I got an email from Rachel, who's asking about performance anxiety and how

that relates to the polyvagal theory.

Before I get into it.

Hi, I am Justin Sunseri.

I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist, a coach and the creator of

the Polyvagal Trauma Relief System.

Welcome to Stuck Not Broken, where I teach you how to live with more

calm, confidence, and connection without psychobabble or woo woo.

If you have no idea what the polyvagal theory is, that's okay.

I have a very deep dive for you.

It's a nine episode, basically like course on the Polyvagal Theory, all

the essentials in simple language.

That's in the description.

Just click that and you'll be able to start those nine episodes for free.

No email address, nothing.

Just have at it, learn, hope you enjoy it, but let's get to Rachel's email here.

She says a topic I really think would be of interest to me.

Oh, and by the way, so she responded to an email I had sent out saying,

Hey, what do you want to know about?

And this is what she wrote back with.

A topic I really think would be of interest to me, if you haven't already

covered it, is performance anxiety.

For example, the other day I played a piano jazz piece on

Zoom before 40 other students, including our jazz piano teacher.

My hands shook so much from stage fright that it made it quite difficult to play.

What's a good approach to use polyvagal theory for this?

A couple things here that I need to address.

The first one is, she's asking, what's a good approach to use

polyvagal theory for this?

Polyvagal theory, and I don't know if she meant this or not, but

polyvagal theory is not a modality.

It's not a prescription.

It doesn't say what you, it doesn't exactly say what you should do,

how you should handle things, what your behaviors should be.

I think it says what, you know, it helps us understand how to optimize ourselves on

a biological level, nervous system level.

It can help us to feel more safety, more connection.

I think there's principles that we can pull from maybe, but in no way is it

telling us how to do things or in no way is it saying like, here's a prescription

for, you know, how you should behave.

People like me.

So I've taken my understanding of the science of the Polyvagal

theory and then pulled from it.

I applied it to my own understandings of mental health and trauma recovery as a,

as a therapist and then created my system.

But the Polyvagal Theory is just science.

Like, it's just explaining, what's happening within us on a biological level

when we do things like hug each other.

But also when we do things like have stage fright while playing

piano and on a, on a Zoom call.

Polyvagal theory is, doesn't say what to do, it says, hey, here's what's happening.

I can explain this.

The science is saying, I can explain this.

So on that note, what I want to focus on next is what's happening

and I can't speak for Rachel.

I don't, I don't know what's happening within her, but I can, you know,

speak on a more general level.

It's actually happened.

My daughter, she's, she plays piano and this happened to her at her last recital.

And she got up there and same thing happened to her, her, it wasn't on zoom.

It was in front of 50 people or so.

She was up there and her hands started shaking and I was up there kind of

close to where I was filming on my camera and you could see her tense

up and her hands started shaking and she got through it, but you could

tell she was really struggling.

So what's happening on a nervous system level, on the polyvagal level, what's

happening is that likely the body, the person, the individual, the organism

is losing access to their safety state.

When we lose access to the safety state, then our defensive

states kind of become dominant.

We become dysregulated.

So without the safety state active.

flight, fight, shut down, freeze, those become more dominant.

They start to flavor the system.

They flavor our thoughts, our behaviors, or at least the potential

of what the range of our thoughts and behaviors and emotions, our ability

to connect with others, our ability to perform in front of others on piano.

Restricted When we're in flight fight, we want to run away or be aggressive

when we are in shutdown we collapse and have this pull toward immobility and

isolation and lower lower stimulation.

When we're in freeze we freeze we tense up.

So what I think happens and I can kind of relate to this on some level actually I

could relate to this on Pretty big level.

I don't like heights very much, especially when I'm in my car.

The car and heights, bridges not being able to see the ground and just seeing

like blue sky on a steep bridge or a drop off a, you know, when driving

on a cliff, you see that, that drop, that puts me into little freeze.

Yeah, cars, heights not a good combination for me.

So.

What I see, saw in my daughter, and I think in general, when we see these

kinds of things, what's likely happening is the individual's losing access

to their safety state, and they're probably entering kind of a freeze.

The shaking, the hand shaking is potentially the freeze itself, or the

body's attempt to come out of freeze and trying to like shake it off.

I'm not quite sure which it is for that.

Individual but it could kind of like be either of those.

But in general, what's probably happening with that muscle tension and

the shaking is likely a freeze state.

Shutdown would be passing out at the extreme shutdown would be dissociation.

Now part of freeze is shutdown- freeze is a combination of

flight fight plus shutdown.

What's happening is the body is mobilized to run away or fight,

but also immobilizing in shutdown.

And that's what equals freeze.

