For me, I like to invest. I I mean, it's no secret. I I like

to invest. Right? And I think that's where you really build wealth. Right? I think

pivoting is important, and taking some level of risk is also

important. That risk that you're taking is gonna pay off. I think I've always been

interested in making money and I, you

know, for me, it's really because I didn't really have much grown ups. Yeah. It

only mattered when post university I wanted to get a

Sony tablet, went to the shop, failed the credit check, and that

embarrassment kind of led me to okay. I said, you need to change your

way.

Hey, guys. I go by the name of Adrian Daniels. Welcome to the Sound of

Accra podcast. This is the show where we speak with top entrepreneurs,

creatives, founders from a Ghanaian background or interest

with the aim of leaving you behind a meaningful takeaways that you can apply

in your life, business and career. For today's show

notes, I'd like you to head over to

thesoundofaccra.com/ato. That's

thesoundofaccra.com/ato for

all of today's links, references, resources, and nuggets.

If you're watching YouTube, please hit the subscribe button, leave a

comment below, and let us know what you think of today's episode. A five star

review is very much appreciated if you're listening on Apple, Spotify,

and all the podcasting platforms. Alright, so I think that's housekeeping out the

way. Guys, look who's in the studio. Look who's in

the studio. Wow. Crazy. Ato from Savvy

Wallet. I'm sure you guys have been watching Savvy Wallet. Some of you may have

seen Savvy Wallet. You guys are thinking, he's not doing. What are you

doing on the show? He's not doing. But he went to Ghana.

He went to Ghana last was it last year you went to Ghana? It was

last year. August. Yeah. Time has flown by. No. Ato, thanks for coming on,

bro. Welcome, bro. It's a pleasure. You know? You know, we've been out I

know this has been Yeah. In the making for a while, but, I'm

glad to to come on your podcast because you came on mine. Absolutely. I had

to return the favour. I had to return the favour. I really did. But, of

course, nevertheless, you're my friend now. So I think we've formed a

relationship on the back of London Podcast Show. Not this year, but last year. Last

year is one. Yes. Yes. Yes. It has grown a lot. Right? Like, especially our

relationship. We talk a lot about, you know, how

the podcast space is changing, how we see ourselves in it.

And I think a lot has changed in two years.

I would say a lot has changed for me in this year. A lot has

changed. It has. You know? And I'm only just excited for more more in the

future as well. So Yeah. Has a lot has changed for you, especially when,

you know, that episode of you and Benedict is it Benedicta or Benedicta?

Benedicta. Yeah. When that went half a million views. I remember being

in Ghana, seeing I was like, what's up? What's going on here? What's going on

there? Is is is someone messing with the numbers? Is is someone manipulated the

numbers? Election fraud. What's happening? Election fraud.

What's going on? What's going on? But, guys, if you don't know, Atto, he's senior

tech consultant and is the host of Savvy Wallet podcast where he interviews the top

minds in business, finance, mindset, and more. We will leave a link

below in the description and in the show notes for more information about his

podcast. You can go watch, subscribe, listen to it, all of that good stuff.

Yes. So yes. So, of course, you may have heard we've met on we met

at the podcast show last year, the London podcast show, and then, of course, we've

gone to form a friendship. On top of that, Ata

went to Ghana. Ata, Ata, you know what? Tell me about your trip to Ghana.

I know you weren't there for too long, but I think but I'm I'm but

you've you've mentioned that you see a lot of potential Yeah. Out there,

and it's a place really that you feel you can thrive. Talk talk to me,

bro. Well, I think that yeah. You know what? Yeah. So I went to Ghana

last year, August, for my friend's, wedding. So I went to two places

in Ghana. So we got to our craft first, and we were

there for about, from memory, a week.

So we did, you know, we did a few kind of excursions. We did,

the tree tree what was it? Tree walk? Tree walk. Oh, okay.

You know, I don't like heights. Bark. Really? Yeah. I don't like heights. So that

was terrifying. Terrified you. It was and it was raining.

So surprised you can I'm surprised you persevered. Because some people would have checked. Some

people some people would have Some people would have tripped their chicken

out. Yeah. But, like, I mean, look. I'm with my wife. So, you know

You got you got me the match up. You got me the alpha male. You

gotta do it. Do you know what I mean? Because she's not scared of heights.

So I'm like, how am I looking like you're all kidding? And I'm like yeah.

I mean, I'm just like, you know, well, don't get too sick. My my ankles

were shaking, man. Like, something out like a cartoon. And, Yeah. But it was

it was very beautiful, like, you know. So landing at Accra,

we we we landed there. Okay. And, we stayed not

in the center of Accra, but we stayed a little bit on the outskirts. I

think it was, like, a maybe fifteen, twenty minute taxi. Right? That's not too bad.

Into Accra. So it was alright. We, you know, we went to

the shopping malls. What's the shopping mall called? What's the main one? Accra

mall? No. The other one. The South African one. South African one. Is that is

that not mall. South African shop. South African shop? It's a big

it's a big one. Oh my god. Oh, the shop was it ShopRite? Was it

games? ShopRite. Supermarket. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we yeah. Because,

so so we went to ShopRite. Right? And, I think that was my first

I like that. ShopRite. Right? You just that's what you just did. ShopRite. Right?

Yeah. So we went there. And that was it's quite cool because it's it's it's

like basically like an ASDA for here. So it's it's it's quite different, like, to

see something like that. But I think for me, Ghana, what I really liked about

it was that I felt very safe there. It was very safe.

People so friendly. Very absolutely friendly.

And, you know, I've gone to other places. I'm not gonna mention not even in

Africa. I've just mean just generally where people will ask you

for money. In Ghana, it never happened. And I was like, this is

crazy. Really? You never had someone approach you for money? Really? Lucky. No. No. No.

I think they just knew they just knew you weren't one of us, man. No.

Soon as I got out of the airports Really? They want they want money. They

want something. Can you give me some some something small? Yes. If you're in the

car, they might try and go. You know what? Maybe I was too, like

because you know the thing is, I travel a lot. So yeah.

