Questions are pouring in at an alarming rate, but it's not alarming
>> Steve Palmer: All right, it's that Time again. Lawyer Talk Q & A making it happen. So half dressed here, ty, hanging off, getting ready to go to court, life.
>> Steve Palmer: Is hitting me hard. But guess what? I'm taking Time out to answer the.
>> Steve Palmer: Questions that are pouring in at, I was going to say an alarming rate only because that sounded good, but it's not alarming at all.
>> Steve Palmer: I love it. So if you've got questions, send them in lawyertalkpodcast.com dot. I'm coming in here weekly, folks. That's weekly to answer your questions, and I can barely keep up.
>> Steve Palmer: They keep coming in lawyertalkpodcast.com dot. And guess what?
>> Steve Palmer: We are back, if you haven't noticed.
>> Steve Palmer: Just, uh, we're going to do some breakdowns. Uh, we've got, uh, a little Law School series, we're doing some appellate law.
>> Steve Palmer: I mean, just, it just keeps coming.
>> Steve Palmer: And coming and coming.
>> Steve Palmer: Love bringing you the content.
>> Steve Palmer: So let's get to this week's question.
Columbus city council did pass a law requiring police officers to turn on body cameras
Um, this comes from. John says, hi, guys, please, the podcast is back. Thank you.
>> Steve Palmer: We appreciate that you're still tuning in.
>> Steve Palmer: After the long awaited delay. Uh, we're back, but, uh, John asks.
>> Steve Palmer: Can I ask, are cops always allowed to knowingly have their body cams turned off or is each county different? Such a great question.
>> Steve Palmer: Uh, the answer is, like I always.
>> Steve Palmer: Say, yes, no, and maybe, interestingly enough, right here in Columbus, Ohio, a couple years ago, there was a young man.
>> Steve Palmer: Named, I don't know how young he.
>> Steve Palmer: Was, but there was a gentleman named.
>> Steve Palmer: Andre hill who was shot and killed. I think it was over off a reed road or somewhere in the northern Arlington area. And a police officer was called out or went out and the garage door was open.
>> Steve Palmer: And this cop walked into the garage door and unfortunately saw a guy thought was holding a firearm.
>> Steve Palmer: I think the guy was actually holding a cell phone. Uh, the police officer shot, and I believe the guy was killed, his name was Andre hill.
>> Steve Palmer: That spurred all sorts of controversy about.
>> Steve Palmer: Police, uh, shootings, as you might, uh, as you might, uh, expect. But it also, uh, brought up this idea of body camera footage.
>> Steve Palmer: Uh, there was a house bill, I.
>> Steve Palmer: Think, that was proposed, uh, out in, uh, or in the State of Ohio.
>> Steve Palmer: And that's still pending.
>> Steve Palmer: The house bill was never passed.
>> Steve Palmer: In fact, I can maybe even tell.
>> Steve Palmer: You, uh, where it is. Uh, House Bill 367 is stuck in. House committee has not been approved by.
>> Steve Palmer: Both sides and certainly not sent to the governor yet. But guess what did happen? Columbus city council did pass a law requiring police officers to turn on their body camera footage.
>> Steve Palmer: This is called Andre's law.
>> Steve Palmer: It also requires Columbus police officers to.
>> Steve Palmer: Render first aid after a, uh, shooting.
>> Steve Palmer: Incident or after a use of force.
>> Steve Palmer: Incident where somebody's hurt. Now, you would ask, I mean, wouldn't they render first aid anyway? Well, yes, and most laws are like.
>> Steve Palmer: That, and certainly most laws named after.
>> Steve Palmer: People typically are a little bit redundant. Uh, but yes, Columbus does require this.
>> Steve Palmer: Now, it's not a crime, I don't believe, if the police officers don't turn.
>> Steve Palmer: On their body cams, uh, I think it has something to do more with their collective bargaining and, uh, they can.
>> Steve Palmer: Be suspended and some other consequences as a result.
>> Steve Palmer: But this brings up a greater, uh, a bigger point.
>> Steve Palmer: I've had plenty of cases where there's body camera footage, and if you google.
