00:00:06 Sana: You know that voice in your head, listeners, that says if you're not hustling twenty four over seven, you are not serious about your business? Yeah. That one. Well, today's guest is here to tell us that voice is full of it.

00:00:23 Sana: Welcome back, listeners to the podcast. I'm your host, and today we are talking about something that I think a lot of us feel, but we really admit out loud the gnawing sense that we are supposed to be grinding harder, sleeping less, and somehow loving every exhausting minute of it. Now, listeners, I am joined by Bianca King, founder of Pretty Damn Ambitious and creator of the Joyful Ambition Framework. She spent nearly thirty years in business, closed over Hear Me Out one point six billion dollars in transactions. She started a marketing agency during the Great Recession with just seven hundred dollars and a laptop, and has helped and since helped her clients generate over two eighty million dollars in revenue. and she has been featured in essence, Forbes, entrepreneur, Fast Company, and Success Magazine. But then leaving aside the numbers, the the, the mentions and everything, something that really caught my attention listeners, is, um, she left home at thirteen to escape instability and built a life and a business on her own terms, and now she's teaching ambitious women how to scale without sacrificing their sanity, their relationships, or their peace. So if you have ever felt like, you know, success and joy are not possible, they're mutually exclusive. Or if you are tired of being told that burnout. It's kind of the badge of honor or the price of ambition. Stay with us, because this conversation is going to challenge some things we have been told to believe. So let's get into it. And Bianca, welcome to this plan. I'm absolutely honored to have you here.

00:02:24 Bianca B. King: Thank you. Sana. Um, it's absolutely amazing to be here as well.

00:02:29 Sana: Um, okay. Uh, Bianca, um, let's directly start with the framework first. And of course, I would personally love to, um, kind of get a glimpse of your journey. But before that, let's talk about joyful ambition here. And if I have to be honest, um, you know, when the words joyful ambition, uh, like, a part of me would think that maybe it's just another way to rebrand work life balance or work life farming. Because we have all heard that, you know, wellness walk. I mean, now corporates bringing up wellness programs and, you know, podcasts and everything. But then we when we look around, um, people actually making money still seem to be the ones working eighty hour weeks. So what makes Joyful ambition different from, you know, just trying to be less stressed while still doing all the same things.

00:03:24 Bianca B. King: Right. So let's go back just a little bit because I am I was that person working eighty hours a week. And I found that it was not sustainable. Um, during the kind of break that we all had for Covid, uh, it I had to take a moment to really evaluate where I was in my life and where I want it to go. Um, and with that, I was like, okay, there's got to be a little bit of a different, better way. Fast forward to I'm not exactly sure what year, but sometime between twenty two and twenty three, I wrote an article for Fast Company, and in that article I was explaining, like, it's time for us to redefine ambition. And part of that article, um, I came up with a new definition for ambition, which is the joyful, diligent pursuit of success informed by one's ideals. So with that, that kind of branched into the whole framework of joyful ambition. So joyful ambition essentially is a way to really embrace your ambition, but not the toxic version of ambition that most of us are used to. And it's a five. A framework is what I call it. So that's, um, awareness, attraction, alignment, um, an abundance. And why am I forgetting one of one of the A's? But nevertheless, it's a framework to really help you understand what you want versus the traditional way that ambition is typically, uh, brought to us. And a lot of our ambition, it's not ours. It's actually inherited. It's what our parents have asked us to do. It's what society has asked us to do. It's what these expectations, especially for women, um, a lot of these things aren't even what we have signed up for. And then we call it ambition. So it's a way of reframing your ambition. And again, you know, getting getting rid of the toxic way and really understanding and honing in on what you want. And you do that through the first aid, which is awareness.

