1 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:05,768 >> Charlie: Welcome to the Cook Eat Run podcast with X Miles, hosted 2 00:00:05,784 --> 00:00:08,632 by me, Charlie Watson. I'm a runner, a mum, an 3 00:00:08,656 --> 00:00:11,496 NHS dietitian, and author of the recipe 4 00:00:11,528 --> 00:00:14,488 book for runners, Cook Eat Run. I'm also 5 00:00:14,544 --> 00:00:17,432 a 16 times marathoner and love nothing more than sharing what 6 00:00:17,456 --> 00:00:19,720 I've learned along the way through a lot of trial and 7 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:22,360 error. Cook Eat Run is the go to 8 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,096 podcast for running, nutrition training tips, marathon 9 00:00:25,128 --> 00:00:28,082 debriefs, and, more. I'm here to answer all your questions 10 00:00:28,130 --> 00:00:30,882 and fuel you with the knowledge you'll need to run faster, 11 00:00:31,010 --> 00:00:33,934 further, and actually just to have more fun on the run. 12 00:00:34,086 --> 00:00:36,894 So whether you're training for an ultra, want to improve your marathon 13 00:00:36,926 --> 00:00:39,550 pb, or simply just get more out of your 14 00:00:39,574 --> 00:00:41,498 running, you're in the right place. 15 00:00:48,118 --> 00:00:51,070 Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Cook Eat 16 00:00:51,134 --> 00:00:54,062 Run podcast with X Miles. Today I'm doing a bit 17 00:00:54,070 --> 00:00:56,750 of a deep dive into the world of collagen with guest 18 00:00:56,814 --> 00:00:59,804 Sian Seccombe As you'll hear, Sian is super passionate 19 00:00:59,836 --> 00:01:02,764 about all things running, research and nutrition, boiling 20 00:01:02,796 --> 00:01:05,628 down the literature so you can easily apply it to your training. 21 00:01:05,788 --> 00:01:08,620 We're talking about the science, benefits and misconceptions 22 00:01:08,684 --> 00:01:11,628 surrounding collagen supplementation for runners, especially 23 00:01:11,748 --> 00:01:14,540 women over 30. Whether you're recovering from an 24 00:01:14,564 --> 00:01:17,420 injury, training for a marathon, or just curious about how to 25 00:01:17,444 --> 00:01:20,332 optimise your diet, this episode has something for everyone. 26 00:01:20,500 --> 00:01:23,052 Sian's currently working towards a Masters in Sports 27 00:01:23,100 --> 00:01:25,980 Nutrition and shares fun nutritional and running info on 28 00:01:26,004 --> 00:01:28,906 TikTok and Instagram. Sian Sec. I'll 29 00:01:28,922 --> 00:01:31,914 leave the link in the show notes. She's an ultra runner with pretty 30 00:01:31,946 --> 00:01:34,618 speedy times on the roads and hosts her own podcast, the 31 00:01:34,658 --> 00:01:35,758 Fuelled Runner. 32 00:01:38,418 --> 00:01:41,208 So Sian, thank you so much for joining me this morning. 33 00:01:41,648 --> 00:01:44,520 I am so excited to talk about this because I put a story up 34 00:01:44,544 --> 00:01:47,080 on my Instagram about collagen 35 00:01:47,144 --> 00:01:49,848 and runners and in specific, like specifically 36 00:01:49,928 --> 00:01:52,798 women over, 30, because I'm a 37 00:01:52,838 --> 00:01:55,246 runner over 30 myself and I was 38 00:01:55,302 --> 00:01:58,302 inundated with questions and 39 00:01:58,470 --> 00:02:01,370 I think that that supplements especially 40 00:02:01,554 --> 00:02:04,202 are such a widely 41 00:02:04,250 --> 00:02:06,826 discussed but not really kind of fully 42 00:02:07,002 --> 00:02:09,754 understood topic. So I'm really excited to kind of deep 43 00:02:09,786 --> 00:02:12,700 dive into collagen today. so thank you 44 00:02:12,724 --> 00:02:15,516 so much for, for joining me and being willing to kind of go into this deep 45 00:02:15,532 --> 00:02:18,396 dive with me. Firstly, can we start 46 00:02:18,452 --> 00:02:21,292 talking first about kind of what collagen 47 00:02:21,340 --> 00:02:24,108 actually is? What, what do we mean when we talk about 48 00:02:24,148 --> 00:02:25,036 collagen? 