Foreign the Hoop Heads podcast is brought to you by Head Start Basketball.

A lot of that confidence comes from my experience as a head coach at the high school level and haven't been around really good head coaches my entire life.

I know what it looks like, know what it feels like, but now having that experience certainly gives me that confidence.

Tysor Anderson is a men's basketball assistant coach at Wofford College, having joined the staff in June of 2022.

Anderson spent the previous three seasons at Jacksonville State University.

Prior to JSU, Tysor was a head coach at the high school level.

He served as head coach at Atlanta's South Gwinnett high school from 2016 to 2018 before taking the head coaching job at Holy spirit Prep in 2018.

Anderson coached future NBA first overall pick Anthony Edwards of the Minnesota Timberwolves while at HSP in the collegiate Ranks, Anderson spent two seasons as an assistant coach.

His 2011-2012 season was spent at South Georgia State College and he served in the same capacity at the University of North Georgia during the 2015-16 season.

In between those stops, Anderson served as a Peace Corps volunteer in Cambodia from 2012 to 2014.

Anderson is a 2010 graduate of Georgia Tech, where he received his degree in Social Science, Technology and Culture and also earned a certificate in Business Management.

As a walk on for the Yellowjackets, Anderson lettered for three seasons and served one season as a student assistant under head coach Paul Hewitt.

Anderson is the grandson of legendary hall of Fame college basketball coach Charles Lefty Drazell, who retired in 2003 after 41 years as a head coach at Davidson, Maryland, James Madison and Georgia State.

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You'll want to take some notes as you listen to this episode with Tyson Anderson, men's basketball assistant coach at Wofford College.

Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast.

It's Mike Clenzing here without my co host Jason Sunkel tonight, but I am pleased to be joined by Tycer Anderson, men's basketball assistant coach at Wofford College.

Ty, welcome to the Hoop Headspod.

Hey Mike, thanks for having me, man.

Excited to have you on.

Looking forward to diving into all of the interesting things that you've been able to do in your career.

Let's start by going back in time to when you were a kid.

Tell me about some of your first experiences with the game of basketball.

Know you have a relative that a lot of people probably will know the name as we get into the discussion.

But just how'd you get introduced to the game of basketball?

What do you remember about it when you were young?

I, I've, I've been around it my entire life.

I mean, I'm one of what, 5 of of people in my family who have been college basketball coaches.

And so I, I'm, I, when most kids I think were growing up dreaming about playing in the NBA, I, I was dreaming from an early age about coaching.

And my, one of my earliest memories is I was seven years old and went on a road trip with granddad and one of his, one of his James Madison teams and I, you know, stayed with him in the hotel, sat on the end of the bench, cheered my little heart out and uh, it went to pregame meals and all that.

And I, I, it is one of my, honestly one of my earliest memories and I, that's what, that's when I can kind of pinpoint when I decided I wanted to, to be a coach.

For those who don't know, Ty's grandfather is Lefty Dr.

Zell, long time Maryland coach and as he said, also at James Madison and a couple other stops along the way.

But when you think about, and it's interesting when I heard you tell that story and just thinking about the fact that, hey, a Lot of kids dream about going to the NBA and I was dreaming about being a coach.

I always find that.

And this is something that I learned through the course of doing.

However many interviews we've done here on.

The hoopets podcast that usually coaches fall into one or two categories.

You have a guy like yourself who grows up and they're 6, 7, 8, 9 years old and they're drawing plays on a napkin, or they're coaching their teammates while they're playing and they kind of think the game already as a coach, they know that that's a direction.

Maybe they don't consciously say, hey, I'm eight years old and I know I want to be a basketball coach, but they kind of have in the back of their mind that coaching is where they want to end up.

And then you have the other guys who just are players, players, players.

They're thinking about playing and then all of a sudden their playing career is over, whether it's in high school or in college or if they're lucky enough to play professionally.

And they look around and they're like, oh man, like what?

The game, the game's being taken away from me now.

What do I do?

How do I get back?

How do I stay in the game?

And then they go to coaching that way.

So clearly you were somebody from an early age that thought coaching is where I want to be.

Was your grandfather the main influence in that?

Or was there somebody else amongst your family members that kind of was pushing you in that direction or not necessarily pushing you to be a coach, but just gave you that opportunity?

Yeah, listen, if anything, I think they did their best to push me away from it.

No, you're right.

It wasn't a.

Coaching was never a consolation prize for me.

I, I was a, I was a good high school player, but not a great player.

And even when, when it came down to my decision to, for, for college, I chose to go be a walk on at Georgia Tech versus, you know, some opportunities that I had to go and play somewhere because with, with that in mind, one in one, the coach.

But yeah, it was, it was granddad and, and my uncle Chuck who was his assistant at James Madison when I was little.

And so like our family vacations at, you know, at Granddad's beach house was always with, with them, you know, taking recruiting calls and, and then, you know, having me and my brother and my cousins out on the beach, you know, running sprints and doing push up contests and yeah, man, it's, it's hard to, it's, it's Hard for me to put into words how, just how big of a figure he was in my life.

I mean, he was like a deity.

And I just looked up to him so much.

I, I wanted more, probably even more so than wanting to be a coach.

I just wanted to be him.

So what was it about the coaching life, about what you saw him doing?

Was there one or two specific things that when you think back to that time, you're like, man, the fact that he gets to do that is really cool and someday I want to be able to do that.

Was it games?

Was it being around players?

Was it just the, the atmosphere?

What was it about his aura or just what he got to do every day that got you excited?

Yeah, I think so.

I think, I think a couple things.

Like, I think one, watching him on the sidelines, I, I felt was like watching, you know, I just watched the Maestro movie the other day.

It was like watching Leonard Bernstein in front of his, his, his orchestra.

Like, I felt like I was watching something.

He had so much passion and it was just, I mean, yeah, even thinking about it now, it's hard for me to put it.

