It's time for Barbecue Nation with jt.

So fire up your grill, light the.

Charcoal, and get your smoker cooking.

Now from the Turn It Go, Burn it studios in Portland, here's jt.

Hey, everybody.

Welcome to the nation.

That's Barbecue Nation.

I'm JT along with my co host, co pilot, and hall of famer, Ms.

Leanne Whippen.

Tomorrow, Dave, Commander Chris.

They're running around here someplace.

Dave's always trying to find a place to park his car.

We would like to thank the folks at Painted Hills Natural Beef.

Beef the way nature intended.

You can check them out online at paintedhillsnaturalbeef.com Leanne's had some Painted Hills Natural Beef.

She can vouch for them too, like I can.

Oh, boy, can I.

It was a holiday with that prime rib that was just epic.

It was absolutely outstanding.

Pretty good stuff.

Pretty good stuff.

Yeah.

Well, the big news is we've got one of our favorite guests.

Not only is he a world champion, and you're a hall of famer too, aren't you there?

Yes, he is, Big guy.

Yeah.

Tuffy Stone is back with us today.

It's been a while.

Been a couple years since stuff he's been on the show.

Welcome.

Well, thank you for having me.

And I think you.

I think you have enhanced your show greatly by bringing in Leanne Whippen as your co host.

Thank you.

Don't get to see your face enough.

But when I do, I'm always happy.

Thanks, Tuffy.

I gotta.

You know what?

I.

You're not the only person that said, Tracy, that's probably the best business decision decision you've made in 20 years is bringing Leanne on board.

Now the question is, was it mine?

Yeah.

That remains to be seen.

I guess what's worse, that or the.

The cat named Pork Chop.

Pork Chop.

There you go.

Right.

I spend that my time with the cat.

When she starts putting a meme on the screen with a picture of Pork Chop and the voiceover.

I'm leaving.

Okay, so.

Oh, good.

So, Toughy, what do you been.

What have you been up to?

We haven't talked to you, like I said, for a while.

You've been busy.

You racked up a few more world titles under your belt since we talked to you.

You know, it's been, you know, last year, you know, I'm sure Leanne can relate to this too.

You know, couple of years of COVID wasn't so great.

And, you know, it had hit the food service industry pretty hard.

And so that was a big of a Beat down.

I can't remember if the last time I spoke the other day was still alive or not, but Leanne and I are both in the club losing our dads, both of which were very important to us.

Right.

But last year, you know, you know, things started lifting and I started traveling again and doing a lot of teaching.

And so last year was a pretty action packed calendar, you know, and.

And, you know, went from like, you know, not going anywhere, not doing anything, to all of a sudden saying yes to everything.

So I've had a little bit of time off, but the calendar is getting popped back into action, but everything's good.

I saw that you had traveled internationally.

We did one of which.

One of my trips actually got canceled because.

So I went, I went to.

I went to Australia for one of my trips and I ended up teaching, went with Yeti, and I ended up teaching three classes at Weber stores there and doing some events.

And I ended up getting Covid on my way home.

And so I was supposed to turn around and go to Germany, but that trip canceled.

And then I was able to go to Canada for an event.

And then the coolest, probably one of the cool, a very cool event, I shouldn't compare, but I got to go cook in Brazil for a big event called Churrascata.

And I think I cooked like 400, 450 beef tri tips.

So it was.

Yeah, it was a lot of work, but it was a cool event.

Now, Tuffy, I gotta tell you something about Brazil.

I've been there a couple times and Leanne's heard this story, so she can like go pet pork chop or something.

But I was.

First time I was in Brazil was the early 90s and I had never heard of a tri tip, even though I grew up on a farm.

The butchers around where I live, they just grind it up and put it into chuck or something, you know, hamburger, whatever.

And I went to one of the restaurants down there and I always pronounce it wrong, so I'll just say it starts with a C.

But they come by, they seat you, they bring you these big bowls of like vegetables and potatoes and all this.

And then they come by with these skewers and they slice off different pieces of meat.

Okay.

And virtually anything you want.

I mean, one of the best things I ate there was actually broth, a bull hump, believe it or not.

Yeah, yeah, I've had it.

Y.

Yeah, it's very good.

