Welcome to season three of Rooted in Reaching, where we talk with dreamers, doers and difference makers building an innovative future right here in the South Bend Elkhart region. Entrepreneurs know that where we're rooted matters and where we're reaching matters even more. Today we're talking to Nick Ackerman and Adam Toland, inventors of Door Blockade, an innovative and award winning secondary security device providing 5 seconds to extra safety and security. Let's start up. Well, welcome. I am here today with Nick Ackerman and Adam Tolan with Door Blockade. This is a really interesting journey that they've been on and a great product, unfortunate product in some ways because of its application, but also a necessary product in the world that we live in. So I want to start with Nick. Nick, why don't you just, before we get into any background, why don't you tell us a little bit about what is Door Blockade? Just a level set here for the audience.

So Door blockade is a portable door breaking device. And for a lot of people, that kind of gets in the weed of like, what does that mean? Portable means there's no installation required. You don't have to install anything. Secondary locking device or door barricade device is you have your normal lock and you have your normal handle lock and all that rigmarole. A secondary lock is what you add on top of that. And we're kind of in this niche position where nobody else can do what we do. There's no other device on the market that's kind of close. So it works on outward swinging doors, inward swinging doors. It works on everything besides solid pane glass doors, especially in the interior doors. Kind of what we're marketing for. Like zag. Can hold it up.

Yeah, you can hold it up there real quick. That's great. So the, the original audience, well, writ large, it's for additional door security, correct? Right. It's an additional lock that will secure a door. And I know we'll talk a little bit later in the podcast about what you learned from your customers. I think your original customers, you were thinking about school suiting situations and providing extra security in classroom environments. So we'll talk more about that. So this is great. So that's where we are, Door Blockade. And then, Nick, you have a long background in manufacturing. Just can you give us like a 60 second, like, yeah. What did you do? How did you enter the world of manufacturing?

Ironically, it kind of started with Boy Scouts when I got out of Scouts, my scoutmaster in my troop, I'm actually a scout master still. I actually Went back out, my Eagle Scout went back and I'm a Scout master there. My troop, when you turn 18, we just don't boot you the door. Like you can't be involved in scouting anyway. But you can still, you know, we make sure you got it. You get a, get a skill, get a trade, go to school, whatever. And I wasn't sure I want to do. I like learning, but I didn't like school. I don't like sitting down, I don't like sitting behind a desk. And my Scott master was like, Nick, I got someone you might not want to talk to. Because I loved building stuff. I've always been a tinker, I've always done that kind of stuff. And he took me to his father in law's B and B mold, his father in law, old B and B mold. And he was like, well, I'm going to show you around here. Or his brother in law did and sat there and he showed me all these machines and I was hooked right there. And then we went down to the south and Ivy Tech, right? And they had the machine tool program. So I signed up the same day to that machine tool program. A couple months later I started that machine tool program at Ivy Tech and that was really changed. That's a real pivot point in my adulthood. It kind of gave me the direction and from there I've been, I'm a tool and die maker by trade. I've made stuff for a lot of crazy things. Boeing, SpaceX, Lockheed Martin, NASA. Just all the rig and roll.

So it's pretty interesting. So it sounds like it was love at first sight in a way. When you visited the first company that your scout master recommended, I mean, was it really like that?

Yeah.

He showed you around and you were like, I'm in love.

I'm hooked. Because I really started because I love the outdoors, Boy scouts and I love like knives. Not like the weird like, you know, this is a tool, right? Because you think about one of our first tools was a knife, right? A hammer and a knife. And I was trying to make a better knife. I was trying to make a better knife. And so I goes into metal working and he's in my scrum. I was like, well, you like metal working so much, how about you try the machining? It pays a little better. Better than sending your garage trying to make a knife. And there's a lot more career opportunity. And he was correct on that. So that's what really came from and from there. Unfortunately, I haven't made a knife since then. I'VE made everything else but a knife.

Maybe you'll circle back around to that.

One day when I retire. Right.

Well, it turns out I'm also an Eagle Scout, so we'll have to do the secret handshake later. So you've done a variety of different manufacturing, tool and die related jobs.

Yep.

And were you ever thinking in the back of your mind, I want to make my own thing?

No.

I knew working for other people.

Yeah, I was working for other people never bothered me. I never had a problem with taking direction or being told to do this or that. I never had a problem with that. I, in the original beginning of the story of the product, I never went out, intended to actually invent anything. With Boy Scouts, I'm really good at fundraising and my goal is to find something that was out there and fundraise it and get it into my local schools.

Got it.

You know, because a lot of my scouts, you know, they're all in school, right? So I was like, well, what can I do to make sure my scouts are safe during their school? And then this was kind of the rabbit hole. I have a background in design too. I joke around my really close becoming a mechanical engineer. I need like a couple cost credits. So, like, I'm actually fairly confident when it comes to designing and all that stuff. And so I sat there and I spread between the lines. And that's how we kind of got here to the device.

Let me ask you about that, though. So, like, what led you to the device in particular? So was there a certain moment or were you narrowing down a variety of ideas and you just really latched onto this one?

