Yay.

Welcome everybody.

Welcome back to the We Are Already Free podcast.

It is a pleasure to be with you here today.

And here's a question for you.

Do you ever feel stuck in patterns of self sabotage?

Knowing that you want to make positive shifts in your life, that you want to move forward, you want to grow and expand, but you still find yourself stuck in these repetitions of old limiting patterns that are destructive, that are addictive, that are harmful to you.

So many of us right now are waking up to this need for deeper healing, this need for real integration, for true wholeness.

But how do we do it?

How do we really get there?

In a landscape, in a society that seems ever more distracting, ever more addictive, ever more dopamine crazy?

How do we do it?

Well, thankfully you're in the right place because today's conversation will show, you, will teach you, will share with you how to break free from those limiting social, self sabotaging patterns, how to move beyond your addictive tendencies, those limitations you're experiencing, and to step into authentic power through the revolutionary teachings and sharings of our guest today, TJ Woodward.

TJ Woodward is a best selling author, inspirational speaker and revolutionary recovery expert who has helped countless people through his simple yet powerful TV teachings.

He's the author of multiple best selling books and he's also the head of conscious leadership at Reconstruction Unlimited as well as being a featured thought leader on wholehearted.org alongside Brene Brown, Marianne Williamson, Dr.

Gabor Mate and others.

He is also going to be a featured in the upcoming docu series Addiction Revealed which will be released by the end of 2024.

So that should flip potentially be out now.

I must check in with him about that.

He was also given the honor of being ordained as an agape Minister by Dr.

Michael Beckwith and was finally the founding minister of Agape Bay Area in Oakland which was the first satellite community of this international spiritual community.

So a rad dude basically is what I'm sharing with you right now.

So please do listen onto this podcast if you just wanting to shift those patterns, move into a different state of being.

And yeah, I'm just excited to see what comes up in this chat as always and if you're joining us live then welcome.

It's super rad to have you here and this is a very exciting time.

So thanks for being here and please enjoy.

We are already free here to help all of us highly sensitive misfits, conscious wanderers, seekers to reconnect to our power and our magic and our beauty in the world.

So let's do this thing.

When you hear the words we are already free, what comes up for you?

Acceptance.

Change.

The shift in awareness.

Human beings are so powerful.

There's so much more.

Everything is love behind it.

Breaking the chains of your own mind.

That which remains Nature getting out of the matrix.

We're sitting on the treasure and it's already unlocked.

We are already free.

You're free.

You are a walking man.

Have always been free.

You are always free.

Already free.

We are already free.

Welcome, welcome tj.

It is a pleasure to have you here and thank you for joining us on the we are Already Free podcast today.

I am so happy to be here.

I am looking forward to the conversation.

I'm as you're reading and talking and introducing the topic, I'm getting more and more excited about sharing my own journey about how I absolutely did not know I was free into a place of understanding that freedom is our birthright.

So I'm happy to be here with you.

Ah, thank you.

I mean you've preempted the, the way I love to generally start these conversations because reading your bio it might be easy to think like, well, this guy's just had it all sorted out and just, you know, he's just one of those lucky people who's just no.

Understands life and just gets it all easy.

And, and I imagine that there is a lot more to your story than that and I'd be very curious to know what, what was the, I guess the polar opposite.

What was it that the depths you needed to go to to move into the state of authentic expression that you now embody?

Well, obviously that's a very long answer, but I'm going to start with remembering when I was free, before I was unfree.

And the reason I start with that is I remember being a little like pre programmed human under 7 years old, filled with joy, filled with love, connection, openness, able to feel my feelings.

It's like everything that, that we seek in a spiritual practice or in recovery or going to therapy was innate for me.

And I think that's the human experience we come in as these whole and perfect beings.

At age 7, I had a profound experience of my heart closing.

At age 14, I found myself using drugs and alcohol as a way to escape from this existential crisis of feeling broken.

At age 21, I got sober and started my spiritual journey of returning to that place of wholeness.

So that's the very short answer for that question.

That's amazing.

And I wonder how many people listening right now have a similar timeline.

Of course the details being unique and distinct for each of us.

But what you just said, I could say a story like in, in the way you've said it as such a beautiful summary was like, I remember that open heart.

I remember that heart closing.

I remember starting to use substances, women, avoidance, to, to dull the pain.

And I remember making a choice of like, no, I, I came here for authenticity and I will do whatever it takes to show up for that.

So I mean I really deeply apprec.

Unfolding and so, so what is it?

I mean, is it the same thing for all of us that this, this, this so called self sabotage or these addictive tendencies like what are we trying to get away from?

What is the, what is the reason for this?

I guess rampant actually addiction and self sabotage that's in the world right now?