I'm, I'm kind of a words guy and it's hard for me to put it into words, but I just loved watching him in action and, and then as I got older and spent time going to some of his practices, like when I was really little, going to, you know, his basketball camps and yeah, it was, it was him in action and then, and then I think on that, on that first road trip I went on when I was really little, was watching him with his players and as I've gotten older and like a really deep appreciation for how he treated his players and how his players really revered him and respected him and, and how important he was, he was to them.

What do you think it was about his personality and who he was as a human being that obviously he had a big impact on you.

Right.

And you wanting to get into the profession and just be around him, be around what he did every day.

And I'm guessing that although obviously his players, when you're talking about seven year old you on a road trip versus his 18, 19, 20 year old players, there's still something about him that allows him to build that kind of relationship that draws people in.

Can you put your finger on what it was about him that really drew you in and maybe drew his players in and built those kinds of relationships that you're describing?

Yeah, I mean, Mike, if you, if you, if you're trying to substitute you know, a couple of decades of therapy here, then, then we can, we can do that.

Because, yeah, I mean, as I've, as I've gotten older and, and, and more self aware and, and yeah, there was, I think there was a part of it that wanted to have that relationship that I saw him have with, with his players.

And you know, granddad put a ton of time into his, his work and his work was his life and his players were his life.

And that was.

So, yeah, I mean, I think there's, I think there's probably some part of that that like, I, I, I wanted, I wanted to, to be, to be that close to him.

And you know, don't, don't get me wrong, like, it, it wasn't, it wasn't like total neglect of his family, but, but there was definitely.

I saw a different dude, you know, in how he interacted with his team than, than, you know, exactly what I was getting.

And I think, I think part of me wanted that.

All right, so let me go back to your decision to go to Georgia Tech with the idea that coaching was a direction that you wanted to go versus maybe some opportunities to play at a slightly lower level.

What do you remember about the conversations maybe you had with family members, conversations in your own head about, hey, what do I want to do, how I want to go about this?

What was the plan?

What was your mindset as you made that decision and you enrolled at Georgia Tech?

Honestly, it wasn't much of a, it wasn't much.

Everybody around me, all my, my family knew what, what my goals were and what I wanted to do.

So it wasn't like, you know, when anybody trying to talk me out of was when that, when that opportunity arose, because I was trying to decide between, you know, a couple of, you know, division twos and, and, you know, some lower level division ones.

And.

But when that opportunity came, and it came from a guy who is a good friend of mine to this day, Justin Young, who is at BYU now with his brother, which is the coolest thing ever.

But at the time he was running these rivals camps and I was at one of them as a rising senior, and just kind of struck up a conversation with him and told him, you know, who I was and what I really wanted out of this.

And he had a relationship with somebody on staff, Pete Zaharis, who was on staff at Georgia Tech at the time and knew that they were looking for walk ons.

And he called him and said, hey, I think I have somebody that might be pretty good and fit what you what you guys are looking for.

And from the second that opportunity popped up, it was, it was the right thing.

But what did that experience look like for you?

Both as a player, but then also as kind of getting behind the scenes and starting to build, I don't want to say necessarily a coaching career, but just kind of get into what college coaching looked like more than just watching, watching lefty coach.

Yeah, I mean, for one, I would do anything I could, any chance, any chance I got to be around them.

I was trying to soak it up.

I remember one time like the, our very first trip my freshman year.

My mom loves to tell this story.

We were in Hawaii for the Maui Invitational and I forget exactly how it came about, but I ended up in, and I'm, you know, I'm a freshman three months in, up in Coach Hewitt's hotel room watching film of our, our game that, that day against Purdue.

And like I remember calling my mom and just so excited and she's expecting to hear some great story about Hawaii.

And I'm like, you won't believe this.

Like I was just watching film with Coach Hewitt, like just me and him.

And so like, yeah, I, I think so.

I'm on a staff right now.

Now Coach Murphy, Will Murphy was just left to take a Division 2 head job.

But this past year, past couple years at Wofford, you know, between Coach Perry, Coach Murphy and myself, we were all walk ons at the high major level and talking about our experiences, they were obviously different, but finding what they all had in common was figuring out a way to bring some value when you knew you weren't going to play right, you were going to have limited reps in practice, but like figuring out how to, how to bring value.

And for me it was having relationships with everybody on the team and I wasn't going to be in staff meetings, obviously I wasn't going to be a part of any game planning or anything like that.

But, but I, I took a lot of pride in building relationships with the guys on our team and, and having a pulse of, you know, what was going on and, and I felt like I could bring value that way and, and you know, say, preaching the right things and echoing the right things from our coaching staff.

Now it took some time because as a walk on, you gotta, you gotta build up some respect and, and for sure, some, some, you know, some capital.

But that was a way that, that I knew right away that I could, that I could bring some value and that, that aspect of coaching has never, never left me.

Yeah, I think that speaks to.

Right.

What you talked about with Lefty in terms of the relationships.

Right.

And building relationships with.

Starts with.

For you as a player.

You're building relationships with your teammates, you're building relationships with your coaching staff.

And now that translates, I'm sure, into you.

And we'll get into it more as we talk more about your coaching care, building relationships with players.

And I think as I hear you talk about being able to add value and figuring out, hey, where can I do that?

I think that's something that, and I like what you said right off the top when you said, as you get older, you become more self aware.

And I think that usually happens to most of us is that over time we sort of come to realize who we are and what we are and what we can do and what our strengths are, what our weaknesses are.

And then that allows us to, I think, bring more value to whatever environment that we're in.

Yeah.

Yeah.

When, when you're there and you're, you're playing.

And I think this is one of the things that I always find to be interesting.

And it goes back to that question of when did you decide you wanted to become a coach?

Are you the guy who's the player?

And then you're playing career hunts and you look it around and you're like, I got a coach.

Are you the guy who's thinking coaching the whole time while you're playing?

And obviously, as you said as a walk on, your reps in practice are somewhat limited.

You know, you're probably not going to get an opportunity to play in a game.

But how are you thinking about in processing the X's and O's that the coaches are putting out there, Whether it's specific game planning for a particular opponent, for just what you guys are running offensively and defensively?