Okay. You could kinda tell that, you know, I'm from The UK

or, you know, I don't live in Africa. But That's the whole thing. How to

blend in, though. That's the whole way. They smell money. We're just from The UK.

You know? They smell it. We're all black. So come on. They smell

it. I know how to blend in, man. Trust me. I'm like, look. Like, I

know how to blend in. I like blending in. I like, you know, enjoying the

culture. But, yeah, no. I just felt like it was it was very safe. And,

there's a lot of, you know, like, a lot to do. Like, well, from a

you know, in terms of clubs, partying, the buildings were amazing.

The architecture was amazing. Mhmm. Electricity was stable.

Do you know what I mean? Like You're lucky. Because now they're having issues. Is

it? Yeah. They're having issues now. Look. I mean, they got to

somewhere. Right? So they got to somewhere. So that tells me that you can kinda

get there. So I feel like that kind of infrastructure really

is it kind of enables you to be able to build off it. Like,

okay. So I I spoke to a few people there. Right? And they kinda say,

oh, like, you know, there's not a lot of opportunities and stuff like that. Mhmm.

But I feel like when things are so

difficult at a difficulty, I feel like that's when that's the best time for

opportunity. That's where you if there's a problem, figure out how to

solve it. Right? So for me, I'm like, okay. Well, you've got the infrastructure. There's

a stable electricity. Great Internet. You know, people are friendly.

Right? It's safe. To me, okay, that's the backbone of starting

something. Right? So why not think about a business that can solve some of the

problems of so so some of the what people were saying to me was, oh,

we can't, you know, there's not enough jobs. Okay. Create jobs. Right?

That's what I would that's how I would think. Right? I'm a very I'm a

optimistic person. Think about how can you create jobs.

Right? Like, if you think, okay. This sector's not working. Well,

lean into the sector. That's gonna be working. There's gonna be something somewhere, and

it's just about thinking about it. You know? So, yeah, I'm

very big on that. I'm very big on being optimistic. I'm very

big on if there's a problem, you're gonna solve it. So yeah. So I

think there's a lot of opportunity going on, and I really liked it. For me,

I was like, yeah. Like, I could definitely see myself living there. I can definitely

see myself, you know, setting up a business there. So yeah. Yeah.

Well, you've got an entrepreneur mindset because that's what you need to

thrive in Ghana. Because Ghana, when it comes to jobs, usually they give the

jobs to people that, that they want a favour, usually.

Or maybe it's hard for you to get a job. But if you're coming with

a mindset of creating jobs or creating your own business,

then you're more likely to thrive because if you're just going to rely on opportunities

being given to you in Ghana, then it's not always going to be the

case. So you have to think about opportunities that you can create because

of the way the country is. Yeah. So, yeah, I think you've got an

entrepreneurial mindset. Of course, if that comes from you, you know, being who you

are and running the podcast that you have, which we're gonna talk about in just

a moment. So, yeah, I think I can see you thriving in Ghana because you've

got the, you know, the the, determination, especially as you

quest Kakum National Park. Even though you're scared of heights, you have that

determination despite all the odds. If I'll go again, man. But, yeah, it's not

even just for me. I I think for even the people listening that are

in Ghana, I would say that, you know, if it's,

like, something where you feel like there's no opportunities, I would just say encourage

you to create those opportunities for yourself. You know? I think

it's, again, it's very important. I think if you see, like, if you think

about a lot of, like, entrepreneurs, that's what that's what they did. Right? Like,

they create opportunities out of almost nothing. So I was

watching, a film of Martha Stewart with my wife

yesterday on Netflix. Right? It's a it's a great, great, great film. And

it was about her ups and downs. Right? And, again, I don't wanna, like,

spoil it. But if

you if you saw so she kind of, she was one of

those kind of people that did a cooking show. Right? So if you say, okay.

Cooking show. How can you kind of evolve that into a

business? But she managed to. Right? She managed to evolve that

into magazines. She managed to, evolve

that into just more more than a show. Do you get what I'm trying to

say? Right? So I think these things are possible. It's just about

trying, and it's about thinking outside of the box. You know? Really, I think

it's very important to be able to do that and also being brave

when when other people are not really

people might not play in a certain space, that doesn't mean that there's no opportunity

there. Right? Like and I and I use my journey as that because, you know,

again, in podcasting, and I'm sure you you feel the same. Right? Like,

sometimes, just because somebody's not in that space doesn't mean that there's no opportunity. You

might just need to be the first. Right? And I think you have to be

brave to be the first. You have to be quite resilient. You know?

So yeah. Yeah. No. I think pivoting

is important, and taking some level of risk is also important.

You know? And being brave to be able to take that risk and

having being optimistic, as we've talked about before, that, you

know, that risk that you're taking is gonna pay off. I think that's really, really

important. Yeah. Let's let's go to the podcast as you

mentioned there. Let's let's double tap on the Atto. So,

your podcast, I know it focuses on business people, finance,

and mindset. And I've seen you pivot pivot your podcast a little

bit because now I can see now you're more focused on wealth creation,

finance, and then mindset. Whereas before, it was a little bit,

varied in terms of the kind of guests you're getting. So now I think you've

kind of got yourself in a good little niche, and now you as a result,

you're paying off from that. Yeah. Talk me through I want you to

talk me through some of the guests that you've had on. So

in terms of, like, the tips that some of the best tips that

you've got from guests in terms of, you know, these areas, you know, like

wealth creation, running a business, and then also personal

finance. Yeah. And then I think we'll probably go into some of your personal experience

just from you as a person, like, aside of the podcast.

Okay. Yeah. So, I think one of actually, it's

one of my most watched episodes, so with

Andrew. So he is the author of a book called

How to Own the World, and I had read that book before I

had interviewed him. Right? And, I thought, oh, you know what?

