Speaker: 00:00:00

I, sorry, bro.

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That's just, that's not who I am.

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Like that's, that's not how I've gotten to where I am.

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And that's not how I built this amazing team.

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Like I built an amazing team that looks at the situation and says, you know what?

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We can do that.

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Yeah, we can do that.

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And agile was a major disruptor for me because it started getting me almost every decision

I look in the mirror and I'm like, you know, is there a better way to do this?

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Or is it different way to do it?

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It's should I be talking to someone else to get a better way or a different way or an idea

or something like that, anything and to be more open minded.

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I would even disagree with myself,

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don't get stuck.

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It's really it's really a trap for leaders.

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there will be people that will be on the outside talking about, that's going to fail.

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That's going to be a mess.

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that's not going to work.

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There's no way that's going to happen.

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okay, cool.

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That's fine.

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You're allowed to think that but that's not going to change the thing that we're doing

because we've done everything that Bob just talked about.

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So Bob's doing the intro that means I gotta shut up

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which is hard for you to do.

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Hey, Metacasters, welcome to the cast today.

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I'm Bobby G.

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Galen, and I wanna introduce our topic.

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uh No, uh back in the 80s probably, mid to late 80s, uh I was leading, I was a software

engineering manager or director.

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and I was studying leadership, probably mostly because I sucked at it, and I was studying

everything.

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I was looking for role models, et cetera.

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And Colin Powell, this was pre-my Agile days.

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This was on the cusp of traditional management to Agile.

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And I came upon these 18 principles from Colin Powell.

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Colin Powell was a general in the military, secretary of state, I think under the Bush,

under one of the Bushes, and uh just someone I...

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When I read his 18 keys to leadership, uh it really resonated with me.

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It provided some wisdom.

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uh And it stayed with me not that long ago.

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I was flashing back.

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So this is what 40 years ago, 40 years ago or so.

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And I was looking at the principles again.

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It's hard to find them now online or harder to find them.

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And they really resonated again.

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So I suggested Josh that we share them.

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So this is Colin Powell's 18 principles to highly.

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effective leadership and we've picked, we've done one of our pick five.

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We're going to, so Josh picked his top five, I did, and we're going to run through them.

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Yes, we are.

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Are you ready?

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You want to go first or you want me to go first?

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Well, I picked lesson number one.

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So being responsible sometimes means pissing people off.

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And uh I agree with that.

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And I think a lot of leaders, uh they are really reluctant to have crucial conversations.

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They're really reluctant to uh speak truth to power, the power being their teams in this

case, that they'll obfuscate.

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They'll mislead, they'll be too subtle, they won't be clear.

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Because they're afraid, oh, I can't aggravate the masses, it'll undermine our roadmap, et

cetera, et cetera.

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that fear is not leadership.

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So the goal of this principle is not to piss people off.

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The goal of this, or the point of this principle, is to not be afraid of pissing people

off.

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To not let that be one of your guiding principles as a leader.

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But to be a truth teller, it's, we, think in one of our episodes, we talked about being a

truth teller up and out, but this is being a truth teller to your teams, even when the

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truth is gonna aggravate them.

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And that's something, it just resonates with me so much as to boldly go where, I need to,

ah not be afraid of aggravating people, not be afraid of making them angry.

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Yeah, I just, so I'm a movie, TV guy, and also a sports guy.

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Think of every movie you've ever seen.

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Remember the Titans or something like that, where there's a transformational coach.

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There's somebody that comes in to a team, takes that team from what they were to what they

could be, and recognize all of the times.

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when that leader that that person says something that that group doesn't like, but it's

something the group needs to hear for that group to achieve whatever they're trying to get

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done.

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Every movie, every story, every book, everything, where there's a transformation requires

that because you're just going to keep doing the same thing.

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and you get stuck in this rut and you're oh man, I wish we would be better, I wish we

would be better, but you don't want to do the hard thing.

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So then someone has to come in and make you do the hard thing to evolve and transform.

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And it often requires saying things that people might not want to hear, but that's the

job.

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So I would million percent agree.

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Absolutely.

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Real quickly about a Kestrel, it's not just what you say, it's what you do as well.

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So let's say uh Josh is a software manager reporting to me and I'm the CTO of a company

and I want to uh promote Josh and no one in the company likes Josh.

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And this is farfetched, but no one in the company likes Josh.

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Everyone thinks he's a Moronsky.

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And when I announced his promotion and I announced my rationale for it,

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my reasons before and I'm setting him up for success, but no one agrees with me.

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And I know that in advance because I know Josh, but I know that in advance, but I go

through with it because he's the right guy.

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He's the right guy and I believe in him.

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again, it's what you say and then what you do.

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ah What you do is gonna piss people off.

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You stick to your guns.

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ah What's the next number in order, Josh?

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So I'm going to cheat.

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think, I think you'll label this as cheating.

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I am going to do a combo platter.

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I'm going to do number three and number four together because I believe they kind of work

together.

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They're kind of hand in hand.