00:05:25 Sana: And that actually makes, um, a lot of sense here. And one thought that comes to my mind, you know, um, specifically, um, and to all the listeners, let me give you, um, let me give you a kind of a note here that I'm not bringing up, like, you know, very gender biased discussions or gender based discussions or conversations here. But then, like, as I've observed this, you know, like as a woman, um, the kind of expectations and when you try to kind of get out of those expectations, there are only two extremes here. Either you have to be like, absolutely successful just to shut the mouths and, you know, prove everyone else wrong or else you are a failure or you have to kind of accept whatever is in front of you. And I think that is a very, very slippery slope. And that is something which kind of, you know, it creates a lot of blockers, uh, for, you know, anyone because any woman who will think that, okay, this is my dream or this is my ambition and, uh, just because, you know, people are saying that, you know, you shouldn't be that much ambitious. You shouldn't be that much. You know, it's it's selfish of you to think, even think about that. You know, you have your own dreams and ambitions. You have to like, you know, completely burn yourself out to make sure that you get to that point. You get to that end point, you get to your goal, you achieve, and you prove everyone else wrong. But then I don't think that it serves you in any way. It's just for the people who are pointing fingers at you.

00:07:09 Bianca B. King: Yeah, for sure. I mean, again, part of the issue is Women are are told that we shouldn't be ambitious, and especially if you're a woman of color or or a black person, especially in the US. And why? Why shouldn't we be ambitious? What is what is the issue with our ambition? Because it is this powerful force that can be used to help you achieve success. The definition of ambition is your desire to achieve success. So there really isn't anything wrong with ambition. Even though most people would try to lead you to think that it is. Now our society unfortunately, has made ambition and ruthlessness synonymous, even though they're two different words. Ruthlessness is, um, you know, you climbing over people, backstabbing, doing anything and everything you can do to become successful, whereas ambition is just your internal desire to succeed. And I think once people really have and understand that real definition, then they're able to accept that. Yeah, actually. Actually, I am ambitious. And how do I cultivate more of it in a more joyful way so that I can achieve, you know, whatever I'm trying to do, um, and have some joy with it.

00:08:28 Sana: I think this is a very, very, um, one of the key highlights or takeaway I hope listeners will take away from this conversation because, yes, sometimes, you know, um, the line between, uh, the difference between, um, root ruthlessness and, and being ambitious can be, can be very much blurred. So I think that distinction, it really, really needs to be highlighted here. And um, I also believe that, you know, like because you mentioned earlier that you started your agency during the Great Recession, um, with seven hundred dollars, a laptop and a plane ticket, I think it was, uh, two thousand and eight, uh, when two thousand and eight economic crash. The housing crisis and everything. And I think this is not exactly a hassle free origin story. Um, so when when did you realize, Bianca, that the hustle mentality that maybe got you started gave you the head start wasn't going to be the thing that sustained you? Like, was there any specific breaking point or like a series of moments or realizations?

00:09:41 Bianca B. King: Yeah for sure. So before I started my agency back in two thousand and eight, I worked in corporate for over ten years, and I worked in commercial real estate on a team that closed over one point four billion dollars worth of transactions. And during that time, when I was working in corporate, I was also working on, um, my real estate license, my MBA. I did everything that you were supposed to do in corporate. I checked every box. I started from the bottom and climbed my way to the top. I started off as an administrative assistant, moved on to financial analyst and then eventually brokerage associate. I was employee of the year twice. Um, I won deal of the year. I did everything that you were supposed to do to have, quote unquote, success. Um, uh, in, in corporate, uh, but it burned me out. And that was a version of success that I was like, if and a lot of women feel feel this way right now, if that if that is what success looks like, then I want no part of it. Right? Beyond the systemic issues that were happening as well. I decided at thirty two with my husband's blessing, even though we had only been married for seven years to start my agency seven five seven three marketing Group, and that was May of two thousand and eight. So I brought, because I was in that toxic culture, I brought all of those toxic culture, uh, norms into my agency when I started it. Uh, I would be up at four am working. I'd work to eight, eight p m. My husband would be like, where are you? I would like to spend some time with you. So I kept going and almost burned out again. And I was like, there's got to be a better way. This is ridiculous. Am I still doing the same thing when I'm the boss? Like, why am I still having the same, um, hustle and toxic, um, nature? When, when I'm. When I'm the boss. And that was like around, uh, twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen when I was starting to feel burned out again. And at that point, goodness, I had been running my agency for how many years is that? You count you count this in twenty eighteen, eighteen, twenty, nineteen. And again, you know, the you know, during the time Covid, I paused and had to really think about what I wanted to do. And this is how joyful ambition basically came about. It was like, it's this anti hustle, uh, way of looking at how to really make sure that you still have a ton of success. Um, but at the same time, you still have, um, relationships and all of that. And it's not about balance, because I hate when people say, well, find the balance. There is no balance when you're an entrepreneur. There really is. Um, but there are ways that you can really lean into certain aspects of it. When there's seasons of growth, then you lean into the growth, right? And then you don't necessarily think about, oh my God, I need to be doing this over here. And then vice versa when, you know, maybe things are running a little bit more smoothly, then you're leaning into your family or your relationships a little bit more. I'm not saying that joyful ambition is, um, the magic key, where you're not going to ever have any struggle or whatever. It's a way of choosing to deploy your ambition in a way that can be more joyful and fulfilling as you create the success that you want. Um.

