Well, here we are.

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Big adventures with Brian Dierker.

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I've got Jimmy Grissom

as our featured guest today.

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An old friend of all of ours.

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And, to assist me in interviewing Jimmy.

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We're doing it a little different today.

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I've got Glenn Renk.

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Loved ones know him as L.B..

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And, Jimmy, thanks for taking the time

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out of your busy schedule

to sit down with me today.

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Yes. My hands in with you. Glenn.

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Nice to have you here.

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This is a great opportunity for both Glenn

and I

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to find out everything about you and

so we may as well get started with that.

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I'll go ahead. Yes.

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Maybe I should say I'm mostly here because

I really want to hear Jimmy's story.

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I want to hear the whole thing.

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I don't want to hear an edited version.

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There you go.

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That's fair.

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And you might,

have a few questions that I miss.

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So that's why you're there.

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And that's why I'm here.

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And, Jimmy, I always like to start

this thing from your, birth.

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Can you kind of

tell us about your early years,

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where you were born and where you grew

up, and, you know, that kind of stuff?

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Actually, I was born in the same hospital.

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You were Saint Mary's. Oh, really?

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Down in Phoenix. 1953?

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I think my father and mother

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were driving through

from Arkansas to California.

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He was a fruit picker,

and she decided she was going to have me.

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So he stopped in Phoenix.

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And had. You. And.

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Yeah.

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And so you probably weren't in Phoenix

very long.

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And she grabbed that baby,

and they went on to California.

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Well, how'd that go?

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Yeah, it went to Exeter, California.

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He had a job there.

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I was told.

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Yes. Carpentry.

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She was a bank teller on her way to work

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and was killed by a train.

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Oh, really? Yeah.

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Oh, man two Lee Fogg

crossing a train track in Exeter.

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Oh, crazy.

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And I was supposed to be on my way

to the babysitter with her,

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and I worked out

I had to have my diapers changed

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so I didn't get on the shuttle.

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Oh, wow. With her.

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With her? Yeah.

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Otherwise,

that would have been your demise as well.

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And there wouldn't be no interview.

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We wouldn't be interviewing at all.

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And so you're a baby, and your dad's

all of a sudden a single dad.

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And raising a baby.

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You realize he couldn't

take care of little Jimmy?

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Went back to Arkansas

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and, called up friends of mine.

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And mercy said California.

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That he was in the Navy

with, and asked them,

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would your parents take my little boy?

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And he said, yeah.

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So he drove rode me out on his motorcycle

from Little Rock, Arkansas.

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Wow. Yeah.

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I had tonsillitis.

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It wasn't a good trip.

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It was a did.

You didn't ever cry that your.

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I just remember we stayed at

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places where there were painted women,

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and I thought

we were always stopping at the circuses.

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But it was not a circus. It wasn't.

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It wasn't a circus.

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But all those women loved you, you know?

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Yeah. Little Jimmy, little Jimmy.

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And so, tell us about your,

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your adopted parents, though.

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Oh. The deaths in California

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said they were my foster.

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Foster parents.

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They went through the proper

channels, and, raised me on a dairy farm.

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And, I learned how to get up early

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and milk cows

and didn't like it, but tough.

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And, yeah,

that was my upbringing on a dairy farm.

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Work hard.

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Work hard. But that's a good upbringing.

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I live living on the farm.

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I must have been kind of cool.

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Played with a lot of animals. Yeah.

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You went to high school

and said you went to grade school.

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Did they put you grade school.

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In Merced and. Then moved to.

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Stockton, California for my,

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high school years?

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Yeah, I took a change.

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And, no

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foster parents and spent time in, Yeah.

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Stockton.

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And that's where I,

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met people

that lived up in the foothills.

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And that's how I got interested

in doing river trips.

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Yeah. You're in, Stockton.

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You finished high school, and you just

went straight to river running, or.

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I went to high school.

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Actually went to Lincoln High.

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Go Trojans.

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And, Scotty

Stevens is in the same high school as me.

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Oh, wow.

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I didn't get to know him

until I went to angels camp,

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but, lived in Lodi for several years.

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Great town.

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If you like grapes and wine

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and, then went to, Angels

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and went to Whitewater school and.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And my instructors were, Mike O'Leary

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and, Don Garrett.

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Don Garrett's no longer with us,

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and, Gil Leary still.

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Michael.

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Well, he's

a well known author in these areas,

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and, you know, and I still here,

you know.

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And I was hired

right out of Whitewater School

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for a masters by Liz Hyman's.

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She will take credit for that. Yeah.

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And the credit should be taken.

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So. So you got into River read, and so you

you were running, like, what?

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River's up there. Stanislaus.

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And, that was like the last years

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before they were filling up

New Maloney's reservoir.

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Right?

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Right, right.

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And, so we did the Stanislaus.

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There was another operation in Coloma

for the North Fork of the American.

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Yeah. I didn't spend much time there.

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That was a whole

another group of kids working over there.

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But, we did a lot of the Merced said.

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And then I got into doing the,

I mean, shirts.

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Which is fantastic. River.

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That's

what I've heard. I've never done that.

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To what have you, Glenn,

ever run the pool?

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I mean I never think. Yeah.

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Well let's get a permit

and then I'll lead you down and tell you

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where all the rocks you shouldn't hit.

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I'd love to do that. Yeah, that's

what I've heard.

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It's a heck of a busy little river.

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But I had flood.

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It's ferociously.

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I was on a trip with, Gil Leary.

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Big water.

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Bob and I on the to all me.

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And it came up overnight

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from, like, five 6000 cfs.

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Where Indian Creek,

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Indian Creek Campground on a big bend.

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And, it was raining and I

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went to sleep in a culvert,

a metal culvert,

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pipe, cheap way to

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stay out of the rain.

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And I woke up early in the morning

to get Leary going.

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Jimmy, we got to get up.

The river is rising.

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It rose to 80,000 cfs that day.

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Oh my goodness.

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And there was no way

that we were going to row out.

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So I immediately volunteered

to stay with the boats.

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So he's got to stay and watch him.

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Yeah.

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And, everybody else.

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Big water.

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Bob and I, Bob Meyer,

we stayed with the boats, two boats,

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and then they rode across stream

and hiked out to Groveland.

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Not an easy tour.

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And, big water.

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Bob and I had a champagne

strawberry lunch.

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As we were watching the people, I.

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Go, how long were you guys

watching the boat?

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They left us there for, like, three days.

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Every afternoon I go, okay, Bob,

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you're not coming today,

so we might as well go back to sleep. Or.

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No supervision during that whole time. No.

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I think my question, Glenn, would be,

did you run out of champagne

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and strawberries?

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No, we had beer.

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Okay. Yeah.

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What a relief.

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So before we get too far

along on the boating history,

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there was one point that you said

that you got passed off by

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the band.

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Burdette for high school

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because they thought

you should be in Stockton or what?

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How did that happen? I know.

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As a young adolescent, I became,

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oh, hard to manage.

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It's hard to believe, Yeah.

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Really? Yes. But go ahead.

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If you if you're all right with this.

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Now, I spent some time as a runaway.

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You know, I was told to do things,

and I didn't think it was right.

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So I just took off.

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From the dairy farm, correct? Yeah.

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You know,

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somebody

was close, so I'd always go to you.

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Semitic.

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Great place to run away to when you.

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Yeah, I were 14. 15. Hell, yeah.

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But they were nice folks.

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They were much older than I was

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being 14, 15

and then being in their late 60s.

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Simple as that.

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Be in the Burdette.

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Great people. Yeah. Yes. Right.

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And so,

you were in Stockton for just a few years.

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Yeah.

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And did they pass you off to relatives?

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Yeah. Friends.

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I had, an uncle that were Pentecostal.

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Oh, lovely.

Oh, that was a hard thing to swallow.

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Yeah, that, that that had to have been

a great combination for you.

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Then off you went to live your life. And.

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Yeah, when I.

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Was, when I was 18, I got a letter

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signed from Ronald Reagan,

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the governor of California,

saying I was released

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from the state of California.

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Free man. Yep.

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So, did you run into any issues

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in regards to the draft?

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I. Was in the middle.

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I was in the middle of the numbers.

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I wasn't, you know, really concerned, but

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I had a chance to,

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go to see Vancouver, Canada.

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Oh, yeah.

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And got a write up there.

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Spent quite a bit of time in Stanley Park.

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It's a big park.

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You know.

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Yeah.

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A lot of benches to sleep on then.

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Vancouver, British Columbia. Correct.

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And, so you kind of wrote it out up there

through the Vietnam War?

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No, no.

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I just went and visited

and then realized that,

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you know, being a draft dodger

or whatever, you know, that's easier.

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Yeah.

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So you just came back to the States

and. And.

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Dodged along? Yep.

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A bunch of us were pretty close

to that decision.

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The Canadian decision.

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I identify with that

a little bit, but it'd be tough to,

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you know, it was

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pretty unpopular war

by the time we got around you two.

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Right, Glenn?

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I was 15 in 1972.

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Oh, yeah.

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So I was. Thinking about it,

but not really faced with it.

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Yeah, yeah. You were just, in the right.

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And I, was graduating from high school,

and Nixon pulled out.

260

00:12:44,730 --> 00:12:50,402

Yeah, but I had a pretty low number, so

I was I was like, Nixon was a great guy.

261

00:12:50,402 --> 00:12:53,906

Yeah, yeah, but back to you, Jimmy.

262

00:12:54,273 --> 00:12:54,540

Yeah.

263

00:12:54,540 --> 00:12:58,110

So you ran in these California

rivers for a while,

264

00:12:58,978 --> 00:13:01,881

and were you living in Angels Camp?

265

00:13:01,881 --> 00:13:02,581

Oh, yeah.

266

00:13:02,581 --> 00:13:05,718

George and Pam went great, folks.

267

00:13:06,752 --> 00:13:09,221

Yeah, I lived on the property,

268

00:13:09,221 --> 00:13:12,224

and Pam loved me because I,

269

00:13:12,491 --> 00:13:16,896

nurtured all the old rose bushes

and planted flowers.

270

00:13:16,896 --> 00:13:18,464

And you knew how.

271

00:13:18,464 --> 00:13:21,200

You knew the right one

to get on the good side, right?

272

00:13:23,302 --> 00:13:24,069

How did you get the

273

00:13:24,069 --> 00:13:27,072

idea to go to White Water School

in the first place?

274

00:13:27,139 --> 00:13:29,775

That happened.

I had a good friend of mine.

275

00:13:29,775 --> 00:13:32,011

He lives up north.

276

00:13:32,011 --> 00:13:33,813

Can't,

277

00:13:33,813 --> 00:13:34,947

say his real name.

278

00:13:34,947 --> 00:13:36,982

He to go on. Me too.

279

00:13:36,982 --> 00:13:38,517

But he.

280

00:13:38,517 --> 00:13:39,852

He wrote me a letter and said

281

00:13:39,852 --> 00:13:43,656

that he was working for yours,

and he was having a great time.