So you have to think about what all. So you sit there and listen to why are other products available? Like, so he goes, so why can't you use other products? And you got fire code compliance. You look at all these different codes, right? So you're building a box to work within, right? And then you go, okay, here's my box. And so you have to start narrowing down the box, right? So when you, as you narrow down the box, that limits your design restraints, right? Because now you go, oh, how can I make this? You know, it has to work on all the doors because if it only works in half the school, then the whole school won't adopt it, right? So then you go, okay, what do all doors have in common? Then we go, okay, well, all interior doors have to have a gap underneath the rage back. You know how small it is. It has to have that. So that's one feature all doors have to have in common. And so then you start going, okay, this is one feature. Then you go, okay, how do you stop an outward swinging door?

Yeah.

Actually a pretty hard question to ask. And then you go, well, how do you stop. How can you stop things from moving? Always put under tension. So you go. And so it's kind of one of those rabbit holes if you have to think about. You start narrowing things down. As you narrow things down, that limits your design restraint until you finally get down to the final product. And then from there you go, okay, this is my final product. How can I make this so I can make a lot of them affordably.

Yeah.

And that. I'm a firm believer in kiss. Keep it simple, stupid. And so as we look at the product, it looks simple. Like, everyone looks at it and they go, it's simple. But there's a full utility patent on it. I got the full utility patent on it.

So let me get this right, though. I mean, it sounds like when you started, you weren't looking to start a company. You were looking to do a fundraiser or just looking to do a project with the scouts.

I really just. So my day job is one of the best places. I've been working there for six years. He lets me machine all this stuff in the facility. I'm his lead machinist there, and he. I have the keys in the entry code. He doesn't care what I do there as long as, you know, the machine's not torn apart for a job or whatever. So I can machine all this stuff. All the prototypes I did from scrap material that we had.

Got it. And you were tinkering after hours.

I was tinkering after hours. And what you find on the utility patent is what I is looks almost perfectly identical to the final product, which is kind of rare when you talk about utility patents. And so I actually was thinking about licensing it, going into licensing, because I don't have the business snack right. I can quote, like, when it comes to, like, product, I can service. Like, you need something machine, you need something made. I know how hours work. I know how that work. I can do that. I've done subcontracting work before. Like subcontract manufacturing, like subcontract program. I've done that before when I come a business, but it's a bit scant. And I'm okay with having a weekly income, a weekly guaranteed income. I'm comfortable within, living within those. Those parameters. I've never been much for.

So was there a moment when you were doing this? You were. You Were working after hours. You were using scrap bits. And there was there a moment there must have been, right? You got the patent where you thought, geez, this is a real product that I could develop. Like, it's not just a hobby or it's not just a. Not just doing this for fun anymore. Like this could be a real thing.

It was once I did the prototype and the materials are in there because of how the forces are on this thing, how strong it is. It's the simple mechanics of it. I did it on the shop door. I sat there and it's humongous. I call it the brick. I mean, it's humongous.

It's like RoboCop.

It's humongous. And you know, make it quick, make it simple and get. See if it works, you know, And I did it and I kind of laughed because it stopped it. It worked better than I ever thought, Right. And I kind of call my mom, like, mom, it works, right? Because I've been working overnight. I work until like 11 o' clock at night. I get shop at 6, 7 o' clock in the morning. I get out 11 o' clock at night every single day trying to get this thing. And it finally worked. And I was like, okay, let me prove this out. Make sure it does work. And this I told Adam, we just did a song, Adam, we did a setup at a theater the last few days. And sometimes there's a bit of self doubt, like, oh man, you know, Because I know that I know this device in and out.

Sure.

And it's something like, oh, is it as strong as it is? It is. Whatever. You know, that bit of self doubt. But then when you put it on the door, you sit in place and you can hear the building kind of groan from the force. And you go, any chest on the door and the door is not moving. And that. That builds back to confidence. So, yeah, it's a bit of that. Like, never thought I'd be it in there. And then that. So that was. That was that when you first get it? When I first did it, that was that hook. I knew I had something. Yeah, I knew I had something.

You blocked off the big heavy door and it worked, right. And you called your mom. You're like, okay, yeah. So you were going to license it. Is that when you started thinking, well, maybe I should license this thing?

Yeah. So I was. So I looked down the licensing route and what was challenging about the licensing route was there's nothing like this. I know people say there are, but there isn't.

Okay.

There might be one that's similar, but it only works on inward swinging doors. And that's actually a pretty easy thing to stop. So this works on outward, and we're swinging. So as I started calling companies and I got really good response, I really got really good traction with some pretty big companies. Okay. And they're like, we like your idea. The market's unproven because secondary lock. It's a fraught. And we might touch on this later.

Sure.

It's a fraught industry. It's real touchy. Fire code compliance codes, just. And they're like, we like it. If you start getting sales, call us back and then we can talk our deal. And I was like, well, if I'm gonna have to do all that work, why am I gonna cut someone else into the pie?

Yeah. Right.

So that's why I really decided. I was like, I'm gonna go for it. Because if I got. It was like three CEOs and some pretty big companies were like, this is kind of incredible.

Yeah.

But there's no proof.

So they wanted you to prove it out, develop a customer, and then they would consider investing or buying.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They're like, do everything. And then I consider. I'm like, well, I'm gonna do everything. I might do it.

Right.

And so that was in. That was the first initiative of just getting out there and starting the business.

Yeah. Yeah.

Fantastic. I don't want to ignore Adam here.

Yeah.

At some point in this journey after this, after this discovery period that you went through, you met Adam.

Yeah.

Can you tell us how that happened? And Adam, I'll have you tell us a little bit about yourself.