But they came by and they, they put some tri tip on my plate and they spoke English, not Portuguese, that's.

That's a tough language, as I know you're finding out there.

And I ate it.

I went, wow, what is this?

And they came back and they brought me some more, you know, like that.

So they told me about it.

I came home and I went to my local butcher shop and I, I said, hey, Dave, I said, can you cut me some tri tips?

He goes, what do you want those things for?

We just grind them up.

And I'm like, no, they're great.

And of course, the affinity for tri tip has grown over the last 30 years.

It's huge now.

But that was the first place, not in my own backyard, but in South America, where I found tritip interesting.

Yeah, yeah, it was really different.

What did you find in, like, in your trip to Australia?

I love Australia.

Did you find that they were very open people?

I did.

And really wanting to learn and absorb and, you know, it's not just the old stupid thing.

Shrimp on the barbie.

No.

Well, you know, I mean, I like, I like the way the Australians live life.

I mean, they all, they live it in the now when they holiday, they'll take four or five weeks.

You know, they're, they're not, they don't tend, you know, I think over here in the U.S.

sometimes we, we tend to like, all right, we're going to work, work, work, and then save up enough money to where we can retire, and then we're going to travel and then we find ourselves with our knees too bad to go do the trips that we want.

You know, the Aussies, they get out there and see the world while they're young and youthful.

And I really like that.

They've got a real zest for life.

They love outdoor cooking.

And, you know, the show that Lean and I did together, Barbecue Pitmasters, that show still airs reruns and in Australia, it runs in New Zealand.

And what that show did is it.

It really turned on those countries to American style barbecue and competition barbecue.

So they, they really.

There's a couple sanctioning bodies over there and, you know, and KCBS is over there as well.

And, you know, the Australians have their own barbecue alliance that some buddies of mine started, but they're just, they, you know, just like, you know, I think it's communal.

I mean, you know, it's like, I look at Leanne and it just takes me probably the first barbecue contest ever cooked.

I met Leon and that was put up back in 2004.

But, I mean, there's just this communal enjoyment, hence your show of people that just get deep gratification, enjoyment, you know, lighting the grill, lighting the smoker and trying to coke something great out of, out of a piece of meat.

And But I've really enjoyed my travels there.

I've been able to go, I went over for three meat stocks.

My friend Jay Beaumont brought me over for meat stock and Melbourne and Sydney and then we went to Auckland, New Zealand and, and this time we traveled, went over there and we traveled all over Australia.

But you know, just, just teaching and sharing.

I mean I taught more grilling.

I mean we got into barbecue a little bit.

But I really like, I like people to get outdoors and cook all the time, you know and sometimes we don't have enough time to cook a pork butt or a brisket or a rack of ribs, but we always got time to gr, you know, some pork or some beef or chicken and light that fire and they're just, they're just lovely people.

I really enjoy.

Do you find that the meat is different over there?

Yeah, so the meat's different over there.

So typically speaking they don't raise their hogs to be as large as, as we raise our hogs to be here in the state.

So when you, when, you know, like I went over there a couple times and actually taught classes very specific to what we would do in competition barbecue.

And, and so trying to find big thick meaty ribs over there was a real challenge.

So their cuts are, their animals don't tend to, they don't grow them as large.

Now one of the things that was interesting Leanne about the meat, you know, I've always kind of leaned, I've always had a preference towards like grain finished hog versus grass beef grain finished beef versus grass fed.

But I had some beef that was, that I tried over there.

I think it's called Cape Grim and it's out of Tasmania.

And I didn't know this until it was over there, but they have more rainfall in Tasmania than they do anywhere in the country.

And so the grass grows, you know, you know, fast over there.

And so this grass fed beef that they had over there was way more marbleized than I was accustomed seeing, seeing over here.

But yeah, there's some changes.

I find that a lot in my travels.

You know, I get to travel a lot of places and, and cook a lot of different meats.

But the big thing I find is with pork and they're just not growing their animals to be as large as we typically, you know, grow our stew before we harvest.

They.

Did you ever order a salad while.

You were there in Australia.

Yeah, yeah, I'm sure I did.

Why?

Memory?

Well, my first trip, they took me to lunch one day.