>> Steve Palmer: On, uh, YouTube, or if those are.
>> Steve Palmer: That might be inconsistent.
>> Steve Palmer: If you look it up on YouTube, you're going to see footage. Uh, and I've got plenty of footage.
>> Steve Palmer: In my office upstairs where you see these police officers sort of looking at.
>> Steve Palmer: Each other like back and forth, and they're on camera and they tap their chest, or they tap the microphone and.
>> Steve Palmer: They'Ll turn it off the microphone and.
>> Steve Palmer: Then have a conversation with each other. Um, having defended many cases like this.
>> Steve Palmer: It sort of stinks.
>> Steve Palmer: And I don't mean it just stinks that they're doing it. It smells of they're doing something improper.
>> Steve Palmer: I've even had cases where police officers.
>> Steve Palmer: Uh, there's a group of police officers, one case I worked on where they.
>> Steve Palmer: Were arresting my client, he was in.
>> Steve Palmer: A field somewhere, and you could see.
>> Steve Palmer: Two or three of the police officers.
>> Steve Palmer: Sort of nodding at each other and coordinating and doing whatever to basically give.
>> Steve Palmer: The high sign, turn off your cameras.
>> Steve Palmer: So we can have a conversation and do things off camera. But then other police officers didn't. And, uh, it was the stuff I.
>> Steve Palmer: Caught or the stuff that was caught.
>> Steve Palmer: On the other police officers cameras that.
>> Steve Palmer: Sort of helped my case.
>> Steve Palmer: So, I mean, look, whether there's a.
>> Steve Palmer: Law that requires police officers to turn.
>> Steve Palmer: Off their, maintain their body cams and or turn them on, or whether, uh, or not, uh, it almost always reeks when they turn it off midstream, uh, if police officers are really going to.
>> Steve Palmer: Be corrupt, I suppose they would just never turn them on, which is why you had this question.
I love body cams. I think they're a great invention
>> Steve Palmer: Now, incidentally, um, uh, when I started practicing law, it was right at the.
>> Steve Palmer: Dawning of the age of dash cams. So police officers and their cruisers have cameras in their dashes. Now, those turn on automatically, so if a police officer hits his visibar lights or her visibar lights pulls you over.
>> Steve Palmer: Um, in theory, the. The recording goes back about two, uh, minutes or so, and, uh, it backdates. So it's always running, and it just captures footage going back. So, like, in a dui stop, I can see if a police officer alleges weaving, uh, swerving outside lines or a wrong turn or something. Uh, you can usually dial back the footage and, uh, see, see if it.
>> Steve Palmer: Captures the alleged violations. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.
>> Steve Palmer: Um, I love body cams. I think they're a great invention. I think it's. I mean, look, um, sunshine, um, is sort of like the best disinfectant for all corruption. And body cams keep people honest. Um, um, and look, that's the one side of it. The other side of it is we've got to also be mindful that police.
>> Steve Palmer: Officers are people, too.
>> Steve Palmer: They say and do things that aren't always, uh, um, uh, uh, you know, stuff you would say during Thanksgiving dinner, or maybe you would at your household. I don't know. But, you know, it's not always, uh, you're capturing people, uh, uh, in a.
>> Steve Palmer: Stressful moment, saying stress, saying things in.
>> Steve Palmer: Under the stress of the moment. So, you know, there's a.
>> Steve Palmer: There's a line you gotta walk.
>> Steve Palmer: You know, I think it captures the footage. I think it's great. But it also, um, when cops say things that is, um, you know, maybe offensive or. So sometimes, uh, we got to take that with a grain of salt because they're under stress. Um, that said, police corruption, police misconduct, improper, uh, procedure, false arrest, all of it.
>> Steve Palmer: Uh, that is good. When we capture that on body cam.
>> Steve Palmer: Footage, I'm all for it. So, again, thank you for the question. I think it's a great one.
>> Steve Palmer: Um, more to come.
>> Steve Palmer: Lawyer Talk, off the record, on the.
>> Steve Palmer: Air, at least until now.