Ironically, same scout leader who got me in the machining, he goes, I was starting this business, and I was like, greg, I need some business advice. And he's a very successful individual. Right.

Okay. And.

And I was. And. But he's more of a service based construction that kind of stuff. Owns lots of properties. And I was like. And he goes, I know someone. His name is Tim Hines. He was in the Innovation. He was in Innovation Park.

He was here at University of Notre Dame.

Yeah, Notre Dame. Sorry, I keep on forgetting. We're Notre Dame. We do a lot of things there. And he goes, I spoke with. He goes, I know him very well. He goes, I'm gonna introduce you to him. And so we did. And so I went over to his house and I just told him my idea. I'm like, I'm kind of stuck wanting to go business wise. And Tim took a liking to me. And he goes, I can't guarantee you anything. I can get you in contact with some people, but it's up to you to get. Take it any further.

Got it.

And that was a phone call to John Henry or email to John Henry. And then one phone call John Henry later, Adam got. I think it was the same phone call.

Yeah.

Is John goes, I know a guy. Hold on a minute. And then proceeds to call Adam and brings Adam into the phone call.

John is nothing if not enthusiastic. He is a master connector. Absolutely. Okay, so let's hold that. So you met Adam.

Yep.

And, Adam, where did you come from? And I don't mean literally, but actually. Yes, literally. And why was. Why did John Henry think of you?

Yeah. Yeah. So there is a. It's strange. There's a bit of a backstory that led to. To, like, really serendipitous timing. So from Ireland originally, even though my accents died down a bit, unfortunately. But found my way to Notre Dame when I was 19. At the second time of asking, the first time, they rejected me. And then I decided I really wanted to come here. Took a gap year and applied again.

Got it.

Got into the second time.

Got in the second time. Okay, so this was as a freshman. Yes, at Notre Dame.

Yeah. And so where this already started for me was I'd spent the first two years in Notre Dame studying math and Spanish, doing the typical student stuff. Coming up to summer of sophomore year, I wanted some sort of summer experience, summer internship. And I'm a big believer in, like, going outside your comfort zone. I wear a ring here that says, seek discomfort.

Okay.

And it's like a motto that I try and embody and things that I do.

It's a fair entrepreneurial mindset.

I didn't know that at the time. Yeah, it turns out. Yeah, it kind of is. So I cold emailed John Henry, having never met him, and said, hey, here's a bit about me. I don't know anything about your idea center, but, like, I would love an internship.

Okay.

So this is the summer after your sophomore year.

Summer. Sophomore year.

So you were not in a STEAM program. You didn't have any prior association with the Idea Center.

Yeah. So this is really the, like, the source of where all of this kind of came out of. And so I did summer internship there. Loved it. Became hooked on startup culture, on kind of collaborative chaos is kind of what I call it. And I just. I find myself thriving in that environment. So I wanted to stay involved and had built up a good relationship with John. And then throughout the preceding maybe 18 months, I worked on a few different experiences, but one of them was really impactful and is what led me to want to eventually work on something like door blockade, where I was working with the Migrant Impact Network, which was this think tank trying to leverage innovative technologies to help vulnerable populations. And one of the things I was trying to do there was secure full time employment for this group of 76 Afghan migrants. You had to. Had to flee.

The flee who were here in South Bend or in other parts.

Here in the U.S. yeah, here in the U.S. yes.

Okay.

Yeah. So they had to flee after the political happenings there and essentially needed full time employment to get asylum and stay in the country. I was, on the other hand, I was the student reaching out to CEOs of hospitality companies such as Mari Choice Hotels, et cetera, trying to get these guys on the phone to say, hey, like, we have this thing. We need you to help all Notre Dame alumni.

Got it.

And so after eventually securing employment for all 76 of those people, it was. Thank you. Yeah, it definitely wasn't just me, but it was a pretty important kind of like, lesson of, hey, at Notre Dame, I study math and study Spanish. These are two things I view as problem solving. And now here's entrepreneurship.

You probably don't learn a lot about cold calling.

No, the only way to learn by cold calling is by doing cold calling and smile and Die. But yeah, that was really impactful in the sense of, okay, here's the impact you can have with entrepreneurship. Here's this way to practically problem solve in the real world and have real impact. And so after I kind of finished up with that, I was doing an internship in Boston for the summer. But before I left, I said to John, hey, John, just so you know, I've done a few different things here. I've started in lead student teams. I've worked at the Migrant Impact Network. I really want to get involved in a startup next. I think this is like the next kind of evolution of my journey through the Idea Center. And I said to him, I really want it to be something socially driven that has a mission attached to it. I don't want it to be anything other than that. And that same summer, towards the end of it, was in Boston doing my internship, like I said. And John calls me and he says, hey, like, I'm on a zoom call with this guy. Like, drop everything you're doing. You need to get on the zoom call. And it's the same call that Nick was talking about.

Okay, so there you were, you just like, oh, my gosh. Okay.

Yeah. John liked the idea, liked my, I guess, tenacity, because before I reached out to Notre Dame, I obtained an SBA loan. I knew what I needed to get going. I had a couple calls, I had a couple meetings with schools and. And they like it. They're like, if you had it here, we buy it. Right? That's kind of the best thing to ever hear is when they're like, if you had it here, I buy it.

Yeah.