Well, I think on some level we, if it's true what you just said, that you resonate with that story and it has been true in 100 of the people that I work with in one variation or another, that we come into the world as these whole and beings and then life happens.

We're born on planet Earth, we, we experience war, we experience all the isms.

We experience the limitation that our parents teach us.

Right.

I remember going to the educational system and kind of feeling like I was being broken.

I love Don Miguel Ruiz calls it the domestication of the human.

And I love that because when we domesticate an animal, we used to call it breaking their spirit.

And that really is.

Was my experience at that moment when I was seven, with this really, you know, very undeveloped mind.

I made these huge decisions.

I'm not worthy, I'm not good enough, and I'm not lovable.

That became not only the narrative for my life, but that was the frequency.

And that is in my unconscious or subconscious.

I believed I was unworthy.

And of course I kept re Experiencing that.

And I think that that's, that's really what plagues humanity now.

We believe we're broken or damaged or limited.

And because of that belief, we walk around feeling that, believing that and vibrating in that frequency.

So the only way to actually heal this is to get down into that unconscious or subconscious.

Sure.

And I mean this is just resonating, which is one of my favorite terms, that idea of resonating with each other, the vibrational frequencies of all of us resonating together and definitely feeling a harmonizing as I listen to you and I, I'm curious around that turning point because for many, I mean in many ways I'm still navigating Aspects of that.

I still have aspects on myself that are in stuck in loops of addictive tendencies, especially when it relates to social media, which I'd love to talk about a little later.

But, but I'm curious about that moment of yours.

I think you said you were 21 when you were like, I'm gonna get sober, like what, what happened there?

Because that sounds like that's quite a big moment.

Well, I think the outer search kind of quit working, right.

So at 7, I decided I was broken.

I walked around feeling that way and life was really painful.

I was very closed off and I, when I discovered weed and alcohol that gave me that freedom or at least it was a sense of freedom that I had been seeking.

It was almost like, oh my gosh, it's like I can remember how it feels to be free.

And that just didn't keep working that way, right.

So this outer search for wholeness became something that was no longer serving me.

It was like I had my umbilical cord in my hand.

Please feed me.

Whether that's, you know, a relationship or looking good or shopping or sex, it doesn't matter what it is.

I believed I was broken and I wanted the world to bring me that freedom and that just.

It can't really sustainably work.

So there was this moment when I was 20 years old.

It wasn't, it wasn't my mind saying I want to take this spiritual journey toward freedom.

It was like, this is way too painful and I don't know what else to do.

And I was introduced to recovery at that time and that was the beginning for me of the unlearning process and the returning process to my own wholeness.

Just the very beginning.

It was a very multi year process and continues to be.

Right.

Like you said, there's no finish line.

Yeah, yeah, well said.

And it's always nice to have that reminder.

I have a tendency to, to think it's all or nothing.

You know, it's like I've gotta either get it all, I gotta be all perfect, or I'm all failing.

And there's a lovely a reminder and that an invitation to just like enjoy the process of unfolding that is sometimes feels like one step forward, ten steps back, then ten steps forward, then three steps back and.

And actually the, the key piece in here is being willing to take the next step no matter, no matter what it is that's unfolding externally or internally is being willing to get up again.

So I really appreciate that reflection.

And did you ever go, I mean like.

Because I imagine that you tried loads of modalities, as we all do.

And I'm wondering, because the kind of.

There are some.

I want to say the word mainstream, there could be another way to say that, but there are some ways that our society says to be.

Well, that to me, seem to be basically just dealing with symptoms.

And then there are some methods that deal with the root.

And there is a really big difference between those.

And I would just love to hear your experience, like, moving between them or have you always kind of.

I don't know.

My sense is that your path has been one that's deeply spiritual, and I'd love to talk more about that.

And.

And that goes deep into the roots of this experience.

But then I'm curious to hear, you know, did you ever go another route that was like, oh my gosh, no, this is not doing the thing?

Yeah, I was on.

I.

I love the way you're framing it because that has become the foundation for my work conscious recovery, because I see so many modalities, whether they're wellness modalities, recovery modalities, treatment modalities that are only focusing on the symptoms and behaviors.

And when I came into recovery, I was just so grateful to have a community.

I was so grateful to be.

Not be polluting my body with dressing.

There was a point, and it was around 18 months sober, where I actually found myself suicidal.

And the reason is exactly what you're speaking to.

I had worked on the symptoms, I had worked on the behaviors.

You know, I was showing up for work, I was building community.

But there was this deeper pain.

It was like this great ache that I was feeling suicidal and going to some and really trying to like, ask, what do I do with this?

And the paradigm at the time sounded something like this, don't worry about anything but not drinking.

