Well, hello and welcome to the e-commerce podcast

with me, your host, Matt Edmundson.

The E-Commerce podcast is all about helping you deliver e-commerce wow.

Yes, it is.

That's what we say.

That's what we want to do.

And to help us do just that, I'm chatting with my very special guest

today, Rich Watson, from Augmented Hype about the amazing benefits of augmented

reality marketing for e-commerce.

Yes, you heard it here first, ladies and gentlemen, the

amazing benefits of augmented reality marketing for e-commerce.

But before, Rich and I jump into that conversation, let me suggest a few of

the e-commerce podcast episodes that I think you'll enjoy listening to.

We now have an extensive back catalog, uh, and I'm always amazed actually uh, Rich,

I don't know if you how many podcasts you've done, but I'm always amazed by

the stats showing me how many people are listening to episodes from years

ago, which is, it's a beautiful thing.

So check out how not to waste a bunch of money on crappy ads

campaigns with, uh, Jarod Spiewak.

That was a great conversation, uh, and why you should stop using Facebook

ads and start Google Advertising with John Horn was also a good one.

Uh, and you can find these and our entire archive of episodes on our

website for free at ecommercepodcast.net.

Now this episode is brought to you by the e-commerce cohort, which helps you

deliver e-commerce wow to your customers.

Now, I dunno how long you have been in e-commerce.

Uh, dear listener, maybe you're starting out, maybe you are new to the whole thing.

Uh, but it's a real issue trying to keep up, especially if you're working

by yourself or working in a small team.

So cohort is here to solve that problem.

It is a lightweight membership group, uh, with what we call guided

monthly sprints that cycle through all the key areas of e-commerce.

So every month, they deep dive into a topic, an area, it may be

marketing, it may be how to do augmented reality marketing, uh,

you know, all those kind of things.

Uh, the sole purpose of cohort is to provide you with clear,

actionable jobs to be done.

You get to work with an awesome group of people.

Uh, so it's just a great way to either get stuck into e-commerce or to make

sure that you are continually growing and develop in this amazing area, of life.

So whether you're starting out or whether like me, you're a bit of a

dinosaur in e-commerce, check out ecommercecohort.com, uh, or you can email

me directly at matt@ecommercepodcast.net with any questions that you have.

Okay, so let's dive into today's guest.

Rich Watson is a strong force in augmented reality marketing.

He has spoken all over the world about the future of e-commerce and

how he's gonna be bought into Web 3.0.

Rich has over eight years of Facebook ad media.

Uh, buying experience and he is an avid believer in non fungible tokens

and the metaverse, although Rich, when we were talking, uh, before we hit

the button, you're like, people think that usually means buying pictures of

monkeys, but you're more interested in the technology behind it, right?

Yeah, well I did, I was into NFTs, you know, of, you know,

when the massive spike happened and everybody started making a lot of money.

Of course, cuz there's like such excitement.

I was always interested in technology behind it.

I'm interested in blockchain technology.

I'm interested in web three in general.

So, you know, all these things sort of have more of a, you know, future vision.

Whereas this buying and selling art thing, I don't know, I think it might

die out or it would just sort of shrink to a very, very small percentage

of what it is now, essentially.

Yeah, I, It's funny, isn't it?

I, if there are, is anybody out there listening and would like to buy any of my

photos for a couple of hundred thousand?

You're more than welcome.

Uh, just get in touch.

We'll make it happen, Uh, . But beyond that, I, like you I'm

really fascinated by blockchain technology and how that all works.

Um, but I'm equally interested in your fascination with augmented reality.

So tell me about augmented hype and what it does, what your

company does and why it does it?

Yeah, sure.

So we help brands and agencies leverage augmented reality for their marketing.

So I think a lot of people have heard of augmented reality.

Um, you know, most people have heard of Pokemon Go, for example, but they

don't quite understand the connection between that, what the technology

is and how that can help them with.

You know, building this relationship with their customers, helping retain customers,

getting better marketing performance.

So that's really what we do.

We, we sort of start to work with people.

We focus on what their main bottlenecks are, and then we basically

create a bespoke augmented reality experience to harness their goal

and their objective they have.

So let's define right here at the start.

I mean, you say most people know augmented reality.

Uh, because of Pokemon Go, um, , uh, if my mum was watching this podcast, she'd

go, I've no idea what Pokemon Go is.

Uh, and I was, I was actually, I followed a link from your LinkedIn profile to

a, um, I've got it here actually an article that was posted on the Shopify

website, um, about augmented reality.

And there's a little graph on there, which tells me that the age of users

or where augmented reality is growing specifically is in Gen Zs and millennials.

You know, those sort of age gaps not age gaps?

Age ranges, which makes sense cuz it's use of technology.

So for the purposes of those who are maybe older than the millennial age,

uh, and like myself or, like my mum, have no idea what Pokemon Go is.

Just explain what augmented reality is and how is it different, if it is in

fact different from virtual reality.

Hmm, That's a really good question.