49 00:02:25,212 --> 00:02:28,076 >> Sian Seccombe: Yeah, it's such an interesting topic, isn't it? Like, especially when you're 50 00:02:28,092 --> 00:02:31,070 saying like, supplements as A whole as a general, 51 00:02:31,254 --> 00:02:34,158 it's such like a mysterious but like 52 00:02:34,278 --> 00:02:36,766 specific and wide ranging, but like 53 00:02:36,902 --> 00:02:39,630 nuanced and particular that actually it can feel so 54 00:02:39,654 --> 00:02:42,526 overwhelming when someone's going, oh, you need to be taking xyz, oh, 55 00:02:42,542 --> 00:02:45,390 you've hit this age and three days, so you need to have an extra bit of this 56 00:02:45,414 --> 00:02:48,366 and that and that. So it's just like, yeah, spilling 57 00:02:48,382 --> 00:02:51,278 it all down to like the basics of what it actually is and 58 00:02:51,318 --> 00:02:54,222 where it's coming from. And I think especially collagen at the 59 00:02:54,230 --> 00:02:56,344 minute is. It's really having its like 60 00:02:56,416 --> 00:02:59,208 primary. It really is. Like 61 00:02:59,328 --> 00:03:02,216 walk on your incline treadmill and take a collagen shot and ah, you're 62 00:03:02,232 --> 00:03:04,856 dandy. Like, that doesn't quite work like that. 63 00:03:04,992 --> 00:03:07,908 And I think that's the thing with collagen especially, like, 64 00:03:08,288 --> 00:03:10,680 fundamentally, collagen is a 65 00:03:10,704 --> 00:03:13,512 protein. So it's the most abundant 66 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,148 protein in your body. But 67 00:03:16,928 --> 00:03:19,880 collagen is specifically made of 68 00:03:19,904 --> 00:03:22,840 a certain number of amino acids. So all proteins 69 00:03:22,904 --> 00:03:25,422 are made of amino acids, which just like the building blocks. 70 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,438 And when you're eating and taking in protein, 71 00:03:28,858 --> 00:03:31,634 you can have things called complete and incomplete proteins. 72 00:03:31,746 --> 00:03:34,354 So a complete protein would have that full 73 00:03:34,426 --> 00:03:37,266 spectrum of Lego blocks, so all the amino acids your body 74 00:03:37,322 --> 00:03:40,274 needs and it would go, right, okay, I need these colours 75 00:03:40,306 --> 00:03:43,298 amino acids to build my collagen, or I need these 76 00:03:43,338 --> 00:03:46,050 ones to do something else. And your body can make some of 77 00:03:46,074 --> 00:03:48,754 those. So there's nine amino acids that your body 78 00:03:48,826 --> 00:03:51,472 cannot make that it has to have 79 00:03:51,650 --> 00:03:54,388 from your, like, you have to eat it in some 80 00:03:54,428 --> 00:03:57,396 form. And collagen is made 81 00:03:57,452 --> 00:04:00,260 of three essential acids. 82 00:04:00,404 --> 00:04:03,156 So you have to take in those amino acids 83 00:04:03,252 --> 00:04:06,088 for your body to be able to produce collagen. 