282

00:13:43,656 --> 00:13:45,991

And it was a great place to meet women.

283

00:13:45,991 --> 00:13:46,992

Good enough.

284

00:13:46,992 --> 00:13:48,060

And I.

285

00:13:48,060 --> 00:13:49,562

Motivation right there.

286

00:13:49,562 --> 00:13:52,531

Loaded up the panel truck.

287

00:13:53,766 --> 00:13:56,769

And off to Angel's camp I went.

288

00:13:58,037 --> 00:14:01,473

And so you worked for George

for a really long time in California.

289

00:14:01,473 --> 00:14:03,843

And what what

brought you to the Grand Canyon?

290

00:14:03,843 --> 00:14:06,312

I guess I should jump to that.

291

00:14:06,312 --> 00:14:09,715

There was a merger or

292

00:14:09,748 --> 00:14:14,954

there was a company, Henry Fellini's

Whitewater River expeditions, right.

293

00:14:15,721 --> 00:14:19,425

And, they were wanting wanting to sell.

294

00:14:20,392 --> 00:14:21,694

And, the

295

00:14:21,694 --> 00:14:27,433

people that ended up buying

it was investors that had contacted.

296

00:14:27,433 --> 00:14:32,371

So back, I remember in Angels

Camp, Richard Bangs, John used.

297

00:14:33,305 --> 00:14:37,142

And so there was a letter

that went out to all the so guides,

298

00:14:37,309 --> 00:14:41,280

which is, you know, rafting paddle

guides, whatever, saying,

299

00:14:41,947 --> 00:14:44,550

you know, we're going to be managing

300

00:14:44,550 --> 00:14:47,720

a motor rig company in the Grand Canyon.

301

00:14:48,921 --> 00:14:51,190

If anybody's interested, contact us.

302

00:14:51,190 --> 00:14:55,160

And I was jumping up and down saying, me.

303

00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:56,362

Me, me, me.

304

00:14:56,362 --> 00:14:58,998

Now let's jump back a little bit.

305

00:14:58,998 --> 00:15:01,166

You're working for George?

306

00:15:01,166 --> 00:15:04,503

Yep. And, let's talk about your.

307

00:15:04,503 --> 00:15:08,340

Your experience was so back a little bit.

308

00:15:08,340 --> 00:15:10,242

I mean,

309

00:15:10,242 --> 00:15:12,077

because we've got a lot

310

00:15:12,077 --> 00:15:15,180

to cover here, but, it it

we're already working for.

311

00:15:15,180 --> 00:15:16,348

So back. Right.

312

00:15:16,348 --> 00:15:20,252

I was working for yours,

and then started working for.

313

00:15:20,252 --> 00:15:23,255

So back in, the overlaps

314

00:15:23,322 --> 00:15:26,058

turned into a year round employment.

315

00:15:26,058 --> 00:15:28,527

Yeah. And so what were your first gigs?

316

00:15:28,527 --> 00:15:29,194

Was so back.

317

00:15:30,462 --> 00:15:33,098

The Zambezi

318

00:15:33,098 --> 00:15:36,101

in 84,

319

00:15:36,101 --> 00:15:39,104

83 was the expedition,

320

00:15:39,571 --> 00:15:42,808

84 was, Gary Limmer, big water.

321

00:15:42,808 --> 00:15:45,377

Bob, myself,

322

00:15:45,377 --> 00:15:46,712

and I'm not sure.

323

00:15:46,712 --> 00:15:47,379

Oh, yeah.

324

00:15:47,379 --> 00:15:50,382

Rob Pettigrew. Yeah.

325

00:15:51,116 --> 00:15:55,921

And, yeah,

we worked out of the Livingstone Hotel.

326

00:15:56,221 --> 00:15:58,557

In, in on the Zambian side.

327

00:15:58,557 --> 00:16:01,560

Oh, yeah. Zambian side. Yeah.

328

00:16:01,627 --> 00:16:04,730

You go, you go to Zimbabwe side for,

329

00:16:06,231 --> 00:16:07,833

pepper steaks and air

330

00:16:07,833 --> 00:16:10,936

conditioned, hotel rooms and luxury.

331

00:16:11,270 --> 00:16:12,004

Yeah.

332

00:16:12,004 --> 00:16:15,407

Yeah, it was a little rougher over there

than the Zambia side, right?

333

00:16:15,874 --> 00:16:16,175

Yeah.

334

00:16:16,175 --> 00:16:19,812

One Zambia, one nation, one train station.

335

00:16:22,047 --> 00:16:23,949

A great experience I loved it.

336

00:16:23,949 --> 00:16:24,383

How long?

337

00:16:24,383 --> 00:16:27,119

How many years did you work up over there?

338

00:16:27,119 --> 00:16:27,886

You were there.

339

00:16:27,886 --> 00:16:31,757

I did two seasons in 84, 85.

340

00:16:32,491 --> 00:16:33,826

Nice. Yeah.

341

00:16:33,826 --> 00:16:36,662

Then you'd come back, work for George,

342

00:16:36,662 --> 00:16:40,599

back and forth, and then,

Then I started working on the bill.

343

00:16:40,632 --> 00:16:41,667

Bill?

344

00:16:41,667 --> 00:16:42,301

Yeah. Okay.

345

00:16:42,301 --> 00:16:45,304

Greg, I. Did several seasons there.

346

00:16:45,404 --> 00:16:46,805

What a great river that was.

347

00:16:46,805 --> 00:16:49,541

Oh, yeah. Under the tutelage of,

348

00:16:50,509 --> 00:16:53,512

Jim Lumpy.

349

00:16:54,079 --> 00:16:57,082

Jim. Jim lumpy sled, Jim sleigh.

350

00:16:59,051 --> 00:17:00,152

Great bunch of people.

351

00:17:00,152 --> 00:17:03,222

And so big thing and, in my past,

352

00:17:04,490 --> 00:17:07,359

podcasts, I've it's come up

353

00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:11,964

quite a bit including, you know,

the founders of so back and stuff.

354

00:17:11,964 --> 00:17:16,535

I've got a nice interview with that

but actually

355

00:17:16,535 --> 00:17:19,705

I've got quite a few of Richard's books

sitting right here.

356

00:17:19,738 --> 00:17:22,741

Right on Richard's great man.

Yeah. Richard.

357

00:17:22,741 --> 00:17:25,744

Have you include, Bartholomew?

358

00:17:26,078 --> 00:17:27,012

Yes. Yeah.

359

00:17:27,012 --> 00:17:30,416

There's a there's a session

we have with Bert Henderson.

360

00:17:30,416 --> 00:17:30,916

Right.

361

00:17:30,916 --> 00:17:32,251

That's really out.

362

00:17:32,251 --> 00:17:33,952

But, yeah, a lot going on in.

363

00:17:33,952 --> 00:17:37,756

Those guys were really pressing

the envelope as far as exploratory is.

364

00:17:37,790 --> 00:17:40,692

And then they were doing commercials,

and you're right on that.

365

00:17:40,692 --> 00:17:41,160

Oh, yeah.

366

00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:43,028

Right on that timing.

367

00:17:43,028 --> 00:17:46,999

But, the the beer was a special river.

368

00:17:46,999 --> 00:17:52,137

It's, it's unfortunate that all

these rivers you used to run a dam now.

369

00:17:52,137 --> 00:17:55,007

And the bill was one of them, right? Yep.

Yeah.

370

00:17:55,007 --> 00:17:56,708

Dam. Those dams.

371

00:17:56,708 --> 00:17:58,677

Damn, those dams is correct.

372

00:17:58,677 --> 00:18:01,914

So anyway, so you're doing some of these,

373

00:18:03,115 --> 00:18:04,817

gigs with.

374

00:18:04,817 --> 00:18:07,186

So back, you still working for AWS?

375

00:18:07,186 --> 00:18:10,956

And then this thing comes up

for, for, so back

376

00:18:10,956 --> 00:18:15,427

Whitewater and, you know,

I have fond memories of.

377

00:18:15,427 --> 00:18:18,864

So back Whitewater and Brian Mitchell

was there.

378

00:18:18,864 --> 00:18:20,132

And Bob Skinner.

379

00:18:20,132 --> 00:18:23,302

The Skinner boy and a bunch of other guys,

380

00:18:25,437 --> 00:18:27,339

seven inns were involved.

381

00:18:27,339 --> 00:18:29,041

Red Avenue up.

382

00:18:29,041 --> 00:18:32,544

Cleve

Anderson was a good for boy and Cleve.

383

00:18:32,778 --> 00:18:33,846

Yeah.

384

00:18:33,846 --> 00:18:36,281

And, so the,

385

00:18:36,281 --> 00:18:39,585

so back thing went on for a few years.

386

00:18:39,585 --> 00:18:41,887

How long do you work for those guys?

Five years.

387

00:18:41,887 --> 00:18:43,622

I told Whitewater.

388

00:18:43,622 --> 00:18:46,625

I told the investors that I took

on the first trip

389

00:18:47,126 --> 00:18:50,262

not to expect, you know,

390

00:18:51,930 --> 00:18:54,733

big money until this, after five years.

391

00:18:54,733 --> 00:18:57,136

And they sold year five.

392

00:18:57,136 --> 00:19:00,139

Yeah,

they sold their Grand Canyon expeditions.

393

00:19:00,139 --> 00:19:02,975

Yeah. Jim. Correct.

394

00:19:02,975 --> 00:19:05,210

And that was your transition as well.

395

00:19:05,210 --> 00:19:06,278

Even them.

396

00:19:06,278 --> 00:19:09,681

Yeah, I transitioned from them to,

397

00:19:10,415 --> 00:19:12,718

drove over the hill and stopped at hatch.

398

00:19:12,718 --> 00:19:17,055

And as Patty, she had any room

for me the following season

399

00:19:18,157 --> 00:19:19,224

and she told me

400

00:19:19,224 --> 00:19:24,329

that Ted was down in the warehouse

with, Billy and go down

401

00:19:24,329 --> 00:19:27,332

and tell Ted that you just got hired.

402

00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:29,001

That's.

403

00:19:29,001 --> 00:19:29,902

Oh, great.

404

00:19:29,902 --> 00:19:32,671

Great days there with the hat

crowd and stuff.

405

00:19:32,671 --> 00:19:35,307

I do an occasional trip

with those guys, too, but.

406

00:19:35,307 --> 00:19:37,543

Oh, I fit right in. Yeah, you did.

407

00:19:37,543 --> 00:19:40,612

9:00 in the morning

on the way to Lee's Ferry to rig

408

00:19:40,612 --> 00:19:43,615

a whitewater trip, and I told Ted

I was I'd.

409

00:19:43,982 --> 00:19:46,985

He looked over at Billy

and he goes, get this man a beer.

410

00:19:48,854 --> 00:19:50,055

Ted was a good time.

411

00:19:50,055 --> 00:19:51,757

Yeah, that was a good time.