And so that really put me on the spurs does. And I talked to, once again, Greg was like talking to my father in law. He's a sexual business person. I talked to some, some pretty successful business people like, like, go get SBA loan. They're like, you have an idea, you have the proper background. Get an SBA loan. So I have the SBA loan, everything there, and I get it going. But then it was the business. I think I was completely lost. It was. Don't know where to start. Don't, whatever. And that's where they're like, you need to go to Notre Dame. And that was when the kind of the marriage. I like what Adams calls it for chalk and cheese.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, we're talking cheese or two different.

Cheese.

Yeah, it's an Irish phrase. I realized it's not really sad here. Like, you're so different, but it almost.

Yeah.

You compliment each other like water and oil or something.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So then Adam, really? So when someone like when John was like, cheese.

Yeah.

So then. So John. Because John was like, I like your idea, but you. But like, you're not a student or you're not a student, so I can't really help you. But you're being a student on. Then I can. We can help you in every way possible. And I was like, I got no, no problem bringing on a student. Right. Because I think a lot of entrepreneurs tend to hold their, their things very close to chests. Right.

They sometimes do. It's almost always a mistake.

And so I learned very early on I listened to a lot of books, read a lot of books about business, and they're like, the first thing you gotta do is realize that you take it apart and let someone else take it and run, because they're going to do more than what you can do by yourself. So when John was like, told me, I was like, I'm all on board.

Yeah.

So the first time you two met was on this zoom call with John moderating.

Yes.

Okay.

How did that go for you, Adam? Were you. You were at work?

Yeah. I was at work. Yeah. I mean, it was great. Like, I. I almost couldn't believe it. I was like, there's no way. I've, you know, told John a few weeks ago, like, about what I'm looking for, and a few weeks later, he's like, boom. Find it.

Yeah.

And like, he did not. He got connected through someone else. And so that's why I say it was very serendipitous how it all came together. But I think you can see there was two different paths that we're kind of going to meet at some point.

Yeah.

So you're in Boston, Nick's here. What was the next step? You guys obviously kind of hit it off.

Yeah.

Where you thought, okay, we can work together. And you. You were probably clear, Nick, on what you needed. Right. You're. You were bringing the technical skills and the inventor's mindset to this thing, but the business side of it was maybe somewhere you needed some. A partner.

Yeah.

The business side thing was what, thankfully, John was. That was what? Notre Dame. There was actually a point where it was a mix toss between Purdue and Notre Dame. And I reached out. His name was Mott Hanley. He was actually on Shark Tank. He's kind of like John Henry for. For Purdue. And I spoke with. I spoke with both. I spoke with Mott beforehand. And he goes, you already did all that because Purdue is very engineering based. And he was like, you already done all the hard part. He goes, we. He goes. And he told me. He goes, I'm going to tell you to go with Notre Dame because they're more business focused. He goes, we focus on bringing the product to market. Goes, you already got that. Goes, go with Notre Dame. And so that was the. That was the weird, like, kind of funny, like, I'm fortunate to be a state. I had a choice between.

Yeah.

Yeah.

From a guy, two excellent universities who.

Yeah. From a guy who, like, went to trade school at Ivy Tech. Right. And I started sitting there, like, with phone calls, like, no name. Right.

I love that.

And yeah, like I said. And Adam, I.

Go ahead.

No, well, yeah, so Adam and you. Yeah, you hit it off. But you were in Boston. So, like, how.

What?

I didn't want to just, like this would be a whole narrative journey. But yeah. You guys started working together then.

Yeah, we. And so we're. So we're going to build a business advisory board. We're trying to build that. And then Notre Dame does. It's called a McCloskey event.

Yes.

And John was very adamant that we should do it. He was very adamant. He was, you need to do this event. And all my reading was investors don't like product based businesses. They don't like it. They're like, get lost. So my entire mindset was like, I'm not going to focus on any of these, like startup things because no one cares. Right? No one cares. No one wants them. I'm just going to ignore them. Right. I'm just ignore them. Just keep on plowing forward.

Yep.

And John was like, no, you need to do this. You need to start doing this. And that's where Adam and I really started meshing in was the McCloskey event. That was the thing kind of really hooked us together.

Yeah, yeah.

Was working on that because neither of I had any experience with doing pitch sex anything.

So the McCloskey competition, new venture competition for the audience is a competition sponsored by Notre Dame for entrepreneurs. And there's money involved.

Right.

There are prizes involved in that. And so you two threw your hat in the ring.

Yeah, yeah.

You as a student, did you? Because you as a student, right? Were you a student at the time? You must have come back and.

Yeah, this is my senior year in undergraduate.

He was still a senior.

Yeah, he was still senior.

Got it.

And I was brought on as community entrepreneur.

Yep.

Like I said. And I really meshed very well with that.

Yeah.

We both have a very much heavy, just grinded out mindset. We'll just sit there, don't care how long it takes, we're getting it done. And we, I was shocked. We. We made it all the way. So there's what, four ways to get to the actual finals? Or five.

Yeah, four or five.

There's four or five. But we made it all the way from the beginning to the final five, right? It's final five.

Yeah, yeah.

Final five. Yeah.

