While daydreaming about future backpacking trips, I had an epiphany. Maybe I could have an even better time out there if I lighten my pack. That's when I decided to try out my very first trekking pole tent. Gossamer Gears. The One. And it was a match made in ultralight heaven. Weighing in at just 18 ounces, the one sets up in minutes using just trekking poles and a handful of stakes. And I gotta say, the One didn't just lighten my pack. It simplified my camp setup so that I had more time to enjoy the natural beauty all around me and. And allow me to spend more time with my number one favorite piece of gear. My bidet. That's right. You know, Gossamer Gear designs products for people on the move rooted in a legacy of simplification. Their philosophy is that taking less allows you to do more. And if you want to test out this philosophy yourself, head to gossamergear.com, use code GearAbby at checkout, and save 20 bucks off your order of $100 or more. Happy holidays, my outdoorsy friends. It's your favorite time of the week. Time to head to the official gear garage of Gear Abbey. That is Garage Grown Gear. That's right. Our friends at GGG are here to make sure all of you can get the newest outdoor stuff that you need for your next adventure. What kind of stuff? I'm going to tell you every single week. Here are some examples. All right. Whoa. Is that. Is that Norda's music? Oh, that's right. Norda. Trail running has arrived on Garage Grown Gear. Oh, yeah. Get your feet ready for this big, big action. All right. After you're done running in your Nordah's that might take you a couple years to really run through them, you're going to take a seat on Gossamer Gear's little sit pad. Aw. Gossamer gear is showing up in the GGG ad. A little cross pollination. Oh, and Colin wrote this ad copy which says the streams have been crossed, finally bringing it back to a better place. Looking for some badass tent stakes? Did you even know that badass tent stakes exist? I did. Check out the Pioneer Torque steak and the Pioneer Titanium steak from Tarragon Gear. Whatever you're looking for, Garage Grown Gear and Gear Abbey are the perfect outdoor combo. So get shopping by heading over to garagegrowngear.com right? Meow. You got questions going out of your mind. Someone with answers. Now that's hard to find. Like the what and the why and the how stuff works or just where to go to avoid all the jerks. She's Gear Abby. Gear Abby. Gear Abby. Advice that doesn't suck. Gear Abby. Hello there, my outdoors. Hey, friends, and welcome to Here Abby, where we tackle the controversial, weird, obscure and taboo topics that other outdoor podcasts refuse to touch. I'm outdoor educator and writer Chante Salibair, and I'm here to answer your burning questions about our relationships with outdoor people, products, places and pastimes. And I want them all because remember, there are no dumb questions, just smart advice. All right, Here. Here's how it works. My old timers know this. My old timers. Is that what we're calling you? We need a name for the Gear Abby army. But. But for now, we'll just call you old timers. Apparently, as you know, you're going to send questions into dear gear abbymail.com and I'll answer a few each week on the show. And as always, joining me today is my partner in gear, the producer of Gear Abby, and a guy who conveniently forgot his credit card when I had breakfast with him a few weeks ago at the running event, Colin True.

Okay. It's a special holiday edition of Gear Abby. This is going up on Christmas Day, number one. Number two, I think Gear Abby army just works.

Does it. It sounds aggressive. I'm not.

It does. But I've said if you read some of our. From our listeners, we got. We got some. Some aggressive listeners. The Gear Abby army, it just kind of flows.

Those are your favorite listeners are the aggressive ones.

What. What Gear Abby neglected to say is I didn't have my card because I left it at the restaurant where I had bought Gear Abbey dinner the night before.

That's true. That's true. That's fin pay for the entire rock fight crew. That is my. My side.

Except for that one breakfast which you bought me.

That's true. I'll never let you live it down. You did enjoy it, though. It was a good breakfast.

That was a great breakfast, which I had low expectations considering it was a hotel.

I was going to say considering what. Because I was there.

No, the company was top notch. But the, but the, the food was actually really quite good because there was a lot of apparently breakfast places in hotels like that people go to who aren't staying at the hotel. Looks like in San Antonio.

Yeah, we were in San Antonio for the running event. For those who aren't familiar now this at. By the time this airs, this was going to be a couple weeks ago, but San Antonio. It's an outdoor trade show for running nerds. Real good time. We saw a lot of shoes. Turns out lots of shoes. Just walls and walls and walls of shoes.

We're going to talk about shoes a lot, I think, in this episode.

I think probably yes. But yeah, it was a good time. I. I loved it. And we got to hang, which is always a delight. Even though we live very close to each other, in theory, we never hang out. So one day.

That's true.

One day we'll take this into 3D.

It's gonna happen.

Until that day comes, I'm gonna do a little housekeeping on this episode. I feel like we've now, now that we're getting different kinds of emails and different things going on, we get a little upfront housekeeping. So, listeners, my dearest gear, Abby army, send in some alternate names for me if you could@deargearabbymail.com I'd like to know what you think you should be called, but this episode is going to be a little different. Not just because we're coming up with weird names for all of you, but because instead of answering listener questions, we're going to answer each other's questions. That's right. Burning questions coming from Colin and Shantae. We are also going to take a two week break after this episode to contemplate our life decisions and whatnot. So take this time, drum up some new questions, email them, send them via carrier pigeon however you'd like, but I am ready to talk about poop and anything else in the new year.