So, augmented reality is essentially upgrading your immediate

surroundings with digital assets.

That's like the best, easiest way to explain it.

And the way that differs from virtual reality is virtual reality

is essentially, you know, an entire environment that you're stepping into.

Whereas over, you know, augmented reality is just overlaying

the one you're already in.

So you just do that.

Glasses and of course, right now the majority of the time it's phones.

Uh, whereas virtual reality, you obviously you have to have a headset,

which I got, I got one of these right here, actually no it's downstairs.

But yeah, you know, you have to have this big, bulky headset on and you

are completely immersed in the world.

Whereas augmented reality, it's something that comes into,

you know, in front of you.

You put it on yourself, you put it in your surroundings mm-hmm.

, and you can still see what's going on around you.

And there's another thing called mix reality, which is essentially

a mix between both of them.

But if we go down that rabbit hole, it gets really confusing.

It's essentially like the AI onto VR, if that sort of makes sense.

Okay.

So that's mixed reality.

Uh, when you, Okay.

learning all kinds of terms today, mum.

If you're listening to the show now, um,

So what would be some examples of companies that have used AR well,

so you talked about Pokemon Go.

Um, what are some other maybe well known examples?

I think probably the, some of the biggest ones.

So Ikea have used it quite extensively for a long time now.

So it, they use it in lots of many, you know, different types of ways.

They use it to sort of, um, visualize products and catalogs, but they also

use it to enable you to have, uh, what's called a spatial AR experience.

So it basically means it's within your space.

Mm.

I'm not sure that why that's called, if that's why it's called spatial.

But anyway, um, and you can essentially have the product, you

know, the, the, the furniture within your space and you can basically

see what it's like in your house.

Because that's the, the biggest thing is like, okay, well I think that

would look good in my living room, but I don't a hundred percent know.

So Ikea definitely capitalizes on really, really well.

Um, loads of other brands have used sort of gamified versions.

So, you know, McDonald's, Burger King, they tend to use it more for

incentivizing gaming, maybe with some, uh, discount or something like that.

So the game would just be something, you know, like catching burgers in your mouth.

Something fun, you know, something that's gonna get engagement.

Um, and then recently, Mini have used it really well for showing

you their latest hatchback, I believe is one of the mini one.

Uh, you know, the, the sort of standard model they have.

And essentially you can plunk a mini down in your living room and you

can go through all the different colors and it's like, so it's, yeah.

It's quite, it's, it's used quite a lot for as is sort of like visualizing

something in your space, which is essentially like one key part of it,

but it's not really the only part.

But a lot of brands know that that's what people are expecting to use it for.

So that's sort of what they go into.

Not a lot of people have explored the realms of like, you know, what, what

really could actually be done with it and how you could dig a bit more because

it's so new and everyone's a little bit more, uh, wary of it as a new technology.

Yeah.

So that's like part of my mission is to show everyone all the

different ways it can be used.

And how that can benefit your businesses other than just seeing something

in front of you, which is a coarse call, but it's not the only way.

Yeah, no, and we'll get into that.

We'll get into that.

But let me, um, let me just deal with this at the moment so I can, using

the IKEA app or the website, I can sit there with my phone or my iPad.

I can put the camera on, I can be in my living room and see the living room, uh,

on my screen, on my iPad, or on my phone as I and then I can overlay furniture from

Ikea and IKEA using the technology on the iPad, and the phone will figure out the

right dimensions and so on and so forth.

And you can virtually place the chair or the sofa in the corner and you can

kind of get an idea of what it's like.

Um, when I was in the beauty business, um, we saw companies

like, uh, was it Maybelline that did the shades of lipstick one?

And you could try on different shades of lipstick.

Um, Just with, you know, by pointing the camera at yourself and you

can see what you look like with the different shades of lipstick.

I've seen that the sunglasses one was probably the most obvious one.

You know, what do you look like in these?

Uh, in these glasses.

And Warby Parker, I think, have used that, haven't they?

So you, I, I get that.

You can, you can use now your phone and you can use a technology to try things

on or to see things in your space.

Um, I guess my first question here, Rich, right at the, the, the basic level of that

is, let's say I'm a guy who's handcrafting furniture and I sell the pieces online.

I'm gonna look at the IKEA website and go, There's no way I can compete or,

and there's no way I can offer augmented reality because it, it just instantly

feels like, um, I dunno the technology.

And surely that's got to be expensive to get done, right?

I need a whole stream of developers.

I don't know if that's actually the case or true.

Maybe you could speak to that.

Yeah, I think that's a really good point.

And that's one of the biggest things that holds people back as well, is this

assumption that you have to have an app because that's always how it's been done.

And that's obviously how IKEA are doing it.

But we have, not only is it becoming more, you know, why there's more creators.

So it means that there's a lot, uh, different, those different ways

of using it, but also different, um, platforms are utilizing it.

So, of course we have social, we have web ar well obviously app based ar.

Um, and these are three completely different ways of

like housing the ar essentially.

