Dr. Max Gulhane: The key part about why people are eating so much,

you know, we talk about the hyperpalatability of

carbohydrates and sugar addictions and, and

breakdown products of linoleic acid, which all

are undoubtedly playing a role in food addiction.

But the absence of that regulated circadian

rhythm and the cues that are being sent by

artificial light exposure I look at as umbrella

kind of causes of, of things like carbohydrate

addiction, leptin resistance and insulin

resistance. So we can kind of attack the problem

later down the causal tree.

Welcome to the QVC podcast where we explore new

paradigms in health and science that have a

meaningful impact on our day to day lives. I'm

your host Meredith Oak, a curious coach and mom.

I started a journey to overcome chronic fatigue

and found myself in a whole new quantum universe.

I believe new research shouldn't stay locked away

in an ivory tower and that wisdom can be found in

many places and understood by all of us. To keep

in touch with this podcast, the QVC free

community, our episode guide and all the show

notes, please visit qbcpod.com qbcpod.com let's

get together to create the future we all want to

live in. Dr. Max Gulhan is a family physician

based in New South Wales, Australia and is the

host of the wonderful Regenerative Health

podcast. Early in his career, Dr. Gulhane

observed the failure of the pharmaceutical based

medical model to adequately address chronic

illness and prevent disease. And he began a

journey starting with diet and leading to light

to understand the best way to manage the common

complaints and illnesses he was seeing in his

practice. In this episode, Dr. Gulhane explains

why light and circadian rhythms are so important,

why we need a nature based light dark cycle as

the foundation of our health, and why most light

bulbs are the equivalent of junk food. We cover a

lot of other ground in this conversation as well.

Those are the key points. Enjoy. Welcome Dr. Max

Gulhane. It is an absolute pleasure to be doing

this podcast with you. For anyone who doesn't

know, Dr. Gulhane is the host of his own podcast

called the Regenerative Health Podcast. It's

excellent. I highly recommend anyone. If you like

this podcast, you will like his. So if you

haven't checked it out, go ahead and do that.

There's some great episodes there. So Dr.

Gulhane, tell us a little bit about your

background, what you, you know, what you did

traditionally and then how you sort of made the

pivot into this weird, weird and wonderful world

of quantum and circadian biology.

Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah, thank you so much, Meredith, for having me

on and really respect what you're doing with the

quantum biology collective here. So I'll give you

an idea about what I, yeah, how I got into this.

I've approached quantum health Originally my

health journey was through the dietary, dietary

stuff. The short story is that I essentially had

quite bad acne that I developed in my early,

early twenties, a bit later than everyone

normally gets skin problems. And what I found

worked really effectively for those symptoms was

a low carbohydrate and then a carnivore type

diet. And that kind of journey was precipitated

or hurried along by my encounter with the

healthcare system, with dermatologists and

general practitioners who were very readily and

very able to prescribe medications, but didn't

discuss lifestyle in any real meaningful way that

would effectively move the needle. So I guess

like a lot of the listeners that are tuning in or

listen to your podcast, it was a situation of the

patient working out how to treat themselves most

effectively and not getting that information

given to them, which I think is, I guess that's

one of the key problems that I'm hoping to try

and help with both with my podcast and events and

things like this is because it shouldn't be up to

the layperson to kind of wade through, you know,

all the dietary light circadian stuff themselves.

I feel like that that's the goal of the medical

profession is to, to actually be able to heal

people. And, and we were talking off air a little

bit about, about your health journey and it's

onerous. And luckily, you know, I had a medical

background. I was going through a science degree,

I was going through medical school. So I guess I

had the scientific and intellectual training to

kind of make, make sense of things a bit quicker,

which was, which was helpful. But the problem

kind of kind of still exists, exists as well

today is that it's not as easy as it should be

for people to access and be supported with, you

know, with best, best practice kind of lifestyle

advice. So I, yeah, along this period I went

through a couple of heavy medications for acne.

Some of you, your listeners might know of

roacutane, which is a isotretino and it's quite a

heavy medication. And after that I kind of just

basically stopped it because I was having some

mood side effects. And around the same time I was

experimenting things like plant based diets. And

I guess following what was supposed to be the

mainstream's endorsed approach to treating any

health condition is go plant based, had a very,

very adverse reaction to that after about eight,

nine months. And then, yeah, found low carb

through. There's a, I guess it's quite similar to

what you're doing. It's called low carb down

Under. It's accumulation of videos that, by

doctors that help people inform on these kind of

topics. So you're really a parallel of that

resource, but from a quantum point of view. And

then got onto Carnivore, which I found was

really, really, really helpful. I guess how I got

into the light stuff is that amongst the whole

intellectual, I guess you could call it a

battleground on Twitter, there's different

factions and there's different warring parties

and Dr. Jack Cruz is an outsized figure in, in

this kind of, in, in this arena. So I'm not sure

exactly how I found him, but someone must have

linked, linked him a video. And I basically went

down my own kind of rabbit hole because even

though I was, I'd experienced such benefits on

Carnivore, I wasn't, I wasn't necessarily happy

to, to say, okay, that's all there is. And I get

a feeling that some players in the health space

are content to hit a intellectual boundary of a

dietary paradigm and not progress any further.