Would you prefer a carrier pigeon or a raven?

Oh, I love a raven. I love a corvid. Listen, they want to be like, they want to know us. They want to be smart animals. They're very smart.

Yeah.

They may be better than us. Is it?

Yeah. I have like three raven tattoo or crow tattoos.

I didn't know that. Do you know the difference between a raven and a crow?

Isn't it the size of the bird? The ravens are bigger or something like that.

It's a little bit of the size, but it's also their tails, how their tails are.

Oh, there you go.

Yeah, there you go.

I'm a fan of all things Corvid, so there you go.

I love that. All Things Corvid sounds like an NPR show. Welcome to All Things Corvid.

I don't have a good spin off.

It's a spin off. Yeah. We're working on a lot of new things for 2026.

All things Corvid. We'll launch that In June.

All right. I'm so excited. Colin, for. For. We're doing something a little different today. You and I get to ask each other questions. We're going to try to make them burning outdoor questions just to keep on theme.

No antibiotics for this. These questions, they're just burning.

Just burn. We're just letting them.

These guys burning when they pee.

You know, it's like a little bit of chafe with each question just blossoming on your tender bits. Yeah. Listen, this is. We have to keep it on brand here. Okay. So, Colin, I will let you go first. What do you have?

All right. I am actually curious because now what this is. This is the 18th episode we've. We've. We've recorded.

What's the feels like 700 it feels like, but in a good way.

Please send help. What do you think's the best email you've received so far? Ooh.

Okay. There have been a lot of good ones. I mean, I think, you know, when I'm thinking about top. We have to go back to the sharding question. That was just the most elegantly written email about starting I've ever read in my life.

Yeah. Female listener who both hikes and poops. Was. It wasn't that there. Has tummy issues.

There's something in there for everyone. I loved that one. I loved the question about getting busy in the woods.

Yes.

Yeah, I love, I love. You know, those were great. But I think here, here's an interesting thing. I have an email that we received recently after we talked about elk etiquette. I think that was back in November. That was not actually a question, but it is an email, so this counts. But it was a deep dive into the sensual lives of elk, which might also be an NPR show. I don't know. Maybe it's like a short format, like a miniseries kind of situation.

No, I think it's more of a soap opera. It's an afternoon daily soap opera. The sexual lives of elk. This afternoon on abc.

Beautiful.

Is that after General Hospital?

Yes. And One Life to Live, I learned that all of those soaps are still on the air.

They are all still on the idea. Yeah.

I feel like my mom was watching those.

And Anthony Geary, who played Luke on General Hospital, he just died.

Oh, Luke.

And I remember coming home from school and watching Luke and Laura's wedding with my mom. Like that's. It was like the biggest, like one of the most watched things on television ever. It was like 83 or something like that.

I too little to remember that. I like to remind you. But I do remember watching Knots Landing every Thursday with. Okay, that was a big one. That was a little more like sexy. I think it was like a precursor to the modern, you know, maybe Desperate Housewives and stuff. I mean, Nicolette Sheridan was in that too.

Oh, all right.

Yeah. But. No, but, but here. The. The sensual lives of elk. This email thrilled me. So this came from a regular listener, Troy, who ported over here from the Rock Fight, which for any of you listeners who dropped in randomly into episode 18. Colin is the co. Creator, co host of the Rock Fight. I show up on there every once in a while. That's where Gear Abbey spun off from. But anyway, regular listener Troy is a biologist who used to work with elk, among other things. Troy has written us before about other things and I want. I would love to read the whole email, but that would be an entire podcast because Troy is a very good writer. Very prolific as it turns out. Um, but I'm just going to read a few excerpts. I'm going to try to set the stage for you here and why I love this email so much.

So we're not doing Greatest Hits. You know, we're not doing the clip episode yet. We're just actually going to go with a fresh email that otherwise we would not have another opportunity to read. Otherwise. I know.

Yeah, I had to. We had to carve out space for this. This is such a good one. So, okay. Troy writes elk are fascinating if you want to talk about sex. And he put this in bold and man, do y' all ever. He's not wrong.

Okay, well, hold on. Not to like, what's more fun to talk about?

I mean, poop. Yeah.

I mean. Okay, there you go. Then what? After that there's like a lot of a big gap and then you get to the next things that are fun.

Running shoes is probably. Yeah.

Maybe, you know, movies after that. I don't know.

Oh, Vertical limit. Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

I mean we did. I feel like we did promise the people.

I was gonna re watch it last night, but I didn't.

I didn't either.

I didn't see it in the outline. So like. Oh, good. I don't have to rewatch it.

You don't. But anyway, he says if you want to talk about sex and Mandy all ever elk are a good model. Everyone's got an angle here. A bull's goal is to maximize the quantity of matings gang while cows those are the ladies are seeking to mate with one high quality individual same to produce a high quality offspring. Not the same People, well, they want to get in the middle of it all.

I don't think he means bestiality.

No, I don't think that's what he said. We need to. Yeah, they're just curious.

Yeah.

So he goes out, he describes the process, which includes the dude, elk skin sniffing the lady elk's bits to determine which of them are ready to roll.

So consensual.

