Bayan on Demand offers a growing library of courses taught by highly regarded scholars and practitioners. Designed for masjid board members, school administrators, imams, chaplains, youth workers, parents, and more. With classes on Islamic theology, adolescent development, non profit management, and the history of Islam in America and more. Bayan on Demand provides accessible knowledge for just 10 a month. Join our growing community of learners today and support the work of Bayan Islamic Graduate School and the Muhammad Ali Scholarship. Go to bayanonline. org, that's B A Y A N online. org to get more information. Assalamu alaikum. May the peace that only God can give be upon you. Welcome to the American Muslim Podcast presented by. I'm your host, Imam Tariq Al Amin. It is my pleasure each week to bring you conversations with men and women from across the country who use their talents and abilities in service of their communities and humanity. From scholars and educators to imams, chaplains, and non profit leaders, those who are working in the public space and the private, this podcast highlights their service, their journeys, and how their stories contribute to the rich narrative of what it means to be Muslim in America. Our guest this week is Imam Bilal Elsakka. He currently serves as the Director of Development for Esan Foundation for West Africa. He's the Director of Youth Programs for REDA, Refugee Enrichment and Development Association, and he's a MA in Islamic Education student at Bayan, as well as a seminary student at the Majlis. I think we've already established that our brother Imam is a busy brother. And that makes me all the more appreciative of him taking the time out to have this conversation. So, without any further delay, let's get into this week's conversation with Imam Elsakka, As Salaamu Alaikum Imam Bilal Elsakka, how are you? How are you doing? I am doing well. Uh, it's always a pleasure. Um, I'm going to let the listening audience in on a little secret, and that is we've done this already. But you have been very gracious with your time, and because of some technical difficulties, agreed to come back on so we could have this conversation again. And hopefully, lightning strikes twice, because we had such a great conversation.

Alhamdulillah, it was so nice we decided to do it twice. Right, right, right. Alhamdulillah.

Where should we start? We like to give, as we state at the beginning of the program, one of our goals here is to share the stories of the men and women associated with Bayan Islamic Graduate School and how they serve their communities in a myriad of ways. But more importantly, to dive into how they got where they are. Where did it all

start for you?

Bismillah ar

Rahman ar Rahim I say it jokingly, but also not so jokingly. It started in the womb. Meaning there's so much credit that goes back to my mom. Super brief background. Mom grew up Christian and accepted Islam in her 20s. She has been serving the Muslim community literally since before I was born. Whether as a volunteer, Or employment, whatever it may be, there, there has been some role that she has consistently had in the Muslim community for nearly 40 years now. SubhanAllah.

Hmm. MashaAllah.

Growing up, we know these slogans or catchphrases of actions speak louder than words. Actions were to serve the community. Her example was to value the community, not just in theory, but especially in practice. So she's been Connected to one, her niche was Islamic schools and within serving one Islamic school or another, she has worked at the front desk as a homeroom teacher in the library and as a substitute teacher. So when I looked back, played a significant role in the molding and shaping of what I saw to be important without even realizing it, I don't even know if she realized it. She was just doing what she felt was right and necessary, and I find myself years later, the specific program that I'm doing at Bayonne is the Master's in Islamic Education.

Okay.

So it's a very niche area of focus. I also look back and my first job after my undergrad in communications at San Jose State was to teach at the Islamic school that I attended growing up. When attending that school, she was my homeroom teacher in second grade. This was when we had the, the hafiz program going at that time. So I have to give a lot of credit. Back to her, even her working in the library at the Islamic school after I finished school and she had some work to get to, I would hang out in the library. There was this norm of valuing books, knowledge, students, and teachers regarding learning in general, especially sacred learning. There was always a sense of, of support and validation from her part. We each know that a lot of the time at the dinner table in many Muslim families, if there's a kid at whatever age. If they mentioned to their parents, when I grow up, I want to be any man. When I grow up a lot of the time internally, it gets shut down. No, no, no, no, no. You're not allowed to do that. That's for someone else. You see, you're intelligent, so you need to go into medicine or engineering. What kind of message does that send to the kid?