And I was there for your presentation.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And we, if they, they have a, they have a. They have a, like a showcase beforehand and for anyone. So people don't believe how strong this thing is. And so we brought an actual door. I think that's what I remember coming up. And what was kind of cool about that is we brought the entire door of those air things. I mean, the thing weighs like 7, 800 pounds all assembled. And I think you were, I was talking with you and there is one of the people from the cleanup staff was also there and I was explaining it to you and to her at the same time. And she goes, could I use this at my apartment at home? I'm like, yeah, you use this at apartment at home. No problem. Right. Because you could. And she was telling me. And so that was. I just remember that vividly because I think that might have been what was so too, I want to say shocking, but that. I think that's what really opened up your eyes to us was we're not just this weird ethereal idea. It was, oh, could I do this? Whatever? And I was like, oh, yeah, no, sure, no problem. And it was because I saw you're looking your eye when you like saw me interact with her and you're like, oh, wait, this is not just some ethereal idea. So we did that and that was. That's what really hooked anime together. And that was a really. Not the eye opening experience. But it was odd because like I said, I felt like the odd man out because I knew, like, so we didn't get first place. I think we. I think we could say the best. We got second place. Adam.

Yeah.

Would you say?

Yeah.

And I knew I was one of the first community entrepreneurs to ever win money from there.

I believe that's true.

Yeah.

And the reason, the way I found out was Nordame emailed me and they go, they go, you did great. This is awesome to be proud of. And they're like, but we have no idea how to pay you. And I made the joke. I was like, well, I take cash for larger bills and you know. But checks.

Yeah.

And so I had to become an official vendor of Notre Dame to actually.

In order for them to pay you.

Yeah, it was one of those funny like.

Yeah.

Because they always. The community pitch. The community. And so I was, I. I'm pretty confident. I'm like the most successful business prudential, when the McCloskey event coming around actually like, yeah. Like on community entrepreneur to getting that far.

So in your case, the pitch competition worked for you. Number one, you got some money out of it, which is great. But I think it sounds like maybe a bigger part of it was that it gave you two a chance to start working together. Yeah, yeah. Like a shared goal.

It really did. Yeah. That was.

You know, sometimes I occasionally have mixed feelings about pitch competitions because what a company or a startup really needs to be doing is figuring out their product and finding their customers. Yeah, right. And sometimes a pitch competition can be a distraction from that. Right, right. If you're spending all your time working on the perfect pitch deck. But I think in your case, it sounds like it had the added benefit of allowing you two to work together and get to know one another.

It definitely did. Like, that's definitely where we solidified our relationship. Because just for some context, that's primarily what I was working on. I was doing this after doing a dual degree and having three jobs. And so this was like, okay, I have extra time. Here's how I want to spend it. And so, like, I was very much brought on. Like Nick said, one, try and build an advisory board, get people who are knowledgeable and can help us and, like, think through a lot of the different pieces. And then two, take it through McCloskey. And so, like, that whole year was like, just us increasingly working together, spending more and more time together, and me becoming increasingly both more involved with Nick and the company, and then more emotionally attached to the problem at the same time.

Yeah, yeah.

If anyone ever gets bored and wants to watch it, it was a 2024 McCloskey event.

Animated, like five women in the audience, five ladies cry. I heard.

Yeah, that one. Yeah, I was up there. I was. I was looking. I'm like, you're making. You're making people cry out there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So the advisory board was another part of what you were working on. How did. Was that your idea? Was that an idea that came out of John Henry? Like, so you were sourcing folks who could give you advice on how to move forward with the idea?

Yeah.

Were you sourcing those folks from different areas of expertise?

Trying to. Yeah. Like, trying to get people who have sold into K12 before, even. Even if they're in the ed tech space where the majority of those Notre Dame related folks are trying to get people who've built companies before. It was really trying to, like, leverage Notre Dame's alumni network to. To get us the right group of people.

Yeah.

Which makes perfect sense.

Yeah.

So, Nick, you said something a little earlier about the housekeeper who saw the product and asked about your apartment. And that leads me to the question about your customers, because we had this conversation before the podcast started. Your original customers that you identified were schools and school shooting situations in particular. I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong about that, but that was. The original mindset was like, these are the folks who could adopt this product and benefit from it. I believe that since then and after many, many conversations with schools and other people, you have sort of pivoted a little bit your thinking on who could benefit from the product. Can you tell us a little bit about that and how did that process go?

Yeah, I'm happy to dive into it. So I. When I graduated from Notre Dame, I rolled straight into the esteem program, which is a master's in entrepreneurship and innovation. And there every student does a project, and usually with an external company, they sponsor the program, and a student links up with them. I really wanted to do door blockade.

You already had a project.

Yeah. Got increasingly more involved. Had gotten involved in a bigger status. And so I've essentially spent the past year talking with hundreds of different people, trying to see, like we said, where else can this work? I think schools is very much still our focus, so we're not moving away from that. I think what this past year has done is it's opened up our. It's broadened our horizons in the sense of. We've realized through stakeholder interviews that there's a bunch of different spaces where the same problem exists and the same very versatile device can actually add a lot of value. So it's not.

It.

It's a pivot in some senses, but, like, we still want to. We're still very driven on getting into schools. Like, schools is where we can. This was designed for schools, really.

Less of a pivot, in a sense, and more of a widening of the aperture of who could benefit from the product.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly.

Yeah, yeah.

The. And, you know, in the very beginning, it was because when a lot of people, a lot of inventors, they.

They.

Everyone tells you, solve your own problems and I'll solve someone else's problems. Don't solve your own, because your. Your own problem might not. That might not be that big a deal. Right. So solve other people's problems. If anyone's asking to sit there and think about making something. Make something. Solve someone else's problems.