But I don't like to do that. I always, I'm asking

why, why, why, why, why? And going deeper and

deeper and especially with, with someone like

Cruz and other people in the space, you know,

hanging such juicy intellectual carrots and

making claims that I need to investigate for

myself. So, yeah, some. Somewhere along the line

I found him and went down a whole bunch of his

interviews and the whole. For about, you know,

four or five years I'd been wearing blue light

blocking glasses because I kind of had an

intuition that it was something I should do and I

felt better when I did it. But it wasn't until

the past, probably year or year and a half that I

really launched deeper into exactly why they're

so effective and why we should be doing it. And

then this has kind of culminated and I obviously,

I started my podcast in December and then I met,

met, met someone at a conference and they

introduced me online to Dr. Cruz and I've kind

of, I've recorded my, my cruise series. There's

three podcasts in that so far. And then

subsequently interviewed Carrie Bennett and, and,

and kind of engaging and really now delving into

the quantum side of things. But, but that's,

that's where I'm at at the moment. And, and I'm

a. So I did medical school, I worked in emergency

medicine for a while and now I'm seeing my own

patients in the context of family medicine and

I've really got the opportunity to discuss about

circadian health. And I don't have one on me, but

I've actually made up a little flyer which I give

out to people and I think it's about, just got

six points on it. And I just explain about the

8020 of circadian health. Seeing the morning

sunrise, getting out throughout the day to get

some sun on the skin, creating a low light

environment, wearing blue light blockers and

ideally turning off WI fi during, during the

night. So that kind of journey and the journey of

learning about quantum biology is I guess gotten

me to the point where I'm comfortable talking

about it as an adjunct lifestyle advice to my

patients. And I guess what my job is or the way I

sit, one way I see my job is to kind of listen to

my patients, listen to their story, listen to

what is going on and I guess pick from a toolbox

of lifestyle interventions which one is going to

be the most effective to help their particular

problem based on what they can do with their

knowledge, what they're prepared to change. And I

think the quantum stuff is invaluable as part of

that.

Yes. And I think it's really interesting what you

were saying about the warring factions on Twitter

or wherever there are and that because people get

so locked into like a, into the food dogma and

you know, my background is in, is in coaching,

executive coaching and helping people sort of

change, change their behaviors. So I have spent a

lot of time reading and thinking about that and I

notice and in my experience, when something

helps, right. So if you do switch to a certain

type of diet and it does solve some of your

problems, we tend to get extremely attached to

that and to whoever introduced us to and to the

very specific criteria of that. And then we

became, we become very dogmatic about whatever it

is, the food or the lifestyle intervention. And

for me I wasn't able to do that. A, I don't like,

I'm not a super big food person. So I found doing

all these food, different types of food

interventions challenging and so I didn't want to

get attached to them. And B, it wasn't working

right. Like I the idea that like, oh, maybe I'm

just not doing the food hard enough, that's why

I'm not getting better. You know, the results

just weren't there. So what I like, what I love

about quantum biology is like there's really no

dogma like you can do, you can eat whatever you

want. You just are understanding what is

happening from a certain perspective. Right.

Aside from some of the protocols that you just

mentioned in terms of optimizing light

environments, like, there's really no dogma in

this field. It's a totally wide open.

Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah, yeah. And I, I interviewed recovering vegan

Giselle Besson in one of my early episodes and

she described exactly what you talk about,

Meredith, which was in within the vegan ideology

there was if people were falling sick or they're

not getting better, there was this idea that

you're not veganing hard enough. You know, you're

not doing it enough. And, and which is obviously,

you know, we've, we've strayed into the territory

of, of relig by the time, by the time you're not

veganing hard enough. And I think to a certain

degree that can be also the case in the Carnivore

point of view is that perhaps if you're having

issues, you're not doing it enough or hard

enough. What I would think or what I think now is

that there are certain problems that are light

problems and food can't solve a light problem.