Your life is a miracle.

Now go help someone else.

And it was this outer focus and that had served me well, but there was this deeper yearning, and I knew there was so much to be healed underneath the surface.

And I actually met a woman named Mary Helen who took me on a spiritual journey that.

That has lasted, you know, up until this moment.

A journey of.

Than treating.

So what is it that then you would recommend to someone out there?

Like, how.

How would someone at home.

I don't want to say, not necessarily copy isn't the word, but how would someone at home emulate or find inspiration from if they've been trying all the things, you know?

Well, I've done all the stuff I'm supposed to do, but there's this deep ache, there's this deep feeling of lack, this feeling of, of something that isn't, that something's missing.

And that's the curiosity here is how would someone like that, what is the question they might ask themselves or in what direction might they look to start finding that deeper, more sincere, more source oriented connection that they're looking for?

Well, it's such a great question because in my model, conscious recovery, and this will sound maybe unrelated to your question, but to me it's fundamental.

The foundational principle of conscious recovery is underneath all addictive behavior is an essential self that is starting with that place of wholeness, then we have the ability to start healing the underlying root causes.

And if I start with the fundamental, fundamental belief that I'm damaged or broken, doing that healing work can feel very overwhelming or daunting.

And I think that's where a lot of the recovery models or the treatment modes get to address the underlying root causes.

If I feel damaged or broken, unlovable and unworthy, of course, addressing the trauma and the disconnection and the shame, which to me are the three root causes of the addiction.

If we start with I came in the world, into the world as a whole and complete spiritual being, and that is the essence of who I am point, then I can say from this I can start to ask myself, what are the deeper root causes of the addiction or the addictive tendencies?

And again, we think of addiction as drugs and alcohol, but it's so many more things.

And we know in our culture right now one of the things we're addicted to is drama, right?

So we unplug from that, ask into our essential beingness, our whole, and then from there start to look at.

Okay, yeah, this is, this is super cool.

So this is an interesting one because it's one of the things that I notice a lot in myself is that when I am reaching for my phone, when I'm reaching for streaming, it comes from a discomfort.

There is first a discomfort.

There's something inside of myself that's like, oh, I'm having to suddenly experience this thing inside of me that I don't really want to experience.

So it'll be easier for me and everyone else if I just go and scroll or get on, you know, watch, stream A series, etc.

So in that moment, and I'm asking this selfishly, but I also imagine that there are people out there who are having that same experience at times.

What.

Is there a simple way that you could recommend that someone might be able to just like create a pattern Interrupt for themselves so that there's an actual option to go deeper and.

And safely start to shift that pattern in a way that's holistic and heal rather than trying to escape.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I think that the thing to bring into the conversation is you're already at a place where you're aware what you're doing.

Most people aren't even aware that scrolling is an automatic response.

Right.

So a wise person once said, there are three steps.

Awareness, awareness and awareness.

So as I reach for the phone, you have enough awareness to say, oh, there's something within me that feels something.

You know, whether that's out of sorts, disconnected, there's a little bit of an ache, and if I grab this phone, it will numb it for a moment.

Most people are just in an automatic unconscious response.

Right.

Whether that's scrolling or that's commenting or that's posting, we start by.

And I think the moment when I'm aware that I'm doing that, the question would be, what am I experiencing and what am I noticing?

And one of the things I ask myself or invite people to ask is what would I be feeling without the story?

So we don't go into a story of, well, I'm upset because of this.

My partner said this, or my boss did that, or, you know, I saw this on the news.

Right.

The President said something that, you know, it triggered me.

So I'm in my reactivities.

Pause, ask myself, what am I actually feeling?

And can I allow myself to move in and experience that sensation without going into a story of why I'm feeling it?

Feeling it.

Because when I'm in the story of why am I feeling it that's outside of me.

You triggered me.

That triggered me.

No, something got touched.

That's what we want to be curious about.

Yeah.

There's a very interesting perspective shift in what you just shared there.

It's moving from judgment into curiosity, from wrongness, into just allowing that it's not.

It's.

There's nothing wrong here but that this thing that's coming up is coming up is an invitation.

And I can either I can accept that invitation or not, but if I do that without judgment, I'm liberating the energy.

So, yeah, just feeling grateful for that.

That's a beautiful reflection.

Yeah.

One of my favorite quotes of all time is Krishnamurti.

He said, the highest form of human intelligence is to see ourself without judgment.

And we could shift that to like, the highest form of human intelligence is to be curious.

I wonder what's actually getting Touched here, I notice this reactivity within me.

If it's hysterical, it's historical, right?

Obviously, I'm not the first person to say that, but if I have a big reaction, also known as being triggered, we tend to think that person triggered me, which is why I don't use that word.