And leveraging social obviously means there's already an audience

of, you know, for, for example, meta 5 billion people or 5 billion.

Yeah.

Something like that.

There's a lot.

It sounds like

there's a fair few.

Yeah.

It's 1 billion.

I've forgotten that.

But yeah, like there's obviously a load of people on there, but

whereas if you are creating an app or something, you have to be IKEA

for people to actually download it.

See it.

Otherwise it's a bit like, Oh, I'm throwing a birthday party.

I'm gonna put the invitation on a tree in a middle of a forest.

You know, no one's gonna see it, right?

Yeah, yeah.

So you're leveraging things like, um, Spark ar, which is meta's ar platform.

It means all these people can see it, but not only that, it makes it way more

affordable, cuz you can essentially work with one or two creators depending

on what your, how your concept is.

How, how complex the assets are, et cetera.

And you can have something really visually striking and really engaging, created on,

on a platform where you run ads already.

These are things that people aren't even aware of.

They think to use ar we have to have it on the website, we have to have an app.

But I'm sort of, and, and other, others like me are saying there's

social ar, which is not just Snapchat and Instagram, you know, bunny ears.

It's like ways of using AR.

And, and this is what speaks to, you know, you're going over the stats of like

the Shopify, I think it's the Shopify eCommerce, um, 3D versus 2D stats.

And they're talking about ar and of course, Gen Z and millennials are

the people who use it, um, the most.

And that's because of the exposure.

So the, the way that AR's been used so far has been for face filters

and that's, those are doing it.

But as adoption of AR goes on and we start seeing more ways of using it a

lot more people will be able to use it.

You know, older people will be able to use it and understand it more

and it'll be more relevant to them.

So, yeah.

Uh, so going back to your question, yeah, it's, it's becoming a lot

more affordable and it's becoming a lot more, um, accessible.

So you're not just happy, Oh, I'm not enough, I'm not big

enough brand to create an app.

You know, you can do that, of course.

But what I'm saying is you don't need to do that.

You just need to have a problem and a creative to

solve it, which is gonna be AR.

Okay, so actually then the technology is becoming

more and more accessible.

It's a bit like, um, years ago in e-commerce, uh, I remember

the first, the first hoo-ha about, You've gotta have video.

You've gotta have video, you know, for, to survive in e-commerce.

And you can, like, I remember those cries.

I mean, video is such a commonplace thing now.

You know, everyone's live streaming, they're doing live shopping now.

Everyone's doing like their own mini QVC channel.

Um, so it's interesting how commonplace video is in e-commerce.

So is this where you see augmented reality sort of heading?

Is it, it's sort of gonna become quite commonplace?

I think it's probably a matter of time, but

it's also a matter of technology.

Mm-hmm.

And I think, I do definitely think that the growing adoption with devices, you

know, mobile devices is gonna happen before glasses are more commonplace.

Mm-hmm..

But I do think it probably take glasses to replace things like video.

And I don't think video's ever gonna disappear.

Like it's not gonna, This is the main thing when I'm talking to people, you

know, e-commerce people, marketers.

Uh, they're like, Oh, should I use it in, what's the metrics versus a video?

It's like, well, it shouldn't be verses it should be, yeah, all in your arsenal.

You know, you don't go and get a photographer to do some photos and then

just throw the rest of the creative out.

You know, it's all complimenting each other.

It all reaches people with different sort of interests, et cetera.

So it could make it a little bit more redundant, less later down the line.

But I think it's gonna take the actual glasses coming out and not being

these huge, clunky, uncomfortable things, but something cool like Ray

Bans to, uh, for people to sort of forget about video and so forth.

Mm, that's interesting.

And it, it be like, I'm fascinated to see where it goes, you know, and,

and, and what you can do with it.

And I'm, I'm intrigued by how people are using the technology now.

Um, I'm fascinated by the fact you talked about Spark you know, with the Spark

AR, the, the sort of Facebook's version.

Um, it's not Facebook now is it Meta's version.

Uh, of a, a platform which you can use, which makes it accessible.

Now to the guy that's doing handcrafted furniture, he doesn't

have to be Ikea, um, anymore.

Are there, I guess if I'm going back to the guy in the workshop

doing handcrafted furniture,

I've still got that barrier in my head and it might not be cost.

I mean, I dunno what costs are gonna be, but I.

I've still got that barrier in my head that actually I just don't get it.

I don't understand it.

Um, so why should I, why should I think about this?

So, so I Maybe let's talk, talk about that.

What are the benefits, I suppose, of augmented reality in marketing?

Why should I think about it?

I think the biggest one that you can almost guarantee, obviously,

depending on what you're using, has crazy already, is the engagement.

And part of it's because it's essentially immersing someone into the ad, so it feels

completely personalized, essentially.

And it's very hard now, especially with meta to personalize things with

the lack of granular data we have.

Yeah.

So there's one like, and you, you can't guarantee any sort

of ROI and things like that.

Of course, anyone who's guaranteeing that you should run away.