I was there for about three weeks, and they took me to lunch and they had a lovely big T bone and they brought it out and there was a potato.

I said, well, I'd like a salad.

And they looked at me like I was from Mars.

And they said, what kind of salad?

I said, you know, like a green salad.

Lettuce and that.

So they brought me out a bowl of lettuce and they set it down in front of me.

There was nothing else on it.

There was no dressing or anything.

And I said, do you not have salad dressings?

And they said, what's that?

And they were serious.

And this was a really nice restaurant.

And I said, well, how about.

Let me start with just some vinegar and oil and maybe if you got a little chopped or powdered garlic, something like that.

And so I mix my own up right at the table.

Well, you told me earlier in this talk, what year was that?

That would have been about 97, I think, the first year.

I don't know.

I think.

I mean, look, I'm having an interview with you guys on Zoom, where I can see your face and hear what you're saying.

And I'm on my telephone.

I think.

I think technology has made this world so much smaller in so many ways.

And.

And so I think there's probably been a little bit of movement since then, but there are definitely cultural changes, you know, everywhere you go and.

And certainly some big food changes.

But it's.

But it's interesting to hear your conversations about.

I guess that was about 30 years ago.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was really interesting.

We are gonna.

Excuse me.

We're gonna take a break.

We're gonna be back with a six time champion.

World champion is like, do I have that right?

Six times.

You know it.

One is plenty.

I mean, yeah.

Okay, well, we'll be back with Ms.

Leanne and Tuffy Stone right after this.

Don't go away.

Hey, everybody, it's JT and this is a special version of Barbecue Nation.

It is brought to you in part by Painted Hills Natural Beef.

Beef you can be proud to serve your family and friends.

That's Painted Hills Natural Beef.

Foreign.

Welcome back to Barbecue Nation.

I'm JT along with hall of famer Leanne Whippin, and we've got Tuffy Stone with us today.

We're going to pick up that conversation in just a second.

If you want to email us.

Simplest way is to go to the website barbecue nation.

Jt.com that's bbqnationjt.com and there's a little box there.

You can send us questions or whatever you want, and either Leanne or I will answer them.

Also, you can find us on Facebook and Twitter and all that stuff.

So we're out there.

I'm not sure how far we go anymore, but it just seems like it just goes to infinity and beyond, you know, as they would say in the kids would be.

But we've got Tuffy Stone with us today.

We were talking about your travels.

Toughie.

Do you find it?

And I'm not trying to get you in trouble here, but was what was more fun?

Australia and down in the Southern hemisphere, maybe Brazil or the stuff you've done in Europe.

Oh, golly.

You know, I've been so fortunate to go to so many amazing places.

You know, I was able to go to Sweden and.

And teach in Sweden and then travel with Johan, who had brought me over.

We went to Denmark and.

And we had dinner at Noma, and then from there we went to Germany.

And, you know, I'd never been to any of those countries before that trip.

And that was amazing.

The Aussies are just incredible and really live life to its fullest.

I love them.

Was able to go to New Zealand and.

And go teach there and be a part of an event, and then got to get in some.

Some fly fishing, and that was cool.

The Brazilians are so passionate.

They're just.

They're so.

They're just so passionate, and they're.

And they got.

I love the heart that they have, and I love.

I love what they do with cooking with fire.

And actually, I was.

I've been to Brazil twice now, but I was able to meet a really inspiring chef, Marcus Levy.

And he starts in his mind creating these cooking apparatuses about a year before Churrascata comes out.

And he built.

Like, this year, he had built these cages.

His thinking was, you know, I had to have a translator because I don't speak Portuguese and he didn't speak English.

So I had someone who had been helping me at my station had brought me over.

I mean, he just.

He blew my mind.

We connected so well.

But he said that everybody's always looking down at the fire, and he wanted people to look up at the fire.

So he created these cooking apparatuses out of steel, and they're like these cages.

And he had a winch like you might have on the front of a boat trailer, and he would hoist these.

These cages up into the sky.

And so Part of the device held the.

The foods that he was cooking with fire.

And it could have been meat, it could have been vegetable, it could have been bone marrow.

And then he.

He had a device within.

Inside that device where that actual fire was.