Yeah.

And so I was so focused on schools and all the codes kind of also tend to go to hospitals and go to theaters and go to banks and then go. And so everything's spreading out, but if you're not looking out that way, you're not going to see it. Right.

Yeah.

And so, like I said with Adam, with phone interviews, talking with people, and a lot of it's been. We just were completely not knowing. We walked into Beacon Medical Group here in South Bend because someone, as Adam talked to the. The former CEO.

Former CEO Phil. Yeah.

He was like, I think the hospital might like this.

Okay.

And so we just went in. I know nothing about hospital besides, you go there and you're about to die. Right. That's like, you know only why I go to the hospital. Yeah. And so we walked in and I was like, we have. I'm like, I have no idea how to talk to you about this. We're just here to show you.

Yeah.

And we just showed them on the door. We did. We tend. That's kind of like our. I guess our best selling pitch is the fact that when we talk with people, we'll bring one of these devices in, we'll walk around, go, what store do you want to try it on? We'll pop it on that door and we'll use it right there.

Say, try to open it.

Yeah, try to open it. Yeah, exactly. And that just. That catches people. And we did on the door in the office there. And they were just flabbergasted, for lack of better terms. And they're like, this is something that we've been looking for. And it was like the light bulb, the bright bulb idea. You hear that? And we were like, holy cow, we really need to start. And like I said, we. I think, Adam, I make a. Making a joke. We have more sales than social media posts.

Yeah.

It's in the change though.

We're getting better, but we're also. Now we're in more. We're in government buildings, we're in theaters. Going to be in a bank here soon. We're like. And we're in schools. So starting off, we already have this like wide mix of just where we're going. And we're like, oh, okay. So now we're kind of broadening horizons, seeing where we can go.

It's applicable in other environments, outside of school environments.

Exactly.

And you're talking about demos, so let's not lose track of what we can do here. You have a demo right here on the table. Yeah, I know you held it up before. Can you show us?

Yeah. So this is the one I have. This is the one I have in my truck. So it's mildly lasered for our sample modification. Whatever.

Got it.

So what this does is imagine you have your door here.

Yep.

This is the lip of your door.

Right.

All doors have to have a gap. Internal doors have to have a gap beneath for H Vac.

Yep.

So he's applied to the door. There's a handle here. You press down it with your hand till you can't move it any further. And then once it's. You can't press down anywhere you step on it. What this does is pushes the door up into the frame. It pinches that door in place. It produces about 2,600 pounds of force.

Okay.

Upwards. So if you could, you could balance a Honda Civic on here and you could pick up a Honda Civic if you were to able to balance everything perfectly.

Right, right, right, right.

But it only takes £300 to stop the door from moving. So you're talking about multiple times more.

Sure, way more than you need. So I mean, it's just crushing tension. Yeah, just pushes the door.

If anyone's ever pulling rope and you're like, man, this one is sliding. If you take a 90 degree turn now, it's easier to stop. So all you're doing is adding tension to the. You know, it's like how cable bridges work. Right. There's under. Everything's on tension. So you're putting the door in tension.

Yeah, yeah.

I can understand the, the KISS acronym. Right. Like it's sort of simple in a way. Right. You put it in there, you crank it and it's easy enough to crank that a, A school teacher could do it or a hospital staff person. You don't need the strongest guy in the room to do it.

Actually, we, in our, in our website, there's several videos of a kindergartner using it. And so it, it, it's a, actually that's a 9.5 time weight multiplier. So however light you are, you can put 9.5 times worth of force on upward. So you can weigh 100 pounds and still put.

Yeah.

You know, so it's, that's where the, that's where the magic hits is you don't have. I'm kind of the worst person to show it because I'm not, I'm not the smallest individual.

Yeah.

And so as we doing some shows, we'll have like the smallest little lady come out and like, oh, come on, come up here and do whatever. And they go, oh, wow, it isn't that hard. And like.

Yep.

And that, that's what's kind of neat.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, great. Great. On the manufacturing side, so you've got customers now you're talking about going in different schools, banks or the theater. You mentioned a few other things. So I imagine at some point, maybe already you're not just doing this at night in your boss's shop. Or, or maybe you still are, but clearly there's going to be some limit to that eventually. What are the thoughts?

So we've. When I first started this, I'm, I'm. I didn't grow up with a lot of money. So for me, being able to, like, I'm not afraid to go in a scrap bin or a dumpster to find something. And so heavy equipment auctions tend to go underneath a lot of people's radars.

Okay.

And I have a lot of background tool and dial a lot you know, industrial maintenance.

Right.

And so I was able to buy the presses like that. I think if you look at my balance sheet of how much money I spent on all my equipment, It'd be like $230, but there's £14,000 worth of equipment.

Wow.

So it was a lot of finding the auction.

You got some good deals.

Oh, I got stuff for a dollar. I'm talking. I got things for like a dollar which way? And I had to. Not had to rebuild this stuff. Lots of stuff I had to rebuild.

Sure.

Then it was okay. So right now, if we hit our max and this without quitting our day job, this is. We do 300 a week.

Okay.

Upping any of our. So you can time that by 52. Right. And we're talking about some crazy numbers. When you start thinking about that and the relative of the price of the product. Right. You know, we. Everything's. Everything's made actually within Laporte County. Well, besides some, like, hardware, but all of it's actually made in America. We did that way in the very beginning. Just for.