Right.

Real intelligence goes here. This imam ing stuff and serving the community and teaching and anything other than with all due respect to the doctors and engineers, God bless them. There are many sincere doctors and engineers in the Muslim community. But there has to be an understanding. Not everyone is cut out for those roles. When, uh, when it started with part time work, when I was 19, serving a local Muslim non profit. There was support and a green light as opposed to red tape. It evolved from there. First, it was Hidayah Foundation. May Allah bless them. They do a lot of good work, especially in Pakistan. From there, I transitioned to serving as the Dawah Coordinator at a local masjid, MCA, one of the bigger masjids in North America. After doing that for a few months, I transitioned to serving as the youth coordinator. When I graduated college, I taught at Granada Islamic School. And then a year later, a local community reached out and said, Hey, we're looking for an imam who can also relate to the youth. So Allah facilitated things one after another. And I look back and sometimes I wonder how in the world did I end up where I am? Alhamdulillah. Alhamdulillah.

you talk about education almost as an ambience or an atmosphere, the appreciation, just, just having it enveloping you. I hear people, I'll use ballplayers, for example, they talk about how that's their fortress of solitude. That's their happy place, their calm place, the place that they want to be when things are difficult. They want to be on the court. Did you find yourself feeling similarly about educational spaces that give you a sense of, of comfort and peace?

Yeah. Yeah. That I appreciate the framing ballplayers. You know, we've had conversations about hoops in the past. Ballplayer can refer to different sports, but. We're probably thinking of basketball. That's right, that's right. Um, yeah, I would say so. Just the sense of comfort, being familiar with the environment, the atmosphere, and enjoying it. I love working with youth. I've been working with youth now for 15 years, maybe longer, I've lost track of my life except the time and effort from any and all of us. Amen. Through doing, you realize different things that you enjoy, different things that you like and appreciate. Different elements related to education, whether it was learning more about the Qur'an, whether it was trying to benefit from the weekly Jumma Khutba. There was that sense of familiarity. And, you know, time is a funny thing. Time just feels different. When you enjoy what you're doing, when you love what you're doing, really working with youth, different levels of youth, different ages of youth. There's something special about the different age ranges. So if it's ages eight, nine, and 10, that's a certain demographic. There are certain things I love about that age group. Now, I primarily work with youth in middle school and high school at Ridla. Uh, Ridla is one of the nonprofits that I work for. There I work with refugee youth in the Sacramento area and every week we have these discussions. They have good questions. They have good reflections. There are different projects that we work on. I really feel like they end up teaching me more than I end up teaching them, not even through their words necessarily, but it could be through their manners because these are refugee youth physically. They may be minors, but when it comes to life experience, they're basically adults a lot of that side.

Cause they've had to put responsibility on their shoulders or have had it thrust onto them.

And to see these youth go up against all odds and really excelling in school, in spite of being resettled in often difficult neighborhoods, they may not have access to an abundance of resources, but you find them pushing themselves and being dedicated and just being around people like that. It does have. So, Alhamdulillah, I enjoy the time that I get to spend with them every week, Alhamdulillah.

That's a special type of work. I certainly relate to it. My wife and I, we, we ran an Islamic weekend school for about five years. And some of the most rewarding work that I've had the blessing to be a part of. And I wonder, though, do you feel like there's a shelf life? I think it's important to keep that association, right? Being around young people keeps you vibrant, keeps your eyes open. But at the same time, do you think there's a point where, even though you look 20, there'll come a point where you feel like maybe there's a distance that has crept up? Do you feel like that's something that really doesn't apply? Depending upon the way that you engage that work,