How much of that are you taking back to your dorm room and going?

Trying to think through it from a coaching perspective in addition to knowing, hey, I got to be able to run this on the floor if I get an opportunity as a player.

How are you thinking through that?

Off the floor as a coach?

Yeah.

You mean as a, through as.

I was thinking about being a coach.

Right?

You're talking about.

Yeah.

Correct.

Yeah, Absolutely.

Yep.

So X's and O's wise.

I think I was always, I was always like just trying to learn as much as I could.

X's and O's wise.

And I, I never, I never like being like a big time X's and O's guy is nothing.

It's never Something I have, like, taken a lot of pride in.

I don't know if that comes off as.

I mean, I.

I feel like I am a good exes and O's guy.

You know, I've been a head coach and I've been the guy on the board, and I, I think that that's a skill of mine, but it's not.

That was never.

That was just never like, the most attractive thing about coaching for me.

And so, like, in terms of game planning and what I would take back to the dorms, I was.

I was always just trying to echo what was in, like, our scouting reports or using the same language that, you know, that.

That our staff was trying to use.

And, you know, and it was at no specific directive from them.

I just.

I just knew that, like, that's a great way to be helpful, you know, and definitely found myself in the dorm room, you know, listening to guys, you know, lament about their.

The different issues that they had and the problem they had with this and that.

And I, I would.

I would just try to.

To echo the things that, you know, if, If.

If I was having that conversation with Coach Hewitt in the room would want him to approve of that.

You know what I mean?

And so, like.

But the.

The thing that.

The thing that I remember, like, especially early on, like freshman sophomore year, trying to take a lot of ownership of, was something that Jerry Tarkanian said.

You know, Jerry Tarkanian and my granddad were.

Were very close.

And towards the end of, you know, their.

Their Final Four days, both of their wives, my grandmother and his wife kind of bowed out at going to the Final Four.

And so they would.

They would spend a lot of time together at those Final Fours.

And when I was little, you know, in high school and going to a couple of those, got to hear.

Got to hear them just sit around and talk a lot.

And.

And so I picked up his book, Running Rebel, when I was like, a sophomore, junior in high school.

And I remember there, you know, there was something in there where he talks about, like, all I need on my roster is eight guys that can play and three that cheer like hell.

And I was like.

So he mentioned this is.

This dude is somebody I really look up to and has had, you know, clearly a really good coach and he's had really good teams.

And he mentions two things.

Well, like, I can definitely be one of those that's cheering like hell, right?

Like, I can be one of those guys.

And so, like, being that guy on the bench and.

And then, you know, like, what we Talked about with being, you know, back at the dorm room.

Those were kind of my early on, like a niche that I knew I could, I could dig out and, and excel in.

So being selfless, obviously, that's what that's all about.

Right, because there's a lot of guys who are in that position, whether they're a walk on and they have an idea that, hey, I, I'm going to get this opportunity.

I'm, you know, maybe I'm better than somebody who's on scholarship.

We all have been in those situations, right.

Where you see guys that are not selfless, they're more focused on themselves or their issues.

What, what, what can they get out.

Of the team instead of what can.

They put into the team?

So in your role as, and you've been, and we're going to go through your different stops along the way, but have you used the story of yourself?

And again, I, obviously as a coach, you don't, you can only go to back in my day so often with, with your players.

Exactly.

But are you able to kind of incorporate your experience as a player and then relate that to maybe a situation that you've had with guys on your team and just how do you go about doing that and sort of without being the old guy, get off my lawn type of conversation?

Yes.

Yeah, definitely.

Everything.

I mean, whether we want to or not.

And I guess this goes to the self awareness piece.

The only perspective that we're able to, to talk to people through is, is our own.

And you know, I try to be empathic with, with, you know, our best players, but I, I just wasn't that at the college level.

And so I do think that what has, you know, what has helped me with, with relating to guys is all of the, the phenomenal players that I've been around and the phenomenal players that I've, you know, that I've had great relationships with and whether that is a player or a coach.

And so I think there's, I think there's credibility in that.

And now, I mean, Jesus, I, I was, I was talking with, you know, recruiting some of our players at dinner last night.

I, it's like you snap your fingers and all of a sudden you're old enough to where I don't even have to really refer back to my playing days anymore.

Like now I've, I've, I've been doing it long enough to where they don't even know some of those guys.

So, so yeah, I, I think, I think that, you know, the experience I had as a Walk on a Georgia Tech at Georgia Tech was invaluable and for a lot of, for a lot of reasons, but relating to our players, you know, that has, that is a, a skill that has, you know, been honed for a long time.

And now, now not just from my playing days, but from, from coaching.

All right, tell me about the job search.

When you graduate, what's the first step that you take?

Are you thinking college coaching?

For sure.

Is the direction that you want to go?

Because we'll get into your experiences at the high school level.

But what was the thought process as you graduated?

Yeah, so as I graduated, I thought at, at first I thought I had, I was going to get on with my Uncle Chuck.

He had just become the head coach at the Citadel.

And, and then they're, you know, they had a small, they still have a small staff, but they had a, a really small staff at the time.

And there was some hang ups with, you know, when I was going to graduate from college and when I could start.

And so it didn't, didn't, didn't line up like, like we wanted it to.

And so then I started, I started looking for stuff and I wasn't, I wasn't, honestly, I was not tied to it being in college or at a certain level.

I, I ended up, I ended up getting on with Corey Baldwin at what was Waycross College now South Georgia State.

Who.

He's, he's.

You've talked with Corey, right?

And he.

Yep.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

Great guy.

And yeah, so I was not, I was not at all like hung up on where to, where to go level to go to another, you know, Final Four run in with Granddad, was, was with Buzz Williams one time and my cousin Michael, who is now out of the business but was a coach for a long time.

He gave us the advice.

He said, don't pay attention to the logo on the shirt.

He was like, when you're looking for jobs early, look for jobs that are going to allow you to do the most work.

And, and so we, I definitely thought about that and took that to heart.