I. Apparently, within the elk community, this is like a special. You know, they. Yeah, they're just all milling about, I guess, and then just like, sniffing is happening. And he says once when he was on the job, and this is a quote, I once heard a scandalized young woman gasp, he's smelling her bung hole. Which makes me really glad that this is not how most humans mate. Like that. That part is mine, the really glad part. I wouldn't want to. It's like dogs. I don't want to sn. I don't know.

I've had a few drunken nights at bars where people were saying interesting things. I don't know if I've heard that specifically, but, you know, I can't.

I can't hear bunghole.

I can't say that. It's never been said among a human population.

Yeah, no, I, I. Yeah, I don't know. But apparently once these elk are ready for carnal pleasures, the sniffing has commenced. It's. It's kind of aggressively businesslike is how Troy sort of described it in his email. And he says, I once described elk mating as a slam, bam, thank you, ma' am affair to a group of high school kids. I received a number of letters from those kids thanking me for, quote, talking to them like adults. If those kids listen to this podcast, they would know that.

Yes, I know.

Send them a link, Troy, to them like adults. Anyway, I think my favorite part of the letter, though, was his description of the pre game, which I'm just going to read to you. Okay.

Elk foreplay is what we're doing right now.

This is great. Y' all are learning so much about elk and their harems. Okay, this is a quote to impress discerning cows. Bulls spend most of the year growing big, gorgeous antlers and putting on fat. Once the rut starts, bull elk stop eating and barely drink or sleep for weeks. They grow irrationally horny. Okay, irrationally horny is another phrase. I've never used another band name.

Right there.

What kind of band is it? A sca band. It's a ska band.

You know, it could be a ska band because they're. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. I don't like to default to Scott because I like Scott so much, but. But this. No, but I try not to for this game. But it's like, in this, in this instance, rationally, horny definitely is.

It has to be. It's not like a retro soul band. It is a scarboat. And it's probably down in San Diego for being honest. Like, that's the birthplace.

The Southern California pumpkin Scott scene is real.

It's pretty hot, but yeah. So apparently they grow irrationally horny and aggressive, fighting with other bulls, occasionally to the death, and charging anything that gets too close. They urinate all over themselves and wallow in a mix of mud and urine. The fighting, chasing mating opportunities, and herding cows 24 hours a day cause bulls to rapidly lose weight. By the end of the rut, a successful bull is exhausted, often injured, dehydrated, and sporting numerous non lethal punctures. Basically, a bull elk is nearly killing himself each year in order to breed. Having a harem can be a rough gig. Colin, that was my favorite. Just the call out for you.

You know, if you go back and look in history, this is also how John Holmes operated in the 70s. You know, he just. He dehydrated himself, got irrationally horny. Horny. They shot for like three days and then that was it. Then he recharged.

Do you think that's why the salmon are so successful at going upstream, is they've just got. They've gotten irrationally horny?

They are motivated, man, we just gotta get there, man. They're. They're hanging out by dams for decades, waiting for the dams.

True, that's true. That I would be irrational too, at that point. That's fair. Tarantulas, I don't think, ever. I think tarantula. Tarantulas are probably like. I feel like they have a fairly low sex drive if we're just ranking animal and insects. Yeah.

I mean, I mean, for as much as, like, as scary as big spiders are, like, they're pretty, like timid animals. They kind of like, hide. They don't want to be found. They don't really want to be seen. I think they probably have to bump into each other in order to mate. They're not out there, like, you know, at the tarantula bar, like, you know, just like tying one on and looking for a willing partner, you know? But I think you're right. This is. This is definitely the best email and I'm glad you got a chance to read it because otherwise this wasn't really a typical email we would read on the show. And we've had so many good questions and I don't want anybody to think that they should send emails like this instead of questions. Please send us your questions, Dear I.

Like to be in gmail dot com. Entertain me, teach me something. I know, I love, I love that we learned a little something about this.

For sure. Go nuts, send this in and then add a question as well. But this is, this is pretty special given all, given all the, the animal sex topics we've been able to cover in the first few episodes of Gear Abbey here.

It's truly my pleasure.

I think it's the elk's pleasure.

Oh, man. Okay. Good one there. That was a real good one. I think. I think it was all of our pleasures. Maybe the listeners as well, or maybe they've already tuned out. It's hard to say. I think we started strong, though. I feel like that's a good way to start. So I, I am going to say it is my turn now to ask the question. Okay. You and I used to host a weekly episode of the Rock Fight where we basically rift on outdoor news. And of course, we probably talked way too much about Michelino Sinceri on this podcast. And I know you really miss looking at the news every week, Colin, about the outdoors. Searching, searching for something to talk about that week.

Oh, my God.

No, I don't really. I didn't know that. You definitely didn't tell me multiple times. But I'd say looking back at 20, 25, which we are rounding the corner on right now, what was your favorite outdoor related news story? And I'm going to let you interpret favorite and outdoor however you want.