are you asking regarding me personally or in general,

in general,

I think there's a spectrum and I think it's important for that. The fact that there is a spectrum, in my opinion, when it comes to whether it's the shelf life or how long can someone really do these types of things? Well, it varies for some people, their capacity may be a year. It may be part of a year, maybe a few years. And that's okay. It's not a bad thing. If someone evolves, it's not a bad thing. If a program evolves, hopefully all of these things evolve for the better. There can be a shelf life. Sometimes there may not be. I think it varies. There are so many different variables to consider. If someone is running a weekend school with their spouse, and on top of that, they have three or four kids together. And that's their main intention for doing it. And then on top of that, they each have full time work outside of that. Eventually it's going to catch up with them. Just realistically speaking, eventually their kids are going to become too old for that program. If they keep it to a specific age range and it remains cemented, or maybe they just decide to evolve their time and efforts based on the ages of their children, I think that's fine. There's no right or wrong answer. It, it depends from person to person. On my end, I used to have, I would say, a lot more love and interest when it came to teaching younger kids.

Mm hmm.

And then over time, I've started to gravitate more towards appreciating the in depth conversations with older youth, the existential questions with high school students. I've noticed that everyone is different. I know some people, they've been teaching third grade in an Islamic school for many years.

Mm hmm. Yeah.

And they love it. That's their niche and they polish it. Alhamdulillah. I think it's to each their own. What are your thoughts? Let me turn it back in your direction.

Well, I felt like you were peeking at my book with the example that you gave. Almost 80 percent of that was like my circumstance. My wife and I started the weekend school along with four other committed educators, because our children, we, we, we didn't really feel like they had access. We wanted to make sure it wasn't just rote memorization, but also culturally responsive. That was an important element for us. So we engaged on this. I was blessed to be around all of these educators. And, you know, we did that for five years. And unfortunately, I had to tap out because I was selected. I became the Imam of the Masjid and didn't have the bandwidth to continue doing that. it became, ok we have to look at The broader picture, I've continued to enjoy working with young people, but life circumstances have kind of pushed me, you know, on a personal note, I agree with you, like the way that you laid it out, but have pushed me in a different direction where I can't focus on just one demographic. That I'm responsible for looking at the entirety of the community. So, so yeah, I, I agree. Some folks, that's just their passion. And they will always be in that third grade classroom, happy and energetic. Some folks burn out. But I think the burnout is not necessarily for Islamic schools. I'm thinking just about education writ large. I think often when you do not have structures that support educators. And support the actual acquisition of knowledge and character development holistically, then you will find people who feel like they're Sisyphus pushing the boulder up the hill. I don't get there, I can't get there, I don't have the support. And that can contribute to some of the burnout that I see. So, I agree with you, I agree with your assessment. It did resonate with me how your life's circumstances can change your perspective on things.

Allah has the most beautiful names, so call upon him by them. One of Allah's names is Al Hadi. Allah is the guide. Maybe Allah is just guiding us through different parts of our journey. And maybe that's what he wants from us during that time. What does Allah want from me? I think it's an important question for people to reflect on in many different ways. Let's say there's someone Looking to get married. One of the main questions that should be on their mind. What does Allah want from me? And if I do that, maybe it can facilitate this situation that I'm asking Allah for.

Right.

That's just one example, but it can apply to any arena of life. And I'm gonna give you your flowers. When it comes to imaming. It's a massive, invisible mountain on the shoulders of the imam and the imam's family. It's a big responsibility. There are many challenges that come with it. There's so much responsibility that's unseen. People don't realize. People think, oh, the imam does A, B, and C. No, no, no, imam does A through Z and that's just the English alphabet. Having served in that type of role for about a decade, it's no joke. So may Allah bless you and your family. And

you and yours, because I must say that, that that's, that's spoken. Those are words spoken from experience. Yeah,

that is from one heart to another.

So you talked about how your mother really was the example for you in terms of what it meant to be of service and how you just feel like a natural thing. And I believe you and I share this. And in common, my mother gave me very similar example. She taught at the Sister Clara Muhammad School, where I went. She was the head of the local school council at my younger sister's school when she got to school. Been teaching in schools for over 40 years. That example, it's powerful. Was there a point where You ran from that? And if so, how was it reconciled?