And, and certain patients who are basically being

held together so they're feeling better and their

symptoms are improved on Carnivore. But you can

see that if you remove that piece of string and

that band aid, things would fall apart. So to me

that's pointing to a deeper issue and we're not

yet getting at the root cause. It's helping, but

we're not yet solving that kind of root cause

issue. But for that reason, that's why I still

support Carnivore in that for someone living at a

lower latitude, particularly here in Albury

during the winter, it's very difficult to get a

meaningful amount of sunlight throughout the day.

If it's very overcast, yes, we can get outside

and still get some solar exposure, but it still

has a place in, again, maintaining people if for

whatever other reason they can't change things

like their latitude or the place that they live.

Yes, absolutely. And then the diet and the light

work together and everyone's situation is

slightly different. But there are some

fundamental pieces and I find too, again from my

coaching perspective, people also tend to be very

all or nothing, like, oh, well, it's either food

or light or it's either this or that or I should

throw out everything I've been doing and just do,

just do light stuff. And I think we focus very

heavily on light because it, it is a missing

piece that has not been focused on. But once you

Bring that in. Like all. It's a holistic

perspective, right? Like every. Everything

matters.

Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah, yeah, I, I do. And what you said earlier, I

think there is a tendency within even health is

for people to basically get behind, as you said,

what worked for them and find ways of

scientifically justifying their own personal

biases. So whatever works for them, they're going

to keep kind of cheerleading. So it is, it is

difficult to try and maintain impartiality in the

face of, of your own personal lived experience,

however effective that has been. But I agree that

there is, there isn't a one size fits all.

Everyone's going to have a different percentage

response to each different intervention, whether

that's someone who really can't tolerate any

light after sunset. And some people really find

benefit from, you know, cutting out vegetables.

So everyone's going to respond differently. And

for that reason, like you said, I emphasize food.

Diet, like diet. I say that to my patients. You

know, optimal health lies somewhere in the middle

of these. And yeah, you want to be doing most of

them and most that you're able to. If you, if, if

your health is a problem and you need to get back

to that thriving point of view, that state of

being.

Yes. And I love that food diet, light diet,

because I think one of the other things is that,

you know, and we, we talk about this a lot in the

certification, right? Like if all the research

on, on margarine came out, right, and we found

out that actually margarine is really bad for

you. Everyone's like, okay, I'm going to take

margarine out of the healthy food category and

move it over to the toxic food category. Got it.

But when you say to somebody like, your light

bulbs are toxic, they're like, what are you

talking about? Right? Like, we don't even have a

framework for good light, bad light. We don't

even think about it in those terms. So I love

that that you're framing it that way for your

patients and for someone who's new, how, how

would you explain what healthy light is versus

what toxic light is or unhealthy light?

Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah, I was having this exact conversation with

the last patient of the day yesterday, and I

pointed up to the fluorescent bulb in my clinic

room that I try and keep off most of the day, but

when it's overcast and dark in Aubry, I have to

turn it on. I'll have my blue blockers on. But I

said to him, I said, look, that, that is the meth

of light. Like, that's, that's the

methamphetamine of light it that it's an isolated

blue wavelength, it's not balanced by red. It has

no non visible, you know, infrared or any other

type of non visible wavelength. It is, you know,

the color temperature of the midday. And when you

exposed to it at the wrong time or in general,

but particularly at the wrong time later in the

day, after dark, you are stimulating yourself

massively by that light signal. And that's going

to prevent your body from making the melatonin

hormone. It's going to promote your body's

cortisol level, all this kind of thing. So I try

and explain it that just like there's junk food,

there's also junk light. And it's, it's a, it's a

highly refined form of light. And this is a, the

way that I explain food, food products to people

is if you're eating something that's processed,

anything that's processed is, is by humans is

going to be bad for you. Whether it's processed

wheat, you know, processed seed oils, processed

coca leaf, you know, anything that humans have

refined and purified is, is suboptimal. And that,

that analogy I think maps beautifully onto light

as well. So whenever you've got that blue light

that's been presented without the other

wavelengths, you've got a problem. And it also

helps to bring up the light basically spectra. I

often do that for my patients and I show them,

look at what natural daylight look like, look how

balanced it is across all the different visible

colors and then look at led, look at or all these

different sources. And that's a great way of

communicating to patients. Well, hang on, this is

not natural. And I think we don't have to go too

complex or too deep into it to just, that's a

visual depiction of something that's obviously

not natural. So yeah, that's kind of my general

approach. For someone who's got no idea or.

No background in it, that makes a lot of sense. I

like that a lot. So the light that comes out of

the sun is different at different types of times

of day, but it tends to have a full spectrum.