Yeah. You sent me this. It's a little tough. I think a lot of what we talk about in the Rock Fight is kind of inside baseball stuff. To your point. Yeah. Right. Yeah. For the outdoor industry, which, you know, some Gear Abbey listeners may not find that interesting, although we do have a lot of kind of, we call prosumers, people who aren't really in the industry and are just interested in the stuff in the brand. So maybe they will find some of this interesting. I mean, but the big stories this year, the Trump tariffs and the impact of the industry, that's probably what we talked about the most. Trail running led the product conversation. I'm sure you and I are going to talk some more shoes. And as we sit here today, looking back on this year, we got another wave of casual versus core debating, which happens like clockwork every 18 months or so where the hardcore people think the industry exists to serve them. And then while all the numbers show that, like, actually the casual consumer is growing rapidly in the outdoor space. And then of course, you know, outside of the making stuff part of the outdoors, we had at least. And you know this because this is when we were doing those episodes. Three or four instances of morons trying to pet a bison.

Always my favorite news. Yeah.

To the point where I do think we are eventually going to make merch with like somebody like, you know, riding a bison. Because it's just like, seems to be a trend that is not going to go away anytime soon.

Or maybe the bison is riding the person. Maybe that's like the person is there.

Oh, I like that.

They've been slightly headbutted and so now they're riding the top of the bison's head because they. Yeah, I feel like that's what probably.

More appropriate maybe that or maybe it's just kind of like a far side style cartoon where it's like the bison like, you know, creeping up to the people going, they could let me ride it.

I love that idea. Are you listening, Gary Larson?

I do think the most fascinating part of the outdoor world is the ability for very smart people to radically misunderstand how the industry contributes to our economy while still being out there quoting the Bureau of Economic Analysis saying that we're a trillion dollar industry. Which for those listening who maybe not know that that's a thing. The Bureau of Economic Analysis, Bureau of Government Agency. Again, inside baseball, nerdy stuff. Right. But it says that the outdoors is a trillion dollar thing. Now, that number includes oil and gas production and theme parks and RVs and boats and everything like that. But it's a really sexy number to throw around. And there are people who really want the outdoor industry to be one thing while convincing themselves it's something else. And I find that very interesting. But in terms of the story of the year, the thing that I really reflect back on, 2025, when it comes to the outdoors, I don't want to talk about Tarif gear.

Abby, thank you.

So I'm going to say, yeah, thank.

You from all of us.

Plus, Owen Cumberford's not here to really explain it to us, so I'm going to say the trail running footwear. The trail running footwear explosion, I think that has to be the answer. It's like everyone finally caught up to. A lot of us have known since 1998, and everyone's like, oh, trail running, yeah, more comfortable than hiking shoes. Oh. And I Could wear them around, like casually too. Oh, that's a thing now. So that's been a huge deal. Many brands have entered the space. There's been new brands. It's been just the products story of 2025. So that's what I would say is probably my. What I would dub the category or go to conversation piece of the outdoors for 2025. Besides Beyond Bison anyway.

Beyond. Beyond bison. Is there anything beyond bison? That sounds like the vegetarian. What is the vegan bison? That's disgusting to even think. I bet it's very gy.

Probably.

I don't. Yeah, I. That's. That's a good one. I feel like trail running. I've been doing it for a while. I was ahead of the curve. I like to think, um, it's mostly because it hurts my knees less than running on pavement. Um. But yeah, it was a big year for that. How many. Just a question. Give me an estimate. How many different trail running shoes did you try out this year?

I tried out by six or seven. Had the opportunity to try out in the low teens probably. And some I'm just like, I'm. I'm all right, like, no, take a pass on those because I'm not really a runner anymore. But I still like try them out and I once to try them out and I'm still a shoe guy at heart more than anything else. So it's fun to try out shoes. It's true, man. It's just, I mean, every time you turn around, it's another brand that, you know that's coming out with a trail running shoe or an entirely new brand that didn't exist before or that you weren't aware that existed before making a trail running shoe. I mean, you know, everybody, some of the AI bubble. I think the trail running bubble is going to pop in 2026.

No, people are just going to. They're just gonna be like, screw this, I'm over it. I don't think so. I feel like after, like during COVID people were just scratching at the walls to get, you know, figure out what to do with themselves. So you saw, right? And then outdoor participation exploded. So, yeah, I think, I don't know. I think trail running still has legs. Still has little skinny, muscular legs. Does.

I think. But it's still funny because like I said, like, and you know, this early adopter, I mean, it's. When did Montreal come out? Like the late 90s and innovate and these trail running brands that came in the early 2000s and it's kind of Been around ever since. And we were, you know, I was working for brands making new trail running shoes in like 2007, 2008, Hoka, and all those brands come out 2010. So it's not like anything new. It just found its time, I guess that it really is now surging forward.

So, you know, who needs to wear the trail shoes is maybe, maybe those people who are bison petting so they can get away faster.

Right, Exactly.

Try to outrun it.

What about you, though? What's your, what's your story of the year?

Ah, you know, I think, well, I'll, I'll give an honorable mention here. And it's a very new story. Now my favorite, not my favorite, my not favorite story of the year is the new faces on next year's America the Beautiful interagency pass, what people call the National Parks Pass. But I have to give honorable mention here to painter Jenny McCarthy, not McCarthy.

I thought you wrote Jenny McCarthy. And I'm like, what is going on with Jenny McCarthy?

She is, she's trying to, you know, find a new audience. She's already done tv, she's done anti vaxxer stuff.

Yeah. So she's RFK standing on her corner, you know.

Yeah, I don't, Yeah, I don't think she would be the one to create the stickers here.