Let me reach out to him. And then the funny thing is

we had been speaking before we had done the podcast,

maybe three months, three, four months before we had that organized. Yeah. You

know? So, you know, behind the scenes, some some people don't see, like, what

it kind of takes to kinda get some of

these kind of interviews, but he's he's no. He's a great guy,

and it it was a great conversation. And, really, with him,

the premise of what we or the premise of what I wanted

to get across with that episode was

the fact that, you know, anybody can invest. Anybody can kinda

build wealth and that, actually, a lot of the people in The UK were

not building wealth. And I've got some stats I wanna talk about. Right? Please do.

Please do. And, really, what he

progress for us. Right? Before, it was smartphones. You know? Before that, it

was the Internet. You know? We we've had so many progresses in, you

know, human history, boats, planes, for example. And he's

saying that by getting involved in that, you're able

to take a share of the wealth. Right? Because as as, you know, as we

progress and we build all these products and services, right, they are making money. So

why not take why not be involved in that? And a lot of people are

are missing out on that. I would say, you know, in my stats, right, it's

it's about 9090%, ninety six %, actually, of

people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm missing out on that. Right? So wealth. Wow.

It's, you know, they're missing out on being able to build

wealth, and it's it's much more easier than it was before.

In the past, it was, you know, you had to know

somebody. Right? You had to know a stockbroker. They'll make the call. Now we have

apps. You can you can, you know, you can invest from as little as as

£1. So, really, the advice from him was you can,

again, you could invest very small, $10.15,

£20 per month, and then that will grow over time. And, yes, maybe

that's not a lot right now. But as your wage increases,

you're able to add you're able to invest more. So, actually, maybe

in year one, you're investing £10 a month. Maybe in year five, you're it's a

thousand because your your income has gone up over that.

And by doing that, you're also able to,

you know, take advantage of compounding, right, which really takes

effect, you know, over a long period, of

of of time. Mhmm. So, so that was the main

message with with with Andrew. And how you kind of do that, how you kind

of capture human progress, as he was saying, is

you own the world. That's what his book's about, how to own the world. So

and there's various ways of how you can, own the world, from an investment

point of view. So those are things like global funds. Oh, it's great. It's

it's great because it's such it's it's a truth. It's a truth. When you're

investing in things like global index funds, global ETFs,

and stuff like that, so they're they're called exchange, traded funds,

you are yeah. You're essentially, You know, you're

essentially, owning part of, you know, the world economy

growth. So if the world is if the economy global economy is growing by

2%, you are taking part in that in that growth. And that's

how you how you kinda think about it over the long term. So, you

know, it's it it yeah. It's for me, investing is one of my favorite

parts of personal finance, and I really advocate for it. Again,

because not that many people invest. They're very, you know,

getting shot. I think I said I said 96. Right? You did. Yeah. You did.

I said 96%. Let me let me actually let me actually double clarify.

That is actually, you know what? No. No. 94%. So it's not it's not

far. So 6% of the population are investing.

So, basically, in in The UK, we have, so what we

have is individual savings account. Right? So these are basically

accounts where you essentially, you

don't get taxed on your profits or your interest. Right? You

don't get taxed on it. And you have a threshold every tax year.

So you can put into these accounts about 20,000 every tax year.

And, a lot of people ain't taking advantage of it. So in

total in The UK so The UK population about 68,000,000.

20 two million people in The UK have an

ISA, one of these individual savings accounts. So it means about 60%

of people are Not taking advantage of them. Might

be paying tax on their savings. They are not taking

advantage of, you know, investing potentially because if they don't have

a stocks in shares ISA, then it's likely they're not potentially not

investing. And then within that within those that

22,000,000, right, it's about

3,900,000 hold a stocks and shares ISA. Right? So that's

about 6% of the population, which, in my opinion, that's

poor. That's very bad. Six percent of people,

you're telling me, are investing in stocks and shares

ISA out of The UK. So what's the other 94% of people doing? Do

you think it's due to lack of education? Yeah. Definitely. Wow. Definitely. Wow. Wow.

Wow. Definitely. Well, I'm we're happy that podcast like yours exists.

Yes. I mean, we need to close the gap because if you if you think

about a lot of you know, we talk, and I I wanna try to talk

more about it on a podcast, but we talk about, you know, the

wealth gap and all these things. The wealth gap is because of that, of investing.

Right? So I saw something like, I hope you

don't mind, but, the

you know, right now, the election just happened. Mhmm. Trump's just happened. And I literally

saw an article where it says, it was

something along the lines of, supporters of Trump

wealthy supporters of Trump. Their their net worth has increased

by x billions. Right? And that net worth being increased by x

billions is because they invested in the stock market. That's why.

Right? So this is how this is how the wealth gap happens. If you are

not investing, right, and the wealthiest are investing

Yeah. You're missing out. There's you cannot it's very hard to

beat that. It's very hard to beat because they're not having to work harder. They

they they're still making an income in a way where

in terms of their their businesses generate income, they're working for the income,

but then some of their other income is working for itself. So it's very

hard to you can't beat something that's automated.

Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's how you have to kinda see it. So that's

why the wealth gap keeps on getting bigger because of the lack of financial

literacy and because people aren't investing. They're not taking the opportunity to invest

in the stock market. So, yeah, that was one of the tips from from Andrew.

That's what I, you know, that's what I've really been advocating really for.

So That's some great tips in terms of wealth creation and

personal finance. Mhmm. Really do appreciate that. Yeah. I

think it's, it's an interesting one because I think there is

a lot of people who aren't really getting educated, and there's a

lot of people who probably don't know where to start and think that it's

rocket science to to invest or to build wealth or

even things like personal finance. I think some people just aren't good at it or

they just don't have access to the to the education. Mhmm. There's lack of financial,

education out there, but I think podcasts like yours are really

important to help people Thank become aware of all of this. And I think

it's really I think, you know, this is why finance, podcasts

are really, taken off because I think everyone's becoming more

conscious of spending their money, investing, and what's happening in the economy.

Mhmm. And they wanna get more out of it. Yeah. I think we can now

see that people wanna live certain lifestyles, and wealth creation and

personal finances is key to that. Yeah. Cool. Now, I mean, those are really good

examples. Thanks for that. We'll probably come back, get more from your personal

experience. I've got more people. Don't worry. I was I know that lots of people.