Whereas the light that comes out of a light bulb

is like processed light in the way that refined

sugar is processed or refined flour is processed

and it's harsh and narrow. So we don't have all

of those other frequencies balancing anything out.

Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah, and like to your point earlier, people just

don't have an understanding or framework of, of

this. You know, people have an inclination that

eating refined sugar is bad. You know, a Lot of

people have an inclination that eating vegetable

oils is, is not intuitively healthy for them. But

you know, every new house that's being, that gets

built in Australia and in these, in estates, they

have led down lights and they're the harshest,

whitest, harshest, widest light you can, you can

find. And you know, there's the street lights in

these places are blaring. So people are getting

light into their bedrooms. They're not having a

fully dark, dark bedroom. And then the WI fi

router, the Internet ethernet port is in the

walking closet or opposite the main bedroom. So

where people are default plugging their WI fi

routers in is going to be next to very close to

where they sleep. So the whole, not only do

people not have a framework for understanding how

harmful this light environment, this artificial

light environment is, the whole environment, the

built environment, whether that's at home or at

work, is also set up for the exact opposite of

what you and I know to be an optimal human light

environment. So there's no wonder why people are

sick, overweight, or having carbohydrate

addictions. All these problems that we know have

a deep contribution by their light environment.

It's, that's why I respect what you're doing so

much. Because we really need to give an awareness

that, that this is not normal, this is not

natural, and this is very, very meaningfully

impacting health.

Yes. So explain to us what's happening. So let's

start with, with the harmful piece and then we'll

talk about the healing piece, which would be, you

know, going out in natural sunlight, especially

in the morning. But so the harmful piece is I

come home from work at the end of the day, it's

starting to get dark out. I throw on my overhead

led, I turn on the television, I'm scrolling on

my phone, and I do that till like 11 o'clock at

night. And then I shut it all off and go to bed.

And there's still some of those super harsh

street lights coming through the cracks in the

blinds. And it's not quite dark and I can still

kind of see, but whatever, that's the way it is.

And then I wonder why I'm not sleeping well. So

if that's my sort of environment, what is that

light doing to my body? What is the effect?

Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah, so I think of it as you're basically not

giving your body a break, you're not allowing

your body to recover. And the reason why is

because prior to the invention of the electricity

grid, the only sources of light that we had were

candlelight, firelight after dark. And prior to

organized civilization, for the millions of years

of human evolution, we were adapted and evolved

to having periods of distinct absence of light.

So we had sun rising, we had a changing but

balanced exposure to sunlight with visible and

non, non visible spectra that that changed and

modulated throughout the day. That was in a

constant state of programming our biological

functions. And then it ended and there was

complete darkness. And during that period the

body was able to go into its, you know, nocturnal

or its sleep mode with a whole bunch of, of

hormonal actions taking place, particular of that

melatonin hormone from your pineal gland. So

that's kind of the norm. That was what allowed us

to exist and that's what we were adapted to. I

think that's the key point. What is normal, what

is natural? What does our biology need? And that

was it. It was absence of light at dark and it

was constant exposure to natural sunlight

frequencies. So with the invention of the

electric grid and then or fast forward all the

way up to today, the presence of that artificial

light at night is preventing us from accessing

that, that normal light absence period during,

during darkness that we need to recover. So when

that, when that's occurring, we're not making

melatonin, we're not, we have having cortisol

elevated, we're not recovering. And when we're

sending critically the wrong signals to our

biology about how to program the entire organism.

So that's how I think about it at a very high

level. Again it's just like people in this

society are used to eating every two hours. What

was evolutionarily normal that we would have

periods of fasting where we didn't have any food.

So that yin and Yang, the absence and the

presence, absence of food, presence of food,

absence of light, presence of food has been lost.

And now we're constantly just sipping from the

slurpee of artificial light all through the

night. And we can go into the exact mechanisms,

but that's critically the issue because you're

not allowing the body to recover and it has

deleterious effects on our ability to use glucose

to all the mitochondrial function, everything. So

that, that's I guess how I think about it at a

high level.

Lovely, thank you for that explanation. And

that's the explanation that I like to go with

that makes sense to me. Now I know that there are

people listening who are like he said, mechanism,

what is it? So let's, we will briefly, I don't

want to go go too deep into, into that side of

things. But the high level, the high level

explanation is that a lack of darkness and the

presence of artificial light is causing our

bodies to not be able to restore and repair them.

Repair the way we're supposed to when we're

sleeping. So what is the mechanism at play there?

Just briefly, we don't have to spend too long

here, but I know if I don't ask.

Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah, so. So it's the blue, the blue and green

wavelengths when they hit your retina, your eye.

And that light gets sensed by your non visual

photoreceptors, your intrinsically photosensitive

retinal ganglion cells. And there's the opsins,

like melanopsin, sense these light wavelengths

and they send signals all the way from your

retina to your hypothalamus to your

suprachiasmatic nucleus. And that affects the way

your body's, your, your body's ability to make

melatonin. So the melatonin hormones is secreted

by the pineal gland at nighttime, a couple of

hours after sunset, in, in the absence of light,

it gets secreted. So when we're exposed to these

artificial lights, we're telling the body, no,

don't make melatonin. Because again, you, you,

it's the color temperature of the daytime. It's a

daytime like signal. So you, you get that dump of

melatonin that we're supposed to make

appropriately. Plus, people haven't seen this

morning sunrise because their first light that

they've seen has been their phone when they've

woken up. So the programming, the coordination of

the circadian signaling from the beginning of the

day all the way to the point at which they lay

down is being disrupted and is being confused in

the absence of. I mean, melatonin is not the only

hormone. But there's a reason why shift workers

have increased risk of cancer. There's reasons

why vitamin D deficiency is associated with all

these cancers and ischemic heart disease and all

the rest. Because it's a proxy for sunlight

exposure, and it's a proxy for the

appropriateness of one's circadian rhythm. And

when those things are disrupted, then again, your

endogenous antioxidant system, which is governed

by melatonin, precisely, is out of whack. And

melatonin is not only secreted by the pineal

gland, this melatonin made in your mitochondria

by yourselves during the day on exposure to

infrared and UVA light. And that melatonin is

locally having an antioxidant effect. So if

people are not getting daytime sunlight and

they're also exposed to artificial light. They're

having the double whammy of lack of exposure,

lack of secretion of that local daytime melatonin

and the nighttime melatonin. So again, it's like

the antioxidant system isn't being properly

primed or properly allowed to function and you

get mitochondrial dysfunction, oxidative stress

and all these things. So yeah, that's I guess

again focused on the action to melatonin, but

that is how I think about it particularly.

Okay, so these are all the problems that we're

causing in our system by not having a

sufficiently dark or dim light environment in the

evening and while we're sleeping. So what is

going on when we go outside in the morning,

particularly at sunrise or UVA rise that those

first few hours of the day, how is that helping

us?

Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah, I see it as, as a, the signal, it's like

the, it's maybe it's almost like the, the band or

the orchestra is getting the cue to all start

playing at the same time. You know, otherwise

without, without that coordinating signal, you

know, everyone's kind of still warming up,

playing odd, odd notes at the wrong time. But the

critical aspect of that morning sunlight through

visible and non visible light and later, as you

said, the UVA comes in later in the day is that

we're basically pressing play on all our bodily

processes and getting them aligned and

coordinated to start. I love how Dr. J.

Montgomery describes it. It's like that your eye

is one of the most, it's a most powerful

neuroendocrine organ. So what people I guess

would benefit from understanding is that that eye

is sensing your light environment. It's not only

forming images, it's actually sensing the light

and the different wavelengths of light. And the

morning light is critical because it's

essentially setting you up for not only to start

the day, but it's also setting you up for that,

that night's sleep later in the day. So yeah, I

talked to Kerry Bennett about this and you know,

we, we made the comment that, you know, if

cutting out seed oils is the 8020 of nutrition,

then getting morning sunlight is probably, you

know, the 6040 of, of circadian biology just

because of how important it is in, in programming

everything.

Absolutely. And I think it's really interesting

because before I sort of came to all of this from

a, from a health and healing perspective, the

only time I thought about circadian rhythm was

when I traveled through time zones and became jet

lagged. And I kind of had a vague idea that like,

yeah, circadian rhythm is like why I feel tired

in the middle of the day when I'm in a different

time zone. But I had no understanding, and even

some of the foremost experts in circadian rhythms

had no understanding of just how critical having

a regulated circadian biology is. Could you

really bring that home for us? Because I think

that that's a piece that we often miss. I've come

to the place where I feel like it's basically

impossible to be healthy if your circadian

rhythms are misaligned.

Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah. And it ties back to the point we were

making earlier in the discussion, is that the

dietary stuff is important, and it will

definitely help, but it is a facet. I see dietary

interventions. And the biochemistry behind what

we do with diet is fitting into this wider. This

wider area of circadian and mitochondrial health,

which is fundamentally a problem of physics and

of biophysics. So the point is that all these

bodily functions do have a circadian regulation.