84 00:04:06,508 --> 00:04:09,220 So that's where the kind of thought process and 85 00:04:09,244 --> 00:04:12,004 rationale of like specifically targeting 86 00:04:12,116 --> 00:04:14,916 your collagen intake is coming from. 87 00:04:14,972 --> 00:04:17,972 Because, like all your other different types of protein you've got 88 00:04:17,980 --> 00:04:20,588 in your body, you can make those up. Like 89 00:04:20,668 --> 00:04:23,588 there's so many amino acids go floating around that you're like, yeah, 90 00:04:23,574 --> 00:04:26,302 cool, we can take these, our body can make them. But 91 00:04:26,358 --> 00:04:29,246 collagen, you're like, no, you have to actually have given your 92 00:04:29,270 --> 00:04:31,794 body those specific building blocks. 93 00:04:32,134 --> 00:04:34,994 So when we're saying taking collagen, 94 00:04:35,574 --> 00:04:38,558 it's. You're not like taking it in your mouth and then your 95 00:04:38,566 --> 00:04:41,550 body's just like sticking it on your hair or your skin. Like, it doesn't, 96 00:04:41,662 --> 00:04:44,526 doesn't have like that direct relationship. But the 97 00:04:44,550 --> 00:04:47,196 idea behind taking supplements 98 00:04:47,350 --> 00:04:50,000 is that you take it, it's digested, it's 99 00:04:50,032 --> 00:04:51,920 broken down into Those amino acid 100 00:04:51,952 --> 00:04:54,768 constituents, then your body has loads of 101 00:04:54,776 --> 00:04:57,776 these free amino acids floating around and it's looking for 102 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,688 these essential ones to build collagen. And they're there 103 00:05:00,776 --> 00:05:03,492 so it can go sweet. I, can grab these and easily, 104 00:05:03,540 --> 00:05:06,340 without resistance, build up the proteins that collagen is 105 00:05:06,364 --> 00:05:09,268 making. But collagen has so 106 00:05:09,308 --> 00:05:12,100 many different roles in your body. So 107 00:05:12,284 --> 00:05:15,076 the ones that we all know about, skin, nails, 108 00:05:15,252 --> 00:05:18,116 hair, actually not 109 00:05:18,172 --> 00:05:20,862 really, but you know, skating, 110 00:05:20,910 --> 00:05:23,342 airtime. So it's actually that it's the hair 111 00:05:23,390 --> 00:05:26,334 follicle, not your actual hair, that's related 112 00:05:26,406 --> 00:05:29,258 to collagen. but there's literally no 113 00:05:29,298 --> 00:05:31,518 science that taking collagen helps your hair. 114 00:05:32,118 --> 00:05:34,990 >> Charlie: I think that's where some of the confusion comes from because for so long 115 00:05:35,014 --> 00:05:37,758 we've been bombarded with take this supplement 116 00:05:37,838 --> 00:05:40,734 to get your hair and skin and ah, nails more 117 00:05:40,806 --> 00:05:43,598 like healthier. And actually that's what we see in 118 00:05:43,638 --> 00:05:46,590 mainstream media. And there 119 00:05:46,614 --> 00:05:49,550 isn't the evidence behind it, but hopefully, as we're going to discuss a little 120 00:05:49,574 --> 00:05:52,286 bit later, there is a little bit of evidence behind taking it 121 00:05:52,342 --> 00:05:54,398 for like endurance runners. 122 00:05:54,558 --> 00:05:57,198 >> Sian Seccombe: Yeah. And that's the thing, like, there is actually some 123 00:05:57,238 --> 00:05:59,998 amazing evidence and science behind collagen, 124 00:06:00,158 --> 00:06:03,038 but it doesn't, it's not quite so like black and white 125 00:06:03,078 --> 00:06:06,062 of like how it actually shows up to like, ah, a 126 00:06:06,070 --> 00:06:08,894 woman in her 30s should take collagen because of blah, blah, blah. 127 00:06:09,006 --> 00:06:11,848 It's more nuanced and it's more actually like your 128 00:06:11,888 --> 00:06:14,632 body's overall processes, especially as a 129 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,288 runner or someone who's had surgery or an 130 