412

00:19:51,757 --> 00:19:52,357

Good time.

413

00:19:52,357 --> 00:19:54,860

Good. Pete

didn't pay much, but he was a good time.

414

00:19:54,860 --> 00:19:57,162

No, I can now.

415

00:19:57,162 --> 00:19:57,896

But what's that?

416

00:19:57,896 --> 00:20:00,899

Pain. Good. Now. Okay, good.

417

00:20:01,433 --> 00:20:03,569

Did you do other countries?

418

00:20:03,569 --> 00:20:04,803

Other rivers was so big.

419

00:20:06,371 --> 00:20:09,374

Got a Phillips and pages.

420

00:20:09,374 --> 00:20:11,243

Well, that's why you're here, Jimmy.

421

00:20:11,243 --> 00:20:12,878

To flip a few pages.

422

00:20:12,878 --> 00:20:15,581

And, flip the feed boats.

423

00:20:15,581 --> 00:20:20,552

Oh, my God, I remember going into,

the office at angels camp and.

424

00:20:20,552 --> 00:20:20,919

John.

425

00:20:20,919 --> 00:20:21,920

Yes, because, Jimmy,

426

00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,824

I got good news and bad news,

and I go, just hit me all at once.

427

00:20:26,692 --> 00:20:31,196

And he goes, well, the good news is

you got a full season on the bill.

428

00:20:31,363 --> 00:20:34,366

The bad news is

they're all in paddle boats.

429

00:20:35,701 --> 00:20:36,535

Okay, Bill.

430

00:20:36,535 --> 00:20:37,803

River for paddle boats.

431

00:20:37,803 --> 00:20:40,706

Oh, yeah. That's a wild river for a van.

432

00:20:40,706 --> 00:20:44,509

I was hanging under the chicken line,

calling commands more than once.

433

00:20:44,643 --> 00:20:47,145

Yeah. No kidding.

434

00:20:47,145 --> 00:20:49,548

I was lucky enough to do the bill myself.

435

00:20:49,548 --> 00:20:51,683

And it's a pretty rowdy river for a.

436

00:20:51,683 --> 00:20:54,253

Yeah, true

paddle boat or any boat, really.

437

00:20:55,420 --> 00:20:58,423

And, So, Bill. Bill

438

00:20:59,057 --> 00:21:02,561

and those are my big, river experiences.

439

00:21:03,862 --> 00:21:06,832

I went to, Bali

440

00:21:06,999 --> 00:21:10,002

to see, Dave Heckman

441

00:21:10,836 --> 00:21:13,605

and, Ken Rudin.

442

00:21:13,605 --> 00:21:18,210

They were there setting up the inn,

which is just a little stream.

443

00:21:18,610 --> 00:21:21,513

It's like a class two river in Bali.

444

00:21:21,513 --> 00:21:24,016

But it was a great experience.

445

00:21:24,016 --> 00:21:25,550

No, I bet it was. What?

446

00:21:25,550 --> 00:21:28,553

Kind of like jungle?

447

00:21:29,421 --> 00:21:30,789

Ravine?

448

00:21:30,789 --> 00:21:31,256

Yeah.

449

00:21:31,256 --> 00:21:34,259

Lots of lots of palm fronds and.

450

00:21:34,326 --> 00:21:36,194

Yeah, vegetation.

451

00:21:36,194 --> 00:21:38,630

We were like, in a little red shanks.

452

00:21:38,630 --> 00:21:39,931

Avon raging.

453

00:21:39,931 --> 00:21:42,934

Hum. Got to be 12ft long.

454

00:21:43,235 --> 00:21:45,003

Yeah. Awesome.

455

00:21:45,003 --> 00:21:48,373

And so,

and then you got involved in Grand Canyon

456

00:21:48,373 --> 00:21:49,875

and really put a lot of time down.

457

00:21:49,875 --> 00:21:52,878

There with Joe

Beck's Whitewater. And then.

458

00:21:52,911 --> 00:21:54,146

And then had the.

459

00:21:54,146 --> 00:21:57,516

Largest boat in the Grand

Canyon was Whitewater.

460

00:21:57,516 --> 00:21:58,917

Bar none, bar none.

461

00:21:58,917 --> 00:22:01,053

That was the biggest, heaviest boat.

462

00:22:01,053 --> 00:22:05,490

Bigger than Canyon

was bigger and western heavier.

463

00:22:06,358 --> 00:22:08,860

Yeah. No, they were something else.

464

00:22:08,860 --> 00:22:12,331

I mean, in in for the for the listener.

465

00:22:12,331 --> 00:22:17,336

A lot of different styles of boats

down there, but generally the as rig

466

00:22:17,903 --> 00:22:22,841

the frames all on the donut

and then the side tubes are free

467

00:22:23,342 --> 00:22:25,877

where whitewater the frames went clear

468

00:22:25,877 --> 00:22:30,148

out over those side tubes

and the side tubes were laminated into.

469

00:22:30,148 --> 00:22:34,720

And so they had a pointed pointy piece in

the front, the pointy piece in the back.

470

00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:35,787

They were. Married.

471

00:22:35,787 --> 00:22:37,622

They were married together.

472

00:22:37,622 --> 00:22:40,192

And so they were, as long as the,

473

00:22:41,259 --> 00:22:42,894

the donut,

474

00:22:42,894 --> 00:22:47,366

meaning they were like 37ft long,

just like the donut.

475

00:22:47,499 --> 00:22:48,333

And the frames.

476

00:22:48,333 --> 00:22:51,136

Of times went clear over everything.

477

00:22:51,136 --> 00:22:53,105

And then they had these huge boxes,

478

00:22:53,105 --> 00:22:56,675

and they were the one company

that ran 40s, 40 Johnsons.

479

00:22:57,042 --> 00:22:59,611

They were hit. Heaven Ridge

or Johnson? Johnson?

480

00:22:59,611 --> 00:23:02,080

No. True. Same company, same company.

481

00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:07,219

But, they were like,

I was lucky enough to run one for that,

482

00:23:08,487 --> 00:23:09,721

little deal I did.

483

00:23:09,721 --> 00:23:16,561

And, it was like being a city manager

more than it was like being a boat.

484

00:23:16,862 --> 00:23:20,932

And I remember having tendonitis

for months after reading that book.

485

00:23:21,366 --> 00:23:23,902

But, yeah, it's phenomenally huge.

486

00:23:23,902 --> 00:23:26,905

But but I remember

487

00:23:27,439 --> 00:23:30,108

you guys were in Fredonia,

488

00:23:30,108 --> 00:23:33,712

and, that was a great warehouse

that you guys had.

489

00:23:33,712 --> 00:23:37,082

And it was a great operation,

really, the Whitewater operation.

490

00:23:37,082 --> 00:23:40,118

And, that was where,

491

00:23:40,619 --> 00:23:43,355

De Noia started, right?

492

00:23:43,355 --> 00:23:44,322

I didn't know either.

493

00:23:44,322 --> 00:23:49,828

And until those guys, started

with, Henry Fellini's whitewater.

494

00:23:50,328 --> 00:23:52,831

But, did you know Henry at all?

495

00:23:52,831 --> 00:23:53,732

Met him once?

496

00:23:53,732 --> 00:23:57,969

Yeah, he was quite,

He was larger than life character.

497

00:23:58,170 --> 00:24:01,072

Correct. Cowboy boots and big.

498

00:24:01,072 --> 00:24:03,675

That you'd see him on the river in cowboy

boots?

499

00:24:03,675 --> 00:24:04,676

Yeah.

500

00:24:04,676 --> 00:24:06,978

Standing on the back

of his gigantic boots.

501

00:24:06,978 --> 00:24:09,581

And it was probably

a big guy, too. He was a big,

502

00:24:10,715 --> 00:24:11,583

fat guard.

503

00:24:11,583 --> 00:24:12,217

Yeah.

504

00:24:12,217 --> 00:24:17,522

And, yeah, he had a certain way

he did things, and it was all overbuilt.

505

00:24:17,522 --> 00:24:21,760

These frames had big pads

on the corners, like,

506

00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,963

you might see on an oil rig or something,

you know?

507

00:24:24,963 --> 00:24:27,098

I mean, everything was heavy.

508

00:24:27,098 --> 00:24:27,933

Yeah.

509

00:24:27,933 --> 00:24:31,136

You know who worked for, Henry

was, Bill collector.

510

00:24:31,169 --> 00:24:33,839

Yeah. Bill Gleicher worked. Yeah,

he was old time.

511

00:24:33,839 --> 00:24:34,573

Yeah.

512

00:24:34,573 --> 00:24:37,576

And build still famed

513

00:24:38,109 --> 00:24:42,881

outfitter here, for the Arizona

River runners and the in Whitewater.

514

00:24:42,881 --> 00:24:47,853

So, yeah, there's a lot of history

with that company and hats as well.

515

00:24:47,853 --> 00:24:49,888

So that's fantastic.

516

00:24:49,888 --> 00:24:54,693

Now, you spent some time in Thailand,

didn't you?

517

00:24:54,826 --> 00:24:59,531

I was there for a year, doing

trekking trips.

518

00:24:59,764 --> 00:25:03,802

And,

so back was one of the many companies

519

00:25:04,836 --> 00:25:07,372

there was world wide in Toronto.

520

00:25:07,372 --> 00:25:10,141

There was a company and

521

00:25:10,141 --> 00:25:12,143

Australia.

522

00:25:12,143 --> 00:25:16,982

And they all collectively got together

and hired me to go over there and,

523

00:25:17,782 --> 00:25:20,051

and buff out,

524

00:25:20,051 --> 00:25:22,120

the operation

525

00:25:22,120 --> 00:25:25,690

so far as, Western Oriental men

526

00:25:25,690 --> 00:25:30,428

don't like to be told what to do

by white American women.

527

00:25:31,997 --> 00:25:33,632

And so that's where I came

528

00:25:33,632 --> 00:25:37,002

in, was, did our iron out the wrinkles.

529

00:25:37,269 --> 00:25:41,306

And they didn't confuse you at all for,

American Woman?

530

00:25:42,274 --> 00:25:45,176

I'm just, you know,

531

00:25:45,176 --> 00:25:48,680

just asking,

what their perception might have been.

532

00:25:48,747 --> 00:25:51,283

No, that was a great experience

for me in Thailand.

533

00:25:51,283 --> 00:25:54,286

I loved it. Love the food.

534

00:25:54,619 --> 00:25:57,422

I wanted to buy a village

and retire there.

535

00:25:57,422 --> 00:26:00,392

Yeah.

536

00:26:01,526 --> 00:26:02,861

By the village.

537

00:26:02,861 --> 00:26:05,063

By a village? Yeah.

538

00:26:05,063 --> 00:26:08,099

But you spent quite a bit of time

in South America, didn't you.

539

00:26:08,667 --> 00:26:12,437

With,

yeah, with the Bobo's, like four seasons?