We'll we'll we'll come back to that. Let's let's let's take a little diversion. Mhmm.

Let's go to you. So Mhmm. What is it that prompted you to

start this podcast? Like, what and what what is it

regarding those three areas, wealth, personal finance, and

running a business Yeah. Prompting you to start this podcast? Tell me about a bit

about that journey. Yeah. So for me, so I left uni

with a little bit of debt. Mhmm. It wasn't a crazy

amount. You know? I always tell this story to to guests that come on the

podcast. But, so I left with about £500, you

know, overdraft debt. Okay. What happened was

that during my time at university, I used the

£500. I didn't

keep the account active, so they closed it the account. Right? So I'm

keeping, the long story short. So they they they closed the

account, and, because, basically, I was breaking the terms and conditions.

I was supposed to put my student loan in there. I was supposed to keep

the account active. I wasn't doing that. So they say, therefore, we're gonna

close the account, and now you're in default. Wow. They really understand what

that meant at the time you're a student. You don't really care. Yeah. Funny thing

is, the funny parallel was I was working at a phone

shop as well Yeah. Where I was dealing with people with credit, but not from

a point of view like I understood, like, what your credit score was. I just

knew that, okay. If you can't get a phone, you got bad credit. If you

can, you got good credit. Yeah. But for me, because credit at that

point didn't really matter I know. Right? Student. How's

that? Okay. What do I need to know this for? Right? Yeah. It only

mattered when post university, I wanted to get a Sony

tablet, went to the shop, failed

the credit check, and that embarrassment kind of led me to okay. That's

what you need to change your way. But, funnily enough, I was already

following, like, money related content. So at that time, there was no

Instagram pages, of course. There was no YouTube channels talking about this. It was

The Motley Fool. I subscribed to Motley Fool for some reason. I think I've always

been interested in making money, and I

you know, for me, it's really because I didn't really have much growing up. So

I think for me, I was always there was always that interest of, you know,

I wanna make money. So Motley Fool and,

Money Saving Expert, actually, I was signed up when it was called Martin's Money. Yeah.

I signed up. I'm one of the early people. Wow. Everybody now is that money

saving extra. I was when it was Martin's Money. Yeah. So I've

I've been signed up to to, Martin for a long

time. And, yeah, I just picked up tips here and there. So, you know, how

to better save, you know, how to kind of improve your

credit score. And, really, I focused on, paying off

the, the debt repayment plan. Basically, I was putting a repay

repayment plan for that £500 overdraft. Mhmm. So I focused on repaying that. It

did take me long. I think it took me a few years. I wasn't paying

that much Okay. Of it. And then I set myself a

goal of I wanna, buy a property. Right? Mhmm. So I saved

up enough deposit. I think it took me, like, six, seven

years to do that. Mhmm. Bought a property. And then for me, that was a

real $1.80 as, okay, your guy that came

from you know, you were a little bit of debt, poor credit, and now

you've able to manage to save enough, you know, deposit

Yeah. For, you know, property, and you're quite good in terms of

managing your your money. So at that point, I was

like, okay. I wanna start a side hustle. And for me, for some

reason, teaching people about personal finance just kept sticking out.

I wrote a list of it, like, selling things online. But teaching people about

personal finance really stuck out to me. Yeah. So I decided, you know what? Let

me, create a YouTube channel.

That was that's that was the inception of Savvy Wallet. I had loads of

names, but everybody's like, yeah. Savvy Wallet is dope. That's the one. That's the one.

Okay. Cool. We're gonna go with Savvy Wallet. And I almost wasn't gonna

post my first video, but I remember my friends at work. I was working at

KPMG at this point. Mhmm. I just remember them saying to me, no. You gotta

do it. You gotta do it. Like, it's a good idea. Do it. Do it.

And, yeah, we posted posted my first, it's a five minute

video, but that took me hours. I was sweating. Wow. I

was wearing a turtleneck. Oh my god. I was so nervous. Like, it was

yeah. I was mad nervous. I was so nervous. It was it was crazy. But,

yeah, that was that was the beginning of Saudi wallet Wow. To be honest. You

you just you have, like, your peers or your work colleagues saying, do it. Do

it. Do it. And then you eventually did it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I wanted

to do it, and then I almost backed out. You know when you got a

lot of energy to do something? Mhmm. But when it comes to actually execute,

that's where people really struggle executing. So I'm

fortunate that I had that support around me,

of people telling me to to do it. You know? My friends, my wife, their

you know, family. Like, do it. Go out. Why not do it? Right? It's important.

It does. So I remember when I dropped the first episodes of The Sound of

a Crown, January 2020, in a Ghanaian community platform.

The feedback I got gave me the momentum to go to episode two and

so on and so forth. So I think it's really, really, really, really important.

Yeah. You know, that you have people behind you that are encouraging you to

go ahead with whatever it is that you're trying to do. I agree. I think

I think you definitely definitely need that support. You

definitely need you know what it is. Right? I think getting started I

know it's a cliche, but it's true. Because once you get

started, it's just momentum taking you. There are two

okay. If I'm I'm gonna be very honest. From a podcasting point of

view, there are two let me call them kind of pitfalls,

things that you gotta kinda be aware of. First is I

think it can be a bit tough getting started.

Like, you you got a buzzer. I wanna start a podcast, and, you know, you

have a lot of energy towards it. But then when it comes to doing the

first episode, that's your first sort of, oh, am I really sure?

What if it goes wrong? What's the people? Because that that that was all the

thoughts I had in in my head. Right? Like, was it people that like it?

Oh, I don't wanna put myself on the Internet. Yeah. All of these kind of

things, all of these negative thoughts. That's the first one that you have to overcome.

The second one you have to overcome is after all the

enthusiasm dies. Because once you get over that past, you're mad. It's like, oh,

yeah. You're two, three, four. And then when it

now turns into this is what you have to consistently do on

whatever cadence it is, whether it's one week, two weeks, a

year no. Sorry. A year. Sorry. A month or however whatever

cadence you're doing biweekly. When it needs to get into that process

of doing that, that's the second hurdle you need to really

get past because that's where it's that's where it's really tough. Right? Yeah.