But things I can do, you can guarantee almost because of, of the

fact there's a new technology and the fact it's, it's gonna be ultimately

thumb stopping is gonna, it's gonna make people just take notice of it.

So that's one of the biggest things to sort of, um, overcome

when you're doing ads anyway.

And then the other things are the platform likes it.

So if we're talking specifically about meta, cuz that's really

the, in my opinion, the best place to run augmented reality ads.

Uh, you can run 'em on other platforms, Snapchat, for example,

but the audience is a bit smaller.

You're able to get, So yeah.

Anyway, sort of went off a trail, but now I remember what I was talking

about, . Uh, they prefer you, they prefer I do that all the time.

That's, that's their goal is like, give people the best

experience on the platform.

And that's, you know, and then we win.

And what this does is the augmented reality keeps you

on the platform for longer.

So when you compare it to standard e-commerce video view

time, you're probably looking at six to 30 seconds, something.

Of course it completely differ, differs depending on the

Audience, the industry and things.

Um, but we, with augmented reality, we're seeing 60 seconds,

we're seeing over a minute.

And the reason is because it's you or it's your space and you're showing someone,

you're like, Oh, come look at this.

You know, all these sort of things.

Again, because it's a, a fairly new technology, maybe there's a novelty

aspect of it, but that the fact that people have longer dwell time with the

experience means the platform enjoying.

The CPMs drop down and your ad costs are lower.

And then you've also got really good engagement because it's a, you know,

completely revolutionary, uh, creative.

So all of those things compliment each other, you know, it's gonna

have better effects down the line.

So that's definitely something to, to take notice of before everybody else does.

Yeah.

And I obviously dunno when that's gonna be.

But I do think that we are seeing the, the initial bell curve, you

know, sort of dipped and it went down and then we had Covid and everything

became a little bit more accelerated.

We're sort of getting past the sort of gradual part now and we're seeing,

uh, acceleration of the adoption, which was in that graph like thing was

predicted to be a hundred, no, sorry, uh, a billion users this year and

it already passed a billion in June.

Wow.

So it's probably gonna be two, and then next year it's gonna be maybe two and

a bit, and then the year after that.

So we're gonna get, I think it's predicted to be 75% of the

population using AR by 2025.

Based on that, that prediction of model or that model.

So, You know, it's gonna be a common more commonplace thing than

we're we are seeing right now.

Yeah, Yeah.

So that's, it's rapid growth, isn't it?

I mean, that's massively rapid growth.

And it's interesting you talked about how the, the benefits

of using it in marketing.

I like that.

Obviously one, it's gonna increase engagement with customers.

I and you, I get that.

You know, Does this furniture fit in my room, yes or no?

Yes, it does.

Okay, I'll buy you and you're kind of answering questions, which everyone

has which stops people buying, You're removing the barriers to entry.

Does this shade of lipstick look good on me?

You know, do these glasses fit my face?

Um, all the stuff that's kind of stops you buying it, you're,

you're dealing with that in quite a clever way using technology.

So I can see how engagement would increase.

I can see how, um, people can't guarantee return on investment.

I can see how actually there are use cases, which, where that

would just go through the roof, uh, when using things like that.

But I'm, I'm really intrigued by this comment you, you mentioned about how,

the platform Meta really likes it as well because you are on it longer and

Meta is doing everything it can at the moment to try and keep you on the

platform longer and longer as it's losing more and more market share is,

it is rapidly scrambling, isn't it?

And so, um, it is gonna promote and use content which

keeps people on the platform.

And I, I don't think that can be understated or under, uh,

undervalued really at the moment.

So I thought that.

I thought that was actually quite insightful.

I like that.

I've even noted it down in my little notebook.

Uh, Rich, Um, I'm still analog, still analog.

Put 10 billion into it, you know, a couple years ago, VR and ar

and xr, of course, but my, completely my opinion, they lost a lot of people

with, First it was Cambridge Analytica and then there was iOS 14, and of

course, that's not their fault at all.

That's Apple.

Who are also doing their own AR stuff, by the way, but that's another discussion.

But the, the fact that they put all this money into it, I believe that

they're trying to get the best ad platform for immersive marketing.

By immersive marketing, I mean marketing with ar, with vr, with xr.

And the first to come out of all of that is ar, because it's just the

metaverse we speak of is a VR one.

Whereas I think as an AR one, because it's gonna up enhance our

actual reality first before we just jump into a ready player one world.

And they know that too.

So they're trying to re, you know, bring, bring the, uh, the dominance back.

Cause obviously TikTok are just smashing at the moment.

They just, Yeah.

Most people I talk to, I don't do Facebook anymore.

TikTok da.

So that's why I think they're focusing a lot more on this.

And they're, they're, we putting a big bet on it.

So that's why I think the platform is, is so right for the picking

for people who wanna look at this.

Mm.

That's a very good point.

I was, I was listening.

Well, this is totally slightly but totally slightly off topic.

I was listening, someone talk about this, the big sort of TikTok

versus Facebook debate and how, um, Facebook was built on the concept

of the social graph, wasn't it?