540

00:26:13,705 --> 00:26:15,340

I remember one time taking a,

541

00:26:15,340 --> 00:26:21,413

vacation

between trips with Bruce Keller.

542

00:26:21,646 --> 00:26:22,380

Yeah, yeah.

543

00:26:22,380 --> 00:26:25,717

And we went down to the end of the Pan-Am

highway.

544

00:26:26,718 --> 00:26:29,721

Oh. I forget the name of the town,

545

00:26:30,155 --> 00:26:34,326

but we, hopped on a ferry

and went up to an island away,

546

00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,196

and that's been,

547

00:26:38,196 --> 00:26:43,068

uninhabited island

since the 15th century by Spaniards.

548

00:26:44,069 --> 00:26:47,072

A lot of a lot of history there.

549

00:26:47,339 --> 00:26:49,841

South America's great

550

00:26:49,841 --> 00:26:52,277

Santiago, I, I was

551

00:26:52,277 --> 00:26:55,280

I fell in love with the schoolteacher

there.

552

00:26:55,647 --> 00:26:58,650

I thought I might end up in Santiago.

553

00:26:58,650 --> 00:27:00,785

Well, Santiago was a pretty wild city.

554

00:27:00,785 --> 00:27:01,386

I mean.

555

00:27:01,386 --> 00:27:03,922

It's a great town. It's cosmopolitan.

556

00:27:03,922 --> 00:27:07,258

Well, and the, train station there,

557

00:27:07,258 --> 00:27:10,261

a lot of people don't realize was built by

Eiffel.

558

00:27:10,261 --> 00:27:12,497

Was the design the Eiffel.

559

00:27:12,497 --> 00:27:14,599

Tower tower over.

560

00:27:14,599 --> 00:27:18,003

But the taxis in, Santiago impressed me.

561

00:27:18,003 --> 00:27:19,371

Their full contact.

562

00:27:20,605 --> 00:27:22,941

You know,

like, if a guy's trying to change lanes,

563

00:27:22,941 --> 00:27:26,311

he'll just get over next to the other one

and push him over with his car.

564

00:27:26,311 --> 00:27:27,646

It's called trade and paint.

565

00:27:27,646 --> 00:27:28,947

I was NASCAR.

566

00:27:28,947 --> 00:27:31,383

Yeah, that's right. Trading made.

567

00:27:31,383 --> 00:27:32,884

But terrifying.

568

00:27:32,884 --> 00:27:35,520

Taxi cab rides.

569

00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,556

That everybody should go to Santiago

and. And.

570

00:27:38,690 --> 00:27:39,457

Hail a cab.

571

00:27:39,457 --> 00:27:44,496

There's a great restaurant there

that I will, you know, give kudos to.

572

00:27:44,496 --> 00:27:47,499

It's called assassins. Oh, wow. Yeah.

573

00:27:47,499 --> 00:27:48,433

What a name.

574

00:27:48,433 --> 00:27:52,370

And, everybody has signed

their name on the walls,

575

00:27:53,438 --> 00:27:55,407

so if you can find a little open

576

00:27:55,407 --> 00:27:58,643

space, go to assassins.

577

00:27:58,643 --> 00:27:59,611

Assassins?

578

00:27:59,611 --> 00:28:00,445

And what's that?

579

00:28:00,445 --> 00:28:03,715

Elegant old hotel that's so back.

580

00:28:03,748 --> 00:28:04,683

Used to.

581

00:28:04,683 --> 00:28:06,651

That I ran rampant, and.

582

00:28:06,651 --> 00:28:08,820

Yeah, that that would be the hotel.

583

00:28:08,820 --> 00:28:11,256

The five star hotel career.

584

00:28:11,256 --> 00:28:12,157

That career.

585

00:28:12,157 --> 00:28:15,794

Oh, that was a really nice bar and hotel.

586

00:28:15,794 --> 00:28:20,365

And even during the days of Pinochet,

there was an elegant.

587

00:28:20,398 --> 00:28:21,166

Yeah, that's right.

588

00:28:21,166 --> 00:28:25,370

In that area where the Air Force flew down

the main street and the,

589

00:28:25,370 --> 00:28:27,739

the the big old building. The big. Square.

590

00:28:27,739 --> 00:28:28,740

Yeah, yeah.

591

00:28:28,740 --> 00:28:32,744

And I told people I'd be walking down

the streets of Santiago and

592

00:28:33,645 --> 00:28:38,116

and you'd hear these,

people yelling, will not go, will not go.

593

00:28:38,850 --> 00:28:44,255

And if you heard that, you'd run into

a, doorway to avoid the water cannons.

594

00:28:44,823 --> 00:28:46,991

Yeah, because there's llamas.

595

00:28:46,991 --> 00:28:50,562

There's one tacos and one other specie.

596

00:28:50,862 --> 00:28:51,830

Yeah.

597

00:28:51,830 --> 00:28:54,933

So anarcho is the term for water cannons.

598

00:28:55,500 --> 00:28:58,236

Wow. It wasn't a great time, but.

599

00:28:58,236 --> 00:29:02,006

Now they've they've had their share of,

strife in that city.

600

00:29:02,006 --> 00:29:07,679

And there's scars in the city of,

about that, past regimes and stuff.

601

00:29:07,712 --> 00:29:09,080

Oh. Interesting history.

602

00:29:10,281 --> 00:29:12,383

They make great pisco.

603

00:29:12,383 --> 00:29:12,650

Yeah.

604

00:29:12,650 --> 00:29:17,589

The pisco pisco sours every afternoon

when I go to visit.

605

00:29:17,589 --> 00:29:19,824

Well.

606

00:29:19,824 --> 00:29:22,393

In Picone. Yeah.

607

00:29:22,393 --> 00:29:24,829

By and by. Yeah.

608

00:29:24,829 --> 00:29:28,767

Worked, for out away altitude.

609

00:29:28,967 --> 00:29:29,567

Yeah.

610

00:29:29,567 --> 00:29:32,237

Yeah. And, well,

I would always go out the way.

611

00:29:32,237 --> 00:29:33,571

Out the way.

612

00:29:33,571 --> 00:29:35,440

Get out of the way.

613

00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,009

And he's spent a lot of time down there.

614

00:29:38,009 --> 00:29:38,977

Yeah.

615

00:29:38,977 --> 00:29:42,981

And that was my vacation

between trips was to go visit him.

616

00:29:43,047 --> 00:29:45,049

Yeah. Gone.

617

00:29:45,049 --> 00:29:48,052

And we would walk down

the streets of Picone

618

00:29:48,386 --> 00:29:51,389

in the middle of the,

4:00 in the afternoon.

619

00:29:51,422 --> 00:29:54,692

If you weren't doing a river trip,

that was when you start to get going

620

00:29:55,593 --> 00:29:58,730

and people would be yelling,

buying, buying.

621

00:29:59,230 --> 00:30:00,331

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

622

00:30:00,331 --> 00:30:03,935

He had a reputation down there

and famous, famous stories.

623

00:30:03,935 --> 00:30:06,337

About he cut a wide swath. Yeah.

624

00:30:06,337 --> 00:30:12,110

And that was during the time that,

Jim Slade nicknamed me El Tiburon.

625

00:30:13,111 --> 00:30:15,413

Me gusta, Nadar.

626

00:30:15,413 --> 00:30:18,416

I like to swim.

627

00:30:19,584 --> 00:30:21,152

From the bayou.

628

00:30:21,152 --> 00:30:26,391

And so you ran with Stan board down there

and little white Henderson a little bit.

629

00:30:26,391 --> 00:30:27,592

Bart. Royale.

630

00:30:27,592 --> 00:30:29,294

And Bruce was down there.

631

00:30:29,294 --> 00:30:30,328

A little big. Fella.

632

00:30:30,328 --> 00:30:33,264

Yeah. And, Mark Jansen.

633

00:30:33,264 --> 00:30:36,000

Michael speaks. Michael speaks? Yeah.

634

00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,503

That was quite the crew down there. Oh,

yeah?

635

00:30:38,503 --> 00:30:39,270

Yeah.

636

00:30:39,270 --> 00:30:42,273

John French. Frenchy. Yeah.

637

00:30:42,373 --> 00:30:45,243

So I want to talk about something else.

638

00:30:45,243 --> 00:30:46,377

Off the river.

639

00:30:46,377 --> 00:30:49,247

Off the river

640

00:30:49,247 --> 00:30:50,148

conversation.

641

00:30:50,148 --> 00:30:54,586

We can get back to that, but,

I want to talk about a whole street term.

642

00:30:55,954 --> 00:30:57,522

Okay?

643

00:30:57,522 --> 00:31:00,024

There's many facets. Well, you're.

644

00:31:00,024 --> 00:31:03,027

Really a talented,

645

00:31:03,294 --> 00:31:05,897

guy with a sewing machine

and heavy fabric.

646

00:31:05,897 --> 00:31:08,533

How did you get

into the upholstery thing?

647

00:31:08,533 --> 00:31:13,171

And it's a good story

because, you had a mentor, as I recall.

648

00:31:13,538 --> 00:31:16,541

Can you share that story with us,

Richard key?

649

00:31:16,574 --> 00:31:18,309

Yeah. His name's Dickey,

650

00:31:19,444 --> 00:31:21,312

and vice versa.

651

00:31:21,312 --> 00:31:24,315

And, I had a collection of old cars.

652

00:31:24,782 --> 00:31:30,288

I only have one now, and I wanted to learn

how to upholster my own vehicle.

653

00:31:30,989 --> 00:31:33,191

And I work two doors,

654

00:31:33,191 --> 00:31:34,759

and this guy had a panel truck.

655

00:31:34,759 --> 00:31:37,762

Also, he had a 52 Chevy.

656

00:31:37,829 --> 00:31:40,465

He would come through with his machine

657

00:31:40,465 --> 00:31:42,967

and set up anywhere

658

00:31:42,967 --> 00:31:46,471

and, do all the vinyl seats in the school

busses.

659

00:31:47,405 --> 00:31:51,242

And good God, he was there for, you know,

sometimes a month and I go,

660

00:31:51,643 --> 00:31:54,279

wow, I could do this.

661

00:31:54,279 --> 00:31:57,282

And, Yeah, the traveling.

662

00:31:57,315 --> 00:32:00,685

Sewing guy, sewing guy, and,

663

00:32:00,685 --> 00:32:04,489

I asked him, I go, would you,

would you be willing to teach somebody?

664

00:32:04,489 --> 00:32:07,191

And he goes, I you're dead. Wait.

665

00:32:07,191 --> 00:32:10,194

You no no no.

666

00:32:10,628 --> 00:32:11,763

Okay, okay.

667

00:32:11,763 --> 00:32:14,365

He sounds like an honest man. Yeah.

668

00:32:14,365 --> 00:32:15,233

And a year later

669

00:32:15,233 --> 00:32:19,003

and a year later, a couple of years later,

he shows up and he goes, Jimmy.