And he was able to move that fire up and down within this cylinder, within the cooking apparatus.

You know, I've got images of it, actually.

Jay Beaumont took the images, but I've got images of these devices actually on my Instagram.

But it just blew my mind.

And, you know, it's so humbling.

It's so nice.

It's always nice to be around to talk to people.

I mean, Leon and I've been able to have lots of conversations about cooking over the years, but it's always nice to.

To talk to somebody else about cooking and get different perspective and share ideas.

But this chef just blew my mind.

He did things that I had never, ever seen before.

But, you know, sometimes those things can be a little.

Sometimes they're more clever than they are delicious.

Myself has been guilty of that.

But he made food for me that was just sublime.

It was like, all right, this is really cool to watch, but when you put it in your mouth, it was amazing to eat.

Anyways, I don't know if I answered your question.

It's really hard to pick one place.

I mean, it's like.

I mean, Leanne and I've traveled all over the country to all sorts of cool towns and states and.

And witness and gotten to be a part of so many great experiences just here in the States.

It's just.

I don't know, it's really cool to, like, be around new people and learn.

Oh, absolutely.

So my question about those devices, was it charcoal lumped or was it stick wood?

What was it?

Stick wood, Big fires.

In fact, just a little side note, I burnt my shirt when I was over there visiting and he was giving me a tour.

I bumped my head on one of these cages that was hoisted up in the air with the fire.

And when I bumped my head, these embers came down all over my hair.

And so you got to be careful, you know, it's like, walk carefully.

Oh, boy.

That would have been a bonfire for me.

You look like one of those old Roadrunner commercials where coyote just goes poof, and there he got no hair.

Exactly.

Can I share a little story that.

Oh, hair dryer story?

Well, no, I think it's fun.

I think it's fun because I think it gives a little backstory on barbecue Pitmasters.

So I was.

I was cooking in Dillard Georgia, at a small contest that's unfortunately gone away.

And.

And it was a Friday, and I was cooking by myself, which is really unusual.

And.

And John Marcus called me, and I picked up, and John said, hey, hey, Tuffy, I've got this idea for a television show, and I want to know if it's all right if I could sen couple of guys down from New York to Richmond to film you.

I'm going to put together a sizzle reel.

And I said, sure, John, I can do that.

And then he went on further to say that he had cast my role as a professor.

Well, so they go.

They go to Chesapeake, to Woodchucks to do the same with Leanne before they come to Richmond.

So I think it's Monday night, and I get a phone call from Leanne, and Leanne says, toughie, I.

I'm sorry.

I gotta apologize.

And I said, what are you talking about, Liam?

And she said, well, you know, they wanted me to talk smack, and they wanted me to talk trash.

And so I just was, like, trying to come up with stuff.

And I said, so I started making fun of you and your spreadsheets, and I'm being color coded and all this.

So, anyways, long story short, I stay up all night stressing out over this, thinking, man, I don't talk trash, I don't talk smack.

What am I going to do if they.

If they ask me to do the same?

And I literally didn't sleep all night about this.

So they come to my restaurant and they're filming, and now they want trash.

And so I kind of come up with these ideas in my head.

And so, like, one of the ones I came up with, like, I said, well, I don't know if it's true or not, but I hear Johnny's got a gun in his boot.

And for Leanne, I said, I love Leanne.

I just don't like to cook beside her because her hairdryer always knocks the power out in my boot.

But we.

We had.

You know, we had such a fun time filming that show.

You know, like, you know, nothing was.

You know, sometimes people would think, well, it was contrived or it was made up, but it wasn't.

It just.

It wasn't good or bad.

It was.

It was what it was.

Okay, well, with that little piece of trivia, we're going to take another break here on Barbecue Nation on USA Radio Networks.

Tuffy, Leanne, and myself will be back right after this.

Please stay with us.

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Welcome back to Barbecue Nation.

I'm JT along with hall of famer Mislead Whippin and also world champion multiple times, Mr.

Tuffy Stone.

We'd like to thank the folks at Painted Hills Natural Beef.

Beef kind of like your grandpa used to raise, and beef the way nature intended.

That's painted hillsnaturalbeef.com Also, Gunter Wilhelm knives for quality and durability and keeping their edge at a reasonable price.