You have to be connected, you know, and you go on there because of your social

connections, and they're showing you less and less content to do with your

social connections and more and more of the stuff which people are paying for.

So you've less and less reason to go on Facebook.

And the same now actually with Instagram.

Whereas TikTok was never built on the premise of a social graph.

It was built on the premise of we're gonna entertain you very.

You know, easily, and you're gonna get sucked in way more than you

think you're going to, but you're gonna get sucked into this world of

immersive sort of short clip videos.

And, um, and I, I, I think I, I do find this scramble of meta now quite

fascinating, you know, and how TikTok has sort of changed everything again.

Um, but they are two different platforms and I, I'm kind of

curious to see where it all goes.

So let's back to ar, augmented reality.

So you mentioned that META is the best platform to start looking

at and start doing stuff on.

Right.

And there are certain industries, rich, where I go, Okay, I get it.

I understand it.

Furniture makes sense, makeup makes sense.

Um, but I have, Let me ask you about this.

How would it work for, say this brand here?

Right?

So this is a supplement brand.

Um, Vegetology's Omega three, which is a vegan, a omega three.

Right.

Um, and full disclosure, I am part of this company and it

just happened to be on my desk.

Hence the reason I just picked it up and I thought, I'm thinking to myself, how would

I take advantage of something like that for a company like this where it's maybe

not as obvious, um, what I should do.

I think so I've seen some examples for fitness brands

and, you know, I'm completely pulling these concepts uh, on my mind right

now, but it would be something to do with tying it into a routine.

So what I'm thinking is gamifying it in a way where you, I dunno, check

in every day and it, it tells you which day it is and you're like,

taking my pill or something like that.

And it's sort of, you share that on social and people can see that

you are, you know, you've got this accountability or something like that.

So it's, it's quite difficult to come up with a concept straight

from, straight, from like nothing.

But I think with something, It's really, I guess the, the AR should be based

on the emotion you want them to feel.

I mean, any advertising should be really, but you can have a much more

powerful way of doing it if you can find that concept that works well.

So usually whenever I work with someone who's a bit unsure about the concept,

it's like, Okay, what are you doing now?

What works now?

And it's like, um, oh, we have people, I don't know.

Uh, giving a gift to someone and the experience of giving the gift is

a thing that people want to enjoy.

It's like, I've given you this gift and, and then they're looking at you like, Oh,

wow, this person really thought about me.

You know, they really, So then you, Okay, how do I encapsulate that into ar?

And you know, that's, that's the sort of concept they came up with, like a

dream box that sort of opens and you tap on it and you know, the gift comes up.

So maybe something around those lines.

Maybe gamifying it in some way or giving some people some Snippet of the

emotion you want them to be having?

Yeah, by using it, in this case, I guess motivation, you know, staying vegan,

making sure that you are, uh, taking care of your body, something like that.

And also needs to be an element of showing off as well, because then

that builds the social proof and the virality of it potentially as well.

So, Okay.

So the user needs to show off a little bit.

Yeah, I think so.

Mm, I mean it could be influencers as well.

I mean, this is right for the pick influencers as well because,

you know, organic reach can be absolutely massive on this.

There was one, a guy made a, I talk about this all the time just cause

I'm dumbfounded by it, but this guy in Singapore, called Eugene, uh, is

founder of a AR firm called Dude.

He created this squid game game, which basically was the red light,

green light game, and you are the person and you are, you move forward

and then you know when the girl moves around, you stop or you die.

That reached 500 million people organically as an AR experience, and

anyone watching this or listening to this is probably remembering,

Oh, I saw that it was, that's none.

There was no paid adss or anything like that.

So you can imagine that if you found something of that effect, obviously

you'd not copyrighting anything, but if you found something of that, The amount

of organic reach you get is, is huge.

So I would probably go down that route for this, because that's, this is

more, it feels like more of a tribal thing, like people want to be part

of a community, things like that.

Well, okay.

I sorry to throw you in at the deep end there.

I just thought, oh, randomly pick up a product and see,

see how we, see how we do.

So, gameify, gameify supplements.

Mm-hmm.

. Um, what else have you seen work in the eCommerce space, uh, work well that,

um, listeners to the show kind of go, Well, that makes sense for my business.

You know, some of those ideas.

Um, yeah, quite a few.

I guess the best ones really to mention.

The ones that I can back with data.

So I mean, we've got some case studies for myself.

Um, and there's some also, there's some ones with meta.

There's a really good case study, four case studies, uh, given out

from meta from Mini actually was one I already mentioned before.

And then another one's Avon.

Yeah.

And they like use a game.

They use a game basically to, to use theirs as well.

And uh, they all found, like, so with these four examples, so the other two

one was like, um, an animation or anime.

I think from Korea.

And then there's another one that was a, um, social awareness or social impact

group in somewhere in eastern Europe.

I don't remember the country now, but they found when, you know, these, these

companies were running ads themselves.

So the, the actual examples were very different.