No, I don't think so.

No. But Jenny McCarty no H is selling stickers featuring her original artwork that are specially sized to cover this maybe undesirable non nature imagery that we are finding on these passes.

It's amazing and it is, you know.

Her work is actually quite beautiful. I'm glad from all of this, like all the press she's gotten for this. It led me to her website, which is, by the way, The Sage Leaf Studio.com, if you want to get some stickers or just check out her artwork. But it's beautiful. Like she's got one of them features a brown baron Denali. One's got a little pika pika pika pika in which I can't just say, I have to say it multiple ways.

I. I understand, I understand.

They're so stinking cute. That one's in Rocky Mountain National Park. There's a wolf in front of the Tetons, Wolfen. And I cannot promise that any of them are horn horny and or maintaining a harem of any sort, but they all are. Yeah, I think we can assume. I think it's safe to assume.

Okay, so I have two beefs with the new imagery on the national parks Pass.

Do you. Is it the two men's faces on there?

That's one. Okay. You know, I think the. Listen, this is not a. We are. We are not fans of our current presidential administration on this podcast. And so for any of you who are about to send in the like, don't bring about politics, man. Like, no, listen, this is beyond politics. It is objectively horrible. And we are not fans. Hands. So the fact of what they're doing and putting. I mean, why is George Washington on there, if anything? Put Teddy Rose. What does George Washington have to do with national parks?

Nothing to do with national parks.

And then you got, you know, scowling Trump. Okay, my second beef is who fucking designed it? Like, I could do a better job in. Can give me the two images and I could take Canva and make it a more a well executed image of those two faces, even if I wouldn't want to than what they actually did. It was a total throwaway hack job. So it's like, not only are you doing it, you're doing it poorly, which, by the way, stands up to everything else that happens with this administration, but. Oh, my God. So thank you, Jenny McCarty. You are doing the Lord's work. And this is not a religious podcast either, but I'm going to say it anyway. You're doing the lord's work, Jenny McCarty.

I'm glad you got to rant today, Colin.

I feel. I feel good now.

Take a deep breath.

Those clouds got a. Got a. Got a fist shaking.

All right. Cloud fist shaker man. Are you all right now?

I'm good, I'm good. I feel good. I feel ready. Got. That was. It was just bubbling up all day.

Exercise some demons in there. Yeah. All right, well, now that. Now that you're in a more Zen place, why don't you ask me your next question?

Okay. And this is. I mean, really what the people want if they're outdoorsy people. It's all about the stuff, right? Let's just be honest. It's this, this. It's about this stuff. It's about getting the stuff and going and using the stuff.

So for my third wonder of nature, Colin. Well.

Well, that's important too, sort of. So, you know, people. Actually, I need to know what was your favorite gear of the year? Whether that's something new that came out, whether that was a giant packet of goo that you were slurping down, you know, or just something that you started using this year that you love. What's your favorite new thing that you tried or got?

Oh, That's a good one. And I guess the name of the podcast is Gear Abby. So we. Whoop. While we're doing this, you have to think of yours because I'm going to ask you, but I'll say mine. Mine is going to be a multi part answer. So first of all, I just actually wrote about this for Treeline Reviews Best outdoor gear of 2025 roundup, where a bunch of the writers and editors listed their faves and I wrote about the Lem Switchback sandal. I love it. So for people who aren't familiar, Lem's is a shoe brand that makes minimal just.

I'm not cutting that out.

They make minimalist barefoot style shoes. I'm going to just talk in a weird voice to enunciate. So the Switchback is a minimalist sandal. It's. It's kind of a cousin. Colin can't stop laughing at that. He loves it when I mess up, by the way. So the Switchback is kind of like a cousin to the bedrock that people love. It's got a thong style upper, not the Cisco style thong. Thong. This is a like a flip flop thong. It's. It's kind of light but surprisingly cushy footbed. It's kind of sculpted a little bit in there. And I think my favorite part is the adjustment system that's super easy to use. It's called. The name is kind of hilarious to me because it's switchback slider and it's S L Y D E R. It's kind of like comic booky to me, but whatever. But I have to say, like, I've tried a lot of different minimalist sandals and this has been by far the easiest to use. Like, user error is very low on this one because other ones you have to like, like thread the, you know, ribbons of the ribbons. I'm not. It sounds like I'm wearing ballet flats. I'm not. You have to thread the. The. Why can't I think of the floral?

You have Christmas presents on the, on the brain. I think.

No, I didn't even do presents this year anyway. I don't have to thread anything with these shoes. And for that I am grateful.

So listen, I'm sure I'm going to offend a lot of people listen to this podcast, but I probably already done that in this episode.

You definitely did.

Listen, Chaco is the, is the gold standard of like, of sports sandals at this point.

Minimalist sandals.

Nothing minimalist about him, but if you get a. And it made sense when they Came out. But now when you get a pair of Chacos, it literally comes with instructions of how to adjust them.

Straps is the word I was thinking.

Yes. And you know, for the uninitiated and frankly for some of the, you know, how often do you get a pair of chacos? You got to remind yourself. Oh yeah, how does it slide through? How do you make it happen? It's kind of. It kind of sucks. Honestly. I don't want my shoes to come with instructions and the switchback slider makes it really simple and easy and. Yeah, that's a great. It's a great shoe.

