Speaker: 00:00:02

Hi, I'm Leila Ainge, psychologist and researcher.

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Welcome back to Psychologically Speaking, a podcast all about human behaviour, bringing

together fascinating research insights and real life experiences.

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This season, we are exploring goals with listeners like you.

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formulating their goals or resolutions for 2026.

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they'll come together in small groups to share their progress in real time with us and

with peer support.

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I'll also be recording a couple of goal setting focused episodes for you.

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so you can take inspiration from these conversations into your own business, hobbies or

life goals.

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First up, I want you to meet Jen Vaughan.

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I've known Jen for over a decade As a passionate yoga teacher at Namaste Yoga, her work is

this, yoga invitations that combine postures, breath work and relaxation practices.

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She has created a variety of weekly classes with the community.

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online classes, nurturing workshops and community yurt spaces and supported wellness

clinics for new mothers.

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And this has developed a gentle and meditative style of yoga to provide sensorial,

relaxing experiences.

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Jen do you want to start off with just saying a little bit about who you are and what it

is that you do.

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say thank you Leila.

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I am Jen I started off as a pharmacist from my pharmacy degree a long time ago and

realised that it was a little bit

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structured for me, I'm a bit a little bit more creative.

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And so I went into teaching primary, which allowed me to be creative and use that flair

and support people.

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And then when I had my own child, I was training to become a yoga teacher.

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And that allowed me to be creative as well.

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so being a yoga teacher up until COVID,

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and then taking that online.

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It didn't sort of suit I'm better in person, I think.

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So that's something possibly to explore.

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And then looking after my child.

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And then just recently thinking about going back into doing some yoga and exploring that

really.

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So that's kind of my very varied pathway really.

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It's a lovely, Some of my favourite memories of the last decade are in a yoga space with

you because I came to your...

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pregnancy yoga And another one we did a yoga session in a yurt.

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I remember that quite vividly.

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Thank you for that, that's beautiful.

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It's a lovely thing to share and I'm glad you've got happy memories of it.

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Yeah, really happy So in this season of the podcast, I'm inviting people on to talk about

goals or resolutions.

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And the first question I have for you is, are you thinking of a goal or a resolution?

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Are they the same or different to you?

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Just thought I'd explore that a little bit.

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quite interesting off the cuff.

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I would say a goal is something that you wish to manifest in the future and bring that

into the present moment.

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I think of a resolution as something, whether this is right or wrong, almost a hurdle

you've got to overcome, a barrier.

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Maybe they are the same things intrinsically, but sort of something you've got to resolve.

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So almost something in a conflict perhaps to get you over that barrier, whether that's

true or not, I'm not sure.

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But yeah, something, a goal, feels a resolution is more emotional, whereas a goal is a

little bit more concrete.

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So maybe concrete versus abstract, I don't know.

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That's really curious.

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I like that framing.

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resolutions are quite temporal people feel quite strongly about them usually whether they

want to have one or not so what is it for you?

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I find it really hard to separate the two because it's sort of almost like the layers of

an onion aspect of peeling away things.

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almost like the body mind connection, works together doesn't it?

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let's get into it.

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What are your thoughts around what your goal resolution, let's call it hyphenate it, what

your goal resolution for 2026 is, Jen?

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I think, so being completely open and honest, when I first started teaching yoga, I sensed

that I was either very lucky or fortunate in that when I was almost gifted classes, sort

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of like whole classes of people due to people retiring and things like that.

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Whereas when I actually set up little classes and spaces of my own, it was obviously a lot

more tricky.

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And I think that COVID had an impact on what I was doing.

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I would say that I'm not from a business background.

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I am quite creative and so I've not got a great mindset for business as per se.

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And I just want to share.

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with people.

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So I guess that's the sort of resolution side.

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So what I've found trying to go back in now is that I have, you know, beautiful sort of

responses back about the classes and things like that.

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It's more a case of, I guess, the goal of being more...

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How can I put it?

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Concrete about it.

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I'm a bit flowery in terms of, you know, a bit ditzy, a bit Bridget Jones, if you like.

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you know, that creative flair and so that creative flair seems to rub up against the

business side of actually, you know, making it work and finding gaps and being, being...

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Yeah, goal-orientated is a little bit more of challenge, I suppose.

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And yeah, if that makes any sense at all, to be honest.