I say, what got activated, what wound got touched?

And I love what you're.

You're adding to that by this wound is not getting touched because there's something wrong here.

This wound is getting touched because it's wanting to heal.

And that doesn't mean I want to walk around trying to get wounded all the time.

But if I'm having a big reaction, that moment is the opportunity to either open up or close off.

And when I meet it with curiosity, rather than rightness and wrongness, there's something really valuable.

In other words, someone does or says something, I notice the reactivity.

I pause and say, ooh, something's getting touched.

How wonderful is this right to be curious about that?

Not that it feels great, but I think so many of us think this is bad or wrong.

I shouldn't be feeling this.

We go from blaming the other to blaming ourself, and then we're stuck in that sabotage.

When we open to curiosity, we can start to heal that and then it can happen instantaneously and it can also be a process.

Yeah, you're really speaking to exactly.

What we've been talking about is what is this self sabotage and how do we shift that?

And I'm hearing that that curiosity is like a very powerful, powerful unlock for that.

I actually.

And just.

You said so many wonderful things there that I want to respond to them.

There was one about triggers being, you know, this, this thing that, this word that's become a loaded word, excuse the pun, but I actually shared a poem about this recently on my Instagram where I said that when, when your whole being has become a trigger, like there's.

There's everything outside of yourself will become.

Will.

Will fire you off, basically.

And that there's no.

If you wait for the outside so called TR to stop, then it's never going to happen.

It's.

It doesn't work that way.

It works the other way.

It's inside out rather than outside in.

And so I just heard you really speaking so eloquently and beautifully to that which I really appreciate.

And, and actually what I'm finding a lot of success with now, and I'd love to hear your experience with this, if it's, if it's an area of modality you've explored at all.

But I've started doing somatic coaching.

It's a certification I'm currently working on something called Body Based Breakthrough.

And I'm finding it as someone who.

So part of my pattern is the sense that the old patterning is not enough.

And then.

So if I just do more, like if I push harder, more ice baths, more intensity, more punishment if I make a mistake, you know, like that, then.

Then I'll get through.

If the voice in my head is really mean and really intense, then surely I will eventually motivate myself to get through.

Which, of course, hasn't worked very well.

So.

So what, what's this?

Somatic practice is allowing me is actually to stay soft and to stay gentle.

And I'm finding with my clients, my coaching clients are just.

It's like the unlock that.

Because we have these amazing work that I do with my clients I love so much.

And then sometimes I notice there's a piece that just doesn't budge.

And the somatic work so far is budging that piece.

It's going into that part that is otherwise inaccessible and allowing these.

These curiosities and these deeper messages to come through without judgment.

So I would just love to hear your thoughts on that.

If that's an area that you explain.

Explore it all.

Yeah, I love what you're sharing because I'm guessing that people watching and listening now will relate to your journey.

Because that was true for me too, in some ways, because I felt broken or damaged.

My earlier spiritual journey was all about doing it right, finding the right practice, finding the right, you know, meditation practice, the right group, the right teacher, the right workshop.

And there was this external focus.

And there was a moment when I realized that I wasn't quite consciously aware that I was really being quite aggressive toward myself.

I needed to do it perfectly.

The deeper work is to realize what's in the body, as you're saying.

Bessel van der Kolk.

I love this quote.

He says trauma doesn't show up as a memory, it shows up as a reaction.

Right.

And that's from his book the Body Keeps the Score.

And that title alone allows us to know how many of us have been doing a deep tissue massage and suddenly there's emotion, right?

So it literally stored in the body.

So if we're only working with these things through our mind, which is why I'm always careful to say, yes, self sabotage is a narrative, it is a belief, it is an idea that we're holding, but that doesn't mean we fix it.

And I'm using that term consciously because at that level we would think there's something wrong here that needs to be fixed.

I need to change my thinking.

I remember at one point, it was.

This was in the 90s.

I was part of a spiritual community and we all wore rubber bands, and if we said anything that we thought was unconscious, we'd flick our wrist.

Oh, cancel.

Right, cancel.

That was a stage of evolution, and it served me well.

But then where I reached.

I reached this point where I wanted to be much more gentle with myself.

I wanted to start asking more gentle, loving questions.

I wonder what this wound is really about.

The key here.

And this can be a little road we can go down, potentially.

Most of us decided or absorbed things that have become the operating system of our life at a very early age.

We didn't even have the cognitive ability to understand.

In my case, at age 7, I'm unworthy and I'm unlovable.

Those weren't really thoughts because my brain wasn't even developed.

Those got concretized in the unconscious and became the frequency of my life.

So we don't heal it by changing our thoughts only that's a step.

There's this beautiful place where we start to look at caring for the younger self, starting to invite what didn't get felt.