So it's tie in, but the, the experiment they're trying to run is okay.

What, how does the cost compare when they run the AR with

the business usual campaigns.

So they actually found that running this, uh, then compared to running

business as usual alone is they got a 59% decrease in, uh, ad inventory

costs just because of the massive, massive engagement that was there.

So I think probably I'll definitely share that if anyone wants to read that one.

Um, but for us, we've got a few case studies, so I'll probably talk

about the, the most known one is, um, the people that will probably be

able to find more relevant is this, uh, glasses brand for, uh, babies.

So it's called Babiators.

They have, uh, UV protection for, for children and babies.

Babiators.

That's such a great name.

That's such a cool name.

If you're listening Babiators, that is awesome.

I like that.

That's really cool.

Yeah, they're based all over the world, I think, and we just

work with the ones in Australia.

Um, but essentially they have, before they were having all their Ad

creative was really awesome photos, like really good photography, really

pristine and clean and also looking, but they weren't, there wasn't a.

No, there wasn't like native feel to it.

There wasn't ugc, they didn't have a lot of that.

Mm-hmm.

. So they wanted to be able to create something that created ugc, but

also, you know, just made some of the objections they were getting or some

of the, I guess like people things that are turning people off when

they're buying it make it a bit easier.

And the most common questions they found is, Styling sizing, things like that.

Like, is this gonna look good on my baby?

Basically, because it's hard to tell.

So that's where AR came in and completely, you know, improved everything.

Like drastically.

Yeah, because you know, you can actually experience it.

So what, what we created was you created a four way split where you can

try four different pairs on and tap onto one in, it zooms in full screen.

Um, and it could be potentially, if you have your child there, you

could just do selfie or you could just do back camera if you wanted.

So, You can see what it looks like on that.

And what they found was actually they got, um, increase in average order

value of uh, I think it was over 50%.

Because people, instead of buying two pairs, they were buying four now.

Right?

Of course.

Yeah, yeah.

Four.

And then they're like, Oh, I wouldn't have thought that look would look good.

And it did.

So people would increase that and that led to them getting, I think,

44% increase in return on ad spend.

So now we are also, not only that, but they were also creating ugc.

So when people were sending videos, they had an incentive like, Hey,

send this into us and you get entered into this competition.

So people were sending videos and we actually use that as the ad creative

to pull people into the AR experience.

So like free ad creative, Clever.

Yeah, it was really cool campaign.

That one I talk, I talk about that one quite a lot and there's some, a bit more

information in some content I've done if anyone wants more context on that one.

So babiators, are they still running that campaign or

is it just like a temporary thing?

They've still got the, um, they've still got the, So you can,

when you upload in meta, you can upload the AR as AR ad or as an AR experience.

And when it's an experience, it lives in the back of Instagram and Facebook, but

it's still in the back of their Instagram.

Mm-hmm.

. So I think they can still use it.

You can, this is the beautiful thing.

You have one AR asset created, you can use in ads.

You can also use it in your, all your organic stuff.

I mean mm-hmm.

. Same as all creative, right?

But for example, with this, you would just send it through my list and go,

Hey guys, check this out and then tell us what you think, or send us

a video and we enter you into this.

Uh, you can do it in Messenger, you can just do it on your website.

You can have a link to it.

All these sort of things.

So they're still using it, I think, organically to be able to run it.

But in terms of actually finding people's ads that ar, you can't actually.

Unless they actually come up on your feed organically, you can't go to ads library

and search, which is really frustrating.

Cause I wish you could Do they.

Okay.

They don't come up in, Okay, that's interesting.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

If you actually organically comes up in your, um, not organically.

Do, you know what I mean?

If you, if it comes up your feed, then that's how you see AR ads.

But most people haven't really seen them because not many people are using them

unless they're, you know, big brands.

Yeah.

Sometimes it like Christmas time, Black Friday, you see a few but.

Yeah, it's not, it's not a hugely used creative, unfortunately.

I mean, where Black Friday questions, I, I'm curious, have

you seen any good examples of ar used around Black Friday that were, that made

you kind of go, That's really clever.

That's, that's well thought through.

Yeah, so there was one from Boohoo.

They used it.

Um, it was basically a, a game, like a hacking game.

And it had a location based AR element to it, and it's called Hack Friday.

And the whole idea of it was, I think you basically went to this location and

there was a boohoo board and you would, um, have your phone and look up at it

and it would give you some Easter egg or something, and then you would send it to

them to say, Oh, I've seen whatever it is.

So it's almost like a, an Easter, Easter hunt, like a treasure.

And then you do it with them.

That was pretty cool.

And then there's another one called goat, which was a similar idea, but the idea for

them was to find these like, um, I think they're like, they're a sneaker brand.

And the idea was to go to these locations and find these like

hidden sneakers somewhere.

So both of these were very soon after Pokemon Go.

So everyone was like, Oh, that was such a good concept.

So all the marketing people went about how do we use that for our brand?

And that's just one section.

That's what I.

Just it being a visual thing.