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So what I'm taking from that is almost the push-pull between the creativeness side and

then perhaps this idea that you need to be something else to make business work and that

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something else is opposite to the creativeness.

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I'm kind of...

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paraphrasing a little bit there from what you said.

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I'd like to explore then what is it that success looks like for you, So we're talking

about your yoga business, is that the main business and that the goal is centered around?

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going to say yes because I could choose many things

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it's a case of, yeah, that being more mindful about the business side really because I

think it is quite, I'm going to say that that's where the resolution comes in because it

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is quite, I find it quite a conflict in terms of the fact that I just want people to be

nurtured.

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and that...

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I'm going to go back to business feels a little bit more masculine.

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I guess it's feminine versus masculine.

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and yeah.

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find this fascinating.

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I've just finished wrapping up some research with a collaborator and we asked women about

their thoughts and making money and there were gendered responses that we expected but I

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don't think we appreciated just how

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gendered language was around achievement and profit for women I wonder if that perhaps

resonates with you?

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I think so, I think for me it definitely feels the opposite end of the spectrum.

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in terms of expectation of feminine characteristics versus you know business and what that

actually is portrayed to be and how you blend the two together successfully so you don't

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feel as if you are fragmented as a person and compartmentalized I think.

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Can you achieve a flow between those two aspects and achieve that balance which still

feels as if you are being your authentic self and I think as a creative person not that

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you feel as if you're getting the right.

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It is to do with balance isn't it in terms of the value of yourself, what you feel happy

to.

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put out there I guess and what you are getting back and I think survival versus thriving I

think is a female it does feel as if you are on the survival side and maybe that comes

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from a bit of you know self-worth as well and what you've been brought up to to be in

society.

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It feels really complex actually, once you actually start speaking about it, it's almost

like you open this big sort of can of worms.

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And for me, I just want to go out and teach and nurture people and have them be, you know,

the better version of themselves when they go out and relax and that kind of thing.

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And so the business side is very...

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different.

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Yeah.

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So it's like, do you achieve your authentic self within, within those two realms?

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Because one side feels very easy and the other side feels like yuck.

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So tell me about the yuck bits, what bits specific, be very specific here, what are we

finding yuck?

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okay so the yuck being put on being put on the spot

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it's quite deep, isn't it?

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I guess it's that maternal giving versus the the yuck is the expectation of remuneration

back and yeah, it's that self-worth, I'm guessing, isn't it?

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I'm quite happy to give, but actually it's the receiving side.

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is that versus...

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versus side so you know that people pleasing versus you know actually come along this is

going to be great and selling yourself I suppose and obviously it is lovely it's a lovely

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thing to do but it is very giving oh so it's the receiving back

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So being paid for a service that you provide rubs up against

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that idea of nurturing, feeling, I think of nurture as a gift and gifts are, you know,

free things in life.

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And there is something around the language used as well, isn't there, that I suppose might

suggest, freeness then when we start to talk about money and being paid

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renumeration, is that the uncomfortable bit?

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I think so on a level.

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because yeah, it's sort of like that giving is free, isn't it?

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And it's sort of like how you expect remuneration back for that.

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I think also I remember hearing someone recently saying about how people will happily

spend money on, I guess I'm talking about self care, people will happily spend money on

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having their nails and hair done and things like that.

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And that's obviously external.

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wellbeing and people will reluctantly spend money on therapy and they'll do it because

they have to if they reach a crisis point but actually on an everyday level it's not

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something that people will spend money on just hearing other people's conversation and I

found that really quite interesting but that's an aside comment I'm just throwing that in

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there as an aside because of what

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you've spoken about in terms of feminine and the masculine.

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So it's almost like nurturing yourself inside versus outside as well, which is a

completely different topic, I think, but I find that quite fascinating.

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getting hair and nails done might give us a boost might make us feel lifts us but not just

that it's the sense of

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community in the chat.

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I get my nails done every fortnight and I really look forward to that 30, 40 minutes of

chat with another person each week.

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And it's such a close bonded relationship because it's been the same nail person for four

or five years, you're making me now consider that...

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That is so similar to the relationship that a yoga or yogi would have with students.

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You know, it's quite a unique relationship where you're giving space each.