That's Gunter WilhelmKnives.com in fact, I think David Malik's going to be on the show in a few weeks.

So that's good.

We're talking.

While we're reminiscing, I do have to tell you this one quick story about when we were doing the Pitmasters, the original one, he was laid out in a hammock or some sort of something, just relaxing in the sun.

And, you know, everyone's kind of like, buzzing around.

And we all looked at him and we're like, what does he think he is, Tuffy Cruise?

You know, like Tom Cruise?

It was so.

Yeah.

So we were calling him Tuffy Cruz for a while there.

Oh, my God.

We're getting, we're getting all the dirt on barbecue Pitmasters.

There you go.

Can you, can you actually fly an F18 Duffy?

No, but, but, but ironically, I worked on them for four years, so.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

I was F18 radar technician for four years while I was in the, in the Marine Corps.

So there you go.

There you go.

All right, let's talk a little bit about, about Tuffy and his cooking here.

What or how has your focus changed over the last, say, 15 years?

Are you doing things different in your prep?

Are you doing things different at the restaurant?

Your restaurant's very successful, but.

And you're catering.

But how we all change, it's just a matter of, you know, what is going on in our life.

But I want to know how has Tuffy changed his technique, procedure, anything like that?

Pretty big question, you know, so I'm.

I'm currently without a restaurant.

My catering company's been going since 1993, and we will have an event for 800 people tomorrow night.

We'll have a staff of about 80 some people working at it.

But I sold my restaurants.

Leanne knows how good that feels.

And so let's talk about food and cooking.

So I started off in a French kitchen back in 1987.

I moved from the front of the house to the back of the house and thought my first name was a cuss word for probably about the first six months of being in that kitchen.

But.

But I learned a lot, and I focused for a long on really hard to pronounce fancy food.

And it wasn't until 2004 that I started to take a deep interest in cooking with fire and trying to learn how to make barbecue.

And so I went off what I call the barbecue deep end.

I really had a deep focus and trying to learn how to cook with fire, how to manage smoke, how to take the tougher cuts of meat and try and coax something delicious out of it.

In that journey, I found out about competition barbecue and gave that a go.

Eventually opened up ultimately five barbecue restaurants.

And.

And, you know, a lot of times with barbecue restaurants, sometimes I feel like the side dishes kind of are an afterthought, you know, and.

And the side dishes, to me, are really important.

So as I develop my barbecue restaurants, I tried to put a really good focus and inclusion on the side dishes as well.

But I also learned a lot of lessons.

A dish that I've made at my catering company will be 30 years old this year.

I've made salmon gravlox for 30 years, and I never had one person at event come up to me and say, tuffy, I like your salmon gravlocks, but mine is better.

But when I opened up my first barbecue restaurant, I realized that's a different cuisine.

My potato salads compared to your mom's or your grandmother's, all these foods, you know, that people have strong opinions about, whether it's your barbecue and the meats or the side dishes that go with it.

When I was working on my cookbook and I finally picked a publisher, and I was like, now I went from I think I need to do a cookbook to I signed a contract, and now I got to do a cookbook, I started to think, what.

What am I going to say?

What contribution am I going to give to barbecue that complements all these wonderful, amazing cookbooks that are out there.

And so I kind of like went back to my roots of these, this high end food and tried to blend in maybe some of the sensibilities that chef Alana taught me and bring that into foods that are in the barbecue grilling world and see if there was a nice, healthy relationship there.

I also, in that book realized because we're so busy, I felt like it was important for me to share what I do as cool smoke and competition barbecue.

So I had to share that.

And I felt like it was important to do some slow cooked items, but I also realized we're also busy.

So I tried to do a lot of grilled recipes where it's only 20 minutes at the grill and not, you know, hours and hours and hours.

I really have had a deep focus lately.

Covid hit my businesses so hard and I'd watch so many of my friends show getting so much success with their barbecue products because nobody was going out to eat, but everybody was cooking at home.

And so again, it's the same way as my cookbook.

There's a lot of cookbooks out there and there's a lot of rubs and sauces.

So.

So I've recently kind of rebranded all my products from Cool Smoke to Toughie Stone Barbecue Provisions.