And you know, going and working for CB was a great decision.

I mean, I went down there and was able to coach, was able to recruit, learn a ton from a really good coach and also, you know, help do the laundry and drive the van.

What was the, what was the thing that you're like, man, this is, this is one of the most fun aspects of coaching that I didn't necessarily realize when I was still a player.

Was there something that stuck out to You.

That you were like, man, I didn't realize that this part of the game or this part of the.

Of the job was going to be so much fun.

Yeah.

I mean, honestly, that had to get done.

That was, like, the best.

Because you as a.

Even as a.

As a player, things just sort of happen, and you.

You're not privy to how it happens or you know exactly who's the one that's making it happen.

And, like, I got.

I got down there, and it was like, if.

If you don't do this, then it's not gonna happen.

And I remember one time, one of our first games, our.

Our camera broke before the game, and Corey's like, I mean, you can either figure out how to get this thing working or, like, we're not gonna.

We're not gonna be recording this game.

And so, I mean, this is like.

This is like 45 minutes before the game now, and.

And I jump in my car and I run down to the pawn shop up the street, and I trade the broken camera for a camera that works and, like, 200 worth of advertising in our gym.

I think it was called Risky Business Pawn.

And like, I just.

I just remember after.

After that game and watching the film and being like, man, like, we're gonna show this to our players.

They have no idea how this happened, but, like, somebody had to get the shit done.

That's a good.

That's a good story.

I.

I like that one.

That's, again, sometimes, right, the necessity is the mother of invention.

So you got to figure out what.

What needs to happen and how it needs to happen.

So that year, and you talked about the learning process, right, and getting an opportunity to do lots of things.

And it's funny, because I've talked to so many coaches, and a lot of times, honestly, guys that have started at the Division 3 level, this is a story I often hear from them, right, Is that I was the only assistant coach.

So therefore, me and the head coach, one, we were talking all the time, so I was learning from my head coach.

And then two, just as you said, you get to dip your hands into every single aspect of the program.

Because it's not like you're on a D1 staff where, all right, we got this guy to do this, this guy to do that, and this guy to do that.

Like, when you're at that level where maybe you're the only assistant coach, all of a sudden, you get to do every single thing that any coach is going to ever have to do.

So when you think back to that first year.

What's an area that you feel like you really improved upon?

Maybe not even in just that first year, but an area that maybe you came into the coaching profession where, and I'm not sure how good I am at this or I'm not sure that my knowledge is where it should be.

And you really saw some growth and some opportunity to be able to grow.

In those areas, I think, I think so.

Recruiting.

I felt like recruiting was going to be kind of in my blood, right.

And people told me that granddad was always, you know, most famous for being a great recruiter, you know, to his own chagrin.

Sometimes he, he, right.

Like to remind people that he could also coach.

But so I kind of thought that that would, the ins and outs of that in my mind, recruiting was, you know, taking a phone call at the beach house, like I said, and, and, you know, being charismatic and, and, and so I thought it would come easy to me and it, and it didn't.

And part of it was, you know, the learning curve of, you know, trying to cast a wide net.

The things that you're, the things that you're looking for, looking through the lens of the school where you're at, the coach who you're working for, what your needs are.

And, and so like, I think being able to do that right off the bat was, I think, really, really important for my own personal growth.

And the thing that I thought, honestly that I thought would be, would be, would take me a little more time.

And obviously I wasn't, I wasn't great off the bat, but the on floor stuff came a lot easier to me than I thought it might.

And part of that, you know, I, I ran a basketball camp and would do lessons and stuff from the time I was a junior in high school.

And so I had, you know, some experience being out on the floor and instructing.

But, you know, I, I, I've got a, you know, I've got a big presence and a big voice.

And I learned early that, that I was going to be pretty good on the floor.

And, and recruiting was, was something that was definitely going to be a skill that I needed to hone.

And I thought if you had asked me going in, I thought that those two things would have been reversed.

So from the recruiting standpoint, I think what you talked about there in terms of knowing your institution, knowing the type of player that your head coach wants and the type of player that can be successful playing for your head coach also, again, knowing the area, right.

That you can recruit from because schools have different geographic Areas where it makes sense to recruit from and where it may not make sense to recruit from.

So in your various stops at the college level, how long does it take you to get a really good feel for what the type of player is that you want to bring in that's going to fit the institution, that's going to fit the culture of the team, that's going to fit the head coach?

What's that process like for you?

I actually liken it to.

You know, when I was done with Corey, I, I did the only thing I've ever done in my life that was outside of, you know, pointing towards coaching.

And I was going into the Peace Corps and I lived in, in Cambodia for a little over two years.

And there's a thing in the Peace Corps, they just like all, you know, government entities, they, they use a bunch of acronyms, right?

And they, they, when you first get to where you're gonna live, there's this thing that they encourage you to do.

They call it IRBing and IRB stands for intentional relationship building.

And basically for two weeks they, they tell you to, to go out one.

Practice your language skills because you're, you're speaking a different language and you're just learning it and you sound like an idiot.

And, and to ask people, ask, you know, the people, the school teachers ask the, the people who, you know, work in the market.

Ask the, you know, the, the local politicians ask people what, what it is that their community needs and get to know those people.

And then that is kind of where you build what projects you think are important to the community and what's feasible.

And, and I, I think that is so similar to getting to a new job.

And it's not all that similar because you are speaking a different language most of the time you get somewhere and you know, different pipelines and different, you know, ways that, that, that schools do things and, but like spending some time to actually get to know some people at an institution in the beginning is extremely beneficial.

And because that, that tells you, you know, what your, you know, who the, the place that you're recruiting towards and you, you meet people that have been there for 30 years and why they've been there 30 years and you know, you learn things about the town and about the school.

And so I think doing that and, and actually taking time to do that is, is something that, you know, I learned in the Peace Corps and I absolutely take time to, to do it at every place that I've been in coaching.

Makes sense.

It's a great lesson that you Took from that experience.

Why that experience in the Peace Corps?

How'd that come to you?

What was the decision making process there?