00:06:17,328 --> 00:06:19,828 injury or like something like that. 131 00:06:20,208 --> 00:06:23,160 Because collagen is related to all of your 132 00:06:23,184 --> 00:06:26,040 connective tissues especially. And that's also where there's evidence 133 00:06:26,104 --> 00:06:28,856 to show that supplementing with collagen does 134 00:06:28,912 --> 00:06:31,720 actually have a beneficial effect. So it's. 135 00:06:31,784 --> 00:06:34,216 If you're overall healthy and you're eating a good 136 00:06:34,272 --> 00:06:37,208 diet, you. You're probably getting everything you need. 137 00:06:37,248 --> 00:06:40,146 You probably don't need it. Whereas then, like, if you 138 00:06:40,202 --> 00:06:42,866 had an injury or you have got 139 00:06:42,922 --> 00:06:45,714 ligament issues or you've had surgery, actually 140 00:06:45,786 --> 00:06:48,338 that's when we go, okay, there is evidence and there is 141 00:06:48,378 --> 00:06:51,122 protocols to follow where collagen supplementation can 142 00:06:51,210 --> 00:06:54,050 actually, really, really is going to help. And we know 143 00:06:54,074 --> 00:06:57,026 it's going to help. Rather than kind of you're 144 00:06:57,042 --> 00:06:59,970 taking in all these extra amino acids that then your body's going 145 00:06:59,994 --> 00:07:02,930 to go, well, actually I've got plenty of these because you're already trying 146 00:07:02,954 --> 00:07:05,800 to hit all this protein in your diet you actually 147 00:07:05,824 --> 00:07:08,344 eat. You're actually getting it elsewhere, like A protein 148 00:07:08,376 --> 00:07:11,064 yoghurt that's got collagen in it, like 149 00:07:11,216 --> 00:07:14,200 an egg. All these other, like, there's so many 150 00:07:14,224 --> 00:07:16,872 different ways where you get collagen in your diet that you wouldn't 151 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,912 necessarily think, oh, yes, I'm having my lovely dose of collagen. 152 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,032 It's like, it does it. It's not this magical thing that 153 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,854 you can't get from elsewhere. And that's so the thing 154 00:07:25,878 --> 00:07:28,830 of like, you really can get it in your food. So, 155 00:07:28,886 --> 00:07:31,310 like, especially meat options. 156 00:07:31,406 --> 00:07:34,234 So there's the kind of difference between 157 00:07:34,418 --> 00:07:37,306 collagen boosting foods and collagen 158 00:07:37,354 --> 00:07:40,058 rich foods. So a collagen rich food 159 00:07:40,130 --> 00:07:43,130 would come from an animal source and would be something 160 00:07:43,186 --> 00:07:46,026 where you're actually ingesting collagen that your 161 00:07:46,034 --> 00:07:48,922 body then breaks down and sends off. So that would be 162 00:07:48,962 --> 00:07:51,772 like milk, bone broth, 163 00:07:51,852 --> 00:07:54,632 chicken, beef, shellfish and 164 00:07:54,932 --> 00:07:57,852 fish, has a lot of collagen in it because of 165 00:07:57,892 --> 00:08:00,588 like in food chain, that's one of like the most direct 166 00:08:00,660 --> 00:08:03,564 sources of where those like amino acids are coming into the food chain. Is that 167 00:08:03,588 --> 00:08:06,124 like a fish level? But then you also have like 168 00:08:06,148 --> 00:08:08,940 collagen boosters. So things 169 00:08:08,996 --> 00:08:10,952 like eggs or like, 170 00:08:11,872 --> 00:08:14,504 nuts, soya, more like plant 171 00:08:14,568 --> 00:08:17,000 based, would be like collagen boosters. 