Because, again, there's gonna be some weeks you're

not motivated. And at that point, motivation,

for me, is not important. It's like, for for

you, it's getting into the mind frame of

it's it's gotta be done. For me, I don't I'd say to people, I don't

need to be motivated. It's coming out Monday. That's what I'd say to people. Yeah.

It's coming out. Come rain or shine. It's a week. It's a week. It's a

week. It's a week. It's a week. It's a week. It's a week. It's a

week. It's a week. It's a week. It's a week. It's a week

locked in. People are expecting it. That's my duty.

Right? People show up for me, so I will show up for them. Right? Mhmm.

And do you know what I mean? Do you know what the hardest part of

that was? Right? What's the hardest part for you? The hardest part was when it

when I was first starting, when I was getting, like, five

people listening. But you know what? Yeah. I had to get myself out of

that mindset very quick where I was like, even if it's five

people, that's still five people listening to you It is. That decided that

they wanna give up their day and time. Do you know what I mean? Like

Yeah. You shouldn't think, oh, yeah. Okay. When it's a hundred,

then I'm gonna decide to touch up because that's no. That's the wrong attitude.

You won't do that. Right? You do it you do it when it's one. You

do it when it's two. You do it when it's hundred. That's how it is.

You're building the habits. If you know, you're not gonna just switch it on and

be like, okay. Now it's gonna be a hundred. Right? It doesn't it doesn't work

like that. And, also, you will never get to a hundred because you didn't put

in the right habits. You didn't put in the right attitudes. You didn't put in

the right processes. So you would never get to a hundred anyway. Right? If you

were if it was sporadic. Right? If you were doing, let's say, one episode a

year Yeah. You gotta get to a hundred listeners? Yeah. You know, immediately? No.

So I think all of these things are, like, steps. I think you have to

kinda see them steps. I'm sorry. I've kind of got on a tangent, but I

just I just wanted to kind of say that because I'm I think I'm quite

because of the experiences I've gone through, I can kind of I haven't

talked so much about it. I can kinda say, okay. I know what it takes,

but I also want people to be prepared for

yes. This stuff is fun, is exciting, but there are gonna be times where you're

just gonna have to be able to go over the hurdle and get yourself into

a frame of mind where you're like, this needs to be done.

Whether I like it or not, it needs to be done. That's how you have

to think. It's not like, oh, I'm not feeling it today, so I'm not doing

it. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I totally agree. I mean, when it comes

to podcasting, and I think I think some of these principles that you've just

shared, they can be applied to lots of different things. So whether it's wealth

creation, wealth creation, running a

business, or personal finance, There's steps to this. Yeah. And

there's patience required, and there's longevity required. Mhmm. And I say

your podcasting, for example, that's that's one example. It's

not a sprint. It's a marathon. Yeah. You have to if you if

you're seeing it as a sprint is, you know, relying on

enthusiasm from other people to cheer you on. Yeah. But once you start

losing energy, are you gonna continue to run? Are you gonna continue to persist

to the finish line? Or are you gonna just walk away because you haven't

seen, you know, the views or the values that you want? So I totally

agree. I totally agree. And, you know, congrats to you. I know Thank you. I

think maybe some months back, you did the episode talking about your hundredth episode

and lessons that you've learned through doing your hundredth

episodes. And I think it's really important for people that want to maybe

start podcasts, whether that whether they wanna use that as a vehicle for

wealth creation or, you know, running a business or whatever it is, these

tips that you shared are really, really, really important. Honestly, they're really

important. Thank you. Yeah. I wanna kind of

continue on, and I wanna discuss your

personal experiences in terms of

building wealth Mhmm. And, you know,

personal finance. Like, your personal tips. And then we'll probably kind

of come back to some of the guests that you've you've interviewed. Could you share

some of your personal because I know so far you've you've spoken about ETFs. You've

spoken about, stocks and things like that. Are there

any other personal from your personal experience, tips that you wanna give to the

audience in terms of personal finance? I think you mentioned I think you've spoken about

one. Yeah. You know where I'm I'm going a little bit more? And I'm

gonna be talking a bit more with, like, therapists, psychotherapists,

psychologists, about this. I think it's really I think

it's understanding who you are and what kind of person you are, I think,

in regards to money. I think you have to

understand how you kind of feel around that.

Because, for example, I could say to, you know, I could say to you right

now, you know, do budget,

I don't know, eat beans and toast every day, and you're

like, no. That's I can't do that. Right?

So I would say I think you have to understand who you are, what

kind of person you are. Right? Like, figure out a high level.

Is it easy for you to budget? Is it easy for you to be a

spender? Figure out for me, I was a spender. Right? So I knew because

I'm a spender, I I need to kind of put in guardrails

to prevent me from spending. So what one of those

guardrails, for example, is, okay, I put a certain amount of money in my account.

The rest goes into a savings account. Yeah. Or it goes into

another bank, for example. Right? So let's say I have two banks. Right?

Maybe I've bank a is where my salary goes

in. Bank b is where, like, maybe my spending money goes for the month.

So it's about thinking about who you are and then putting in the potential

kind of guardrail. So, yeah, for me, again, that was one of the spending kind

of things that I kinda did.

Yeah. I I I do I've got loads of tips that of things I wanna

say, but I'm just I'm what I wanna do is I wanna be mindful that,

again, personal finance is personal. Right? So Mhmm. I always wanna

say to people, whenever I'm saying what I'm saying, you also gotta figure out what

works for you and what doesn't. Because it it doesn't work holistically for everybody.

Right? So for example, I speak to somebody two

days ago. Right? And they were like to me, I'm not doing that budget

lifestyle. Like, yeah. You know what? I'm gonna work my job, and I'm gonna have

a business because I like the lifestyle. When when I say they're not

saying that they're gonna budget, they will they do budget,

but they they're saying that they don't wanna lower their expenses. So because they

don't wanna lower their expenses, they just they'd rather just make more money.