In what way wasn't it safe to have my feelings?

And as I start to do that deeper work, I start to almost change the past because I start coming up with or having a different conclusion about myself in the world.

Well, thank you again.

I.

I just.

And I would like to definitely follow this path.

This is a beautiful path, and it's one that's been coming up for me a lot recently actually, in my own somatic practice.

I just, I.

I can actually see it in my journal from this very morning, where one of my most painful memories of myself at.

I think I must have been about 10 years old, maybe 11, which is relatively old for these kind of things because they.

They get imprinted pretty young.

But this was.

I think this was like the final straw piece.

And I won't go into details, it's not really important, but I was trying to help my dad with something and I didn't.

I got it wrong.

And his reaction to me was very strong and quite upset.

And I remember the feeling inside of my body that I didn't have words for, but was just, I'm done.

I am done.

I am never going to put myself in a position where I am at risk in this way again.

And I just went And.

And this morning that it came up in my somatic practice so naturally, and it came up with ease.

It wasn't like it.

You know, it wasn't a huge.

I've.

I've covered it a fair amount already in my journey, but it just came up as, like, I don't have to be like that.

I don't have to be like that with myself.

I don't have to be like that with others.

I can be.

And then what was amazing is that I remembered other ways that my dad was when he taught me to dive, when he taught me to drive, and how patient he was and calm and kind.

And I just actually made a new connection in my.

In my being.

That was like.

Yes, that was a part of how he showed up that one.

That moment and other moments like it.

But that wasn't all of him.

And he was also an incredible father.

And he also showed me incredible ways of showing up in the world.

And I got to, like, connect my adult self to that father.

And it was just such a beautiful moment.

So it's so interesting that you say that now, and I guess that's the next question, because at times, for me, it has felt very overwhelming.

How do I make space for this little Nathan when, number one, he feels very untrustworthy?

He feels very, like, lacking trust for adults and for the world out here.

So he wants to often stay locked away, hidden and quiet, so that he doesn't risk anything.

And then also, how do I speak to him in a way that he's going to respond to?

And how do I really embody trust for that little Nathan inside of myself?

And so I'm curious if you have any suggestions again for anyone listening or for myself or for any of us, to how do we open up that conversation with the little us in a way that's regenerative?

Well, I love this.

And to me, this is like the deepest work that we get to do, and that is this integration or reintegration.

Whether we call it self parenting or conscious awareness, this is the opportunity for the deeper healing.

Because again, these things happened at such a tender age that we absorbed and decided these monumental things with very limited information.

So the reason I started with that is we don't change it intellectually.

We change it emotionally and spiritually.

So many of us are focused on what happened.

I know in my 20s, I wanted to know exactly what happened.

And there was an idea that if I could figure out exactly what happened, then I'd be free.

But there was a point when I'm like, oh, now I know what happened, but I'm still not free.

It's sort of like when we think, if this person just apologizes, I can be free, but then they apologize and then we're like, but wait, I'm not free.

So the deeper work here, the inner child work, if you will, starts with rebuilding trust with our younger self.

What happened is less important.

What is more important is what I decided and absorbed.

So we start with realizing that at a very tender age, whether that's 3, 4, 5, 10, 12, we absorb this.

So to me, the safe place starts with open ended questions, right?

Starting with, what are you feeling?

And letting my younger self know you're safe now, it's okay for you to feel that and I'm here for you.

Sometimes the younger self is like, no, you're not.

You're not here for me.

You've abandoned me.

So we get to reintegrate.

And there's a concept in conscious recovery that very simple core false beliefs and brilliant strategies, right?

So we decide these things, we absorb these things at a very tender age.

It becomes our operating system.

And then we have brilliant strategies to manage them.

I had a little pushback on social media from someone.

Please do not call addiction a brilliant strategy.

How is that helping?

So I want to explain what I mean.

We find a way to manage the core false belief and however absurd they might be, they bring relief.

So they are brilliant at the time.

The deeper work here is, are these strategies still brilliant?

Most of us go into, how is it not serving me?

We want to start by, in what ways is it serving me?

What is the felt sense of that?

Right?

How has it helped me?

And really embrace the brilliance of it.

And then we go into, what are the benefits?

How has it not served me?

And we can get to a place where we can ask ourselves or our younger self, what do I really desire?

It's almost always love, freedom or connection.

Almost always.

I love that.

I mean, that makes it feel really accessible.

And you actually spoke to this, this piece I have struggled with at times, which is when I do connect to the little dude within, he's just like, no, I don't trust you, like, I'm not coming out.

Yeah, abandoned me almost more than the original experience.

Absolutely.

Yeah, that's.

I really appreciate that.