172 00:08:17,176 --> 00:08:20,008 Because when we think about collagen, it doesn't 173 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:22,824 act on its own. And this is where the 174 00:08:22,848 --> 00:08:25,832 whole like vitamin C, hyaluronic acid comes 175 00:08:25,872 --> 00:08:28,732 into it, which I feel like is another thing that gets like 176 00:08:28,832 --> 00:08:31,780 muddled up in this. Like, here, take a supplement. You're m. Like, oh 177 00:08:31,796 --> 00:08:34,548 my God, it's got like 12 million things in it. What is it doing? 178 00:08:34,700 --> 00:08:37,124 But when you're looking at collagen supplements, 179 00:08:37,268 --> 00:08:39,940 actually vitamin C and hyaluronic acid 180 00:08:40,116 --> 00:08:42,948 are the two things that we go. No, actually, like, if you're 181 00:08:42,980 --> 00:08:45,588 trying to help yourself, like in terms of collagen 182 00:08:45,620 --> 00:08:48,532 production, connective tissues, tendon 183 00:08:48,612 --> 00:08:51,604 ligament health, bone health as well, which is a big one 184 00:08:51,628 --> 00:08:54,532 for collagen. Vitamin C and 185 00:08:54,572 --> 00:08:57,094 hyaluronic acid, we know, are, going to help 186 00:08:57,150 --> 00:08:59,958 you, especially if you're ageing. 187 00:09:00,102 --> 00:09:02,966 So that's kind of then where this, that's actually the 188 00:09:03,006 --> 00:09:05,958 science behind where this whole, like, oh, ah, you're ageing, so you need 189 00:09:05,982 --> 00:09:08,866 to take collagen comes from. Because 190 00:09:09,166 --> 00:09:11,958 as you age, there's basically some 191 00:09:11,982 --> 00:09:14,806 enzymes in your body that like to 192 00:09:14,846 --> 00:09:17,814 break down collagen. So as you get older, that's 193 00:09:17,830 --> 00:09:20,106 kind of why your skin goes. Yeah, 194 00:09:20,526 --> 00:09:21,798 all the fun things. 195 00:09:21,902 --> 00:09:22,278 >> Charlie: Yeah. 196 00:09:22,342 --> 00:09:25,336 >> Sian Seccombe: Because these enzymes are getting a bit snappy. Happy. Mm m. 197 00:09:25,620 --> 00:09:28,436 But vitamin C is actually something that can step 198 00:09:28,476 --> 00:09:31,396 in and turn those enzymes off. So it's essentially an 199 00:09:31,436 --> 00:09:34,388 inhibitor of those enzymes. So then if 200 00:09:34,412 --> 00:09:37,136 you're taking your collagen with your vitamin C, 201 00:09:37,596 --> 00:09:38,420 that's where you're. 202 00:09:38,468 --> 00:09:39,892 >> Charlie: Getting a bit of a double whammy. 203 00:09:40,004 --> 00:09:42,772 >> Sian Seccombe: Yeah, you're getting the double benefit of, okay, we're gonna, 204 00:09:42,804 --> 00:09:45,396 we're gonna dial down this collagen breakdown 205 00:09:45,556 --> 00:09:48,468 and we're gonna allow the collagen synthesis to 206 00:09:48,492 --> 00:09:51,316 happen. And then, yeah, there's also like some evidence 207 00:09:51,396 --> 00:09:54,314 around hyaluronic acid saying that actually it 208 00:09:54,370 --> 00:09:57,252 helps with the collagen production. so yeah, 209 00:09:57,284 --> 00:10:00,114 it's like a, it's another form of in your cell it's 210 00:10:00,130 --> 00:10:02,962 basically getting involved in all the processes. It's all in like the cell 211 00:10:02,994 --> 00:10:05,906 membranes and tissues. And it gets very sciencey and very 212 00:10:05,946 --> 00:10:08,754 niche. But yeah, essentially that's 213 00:10:08,770 --> 00:10:11,682 where when you see like the skin, things with like, oh, I've got vitamin 214 00:10:11,714 --> 00:10:14,418 C and hyaluronic acid in me, plus me on your face. Like 215 00:10:14,522 --> 00:10:16,482 that's where the idea is from. Right? 