And I talked to Dr. Jack Cruz in my podcast

series about Pomse, and for the listeners, it's

essentially a gene that's expressed in a bunch of

neurons and a bunch of places in the body, but it

has all these different products that get made

when we're exposed to UV light that govern

metabolism, they govern the stress response, they

govern addiction centers. So the key. The key

part about why people are eating so much, you

know, we talk about the hyperpalatability of

carbohydrates and sugar addictions and. And the

breakdown products of linoleic acid, which all

are undoubtedly playing a role in. In food

addiction. But the absence of that regulated

circadian rhythm and the cues that are being sent

by artificial light exposure. Afternoon. A light

I look at as umbrella kind of causes of. Of

things like carbohydrate addiction, you know,

leptin resistance and insulin resistance. So we

can kind of attack the problem later down the

causal tree. And it's not to say that that, that

won't work. I mean, I. I'm. I just helped a

patient come, you know, half his insulin dose,

and we've only, you know, we. We're doing. On

the. We're doing a low carb diet. But I think

that if we could also get him regulated from a

circadian point of view, then the improvement

that we'd make would be even greater and getting

him out in the sun. So to answer the question, I

see it as the umbrella problem. The umbrella

problem is our. It's our regulated or lack of

regulated circadian rhythm. And the exposure to

all these artificial lights, whether they're

Visible like blue light or non visible like WI fi

and the rest of those types of non native emf.

Right. And so what kind of outcomes are you

seeing in your practice and with your patients

for? Let's start with people who are able to

comply with your suggested light protocols.

What's happening with those people?

Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah, so people, people just feel a lot more

grounded. They feel a lot better. A lot of people

have just described again, what you, what you've

said to me, which is, you know, they felt it was

kind of the missing piece in, in what they have

been doing. I mean, one of my favorite stories is

a old couple, an old lady in her 80s who, who

hadn't slept through the night in the past

probably 15 years. And I just said to her, look,

because I'm a little bit careful with the

elderly, with the low light environment because I

don't want them to fall over after dark, but I

just said, go sit on the porch and see the

sunrise every morning without any kind of glasses

on. And just sitting out there with her husband

every morning was enough to. She came back

ecstatic that she'd slept through the night and

was sleeping through the night for the first time

in over a decade. So really simple and nothing

fancy. But yeah, those type of stories are, are

very, very common. And yeah, people, people are

finding that, you know, often I'm seeing a lot of

patients who perhaps have been through

naturopaths, a couple maybe functional doctors

and you know, they're on a, they're on a list of,

of supplements and that no one's talked about

their line environment. And again, it's like,

yeah, we can add all these things in. But you

know, maybe you listeners of Red, Nassim Taleb,

he's got a concept of via Negativa, which is

first remove the bad before we add things on. And

I think removing that or improving that line

environment should be in terms of order of

operations. It takes precedent. Before we add,

you know, a list of expensive supplements.

Yeah, yeah, I really come to think that as well.

And again, when I first got into that, like I was

saying earlier, we have that all or nothing

thinking, I was like, I'm never taking a

supplement ever again. It's all about light. So

I've now sort of softened that stance and I do

think that supplementation has its place. But as

you said, after you've optimized your light

environment. Because how, like, how can a

practitioner even know what supplement would be

useful to somebody if their body is in total

circadian chaos? Right. If they're totally

dysregulated if they're not. Like if you put

someone on a melatonin supplement when the

problem could be fixed with light, like you're

not solving any problems, as you pointed out.

Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah, yeah. And the point I wanted to make as

well is that you know that, that the light part,

the signals like the retinal hypothalamic tract

that goes from your eye to your hypothalamus,

that projects to your pituitary gland and the

regulation of all those pituitary hormones is

influenced by, by our light environment. So it's

not just the pineal and the melatonin, but

everything along all these axes, the ovarian, the

adrenal, everything, the thyroid, all these axes

have an influence by, by light signal. And the

coordination of a lot of these hormones which

follow diurnal curves is influenced by the light

environment. And the other point, Meredith, is

that this is not like hoodoo or it's not like

this is not science that exists. If you look in

PubMed and you type in these findings, there is a

massive body of scientific literature that is

describing everything that we're talking about

and as is the case with a range of lifestyle

medicine, is that that scientific foundation is

simply not being translated or applied in a

clinical practice setting. It's not because

there's an absence of evidence of efficacy. It's

simply that the guidelines are not reflecting

what we know to be true and effective. And we say

the same thing in the dietary low carb paradigm.