And, and look, if anyone's watching or listening to this live right now, I would just like to invite you to ask any questions in the comments that you have for tj.

We're going to take a little moment in, just a little moment to, to Open it up for that.

And I have seen at least one come in already, so I'll be sure to bring that up.

But, you know, I feel like you've actually covered so much of, you know, I don't want to overwhelm people with too many steps that they could or should take.

But based on this conversation that we've explored so far, and for someone who is listening right now, who's feeling that self sabotage, that pattern that just keeps repeating where it's just like, I know what I want to shift, but I just keep falling into that same loop of just sabotaging myself, of betraying myself.

Is there a tiny step, like something that just is so accessible?

It's like if someone wants to run a five mile, just the first step is just putting on your running shoes.

Right.

Like, start there and just see how that feels.

So is there that kind of a step for someone who's in that position right now that they could take away and take action on?

Yeah.

Pause and feel what's present.

See if you can be present with what you're experiencing without the story.

The way that I know my patterns of self sabotage is profoundly simple.

What are the patterns that keep repeating in my life?

And many of us have spent years or decades trying to change the externals, but we're going to unplug from that for a moment and we're going to go out of the rightness or the wrongness.

So when I find myself, this might be a very concrete step.

When I notice my mind saying there's something wrong or there's something bad or this is good in that concrete, you know, black and white thinking, I pause and I invite myself.

Rather than saying, what's wrong here?

I ask, what gets created when I.

What gets created when I believe I'm broken?

Where did this belief originate?

Some of us have that moment, like you did, dad said this and then I experienced this.

For others, we don't have an exact memory, but to unplug from what's happening.

Because if it were just about goals and crushing it and dominating and writing out in the vision board, we've all done it, right?

If it were just about that, we wouldn't have these issues.

So that's all great.

And the deeper dive is, where did this originate?

What age was I?

Where is it alive in my body?

What do I experience when I believe this?

And how do I hold myself in a place of tenderness?

When we can get to that, then we can do those inner child steps and in my workbook and a lot of people have different, you know, ways to work with inner child.

But the three phrases I use, I start by asking my younger self, what are you feeling?

Literally letting that younger self answer.

And then the three phrases are, it's okay to feel that way.

You're safe now, and I'm here for you.

And listen not to the voice of the inner child, but the.

That felt sense.

Like you said for me, when I started doing, it was like my.

My inner child was like, no, you're not here for me.

Why are you lying to me?

So then we say, I know I've abandoned you.

I'm learning how to take care of you now.

What are you feeling?

Right, so it's this process of going deeper.

Thank you.

Yeah, I love that.

I think that is a beautifully concrete step.

And I'm curious a question that comes up for me because I can imagine that you must just have so many stories.

And I think as.

As humans, we are so story oriented.

And so I'm wondering, obviously, respecting all privacy and all boundaries, etc.

But is there a story that you have that comes to mind of.

Of a transformation someone experienced that would seem almost miraculous and through one of these kind of processes?

And I just love to hear one of those stories.

Yeah, One of my favorite stories, you know, having worked in treatment full time for many years, I have many, many stories.

My passion now is helping healers heal and training clinicians.

And training is in air quotes because the training is actually, how can I be fully present with the person in front of me and be in the frequency of curiosity with them rather than thinking I have an an.

So the story is I was working full time in an addiction treatment program.

And a young woman, she was like 30, which is young to me now, 30 years old.

And she was in.

It was a very, very nice kind of bougie treatment program.

And she had a beautiful view in the sunken bathtub.

And if anyone's worked in treatment or been to treatment, you know that one thing that might happen is you get a knock on the door.

You need to move your room right now.

So the.

The tech knocked on her door and said, you have 10 minutes to move down into the basement room.

We have a new client coming that's getting this room.

And she went into explosive reactivity.

I was the person they would call in to meet with people when they were having these intense experiences.

And he came to me, this tech, and said, literally rolled his eyes.

She's being so entitled.

She won't do what I want.

She's upset.

And she wants to leave treatment.

Great.

My mantra when I'm walking toward a person, to sit and meet with them.

First of all, and this came from the Course in Miracles.

What she's upset about is not what she's upset about.

Right.

So there was something that got activated.

She's having this explosive response.

I don't know what it is, but I want to be curious about that.

The second thing is I anchor myself in spirit, and I say, I'm going to see the perfection within her, not this experience she's having.

And I'm going to look for that.

I'm going to hold that for her while she's talking.

So we sit down.

She's, you know, very angry, very upset, and I had to do a lot of healing.

My mother was a rager, so I've had to learn how to be present with anger and not, you know, let it activate me.

So there's so many layers.

I'm looking for the perfection in her, and I'm in my mind, I'm like, I wonder what this is.