To go to join a Peace Corps?

Yes.

Well, it was, I, it way, it wasn't one thing.

I, I call it a, you know, it's kind of hedonistic altruism.

I, I, I wanted to help people and I, I was, you know, it's, it's a, my, my kind might be diminishing in college coaching, but I'm a bleeding heart liberal.

And so I did want, I did want to do that, but there was a selfish element to it.

I wanted to travel, I wanted to see the world.

And, and so I got to, I got to do both.

And it was hands down the best decision I ever made.

You came back from that experience.

How were you?

How are you different?

Well, I had a beard down to the middle of my chest and hair down to my shoulders.

So I was a little different there.

I don't know exactly, man, how I was different.

I think I wasn't sure I was coming back to the States.

I certainly wasn't sure I was coming back to coach.

But I did, I did really miss basketball.

And I think being away from it, I was, I learned, I learned parts about what I missed about it that were separate from just growing up, being intoxicated with it, from my family.

And so I was, I, I really, really missed basketball.

Was it the relationships with players?

Was it the competitiveness?

It was the competitiveness there was, it was the, the job.

You know, volunteerism is amazing.

And it's, and it's, it's an, I think I'm a huge advocate for the Peace Corps and the mission.

It's not, it did not scratch a competitive itch that, that I clearly have.

What's interesting is that when you think about different things that we do, we all do in our lives, there are very, very few things that are like sports where you're instantaneously measured on a scoreboard.

And obviously that's not the only measurement of winning and losing and success and failure.

And we could talk about that for days and days and days.

But, but clearly there's, there's immediate feedback in sports and in the game of basketball that there isn't in the Peace Corps.

Right, the Peace Corps, you're making tremendous impacts on people's lives.

But at the end of the day, you don't look up at the scoreboard and see, okay, today I won and my opponent lost, or vice versa.

Yeah, it's a much more of a slow Burn.

And I think anybody who grows up around sports, I think that that's something when you don't have that in their life.

I think most people miss it.

Some people miss it more than others, which tends to push them into coaching or other kind of some type of competitive outlet.

And then other people are able to kind of put that aside.

But yeah, I think the competitive side of it is one thing that it's hard to.

It's really, really hard to walk away from a mass.

Still.

I still miss it to this day.

And I guess I probably lean.

I probably lean more towards the player side of it.

Like, I think about.

I think about the game more from a.

From a player perspective.

And I'm 55 years old and I still, you know, I'll have a dream and I'm.

I'm dreaming about, I'm dreaming about when I was playing and.

But yet at the same time, it feels the same way when you're standing on the sideline and you're, you're competing and mad that just.

There's nothing, there's nothing that replaces that in life.

There's not, but it's also, it's also.

So my mom is a.

Was a Presbyterian minister and she.

I remember in one of her sermons she.

I mean, she talked about growing up as a coach's daughter a lot.

But the absurdity that, you know, the mood in the house totally depended on whether or not the ball went in the basket or not.

And I do, I do think that some of the perspective that I gained being away from it and being away from it in the nature that I was, I.

I gained some perspective on that absurdity, but also like some respect for it because it is absurd.

And it is important that we as coaches know that, you know, we ain't curing cancer and to, to take it easy sometimes.

And I think, you know, not, not get that.

That inflated sense of self importance that coaches have.

But the, there's nothing wrong with, you know, having some absurdity in your life.

And if, and if that absurdity is, you know, a game of basketball and, and that type of competitiveness, then, you know, I think that's, I think that's healthy.

That's really well said, Ty.

And I think that goes back to what you said earlier.

When you're, when you're talking about just.

Again, you have to only see things right through your own perspective.

That's where you're coming from.

And when you're talking to somebody, you can only talk about the life that you've led and See that from, from your perspective.

And that's how we all come at things.

And when I think about coaching and I think about what you just talked about there, it's like, yeah, it is a little bit absurd that the mood and we can't sleep.

And I remember coaching my daughter's third or fourth grade travel basketball team and not being able to sleep after games, like, what could I have done differently?

And then now my kids are older and I look back at that age of kid playing basketball, I'm like, how could I ever have even remotely taken this seriously or think that anything that I was doing as a coach, other than maybe what I was doing in practice to help them get better, but certainly no game time decisions were making a big impact on wins and losses.

And so it's just, I mean, you do have to really keep it in perspective.

And yet at the same time, it's, it's super important to each and every one of us as coaches, our teams and our players, and just the way that we interact with those teams is, is just, it's so important.

It's so important.

Basketball coaching for those of us who love the game, the ability to use that game to have an impact on players, on people using something that we love.

To me, that's always the most powerful part when I think about what I love about coaching.

And yeah, there's a lot of little intimate, different details and things, but ultimately for me it comes down to, is that I get to use a game that I love to be able to have an impact on.

And I think that's a powerful way to look at coaching.

And at the same time, like you said, you have to be able to sort of not take yourself quite as seriously as we sometimes do.

Yeah, absolutely, man.

Perspective is everything.

Yep.

No doubt.

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Tell me about coming back from the Peace Corps.

You get in at the University of North Georgia.

So your second experience at the college level, what's that like?

How do you get that opportunity?

Yeah, I actually, my, my first coaching gig coming back from the Peace Corps was coaching, helping an AU program in Atlanta and, and then from there to North Georgia and we, I, I went there and had known their, their staff for a while.

Chris Faulkner and Josh Travis, my, two of my cousins played for him.

One of my best friends from college played, played there.

And so I had a relationship with those guys and, and it was, it was great.

It was another opportunity where, where I was able to do a lot of stuff and you know, coach and recruit and, and I, we, we weren't, we weren't wins and losses.

We were not very good that year.

We lost a ton of close games and, but I, I loved that opportunity and that opportunity was like the perfect thing for me personally.

Getting back into it with a group of guys that were, that I was familiar with and knew and, and was able to do a lot of stuff.

After that season.

You jumped to the high school ranks.

How does that happen?

What, what were you thinking at the time?