And as I, as I make these rubs, I'm like, all right, what can I make that's complimentary or really delicious, or maybe it stands out or if it's empty, you'll buy another one when it's empty.

And so I've had a real deep concentration in recipe development for these products.

And I think, I think, like, I've got three new ones getting ready to come out that I'm pretty excited about.

But, you know, I tend to, I tend to explore all sorts of flavors.

It's not just paprika or chili powder or garlic or onion or salt or pepper, which I use.

All of those are really important.

But I also branch out and, and bring in some other flavors that, that I don't think offend anybody.

But maybe, maybe they're just a little.

Maybe, maybe they're good, you know, and so, I don't know.

I mean, and.

And I tend to cook within the seasons.

I want to cook the foods that are at, you know, I like to cook corn in the summer, not in the winter.

I like to cook crab in the summer and not in the winter.

I like to do foods that, you know, take advantage of these ingredients when they're at their best.

And I also like to Cook food that when you're hot and swelter and you want to eat it.

So, I mean, where Leanne's living now, you know, it can be really hot in the summer, so I'm going to lean towards brighter, lighter foods, things that have a little tang to it.

So, I don't know.

I mean, but also, I think the more I cook, the simpler my foods get, too.

You know, it's like.

I mean, Leanne and I both been making a living feeding people for a long time.

And I mean, Leanne's really amazing cook.

I mean, it's like.

But sometimes my best dishes might only have five ingredients in them.

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

And I will say that my cooking style has changed a lot, too.

You know, I don't go for recipes that have, you know, 10, 12 ingredients in it, unless it's like my chili.

But anyway, yeah, I just.

And it.

I don't know.

I'm always thinking about people, and when they say, oh, I want to make that, you know, I want to make it something that they don't have to go to the store and spend a fortune on all these different ingredients.

I like to have a lot of things, basics, as you probably do in your pantry, so that, you know, you can actually toss something together, you know, any day of the week without having go in store, per se, you know.

Right.

Do you find.

And I'm going to ask both of you this question, but Leanne and I have had this discussion off the air quite a bit.

Tuffy, do you find that a lot of the barbecue products out there, and they're all.

They're good products.

I'm not slamming anybody here, but for the most part, if you take somebody that's not really astute at cooking, they enjoy barbecue, they enjoy going out to eat, what have you, and they go to.

To the.

The barbecue store, the grocery store or whatever, and you take these five bottles of rub.

It's hard for them sometimes to delineate the difference in the flavors.

They're all very similar.

Well, I think.

I think.

I think when it comes to.

If we look at, like, a classic barbecue rub, there's probably over a hundred out there that are very similar.

And I learned a lot of hard lessons when I first got into barbecue, because I was coming into barbecue with some of my previous culinary experiences, and I thought to myself, man, I'll bet demi glace or white truffle salt is really good on brisket.

And it is.

But I learned, don't take that to a barbecue contest.

I kind of coined this term called, I say it this way, the stereotypical expected flavors of barbecue.

And I think there's a little shift regionally, but there are some flavors that tend to be really consistent in their inclusion and making barbecue.

I mean, it's.

It's the protein itself, it's smoke.

John Willingham wrote a book that really inspired me when I first got into barbecue.

And I read and he.

He said smoke is dirt.

You know, we're cooking, we're not smoking.

And I really hyper focused on that and really studied that fire management and trying to treat smoke like salt and pepper.

But smoke is one of those flavors.

Salt is certainly one of those flavors.

Pepper is one of those flavors.

Granulated garlic, granulated onion or powdered onion part, they're going to be foundation flavors that are going to be very typical paprika, chili powder.

There's going to be some of these flavors that just fit right into what you would expect when you eat barbecue.

So that's why you find a lot of this commonality when you.

When you look at the.

And I think we could take probably Leanne and I could Both probably take 40 or 50 rubs out there and go to a barbecue contest and fare pretty well because we have the.

We have the techniques, we know when to apply, how much to apply, right texture, all these kind of things.

So it becomes.

It becomes not a lot of different from one from the other.

So I think where you got to start to make a difference is, you know, I.