00:13:00 Sana: I think that makes sense. I mean, first of all, um, you were in in that industry which got the direct hit And, um, then you started from there. I mean, you completely, like, had a transition. Um, you realized that, uh, you know, because I think people I mean, in, in workplaces and startups and corporates, enterprises, when you are in a leadership position, people look up to you, people they would like to learn from you, or maybe they would have their own thoughts and opinions about you. But at the end of the day, you are the boss. I have to listen to you. So you are. I mean, fortunately or unfortunately you are. I mean, it all starts from the top down and then it trickles down to, um, the ones who would be, um, in large teams or working at the front lines in there. Um, so I think it has to first start at an individual level for the leader. And, uh, I really appreciate that. You know, you shared that because, um, especially as an entrepreneur or being a leader, vulnerability, emotional intelligence, these are not something that are commonly well accepted. Uh, there are a lot of nuances around it, but but I really love that you are flipping the narrative, you know, especially for women, because it's the idea that, you know, we have to prove ourselves through suffering. Then only we get that we deserve to enjoy the success. We're allowed to enjoy the success. It kind of has been internalized.

00:14:49 Bianca B. King: Yeah, for sure. And you hit the nail on the head. It starts with awareness, right? Um, again, part of the five A's of Joyful Ambition, which are awareness, alignment, attraction, uh, action and abundance. Uh, I really want to make sure I get those right, but the first is awareness, you know, really making sure that you understand, you know, what you want as an individual, especially if you're an entrepreneur. And then if you are an entrepreneur that's running a team or you're growing a business really leaning into the culture that's going to be effective for everyone, not just yourself, right. Because I do feel a lot of a lot of entrepreneurs were so focused on the revenue cycle or the sales cycle. We can, like, literally lose sight of the people who are helping us. Right? So how do we ensure that we have that emotional talent, that emotional intelligence? We have that awareness so that we are making sure that we're taking care of ourselves and our team as well. It starts with us, just like you said.

00:15:51 Sana: Of course, of course. Um, and I want to get into something that, you know, might be a little uncomfortable because I think it is what some listeners would probably be wondering right now, but maybe they would not say it out loud like your framework. It specifically, uh, for ambitious women in, um, expert based service businesses. And I get that because, you know, there is a specificity there. Um, like, there's a particular experience in there. But then here is kind of a tough question, like, is the idea of scaling without sacrifice actually a privilege that only works? Um, if you have already reached a certain level of experience or success or financial stability, like, you know, because for someone who is just starting right now, um, trying to make rent or working a day job, then building on the site something like a side hustle, um, I think joyful ambition. It might still feel like, you know, not possible. Maybe. You know, they'll say that I wait for some time, I'll see the right conditions. I'll see the right situation and then I'll think about it. Like, how do you reconcile that?