670

00:32:19,003 --> 00:32:20,071

And he goes,

671

00:32:21,105 --> 00:32:21,806

I'll take it.

672

00:32:21,806 --> 00:32:26,945

I'll take that up or up on you if you,

teach me how to become a river guide.

673

00:32:26,978 --> 00:32:28,646

Oh, wow. Oh, there's a.

674

00:32:28,646 --> 00:32:31,649

Now I go, well,

I can just shove him up there in the back,

675

00:32:31,816 --> 00:32:36,154

you know, in the warehouse

and tell him to take him on river trips.

676

00:32:36,154 --> 00:32:39,490

And so it was a good balance relationship.

677

00:32:39,490 --> 00:32:45,063

You arrived out with that, And, we had

we had rented a house.

678

00:32:45,330 --> 00:32:48,333

It was old Liz Hyman Kurtzman's house.

679

00:32:48,733 --> 00:32:53,371

Or is was an old,

gold mining little, encampment

680

00:32:53,538 --> 00:32:57,075

with buildings from the 1850s.

681

00:32:57,976 --> 00:33:01,012

And, I had rented one of the houses

from George.

682

00:33:01,946 --> 00:33:06,851

And that's where we set up the sewing shop

for Dickie and his machine.

683

00:33:07,752 --> 00:33:09,620

And then I did this,

684

00:33:10,788 --> 00:33:13,091

diamond down,

685

00:33:13,091 --> 00:33:14,959

German film trip.

686

00:33:14,959 --> 00:33:15,660

I remember.

687

00:33:15,660 --> 00:33:17,528

Oh, well, you remember it?

688

00:33:17,528 --> 00:33:19,864

Well.

689

00:33:19,864 --> 00:33:22,333

And to make a long story short.

690

00:33:22,333 --> 00:33:26,471

Yeah, after I came home with a paycheck

from that, trip.

691

00:33:26,637 --> 00:33:27,338

Right.

692

00:33:27,338 --> 00:33:31,409

I, Dickie asked me, he goes, you serious

about, learning how to sew?

693

00:33:31,409 --> 00:33:33,544

And I go, yeah.

And he goes, we're getting the band truck.

694

00:33:33,544 --> 00:33:37,315

We're going to Sacramento

and buy your sewing machine.

695

00:33:38,282 --> 00:33:42,086

1950 Sears Industrial.

696

00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,956

It was owned by,

697

00:33:44,956 --> 00:33:46,324

Levi-Strauss.

698

00:33:46,324 --> 00:33:48,693

And I still have it. Oh, awesome.

699

00:33:48,693 --> 00:33:52,830

So I learned by frustration, self-taught.

700

00:33:53,431 --> 00:33:55,800

Well, you know, I've always admired,

701

00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,903

the skill set that goes into what

702

00:33:58,903 --> 00:34:03,374

you did, and it is a real precise,

you know, you got the fabric, but,

703

00:34:03,841 --> 00:34:07,345

you know, any little mistake just leaps

704

00:34:07,345 --> 00:34:11,215

out of the work,

and it's, it's a real skill

705

00:34:11,215 --> 00:34:15,019

set that a lot of people don't

maybe appreciate the way they said.

706

00:34:15,319 --> 00:34:17,055

Like the way you described it.

707

00:34:17,055 --> 00:34:19,857

You know, it's not easy.

708

00:34:19,857 --> 00:34:21,559

It's not an easy skill.

709

00:34:21,559 --> 00:34:24,562

Know, I wanted to learn something

that I could do

710

00:34:25,163 --> 00:34:29,400

that didn't require

being a construction carpenter.

711

00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,370

Heavy lifting. Yeah. You know. Yeah.

712

00:34:32,403 --> 00:34:35,106

And so, you followed through

713

00:34:35,106 --> 00:34:39,010

with that skill,

alongside your boating and stuff.

714

00:34:39,010 --> 00:34:41,846

And if I can recall, you did, like,

715

00:34:41,846 --> 00:34:45,283

big jobs for restaurants

and all kinds of stuff, right?

716

00:34:45,516 --> 00:34:48,119

Yeah.

I work for clients here in Flagstaff.

717

00:34:48,119 --> 00:34:48,486

Oh. I

718

00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,523

remember one time we were in,

Sierra Vista

719

00:34:53,491 --> 00:34:55,693

down on the border.

720

00:34:55,693 --> 00:34:58,529

And here I'm walking into this Denny's

restaurant

721

00:34:58,529 --> 00:35:01,532

with these Mexican,

722

00:35:01,599 --> 00:35:04,602

you know, the pollsters and me.

723

00:35:05,470 --> 00:35:06,838

We look like gangsters.

724

00:35:06,838 --> 00:35:09,841

And, you still do.

725

00:35:11,275 --> 00:35:12,677

Or worse.

726

00:35:12,677 --> 00:35:15,680

Yeah. Or.

727

00:35:17,181 --> 00:35:19,350

But, it was a Denny's.

728

00:35:19,350 --> 00:35:21,519

Oh, that's a big job.

729

00:35:21,519 --> 00:35:23,254

Oh, yeah. Clothes and stuff.

730

00:35:23,254 --> 00:35:26,524

Yeah, we do the shut down

one half of the restaurant and

731

00:35:27,325 --> 00:35:28,392

and just tear apart

732

00:35:28,392 --> 00:35:32,597

all the booths and recover em

and move into the other half the next day.

733

00:35:32,630 --> 00:35:33,764

Yeah.

734

00:35:33,764 --> 00:35:36,801

One day you do a half, and the next day

the other half.

735

00:35:36,834 --> 00:35:37,268

Correct.

736

00:35:37,268 --> 00:35:39,570

A two day restaurant.

737

00:35:39,570 --> 00:35:42,607

Wow. And would you have your machines

right in the.

738

00:35:43,141 --> 00:35:44,742

You'd have em in a trailer.

739

00:35:44,742 --> 00:35:46,043

Or, parked outside.

740

00:35:46,043 --> 00:35:47,845

Parked outside trailers.

741

00:35:47,845 --> 00:35:49,847

Or. I'm out. Yeah.

742

00:35:49,847 --> 00:35:50,515

Big stuff.

743

00:35:50,515 --> 00:35:53,251

Or vehicles.

744

00:35:53,251 --> 00:35:55,019

Harder than that.

745

00:35:55,019 --> 00:35:57,054

I would think they'd be very tricky.

746

00:35:57,054 --> 00:35:58,789

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

747

00:35:58,789 --> 00:36:03,661

And that was my first learning

experience was, automobiles,

748

00:36:04,662 --> 00:36:06,264

truck seats.

749

00:36:06,264 --> 00:36:09,267

Yeah.

They were the easiest that I learned.

750

00:36:09,300 --> 00:36:12,303

You know, he and Ford bolts

take them out and

751

00:36:13,004 --> 00:36:16,874

and you can whip out a truck seat

in a matter of a couple of days

752

00:36:16,874 --> 00:36:21,612

and charge a couple of hundred dollars

to cowboy or anybody.

753

00:36:21,646 --> 00:36:22,513

Yeah.

754

00:36:22,513 --> 00:36:26,484

And, then certain things got,

755

00:36:26,484 --> 00:36:30,254

a little bit more precise

and difficult to headliners.

756

00:36:30,655 --> 00:36:31,122

Yeah.

757

00:36:31,122 --> 00:36:34,392

You know, little tiny things,

door handles.

758

00:36:34,892 --> 00:36:36,494

Yeah.

759

00:36:36,494 --> 00:36:39,497

But you just learn to persevere.

760

00:36:39,897 --> 00:36:42,266

Yeah, yeah,

I've seen your work. It's brilliant.

761

00:36:42,266 --> 00:36:43,634

I've got a chair.

762

00:36:43,634 --> 00:36:47,004

We were just looking at, LBJ sat in it,

763

00:36:47,004 --> 00:36:51,475

an old antique chair that he did

in, you know, leopard skin.

764

00:36:51,842 --> 00:36:52,210

Oh, yeah.

765

00:36:52,210 --> 00:36:54,679

Motif. It's beautiful stuff.

766

00:36:54,679 --> 00:36:56,247

Yeah. You're an artist?

767

00:36:56,247 --> 00:36:58,783

Yeah. You did a truck seat for me,

and I've always appreciated.

768

00:36:58,783 --> 00:37:00,418

Oh. Is there, oh I forgot.

769

00:37:00,418 --> 00:37:04,222

Oh, now, since we're on the subject,

I have a boat seat I need to drop.

770

00:37:04,355 --> 00:37:07,124

Okay. How long is this interview gonna be?

771

00:37:09,627 --> 00:37:10,561

Well, if you'll be in the

772

00:37:10,561 --> 00:37:13,531

boat seat, it's gonna be a lot shorter.

773

00:37:13,764 --> 00:37:15,533

Yeah.

774

00:37:15,533 --> 00:37:17,068

And so now let's.

775

00:37:17,068 --> 00:37:18,603

Let's go.

776

00:37:18,603 --> 00:37:23,207

Got closer to your your, world of today,

777

00:37:23,741 --> 00:37:26,510

your working, with,

778

00:37:26,510 --> 00:37:28,779

oh outfit, saber now.

779

00:37:28,779 --> 00:37:29,313

Correct.

780

00:37:29,313 --> 00:37:34,085

And, you did,

but before we get to that one thing

781

00:37:34,085 --> 00:37:38,356

I will, want to jump into a little bit

is you worked for me

782

00:37:38,356 --> 00:37:41,525

when I had those scientific contracts

for years.

783

00:37:41,559 --> 00:37:44,562

Yes. And, there is a story

784

00:37:44,695 --> 00:37:47,765

that I think would be fun

to just throw out there.

785

00:37:47,798 --> 00:37:48,332

Oh, boy.

786

00:37:48,332 --> 00:37:50,067

That it has to do with you.

787

00:37:50,067 --> 00:37:54,338

And I'll be here

and it's, It's a great story.

788

00:37:54,338 --> 00:37:56,741

L.B., why don't you start the story?

789

00:37:56,741 --> 00:38:01,112

Because, you know, it will,

790

00:38:02,346 --> 00:38:03,114

melt with

791

00:38:03,114 --> 00:38:06,484

Jimmy's

version when you guys get to Crystal over.

792

00:38:06,484 --> 00:38:10,988

Can you kind of start this story

with, Mike Harris's?

793

00:38:11,656 --> 00:38:15,526

But first we spent

we spent some time together

794

00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:17,695

with can't Ex.

795

00:38:17,695 --> 00:38:18,896

That's right.

796

00:38:18,896 --> 00:38:19,930

Richard. Jump ahead.

797

00:38:19,930 --> 00:38:21,932

Did you remember any of that?

798

00:38:21,932 --> 00:38:23,067

Yes. That's.

799

00:38:23,067 --> 00:38:25,569

I don't have very strong memory.

800

00:38:25,569 --> 00:38:28,439

You said because you were sober.