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So number three is don't be buffaloed by experts and elites.

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Experts often possess more data than judgment and the elites become so inbred that they're

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that they produce hemophiliacs who bleed to death as soon as they are nicked by the real

world.

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And number four is don't be afraid to challenge the pros even in their own backyard.

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So I was looking forward to this one because I think about challenging the pros even in

their own backyard.

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I've been having to wrestle with this Bob Galen guy for 15 years.

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So boy, do I believe in this one.

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So this is one of those things and we have talked about it a lot about

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Don't be afraid to challenge the pros.

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The thought leaders air quote that are out there oftentimes haven't done the job.

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And so they're pontificating on, hey, here's how it should work.

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And then you scratch the surface like, well, I mean, like what happened when you did that?

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How did that work?

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And it's not, there's not much there like, well, wait a minute, wait a minute.

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How, why should I be like hanging on every word that you're typing or sharing or whatever?

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And you haven't done the thing.

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Now it's good to get those different opinions and viewpoints, but there are no silver

bullets.

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Don't take anything anybody says, Bob, myself, anybody else that's out there, don't take

it as gospel.

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You cannot.

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We might be considered experts or pros, but don't just take what we've done and copy and

paste it into your life because your life is not the life that we...

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live that we're sharing our stories from Spotify is one of those major things I, you know,

if you've been around the podcast for a while, you know that I like the things that

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Spotify did.

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And in our area, I kicked off and started doing a bunch of Spotify stuff.

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And then I turned around and like I saw all these job postings for chapter leads and all

these different spot of my things like, wait a minute, what are you people doing?

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You know?

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So yeah, it's just be careful.

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Take everything with a grain of salt, including this podcast.

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Absolutely.

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I was going to add to that everyone.

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It's not just uh how recently have they done it is another variation.

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So I haven't written software in 20 years.

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That's just real software.

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I've dabbled, but real software.

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So you do not want to listen to me for design techniques.

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or design trade-offs.

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mean, higher level things perhaps, guidelines, et cetera.

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But again, it's always asked people, did you do it?

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And when was the last time you did it?

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So just when was the last time you did it?

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And did you really lead it or were you part of a 100 person team that did something?

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And you did one line of code before you left in your one day of work or something like

that.

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ah Lesson number six, Josh, is my next one.

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Ooh, that was my next one too.

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All right, we'll do it.

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We'll do a match on this.

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You don't know what you can get away with until you try.

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And there's there's an old technique, Metacaster is called or an old thought called

managers discretion.

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I don't know if it's still valid, but as I was growing up in the 80s, 90s, 2000s, 2010s,

even there was uh HR departments and leadership teams.

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We talked about there was an intangible wiggle room where managers had discretion.

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Like I could buy something and I may or may not have the budget for it.

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And then I asked for forgiveness, right?

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I do something and then I asked for forgiveness.

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And that's the thing here.

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I think as leaders, we want to be on that hairy edge.

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ah We don't want to be creating insubordination.

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We don't want to be totally jerking our leaders around.

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But we want to be supporting the mission.

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And we want to be stretching the things that our teams need.

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And I don't see enough boldness in leaders today.

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I haven't seen it.

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I haven't seen it ever in leaders.

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This manager, I used to lean into management discretion.

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So I used to get, you know, just put up against the wall.

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It was like, well, I used my discretion.

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I used my judgment.

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What?

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You're not supposed to do that.

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ah And then I took the licking.

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But I was supporting the mission.

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I was supporting the the project.

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I was supporting the business, if you will.

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Josh.

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Yeah, this was a lesson that I learned from Gonzalo Hidalgo at Teradata.

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So Bob and I both worked with and for him and we didn't always agree with him, but Gonzalo

was really good at understanding the rules and playing within them, but stretching them.

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And that was an eye opener for me.

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So he understood the protocols.

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He understood

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how to do the things, but he also understood that how we choose to execute under the

covers, that's up to us.

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And we are the ones that are closest to the problem and we can figure out the best way to

unlock our team and their capabilities.

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And you can't just be, again, a carbon copy.

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And so as I saw him do that, it was an eye opener because we had some real struggles with

hiring, because we worked at a big company and they had all these procedures and...

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all these levels before a resume would show up on a manager's desk.

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So he figured out a way to work around that and get people that he could find in quickly

and making a difference and work them through the system.

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And that was an eye opener for me.

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So I've, again, looked at that very, very similar to what Bob said is you, you you

understand the things you have to do and then you understand the ways you can work around

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them or through them and be comfortable.

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you know, the number of times I said, Hey, we're going to do this.

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And like a member of my team, like, can we do that?

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Like, has anybody said we can't, you like there's nothing that says we can't do it.

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We're just choosing to do it differently.

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Like there's no, we don't have to, we only have to do this.

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You know, one of the things that was a pretty large moment was when we chose to change the

way that we figured out a bonus and the, and the company, all I had to do as a leader was

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send an Excel file to HR of every person on my team and what the bonus was that they were

going to get.

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There was no edict on how I calculated that.