Was it just an opportunity that you couldn't pass up?

What was, what were you thinking in that moment?

At the time, my, my dad was, had been a high school football coach at South Gwinnett High School and the athletic director, who I knew through him, called me and I had honestly hadn't thought about it, hadn't thought about coaching in high school, hadn't thought about, you know, trying to be a head coach in high school.

And, and he called me and I told him that.

I said I never thought, I never thought about it.

And he said, well, think about it.

And I did.

And yeah, my, it was, it was great.

My, When I first got back from the Peace Corps, my brother and I got a house together in Atlanta.

And you know, my brothers, my best friend, he's like my, you know, consigliere.

And so the opportunity to stay in Atlanta, get some head coaching experience at the highest level of high school basketball and, and I, I thought, you know, I was going to be able to, to live with him.

And I was like, this, this is, this sounds great.

And so I, I did that.

And it was a great experience being able to get that, that head coaching experience and, and do it at that level and love every second of that.

What about being a head coach?

Did you learn that maybe was different from when you were an assistant coach?

What were some lessons that you picked up from being a head coach that maybe you hadn't picked up when you were an assistant?

The just management, I think, you know, managing people is, is a skill and being, you know, managing, you know, staff and, you know, we're a huge school.

And so I had plenty of, you know, plenty of assistants that wanted to be involved in managing, you know, a staff, managing administration, and then.

And in managing players, you know, from that chair is different.

No matter what level you're at, it is different to be, to be the guy who makes the final call on things is different.

And, you know, I learned through mistakes.

There was plenty of mistakes that I made early on, and that I think made me better at it.

But I do think that, you know, that is, that is an experience that, you know, you can, you can get some of it as a, as an assistant, but not, not quite at the same degree and definitely until you, until you're in it, until you experience it, and not that you can't be good at it right away.

There's plenty of assistants that are, that are ready to roll and, and good with that, with the management aspect right away.

But, but it's certainly, it's certainly different than, than, Than being an assistant in that aspect.

Yeah, I definitely think that there's an adjustment period, right, to be able to go from, hey, I'm making suggestions.

It's always the point, right?

I can make a suggestion as an assistant coach and as a head coach, I ultimately have to make the decision.

So I know that.

Then you took another high school job after South Gwinnett.

So where are you on the track of, hey, do I want to stay in high school?

Do I want to get back to college coaching?

Eventually?

I know the opportunity.

When you're at Holy Spirit, you got a chance to coach Anthony Edwards, which obviously helps for sure.

So I want you to talk a little about that experience, but just tell me where you were at, mindset wise.

Yeah, mindset wise.

I wasn't really trying to.

I know this is, this is terrible advice, but I, I wasn't really trying to think three or four steps ahead, career wise.

I was happy doing what I was doing and living where I was living and I liked the high school level.

I, I was, I was very comfortable and comfortable in the sense of my, my living situation professionally.

I felt challenged and I felt, you know, that there, there, there were things that I needed to get better at and there were areas for me to improve and, but I also felt that I was good at it.

And, and so like, I, I, I wasn't really trying.

I wasn't thinking about moving on, moving up.

I did have, I had a hell of a player in, in ant at Holy Spirit and that, that can make you look like a good coach at times and probably, probably a little better than you actually are.

But yeah, at that time I wasn't, I wasn't trying to, I certainly was not thinking about getting back into college.

I was, I really enjoyed being a high school head coach.

Tell me about aunt what he was like as a high school kid.

What did you see for him in his future?

Obviously, the athleticism and the skill and just there's a mindset that sets guys about like him apart.

But what do you remember about him as a high school player?

What made him so special beyond just the, the athleticism and the basketball skill?

I mean, Mike, we could do a whole podcast where I could wax poetic about Anthony Edwards.

He was, you could tell, you could tell early on and he was special.

Now I think anybody who tells you that they predict that anybody can reach the level that he's at right now is, is probably telling you some, some exaggerated story because so much goes into that, to, to getting to the, the superstardom that he's at.

But you could certainly tell that, that he had the tools and, but like the things that stood out most to me were, were 100% his charisma and his emotional intelligence.

He was, he had as high of an EQ of, of any person I've ever been around and even at that age.

And just his awareness of, of his effect on people around him, his awareness of his effect on his teammates was, was years beyond his age.

And so I, I think that that, that stood out to me as much as, you know, his, his basketball talent and his athleticism.

What's an example of that EQ that you could maybe point to something specific that, hey, here's a situation where maybe another high school kid, even a super talented kid might have been in this particular spot and reacted in a different way.

What's an example of him demonstrating that, that eq?

So like, I think, I mean that that year, man, it was a who's who Especially the second half of the year, you know, he, in December he reclassed up and he went from, I had him as a, as a, what was his junior year and he reclasses into the, the class above him.

And so it became, it became a who's who of, you know, hall of fame college coaches coming through our practices.

And, and, and he, I think, you know, every, we had some, we had some other players on that team that were Division 2 players.

We had one, another low, low major Division 1 player.

But, but there was nobody that was close to him.

And, and, but these guys, these guys were trying to get recruited too.

And, and he, he, he really understood the weight that, that those guys felt, you know, being in his orbit.

And, and one of the things that he would always do is when coaches would come in, it would, you know, it be Penny Hardaway, Bill Self and you know, John Caliper, you name it, they're all coming through.

And at the end of a workout or a practice, Ant made it a point to introduce those guys to his entire team, all of his teammates.

And, and I think, I think, I think that was a great example of his, you know, self awareness and, and you know, just bringing, bringing, trying to bring guys along, along for the ride with him versus trying to stand out on an island by himself.

Yeah, and we can obviously see plenty of examples of it going the other way, right, where the kid, the star, the attention gets to him, goes to his head and all of a sudden everybody's beneath him.

And it sounds like that was the exact opposite.

And I think, you know, you get the opportunity to be around a guy like that and you look at the players who eventually make it to the level that he's made it to, or even guys that make it to the league.

And one of the questions that I always try to ask coaches who had the opportunity to be able to talk to him is, you know, what, what makes this guy, what makes him special?

