was saying that we give the boys to one who does know boys.

So when we knock at the door and we say hi, Look, my name is, and so on coming from, or that you hear what you

say and they say No. So we spent what? and then we say, Do you had problems in your building and you see how they

roll

[jessa__she_her_] 00:47:29

Oh,

their eyes sometimes, isn't

[jessa__she_her_] 00:47:31

that's

it?

[jessa__she_her_] 00:47:31

a good

It's

[jessa__she_her_] 00:47:31

opening

like

[jessa__she_her_] 00:47:31

line.

this is. Yes, this is a trick Question

[jessa__she_her_] 00:47:35

Yeah,

or what? So then so we start, Look at. This is what we can do. so people start to getting outside it. Or really,

there are other people I never even imagine that I can hear that are going to see these in Toron, specifically

where people are scared and say no, no, no, no, I cannot talk with you because I go in to the landlord is going

to be angry with me and close the door. Can you believe that in ten Twenty three in this century when they are paying

their rent and they know one getting balled because they're going to have retaliations from the landlord,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:48:13

Absolutely,

So

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:48:15

Oh,

it's like on her, but this is a reality that we have found

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:48:23

Hm,

in places where people don't want a fight because they are afraid,

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:48:30

Hm,

but coming back about their community When people see other people like Then that look like, Then that that are

asking questions that is real. Oh, why you know that? Why you know that we have Troll? Why you know that I know had

past control. so they say okay, No, I want to participate. I want to. Yes. Sure, let me sign. Let me call. when it's when

you had that a meeting or when it's what I can do. So Yes, for sure, it's growing is growing community, and is making

the community stronger, Because the other piece that is is very visible and it's very is A reality is that there are

many people that coming from countries that a law is not really low. Where they know how no worry. Who can? they

can even complain? At least we can say here today. Okay, let's go Anto. let's go with Aliandra. Let's go together,

Nd we go to the corner or let's go to Queen's Park, and we're going to a screen. We need more housing, but no one

is going to tell us to deal from that, But there are places that you cannot even say that. So the education pieces

and education brings community.

[jessa__she_her_] 00:49:59

And that empowerment that you're talking about right where they feel like they've got people behind them to

[jessa__she_her_] 00:50:05

as much as them versus the landlord. It's hopefully their whole building and beyond Right

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:50:10

Yeah,

[jessa__she_her_] 00:50:10

like there. the East York community is there with them to a degree,

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:50:14

I mean, I mean, and I just want to throw in because I was actually going to ask you earlier about

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:50:19

because I used to live in Park, Deal, right and Parkdal have seen a lot of these fights right where

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:50:25

big companies like Starlight buy up entire building, and then when when the members of that building,

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:50:32

when the people who live there they start to organize, they get threats of being evicted and that,

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:50:39

I was going to ask you. But and then you started talking about them And that just that reminds me,

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:50:44

But that because I mean, it's just a terrifying concept, right that? just for the simple act of

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:50:50

like standing together with the people in your building your community, the people you live with that

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:50:54

they're threatening to evict you through a process through the landlord Intendant board, which is run

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:50:59

by by landlords, which is not even a legitimate, by any means legal system whatsoever. It's essentially

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:51:07

a kangaroo court. And and so like what happens in those fights. Like how Do you? How do you fight against

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:51:17

that when when these billion dollar companies are threatening people, when when they have so much

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:51:24

control when the system is in place. Like how do you? How do you get people to believe in that? And

[santiago_helou_quintero] 00:51:34

yeah, sorry.

Yeah, I think so, this is a very valued question. Very valid, taught because we have been aving that situation

when people go to three meetings and then they know up again And so we call and see what happens. I know because

it's like always, we go in is only three for ten people, twenty people. What is the other people? Because we know

there are more members. Why why they coming and tire and getting discouraged

It? My answer to that is this is a word. basically and worse never has been won in a one bottle. This is a constant

battle. this is. this is a perseverance. We need to go and go and go on till one day. we're going to be heard

because they're going to get tired at some point and at some point more people are going to be together Because

more people is touching the issue to And more people is growing. The problem is not going aware. In the problem is,

sometimes we sound like a broken

[jessa__she_her_] 00:52:43

M.

record. I don't know. You hear yourselves. ourselves is like a broken record and you're like, Oh man, I even look

boring. but it's not boring is a reality. So how are going to change my song? Either, the one who are singing

the song doesn't change the lyrics because there's no know what. There's no changes. So but coming back to that

point is like We're going to have these people that are going to say no. I'm not coming more, coming more to the

events, But there are others that are more resilient and they're going to come back and were trying to always re reminder

that, Remember when we want this. Remember when we did that. Remember, I took so many years. For example, Inclusion,

Arizona. How many years it took? Two thousand five Cherndastarted the cord. A. Because she called us and we found

out and all the store. and then she called other people and we start to grow. Finally, two thousand nineteen,

and I know mistaken, we want two thousand five, two thousand nineteen. All these five, but we want, and our four

cows, And then he took it to five per cent. But again we need, we can not stop. We can stop because we own two generations

we can restore because We own it, two seniors. That can. the inability issues. We can stop Because we own it to approly

to a single panes that don't have the time. We own it to everybody who again don't have the boys. So we can not

stop. This needs to be our. our. This needs to be like, planted in our hearts, or least planting in our heart that

we can stop. But yes, Santiago, we're going to found people that are going to. Well, I know coming back because I

know she, more like nothing is changing and we need to be come creative and we, we. We cannot get angry either with

that person. We need to say. Okay, Well, this is what I seen. try again. try another time. Look at. this is what

is happening, but we believe that at some point we're going to break ground And continued knowing that justice at some

point needs to be outside at thine and I will

[jessa__she_her_] 00:55:19

That was such a great question to kind of end our conversation because I think it kind of summed up the work

[jessa__she_her_] 00:55:28

of Acorn and we do. Sometimes we get daunted here with all of the work that needs to get done, And I love

[jessa__she_her_] 00:55:35

how you brought us back. Really. Without saying it, the need to have those celebrations and to remember the gains

[jessa__she_her_] 00:55:44

to know that it's possible. I really do appreciate you. take The time to come on here, but more so all the work

[jessa__she_her_] 00:55:52

that you and your comrades are putting into the community. I'm glad I got. I've been trying to reach out

[jessa__she_her_] 00:55:59

to the acorn for a while because we admire their work and I really wanted to get into how you guys were

[jessa__she_her_] 00:56:05

structured and we got so much more than that out of the conversation. So Aliandra, thank you so much. Is there

[jessa__she_her_] 00:56:14

anything you want to share with folks before we sign off that we didn't get to talk about Or how they could

[jessa__she_her_] 00:56:20

get in touch or jump into what Acorn is up to

Well, we had several campaigns that are in the web side, so you can go to a web side w w Toronto that c a r, or

only simple brows, A troo can and you will that are wed side by the way, Some people so our work and they reampeorwesite

on is cooler and easier to navigate. So you can go. There will be very nice and you can participate in the campaigns

that we had there in M. Yeah, and welcome, if you want to be one member. and again, I love the far that we give

money. So fifteen dollars on the skuys, the limit, whatever you want to do, whatever you want to give us. So we

are open and thank you so much for this opportunity Again. In between more people knows that we have rights that

we can do it, and that we, together we can do a change. Well, welcome.