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And so we chose to discuss it as a team and allocate it to ourselves as a team and take

that a person was like, well, you know, we're to get in trouble.

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Like, what are we going to get in trouble for?

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We're not going to get there.

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Like we are doing the thing we've been asked to do.

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We've been given a bucket of money.

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And it's my responsibility to allocate it amongst this group.

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And as long as the number adds up to the number that I have, I'm good.

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It doesn't matter.

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We can choose to operate however we want.

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Okay.

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You are a bold man.

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I like listening to your Challenge HR stories, Josh.

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I do.

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It warms my heart.

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My next number's 13, so do you have anything?

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I have two before that.

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I get to double dip here.

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So this will align with that.

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Number 11, fit no stereotypes.

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Don't chase the latest management fads.

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The situation dictates which approach best accomplishes the team's mission.

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So you may have heard me say some words that sounds like this is the thing that I'm pretty

passionate about.

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um This has really been a driver.

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for me because of my anti-mentor approach or anti-mentor history that I had where I never

had this pattern or practice laid in front of me that I believed in that I knew worked.

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I never had a blueprint, a roadmap for this is what being a great leader looks like.

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So I just felt like I had to figure it out.

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And I leaned on my agile background and I just started trying things and discarding them

if they didn't work, trying them quickly, failing fast, failing, like all of those things

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so that I could find the thing that worked because I didn't know what the answer was.

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So I felt my only path out of this was, Hey, let's just try stuff and see what works.

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And that often meant doing things that people weren't really thinking about.

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In fact, agile was one of those things.

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one of the teams I was working with.

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We just didn't like the way things were going.

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So we started changing stuff.

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We started doing things differently.

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And we had been doing this for close to a year.

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And then one of my lead, lead devs, sent me a message like, Hey, here's a link to this web

page.

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And there's this thing called agile.

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And I think we're doing it.

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And that and so that wasn't unlocked for us like, holy cow, there's other people doing

this.

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That's so exciting.

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But we wouldn't have gotten there if we weren't willing to

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Just try and do something different.

229

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Try and find the thing that works and not accept that what you're doing now isn't working.

230

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All right, Bob.

231

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of the biggest dangers for leaders is you fall into a sense of comfort with your ways of

doing work, ah with your strategies, with your tactics, with your habits.

232

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ah I try to challenge myself.

233

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I don't do it enough.

234

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I've learned over the years, decades, to do it more and more because I'm a comfort zone

guy.

235

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So historically, I'm a comfort zone guy.

236

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If it works, then it works.

237

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I can easily fall into a habit.

238

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And agile was a major disruptor for me because it started getting me almost every decision

I look in the mirror and I'm like, you know, is there a better way to do this?

239

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Or is it different way to do it?

240

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It's should I be talking to someone else to get a better way or a different way or an idea

or something like that, anything and to be more open minded.

241

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I would even disagree with myself, right?

242

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Overnight I think of a different, ah, that was wrong.

243

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That's two sides.

244

00:16:22,446 --> 00:16:25,924

I'll wake up the next day and I'm like 180.

245

00:16:25,924 --> 00:16:28,066

this degree is spun on it.

246

00:16:28,066 --> 00:16:30,259

But it's that it's that don't get stuck.

247

00:16:30,259 --> 00:16:33,152

It's really it's really a trap for leaders.

248

00:16:33,152 --> 00:16:37,617

ah It's been a trap for me and I'm still I'm still a work in progress when it comes to

that.

249

00:16:37,617 --> 00:16:39,378

So Josh is right on.

250

00:16:39,419 --> 00:16:40,668

Do you have 12, Josh?

251

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do have 12.

252

00:16:42,168 --> 00:16:47,110

So I have number 12, which is perpetual optimism as a force multiplier.

253

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I know.

254

00:16:50,081 --> 00:16:50,951

we're to talk about that.

255

00:16:50,951 --> 00:16:53,622

Yeah.

256

00:16:53,622 --> 00:16:56,052

So this was something that smacked me in the face.

257

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So I was working for a CTO, you know, uh 10, 12 years ago, and I was the VP of software

engineering and we had a V VP of it and we were in there and we were talking about

258

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something and

259

00:17:10,332 --> 00:17:12,213

the CTO like pounded the desk.

260

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He's like, I cannot live in a world where my leader of software engineering is an

optimist.

261

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That is just not gonna work.

262

00:17:21,427 --> 00:17:23,338

I need you to be a pessimist.

263

00:17:23,338 --> 00:17:27,980

I need you to think the world's gonna end and like be defensive about everything.

264

00:17:27,980 --> 00:17:29,340

I, sorry, bro.

265

00:17:29,340 --> 00:17:31,621

That's just, that's not who I am.

266

00:17:31,621 --> 00:17:35,943

Like that's, that's not how I've gotten to where I am.

267

00:17:35,943 --> 00:17:38,354

And that's not how I built this amazing team.

268

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Like I built an amazing team that looks at the situation and says, you know what?

269

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We can do that.