Yeah. And I have to thank you. Thank you, Colin, because you are the one who actually brought me over to the LEM side. And so now I think I own four different pairs of lens. They are. Yeah. Very comfortable on my feet. So big fan. I also a couple other quick favorites. I switched to using possum socks on the trail. Yes. Z packs, which makes a lot of ultralight, you know, tents and backpacks and stuff. They make, make possum socks and I bought them on garage grown gear. Our friends at ggg. That's right, they sell all sorts of stuff like this. I don't, and I don't think this is the only possum materialed item on that site. So you might be able to.

Was it like. Wait, so is possum fur a thing? Like what is this made from?

Really warm. It's super duper warm. I think they.

You're not wearing gingies anymore.

You just want me to say it wrong. I wear a lot of different socks out there. Okay. No, these are my sleeping socks socks. I'm not hiking in them.

Why do you need sleeping socks?

Because I need to stay warm while I'm sleeping out there.

Well, isn't that what your sleeping bag does?

Oh, I just. No, my top. My tootsies get cold. Colin.

Oh my God. Thought you were tough.

You don't even camp. Shut up. All right, anyway, so there's that and then I actually also I love that I'm mentioning our two beloved two of our fancies.

Yeah, we're going to need to charge them more in our next contract here.

Yeah, we're going to add an extra, extra zero next time.

Time.

But actually, no, this is just something I love. I started using a gossamer gear Mariposa pack this year and I finally get what all of the hype is about. I know so many backpackers who use these and I was like, okay, they're a good looking pack. Whatever. No, it's great. They've. They've got a 60L capacity, which is a pretty typical large pack capacity. But it does not feel like a big pack when it's on your back, which I love. You can cinch it down really easy. I love the big ass mesh pocket on the back. I love the big ass pockets on the side. I love the big ass cushy shoulder strap. I love the big ass hip belt pockets. There's a lot of big words are there.

Like if you go to the website, does it say big ass?

Yeah, it's just like a trademark. And I said, this is our patented big ass pocket.

Somebody should do that.

Somebody should. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I think outside of all of the big acid ness of it all, I love it also comes with something for your ass, which is a sip pad that is included as part of the frame system. So. Big fan. I love that Canuck finally released their through bottle, which replaces smart smart wool. Oh, I'm flubbing left and right here.

You know, I might edit that one.

I love that Canuck finally released their through bottle which replaces smart water bottles for a lot of backpackers who love using that. And they're awesome. They fit with Sawyer squeeze platypus, quick draw, like any of those threaded water filters. And I'd say finally, this is a little last minute surprise. I just, I just recently started using and like kind of testing out Keen's seek trail runners. And you were talking earlier about brands that have never done, you know that this isn't what they're known for. Just busting out with trail runners this year.

Yeah.

I am shocked at how much I love them. Like they might be my favorite trail runners. Wow. I know they're like just wide enough that my toes can sit in there without being cramped, but they're not so roomy that they feel like clown shoes, which is an issue. And I love, I love my ultras. I wear Olympus to backpack in and I don't mind the clown shoiness then. But not for running in. They got this like integrated tongue sock liner situation that's really comfortable, keeps the dirt out. The sole is kind of a thick boy, but it still has ground feel to it, which is impressive. And they're so. They're pricier than you would expect from Keen or, you know, 180something.

But that's pretty typical in the trail running category these days.

You don't. I don't think of Keen as that. Like, that's not, to me a keen price point.

Right.

They say the outsole could last up to 925 miles. Now, I don't know about the upper right, so that's going to be.

That just disintegrates after 100.

You're just strapping it on with those straps you pulled off of your chalk.

Look at that outsole still going.

It's going on its own. Yeah. I mean, it's. It puts it up there, though, in longevity category with Norda. Mount to coast, like, you know. And I will say, though, like, I know the Nordas have Kevlar uppers, so those are maybe meant to last a little longer. Dyneema.

Dyneema.

Dyneema. Thank you. Yeah. But doesn't know somebody uses Kevlar, though, like, woven.

Oh, they might be. Yeah. I think somebody is some Kevlar.

Might be somebody else, but. Yeah. Anyway, I love them. I could. Cannot believe it. I don't know. Yeah, that's me. What about you? I know I rambled on, so.

No, now it's your turn.

It's your turn to shine.

I look, it's. Again, it's. It's shoes. I'm always gonna go with shoes. I'm a shoe dog. When I worked retail, it's my favorite department to work. Yeah. Shoe dog's a thing, man. You know, you're shoe dogs when you work in the shoe floor and you know all about all the shoes on the wall and you know how to fit them and you know how to. And that's. That's your. When you're working retail, you're a shoe dog if you love working the footwear floor. I never did that. Yeah. And it's. I just. I've always called shoes the show because, you know, you go into an outdoor store or an athletic store or a run store, whatever it is, and it's like, hey, there's all sorts of interesting cool things. But where do you gravitate to? You go and you look at that shoe wall.

I go to the clearance racks.