Because clearly, look, there are athletic gifts that you have to have in order to be able to play in the NBA.

Whether that's size or speed or jumping ability or whatever it is.

There, there's some, there's some physical tools that not everybody has that prevent some people from having an opportunity to be able to play.

But it's always the, you know, what are the things that separate, what are the intangibles that make a guy who, when everybody's kind of on the same level athletically or skill development wise or whatever it may be, what are the things that, that separate Those guys.

And I think, you know, you talking about just his, you know, emotional intelligence and being able to navigate situations and figure out how to work with teammates and how to pick people up and make people around you better.

And those are all skills, again, that some guys that have all the talent in the world never.

They never figure that out.

And for him to be able to figure that out at such an early age, obviously is something that's propelled him forward.

And he, as we all know, he's a kid that came out and, you know, when he went to Georgia, certainly wasn't considered that, hey, this kid's going to turn around and be the first pick in the NBA draft, you know, a year after he gets to, you know, after he gets to Georgia.

And just.

It speaks to, again his.

His ability to.

To be able to navigate situations and obviously the success that he's completely had here, you know, in.

In the NBA to this point.

So I'm sure it was a great opportunity to be able to coach him, just be around a guy of that, you know, that caliber.

Yeah, really was.

It was.

It came.

It came with.

With a lot of challenges, for sure, but it was a great.

It was a really great experience.

And.

And, you know, I was lucky to.

To.

To be a part of it, man, to be along for the ride.

Tell me about getting the opportunity to go back to college at Jacksonville State.

So I was up in Maine.

Things didn't work out at Holy Spirit after that year.

We had a lot of national attention.

It's a small private Catholic school in Atlanta, and I think they were trying to pivot away from a model of having competitive basketball and.

Which wasn't what I signed up for.

So.

So I, I.

I got out of there without a job.

I.

I left there without.

Without a job.

And.

And I went up to.

I was up in Maine and with.

With some of my family, and I had responded to.

I was gonna go work.

I was gonna go work at a.

I was gonna take, like, a basketball training job in China.

And I mean, what year was this?

I guess this was 2000, like the beginning.

This was 20, 19.

18.

19 and 19.

And so, like a year right before COVID and I had.

I had my.

I had my Chinese visa.

I had done.

I had.

I had decided that I was.

That I was going to China and taking this job.

And my cousin was friends with a guy who was on staff at Jacksonville State, and we were sitting on the porch, and he was like, hey, this guy just called me and said, they're looking for somebody Like Ray Harper's an unbelievable coach.

Would you be interested?

And I was like, I was literally two weeks from leaving and, and I, and I, and I called, I called and talked with the guy who was friends with my cousin and he was like telling me about the job and I was researching Coach Harper and, and, and talked to some people that knew him and ultimately I decided, yeah, no, I want to, let's, let's give this a try and you know, another chance to, to learn from, from a guy who's been really, really good at it.

And so yeah, I ended up at Jacksonville State.

What's the biggest thing that you picked up during your time there that that helped you improve as a coach?

Jackson.

So Ray Harper is the best in game coach I've ever been around.

And like, and part of it is, just part of it is, I mean honestly I think part of it might be innate, like just how he happens to see the game and digest different things.

But he's, he's just, he's able to make in game adjustments and make calls on the fly that I mean, you know, part of it's, you know, the way he sees the game, but another part of is just having just big balls when he's coaching.

And, and so like I, I, I learned a lot from him in terms of like what, what to do within those 40 minutes between the lines and, and how to, how to handle different situations.

He is absolutely elite at that.

How much do you think?

And again, this goes back to your experience, right, as a head coach at the high school level.

I think it's always interesting when you start to think about your time as an assistant.

So you have a lot of long time assistant coaches who maybe get a head job after having been an assistant for 10, 12, 15 years.

And then all of a sudden you got to make all those in game decisions.

And I've had so many people ty tell me that, hey, you need to get as many reps as you can as a head coach.

Whether you think about being a young guy.

You know, you mentioned earlier about coaching AAU and you could say, oh, that's only AAU basketball, but you're still getting reps as a head coach.

So when you think about your experience at the high school level and just being able to make those decisions as a head coach, how valuable will that be when eventually you get an opportunity to maybe be a head coach at the college level?

How do you look at those reps?

Yeah, so I think that those reps, I love that you call them reps.

Because they are reps.

They are.

It's something that you just can't simulate.

And yeah, I mean, I hope this doesn't come across as, as arrogant, but I'm really confident that when I get an opportunity, I'll be a really good college head coach.

And a lot of that confidence comes from my experience as a, as a head coach at the high school level and haven't been around really good head coaches my entire life.

I know what it looks like, know what it feels like.

But now having that, that experience certainly, you know, gives me, gives me that, that, that confidence and that self assuredness.

When you go from being a head coach to then being an assistant coach, it's unbelievable the lens through which you can observe the guy in that, in that spot and being able to do that.

For me, going from being a really young head coach to then observing a guy like Ray Harper, who had been doing it for so long at such a high level, was, was like, really, really valuable to me.

And the things that he was willing to do and the things that he was willing and sometimes the things that he was willing to overlook and not do, especially during those 40 minutes, was something that almost immediately I could look at and point to and be like, I could have done that significantly better.

And so, yeah, I think going from being in the head coaching position to then being an assistant working for guys who are really good, it's part of that journey that I know has prepared me.

Are you a note taker when you start thinking about putting together what you want your program to look like?

How are you collecting all of your material, your thoughts, your plans, your portfolio, for lack of a better way of saying it, what's your methodology for putting that all together into a, a cohesive bundle that you could eventually maybe share in a head coaching interview?

Yeah, I am a note taker.

I'm a journaler.

I, and, and a lot of times, like, I save.

I don't know, maybe this makes me a hoarder, but I, I save.

I keep these, these moleskin journals with me all the time and I'm, I'm constantly just jotting stuff down.