270

00:17:44,387 --> 00:17:45,847

Yeah, we can do that.

271

00:17:45,847 --> 00:17:53,681

Now, I of course wrapped processes and communication protocols around that so that we

weren't over promising, right?

272

00:17:53,681 --> 00:17:55,252

That was something that we didn't do.

273

00:17:55,252 --> 00:18:01,474

There's a difference between over promising and getting yourself in trouble with

publishing dates and being an optimist, right?

274

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You have to believe that you can do a thing because...

275

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One of my favorite things that I tell my kids all the time that I know they are absolutely

sick of is whether you think you can, whether you think you can't, you're right.

276

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So I try and lean into we can and we're gonna figure it out.

277

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So that is one of those things that just to me is wired into who I am and will be wired

into the teams that I build forever.

278

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I mean, uh I can't agree more, Josh.

279

00:18:29,635 --> 00:18:31,653

I'm a can-do kind of guy.

280

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I mean, I've always been...

281

00:18:33,078 --> 00:18:44,998

uh You remember that story where the first time I did public speaking, I paired with

someone at a conference in San Diego, and uh the author of the thing we were speaking

282

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about was sitting in the front row.

283

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was like God.

284

00:18:48,531 --> 00:18:53,615

uh sort of Eric and I did the talk.

285

00:18:53,615 --> 00:18:54,806

I don't even remember it.

286

00:18:54,806 --> 00:18:56,211

I think I brain dead.

287

00:18:56,211 --> 00:18:56,791

Yeah.

288

00:18:56,791 --> 00:18:57,222

time.

289

00:18:57,222 --> 00:19:00,903

Seriously, I don't remember what happened or anything.

290

00:19:00,964 --> 00:19:02,936

Eric has never spoken in public again.

291

00:19:02,936 --> 00:19:03,766

He was scarred.

292

00:19:03,766 --> 00:19:08,269

was he was physically damaged as a result.

293

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And I took that as I can do that.

294

00:19:11,051 --> 00:19:13,192

It's a it's a challenge to me.

295

00:19:13,193 --> 00:19:14,904

It's it's and it's a big challenge.

296

00:19:14,904 --> 00:19:18,486

The bigger the challenge of writing a book was another child.

297

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My writing sucked.

298

00:19:19,937 --> 00:19:22,079

And my first book, I challenged myself.

299

00:19:22,079 --> 00:19:26,001

I I I think that can do spirit.

300

00:19:26,501 --> 00:19:28,593

uh, permeates my leadership journey.

301

00:19:28,593 --> 00:19:30,184

It's done me a good service.

302

00:19:30,184 --> 00:19:35,797

And I think anyone that I've seen with can do spirits versus can't do spirits, they can do

is Trump.

303

00:19:35,797 --> 00:19:39,290

can't do's, unless the can't do's are in QA.

304

00:19:39,290 --> 00:19:39,920

was a joke.

305

00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:47,455

Everyone, you want, you want can't do's in QA.

306

00:19:47,455 --> 00:19:48,481

I've just, I'm just kidding.

307

00:19:48,481 --> 00:19:49,577

I'm just kidding.

308

00:19:49,577 --> 00:19:53,859

I have 13 and it's pals rules for picking people.

309

00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:56,091

P Peter pumpkin.

310

00:19:56,091 --> 00:20:04,075

picking people, look for intelligence and judgment and most critically a capacity to

anticipate, to see around corners.

311

00:20:04,075 --> 00:20:11,271

Also look for loyalty, integrity, a high energy drive, a balanced ego and the drive to get

things done.

312

00:20:11,271 --> 00:20:18,856

I don't know if I'm, if all of them are equal in my mind, like get think, getting things

done is a high power, but they're all soft skills, metacasters.

313

00:20:18,856 --> 00:20:25,851

And the point I was going to make is we very often, we look at hard skills for people and

I think hard skills are more trainable.

314

00:20:25,851 --> 00:20:29,403

We need you need training trainable folks for hard skills.

315

00:20:29,403 --> 00:20:36,187

But these soft skills, these character skills, these character attributes, which is what

he's talking about.

316

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Like someone who can look around corners is curious.

317

00:20:40,060 --> 00:20:40,790

my gosh.

318

00:20:40,790 --> 00:20:44,732

If you get a few of those folks in your team, that can that can be a godsend.

319

00:20:44,732 --> 00:20:46,894

If everyone is balanced egos.

320

00:20:46,894 --> 00:20:52,857

ah Another way of saying that is you don't you don't hire assholes, but you're you're

hiring balanced egos.

321

00:20:52,945 --> 00:20:58,407

I think those are the critical things that I've learned to focus on in building great

teams.

322

00:20:58,407 --> 00:21:01,408

ah And it's all about picking people.

323

00:21:01,629 --> 00:21:10,092

The reason I picked it as part of my top five, it's one of the most critical things we do

as leaders, as we compose, we orchestrate, we conduct.

324

00:21:11,253 --> 00:21:13,794

We conduct great teams.