What a question. I would break it down into two parts. One is the before, and then two is the during. So before, doors were opened in connection with teaching at an Islamic school, serving as an imam, and other roles along the way. If his teaching In an afterschool program and other roles, my law except all the time and effort from all of us, from my perspective, that wasn't plan a, it had nothing to do with, Oh, I don't see it as something worthy of respect or no, I definitely, I, I was raised in a way where there has to be the utmost respect for religious leadership, for scholarship, for knowledge, for teachers, when it came to what I saw myself doing, my initial intention During college was because I was born and raised in Santa Clara, San Jose, which is commonly referred to as Silicon Valley. So my initial intention was, okay, study communications for an undergraduate degree. And then when it came to internships. I'll look to intern at any one of the million companies in Silicon Valley. And Allah facilitated things where, Alhamdulillah, my grades were okay. I knew several people in different companies that had good positions. But when it came to internships, There was this invisible brick wall just things were not opening up during that time frame one of my mentors Who was on several different boards including the masjid including care including like God knows How many at the time he reached out to me? And said, Hey, we're looking for someone for this position. Would you be interested? So I prayed Istikhara and I got to do something. So I'm knocking on this door and it's not opening this door, not on my door. And okay, Bismillah. That was a step in that direction when it came to work. It wasn't something that I was actively pursuing, but it ended up being something that was actively pursuing me. And I say that with humility, I say that with the understanding that it's a big responsibility. Once things started to become clear that maybe this is something Allah wants from me, let me take a step back and reflect and assess things. So there was the intention of realigning and readjusting. If this is what Allah wants for me, then I don't really have a choice. Sometimes Allah gives you a choice and sometimes Allah doesn't give you a choice in certain things. It seemed to be the only way or the primary way at the time, and then along the road, especially when it came to serving as an imam, a month into that role, I was like, forget this, I'm out, because I saw firsthand what it was like to be treated worse than dirt. That's terrible. How real do we want to keep this? Keep it real.

Keep it real. We should have a cry break here. There's a poor imam who's listening and that just, Just broke him down. It's not right. And

actually, along the way, I had seen in my teachers, I had seen how they were treated. unfavorably, how they were treated terribly. You know, we can talk offline for some stories in detail, which I'd rather not share here. But the point in the background, in my mind, part of the idea of I don't want to become an Imam. I don't want to go in because I saw firsthand, for example, after one prayer. Someone just coming at the imam sideways and attacking him over some tiny issue and fit pause. You're a grown man. He's a grown man. Talk to him like a grown man.

Yeah,

even if you disagree, you can communicate respectfully. But there were so many instances in which I saw unfortunate. Sometimes it may have been from community members. Sometimes it may have been from board members who never studied any fit. They took what they were familiar with growing up in whichever part of the world. And then they want to, because in their minds, Oh, if I'm a quote unquote, doctor engineer, then of course I'm the one with real intelligence. So of course, if I am familiar with something different in fit. Of course, I have the right to superimpose that 50 position on the imam, even though they've dedicated 20 plus years and I've dedicated nothing when it comes to actual studying, it's, it's unacceptable. So, yeah. Yeah, so within a month, I was like, man, I'm, I'm, I'm trying to go teach English overseas in one of these gulf countries. So I actually took steps and got certified to teach ESL. That was one of the situations, long story short, when I was trying to run from it.

Mm hmm.

And God grabbed me by the collar gently, but firmly and said, no, you're staying here. And So

there's a couple of things. One, one of the blessings of this platform is that we get to highlight how Muslims are serving here in the United States of America, right? Not abandoning their Muslim ness. Not abandoning, you know, those things that are uniquely and quintessentially American either. So there's a mix, right? There's informing and also educating. So I want to throw this back at you, Imam. And for our non Muslims, for our non Muslim audience, there's some terminology that you've used. I would like for you to Take a moment to educate that part of our, part of our audience. You talked about praying istikara. Just give a, give a brief overview of, of what that is.