801

00:38:28,439 --> 00:38:31,442

Oh. Cool.

802

00:38:32,076 --> 00:38:34,545

I was working at KNX for a while, and

803

00:38:34,545 --> 00:38:37,548

and, was a

804

00:38:37,982 --> 00:38:40,051

pretty shocked that they had hired this

805

00:38:40,051 --> 00:38:43,587

hatch Bowman because every company down

there's got its own personality.

806

00:38:43,587 --> 00:38:44,789

Right? Yeah. Oh, absolutely.

807

00:38:44,789 --> 00:38:47,792

And that one really has a lot of, Yeah,

808

00:38:48,492 --> 00:38:49,960

yeah.

809

00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,963

And it just didn't seem like

that was going to fit.

810

00:38:53,064 --> 00:38:53,931

A good fit.

811

00:38:53,931 --> 00:38:57,902

And as it turned out,

it was an excellent fit.

812

00:38:58,069 --> 00:38:58,402

All right.

813

00:38:58,402 --> 00:39:02,306

And I found it

a huge pleasure to work with you.

814

00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:04,442

Excellent boatman.

815

00:39:04,442 --> 00:39:06,077

Great people skills.

816

00:39:06,077 --> 00:39:09,180

That deep, gravelly voice.

817

00:39:09,313 --> 00:39:10,781

Wonderful. Cool.

818

00:39:10,781 --> 00:39:13,818

But also a real good looking fella.

819

00:39:13,818 --> 00:39:14,852

Well, then there's that.

820

00:39:14,852 --> 00:39:17,555

I've got mistaken for.

821

00:39:17,555 --> 00:39:19,156

You of.

822

00:39:19,156 --> 00:39:20,157

That. Time.

823

00:39:20,157 --> 00:39:22,893

I wouldn't wish that on anybody. Okay.

824

00:39:25,496 --> 00:39:26,731

The Mike Hare story.

825

00:39:26,731 --> 00:39:30,000

Yeah. Why don't you segue into that? Sure.

826

00:39:30,368 --> 00:39:34,105

So you're doing start us out on

what kind of trip it was, and.

827

00:39:34,205 --> 00:39:37,742

And we'll go back to some of Jimmy's

earlier history in Grand Canyon, but,

828

00:39:37,742 --> 00:39:42,380

it was probably my last trip

in the Grand Canyon.

829

00:39:42,380 --> 00:39:47,551

I think it was in 2008,

and it was a vegetation, mapping trip.

830

00:39:48,052 --> 00:39:52,289

And, me and Michael, poor, poor fella.

831

00:39:53,491 --> 00:39:57,027

We we decided that we would,

run the support for it.

832

00:39:57,027 --> 00:40:00,030

He had, motors now, and I did, too.

833

00:40:00,097 --> 00:40:02,400

And, and off we went.

834

00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:07,138

And the previous year, Michael had been

on a private trip with me in which,

835

00:40:07,738 --> 00:40:12,777

me and a buddy had climbed up to the top

of some butte there near Crystal, and

836

00:40:13,344 --> 00:40:16,414

and he had wanted to go,

but for one reason or another didn't.

837

00:40:17,148 --> 00:40:21,218

And then, the next year we're there

and we got a layover day on this veg trip,

838

00:40:21,786 --> 00:40:24,789

and he decides he's

going to go up and climb this butte,

839

00:40:24,889 --> 00:40:28,125

which was going to be

a pretty big challenge.

840

00:40:28,359 --> 00:40:30,694

But he did it and he did great.

841

00:40:30,694 --> 00:40:34,532

But on the way back

down, about four miles up Crystal Creek,

842

00:40:34,698 --> 00:40:38,636

he slipped and,

a rock broke from under his foot and he,

843

00:40:38,702 --> 00:40:43,374

he fell like maybe 12 or 15ft down,

broke his Talis in his foot

844

00:40:44,008 --> 00:40:49,814

and powdered one of his vertebrae and,

spent the night out there.

845

00:40:49,814 --> 00:40:53,150

We caught up with him in the morning

and, sent him out.

846

00:40:53,918 --> 00:40:57,755

And then we were wondering all day

long, sitting Crystal,

847

00:40:58,522 --> 00:41:03,360

who are they going to send in here

to run Michael's boat out?

848

00:41:04,662 --> 00:41:06,931

And happily in the morning,

849

00:41:06,931 --> 00:41:09,934

a helicopter comes in and door opens up

850

00:41:10,134 --> 00:41:12,603

and this unlikely character hops out.

851

00:41:12,603 --> 00:41:15,606

And,

we both had big smiles on their faces.

852

00:41:15,706 --> 00:41:17,675

And knew it. Was going to go.

853

00:41:17,675 --> 00:41:19,076

Old friends. Yeah.

854

00:41:19,076 --> 00:41:20,377

No, that's that's great.

855

00:41:20,377 --> 00:41:23,914

And then, so, you came in. It was.

856

00:41:23,914 --> 00:41:26,317

Did you still have a bunch of days

left on the trip?

857

00:41:26,317 --> 00:41:27,585

Yeah. Yeah.

858

00:41:27,585 --> 00:41:32,556

And, and and Jimmy says to me, whatever,

whatever you need to do on this trip, we.

859

00:41:32,623 --> 00:41:36,060

I'll work around whatever it is you

you need to stop at certain places.

860

00:41:36,694 --> 00:41:38,462

You need to, whatever it is.

861

00:41:38,462 --> 00:41:41,732

We'll just work around the science

and make it all work I like.

862

00:41:41,732 --> 00:41:44,602

Yeah, that's an attitude. That's.

That's what it is all about.

863

00:41:44,602 --> 00:41:46,804

Being a science boatman.

Yeah. That's great.

864

00:41:46,804 --> 00:41:48,405

Fantastic.

865

00:41:48,405 --> 00:41:52,977

And, the the science stuff was great.

866

00:41:52,977 --> 00:41:55,212

And you did a bunch of those trips for me.

867

00:41:55,212 --> 00:41:57,314

I know. With Mike yard.

868

00:41:57,314 --> 00:42:02,219

A lot of the fish stuff that

we were doing, and, Those same toppings.

869

00:42:02,219 --> 00:42:05,289

Were great days, down there with topping.

870

00:42:05,289 --> 00:42:06,891

We were doing everything,

871

00:42:06,891 --> 00:42:10,694

but you were on a bunch of the topping

trips and the fish trips.

872

00:42:10,694 --> 00:42:15,566

And when you Google Jimmy Grissom, that's

what comes up.

873

00:42:15,933 --> 00:42:16,600

Oh, is that.

874

00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,470

His participation in those research trips?

875

00:42:19,470 --> 00:42:21,071

Oh, cool. You've never done it. Have, you.

876

00:42:21,071 --> 00:42:23,340

Know, googled me. Yeah. Googled you.

877

00:42:23,340 --> 00:42:26,176

Why would I want to do that? Yeah,

I don't know. Curious.

878

00:42:26,176 --> 00:42:29,079

Because the last time

somebody said they tried to

879

00:42:30,581 --> 00:42:33,584

follow me on the inner tube,

880

00:42:33,651 --> 00:42:37,821

they punched up this,

black musician in Australia

881

00:42:38,088 --> 00:42:41,091

by the name of Jimmy Grissom.

882

00:42:41,892 --> 00:42:44,895

You know, that doesn't surprise me at all.

883

00:42:46,497 --> 00:42:48,966

I hope he's a good musician.

884

00:42:48,966 --> 00:42:51,602

Yeah. No mistaken identity, like.

885

00:42:51,602 --> 00:42:55,573

But if you want to find me,

just go through certain avenues.

886

00:42:55,573 --> 00:42:58,676

Yeah, well, if I'd rather Google

887

00:42:58,676 --> 00:43:01,679

you than try and tickle you.

888

00:43:02,813 --> 00:43:04,748

Let me put it that way.

889

00:43:04,748 --> 00:43:07,418

So. And, let's move on

890

00:43:07,418 --> 00:43:10,521

to, you're still doing upholstery stuff.

891

00:43:10,521 --> 00:43:11,689

You're still so on,

892

00:43:11,689 --> 00:43:14,992

but you're working with, Scottie

and Rachel over there at saber.

893

00:43:15,459 --> 00:43:16,627

Sewing for them.

894

00:43:16,627 --> 00:43:19,630

And you're sewing for them. Correct.

895

00:43:19,730 --> 00:43:22,700

And I, they always

bring in some interesting projects,

896

00:43:22,700 --> 00:43:25,970

I would imagine, for you

and lots of straps and, you know,

897

00:43:26,837 --> 00:43:28,973

Lord knows what you do for them.

898

00:43:28,973 --> 00:43:30,774

There's a saying that we have there.

899

00:43:30,774 --> 00:43:31,308

It's save.

900

00:43:31,308 --> 00:43:34,478

It's,

Chris and Jacob and I came up with it.

901

00:43:34,945 --> 00:43:38,015

We can fix almost anything here.

902

00:43:38,015 --> 00:43:38,882

It's. Save it.

903

00:43:38,882 --> 00:43:39,817

Yeah. No.

904

00:43:39,817 --> 00:43:42,286

And and you guys really can.

You're a go to.

905

00:43:42,286 --> 00:43:46,223

That's a great operation

that they've built over there.

906

00:43:46,223 --> 00:43:46,523

Yeah.

907

00:43:46,523 --> 00:43:50,260

Vigilance

building to the addition of the river.

908

00:43:50,260 --> 00:43:51,762

Yeah. Room.

909

00:43:51,762 --> 00:43:51,962

Yeah.

910

00:43:51,962 --> 00:43:52,997

They've got people like you.

911

00:43:52,997 --> 00:43:55,899

And on sacred they've got a lot of nice

people working for them.

912

00:43:55,899 --> 00:43:58,902

And this tip to great. Great operation.

913

00:43:59,269 --> 00:44:03,807

And so are you still interested

in doing any river trips?

914

00:44:03,807 --> 00:44:05,342

Are you for. Money?

915

00:44:05,342 --> 00:44:06,977

Yeah. Yeah, I'm a price.

916

00:44:06,977 --> 00:44:09,213

You need pay to play.

917

00:44:11,515 --> 00:44:11,849

People.

918

00:44:11,849 --> 00:44:12,983

Ask me, right?

919

00:44:12,983 --> 00:44:15,719

If I been down to San Juan and I go,

920

00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:18,722

nobody's ever wanted to pay me.

921

00:44:19,456 --> 00:44:22,059

Oh, I know how that feels.

922

00:44:22,059 --> 00:44:24,962

I've done some free river trips, though,

and you ought to do.

923

00:44:24,962 --> 00:44:27,331

Oh, well, hell, that's all three of us do.

924

00:44:27,331 --> 00:44:30,000

A river trip so far every.

925

00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:31,268

Yeah. So?

926

00:44:31,268 --> 00:44:35,205

So you came over here

to work for Whitewater?