325

00:21:13,794 --> 00:21:15,394

That's what we do.

326

00:21:15,394 --> 00:21:16,445

And you have to take that.

327

00:21:16,445 --> 00:21:22,177

I know I'm joking with my metaphor in a silly way, but I'm being absolutely dead serious.

328

00:21:22,223 --> 00:21:29,160

We need to be crisp and clean and visioned about how we put teams together.

329

00:21:29,300 --> 00:21:33,305

There's so many variations there and to be artful about it.

330

00:21:33,305 --> 00:21:34,089

Josh?

331

00:21:34,089 --> 00:21:38,814

Yeah, the challenge there is these are harder to detect.

332

00:21:38,914 --> 00:21:42,728

And so oftentimes people opt out of trying to figure that out.

333

00:21:42,728 --> 00:21:48,365

They look for the easy quicker way out of give me a checklist of technical skills and

experience.

334

00:21:48,365 --> 00:21:50,468

need five years of this and six of that and seven of that.

335

00:21:50,468 --> 00:21:52,348

And if they have those things cool, them.

336

00:21:53,117 --> 00:21:55,559

that's going to end up blowing up in your face.

337

00:21:55,559 --> 00:22:02,355

So you have to really invest in your hiring process to understand these soft skills, which

ones are most important to you.

338

00:22:02,355 --> 00:22:05,327

And then you have to devise a way and it's hard.

339

00:22:05,327 --> 00:22:10,501

It's very difficult to be able to figure that out in a hiring process.

340

00:22:10,501 --> 00:22:19,879

But when you do, when you develop patterns and practices that allow you to figure that

out, your team will accelerate faster than you can ever imagine.

341

00:22:19,879 --> 00:22:22,401

Because what I found is that when

342

00:22:22,803 --> 00:22:30,158

When you stack up a bunch of people like this together, just get out of the freaking way,

right?

343

00:22:30,158 --> 00:22:32,099

And just let them go.

344

00:22:32,493 --> 00:22:35,361

that, I agree a million percent.

345

00:22:36,305 --> 00:22:37,936

My next one is 16, Josh.

346

00:22:37,936 --> 00:22:38,556

What's your next?

347

00:22:38,556 --> 00:22:41,287

Okay.

348

00:22:41,287 --> 00:22:48,130

So the commander in the field is always right and the rear echelon is wrong unless proved

otherwise.

349

00:22:48,130 --> 00:22:55,153

And I think of this, that sounds very militaristic and it is, I mean, that's his

leadership journey, the majority of it.

350

00:22:55,153 --> 00:23:01,415

ah But I think of it as hierarchy and hierarchical organization pushing down

decision-making.

351

00:23:01,876 --> 00:23:05,597

When I've had senior level uh roles,

352

00:23:05,879 --> 00:23:17,412

I was listening intently to folks who were in the field, like someone who's in the team

writing the code, someone who's a product owner, who's talking to a customer.

353

00:23:17,572 --> 00:23:20,953

I mean, I can't tell you, I had a leadership role.

354

00:23:20,953 --> 00:23:22,493

was guiding an organization.

355

00:23:22,493 --> 00:23:24,554

was collaborating with product.

356

00:23:25,094 --> 00:23:27,955

I had all of this responsibility, all of this stuff.

357

00:23:27,955 --> 00:23:36,087

But when it came to sort of, you know, who's right, who's wrong or where the decision's

coming from, my ears went down.

358

00:23:36,625 --> 00:23:39,185

And it wasn't just, and it wasn't artificial listening.

359

00:23:39,185 --> 00:23:40,625

It was deep listening.

360

00:23:40,625 --> 00:23:45,925

It was, and I try to, I try to get different voices or different points of view from a

team.

361

00:23:45,925 --> 00:23:47,925

Does anyone else, does everyone else agree with that?

362

00:23:47,925 --> 00:23:49,685

Does someone else see it a different way?

363

00:23:49,685 --> 00:23:57,105

And I'm trying to get those in the field or where the rubber meets the road, all of those

euphemisms.

364

00:23:57,305 --> 00:23:59,385

That's leadership to me.

365

00:23:59,385 --> 00:24:01,405

And I've seen the reverse.

366

00:24:01,405 --> 00:24:06,545

I had so many leaders, Josh, you probably not work this way, but leaders are getting in a

room.

367

00:24:06,577 --> 00:24:14,797

I'm like people who haven't designed a freaking app in 10 years and they're deciding crap

in a room or they haven't talked.

368

00:24:14,797 --> 00:24:17,537

They've talked to customer execs, but they haven't.

369

00:24:17,537 --> 00:24:21,997

They haven't talked to who uses the damn product that they're building, right?

370

00:24:21,997 --> 00:24:28,857

Their product owners have, but they're acting like, well, I talked to, you know, the CEO,

the blah, blah, blah, blah.

371

00:24:28,857 --> 00:24:30,637

And I know what they want.

372

00:24:30,637 --> 00:24:36,697

No, you don't have the humility, have the humility, have the wherewithal to go low.