I wonder what this is.

And I'm just holding curiosity.

20 minutes of yelling, kind of yelling and screaming and saying how she had to leave.

There was a moment, and I saw her just pause, and she broke down crying, and she said, I've never told another human, but I was sexually abused in the basement of my home.

So it wasn't.

It's when he knocked on the door loudly and said, you're going to the basement.

All of this got touched.

This is important because that's where her treatment could begin.

She didn't leave treatment.

We got her with her therapist.

We got her doing the deeper trauma work.

The moment.

The importance of the moment is if I was only focusing on her behavior, I would have maybe said, let's let her keep the room.

So because she's upset or she's triggered, so let's, you know, keep her safe in some way.

But true safety is allowing her to actually explore this.

I had no idea that's what it was.

But in my.

My commitment to curiosity, we got there together.

That is a very, very deeply touching story.

And you're actually giving me insights into some of the work that I'm doing without really.

I'm relatively new to this.

I've been.

I've been in this space now consciously, for four years, I think three, four years.

It's been a calling for a long time.

And I avoided that calling until I had a full burnout.

Dark night of the soul.

Like all the.

All the.

All the fun Things.

And we have to do a second show because I would love to tell my story of when I had the calling to be a spiritual teacher and my whole world collapsed.

We'll have to.

We'll have to come back to that, because most of it have that moment.

Yeah, I would love to hear that.

It would be nice to swap horror stories.

That's great.

I look forward to that.

And.

And, yeah, it's necessary.

It's part of it.

And.

And so, yeah, just hearing you speak to that.

Because sometimes I.

I'm still learning how to describe to people the work that we can do together.

Like when.

When I'm speaking to someone who's maybe interested in working with me or.

Or not.

Sure.

Are we on a discovery call?

And it's.

And they're like, so, but what's the actual kind of outcome?

Or how do you do it?

Like, what's the thing?

And it's like, how do I say, I'm just with you.

I just see you and I'm curious and I'm just with you.

And.

And.

And it's hard to tell someone that just that, like, within the first session.

So often that's when people crack open.

It's just being realizing, oh, my God, I am being seen and I am being heard.

And.

And that's it.

And it's like, here we go.

Open.

It all opens up.

So, yeah, thank you for that.

Yeah.

And.

And quantum mechanics is now measuring that.

Right.

And the measurement is the observer has a profound effect.

So if I'm pres.

If I'm sitting with you, but I'm truly not present, I'm either thinking about what I'm going to ask or I'm going into, like, a training that I did.

Oh, maybe this is the right modality.

Maybe I can ask this.

Maybe it's motivational interviewing.

Maybe if I'm in that, I'm not really present with you.

And so, in a way, our work can be profoundly simple and, dare I even say, easy.

Not only that, but it can be energizing.

So, you know, as I said earlier, my life's work now is training healers or being present with healers to do enough of our own healing so that we can be truly present because the change comes from within the other person.

We don't heal anyone.

I'm a presence, and I'm curious with them.

And quantum mechanics is now saying, if I'm looking for what's broken, we're going to see what's broken.

More if I'm only talking about symptoms and behaviors we're going to spend maybe 10 years on that.

If I'm looking for something much deeper and I'm just holding a space of curiosity, they have a higher probability that they're going to access that.

And as you said, sometimes in the first session, someone truly saw me.

I don't even necessarily truly see myself, but your modeling, that, for me creates a profound possibility.

That's so well said.

I've never heard it said like that before, and I just absolutely love that.

Well, I want to honor our time.

We're coming towards closing here, and I would just like to give you an opportunity to share, you know, what is the project or what is the thing that you are just most excited about right now that you'd love someone to.

To take with them after this?

And then we'll move into a little brief Q and A before we close.

Oh, perfect.

Yeah.

I'm working on a new project that I'm not announcing yet, but I'm really at the finish line with it.

And it really is.

I'll put it this way, it's creating a space, a literal space, in this case, for people who are healers of all types, whether that's text, counselors, clinicians, therapists, to come in and do deeper healing so that we can actually be more present for the people we work with.

I.

I've seen a lot of healers or clinicians being really burnt out, and I have a solution for that.

And that solution is that the energizing power of presence, our work can be energizing.

And when I tap into this deeper way of being with someone, I can hold so much more, and then the work can be energizing.

So.

So it's.

It's going to be announced soon, but I'm super excited about it.

Oh, beautiful.

Thank you for that.

So I do have one more question for you, but I want to get into the Q and A real quick just to kind of see what comes.

So far, we just have one question, but it's going to be going to be a fun one, and I'm curious around what your response to this is.

So if anyone is watching live and wants to ask a question, we're just going to take a few minutes for this, so don't delay.