00:17:12 Bianca B. King: Yeah, that's an amazing question. And I do agree that it does come from a slight place of privilege. And I only say slight only because it's about making sure that you have your mindset. Right? Right. Because regardless if you're starting out or you've been doing this for almost twenty years like I have, it's how you decide that you want to react to any given situation. Your ambition should be a magnet that's pulling you, not pushing you. If your ambition is pushing you, I would encourage you to really examine it and see what ambition you are deploying. Is it yours, or is it some crazy societal measure that you're trying to accomplish, or is it something that you're trying to do because your parents said that you need to do X, Y, and Z right there? If we're putting ourselves in this position as entrepreneurs or side hustlers, whatever. We understand and know that we have a desire to do something else beyond whatever current thing that we were doing or what we're doing previously. Now, how do we decide to get our minds straight so that when we are going through all these different challenges and difficulty and so forth, that you can still have some satisfaction and fulfillment around it? Um, it's it's really it's honestly it is mindset. I'm not going to sit here and say that it's easy because it's not. You know, I've built two businesses from the ground, um, actually three because my husband also owns one, too. I'm a silent partner, but it's really about how you decide you want to show up. And there's and believe me, there's days when I have bad days and I'm like, you know, I you know, this, this day isn't exactly the way I intended it to be or so forth. But at the same time, it really is all about you and how you decide you're going to, um, engage with external circumstances, right? Because it's all internal joy starts with you. Doesn't start with anything external.

00:19:16 Sana: Absolutely. I really love that. I love that take. Uh, Bianca here because, um, you're not glossing over the reality that, yes, some seasons are harder than others. And then, um, something that you mentioned in the beginning as well, um, like a structural piece of this because I think it's very important. Um, okay. Let's say, you know, a lot of hustle culture, conversations, focusing on the individual responsibility, individual accountability. But then what about the systems that make it harder for women, especially, um, women of color, uh, to scale without grinding? Like, you know, it can be lack of access to capital. It can be Unpaid labor we are expected to do. And the fact that, you know, we are often building without safety nets. Does joyful ambition address those systemic barriers?

00:20:13 Bianca B. King: Yeah, it does not address the systemic barriers because we can't control that. That is not anything that we can do in this moment to help. Right. We have been fighting heroically over the past fifty years to have the different rights that we, you know, want as women, you know, especially here in the US, only fifty years ago were we able to, uh, have our own credit card and open a bank account in our name without our husband or a father or someone who could, you know, easily? Um, you know, uh, help us. Right. Uh, we finally have access and rights. And unfortunately, especially here in the US, in the US, some of those rights are starting to be taken away from us again. But but with that, we can't control that. It's been fifty only. I'm sorry. Fifty years is just isn't that long. So how do we really make sure that we are not leaning into any of those narratives? How do we start creating, uh, spaces and places for us? Right, right now, going through what everyone is calling the great wealth transfer. Women are about to inherit precedented amounts of wealth. Wealth three to four trillion dollars, trillion dollars over the next decade or so. So now that we have this economic power, what are we going to do as women to, for lack of a better word, start dismantling the patriarchy? Right. With these funds that we have, how are we going to empower more women to ensure that they can have the success that has been afforded to white, cisgender men.

00:21:57 Sana: Exactly, exactly. I absolutely love the, um, raw, honest answer here, Bianca. Yes, all of the factors or things or part of the systems will not be in our control. And, you know, sometimes it can be a hard, a brutal reality that, you know, no one is going to come and save us. I think we have to take control in our own hand. Yeah. And, uh. But but then, of course, um, I think, um, it happens not just at the individual level, but when, you know, there is, um, a movement or maybe changing happening at a local level, at a community level, and it doesn't have to be like a big, you know, event. It can be as small as, you know, maybe a group or a small team who is advocating for maybe systemic changes, or maybe at least, you know, doing something on their own, which is going to defy all the stereotypical, um, belief systems or the patriarchy, and also the misconception around, you know, the feminism that, you know, it is advocating for equal rights, equal access, equal acceptance. Yeah. That he has both men and women. They're humans. They are equally capable and at all according to all the genders, of course. So I think, um, uh, that's where frameworks like yours, they become really powerful, you know, not as a replacement for systemic change, but as a way to navigate the system we are in while also pushing back against it.