373

00:24:36,859 --> 00:24:38,149

to go low.

374

00:24:38,149 --> 00:24:44,631

And what is it that hippo thing or whatever the highest paid person in the org or in the

room?

375

00:24:45,051 --> 00:24:45,621

Yeah.

376

00:24:45,621 --> 00:24:50,133

And that the whole notion of that is the hippo controls the room.

377

00:24:50,133 --> 00:24:52,173

No, I would say what's up?

378

00:24:52,173 --> 00:24:52,803

What's the reverse?

379

00:24:52,803 --> 00:24:54,414

The baby hippo.

380

00:24:55,894 --> 00:25:05,788

No, not the not the biggest, fattest person in the room, but the baby hippos or the

whatever the worker bees, maybe the worker bees are what you should be listening to.

381

00:25:05,788 --> 00:25:08,690

Yeah, I, this one is on my list as well.

382

00:25:08,690 --> 00:25:14,894

And I agree with everything Bob said, but I want to put a slightly different spin on this.

383

00:25:15,214 --> 00:25:24,684

So this evoked a feeling of me very similar to the story of the person in the, the, the

arena, right?

384

00:25:24,684 --> 00:25:30,004

So the story of the person actually out there doing the thing.

385

00:25:30,012 --> 00:25:33,892

is living it is trying to do things that others aren't.

386

00:25:33,892 --> 00:25:45,412

But there's a ton of folks that are up in the stands, watching having opinions, talking to

each other about what the person in the arena is doing wrong, and how they would do better

387

00:25:45,412 --> 00:25:46,292

if they were there.

388

00:25:46,292 --> 00:25:49,232

Well, you know what, then get in the freaking arena and make it happen.

389

00:25:49,232 --> 00:25:55,352

But don't sit up on the stands and chirp about somebody's doing something wrong without

actually getting it done.

390

00:25:55,352 --> 00:25:55,652

Right?

391

00:25:55,652 --> 00:25:56,324

This is

392

00:25:56,324 --> 00:26:05,400

is the thing that happens a lot, especially when you're pushing the envelope and trying

things is there will be people that will be on the outside talking about, that's going to

393

00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:05,721

fail.

394

00:26:05,721 --> 00:26:06,781

That's going to be a mess.

395

00:26:06,781 --> 00:26:08,012

that's not going to work.

396

00:26:08,012 --> 00:26:09,473

There's no way that's going to happen.

397

00:26:09,473 --> 00:26:10,224

okay, cool.

398

00:26:10,224 --> 00:26:10,784

That's fine.

399

00:26:10,784 --> 00:26:18,079

You're allowed to think that but that's not going to change the thing that we're doing

because we've done everything that Bob just talked about.

400

00:26:18,079 --> 00:26:24,828

There are members of our team that have talked to people doing the work and they have said

if you build this we will we will fork over

401

00:26:24,828 --> 00:26:29,508

so much money because it will change our lives and we are going to be so much happier.

402

00:26:29,508 --> 00:26:33,328

We're going to be able to accomplish more for our customers, which means we can accomplish

more.

403

00:26:33,328 --> 00:26:43,208

That's because we've done the work because we've invested just like Bob said, we have the

confidence and willingness to go left when there's a whole group of people over there

404

00:26:43,208 --> 00:26:44,948

saying, hey, you should go right.

405

00:26:44,948 --> 00:26:49,968

But to Bob's point, they are the ones that are living it and have actually talked to the

people.

406

00:26:50,148 --> 00:26:51,308

So I agree with this.

407

00:26:51,308 --> 00:26:53,108

I get fired up about this.

408

00:26:53,108 --> 00:26:54,728

But yeah, okay.

409

00:26:54,780 --> 00:26:55,750

I'll stop.

410

00:26:55,750 --> 00:26:57,980

what's your, do you have any more Josh?

411

00:26:57,980 --> 00:27:01,480

I have number 17 and I bet you have number 18.

412

00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:02,300

Oh, okay.

413

00:27:02,300 --> 00:27:03,040

Okay.

414

00:27:03,620 --> 00:27:04,680

Yeah.

415

00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:05,980

Yeah.

416

00:27:05,980 --> 00:27:07,640

don't we do it this way?

417

00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:12,028

Why don't I, I was torn, I'll defer 17 and I'll take 18.

418

00:27:12,028 --> 00:27:14,300

talked about number 18 enough, right?

419

00:27:14,300 --> 00:27:15,130

We've covered that.

420

00:27:15,130 --> 00:27:25,336

So number 18 for everybody, if you haven't clicked on the link that's in the description,

it's...

421

00:27:25,336 --> 00:27:27,257

17, have fun in your command.

422

00:27:27,257 --> 00:27:29,878

Don't always run at a breakneck pace.

423

00:27:29,878 --> 00:27:31,339

Take a leave when you've earned it.

424

00:27:31,339 --> 00:27:33,200

Spend time with your families.

425

00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:38,703

Corollary, surround yourself with people who take the work seriously, but not themselves.