So the question here was asked by Radio Salad Studios, which is such a great name on YouTube, saying, Does TJ have any spiritual base for his therapy or teachings?

Yeah.

So my path, when, as I said, when I came into Recovery, this was 1986, at roughly 1988, sometime I found myself suicidal.

As I said, I met this woman, Mary Helen, who took me on this incredible spiritual journey.

And the outer path looked very many different ways.

Went to India on a spiritual quest.

Spent some time with Amma in southern India at her ashram.

My, my teacher was a devotee of Sai Baba.

So that came in.

Loved Buddhism.

I went to Thailand and just fell in love with Buddhism.

And then in the States, I started attending Unity, which is a new thought spiritual community.

And that became my path for many, many years.

And then I actually, when I had my calling to become a spiritual teacher in 2004, 4, 3, 4, 5.

That's when everything fell apart.

We'll save that for another conversation.

But I actually went through five years of schooling at Unity Institute and then ultimately started my own spiritual community in 2012 and then at some point affiliated with Michael Beckwith at Agape.

So all of those, those different.

Those were the external paths, but all of them led to the internal.

So New Thought has been a foundation of my spiritual practice.

And if someone doesn't know what that is, there were in the late 1800s, the new thought movement was formed with the idea that we can change our thinking and change our life.

There's so much more to it.

But that, that's the found.

Those are the foundations of my spiritual journey.

Beautiful, thank you.

I really appreciate that.

And I.

We haven't had anything else come in so far.

I do hear Darkness retreats Africa.

Hello, if you're still watching, said that she so relates to this.

This is when we were sharing something earlier just around the.

The aspects of transformation and she was saying Tara Brach taught me this type of self care.

So beautiful to hear those.

Those teachings and those teachers also brought in.

And so the final question I have for you, as I do always, is when you hear we are already free, what comes up for you?

Yes, we are already free.

That's what comes up for me.

You know, I think everything that you and I have been talking about points to this because we come into the world absolutely free.

What is freedom?

Freedom is the ability to be me in this moment.

The effervescent self.

Right.

Deeply connected with our spiritual sense, able to feel our feelings, able to be present, create connection.

All of that is innate in the human experience.

So it's an interesting paradox.

Yes, I'm already free, but there's so many layers.

There are so many layers on top of that to prevent me from knowing that.

That's why to me, the journey is much less about learning and much more about unlearning.

I call it the great remembering.

The great remembering of who and what we truly are.

Beautiful.

Well tj, thank you again for your work and it's been such an honor and a privilege to sit with you today and just remember our freedom together and celebrate the path that we're all on.

And yeah, I just really appreciate you man.

And I look forward to reconnecting.

I look forward to having you back on and share, sharing that other story because that sounds like something that's worth getting out there some more as well.

And yeah, just really appreciate you, brother.

Thank you.

Thank you.

It's been truly, truly been an honor.

I appreciate it.

All right, gorgeous humans, that brings us to the end of today's episode with a wonderful guest, TJ Woodward.

Please do check him out.

I will put all his links in the show notes as always and you can also google him, etc.

And really just showing us how actually breaking free from self sabotage is simple.

Not easy, but simple.

And if we can remember that, that there is a part of us inside that is always free, that is always liberated, that child within that always wants to express authentically, where does it start?

It starts with opening that conversation.

So thank you to TJ for reminding us today how we can get started with that.

And of course I recommend you dive deeper into his work, find him online, follow him and sit at the feet of a guide.

It's one of the things that I pray for every day is to meet more guides.

And I say thank you to my guides, to those who walk the path a few steps ahead.

As Ramda said, we are all walking each other home and it's really important.

Who am I walking home with?

Who am I following home?

Because there are those who can help to make the path just a little easier by showing us the next step and the easing the path on the way.

So thank you to TJ for easing that for us.

And please take that first step you mentioned.

Start noticing when the reactions come up, when the feelings come up, when things come up.

Pause question, what is this about?

What is this related to?

What is this coming up for?

And start to ask those open, open questions.

And if you're like so many of us and have been challenged with the struggles of social media overuse, please do sign up for my 21 day dopamine detox challenge.

It is a very simple, very easy process to go through.

It's totally free.

And you will liberate yourself by making new choices around how you show up online, how you show up for the use of Internet, the use of streaming the use of social media, etc.

And it's @ alreadyfree me reset.

You can go there now or find it in the show notes and I wish you a beautiful journey.

It's really simple and really beautiful and people are having phenomenal results.

You can see some testimonials on the page I mentioned.

So that is all for now.

Thank you for being here.

Thank you one more time to the wonderful T.J.

woodward.

And as always, until next time, please remember we are already free.