And so, yeah, I, I am, I, I do do that, but I, I also, I also, you know, take time to organize that when I feel like it's, it's necessary.

And so, yeah, you know, starting to get together what, what my coaching philosophy is and, and, you know, what that management style and that philosophy is in terms of your staff and your players and, you know, building a program and, and I'm I'm.

I'm certainly always cognizant of.

Of that.

Let me ask you the same question about Wofford that I asked you about Jacksonville State.

What's something that you've taken away from your time thus far at Wofford that you feel like has a.

Made you a better assistant coach, maybe also has prepared you as you look down the road at the potential for becoming a head coach at some point?

I think the relationship with your, the community, the relationship that your program has with the community and the relationship that, that your institution has with the community writ large.

I mean, like our Wofford is, is.

Is a really, really special place.

And the city of Spartanburg fully embraces Wofford College and, and Wofford basketball and, and they do.

And that that embrace is reciprocated.

And I think that those.

That intertwining of, you know, the, the community that you're a part of and understanding where your institution fits into that community and how it fits in and then how your basketball program, you know, sort of fits into both of those and understanding that your, your program is only a part of both of those things and not larger than either of those things, I think is it is something really that Wofford really has figured out and something that, that I would.

A model that, that, you know, it's not a one size fits all, but there's elements of that that no matter where you go, that you can try to implement.

Absolutely.

I mean, I think that sort of hits with the theme of our conversation.

Right.

That you want to be a part of that greater community, but yet not want to feel like, hey, we're overwhelming that, that we're more important than the larger again, municipality that we're located in and also the institution that we're a part of.

And I think when you get that all those things working together and you have the support of the community, you have the support of the staff and the students and then, and then you're giving that, you know, you're giving that back to them.

I think there's a tremendous amount of value in that.

And that's when you really have a program that, that captures the community and it creates a situation where the culture and what you're trying to do brings everyone together.

And it sounds like that's what you guys have been able to, to build at Wofford.

I want to ask you before we wrap up, Ty, I want to ask you a final two part question.

So part one of the question, when you look ahead over the next year or two, what do you see as being your biggest challenge?

And then part two, when you think about what you get to do every day, what brings you the most joy?

So your biggest challenge and then your biggest joy.

My, the biggest challenge, I think, is, is just keeping up.

I mean, things are changing so fast, and I think there's a lot.

Whether this is true or not is not really the point, but people feel as if they don't really know what's going on.

And whether that is transfer rules or eligibility rules or nil versus revenue share.

And again, regardless if the, if there's really concrete information and directives out there from governing bodies, it feels like people don't know what's going on.

And so I think the biggest challenge is, is trying to stay up and, and, and stay current with those things.

And that takes, that takes time, that takes relationships and, and that, that's, that's a true, that's a real challenge right now.

None of us could have foreseen five years ago that the, the way that the college basketball landscape looks today, none of us would have seen this coming five years ago.

Let's put it that way.

Yeah, we wouldn't have seen it coming.

And, and I mean, look, we started this thing.

I was telling you my romantic idea about college coaching that I fell in love with at 7 years old.

Well, that, that, that's kind of.

That doesn't, that job doesn't really exist anymore.

And so I think staying current, but also like hanging on to the things that make our, our sport.

And I'm, by sport, I mean college basketball.

I think what makes our sport really special and trying to hang on and protect and preserve those things while also, while also changing.

And, and I'm an advocate for a lot of these, these changes, especially with, with players being able to, to advocate for themselves and, and to, to, you know, get a slice of this pie.

And so I'm, I'm certainly an advocate, but keeping up with it is, is a challenge, right?

Absolutely.

All right, give me your biggest joy.

I mean, I got married last summer.

My biggest joy right now, hands down, is, is coming home to, to my wife and stepdaughter and, and those girls.

And I think that's, that's been.

We just, we're trying to buy a house right now, and that's hands down the biggest joy in my life.

I in, in terms of basketball and biggest joy that I have is meeting all of our new players and them meeting each other.

And we're going to have a lot of new guys this year, a lot of new faces.

And I am, I am really excited about this group that we have.

And then watching them, their relationships blossom and, and putting those, those pieces to the puzzle together, it's.

It's a lot of fun.

From, from two years ago to this past year, we brought back a lot of guys, which was awesome.

Huge reason why we were able to win, win the SoCon championship and get to the NCAA tournament.

Is, is some continuity.

And we graduated a lot of guys.

And so now I'm, I'm.

I have a lot of joy in, in looking forward to like, restarting that and, and, and building with what we got.

Good stuff.

I mean, talk about the, what we discussed earlier in terms of.

Right.

Relationships and building some new relationships with the guys that you're bringing into the program and being able to have an impact on them.

Before we wrap up, I want to give you a chance to share.

How can people reach out to you, connect with you, whether you want to share, email, social media, website, whatever you feel comfortable with.

And then after you do that, I'll jump back in and wrap things up.

Also, man, this is.

Hey, Mike, this is where.

This is where maybe, maybe you.

Maybe you can point me in the right direction.

I think I'm really good at this job, but I'm not very good at getting job.

My.

I don't.

I, I'm not very engaging on social media, but I, I'm on Twitter and Instagram both at.

I think they're the same.

We'll fight it, man.

We'll get it.

We'll get it in.

We'll get it.

I'm just.

I just don't spend a ton of time engaging.

I, I inevitably am on there, you know, trying to get information, especially with recruiting and stuff, like, sure, I'm not.

I'm not a very social media.

People would.

Would.

Would get on me for how, how disengaged.

I am completely understood.

It is a mystery no matter how much you're on there.

I can honestly say that I've been doing this with the podcast especially, and most of the time I have no idea what I'm doing.

I'm just trying to throw spaghetti at the wall and see what'll stick because it's.

It's a, It's a mystery no matter how much you.

No matter how much you use it.

So I'm right there with you, Ty.

All right, again, Ty, I want to thank you for taking the time out of your schedule tonight to join us.

Really appreciate it.

And to everyone out there, thanks for listening and we will catch you on our next episode.

Thanks.

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