Right? So figure out, are you that type of person? Are you the type of

person that, you know what? I like that. I like that. I like that stuff.

But I'm willing to work way more. I'm willing to have

a side hustle. I'm willing to to do whatever Yeah. To finance that

and more. Right? I think the most important thing is that, you know, you

always do have a surplus. Right? I think that's, like, a high level. You need

to always have a surplus because that surplus is what's gonna enable you

to to build wealth. Right? So for me, right, on months

where it's not hectic and I'm not traveling for weddings

or, you know, holidays and stuff like that, for me, I like

to invest. I I mean, it's no secret. I I like to invest. Right?

And I think that's where you really build wealth. Right? I think there's

there's there's two sort of avenues where you build wealth. Right? It's really if you're

not somebody who wants to be an entrepreneur, then your avenue is gonna be in

a stock market. Right? Stock market or property, for example,

crypto, if you're if you're risky. Those are gonna be your avenues in

terms of building wealth if you don't wanna be an entrepreneur. And you're, like, you're

happy, you know, at nine to five. But you need to ensure that there's enough

surplus that you can use, right,

to invest in these in these things. Right? Now if

it's if you wanna create wealth, not the stock market, not

the, property route, then, yeah, it's gotta be entrepreneur. Right? That's

another route for you to potentially create wealth. I I technically, I'm kinda

doing both. Right? I've, you know, I've got my nine to five. I've got

my business in in terms of the podcast, and I'm still investing. So I'm

doing both. Right? And, you

know, I think you could do both. I think both is good because then it

means you accelerate, right, as well. Right? You got the one that's a bit more

long term. Maybe that takes care of you, I don't know, between 40 and

60. And then maybe the wealth you rapidly create now,

you know, takes you up to 40. I don't know. You have to kinda figure

that out for for for yourself. So I think really, again, it's really

understanding who you are. And then from that, always making,

ensuring that you understand how to kinda manage your finances.

Right? I think it's very important. People don't like the word budget.

There's there's loads of different ways you can call it. There's have to be a

budget. You can call it a plan. You can call it

whatever you want. I think what's important is is

that you have an eye on what's coming in and what's going out,

and you make sure there's a surplus for you to put that

to work. And, you know, what's crazy is the surplus also does have to be

put into the stock market. It could also be used to start a business.

Right? You know? Or used to quit your job to start a business.

Right? So the doing that

just gives you the flexibility. That's what you have to see. Having a surplus gives

you the flexibility. You have to see in that kind of in that kind of

way. So, yeah, for me, it's really mindset knowing who you are. You

know, if I'm if I was to number it, I think really understand who you

are. You're a spender? Are you naturally a saver? Right? Are you doing these

things of do you have visibility of your finances? If you don't, okay,

get visibility of your finances. Okay. Cool. You've got visibility of your

finances. Are you, you know, do you have a surplus? Right? Are

you making more than you're spending? Cool. Okay. What you doing in

the surplus? Right? And that's how I think if you structure it in that way,

you're gonna you're gonna be able to to kind of build wealth. And that's what

that's how I think think about it. Obviously, there are other things you can do.

There's loads of things. We've got pensions as well that I would

say. And I'll briefly mention it because when I was young, I

didn't really, take it seriously. But a lot of companies these days are

doing matches. Company matches. So that's another a

pension is wealth, by the way. I mean, the the government. I can't say too

much because I haven't read it in there. But the government are gonna start going

after people's pensions because you can also pass that on as

well. It is wealth. So if a company is saying they will match up to

5% of your your salary, that's

5% they're giving you for free. So look out

for a lot of these free things. A lot of things I did. Right? Right?

And then, again, now now the more I'm doing it, I remember. I just took

advantage of all the free money that was out there. So when I say for

my deposit, lifetime ISA, I took advantage of that. It was I got

an extra $3. That's free money. Yeah. Why not? Right? Who

does all the free money? So I was taking advantage of all of these things.

I lived in a housing association building, which gave

20% off. Mhmm. I just was using the

system. You have to use the system, but, also, right,

the system won't tell you about these things. So nobody this this, it was

intermediate rent. Nobody told me about it. I found it by accident. I was like,

oh my my god. This is great. Accent. Okay. Used that. I was like, yeah.

Well, 20% off the private rent. Okay. Cool. I can afford to live

on my own. It's a bit cheaper than what it would be normal. Okay.

I wanna say for for mortgage deposit. Okay. Free money here. So, yeah, I mean,

so I think it's it's taken advantage of that pension. You know? Got my employer

paying into my pension. So it's it's taken advantage of all of these things, I

think, as well. It's important. I mean, these are more than fantastic tips.

These are great tips for at least even a beginner.

Honestly, these are fantastic. Thanks for sharing this, Atul. And,

I think all of these all of these tips, I think, for someone

to take them on is really gonna do a lot for them. Yeah. I hope

so. Yeah. Yeah. But I think I also wanna mention that, of course, you're not

a financial adviser? I'm not. Yes. I'm not a

financial adviser. Let's make sure that so this is no advice.

This is, I wouldn't even say guidance. This is us just

talking. Yeah. We're just talking. Exactly. I would always say do your own

research, especially when it comes to, you know, whether it's investing,

pensions, accounts, all of that stuff. Always do your own research. That's why I say

personal finance is personal. Just understand, again, at high level,

who you are, and then use

podcasts like this to guide you,

to find your way, but always make sure it's personalized to you. This is

more information. This is information you're talking about. So it's no different to,

like, if I saw, if I wanted to invest in a global fund, and it

had the fact they normally have a fact sheet, and it tells you, okay. This

global fund's invest in this, this, this, and that.

You know? That's what this is. This is just pure information.

Mhmm. You're not telling to act on it. You kind of just kinda use it

to figure out what you need to do. That's fantastic. Honestly.