May Allah bless you. I ask for parted at forgiveness for, for, for folks for having not initially translated that. The reality is I should have translated that at the time, Jazakallah khair. Istikhara is a prayer seeking guidance from God when I'm making a major decision in life. So the gist of it is there's an actual scripted prayer in Arabic that Muslims will recite, will say. And I always encourage people, whether in Arabic or the transliteration with English letters, to also read it in their mother tongue. Al Fatiha. Whether it's English or any other language so they feel what they're asking God for. Mm hmm It's not just about repeating the sounds but also connecting with the meaning the gist of the prayer is Dear God, you know, and I don't know Regarding this specific matter. Please guide me if it's good for me in this life in the next Bring it closer to me. Bring me closer to it. And if it's bad for me in this life and the next, keep it from me and keep me from it and make me content with whatever you decide. You're leaving it in God's hands while you take action. Applying for jobs for, to get into this school or that program. It could be for marriage, buying a house, any major life decision. It's recommended for someone to make this specific prayer. I love hearing that.

Thank you.

What other terminology did I miss?

You have been on the money. You've been, you've been traveling.

Okay. If I forget, you know, feel free to mention it right away because it's something that I, I generally try to be conscious of. Sometimes we forget. So I would not mind if at any point you interjected and you were like, can you translate the word that you just said?

Praise be to God. So you mentioned this idea of. Asking, what does God want from you? That's the essence of taqwa, having regard, this consciousness of Allah. In the American context, the culture we have is not one where folks are generally framing their decisions through that type of lens. Could you talk a bit about the importance of that, especially as more and more people are being drawn to and interested in understanding Islam? And even if there's nothing Even if they don't become Muslim proper, but to take away this idea of God consciousness or asking what does God want from me? What are your thoughts on it?

That is a very good question. God bless you for mentioning that. I think one of the main things that actually draws people into Islam or back into Islam. Maybe they left for one reason or another. Usually, it has to do with some kind of bitterness, some kind of sourness coming from Muslims, not necessarily Islam itself. I think that connection with God directly, the general, simple, beautiful practice of dhikr, remembrance of God, Islam is so simple, yet so deep and pure and beautiful. I think the product speaks for itself. So people are drawn to this. You know, if someone has a, what the nation of Islam, they, I'm not aware of current circumstances, but back in the time of Malcolm, a lot of you see on him. What was it like delis or bakeries? Oh, yeah.

There were supermarkets that were, of course, the farm. There were the bakeries. I have a pretty good memory. 71st street here in Chicago. Uh, uh, brother Saeed's. He had a, uh, Fish market and but the grocery store was a staple in every community where Muslims were okay, and maybe of other businesses as well

Okay, what would you say is the best kind of pie?

Oh brother? That's come on now First of all are you trying to put me at risk of losing my black Muslim card my bean pie bean pie Hands down.

So next time I come to Chicago, take me to the place. Just let me cover the bean pie. The first time we can negotiate. If there's a spot that sells the best bean pies you've ever had, does anyone ever have to go and force feed them to anyone?

Oh, no,

never.

No,

you'll find people lining up out the door in the cold because. That product speaks for itself. That's right. So now, in this analogy, if we replace the bean pie with Islam, Islam speaks for itself. So people are coming for that taste, that sweetness, that soul food, that nutrition. Now here's the thing. If there's someone working at that supermarket, that deli, that bakery, you name it, outside, swearing at people, I don't care how good the bean pie is you have inside, I'm leaving. You're not getting my business. That's right. That's where a lot of people often find themselves who have left Islam. Usually it's not because of the pie itself. It's because of that person outside who has no manners and doesn't know how to treat people. If you have a business and you have customers, I don't care how the customer looks. I don't care how you're here for this product. I hope you enjoy it. Um, anyways, we got to bring it full circle. You were asking, forgive me and my tangents. You were asking, uh, something related to, uh, Lord help me.

The idea of asking, what does God want from me?

Yes. Thank you.

Right.