Sometimes I've been made fun of with my recipe development, and sometimes, like, if you get my cookbook, it's a little bit of a pain because I say a tablespoon plus a teaspoon plus a half a teaspoon plus an eighth of a teaspoon.

I probably should have just gone into weights because that would have been an easier way to speak about that.

But I also thought most homes don't have a digital scale.

That's why I went that route.

But I felt like that that extra eighth of a teaspoon really made a difference.

And so I think finding that balance of flavors, then you've got to decide, all right, does it have sugar or not?

And if so, what kind of sugar?

So there are things that we can do to maybe make that rub that's very similar to so many others stand out.

But it takes.

Takes work and it takes develop there.

There are some people out there that have products on the market, they don't know their recipe.

They went to a co packer that kind of helped them along.

And that's okay, too.

We're going to take a break.

We're going to take a break and the three of us will be back.

Talk some more about seasonings here on Barbecue Nation with Toughie Stone right after this.

Hey, everybody, it's jt and this is a special version of Barbecue Nation.

It is brought to you in part by Painted Hills Natural Beef.

Beef you can be proud to serve your family and friends.

That's Painted Hills Natural Beef.

Foreign welcome back to the nation.

That's Barbecue Nation with JT that's me, with Leanne Whippen, hall of Famer.

That's her, also hall of Famer.

On the other end of the screen today, Mr.

Tuffy Stone, the professor.

I was going to say that, and I forgot.

We'll be back with the professor right after this.

And I wanted to see how many people would catch that.

But you were talking about rubs.

Do you think that we kind of are getting to the point?

Maybe we're not there yet, Tuffy, but with, with rubs, with, you know, you can call them blends, you can call them all purpose seasonings.

You can, you can call anything you want.

You know, there's no law against that.

But do you think that we are seeing where some people are taking one of Tuffy's barbecue seasonings and they're going, but this would be good on broccoli.

Are we seeing people experiment a little more, crossing over and using products like that?

I mean, I would think so.

I mean, you know, I just had this thought, all right, Leanne, I might get it wrong, but I think I got it right.

You tell me, is it Tab's pig powder?

Yeah, that's my dad.

That's my maiden name.

Tab.

Yeah.

Trish Pig powder.

Well, I loved your dad, Jim.

Tab was like, amazing.

But, but anyways, there, there's, there's a, a product that's been made before I met you.

And, and, and so it's, it's a product that's been around for decades now.

And, and why has it been around decades is because it's really good.

I think Byron Chisholm Butt Rub is a, a great example of someone that, I think he's had this product out for 25 years now or something like that.

Those, those products have stood the test of time, and it's because they're good.

And I think, I think with products like those or any product that's good, it's got to be universal.

I mean, it's good.

It might, it might have been built for pork but it's great on beef or it's great on chicken or it's great on vegetables.

I, you know, sometimes.

Sometimes meat lovers get, you know, beat up on salads or beat up on vegetables.

But I love.

I love grilling broccoli.

I love grilling broccolini.

I love getting that crispy char on vegetables on a hot grill.

And so I think.

I think a lot of these.

These rubs, and anybody that's watching or listening, if you haven't thought about it before now, these.

These.

These seasoning blends, these rubs, whatever we want to call them, while they might have been intended for.

For beef or pork or poultry or whatever, my guess is they're great on a lot of different foods because of the ingredients and there makes them very versatile.

Yeah, I can tell you I can vouch for pig powder, because I've actually been experimenting with it here at the Casa Tracy and.

And my new air fryer.

I got an air fryer for Christmas.

I've got all the grills and stuff you want in the world out on the porch.

But my wife asked me what I really wanted, and I told her an air fryer.

So I've been doing, like, the other day just to tell you, I used your pig powder on some scallops and some prawns, and I used the pig powder on that in the air fryer.

And my wife, who's not a huge seafood fan, ate every damn shrimp.

So I think I got one maybe when I was bringing it in from the kitchen to the living room to watch the ball game.

But the versatility is what I'm talking about.

Not just in your product, but what the conversation has been about.

But it's really, really good.

I mean, if you think about it, I bet you every pantry has, like, Canadian steak seasoning.

You know what I mean?

It's like people fall in love with a spice, and then it just catches on everywhere.