Wow. I think there's a lot of people can take from that. And I think

some of the the books and some of the things that you mentioned, we will

try and link it down, in the description. So you could guys can go check

out some of this stuff and, of course, this podcast. Mhmm. I wanna

kind of go go through maybe one of the guests that you've had on that

you've learned something from. Is there is there one that you can share? Yeah. You

know what? I would say I could share all a 45. If any of my

guests are listening We wish we can. If any of my guests are listening, I

appreciate you all. You know? I appreciate you all. And,

this right me showing this is not a favoritism. I just wanna make that clear

that they've all been they've all been great. Right? Yeah. I I'm just

maybe it's recency biased because, you know, it's easier for me to think of the

most recent ones. But, actually, you know what? I'll I'll I'll speak about somebody who's

actually gone in, Franklin. His his episode was brilliant. Right?

He was. Yeah. And

he what I really liked about that conversation, what I kind

of learned, and I think what many people say that they kind of learned from

that conversation Mhmm. Is I think what he was trying to come what he was

trying to get across was that, you know, if you want money, it is out

there. Right? That's that's exactly what he was saying in in the episode.

Right? And, really, for you to get that, you just need to make sure that

you're there in the arena where that money is circling.

Right? So it's all it's always thinking about being okay.

Is this is this a sector or career or,

you know, that has that has

money in it, that is abundant with money? That's how you kinda have to think

about it. And, also, you don't necessarily need to be at the top

of the the the ladder. What he was saying basically is that if you think

about any kind of industry, any kind of sector, people at the top of those

sectors are wealthy, like, crazy amount.

Okay. For example, right, like, McDonald's. Right? A lot of people are, oh, I ain't

gonna work at McDonald's. Right? But the CEO of McDonald's is

probably making millions. Absolutely. Right? Absolutely.

Exactly. Right? So money's out there. Right?

At the end of the day, right, it's it's about thinking about what

sector you're in, where are you on on that ladder? And you don't

necessarily need to be at the top because even the people at the middle if

it's if it's a if it's a sector where there's a lot of money, let's

say, for example, like AI cybersecurity, even if you're mid level, you could be getting

6 figures for sure. Mhmm. For sure. For sure. For for example,

I'm I I I work in tech. Right? As I said, I was tech consultant.

You did. Yeah. So in technology, software engineers, yeah, a lot of them get six

figures. Hundred 50, hundred 40 Yeah. A year. Do you know what I

mean? Yeah. You know, some of them can get more if we include, like, where

you have stock options and stuff like that. Mhmm. So it's about being in

and that's just from a nine to five point of view, not even a business.

It's just about being in the arena. If you really want money, it's

out there, basically. So that's what I kind of learned from him,

thinking a lot about that and trying to it's almost

like cutting loose ends. If the if this arena is

dry of money, let's let's leave that. Let's go to arena,

like technology, AI, you know, something maybe green, you know,

green energy in the future is probably gonna be Sustainability. You know, sustainability.

That's probably gonna be huge amounts of money. Right? That's that's how

you have to kind of think and position yourself, whether it's a

business or whether, it's a nine to five. The other thing that we spoke

about that I I think is very important for people to to

hear is about main maintaining a certain

level. So, for example, a lot of people wanna be

millionaires. Right? But let's say you had a million in your account.

Cool. Yeah. You're a millionaire, but you're not gonna live a millionaire

lifestyle because if you live the millionaire lifestyle, you'll be broken a year.

Absolutely. Right? So It's all relative. Exactly. So a lot of

people don't think about this. They think about the end goal, but they don't think

about the other side of how do you

actually man what actual instead of thinking about

the the just a number, think about the

lifestyle. Yeah. What lifestyle do you want?

Okay. I want a I don't know. 2 thou

this is sound great. I want a $5 a month lifestyle

where that in terms of expenses. Right? Yeah. Okay.

You want to be able to, let's say, sustain that without any issues.

Let's say five to ten years. Again, no no financial advice. I'm just giving just

numbers out here as an example. Right? Let's say that's something you wanna

be able to sustain over five, ten years. Right? Mhmm. How

much do you need to sustain it? That's how you should be thinking. True.

Not the other way around of I just want some random figure of 10,000,000. Because

it's likely when you get to the million, okay. Let me buy the

500 k k house or 600 k house. Depends on where you live in London.

Some house, say a million. True. You might just buy it, and you've got nothing.

It's gone. Oh, I want the expensive car. And then before you know it, oh,

damn. You know what happens? Engineer it, don't you? Exactly. A lot of

people don't think of the other side. Side. It's always the I need to get

there. Okay? When you get there let's say we gave you a million now. What's

the lifestyle like? Oh, you're gonna increase that lifestyle, or are you gonna

maintain that lifestyle? Live a tech care life lifestyle. A million. They're gonna

try and live a million lifestyle a million. That's what happens. Yeah. That's it's

foolishness. I mean, I just had a millionaire sit in your seat Yeah. Not not

too long ago. And when you when you speak to him,

when you see the lifestyle he lives, he doesn't look like he's blowing that money.

He's look like he's very savvy, no no pun intended, of your podcast, with his

money. You know? So I think it really does come

down to the mindset. Yeah. Because that's one thing he talk about, the

mindset that, you know, you can get to a certain amount of money, but

you have to have the mindset to be able to manage and leverage it

Exactly. And not just to blow it and spend it. Exactly. Exactly. It's very important.

It's very, very important. Very, very important indeed. I do agree with you. Now this

has been fantastic. There's a lot of tips that you've given to our audience,

and I think they can get a lot from this. I wanna

discuss, before we wrap up, I wanna discuss some

myths that people have because I I remember watching your

appearance on Penny's to Palace podcast. Okay. Yes. And they were

discussing some myths. Okay. So could you tell us what I don't remember the myths,

though. What are the only myths that you that you know that people have

about investing or personal finance? Are there any myths that you have in your mind?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I think people think that you have to be

rich to invest. You can invest for £1, so you don't need to. I think

people have that. I

think people think that because before,

when you used to invest, you did have to have a certain amount. But now

with the, you know, advent of apps out there, you know,

has brought the, you know, the, I'll say, the entry

criteria down. So Mhmm. You don't no longer need a lot of money to invest.