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each visit and you're nurturing and yeah we do value things in slightly different ways and

perhaps that is something about how you position that value to people that's the selling

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bit it's the it's part of that outcome isn't it and saying you won't just be nurtured but

here's what you get Jen I wonder if part of the goal

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I'm imagining the yig and the yang of your business being the nurture versus the value and

the payment and bringing those two pieces together to feel more of a whole.

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I'm wondering how we set a goal around that.

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What is it that you want to be changed and what would look different or feel different for

you?

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I think for me, it's...

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I've been analysing myself a little bit and...

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I've been looking at what other people do, I guess, and it's about...

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I guess for me it's quite personal, the nurturing that I give.

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feel that my style has changed over the years and it's actually become more gentle in

response to what I am seeing that people need.

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So it's more slowing down and more meditative.

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But also equally, think it's about, I'm going to pull in a little bit about what you've

mentioned in podcasts before to do with imposter syndrome, because I've realised that a

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lot of the advertising that I put out there is through my words.

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I've not put a lot of sort of pictures of myself out there and in terms of connecting with

people, because I think it's...

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I don't know whether that taps into my own personal ego.

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in terms of branding myself, I suppose.

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I'm quite introverted as a natural person and I think I've appreciated that actually.

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find I don't have obviously an issue with anybody else doing it but I've noticed a

difference between me and how I push myself out there as a creative sort of person and I'm

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not sure that I'm achieving that level of connection.

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And going back to that goal of having

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I guess an authentic.

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presentation of myself to draw in the right people because I think I've had some people

come to my classes before and I think it's taken me a while to notice that then they've

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gone away and I think they've expected it to be more physical and the comments that I get

from my classes are they're very relaxing, they're very nurturing, they're very...

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sort of gentle and always meditative as well.

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So I think that I'm at the point where I'm understanding where I'm coming from myself a

little bit more.

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And so I guess the remuneration comes from that, that authentic marketing of what I'm

actually doing, which has changed over time.

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I love this idea that you are using other people's experiences and how that lands for you

as well to think about your own positioning What is it that is stopping you using your own

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image, for example?

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not going to say that it's to do with that imposter syndrome, that do I actually, you

know, if I put my face to it, I've got to be this certain person that I'm projecting.

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Am I that certain person that I'm projecting?

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I think as a female going through constant change, know, career change in the past, who am

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It's sort of like, am I...

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you know, is this my authentic self?

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And obviously it feels a bit like Madonna where you're reinventing yourself over and over

again.

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you know, we've gone through COVID and we've gone through this and it's just like looking

at other people, they seem so definite about what they are and what they're projecting.

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And when I look at myself, I'm thinking, well, I could be this, I could be that, I could

be this because as a mum as well, you wear so many different hats.

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And I know that sounds ridiculous, but I think that's part...

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part and parcel of it, sort of like, you know, is this, you know, am I projecting that or

is that, you know, is that what people, you know, want?

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Projecting.

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And yeah, people recognising you for that.

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So I guess it is a bit of imposter, imposter syndrome coming in and about...

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you know, this is me projecting this is me.

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Whereas it's almost like, you know, taking the glasses off.

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And it's just like dabbling and being nurturing and then doing all the other roles versus

actually saying, no, this is actually, this is actually me.

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And being confident about, yes, that is the label on the tin, I suppose.

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There's a really curious space, I think, to explore you're a mindful person and you're so

in tune with your body we have this idea of being in ourselves and in our body and that

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introversion that you talk about.

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I wonder if it would be helpful to think about

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projecting outside and almost looking back at yourself at different points in a week.

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perhaps using some meditative space to sit back and visualize yourself teaching, or your

different roles and to really see yourself.

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in those different spaces to build up that accurate authentic image of yourself is that

something that you could see yourself doing?

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think that sounds perfect to actually be an external viewer of self and actually just,

yeah, have a look at the roles that you play and that kind of thing.

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Yeah, that sounds great.

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rather than trying to prove ourselves because imposter experiences would make us think

that I need to present a certain image, I need to demonstrate I am this person.

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It's almost proving you're worth proving your value.

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The flip side to that is me suggesting to you that you interrogate your own thoughts about

that versus trying to prove to other people.

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Perhaps it's, you mentioned the word ego, perhaps it's proving to yourself that this is

who I am.

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I said what's stopping you putting your own image out there and you said well which image?

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Essentially is how you answered that you know, And then my follow-up question to that be,

so why don't you show people, what would stop you showing people the different sides?