It can also be this gamified thing.

It can also be more of an interactive thing, all these things.

So yeah, those are the only two examples I've seen for Black Friday specifically.

But they both smashed it for them.

I think they had really, really good results on that.

And I just did a, a video on Black Friday actually, or I think I

talked through it a bit more detail.

So if anyone wants to have a look at that on Yeah, my socials.

Okay.

Uh, and we will link to all of those, of course, in the show notes.

So, um, which will be available on the website.

So we'll, we'll put all the links in there.

Um, Chris is really, uh, Chris Rich.

I, Why I said Chris, I'm just thinking of Christmas is what I'm thinking of.

Now you've got me a Black Friday and I'm thinking Christmas.

Do I do a, do I do an augmented reality where someone dresses up as Santa Claus?

Um, the, I guess the, um, I'm sitting here listening to you and actually, uh, from,

as an e-commerce entrepreneur myself, we're in an e-commerce business, right?

I'm, my, my mindset is kind of like, this is really cool.

If I could figure out a way to make this work, I can see that

there's a lot of benefits here.

Um, so how do I get started?

Where do I, where do I begin?

Because this is all, like you say, there's, there's four people in the

world that seem to know about it.

You're one of them.

It's kind of like, how do we, how do we get started?

How do we begin if we wanna start heading down this road?

I think the best way to start is where is your bottleneck?

Like what is the thing you're trying to achieve?

So there's obviously, I'll give an example.

There's something that helped with AOV that was that main focus of that one.

Mm-hmm.

. We've also worked with people who have problems with really low engagement.

So the main focus was, okay, get people engaging.

We've had things where people wanted the granular data, so

we kept the dwell time longer.

So it's like something that keeps people more engaged for a longer time.

So whatever that focus is, you can also, So obviously we

talked a lot about social ar.

You can also be using AR for your site.

You know, you actually product visualizations is most of the time,

like what people use AR and 3D site.

But then you can also use it post-purchase.

So I call it post-purchase ar, and I don't know what everyone else calls

it, but essentially it can be giving people extra utility on their product.

and the way that can be envisaged is, you know, a manual to teach

people how to use the product properly or how to maintain it.

Yeah.

Or give them some sort of game to make it even extra more fun.

This is used a lot in, you know, kids' toys and education, stuff like that.

And a lot of things have shown that studies are showing that people

actually, you know, the, the customer service queries drop because you're

showing people how to use things and they're actually looking at them.

Cuz you know, when you get people, people are manual, they're not

gonna bother looking at it.

It's a bit boring bit of.

But if you turn it into something more immersive and you know, for example,

if it's a car and it, you have an AR experience in your car to show people

where everything is that they need to know and all the latest gadgets

and everything like that, they're actually gonna look at it and use it.

And then there's gonna be less issues when they, uh, they get buyers

remorse, Oh, I don't have to use this.

It doesn't work.

Yeah.

So there's the, those are ways you can basically use it.

So going back to your question, it's really about where, what's

the area that your, your first bottleneck is, or the biggest one?

Um, what sort of creative are you using that works well now.

And also have a look at, you know, people within your, your industry directly or

who are marketing to your market and see if anyone's done any ar that's, that's

relevant to what you are sort of doing.

And, you know, just looking at more examples and of course hopefully let

you know, me talking and us sharing these ideas is it starts to get

the top a little bit in your mind.

You're like, Okay, actually I could see that.

And then it's just a matter of matching the idea with the capabilities of AR.

Because it's not a hundred percent there yet.

Well, I dunno.

Doesn't really make any sense.

I guess.

How can it be a hundred percent ever there?

It's always be different development Do, you know what I mean?

Like for example, tech is not great yet.

So if you are a clothing brand, the way we've got around it is actually

creating a virtual mannequin where you can try different outfits on them.

But if you want to try photos on yourself, it looks a bit funky, not gonna lie.

The facial tracking, the hand tracking, the foot tracking, things like that.

Really good.

Like you, most of the time you can't tell it's not real, that's the thing.

But it's, there's still limitations to it.

So know the limitations as well, cuz then you can avoid pushing your creator

too hard cuz that can happen a lot.

It's like, I want this to happen.

It's like there isn't technology that does that yet.

Um, but you know, like they always try and just do everything you tell you.

Yeah, I'll just do it.

Yeah, that's fine.

And then, yeah, I mean, that thing I was saying earlier, like what's

the experience you want 'em to have?

Like how, how do you want them feeling being in the AR experience

and how, what, what's the customer journey afterwards as well?

So I think once you've thought those, you know, four things, um, you know,

you can approach somebody who creates ar for example, augmented hype, and sort of

share your ideas, share your brands, you know, share the creatives that are working

well and have worked well in the past or.

You know, Q4 creatives that were well in the past.

And then from that you, you know, you basically create a few

concept ideas and then approve one or two, or, or many of them.

Yeah.

Um, and then putting 'em in place and start, start activating them and,

you know, start reaping the benefits.

Brilliant.