May Allah bless your brain cells. The three that I have left are struggling.

It's like a broke clock is right twice a day.

Okay, so I can read between the lines. What you're telling me is, Bilal, you have two brain cells.

I'm talking about mine.

Alhamdulillah. The sweetness of that bean pie of Islam is what brings people to it. And most of that sweetness is found in the dhikr remembrance of Allah. So when it comes to acknowledging and realizing that God is Haqq. God is real. God is the truth. Therefore, let me lean on him and his guidance and his favor and God is always listening. One of the worst things that people may preach from the podium, from the pulpit, You are so sinful. God will never forgive you. Which God are you talking about? That's not my God in the Quran.

That's right.

So even if there's a Muslim preacher on the pulpit giving that message, Directly or indirectly, that problem is within them. I say that because God is always listening. God is As Sameer, going back to his names. God is Al Ghafoor, the most forgiving. Al Ghafir, Al Ghaffar. Out of all of the names that we know of Allah, of God, um, highest number of names that have to do with one specific topic is forgiveness. All three of these have to do with God's forgiveness, God's perpetual forgiveness, God forgiving the big things and the small things. There has to be this sense of hope and redemption. Islam is a deen of hope and redemption and love and kindness and mercy and generosity like sharing bean pies with each other. The sweetness of Islam speaks for itself, oftentimes, when it comes to us as Muslims, sometimes even when it comes to the importance of the role of the imam. There are like 20 different hats that you got to wear. And that's just within a 10 minute timeframe. Sometimes it's not just about encouraging people to come closer to God. A part of it is also about, dear God, don't let me be a barrier between this person and you. Don't let me get in the way of this person wanting to come closer to your messenger. Either help me to facilitate something good, or maybe I need to get out of the way and just leave it be.

Let me ask you, first of all, I love that. I love. Hearing that as a reminder for myself, and I think that is so important. What I'm speaking about is, O Allah O God, do not let me be a barrier between somebody else and you, and I think it hits even harder for those who are in leadership positions because. You can kind of have this de facto assumption, I'm doing good stuff, you know, that I've got good intentions without thinking about, you know, a lot of judges just according to our intentions, of course, but our good intentions don't always manifest as good for other people. So I think to be critical,

say it again,

Our good intentions don't always manifest as good for others. It is important for us to have that level of humility. And to be critical of ourselves, I appreciate you saying it. Yes. That's very helpful.

The self awareness. Yes. Self awareness.

Now, there's something that is very much American that's been a part of our historical culture and that is the intersection of faith. And civic engagement, faith and resistance of the over 250 revolts of enslaved folks within the Americas, they were either led by or assisted by Muslims. Many people are not aware of that presence and what Islam meant. When we think about the civil rights movement, we see that the black church in particular was a big part of that mobilization. It was not just about you coming to the church and you get a sermon and you're on your way. It was like, how do we bring our faith into the public square and advocate for our human rights? When it comes to Muslims here in the United States of America, what is your take on the role of the Imam in light of what? Many, and it wasn't just the, the pastors, the, you know, the reverence, you know, it was a real team effort. Now, a lot of sisters did not get the recognition they deserved as a part of that, but when it comes to. Imams here in the United States of America, as it relates to civic engagement, do you think that there is a disconnect between that kind of model where faith is intertwined with, or at least expresses itself in a push for justice in the public space?

I think it has to be. I think it absolutely has to be. Islam is not just a religion of mercy. Let me complete the statement. Islam is not just a religion of mercy. It's also a religion of justice. And actually that justice is interlinked with the mercy. It's not one or the other. No, no, no. Within the beauty of the example of Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, you find the justice of Moses and the mercy of Jesus. intertwined. When it comes to political activism, you know, Imam Dawood Waleed in Michigan, he's an Imam and also the executive director of Care Michigan, which focuses on the civil rights of Muslims in this country. When you look at Imam Suhaib Webb, shout out to Imam Suhaib, one of our dear, beloved teachers and mentors. May Allah bless him always. He's at the forefront. And. It's been consistently in his sermons, in his teachings, in his lectures.