Freeze is a mixed state.

It's a combination of flight fight plus shutdown.

So freeze is immobile.

But, with Flight Fight in the system, it's like hitting the accelerator and

the brake at the same time in your car.

You know, the engine's revving, but it's not going anywhere.

The wheels are just kind of spinning.

So that might be that, you know, that handshaking, the tension, not being able

to focus, possible, possibly a little bit of, or a lot of dissociation happening.

That's likely a freeze reaction.

So, why does this happen?

It could be a number of things.

The first one, it could be just the moment itself is a big moment.

It's you know, you're performing in front of a bunch of people.

You might have a lot of pressure on you.

You might have familial expectations.

You might have cultural expectations.

You might have a teacher who's been driving you up until this moment.

Now it's all on you and the pressure might be too much.

So maybe it's just the moment.

The moment's too big.

That could be one aspect of it.

Another aspect could be that if you're, you're playing in front of other people

who are kind of staring blankly or lost interest, all those cues of like crowd

chatter not looking at you, not having smiles on their face, all of those cues

actually send danger cues, basically, to the person up there who's probably

already tense and feeling pressured.

And then they see these faces in the crowd that are, first off, strangers, but second

off, not friendly, not warm, not inviting.

All of those give, or maybe disinterested, flat out disinterested, probably not

angry and aggressive, but disinterested, or, you know, chit chattering with

their own kids and they want to leave.

All of those cues, those interpersonal cues, actually bring

a, they give, Some danger cues.

We, we receive those interpersonal cues, kind of like danger.

It's not really danger, but our body perceives it or detects it as dangerous

through something called neuroception.

Again, listen to my nine episode series to learn more about that.

Okay, so part of this could be the moment.

Part of it could be the danger cues that you're getting from the individual or from

the crowd, the lack of interpersonal cues.

Now, on top of that, if you're doing something like a performance

or maybe a presentation and you're doing it through Zoom or through

virtual means, you're alone.

You're just talking to a screen.

Yeah, there's faces there and it kind of helps as long as they're engaged,

but a lot of them might just be black screens with the name on it, maybe.

But it's, it's, you're alone.

And you're talking into the void, kind of like I'm doing right now.

Like, you're hearing it, but I'm just talking to myself.

It's, it's not exactly a mindful safety practice, you know what I mean?

Like, it's, it's weird.

So, if you're doing this, even though there are live people

watching, they're not there with you.

They're not, you can't maybe hear their, their their voice

giving you encouragement.

You can't, I don't know, reach out and, Hug someone that

might otherwise comfort you.

There's the pressure of the moments, there's the audience not giving their

interpersonal cues, but then there's also just being alone with a screen.

Even though there's people on the other end of it, in a way, there's

also like, you're alone with a screen.

So all these could, not, maybe not one of these could trigger the freeze, but all

these combined could trigger the freeze.

On top of this whatever you have around you could trigger as well.

So we've talked about the moment itself, the expectations, personal,

and, maybe on a bigger level, we've also talked about the interpersonal

cues or lack of cues, but there's also environmental stuff going on around you.

Again, like if you're on a zoom call, are you in a space that you actually feel

good in, are you, are you in a space, you actually feel some level of safety,

connection and groundedness When in, or are you performing in front of a bunch of

people in a church or a community center where it's not your space, you don't own

it, you don't feel comfortable there, you don't set the lighting, you don't set

the temperature, you don't have control over your, over the space like that.

So that in itself can be dysregulating as well.

Maybe there's something there that you didn't plan on, and it just,

you know, it causes some anxiety that contributes to the freeze.

I know for my daughter, she, the first time she did it, she was, she

has a piano, she practices on piano.

But they gave her this keyboard slash piano hybrid thing, and it threw her off.

That was the first time, and she got through it, she was fine.

But the second time, she knew that was going to happen, and she had

practiced on a keyboard, and that might have, like, added the pressure to it.

So, again, not having control of the environment, not being able to choose

your, I don't know, method of delivery, or all the pieces of the environment,

may, again, might not be enough to trigger you into dysregulation,

but it might contribute to it.

So what do you do about this?

The first thing is, I think it's in general, we'll talk in general, in

general to address freeze what's, or for any level of dysregulation, flight,

fight, shutdown, freeze- it's helpful to develop the strength of your safety state.

That means you prioritize feelings of connection, being grounded in

the present moment, mindfulness, experience of mindfulness, interpersonal

connections, connections with yourself, connections with your environment.

If you prioritize feeling safe, then that can help you to

strengthen your safety state.

That doesn't mean that everybody does what you want.

That's not what that means.

What that means is you look inward.

And you notice, what do I feel a pull towards?