Y. Look at the shoes in the clearance racks. No, I just like, I love shoes and, you know, I guess, you know, to kind of. Yes. And what you were saying about Lems, you know, the thing about Lem's. That is always that and all the shir. I've. I too, have tried a few of their shoes at this point. Their fit is unmatched in my eyes. I think you put them on. They. They're. I've yet to put a pair of their shoes on that don't make me go, oh, my God, that feels good. And they they do a great job with the fit. And so the one I want to call out is their shoe called the Trailblazer, which has kind of become a daily, daily driver to me. And in the world of trail runners, they. It's a little bit more of a light hiker, has kind of a 90s ACG vibe. And I kind of started referring to it as a mountain sneaker because it's not chunky or heavy or roomy and uncomfortable like a traditional light hiker. It fits like a sneaker, but it has kind of a cool outdoor, hikey sort of aesthetic to it, which I really, really like.

I love a hiker.

Like we said, you know, I've tested, you know, about half dozen different trail runners this year, and for me, the clear winner is being the Nordic, the Norda 002 or the Topo Athletic Terraventure 4, which is currently my passion in life of those Topo Athletic Terraventure fours. It's like everything I like about an ultra lone peak, but it fits kind of like a Lem's does, actually. So The Topo Athletic Terraventure 4 is a sick shoe, but the Nord is a great mount. To coast has been great. Tried those this year, but I tried on the keens that you're talking about at, at the, at the running event.

Oh, really?

I wasn't overwhelmed by just slipping them on. They reminded me a lot of the Craft Explorer 2s and just sort of the out of the box feel. But I've not done as much work in them as you have, so maybe I need to give them another look.

Yeah, the Explorer twos ended up being a little too narrow for me in the end. And I will say these hit all those spots that I love. They're like, they fit my foot perfectly. They're like, foot can hang out in there like a foot wants to hang out and they are a joy to run in. So we'll see what happens with the midsole over time. I don't know yet. Like, some of this is the thing with longevity on some of these shoes is that you could say that the outsole is like crazy. You can build your upper out of Dyneema or Kevlar or whatever, but the midsole is going to compress at some point. Right? So it's, I'm curious to see, like, what, when that happens, how it happens, how comfortable these feel, you know, could I be running in them this time next year?

When feet are hanging out at the feet hangout, do they criticize each other for the Odors. I mean, like, what do you think happens at the foot hangout?

What. What if it's just sniffing, like, the el carom and they're just like, someone's not wearing Merino, but for them, maybe that's enticing.

That's a good point. Like, the stink. It's like Limburger cheese. It's just. Smells good. It's stinky, too.

Wow. I was at a friend's house last night, and they were making pizza, and. And my friend Gabe, he must have made, like, eight different pizzas. And he made. The last pizza he made turned off everybody because it was. It was green olive, which. Whatever. And blue cheese. And it just like you saying Limburger just made me think of this experience I had last night.

I'm guessing he has something that's proven that that's a good combination, but he was into it.

He said it was very creamy, and I quote, I don't need my pizza to be creamy.

So I think I need to hang out with Gabe, though. I mean, I am also a pizza maker guy.

So he has, like, a little outdoor oven situation.

Yeah. Like an uni oven kind of deal, or did he do a. Did he build one?

I don't know. No, it's. It's a product. It's a made product. No, it's. It's delicious. I don't know how it works. Whatever. It's delightful. Except for that pizza, but. All right, well, now that you've got me thinking about stinky cheeses, I have one last question for you.

Okay.

I wish it was about stinky cheeses, but I'm just going to say, look, you know, we're about to round the corner on the year, as we said earlier, a couple days from now, a week, whatever. What are you looking forward to in 2020 as far as sort of the outdoors. So it could be a trip, it could be an activity, Some sort of media, like a movie or something like that. Gear, whatever. Like, again, latitude to interpret. What are you looking forward to next year? What do you want to happen or wish for? What's your.

I mean, I'm kind of at this point where consistency is what I'm looking for. Consistent surfing, specifically, because that's something I did really well during lockdown and Covid and got actually kind of proficient at surfing and then haven't. And then lost it, because I. Because then we basically went back to normal and I stopped surfing as much as I was. But I've kind of gotten to this point in life, and this is gonna Sound, like, really kind of pretentious and terrible, but, like, I'm more important than seeing anything specifically at this point. Like, it's just the consistency of getting outside and going for hikes and rides and spending time with people. I mean, when I look back on all of the. I've had a really lot of opportunity to see some really amazing things in the outdoors. And if I think about something that was awesome, I'd be like, oh, that was an incredible thing to see. But I always reflect on who I was with and, like, how did I feel leaving that adventure more than anything. El. And so it's more like I don't really need to prioritize seeing or doing anything at this point more than just, like, getting outside consistently and with the people in my life, you know, like, that's kind of.

I love that.

Yeah, it's just like, you know, like, you give me grief about Yosemite and you should. And I want to see Yosemite, but it's also like, I'm not also like, you know, oh, my God, I haven't been there. Like, I've seen a lot of cool stuff. I'm sure Yosemite will be great when I get there. Right. But it's just like, what's going to get me there and who am I going to be with and why am I going.

Right, you're going to. It's going to be me. We'll bring your whole family if they want. No pressure. No, they do.

They all want to go.

All right, we'll all go together. I'll do the planning. We're going to do this.

You doing the planning is huge. Because, like, by the way, if you want to get me camping, plan it out. What are we eating? If I don't have to lift a finger, I am there.