Go ahead. Can I, can I interrupt you, Imam? I may have lacked the clarity I intended. Not so much as it's justice being part of the faith but do you think that broadly speaking, this is something that is being. Emulated by the rank and file email. I know your response would probably be anecdotal, but from your perception, do you think that's something that's been engaged across the board?

I think there's a spectrum and I would argue the, uh, correct side of the spectrum would be To be more involved as opposed to less involved, engaging the system as opposed to not, especially when it comes to very, very clear common sense issues. I disagree.

I've never been on that train.

Did. Malcolm have a talk that the ballot or the bullet.

That's right. Yeah.

So what I think I was trying to reference is some living examples. When you look at Imam Dawood Waleed, Imam Suleiman, so on and so forth, there are several that are active and outspoken and involved leading the way in that regard. And I would say that's the right direction.

I want to shift gears a little bit because we do want to shine light on Bayan. You said you're in a niche program, right? You're doing Islamic education. One of the educational offerings that we have is Bayon On Demand. Have you had an opportunity to, to engage with that platform?

That's my initial introduction to Bayon several years ago was through Bayon On Demand and specifically Dr. Sherman Jackson's Recorded course on Islam and black America from slavery to hip hop over the years. I've combed through one of the biggest things people don't realize when it comes to emamming. I use that as a verb. I love them. We should get shirts. Hashtag Imamming, uh, Imam life. There's so much preparation that goes into preparing a short talk that goes into preparing a sermon. That goes into preparing a lecture, a course, a discussion. Preparation is the name of the game. And I'll tie that in with the example you gave of ballplayers. There's so much time that these athletes spend investing in their meals, their bodies, their sleep, and their routines. So if someone says, LeBron, for example, Stephen Curry, Kevin Durant, they make this amount of money. How much time are they putting in? What's their impact? My point is, why did I initially spend time watching that lecture series by Dr. Sherman Jackson, as well as many other series that are on band on demand? Why was I doing it then? Because I needed to tap into as many online, practically accessible resources for the sake of preparation. As well as nutrition, just for myself and growth. So that was my initial introduction to BAYAN. Over time, I learned more about the different degree programs that BAYAN offered and continues to offer. BAYAN has been on my radar for several years before I took the time to apply at the beginning of 2023. I encourage people to check out BAYAN On Demand, to subscribe. With the intention of not just benefiting yourself, learn something yourself, and then bring that benefit to your dinner table, bring that benefit to your masjid, to a halaqah, and so on and so forth. There's so much rich content. It's an unbelievable gem of a resource. I was not paid to say that

the bean pie that I'm going to give it is, that's just all love,

all love. I'm going to let the first round is on me. Inshallah,

you said something there that I think could possibly transform the way people approach knowledge. The pursuit of knowledge is a preparation. The way that you phrased that was really beautiful because. It's not just about you standing up in front of 50 people, 500 people, right? It could be 5, 000. But to think about the regular interactions that we have or the unplanned interactions that we have, maybe that are one on one conversations and preparing for those moments. We don't know when those moments are going to happen, right? To prepare ourselves for those and to see, I may pick up some useful information that I can share with somebody that will. That could alter their trajectory, you know, it could alter their perception. that's a tremendously powerful. Observation and articulation, you looked at it as preparation,

90 percent of it is preparation. And when I say preparation, at some point, maybe we can put our heads together and put together some kind of a masterclass for what it's like for Imams behind the scenes, especially for younger Imams, especially for people who may be thinking of going down that path. Let us give you a glimpse so you can make an educated decision. I'm going to quote Imam Suhaib, who quoted Imam Siraj Wahaj. Thorough, proper preparation for Friday's sermon is 14 to 15 hours. For one sermon, that may be 20 30 minutes. See, people may not realize, and that's if you're giving it the golden standard of what it's due. That's what it would be.

I've heard 40.

I believe it. I'm not surprised by that.