927

00:44:36,206 --> 00:44:36,740

Correct.

928

00:44:36,740 --> 00:44:39,543

Having done a diamond down trip

once before.

929

00:44:39,543 --> 00:44:42,846

I did the diamond down with Brian

930

00:44:42,846 --> 00:44:45,916

on this German from hell.

931

00:44:46,183 --> 00:44:48,485

Oh, it was a long trip draft. Yeah.

932

00:44:48,485 --> 00:44:51,488

Oh, the stories we can tell.

933

00:44:51,555 --> 00:44:54,191

Stephanie White at,

934

00:44:54,191 --> 00:44:57,528

Diamond Creek, that scene of.

935

00:44:58,195 --> 00:45:00,831

Yeah. The foul mouth.

936

00:45:00,831 --> 00:45:02,466

Yeah. John.

937

00:45:02,466 --> 00:45:04,134

And we can sing it.

938

00:45:04,134 --> 00:45:07,471

We we can't sing that song, but,

939

00:45:07,471 --> 00:45:10,441

we soon realized that.

940

00:45:10,507 --> 00:45:12,776

It it was. Found it.

941

00:45:12,776 --> 00:45:17,581

We were we didn't know the rating of what

the work they were doing.

942

00:45:17,581 --> 00:45:21,318

It was four, and it was a crazy trip.

943

00:45:21,318 --> 00:45:24,388

And, the director was, stone drunk.

944

00:45:24,822 --> 00:45:27,725

He was, drinker. From what we found out.

945

00:45:27,725 --> 00:45:31,695

And all these poor people

were getting dragged all over the country

946

00:45:31,895 --> 00:45:35,332

with this guy, and they were all a mass.

947

00:45:35,332 --> 00:45:39,303

So we were

we were like, guidance counselors,

948

00:45:39,503 --> 00:45:44,842

if not for half of of this whole crew,

the for this poor people.

949

00:45:44,842 --> 00:45:48,979

The for mass was a group of Germans

like friends.

950

00:45:48,979 --> 00:45:50,981

The TV show. Yeah.

951

00:45:50,981 --> 00:45:54,051

It went across the country

and they had sex with each other.

952

00:45:54,051 --> 00:45:54,852

Yeah.

953

00:45:54,852 --> 00:45:56,320

And it was nuts.

954

00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,123

And the director

remember his assistant, Patrick?

955

00:45:59,123 --> 00:45:59,923

Yeah, I remember.

956

00:45:59,923 --> 00:46:01,892

He would always be yelling, Patrick.

957

00:46:01,892 --> 00:46:03,360

Another white wine.

958

00:46:05,028 --> 00:46:07,531

Like during shooting in the middle.

959

00:46:07,531 --> 00:46:11,034

I was a lush, but, Yeah. That's right.

960

00:46:11,034 --> 00:46:11,935

That was a good one.

961

00:46:11,935 --> 00:46:13,904

What year was that?

962

00:46:13,904 --> 00:46:16,707

80. There was five there.

963

00:46:16,707 --> 00:46:18,876

Yeah, it was way back to 85.

964

00:46:18,876 --> 00:46:22,813

This was after

you worked for Whitewater during.

965

00:46:23,313 --> 00:46:25,682

All right. It was during the start.

966

00:46:25,682 --> 00:46:28,051

And then that kind of segue it into me

hired.

967

00:46:28,051 --> 00:46:30,654

The numbers are blurry.

968

00:46:30,654 --> 00:46:33,690

So. But what I'm really trying to get at

here is

969

00:46:34,124 --> 00:46:38,595

when you went to work for Fellini,

had you ever done the Grand Canyon before?

970

00:46:38,629 --> 00:46:40,731

Oh, yeah. Peered over the rim.

971

00:46:40,731 --> 00:46:40,998

Yeah.

972

00:46:40,998 --> 00:46:46,703

I, I did river trips a few,

but AWS had a thing, George.

973

00:46:46,703 --> 00:46:47,671

God bless his soul.

974

00:46:47,671 --> 00:46:51,008

Had a thing where he paid to train.

975

00:46:51,375 --> 00:46:54,011

All right. Yeah, and I refuse. Like, You

976

00:46:54,978 --> 00:46:56,046

know.

977

00:46:56,046 --> 00:46:56,747

I don't know.

978

00:46:56,747 --> 00:46:59,750

Hey, to work the train.

979

00:47:00,818 --> 00:47:02,853

So you had that,

980

00:47:02,853 --> 00:47:05,789

philosophy from the early days.

981

00:47:05,789 --> 00:47:06,290

Oh, yeah.

982

00:47:06,290 --> 00:47:08,292

Let's have the pay, you know.

983

00:47:08,292 --> 00:47:10,460

Show me the money.

984

00:47:10,460 --> 00:47:11,795

Yeah.

985

00:47:11,795 --> 00:47:14,498

But you might have snuck on a horse trip

or two before.

986

00:47:14,498 --> 00:47:15,666

Yeah. To work. For.

987

00:47:15,666 --> 00:47:16,099

Oh, yeah.

988

00:47:16,099 --> 00:47:17,401

Yeah, yeah. So you'd.

989

00:47:17,401 --> 00:47:20,370

You knew what

you're getting into a little bit.

990

00:47:20,370 --> 00:47:22,806

I did a

991

00:47:22,806 --> 00:47:25,475

one training trip.

992

00:47:25,475 --> 00:47:27,077

Well, the, the thing was,

993

00:47:27,077 --> 00:47:30,080

I did one training trip with AWS,

and it was,

994

00:47:30,514 --> 00:47:34,985

who's our friend who drowned in, Bali

or in, Oh, Terry, Brian.

995

00:47:35,018 --> 00:47:38,055

Terry, Brian, and, Mike Leary.

996

00:47:38,922 --> 00:47:40,224

Two road commercial.

997

00:47:40,224 --> 00:47:43,660

And then Jeff

Gourley and I were the baggage boatman.

998

00:47:44,061 --> 00:47:44,661

Oh, well.

999

00:47:44,661 --> 00:47:47,764

And, that was early on.

00:47:47,764 --> 00:47:51,568

And then you had to do three training

trips to become a Grand Canyon boatman,

00:47:52,836 --> 00:47:53,370

but with

00:47:53,370 --> 00:47:56,640

prior

experience that I had on the Zambezi.

00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:58,175

And that.

00:47:58,175 --> 00:47:59,409

To all of you took.

00:47:59,409 --> 00:48:01,712

Care of the other two trips.

00:48:01,712 --> 00:48:04,681

So that's how I became the Grand Canyon

boatman,

00:48:04,715 --> 00:48:07,451

fulfilling the regular regulations. Yeah.

00:48:07,451 --> 00:48:10,487

Back then you had to have a Grand Canyon

and Bowmans license.

00:48:10,487 --> 00:48:13,690

So you obviously somebody helped

you pass the test.

00:48:13,891 --> 00:48:18,629

I loved the fact that somebody showed up

at, Lee's Ferry

00:48:18,662 --> 00:48:23,033

was like a Boy Scout sash,

you know, to be your credentials.

00:48:23,033 --> 00:48:24,134

All right.

00:48:24,134 --> 00:48:25,435

Go. Attaboy.

00:48:25,435 --> 00:48:28,438

There you go.

00:48:28,472 --> 00:48:29,940

Fantastic stuff.

00:48:29,940 --> 00:48:32,943

So you went from running

in a couple of baggage boats for oars

00:48:33,277 --> 00:48:37,547

to run the biggest, most obnoxious boat

in the Grand Canyon with a motor.

00:48:37,681 --> 00:48:40,017

Correct. And I had an attitude.

00:48:40,017 --> 00:48:41,351

Yeah,

00:48:41,351 --> 00:48:43,120

well,

you were really good with the people.

00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:47,457

And I remember one hot day

I was doing science.

00:48:47,891 --> 00:48:51,495

But I'd pull up and,

you know, of course, that's Jimmy.

00:48:51,495 --> 00:48:52,195

And,

00:48:53,530 --> 00:48:55,232

his crew was people.

00:48:55,232 --> 00:48:59,369

It was like 116 degrees, really hot.

00:48:59,369 --> 00:49:02,973

And Jimmy was got a bucket

with a rope on it.

00:49:03,540 --> 00:49:07,711

And the people are sitting there

and and he'd individually

00:49:07,711 --> 00:49:13,450

go to all these people and pour a bucket

of water over there to keep them cool.

00:49:13,450 --> 00:49:15,452

And you were very attentive to the quiet.

00:49:15,452 --> 00:49:18,455

Well, from what I could tell from that.

00:49:19,156 --> 00:49:21,525

But you're beautiful. You're a. Guy.

00:49:21,525 --> 00:49:25,595

And then I learned how to punch holes

in the bottom of the chicky pail

00:49:26,163 --> 00:49:27,097

to make it a shower.

00:49:27,097 --> 00:49:28,098

Yeah, a little shower.

00:49:28,098 --> 00:49:30,300

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm progression.

00:49:30,300 --> 00:49:33,270

Man discovers tools.

00:49:34,471 --> 00:49:36,073

And now you've got a water pump.

00:49:36,073 --> 00:49:38,475

Oh, yeah. No, we do it a little different.

00:49:38,475 --> 00:49:39,710

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:49:39,710 --> 00:49:40,844

I was a.

00:49:40,844 --> 00:49:42,245

My beloved water pump.

00:49:42,245 --> 00:49:43,880

My dad was a dinosaur.

00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,450

Still just in his heart, you know.

00:49:46,450 --> 00:49:48,118

So dad has not charge.

00:49:48,118 --> 00:49:51,054

Harder than. God. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:49:51,054 --> 00:49:53,991

We've had a lot of really hot

00:49:53,991 --> 00:49:56,326

summers these last few.

00:49:56,326 --> 00:49:58,295

Well, what else have you got for this?

00:49:59,696 --> 00:50:01,131

Jumping on a boat like that?

00:50:01,131 --> 00:50:05,602

You must have had some

some less than perfect runs.

00:50:06,803 --> 00:50:08,905

Oh, yeah,

00:50:08,905 --> 00:50:11,675

but but you learned that the goddamn boat

00:50:11,675 --> 00:50:15,579

was 37ft long and 15ft wide.

00:50:17,014 --> 00:50:18,548

Then what was that year that we did?

00:50:18,548 --> 00:50:21,752

5000? Yeah, bro. All summer long.

00:50:22,119 --> 00:50:24,654

Yeah, I would back that thing down.

00:50:24,654 --> 00:50:26,823

Hands.

00:50:26,823 --> 00:50:28,825

Good. Stupid idea.

00:50:28,825 --> 00:50:29,793

That seems stupid.

00:50:29,793 --> 00:50:32,763

Yeah, cause you're exposing the motor

00:50:32,763 --> 00:50:34,798

and then backing it through Nixon Rock.

00:50:34,798 --> 00:50:37,334

That was also, Whoa.