Absolutely brilliant.

So, uh, Rich, listen, I'm aware of time, uh, and it's, it seems to be getting away

from us, but, um, uh, I appreciate that.

Uh, let me ask you a question.

Uh, you've got on your virtual reality headset, um, you and your

virtually in a Crowd of people.

, uh, you've delivered your keynote talk on how to do augmented reality

marketing to either e-commerce cohort guys, because, you know,

they sponsor the show, so why not?

Let's bring them in.

Uh, and they're, they're virtually stood up on their feet,

giving you a round of applause.

And, and, you know, crowds going wild.

Yeah.

Go Rich, go Rich.

Uh, and, um, you come back on stage and you just, you'd

say, Listen, thanks for that.

Uh, I would just like to thank dot, dot, dot.

Who would you thank a person, a book, a podcast, a film?

What, what springs to mind?

Who, who would you thank?

Who would you mention?

I'm thinking just a person, but now I'm thinking a person

and a book because of As of we said.

So I think the book would, for me would be, it doesn't really sound like anything

to do with what we were talking about, but Built To Sell is probably one of

the most powerful books I've read, and it's just about taking us out, taking

yourself out of the implementation.

And trying to be the brain of the body, you know, not trying to be the, the arms

and the legs and everything else as well.

So even if it's your ideas and to sell your business within five years,

having that in, you know, what the book tells you to do in place means

that you can drive the vision.

And that's one thing I see for agency owners and business owners

in general, finding it hard to do.

They're just still in the weeds, you know, doing stuff and then

everything just goes over their head.

So that was really powerful.

And in terms of person, I think, Um, Casey Millhouse, who's my AR mentor,

essentially, she, uh, now works at Meta.

Um, she showed me the ropes of, of augmented reality and when I didn't

realize it was even a potential, a possibility, apart from I'd already

started running some AR as just to test them out, um, she took me

under a wing and showed me like, you know, what AR can do for marketing.

And since then it's just been an obsession of mine.

So, you know, I owe it all to her basically.

Fantastic.

Well, Casey, if you're listening, thank you because, uh, it meant

that we got this episode, uh, and I'm really intrigued by it.

And it's, um, I have to be honest with you, I've not got

involved yet with AR marketing.

Um, and, uh, what you have done, Rich, is you have sparked something

in my imagination, which is there's 40,000 questions now in the back

of my head about, about the whole thing, which I'm kinda like, well,

let's, let's start looking into this.

Let's start finding out.

So I liked your points on terms of how to get started, and

so we're gonna look at that.

Um, what about you guys listening to the podcast?

You intrigued by it?

Um, and what are your plans?

Let us know.

Uh, Rich, listen, if people listening to the show wanna reach out, they

want to get in touch with you, what's the best way for them to do that?

Yeah, I think.

So I have a free Facebook group called AR Ad Strategies, which

you can join absolutely free.

It's mainly for marketers and for agencies and for brand owners.

Um, and there I just give you all the juice, all the information I

have, you know, to start these ideas going ahead and uh, you know, that's

really the best place to sort of start, you know, firing off questions.

We got other agency owners in there with brands who've all done AR.

So, you know, this is community of people who are sort of at the, the

forefront and they're all testing it out and mm-hmm had great success

with it and sharing that with others.

Um, so I think that's probably the best place.

Other than that, yeah, I share a lot on socials, so, uh, my Facebook, my

LinkedIn, or my Instagram is probably the best to learn a little bit more.

Fantastic.

We will, of course, linked to all of those in the show notes.

Um, but the Facebook group, I'm gonna go join AR ad, Is that what It's the

Facebook group's called AR ad Strategies?

Yep.

That's it.

Okay.

We'll go search that and see what comes up.

Uh, Rich, listen, thank you so much, uh, for joining us today.

It's been a phenomenal conversation.

Um, I've really, I'm honestly, I've really enjoyed it and so,

um, really, really helpful.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you for being with us.

Uh, it's been, uh, it's been great.

Absolutely great.

So, A big shout out again to today's show sponsor the e-commerce cohort.

Do head over to uh, ecommercecohort.com.

Uh, for more information about this new type of community that you can join.

Uh, be sure to follow the e-commerce podcast wherever you get your

podcast from because well, we've got yet more great conversations lined

up with people like Rich, and I don't want you to miss any of them.

And in case no one dear listener has told you yet today.

You, my friend are awesome.

Yes, you are.

It's just a burden we all have to bear.

It's just the way we've been made.

We are awesome people.

Uh, the E-Commerce podcast is produced by Aurion Media.

You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app.

The team that makes this show possible is Sadaf Beynon, Josh Catchpole,

Estella Robin and Tim Johnson.

Our theme song has been written by Josh Edmundson and My Good Self.

And as I mentioned, if you would like to read the transcript or show notes

from today, head over to the website, ecommercepodcast.net, where coincidentally

you can also sign up for the newsletter.

So that's it from me.

That's it from Rich.

Uh, thank you for joining us.

Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world.

I'll see you next time.