That's generous. That's generous.

There's so, and here's the thing. Why is it worth that amount of time and effort and preparation? A person may think the sermon is 20 minutes, 30 minutes. When you look at the potential impact that it can have, it has to come from the heart of the speaker to reach the hearts of the listeners.

That's right.

So part of the time for that preparation is not just the knowledge and the reading and the listening and the watching. It's also your Quran and your dhikr, right? Because you need to have buoyancy between the mind and the heart. So there's the knowledge, but then there's also how is my heart doing? It's not just about the reading and that's very important. It's a very important component. But also How is my state, my internal spiritual state, how is my had, how is my condition? There may be some rust over here, especially if I want to talk about something, I better be practicing it behind the scenes.

Absolutely.

So when it comes to the 40 hours. It's very possible. And what's the benefit? We've all been there. We attend a khutbah, especially in our youth. And we may still remember one line from that sermon. Years and years later, the potential that platform has is unparalleled. If any Muslim community, if any masjid can lock in and really give proper due to the Friday sermons by investing in them in terms of resources. Time, money, then that's the first and biggest domino. If that's done right, everything else will fall in line, inshallah. Hmm. You're gonna find people wanting to live close to that mosque because they're busy with work and family and life. So that the time they carve out in their week for the masjid oftentimes is Jummah. Right. If that time is beneficial for me, And I appreciate it and I understand it and I like it and it's not just telling me what I want to hear, but sometimes what I need to hear

right

there's a balance between the carrot and the stick. You find people selling their house out in the boonies to buy a smaller place closer to that location because of what it does for them spiritually. If that element in a community space is done right. There's so much gain. There's so much benefit. I

think that's a great way to close out. I would not be surprised if this winds up coming out in tomorrow's football, because there's that preparation that the man undergoes. And then there's also the preparation that the community should be undergoing and that puts you in an optimal space to make the most out of that gym. Cause hearts also have to be ready to receive. I really appreciate it.

There's a beautiful friend. Brother, African American in the Sacramento area, his name happens to be Muhammad El Amin. He used to come to me frequently after my Jumma Khutba, my Friday sermon, and he would say, Imam, you talked about something so specific. It's as if you knew what's going on in my life. I said, what do you mean? He said, you mentioned this exact story and I was just talking to my dad about it yesterday. You mentioned this specific person. Mentioned in the Quran, I was just talking to my friend this morning who has that same name, and it's a unique name. I told him, you get out of Jummah what you put into it, meaning the same exact talk that I gave. Someone else is walking out of here thinking to themselves, man, I didn't get anything out of that. If your heart is open to receive, you're gonna find, if you're sincere, then you're going to find different things happening like that. But that, that credit goes to him. 'cause he showed up with an open heart and an open mind and so he walked away with something. So it has to meet in the middle that Imam does the imam's part, but then the community has to do their part as well.

Alhamdulillah.

We can, we can share stories offline, man. Yeah. Alhamdulillah.

Well, Imam Bilal Elsakka, it has been a pleasure talking to you again. I really appreciate you making the time, your insights that you've shared. May I continue to bless you in all the work that you're doing? All of us. Yeah. Increase you in your capacity so you can do more.

laughing.... All right.

I appreciate it.

If Allah facilitates things and makes things happen, then Allah can make. What is normally difficult easy.

Mm hmm.

I'm very lucky. Absolutely. Thank you If I'm talking I mean for the time and the opportunity All right

family all good things must come to an end for a little while We'll be back next week inshallah with God's permission, and we hope that you will join us then but until then Remember that you can support the work of the an islamic graduate school by becoming a member of the bayan learning community Get yourself a subscription to Bayan On Demand. And while you're at it, get one for a loved one. And get one for that person that you seem to always be at odds with. It just might be the thing that smooths things over. So, 10 a month, bayanonline. org, bayanonline. org. Look forward to seeing you next week. I'm your host, Imam Tariq El- Amin. And until then, assalamu alaykum. May the peace that only God can give be upon you.