00:50:37,334 --> 00:50:39,603

A Slim Shady

00:50:39,603 --> 00:50:41,138

experience.

00:50:41,138 --> 00:50:42,873

Know,

00:50:42,873 --> 00:50:45,876

but, you know, those boats when I ran it.

00:50:47,511 --> 00:50:49,980

It was a big ride in those boats, like.

00:50:49,980 --> 00:50:52,282

Oh, fantastic. Huge boat.

00:50:52,282 --> 00:50:55,552

And you'd run down the middle

I had or Herman, Ernie

00:50:55,585 --> 00:50:58,622

Prine or, Sock Gallagher.

00:50:58,622 --> 00:51:02,759

And those were big,

tall rides on those books.

00:51:02,793 --> 00:51:05,796

Yeah. And people loved, And so today.

00:51:06,763 --> 00:51:08,832

So you're going

00:51:08,832 --> 00:51:11,835

to be, working with,

00:51:12,636 --> 00:51:14,871

Scottie and Rachel and,

00:51:14,871 --> 00:51:18,375

I really hope that we do

put together a little private trip.

00:51:18,642 --> 00:51:21,878

And we'll borrow

some of their boats to do it.

00:51:21,945 --> 00:51:22,946

Perfect.

00:51:22,946 --> 00:51:25,949

Don't you think?

00:51:25,982 --> 00:51:27,517

So, Jimmy, what I can do.

00:51:27,517 --> 00:51:30,520

One of the things I can remember

from your costume from way back.

00:51:31,288 --> 00:51:33,290

Can you imagine

00:51:33,290 --> 00:51:34,424

a necklace?

00:51:34,424 --> 00:51:38,795

Oh, all the bones and teeth

that I go to wear.

00:51:39,029 --> 00:51:39,963

Yeah.

00:51:39,963 --> 00:51:43,233

Yeah, it's tucked away in a box somewhere.

00:51:43,767 --> 00:51:45,368

Well, what's the origin of that?

00:51:45,368 --> 00:51:47,204

Because I remember that necklace.

00:51:47,204 --> 00:51:50,540

Yeah. It had tiger. Claws.

00:51:50,574 --> 00:51:51,508

Or, you know.

00:51:51,508 --> 00:51:54,811

There's some sort of,

in the centerpiece of

00:51:54,811 --> 00:51:58,315

the necklace is a carving of Benjamin.

00:51:58,348 --> 00:52:01,518

Yummy, which is the Zambezi River.

00:52:01,518 --> 00:52:04,688

God. Right? Yeah. It looks like a serpent.

00:52:05,722 --> 00:52:06,790

And then

00:52:06,790 --> 00:52:10,260

going up from there,

maybe there are some of my teeth there.

00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:14,531

No, no, no, no, but, yeah.

00:52:14,531 --> 00:52:16,967

Bones and teeth.

00:52:16,967 --> 00:52:20,737

I remember

I got some teeth from, a dolphin in Bali.

00:52:21,538 --> 00:52:22,772

And that was good luck.

00:52:22,772 --> 00:52:25,408

Or, you know, they're just talismans.

00:52:25,408 --> 00:52:26,776

Then. Did you make. It?

00:52:26,776 --> 00:52:27,577

The necklace?

00:52:27,577 --> 00:52:31,214

Oh, it was

it was tie down and drill holes and shit.

00:52:31,982 --> 00:52:32,816

I think he's saying.

00:52:32,816 --> 00:52:35,652

Yes, yes, I think I believe, yes, yes.

00:52:35,652 --> 00:52:38,355

Trying to interpret what he answered me.

00:52:38,355 --> 00:52:41,124

Yeah. Yeah, it's made by me.

00:52:41,124 --> 00:52:44,694

Well, we're, for the visitor here.

00:52:44,694 --> 00:52:47,731

We I am going to make it a special project

00:52:47,731 --> 00:52:51,034

to go,

get Jimmy to dig that necklace out.

00:52:51,601 --> 00:52:55,805

I got pictures for you to Alby,

and then we'll post some pictures.

00:52:55,805 --> 00:52:57,774

Okay? Of the necklace.

00:52:57,774 --> 00:52:59,609

That'll be easier for the time.

00:52:59,609 --> 00:53:01,111

But I think of the necklaces.

00:53:01,111 --> 00:53:05,815

And maybe you in that new black cowboy

hat would be a good combo.

00:53:06,183 --> 00:53:08,752

Really. But, It's great.

00:53:08,752 --> 00:53:11,354

I think we're kind of there in time.

00:53:11,354 --> 00:53:14,691

You got any more questions

for our friend here?

00:53:14,791 --> 00:53:15,725

They'll be my.

00:53:16,726 --> 00:53:17,160

Money.

00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:18,628

But I'm a fellow interviewer.

00:53:18,628 --> 00:53:20,664

Kind of really fit.

00:53:20,664 --> 00:53:21,998

Do you want to go?

00:53:21,998 --> 00:53:24,768

So, speaking of costume, I.

00:53:24,768 --> 00:53:29,406

If you remember, if you ever saw us,

on the last night of the whitewater.

00:53:29,906 --> 00:53:31,141

Oh, was it tuxedos?

00:53:31,141 --> 00:53:31,441

Was it.

00:53:31,441 --> 00:53:33,443

Tuxedos? Everybody.

00:53:33,443 --> 00:53:35,579

Not everybody, but the crew.

00:53:35,579 --> 00:53:39,849

You had a white shirt, and he had a vest,

and I go, I already got that shit.

00:53:40,450 --> 00:53:41,418

Yeah. Yeah.

00:53:41,418 --> 00:53:43,653

And, so and so back.

00:53:43,653 --> 00:53:46,056

But I didn't work for flaming.

00:53:46,056 --> 00:53:46,456

Right.

00:53:46,456 --> 00:53:48,158

Let's get that correct. Yes.

00:53:48,158 --> 00:53:50,460

Yeah. So Beck's Whitewater. Yep.

00:53:50,460 --> 00:53:55,632

And, so Henry had this champagne thing

at the last night.

00:53:56,566 --> 00:53:58,635

It was a pretty cool little production.

00:53:58,635 --> 00:54:02,372

You know, I'd read out of,

you know, John Wesley Powell,

00:54:03,206 --> 00:54:06,676

and we'd have these,

you know, top hats on,

00:54:06,676 --> 00:54:10,480

and I would make a big deal of tipping it

over and sitting in front of me.

00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:10,747

You know,

00:54:11,815 --> 00:54:13,083

Larry, for the top.

00:54:13,083 --> 00:54:15,218

Oh, yeah.

00:54:15,218 --> 00:54:17,220

Yes. And but when. So back.

00:54:17,220 --> 00:54:20,290

But the company, Charlie Ross

00:54:20,290 --> 00:54:25,328

had somebody make the vest

out of an animal print

00:54:25,328 --> 00:54:29,432

with hippos and crocodiles and the motif.

00:54:29,532 --> 00:54:32,535

Right, right. So back in,

00:54:32,969 --> 00:54:35,071

so that was kind of fun.

00:54:35,071 --> 00:54:37,474

It was kind of cheesy.

00:54:37,474 --> 00:54:38,074

Oh, yeah.

00:54:38,074 --> 00:54:42,012

Yeah, yeah,

I remember being in that ceremony myself.

00:54:42,012 --> 00:54:43,346

Oh, you did do that.

00:54:43,346 --> 00:54:46,349

Oh, good God, you got pictures.

00:54:46,583 --> 00:54:47,617

I probably did.

00:54:47,617 --> 00:54:49,753

Okay. Probably do around here.

00:54:49,753 --> 00:54:50,854

Yeah.

00:54:50,854 --> 00:54:53,757

Remember we'd motor upstream.

00:54:53,757 --> 00:54:56,393

The crew would do the fishing.

00:54:56,393 --> 00:54:58,128

And that's when you do some things.

00:54:58,128 --> 00:54:59,496

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:54:59,496 --> 00:55:02,499

You'd, prepare for the celebration.

00:55:02,666 --> 00:55:05,335

Yeah. Get away from the clients.

00:55:05,335 --> 00:55:08,705

And then you'd be all arm

in arm and puffy testing.

00:55:09,739 --> 00:55:11,608

Yeah, I remember Brian Mitchell.

00:55:11,608 --> 00:55:13,143

I won't go into any.

00:55:13,143 --> 00:55:17,614

Yeah, details here,

but he was, for some reason,

00:55:17,614 --> 00:55:21,885

after our preparation,

his throat was so dry,

00:55:21,885 --> 00:55:25,789

he was trying to read out of

the Powell thing, and he had cottonmouth,

00:55:25,789 --> 00:55:27,090

and his voice was more.

00:55:27,090 --> 00:55:29,092

Grab than mine.

00:55:29,092 --> 00:55:32,429

Yes. And he he

he wasn't pulling it off at all.

00:55:32,429 --> 00:55:34,631

One of us had to

pull the book away from him,

00:55:36,633 --> 00:55:38,468

but, Hey, this is great.

00:55:38,468 --> 00:55:42,939

Yeah, I really like, L.B.,

thank you so much for sitting down

00:55:43,373 --> 00:55:46,276

and, co interviewing Jimmy.

00:55:46,276 --> 00:55:47,310

With pleasure.

00:55:47,310 --> 00:55:49,145

And I still need to talk.

00:55:49,145 --> 00:55:52,148

You and, sit down sometime. We'll see.

00:55:52,382 --> 00:55:55,318

Yeah, I will, I will look forward to it.

00:55:55,318 --> 00:55:57,487

Okay. I'm an optimist, though.

00:55:57,487 --> 00:56:01,291

Tell all the eligible single women

that I'm single.

00:56:01,291 --> 00:56:02,092

Awesome. Yeah.

00:56:02,092 --> 00:56:05,929

No, I'm sure there's hundreds of you

out there listening that

00:56:05,929 --> 00:56:09,966

now that you've heard Jimmy's voice,

you'll be getting a lot of fan mail

00:56:10,667 --> 00:56:11,701

from these gals.

00:56:11,701 --> 00:56:13,970

But, thanks for being here.

00:56:13,970 --> 00:56:18,608

You know, the, honor of sitting down

with the both of you.

00:56:18,608 --> 00:56:20,944

A can even totally be expressed.

00:56:20,944 --> 00:56:24,214

And, for the listeners,

thanks for sitting down with us.

00:56:24,214 --> 00:56:27,584

I hope you guys are being safe

and careful out there.

00:56:27,584 --> 00:56:29,753

Keep right side up.

00:56:29,753 --> 00:56:34,758

This is big adventures

with my boys, Jimmy Grissom and L.B..

00:56:41,064 --> 00:56:43,533

Big adventures

is produced by Brian Darker,

00:56:43,533 --> 00:56:46,236

Haley darker, and me, Gavin Buckner.

00:56:46,236 --> 00:56:49,139

If you like our show, please subscribe

so you never miss

00:56:49,139 --> 00:56:54,177

an episode. Of.