Well, I didn't say I wanted to be your, like, your beck and call.

Houseman used to say that. He's like, I'll. I'll cook. I'm like, if you're going to cook, I will camp all week long, buddy.

What are you bringing to the table, Colin?

Dick jokes? No, that's all.

Sorry. All right.

What about you, though? Come on. What do you have going on? 20, 26 is. It's on the horizon. What do you. What are you excited for?

Well, I'm really, really looking forward to finishing this book. I've been working on it for a long time, so that's number one. Because then I can have a life.

Again and we can start doing more Gear Abby episodes.

Oh, we can we can start doing the special episodes again, folks. Write in. Dear Gear Abby Mail. Tell us what you want us to be doing on the show. Send in more questions. We need some more for 2026, but yeah, I'm really looking forward to finishing that so I can have a life again. And I would say I'm looking forward to running more. I knee issue for almost six months this year. I think exactly six. I forgot you did that. Yep, yep, that was it. The enforcer. And the enforcer was enforcing bis in my knee and it sucked. And I did physical therapy and I think, I cannot believe I'm saying this on the podcast, but maybe it's good for accountability. I am thinking about doing a race next year, which I haven't done in, in about a year and half a half.

So I want you to do a race so I can crew for you. Because I don't want to do a race, but I would love to go to your race.

Okay, I'll plan the Yosemite trip. You'll crew for me. This is.

I'm good at that.

This is our friendship exchange for next year. Yes, yes. Okay, cool. So remind me, I said this when I start complaining about it.

When it's August and we haven't done.

Any of it, then, no, mostly I'll. I'll put it on the books, but I will be complaining. Like, why did I think I wanted to do this again? But yeah, I'd say I'm also hoping, like, when I think about hopes and wishes and dreams besides world peace and for all people to be treated with kindness, I would say I'm also interested in seeing how my local mountains, that's the San Gabriel's. I want to see how they continue to recover from the Eaton fire earlier this year. Like, I will never, ever forget driving home in a panic the night the fire broke out, just to grab some stuff and evacuate, get my cat, and just seeing the flames on the hillside and in a place that I would go every week. And it's, you know, it was just. It was sad. It was devastating. It was. Was heartbreaking. The human loss of it is, you know, beyond comprehensible at this point. But I'm really hoping that when we look up to the mountainside, I mean, we've had a pretty dry winter, so I don't know how this is going to play out, but I'm really hoping we start seeing some green once. Once some more rains come, some gentle rains. We don't want torrential rains coming down our denuded hillsides. But yeah, I'm. That's what I'm kind of hopeful about for next year. And I think, like, I think nature is resilient. I think back to when I was on the PCT and I was finishing my PCT book and there were two hu. Fires that broke out on either side of I15 here in Southern California, which I would call the 15. And it was wild. I got an extension on my book so I could go back when they reopened that area to see. Because what I wrote when I was like, you can hang out under the shaded pine trees. They don't exist anymore. But it was interesting to see how quickly parts of the landscape rebounded. You could see all of the little animal trails with, you know, all of the foliage gone. But it was interesting to see how quickly some of that green came back. And I remember seeing like a little wildflower. And I cry. I start crying. I was like, this is. This is exactly what I needed to see. This is. If this is not a metaphor for life and the resilience of nature and humans to get through hard, I don't know what is.

Yeah, we gotta remember, I mean, the fire is a natural thing and it's. And we. It's our own fault that we're dealing with some of these problems because we suppressed for so long. Yeah. And then it is amazing. You know, we think the timeline feels long because our lives are really short in the, in the scale of, you know, the way the. The earth works. But it also was. It's pretty short. I was mountain biking up near Big Bear a couple of years ago and it was. And I was going through a burn and you could see so much growth that had come back and then it had only been a few years when I looked to see when the fire had gone through. It had not been that long. And so it's. I think I. It's going to be. It'll be interesting to, to. To track, I think. You know, if you continue to live in the same place and look up at the hillsides from. From where what it was before to seeing it a year ago to when it starts to really green up again, I think it's going to be probably faster than you think. You know, I think.

Think you're right. It's. You're making me think of a conversation I had yesterday. I was interviewing a geologist and. And he was saying that he's. He's worked in the same place for 20 years and so he's gotten to see geology change over that 20 years.

Oh, interesting.

Yeah, he's he both said like, you know, it's constantly changing, glaciers are constantly moving, rock is constantly falling and fracturing and everything. But it was interesting hearing her his perspectives on like being present for it and going to the same spot every year and looking at this glacier and you know, anyway, I think, I think nature has a lot to teach us in 2026 and beyond. Gotta end on a philosophical note. Well, that's it for this episode of Gear Abby. Until next time, send your burning questions about your relationships with outdoor products, people, places and pastimes over to DearGearAbbyMail.com and I'm going to do my best to answer them or find someone else you can. And of course head over to your podcast listening service of choice and subscribe, rate and review to support the pod and make my day. And follow us on Instagram @GearabyPypod. Promise I will start posting again. I've been a little lax lately. In the meantime, today's episode was produced by David Karstad and this guy Colin. True art direction was provided by Sarah Gensert. I'm Shante Salibair and remember, there are no dumb questions, just smart advice.