I don't believe this is not a tariff move.

No, no, it wasn't a tariff move. No, this was. This was a. I as a tool dynamic, I've only worked with American steel. I've only done that because itar and other regulations and things like that. Like, I don't know. I don't do foreign imports. Not against it. But it's like, oh, I know this will work.

Yeah.

The casting house that can. That's casting a couple of these components. The main body here and this lock bar here. They said they could do 100,000amonth. They cast a hundred thousand a month. And I've done the math and I show. I have kind of the equipment list, the wish list. But the joke was there was one operation. If you hit the button every single time the button rotated, the machine got down to be $10,000 in revenue. Every single button switch, and It'd be every 13 minutes. That's the kind of wacky numbers we get at. Because when you're dealing with stuff that, you know, as a tool and die maker, if someone asks you to make 100,000 parts an hour, how are you making 100,000 parts an hour?

Yeah.

So is that.

That.

What do you think that this. You know, it strikes me we talked about tariffs and importing steel. Like, what is. What does what you're doing say about American manufacturing?

So I've been in the trade. I was the youngest in the trade for tool and die for the longest time, only the last couple of years. We have some younger blood. A lot of American manufacturing is very much stuck in the idea of I need to get the return on this machine as fast as possible and I need to spend as little money as possible to get that. And a lot of the world has gone, no, we need to think of this. Not a two year plan, but a 20 year plan, a 15 year plan. And a lot of America, we're up north. This is a still, this is, this is the Rust belt. And then around here it's the steel Mills and St. Joe county and Elkhart County. They'll talk about the RV industry. There's a lot of big, dirty, nasty machine shops. Right?

Long, long history of it.

They're dirty, they're dusty, they, they're hot. I, I've never worked in an air conditioned environment my entire life. And I feel like what happened was as the 90s hit, we decided to send everything out and what had to stay had to get really resourceful because everything else was just scraps. Right. It was the stuff that was too heavy, too miserable to send to Canada or to Mexico. And so what left the manufacturing is almost like a, you're almost like a starving person where you're willing to take anything on, but you can't really worry about your appearance because you're trying to make payroll.

Yeah, yeah.

So as we see it now, like I said, it's still tough. And the hardest thing is labor because how do you convince the kid who is smart enough to do this that hey, don't like forgo that office job, come here and work in this dirty whatever environment.

Yeah.

I mean that is probably a hard sell, right, for.

Yeah, really hard sell.

Kids growing up right now.

But.

So it does strike me though like you're in a way kind of a throwback, right? You're an inventor.

Yeah.

An inventor who created a product that needs to be built. And, and, and you've done it, you've taken it, you're building it. I mean you're. Do you ever see yourself that way? Like, like a throwback to 1910 or something like that? Where, where there was a lot of industrial innovation happening and product innovation happening that wasn't tech based per se. You know what I mean? It wasn't like a computer program.

I, I see myself in a bit of a, of a middle ground because as a tool and die maker, you still hit the old manual equipment.

Right.

I had to learn all the old manual machinery. But now in 2025, I have to also know how to program all the complicated CNC machines. Right. And so I've always found myself in the middle of it and I think that's where people have the wrong mindset of going, oh, I'm this or that. It's like, you know, when you have to put a lot of hats on, you have a lot of things on. So I never been like, oh, I'm the old school, whatever. I'm just, I gotta do what I gotta do to get the job done. I do feel like sometimes we talk to people, they don't understand the whole. They don't understand, you know, as you've been talking with people, they ask me, well, how can you make a hundred thousand a month? I'm like, I can explain it to you, but you don't have the background knowledge to understand why I'm telling you. Luckily, I think a lot of entrepreneurs, especially you want to make something, it's not expensive as you think it is. And the best thing to do is just call a place, several places, just ask, just ask how much does it cost to make this thing right? Or go to Ivy Tech or some of these things and go, I need a student who's half passionate about something. Have them design something for you. Right. Because anyone can build, design anything that needs to be built on a million dollar machine. That's easy to do, but you need a little bit of background going, how can I make this? With the same simplest tools possible. And with this, this is probably the most complicated part on this because this is machined out of a billet. Rest of this could be done with a drill press and a sand. And a sander.

Yeah, right.

So even though, yeah, I have access to all these crazy machines and whatever, it's like, no, no, no make so it can be around the drill press because if you're going to ran on the drill press, you make it more efficient.

It's kind of fascinating because I mean you, you understand that, but I think most of the population doesn't understand that, you know, like stuff just magically appears and people don't understand the process that goes on behind it and the design work that goes on behind it. And for you it's like crystal clear. You're like, it's simple. We do this, we do this, we do this, we can find the right people help us do it. You're bringing, I think, a really valuable mindset that a lot of people don't have or don't have the background or the skill set to understand.

Yeah, I, and don't get me Wrong. The. When I started my shop, it was a little bit before I started this idea. I was told, we don't do work for inventors, and we don't do work for, like, we don't do work for inventors. We don't do people that. I have an idea. Because the problem is they don't have money.

Yeah. Yeah.