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of you or perceived sides of you.

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good question.

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There isn't really any, we're all multifaceted aren't we like diamonds?

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And I think that connection is what I've been seeing with other people.

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You know a little glimpse of this, a little glimpse of that and I think before, if I'm

being honest, before Covid I was actually not too bad at that.

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I think since then and life getting very busy and know undulating in lots of different

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ways is that, and as you get older, I think you become even more multifaceted.

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We pick up lots of strings to our bows.

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I like that idea a lot.

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do.

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so it's, you know, which bits to shine and glint out and, you know, carving that time in

as well.

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think, you know, just touching on that being a female and having so many different roles

and responsibilities is that carving out that time to actually be consistent and

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be, I think consistency is key, and be mindful.

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Why, What does consistency mean for you?

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Routine, guess, in terms of all of the spanners that you get thrown in, you know, as a

mum, you're like, and you know, I need this now desperately.

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And so you drop everything to make that happen.

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And obviously, you at this stage of life, you become more of a chauffeur.

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And so you've got to be that taxi as well.

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And so it's sort of like, you know,

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getting a routine can sometimes mean...

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I guess it comes back to that nurturing aspect as well.

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So some things that I do end up being on the back burner because of my other roles and so

I squeeze in what I'm doing rather than going actually no this is my sacred time and I

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think that's what I mean by consistency is that

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things get thrown at you and so I will be the nurturer and be like right okay yeah you you

you come first and I will squeeze my bits in so yeah

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How do you prioritize your time for you in 2026?

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I think it's a case of putting in more boundaries as people are getting older as well and

saying, actually, no, this is my time now and reclaiming a little bit of that time to

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claim.

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some of who you are back isn't it as well yeah I think as a parent

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How does that look for you?

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How will you do that?

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Definitely having a, you know, when you've got a calendar and you mark it off.

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Very simple.

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and actually having that sacred.

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get.

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So having that time then for yourself exploring what that self looks like, taking time to

step outside of body and use that mindfulness to think about the different roles

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thinking about that being part of the goal for 2026 and resolution is to claim that space,

make that time.

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centre yourself in your own identity rather than perhaps trying to be all things to all

people.

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I think I'm possibly leading little bit there but...

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that being an intention, how do you then, once you've claimed that space how does that

translate into you authentically being you in front of other people?

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a big question and I love it, that's a chunk, you know, a really chunky, chunky question.

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It's clarity isn't it?

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It gives, it's essentially in a nutshell that will enable me to present with clarity.

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I think if I go from a yoga perspective

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and a lotus flower sitting at the bottom of the muddy environment is that you blossom and

bloom in your own time and grow in the right environment and you've got to have that time

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to just sit and be.

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so that you can present whether you are a pink or a white lotus flower with genuine

authenticity.

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tell me about a time when you've set yourself a goal or resolution previously and that's

worked well for you.

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So I can think of many sort of examples but I guess a big one was, you know, a degree and

going through all of the ups and downs of organising and, you know, setting out your

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revision and whatever else you needed to do and all of those kind of things.

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and being dogged with the focus on that to achieve what I needed to achieve at the time.

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And so that's, you know, where you put your goal or your seeds and you focus on them, then

obviously it manifests and it becomes in fruition.

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that's what I would still, you know, teach within yoga as well, really.

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whatever you put your focus on will manifest.

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in your words, what is the focused outcome of all of this intention and change next year?

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What does the focused outcome result in?

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uh from a business point of view, a more refined.

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presentation in the community that reflects who I am so people can judge whether or not

they want to engage.

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And as an extension of that, essentially, that people then purchase what they see and they

get what they thought they were getting and they pay the value for the nurturing they

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receive, which isn't free.

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It makes money,

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Yeah, so the last bit feels uncomfortable to say, but yes, I guess so.

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And you're not alone.

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there.

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I think it's the, you know, it's because it's a nurturing in a way that doesn't give a

physical form, I guess, isn't it?

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When you buy something, you know, like a card or anything for anybody, you've got

something to give, whereas actually what I'm giving is not tangible.

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It's what it is because you know, drip feeds into every aspect of your life.

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So actually, yeah, that's not right, is it?

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But

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in my sense it's a case of you know that it's yeah that business sense is it feels

difficult because of societal thoughts around business I guess as a creative person.

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I think it's really interesting to perhaps explore some of your beliefs around that next

year.