426

00:27:38,703 --> 00:27:40,884

Those who work hard and play hard.

427

00:27:41,796 --> 00:27:47,798

I love it until that last part, the work hard and play hard is one of those things just

kind of gives me the willies.

428

00:27:47,958 --> 00:27:51,489

I agree with it, that's fine, but I just, that saying drives me crazy.

429

00:27:51,489 --> 00:27:57,000

But this is something that is important to me because I've not always been good at this.

430

00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:08,664

This is something that I've had to work really hard at because I have a bit of workaholism

and it's a thing where I just, when things go bad, when life gets tough, my answer is put

431

00:28:08,664 --> 00:28:10,284

my head down and work harder.

432

00:28:10,434 --> 00:28:19,472

And I have not been good enough throughout my career at allowing myself to take a break,

take a pause, refresh and recharge.

433

00:28:19,472 --> 00:28:23,456

My answer has always been work harder, work faster, do all that stuff.

434

00:28:23,456 --> 00:28:25,788

And that has ground me into the ground.

435

00:28:25,788 --> 00:28:30,122

And it has done the same thing for some of my teams and my family at times.

436

00:28:30,122 --> 00:28:37,916

So this is one of those things that is very important to me uh because I have to work

really hard.

437

00:28:37,916 --> 00:28:38,916

to make this happen.

438

00:28:38,916 --> 00:28:41,056

And I've seen what happens when I don't do it.

439

00:28:41,056 --> 00:28:44,696

And I see what happens when I do make it happen.

440

00:28:44,696 --> 00:28:49,616

So it's always at the front of my mind of, hey, slow down, take a step back.

441

00:28:49,616 --> 00:28:51,356

It's gonna be okay.

442

00:28:51,976 --> 00:28:53,396

The work's not going anywhere.

443

00:28:53,396 --> 00:28:54,656

It'll be there tomorrow.

444

00:28:54,656 --> 00:28:56,896

You know, all those things that are out there.

445

00:28:56,896 --> 00:29:01,876

So this is the thing that cuts me deep because I've not always been great at it.

446

00:29:01,876 --> 00:29:04,016

So this is an important one.

447

00:29:04,016 --> 00:29:08,707

that I want to make sure if you made it this far into the podcast that you make sure this

is when you take home with you.

448

00:29:08,707 --> 00:29:14,870

I mean, I don't think, I think very few leaders are inherently good at this right out of

the gate, Josh.

449

00:29:14,870 --> 00:29:18,691

I mean, it's, I think it's something that they have to, unfortunately we have to learn.

450

00:29:18,691 --> 00:29:21,432

The thing I want to, it's a little different than your spin.

451

00:29:21,432 --> 00:29:25,392

I just want to drill in on the first sentence.

452

00:29:25,434 --> 00:29:28,435

Have fun in your command.

453

00:29:28,935 --> 00:29:33,797

And so I think one of my superpowers as a leader and don't burst my bubble Josh.

454

00:29:33,797 --> 00:29:38,159

So just let me believe this is a super superpower.

455

00:29:38,971 --> 00:29:41,992

I have a sense of humor.

456

00:29:42,332 --> 00:29:47,273

When the pressure is on, one of my pressure relief is joking.

457

00:29:47,433 --> 00:30:00,817

And I almost become more of a smarty pants and irreverent and just finding the fun in

things and high fiving with folks and trying to de-stress situation.

458

00:30:00,817 --> 00:30:03,237

It's just part of who I am.

459

00:30:03,458 --> 00:30:08,319

And over time, I'm just like, even the toughest job,

460

00:30:08,611 --> 00:30:10,351

Have fun with it.

461

00:30:10,351 --> 00:30:11,951

Just look for the fun.

462

00:30:11,951 --> 00:30:12,991

Create fun.

463

00:30:12,991 --> 00:30:17,251

Maybe if you can't find any, then your job is to create the fun.

464

00:30:17,251 --> 00:30:18,631

Be an observer.

465

00:30:18,931 --> 00:30:22,931

And the fun starts with making fun of yourself.

466

00:30:23,531 --> 00:30:25,091

Making fun of you.

467

00:30:25,091 --> 00:30:27,651

Not taking myself too seriously.

468

00:30:27,851 --> 00:30:34,531

And that's really hard to do when the shit is hitting the fan and the pressure's on or

there's bugs in the field and customers yelling.

469

00:30:34,531 --> 00:30:37,603

But at the same time, that is a...

470

00:30:37,603 --> 00:30:43,583

That is a phase shift that to get things done, that you can de-stress things.

471

00:30:43,583 --> 00:30:46,023

So I don't get flustered with stuff.

472

00:30:46,023 --> 00:30:53,863

If I'm joking, you sometimes people misinterpret me, you know, when the stress is really

up, I sound almost like a clown to some degree.

473

00:30:53,863 --> 00:30:55,583

It's like, do you not care?

474

00:30:55,583 --> 00:30:58,103

And I'm like, I certainly care.