You can start investing from, as little as £1. Again,

in terms of investing, a lot of people see it

as,

let's say, maybe a scam or it's risky. Yes. There's an

element of risk in investing. Mhmm. But if you're

investing in something that's well diversified, especially if

you're a beginner. Right? Mhmm. Again, there's lots of literature around this. We

talked about how to earn the world global index funds. If you're investing in

something like that as as a beginner, low cost,

it's automated, and you do it over the long term when we say long term,

we don't mean a year. We mean minimum five years, ideally, ten,

fifteen years. When you do it over that time, it's unlikely

you'll lose money. Actually, as you invest

longer, the likelihood of you losing money

is kind of reduces in a way. Right? Again, let me

caveat this by I'm not talking about just individual stocks that's different. I'm

talking about just generally if you were to invest in the global economy.

The global economy has grown over time. Right? Yes. It's

gone down, but overall, it's increased. We've,

you know, in terms of our GDP, it's it's it's increased

over the years. So, yeah, people have that myth, as well.

Budgeting, again, call it whatever you want. You can call it a plan.

Let's say planning. People think planning means that you you live

a restrictive lifestyle. It's not gonna be fun.

It's not going to be exciting. That's not true. Having a

plan just means you have an understanding. That's how you have to see.

It's an understanding of what comes in, what comes out. And the

reason why you wanna have that understanding is I'll give you an

example, actually. And I was I was talking to somebody about this

yesterday. I think it's great. If anybody steals it, it came from me. Because this

is a real story. Go on. So I sold my car. I had a Renault

Clio, right, at university. Mhmm. I got it in cash.

Yeah. The person gave it to me in a

bag. It was about £800 in a

bag. Yeah. Right? Accepted it. Whatever.

I got home. I put it up in a cupboard, left it

there. And then whenever I went out, I would just take out from

it. If I wanted to go out, eat, I would just take out from it.

However, I never knew how much was left. I was just

taken out. Right? Until one day, I went there. Oh, it's

empty. That's how you have to see planet. It's exactly

like that. Right? Yeah. If you don't have any visibility

of what's you probably know what's coming in. But if you don't have any

visibility of what's coming out, you could just be in serious

debt. You'd just be zero, and you don't know why. Right? That's how you have

to see use that analogy to understand why it's important. Now if

I had maybe every week, I said to myself, okay, Ato.

Every week, you gotta check or every day, let's say, every day, you gotta check

how much is left. Maybe I would have reduced my spending. Maybe I would have

been like, actually, I'm not going out tonight. Or maybe I should put

this in a bank. There would have been an intervention. Right? I think when you

have the visibility, there's an intervention. Without that, there was no I just I

just kept on drawing until it was empty. Right? So Yeah. So that's the

analogy that, yeah, I would like to use to paint that picture of why you

need to be able to plan your finances because it really will allow

you to intervene when you need to. Absolutely. I think, you know, having a

idea of a cash flow forecast, you know, your profit

loss, whatever it is, just the basics, balance sheet. I think just

having those basics. Mhmm. Not necessarily say you have to have a business, but

just approaching it in that way. Mhmm. You can be more savvy about how you

go about using your money, saving your money, and spending your money Exactly. And investing

your money as well. Ato it's been a fantastic conversation. Thank you.

Enjoyed it. Yeah. Yeah. I've enjoyed it too. It's been great. Finally

having finally had you on the on the podcast. Any final

any final tips you wanna give to the audience, a book that you wanna

recommend and any announcements, please go ahead and where people can connect with

you. Yeah. Sure. I would just say to people listening to this,

money can be overwhelming. Personal finance can be overwhelming. But just take

it slow. Just take it in baby steps. That that's how I started. I I

took it in baby steps. You don't have to try and learn

everything straight away. I would say try to learn the basics.

So understand how to plan your finances in terms of, you

know, budgeting. Again, you don't have to use the word budgeting. Find a word that's

favorable for you. Set a date. So a lot of

people have had come on the podcast and say, like, have a money date, you

know, with your with your money. It's up to you if you wanna do that

or not. Right? But just set something where you're

able to do it consistently. So if it's if it's once a month, then

that's okay for you. If you feel like you spend too much, maybe you wanna

do it once a week. And then see if you could do that with somebody

you trust that can hold you accountable where you can both kinda do

it. The it's not easy. Right? You know, talking about money is not easy. I'm

very comfortable. So Yeah. Yeah. I also wanna just caveat. Although I'm I'm

comfortable, I also understand it's a very difficult conversation to have with people. It's

very because it's very personal. Right? Money, for some reason, is very

Yeah. Personal with with with people. So,

so it's it's, I understand that.

Right? I definitely understand that. So I would say just take it very slow. Understand

the basics. You know? First, you know, how to budget. Okay. You got

your surplus. Okay. Figure out how to, you know, save every

month. Right? And and things like that. And then once you're quite comfortable with

that, okay, let's start investing, but maybe we invest very little, maybe just

£10 a month. You're very comfortable with that. You're very comfortable with your

education. Then you kind of move. So think of it like steps

of a ladder, you know, very, very similar to, like, money ladder, which is actually

a a great book that I would say that you should definitely, serve from Franklin

Asante. You should definitely check that out. What link that below? Check out definitely

How to Own the World. That's also very, very great

book. Mhmm. You know, teaches you about investing and how to own the

world as well. So, yeah, I would just say baby steps. That's

that's my that's that's my tip. If people wanna,

obviously, you know, check out a podcast, they can find me, on YouTube,

Spotify, Apple, Savvy Wallet podcast. Mhmm. Or if you just type Savvy

Wallet, you you should be able to find it. Ato, thank you so much. Welcome.

You've been a great guest. Thank you. So there you have it, guys. Ato from

the Savvy wallet podcast. We'll leave all the links in the description

below or head over to the sound of accra podcast dot come slash ato.

That's for all of the tips, nuggets, links, and

references from today's show. And that's it for today's episode

guys, we'll catch you in the next one. Thank you so much for watching. Take

care. Bye bye.