And, yeah, there are certain standouts.

And, yeah, Byron's, I agree with you, Tuffy.

That's been around for a long time, and it is everywhere, too, which is nice.

Well, I mean, we've just seen a lot of new products come out there that are really successful.

But to make it 25 years or to make it as long as is pig powder, that list gets shorter.

Yeah, yeah, it really.

It really, really does.

But.

And I also think I chuckle sometimes at people we've had on the show, and Leanne's been doing this with me now for over a year, and they'll.

They'll say, well, we're we're selling this and we're doing this, and.

But they haven't got a co packer.

They're still mixing it up in their kitchen with their little digital scale, and they're doing that.

And I have to give them credit for that, for being tenacious enough to stay with it, because the retail beast is something a whole.

You know, what's interesting is that when you used to walk down not even the barbecue aisle, just regular barbecue sauce aisle, you never saw any rubs.

And now some of the rubs are exceeding the amount of sauces.

And I spoke to a very large retailer and I said, so what sells more, the sauces or the rubs?

He goes, the rubs.

So I think people are also health conscious and feel like since a lot of sauces have sugar in it, you know, they're staying away from that and they are going more to the seasonings, so.

Hence the large market out there.

But it's tough.

It's brand confusion.

Not brand confusion, but it's just confusion for the consumer.

And it's overwhelming even for myself to walk down those aisles.

And then it becomes almost, what am I cooking?

What stands out as an ingredient?

And, you know, you're looking at label colors, which ones are, you know, grabbing your attention.

So a lot of it is success, I think, is based on marketing and.

And Tuffy, as you said, you.

You kind of changed your strategy or your packaging or whatever.

And I love your new packaging.

It points to you because the competitor is no cool smoke.

But most of the people know you from television.

They know Tuffy Stone.

So I'm glad that you kind of reversed your.

Or changed your, you know, your labeling and everything to reflect you, because I think that's important.

It took a pandemic to put me in check.

I still get embarrassed about being around them or.

But anyway, so you gotta do it.

I know, I know, right?

You gotta.

Gotta try and make a living.

I bet you guys tore it up a few times.

I'm just throwing that out there.

Not really.

Not really.

Oh, you know, I feel like I'm talking to my sister right now.

It's a family.

It's like we just.

We've had so many journeys together.

We've known each other for so long.

It's like.

I mean, it's like I'm.

It's like last year I was able to, like, spend time with you a couple of different times, and it was just so nice.

It's like being.

Being with friends, you know?

Yeah.

We really never had the time on the circuit.

Yeah.

We had our little powwows quick and whatever, but, yeah, it's.

It's nice.

It's.

It's more relaxed and I would say.

I mean, yeah.

Anyway, we had to get back and.

And baste the ribs, spritz the ribs, make the sauce.

Yeah.

Yep.

Well, Tuffy, thank you for being with us on Barbecue Nation.

He is going to stick around for the After Hours, the part that you get only online because of FCC regulations.

But it's been a real.

It's.

It's been a really good time to talk to you again.

And let's not make it, what, three years?

I feel like we've been on the air, like, 10 minutes.

That's the fastest any show has ever gone for me.

It's just.

I'm like, oh, my God, we need to do another one.

Whatever.

Okay, we'll do After Hours.

We'll get it out in there.

And next week, we'll have Stretch.

Yeah.

All right.

Yeah, we're gonna have Stretch.

Hey, Tuffy, here's a question for you really quickly before we go.

Do you know what Stretch's real name is?

I can tell you.

Hold on.

First time I met Stretch, I watched him do backflips and a cape, and his grill caught on fire.

Tell me.

I can't remember, but it's Jeff Ruminer.

Yeah.

R U R U M A N.

E R.

I've gotten to do some good things with Stretch, too.

I like Stretch.

Yeah, right.

He's gonna be.

Actually.

He actually.

Stretch made the trophy that Leon and I both have for Barbecue hall of Fame.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I found that out last week.

Anyway, we'll be back, Tuffy.

Thank you, Ms.

Leanne.

Thank you.

And thank you.

We'll be After Hours to be coming up here shortly, so remember our motto here.

Turn it, don't burn it.

Take care, everybody.

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