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when I look at the model of business that you have and having experienced that service, I

can still...

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think about the experiences that I have had with your business.

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that hasn't faded.

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actually, your service provides nostalgia, which is such a powerful thing to carry along

with us in life.

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there's some really interesting beliefs, perhaps, that you're holding.

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on to around...

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physicality and I don't think that's unusual in creative businesses I think a lot of

people who are listening to this will completely resonate I don't think you're alone and

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the idea of talking about making a profit

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but the fact that it feels uncomfortable naming it is really important.

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Yeah, thank you for that.

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think, and also thank you for your comment about nostalgia, because that's really

beautiful.

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Because sometimes, I'm sure, in terms of feedback, you get people come and then you don't

know what they've received from it.

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You know, get positive comments, but deep down, it's almost like a shot in the dark

sometimes.

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And so that's really lovely.

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What could you do to capture some of that feedback over time?

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ask people for reviews.

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So I remember that you are very, very good and very positive about leaving reviews for

things and being grateful and people showing gratitude for that kind of thing.

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So yeah, asking people for feedback and reviews.

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I think that, again, it taps into society, doesn't it?

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That we're very good at, as a whole collective, we're good at

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saying when things don't go quite right but actually in terms of showing gratitude for

things if it's all going tickety-boo it tends to be quiet.

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So yeah that's another point.

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So there's perhaps three actions, to the goal.

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as you pointed out, this is both emotional and...

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procedural stuff.

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the procedure of asking for feedback and getting testimonials, letting people know what

they will get in the words of other people.

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Is that social proof from a psychological perspective?

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We talked about the emotion and

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perhaps seeing, stepping back and claiming space and using meditation to see the different

roles, but then taking that a step further and sharing those different sides and you use

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the word diamond, which I loved, know, the different edges and...

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parts of you that make up this whole.

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Is there something that you're thinking that you'd quite like to commit to or try or test

out?

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definitely very happy to test things out.

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think not coming from a business background.

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I think also coming from the sense of self, it's really interesting because it's a lot

more tricky.

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If I was advising someone else, it's always very easy to do, it?

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Whereas to actually be introspective on yourself is a little bit more tricky.

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So I think...

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For me, it's carving out some time to again have a look at what other people are doing and

see what is successful in terms of marketing.

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I think that's the thing really, because when people come along and actually realize what

is on offer, the feedback is very positive.

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Whereas...

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I'm very happy to trial and error things to see what will work and what doesn't work.

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What kinds of people and

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businesses are you thinking you might look towards to get that insight?

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inspiring creatives, other people doing things in a similar way.

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If I'm honest, I think that stopped me for a long time because where I live, there's a lot

of other sort of exercise classes.

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uh And then what I actually realized is because

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being a nurturing person, was also, I don't want to step on other people's toes or be

perceived as taking away business from others.

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yoga is a massive umbrella and there's something in there for everybody for sure.

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And it just got me thinking about, actually, you know, what am I actually offering here?

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And it was through feedback from people because I'm just trying to be who I am.

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And it was through feedback from people that I realized that it was this gentle sort of

meditative, holistic

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sort of vibe rather than it being the more physical side of yoga which I think a lot of

people do think of and as being you know what yoga is and for me yoga is a it's a balance

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coming back to the the beginning of the conversation it is a balance of holistic nature of

breathwork

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which feeds into postures, which is the difference in yoga using the breath.

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But also because the way that I see it is that our lives are so sort of demanding and busy

is that if you come to one of my classes is that I see that as the balance to your

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busyness and to cultivate that.

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that sense of that gentleness, that nurturing, that slowness, peacefulness and relaxation.

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And so I think, you know, to promote that really, especially since sort of COVID and, you

know, mental health and all of those kinds of things, and to be able to almost like set

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your shoes down at the door, the yoga door, if you like, leave your bits and bobs behind

in your mental...

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carrier bags of goodies that we've all got going on and actually use this time to just to

be, you know, with yourself and be present with whatever's going on without a judgmental

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thing.

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And again, it's sort of, you know, being a, it's an invitation to join in.

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not you need to be egotistical and get yourself into this wondrous posture which you know

some people aspire to but I'm you know from my perspective I'm more interested in how it

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how it feels you know what what is this doing for you not what are you doing to yourself

to get yourself in that posture so

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So that's really curious because what I've just been sat...