475

00:30:58,543 --> 00:31:01,223

I grabbed the red nose.

476

00:31:02,163 --> 00:31:07,425

So, but in all seriousness, have fun in your command.

477

00:31:07,425 --> 00:31:11,409

MediCasters ask yourself, are you having fun?

478

00:31:11,409 --> 00:31:13,690

Are you creating fun?

479

00:31:14,071 --> 00:31:16,712

Are you the igniter of fun?

480

00:31:16,933 --> 00:31:17,473

Right?

481

00:31:17,473 --> 00:31:21,756

Are you the role model of fun, of joy, of happiness?

482

00:31:21,857 --> 00:31:25,139

And if you want to scale one, where are you?

483

00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:29,483

And then think deeply to yourself, how do I lean into more fun?

484

00:31:29,623 --> 00:31:33,066

And it's not just a Bob Galen thing.

485

00:31:33,066 --> 00:31:35,938

I think your results,

486

00:31:35,938 --> 00:31:38,009

your impact will increase.

487

00:31:38,009 --> 00:31:44,431

I've seen so many sour leaders and they get sourer when the pressure's on.

488

00:31:44,792 --> 00:31:45,092

Right?

489

00:31:45,092 --> 00:31:56,757

It's like, you can, you can tell it's like, you know, I want to take them, put them in a

bathroom and just say, in there until you get happier.

490

00:31:56,997 --> 00:32:00,238

You know, come on, relieve yourself.

491

00:32:00,359 --> 00:32:01,899

They look awful.

492

00:32:01,899 --> 00:32:03,480

And that's not

493

00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,991

And it's not good for them and it's not good for everyone around them.

494

00:32:06,991 --> 00:32:09,236

So really lean into fun.

495

00:32:09,958 --> 00:32:12,992

I don't know how to top that.

496

00:32:12,992 --> 00:32:14,273

I don't need to top that, right?

497

00:32:14,273 --> 00:32:16,015

I think Bob did what Bob does.

498

00:32:16,015 --> 00:32:17,336

Bob nailed it.

499

00:32:18,918 --> 00:32:21,030

I think the fork has been stuck.

500

00:32:21,698 --> 00:32:27,276

And Medicare is a final final forkage is that command is lonely thing.

501

00:32:27,276 --> 00:32:38,798

Go back and review some of our older episodes when we done have talked about that because

it is a thing and it's a real thing and it's central to your leadership.

502

00:32:38,798 --> 00:32:42,443

And the better you are at it, the more lonely it is.

503

00:32:43,509 --> 00:32:45,081

Amen brother, right?

504

00:32:45,081 --> 00:32:45,782

So it's hard.

505

00:32:45,782 --> 00:32:47,514

It's a real challenge and it's a personal challenge.

506

00:32:47,514 --> 00:32:49,496

It's not so much an outside challenges.

507

00:32:49,496 --> 00:32:52,559

It's an inside out challenge for you.

508

00:32:52,559 --> 00:32:54,702

And it's one that you have to come to grips with.

509

00:32:54,702 --> 00:33:02,089

with that, hope Colin Powell, let's have a moment of silence for the great general and

statesman, Colin Powell.

510

00:33:02,089 --> 00:33:03,350

Five seconds.

511

00:33:03,591 --> 00:33:04,493

He was a great man.

512

00:33:04,493 --> 00:33:07,641

All right, Metacasters, from beautiful downtown Cary, North Carolina.

513

00:33:07,641 --> 00:33:11,343

know, I feel bad because I couldn't do that without a smile on my face.

514

00:33:11,343 --> 00:33:13,104

We're trying to honor somebody.

515

00:33:13,104 --> 00:33:16,526

I could just, just because we go back to the fun of Bob, right?

516

00:33:16,526 --> 00:33:17,567

The fun of Bob.

517

00:33:17,567 --> 00:33:19,377

I'm sitting there and like, what a jerk I am.

518

00:33:19,377 --> 00:33:21,098

I'm trying to, trying to be quiet.

519

00:33:21,098 --> 00:33:22,209

got a smirk on my face.

520

00:33:22,209 --> 00:33:24,430

Cause I'm laughing about Bob in my brain.

521

00:33:24,430 --> 00:33:27,112

Oh my gosh.

522

00:33:27,112 --> 00:33:27,592

Okay.

523

00:33:27,592 --> 00:33:28,432

So yes.

524

00:33:28,432 --> 00:33:28,813

Okay.

525

00:33:28,813 --> 00:33:29,913

So from

526

00:33:30,102 --> 00:33:32,887

So, so for beautiful down that carry North Carolina.

527

00:33:32,887 --> 00:33:36,031

And for beautiful downtown Fuqua Verena, North Carolina.

528

00:33:36,031 --> 00:33:39,588

I'm Bob the Hitman Galen.

529

00:33:39,703 --> 00:33:43,761

And I'm Josh the anvil Anderson.

530

00:33:44,865 --> 00:33:45,425

Fake.

531

00:33:45,425 --> 00:33:49,394

Oh, gosh.