And there's lots of different reasons for that,

but one could, especially a patient or other

doctors who might be listening. One could be

misled to think that this is very, very fringe,

or there's simply not the evidence to justify

what we're talking about. But it takes a very,

very cursory look at the evidence in the

literature to even. You can look up Wikipedia if

you, if you don't want to go that deep. But

everything that we've talked about is very well

researched and, and applied, kind of established.

And the application of the knowledge through

things like blue light blocking glasses and red

lights and all this kind of thing is simply the

application of that science that already exists.

So I just want to make that point to some of your

listeners who might think this is fringe. It's.

If you look yourself and not rely on a filter of

perhaps mainstream medicine, functional medicine,

all these entities that have their own reasons,

often financial, for promoting certain treatment

protocols over others, if you do your own

research, you'll find that what we've been

talking about is very well established.

That is a really, really good point. Yes. The

research just on circadian rhythm alone is. I

mean, I feel like every month some major new

paper comes out just showing just how important

it is. And last summer, the New York Times

Magazine did a huge cover story. It was like 10

pages long on circadian rhythm. And there's like

an anecdote in there where some of the research

came out that showed just how, how important it

is. And the, the head of the Circadian Research

Institute was like, what? Really? Oh, we, we were

just, we were just thinking like light and like

sort of light cycles, and they had no idea. So

it. Yes, it is. Absolutely. The evidence is all

there and that's what we talk about a lot. And

why, like, we started the certification is like.

And what you're doing with your podcast, it's

like building a bridge from the science into the

practice. Because I don't know if it ever existed

or if it, or if the bridge broke, but there does

not seem to be a pipeline of best practice into

that's going into the offices of the

practitioners, even the naturopaths. Right. Like,

it's, there's a disconnect there. And all of, all

of this. And maybe it's because the answer is so

simple, right? Like, go and watch. Sit on your

porch at sunrise with your husband. It's like, if

I feel like solving 15 years of insomnia should

be more complicated than that. Yeah, but it's not

in most cases.

Dr. Max Gulhane: And, and that point you made about the

simplicity, I do think that the degree to which

something is simple is that agree to which

someone can't make money off it. So, yeah,

getting your feet on the bare earth and watching

the morning sunrise is the cheapest intervention,

health intervention in maybe the history of the

world. And no one can make money off that. And we

see not only mainstream medicine, but as you

mentioned, functional neuropathy, that there's

expensive solutions to problems that have, you

know, that these are light problems. So perhaps

that's, that's, you know, if I was putting my

skeptical hat on, I would, I would definitely say

that it's a money issue. And no one can make

money from these simple circadian interventions.

So that's why they're less well promoted, I

guess. What. And I really like how you framed

the, the job of making this pipeline into. To the

practitioners. And yeah, I see that as critical.

And just like what you're doing, you don't

necessarily need to have an MD to kind of give

this advice. Health Coaches, anyone can give this

advice and if it's in the best interest of the

patient, then other MDs need to put aside their

egos and not feel like this is, you know,

privileged information and they're the only ones

able to give this information. If it's in the

best interest of the patient, then this needs to

be talked about by everyone. No matter what their

training background is. If they understand what,

what, how the biology works and they're giving

good advice, then that, that, that's key. The,

the other point I wanted to make is that coming

from metabolic lifestyle, a dietary kind of

paradigm originally and actively practicing as a

doctor who's reversing diabetes and lifestyle

diseases with low carb carnivore, I see it as a

personal interest of mine to integrate the

dietary and the light stuff from a metabolic

point of view. And that's why I'm so interested

in what Dr. Jack Cruz was talking about, about

COMC and protein called clip and all these

ability for blue light to promote fasting, raised

fasting glucose and fasting insulin irrespective

of food. Because I think that is a real

underserved or under talked about area, which is

the intersection of, of the light environment and

metabolism. And that, that is really, really

fascinating because so many people are insulin

resistant and metabolically unwell and have

visceral fat. So that is, yeah, that's a personal

interest of mine. And I hope to, I guess, keep

keep going on this intellectual journey and keep

talking to people from both areas and, and kind

of package this up in a way that again is most

able to give to a patient who's got diabetes,

fatty liver, visceral fat, and be like, okay,

here you go. This is how we start to heal you.

That's a wonderful idea. I love that so much and

what it brings up for me again as a coach who

works with people on the more emotional and

behavior change side, is that bringing in the

light piece and marrying the metabolic with the

circadian, I think also just gives people such a,

it's a real relief, right? Because there's so

much shame around our food habits, especially if

you have diet, you know, you have type 2 diabetes

or you're overweight, people feel so much shame

that they can't control it. And then to get the

knowledge that there are other habits in their

life that they see as completely disconnected

from this problem, like looking at their phone at

midnight on full factory settings, to know that

those things are actively working against them

and making everything worse. And it's not just a

willpower it's not just that they're totally

screwed and there's no way out. I do see that it

offers relief and hope to know that actually I've

been swimming against the current trying to

change how my body's responding to food without

changing my life.

Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah, definitely, yes.

So anything else Dr. Gilhane, that you'd like to

leave us with?

Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah, so, so I'm yeah, on, on the vein of, of I

guess marrying all this together. I'm hosting an

event in, in Albury and hopefully it'll be the

first of many. But I've got Dr. Jalal Khan who's

a circadian quantum dentist and I'll be talking.

We've got Dr. Anthony Chaffee who's on the

carnivore side. We've got some regenerative,

regenerative pharma who I work with. So we're

really kind of bringing in all aspects of, of

what I think is, is good, relevant for people's

health. And I really think that moving forward,

like collectively we don't need more drugs,

people don't need more drugs, they don't need

more supplements, they need more very high

quality, regeneratively raised ruminant meat.

They need more seafood, they need more circadian

regulation and they need less WI fi and less,

less, less drugs. So that is I guess an angle

that I'm really excited about in the future. And

I think that optimal health for everyone, for the

population, for reversing this chronic disease

epidemic, for reversing the metabolic disease

epidemic, for addressing all the fundamental

problems, rising cancer and dementia rates,

everything in my mind this is just my opinion

lies in this confluence of an optimal human

species, appropriate diet of unprocessed food

rich in animal products and a highly regulated

circadian rhythm, the absence of artificial light

at night and morning sunrise and everything like

that. And I think that regenerative farming is a

key point because that's one of the delivery

mechanisms of getting that high quality food into

people. So that's, I guess to end this

discussion. Again, it's like I'm emphasizing the

holistic aspect of this. And again it's not just

one thing, it's a whole confluence of things. And

if we can add up, you know, all these 5

percenters in terms of behavior change, then

that's the key to, to optimal health as I see it.

I love it. Okay. And we actually there are quite

a lot of quantum enthusiasts in Australia so I

want to just give some more details. When is your

event?

Dr. Max Gulhane: So it will be on August 6th in Albury here,

Aubrey. New South Wales.

Okay. And Albury is, you said sort of in between

Sydney and Melbourne, is that right? Did I get

that? Yeah.

Dr. Max Gulhane: Correct.

Okay.

Dr. Max Gulhane: So it's about, it's about a six hour drive from

Sydney and it's a three and a half hour drive

from Melbourne on the border of Queens of

Victoria and New South Wales.

Okay. And this event takes place over, over two

or three days or it's a.

Dr. Max Gulhane: It'S a single day event. There'll be about,

there's four, four speakers and. But we're

organizing a farm tour at the local Jake Wilkes

farm that will be happening day before and we'll

also be organizing an event dinner. So I'll, I

might send you the details. You can put them in

the show notes.

We will put the details to that in the show

notes. We have shared this event in our

newsletter. We'll do that again and I'll

especially make sure that all of, all of our, the

Australian QVC members are aware of it and. Yeah.

Are you going to record the speakers? Will people.

Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah, yeah, that's the plan. Yeah.

Great.

Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah.

So we'll share those details when they come out

as well for people if they want to access the

recordings because this sounds like a, sounds

like a beautiful event. I'm so happy you're doing

it. I do think, as much as I love leveraging

technology, I do think in person meetups are, are

absolutely the key. We've got a quantum entangle

at a close up range.

Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Okay.

Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah. And if, if anyone is wanting to follow my

podcast. Yeah. As you said earlier, it's the

Regenerative Health podcast on the podcasting

apps. And I'm also on Twitter maxcorhan md and

Instagram. Dr. Underscore. Max underscore Gulhein.

Perfect. And we will have links to all of that in

the show notes as well. So check out Dr.

Gulhane's podcast and follow him on his socials

and yeah, let's, let's keep this movement

growing. Thank you so much for your time today.

This has just been an absolute pleasure.

Dr. Max Gulhane: Thank you Meredith and thanks for everything you

do as well.

Thank you. This has been the Quantum Biology

Collective podcast to find a practitioner who

practices from this point of view. Visit our

directory@quantumbiologycollective.org if you are

a practitioner, definitely take a look at the

Applied Quantum Biology certification. A six week

study of the science of the new human health

paradigm and its practical application with your

patients and clients. We also love to feature

graduates of the program on this very podcast.

Until next time, the QVC.