And it's very. I think that's kind of the funny part. Talking about the what the old and the old. The old, the new. It was the first at the shop. He goes, you know. Because I learned how to. You know, my boss taught me how to quote. And he was never to work for inventors because they all they had to pay was hopes and dreams. And that doesn't pay the power bill. And so I think that's the funny. The really ironic thing of that was, like, here I am. Like, I probably won't make parts for. I might do it for, like, the love of doing it, but I couldn't charge you my hourly rate to make the parts for you because.

Right. You.

No one could afford it.

Right. Right.

And so then here I am, the guy who, like, don't do parts for inventor. Became the inventor.

Became the inventor. And actually are proving them wrong too. Right. Like, you're bringing more than hopes and dreams at this point. You're bringing actual customers.

I will still. If you start getting the manufacturing thing, it's beautiful around here. The best thing. Way to say it is if you have an idea this. Go to a. Go to your local machine shop and say, hey, this is my idea. Let them kind of run with it. But don't be afraid to go around some places too. But it's. Have the idea of, like, the thing you came up the first time because like I said, this is the fourth iteration. Right to what we got here. Now, I know the reiterations. Most people get stuck on the first one.

Yeah.

And it's the. What really brings up your R and D costs? Everybody. I'll look at the camera. Everybody. Is your. Is it. Oh, this is my idea. Well, this is not manufacturable. So what happens is this, this design. It sounds up. You get a humongous list where, like, how'd it cost, you know, a hundred thousand dollars to make this weird widget? Oh, after enough engineering consulting, whatever.

Yeah.

So I. I guess I saved a lot of money on that. But if anyone's out there, just kind of like, think about, like, just go, hey, I don't know how this is made. Like, talk to someone else. Also, if you Invent something. They're like, unless no one steals bad ideas. Only people steal good ideas. So if you have a good idea, you want to run with it. Like, don't be worried about someone stealing your idea right off hand. Just don't just kind of go with someone. The dude down the street ain't gonna take your idea. He just wants to pay his. He wants to pay his water bill.

Right, right, right. No, I think that's actually very good advice, because you do. In the world of entrepreneurship, it's. It's. I don't know if it's a common problem, but it's definitely an issue where people. They're afraid if they share what they're working on, it will be stolen. And the reality is that that almost never happens. And in fact, if you don't share it, your idea is probably going to die in the vine because it's sharing it that's going to give it some additional power and move it forward.

Yeah, I think that's kind of been our bit of our. I was pretty good about keeping it private off social media, so the very. But, like, people everywhere mishy shop, and that's where I think we're struggling at now as a business is now. How do we get it out there?

Sure.

That's where we've been really struggling. So my beginning, I wasn't worried about, oh, someone's gonna steal it. But I never put on Facebook. I never put on YouTube.

Well, marketing and promotion, that's a whole another.

That was where we're like, oh, we did a great job keeping it quiet. Now we're like, oh, no, it's too quiet.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

All right, before we go, I wanted to switch back to you, Adam, and you talked a lot about a sense of mission, a sense of purpose, and certainly, like, when you did the migrant program, at first glance, this is a manufactured product, but it does have a purpose behind it. Right.

Yeah.

Tell us how this is still giving you that sense that you're acting on social good while you're building a device.

I think it's about empowerment. This device empowers people to give themselves peace of mind, safety in what could be one of the worst events or days of their lives. It is very true. This is a manufacturing company. Like, on paper, that's what it looks like.

Yeah.

But the.

Yeah.

What our device can do in terms of how you can make people feel safe makes me feel really good intrinsically that I am working on something that's actually going to have a tangible, true impact on People's lives. And hopefully, like we always say, like, this is a device that we want you to have, but hope you never have to use.

Yeah.

And so, like, there's a. There's a bit of. There's another element to that. Like, hey, we want to give you this device to keep you safe, but also, I hope you, like, never have to use it.

Well, we all have devices like that in our homes, like a fire extinguisher. I hope I never have to use my fire extinguisher, but if I do, I really want it there.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so, like, you touched on, like, school shootings, unfortunately, show no sign of going away. Gun violence has increased a lot in this country recently, especially in the past, like, 10 or 15 years. And so we believe, like, we actually really believe, like, this is a device that can actually help a lot of different people. And as we've touched on, maybe people outside of skills, maybe it's businesses, maybe it's healthcare, maybe it's childcare centers, Maybe it's the freshman in her dorm. Maybe it's a female traveling solo or a male traveling solo. This has a lot of different uses, so we think there's a lot of different places we can take it and do a lot of good. Because that's what it's really all about. Like, that's. That's really what got Nick into this. That's really what got me into this. Like, coming from Notre Dame, they really touch on, like, being a force for good. Being a force for good. And the Esteem program, the model for that is fix things that matter. And so it's like, this is really taking all of the boxes that I would want it to take.

Fantastic. Guys, thank you so much for coming on today. I am very interested to hear where you go from here. Are you trying. Is there, like, a sales goal that you're getting, Trying to get to 50k in revenue or 100k in revenue? Like, where are you going from here?

Yeah, we're actually doing pretty good this year.

Yeah, we're doing pretty good this year. But, Yeah, I think 50k, 100k, all of the above. We're trying to get as much as possible. I think we've learned a lot in the past year about how to sell to complex organizations that have a lot of different stakeholders and a lot of different dynamics. And so with me going full time into this and come September 1st as, like, the first person working on this as the. Their day job, and we think there's a lot of places we can take in the next 12 months.

You guys are a real inspiration, honestly. Keep up the great work.

Appreciate it. Thank you.