What feels generally like feelings of positivity?

What feels like connection?

What feels like freedom or, or being grounded in the present moment?

You know what I mean?

That's, that's what we're aiming for.

When you feel connected to your pet, that's a lot different than

feeling protected by hiding in your room in the dark by yourself.

That's not safety.

Connection with your pet, that's more of what I'm talking about.

Connection with yourself, using your senses that's more what I'm talking about.

Connection with a loved one, if you have it.

Connection with a professional, like a therapist, that's

more what I'm talking about.

That, those are those safety experiences that we want to first off identify,

practice, mindfully experience it, and build the strength of your safety state.

And then, as you do that, then allow some level of dysregulation,

or not dysregulation, but some level of defensive activation.

So if you know you're stuck in a defensive state, a flight fight state, if you

know you're stuck in freeze or shutdown, anchor in safety, and then allow yourself

to feel a little bit, a tolerable amount of those defensive states.

As you do that, it actually helps to strengthen your safety state.

It softens the intensity of the defensive state and over time it can

significantly reduce to the point where it's not debilitating and you actually

may just flat out recover from it.

The other thing that can help more specifically for something like

this is to know what you're walking into- to know what the environment

is going to be like to know what tools you'll have at your disposal.

So knowing what kind of Keyboard or piano it is ahead of time that might help.

Knowing who's going to be there knowing how many people are going

to have their cameras on or off.

When I do my trauma presentations, a lot of times they've been through

virtual, through through Zoom.

I like to know, I prefer to see people's faces.

I ask people to leave their cameras on.

So what, what, what are you walking into?

What kind of piano is there?

How many seats are there?

What's the lighting like?

Can you, can you ask people to turn their cameras on or off?

Can you set up your environment?

Let's say you are doing a zoom thing.

Could you set up your literal home environment with cues of safety?

Like right now I'm recording this.

I am mostly surrounded by things that bring me calm cues of safety connection.

Like I have stuff back here like Lego and 49er stuff and Polyvagal theory books.

There's stuff that I like.

It just kind of helps me feel good.

You know, the light back here, it feels soft and warm.

I like that kind of lighting.

There is kind of a mess that you can't see, which I don't

like, but just generally.

When you do these things, what's your environment like?

What can you control?

What can you change?

And if you can't, can you introduce your system to that ahead of

time so that it's not a surprise when you get there the day of?

There might also be some top down stuff you can do to help yourself out.

Like if you know you're going to go into freeze, maybe you can tell

yourself ahead of time, Hey, I'm safe.

I've rehearsed this.

I can do this.

I'm competent.

People are here because I'm interesting or people are here because they are

excited about my talents or my knowledge, my speaking ability, whatever it is.

Can you tell yourself something top down that can help you to regulate?

A slow exhale on the way out.

That can be helpful.

I don't like prescribed breathing too much, but when it comes to

freeze, it seems like the slow exhale on the way out is helpful.

A lot of times of why my therapy clients, when they get in that kind

of a tense, anxious flight fight, or even like freeze energy, I'll

ask them, Hey, can you breathe?

And that prompts them and they'll, they'll be like, Oh yeah.

And then they'll, they'll look inward.

They'll take that breath in and out and having that bigger breath than not is

I think helpful, especially if you can exhale a little bit slower on the way out

that helps to activate the safety state.

And then also like, of course, just practice, practice, practice,

make sure you have whatever that thing is, have it down, have it

down as much as you possibly can.

When I first started doing my trauma presentations and my polyvagal

theory presentations, I made sure that I rehearsed it a number

of times to ensure that it fit within the allotted time window.

I allowed breaks for, well, breaks, but also breaks in my speaking for Q and A.

So rehearse the heck out of it and make sure you have it, especially

maybe with like sports or piano stuff.

Like that muscle memory can go a long way.

So just make sure you got that down.

If you can combine that with the other things that I've recommended,

the potential for going into a dysregulated freeze state are

probably lower, overall, I would say.

But I don't know you, so you'll have to figure out ultimately for yourself.

What helps you feel safe?

What helps you feel more grounded?

What helps you feel more confident?

Those are just my ideas.

I would love to hear what you think.

Put them in the comments if you don't mind.

That's it for this one.

Thank you, Rachel, for being on my email list and for this question, if you're

interested in working with me, not Rachel, not you, but just in general, if you're

interested in working with me as your coach, I do have availability right now.

I opened up a whole bunch of new slots because my Private practice is growing

and so I've created more time for it.

So if you're interested in coaching with me or therapy, let me know and we

can discuss what that might look like.

My email is JustinLMFT@gmail.com..

Again, JustinLMFT@gmail.com.

Bye.

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