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listening to is you authentically talking about what people get as a result of being in

your space and attending your yoga service and

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perhaps there's part of the goal action here then is to listen back to this conversation

to build on what you are and pay less attention to what you're not.

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And it sits with that putting yourself out there and that brand that you're discovering,

that's the part of the resolution is kind of reconciling who the different parts of you

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that might feel a little bit disconnected to each other

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Yes, absolutely.

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So I think you've hit the nail on the head there because literally I could talk about it

all day.

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know, until the cows definitely have gone past midnight, I could talk about it.

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It's how to sort of get that across to people.

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yeah, reconciling who I am.

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think that's huge because...

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coming from so many different backgrounds and having to...

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I think everybody, you you put yourself through, like you saying about going to certain

classes and putting yourself through things.

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And I think it is about coming to terms with that peacefulness and being confident that

people will enjoy what you...

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what you naturally feel good at because I think that I've pushed myself through so many

hoops in the past for different reasons and different, you know, proofs and results.

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And I think, you know, the thing is, is that we can do anything when we put our mind to

it.

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And I think to actually work from a place of comfort feels uncomfortable.

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Mmm

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because I've been so used to being uncomfortable in putting myself through roles to

achieve success in an external way.

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It feels again sort of conflictory to actually feel comfortable doing what you're doing.

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because it feels more natural.

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Does that make sense at all?

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I don't know if it does or not.

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I hear you giving yourself permission to be the person you are in the

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geographical area you're in what I hear you say is there are loads of people doing

different things but I'm not that, I'm something different I think this conversation is

347

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very much you saying it out loud and giving yourself permission that that is who you are

and where you need to be.

348

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Yeah, thank you for that.

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It's really interesting what comes up when it's not

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structured.

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I'm giving everybody an

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opportunity to think about whether they're going to start their goal and yours is goal

resolution.

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today or start it in January.

354

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What are your thoughts?

355

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I'm happy to start today.

356

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Absolutely.

357

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So three things from you then in your words, what three things do you want to get started

on?

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359

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claiming some space.

360

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Yep.

361

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And you said that looked like using a calendar and putting boundaries in place.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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asking for some testimonials.

365

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Mm-hmm.

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and uh

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having a look at what other people.

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or doing and how I can.

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change my...

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marketing.

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When you are looking at other people, you said that there were people who were more

aligned, i.e.

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creative, to you and what they're doing with their marketing.

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Might I add in, it would be curious to look at people who were delivering services but not

yoga and see what they're doing.

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as contrast.

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And then just a final nudge, this has come out of the research that I've done with Nikki

on good girl economics.

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We have noted that women do tend to benchmark themselves against other women.

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So if you can find

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other folk who are doing stuff in your area or out of your area to benchmark against that

are not women, that would also be curious and interesting, I think, to pursue.

379

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That's interesting because when I chose to do my training to become a yoga teacher, to

push myself out of my comfort zone is that I actually specifically looked for a male.

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So yeah, so I was trained by a lovely guy, David in Northamptonshire.

381

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So yeah, I specifically looked for alternatives.

382

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That's really interesting.

383

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I love this.

384

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So we have a goal resolution.

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We're starting today and I'm going to catch up with you via email in three, sorry, four

weeks time on the 23rd of October and I'm going to ask you how claiming space has felt and

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shown up.

387

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how asking for testimonials felt and what has happened as a result of that.

388

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And also where you got to exploring how other people are marketing services and what

you've learned from that.

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I will send you an email on the 23rd of November and I'll say we talked about these things

and with these three things that you identified you would start

390

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and we'll see where you're at with those you're at the very early start of formulating

what the goal is.

391

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Would you agree?

392

00:38:08,770 --> 00:38:10,335

That sounds amazing.

393

00:38:10,409 --> 00:38:13,594

I've really, really enjoyed this conversation, Jen.

394

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thank you so much for...

395

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joining me on the experiment

396

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And I just want to say thank you for being you and being authentic.

397

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usually say that's all for today but I have released the next episode with Rebecca Slater

as we explore a big goal she's been holding close for a while.

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Thank you for listening to Psychologically Speaking with me Leila Ainge and a favour I've

set my own goal to double the number of folk who listen to this podcast each week.

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Here's your invitation to share this episode with two friends or contacts

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with the question, what's your goal for 2026?