00:23:41 Bianca B. King: Yeah. I mean, because we we can't change anything overnight, right? It's been the slow, monotonous turning of of a of a container ship, if you will, for for women. Right. Just to get to this point now, how can we make sure that collectively as well as individually, individually, that we are really doing the things that we need to do so that we can deploy, deploy our ambition, we can have all the success that that we want, right? We can do all the things that hasn't quite been afforded to us. Um, but if we do it collectively, if we do it in a way that doesn't leave some women behind, then that's when real change starts happening.

00:24:30 Sana: Hmm. Exactly, exactly. And, um, before we wrap up, uh, Bianca, um, and you, you talk about building a business that feels as good on the inside as it looks on the outside. And you know. Absolutely. I love that vision. But then, um, I also wonder, like, is there a risk that we are, um, overindexing on how we feel about our businesses at the expense of results now? Because at the end of the day, we are talking about business. We're talking about entrepreneurship. It has to be profitable. We need money, so it has to generate revenue. So how do you make sure that the pursuit of joy doesn't become an excuse to avoid the uncomfortable, unglamorous work?

00:25:24 Bianca B. King: Right. So from my perspective, it's always about life first. And then you build a business around the life that you want. And most entrepreneurs do it the other way around. We're so focused on trying to build a business that can then support our life when it should be the opposite, right? So if you take that perspective just to begin with, then that's going to just just help you already understand what you need to do. Yes, absolutely. We need prophets. We need runway. We need all the things to make sure that our businesses run successfully. And yes, there it's not all rainbows and enjoy. It isn't isn't. But if you have the right mindset in order to understand what you're trying to build versus getting lost in the wilderness like a lot of entrepreneurs do, you're trying to build a life. Yes, you're trying to build a business, but you're trying to build a life. And if you're building that life, if you're really building that life the way that you want to, then that business should be right there to support it.

00:26:26 Sana: Yeah, I think this is important. Like joy as a foundation, not a feeling that, you know, we chase every single day. And I think that's that's where it cannot be just black and white. It there is a nuance here. Um, superb. Uh, Bianca. So as we, come to the end of the conversation. Of course. I have to ask you if our listeners, I'm very sure they'll have their own experiences. They would like to share their thoughts and opinions. They would like to connect with you, of course, explore more around the Joyful Ambition framework, the five A's. So if they would like to connect with you, what will be the easiest way?

00:27:06 Bianca B. King: The easiest way would be to find me on LinkedIn. I am the only Bianca King talking about joyful ambition, but also to for your listeners, if they want to kind of understand if they have any type of gaps in their business. I created a free assessment called elevation and they can absolutely take it. There's no sales calls, there's nothing. It's just a tool that I created that has helped me grow my revenue significantly. Uh, and as well as the women in my community. And you can find that at pretty damn ambitious com forward slash. And then I'll make sure you have the link for the show notes as well.

00:27:44 Sana: Absolutely, yes. I'm going to have all the links in there. Let's just find them attached along with this episode on whichever platform you're listening to this podcast right now. And, um, I feel this has been such a rich conversation, listeners, you know, like, we have barely scratched the surface here. Um, and I know you all are going to want more, so yeah, go ahead, check out Pretty Damn Ambitious. Check out all the resources Bianca is sharing. Feel free to connect with her. And if you are listening and something in this maybe one part of the conversation resonated with you, or if it made you feel uncomfortable. Honestly, I want to hear about it because I think that this comfort is often where the growth lives. And here's what I'm taking today, listeners, is ambition and joy and not opposites. They might be the most powerful combination. We're not talking about enough. And hustle culture didn't just lie to us about what success requires. It lied to us about what we deserve. So with that, wherever you are in your business journey, I hope this episode reminded you that you get to define what success looks like, just as Bianca did. So thank you so much! This was such a powerful conversation. Thank you for being open and, uh, really, really loved your answers. Loved your insights.

00:29:14 Bianca B. King: Thank you Sana, it was a pleasure being here.

00:29:18 Sana: And thank you to listeners for tuning in to this blend. If you loved this episode, share it with another ambitious woman who needs to hear it. And if you want to keep this conversation going, find us on all our social media handles you'll get in the episode description on all of the platforms. And until next time, keep blending business with intention. This is your host signing off. Thank you.