216 00:10:16,554 --> 00:10:17,346 >> Charlie: Yeah, got it. 217 00:10:17,386 --> 00:10:20,354 >> Sian Seccombe: Putting it on your skin, the evidence isn't 218 00:10:20,370 --> 00:10:22,766 there that it's going to do anything but like 219 00:10:22,886 --> 00:10:25,790 ingesting. If we're looking at kind of 220 00:10:25,878 --> 00:10:28,766 the recovery, all those kind of things, that's where you're then getting 221 00:10:28,806 --> 00:10:30,062 the extra benefit. 222 00:10:30,254 --> 00:10:33,118 >> Charlie: Okay, so, so we've kind 223 00:10:33,142 --> 00:10:35,998 of touched on the fact that there's not the evidence for it to 224 00:10:36,022 --> 00:10:38,462 be helpful for kind of skin and 225 00:10:38,534 --> 00:10:41,486 hair. But for 226 00:10:41,526 --> 00:10:44,414 endurance runners, if we don't have an injury, if we are 227 00:10:44,470 --> 00:10:46,718 eating a meat based or, you know, kind of a 228 00:10:46,742 --> 00:10:49,646 flexitarian diet, is there evidence that 229 00:10:49,686 --> 00:10:51,636 we over 30? 230 00:10:52,176 --> 00:10:55,176 I'm, I'm not asking for anyone in particular, I mean 231 00:10:55,216 --> 00:10:58,148 myself, but should we be supplementing? Could we 232 00:10:58,172 --> 00:11:00,936 be supplementing? Is there any harm in supplementing? 233 00:11:01,516 --> 00:11:03,988 >> Sian Seccombe: I'd say there's definitely no 234 00:11:04,092 --> 00:11:07,028 harm in additional because essentially all you're doing is 235 00:11:07,052 --> 00:11:10,004 having some extra protein. But if you're having collagen, 236 00:11:10,100 --> 00:11:12,788 you're just having those tiny little bits of the 237 00:11:12,812 --> 00:11:15,748 protein picture. So you'll not have, if you had 238 00:11:15,772 --> 00:11:18,630 whey protein that's essentially got all the 239 00:11:18,638 --> 00:11:21,382 building blocks of collagen in it. So 240 00:11:21,454 --> 00:11:24,342 you're just like doubling up on those specific amino 241 00:11:24,374 --> 00:11:27,270 acids. All that's going to 242 00:11:27,278 --> 00:11:29,974 happen is if you've got too much is your body 243 00:11:30,030 --> 00:11:32,950 then puts that your body can't store those amino acids 244 00:11:32,998 --> 00:11:35,798 for later. So what it'll do is it'll either 245 00:11:35,862 --> 00:11:38,358 turn them into energy and then store them as fat 246 00:11:38,502 --> 00:11:41,206 or they'll be metabolised differently, they'll turn into something 247 00:11:41,246 --> 00:11:44,138 else, like your body will do. There's so many 248 00:11:44,162 --> 00:11:46,566 different pathways. Your body can send those down, 249 00:11:47,026 --> 00:11:49,754 but it's not going to have, like, a negative effect. 250 00:11:49,810 --> 00:11:52,794 There's no science that says supplementing with collagen is going to cause 251 00:11:52,810 --> 00:11:55,450 a negative effect, but what you've got to do 252 00:11:55,538 --> 00:11:58,154 is looking at your diet as like a 253 00:11:58,210 --> 00:12:00,938 whole picture. So actually, 254 00:12:01,042 --> 00:12:03,882 for somewhat one person, supplementing with collagen 255 00:12:03,914 --> 00:12:06,840 might be way more useful than another, because the rest 256 00:12:06,896 --> 00:12:09,502 of their diet doesn't have enough 257 00:12:09,542 --> 00:12:12,478 protein, has no shellfish, has no chicken. They don't 258 00:12:12,510 --> 00:12:15,102 have. They don't include leafy greens, they don't have 259 00:12:15,142 --> 00:12:17,998 nuts. It's dependent on that, like, 260 00:12:18,070 --> 00:12:20,734 bigger picture. So saying like, 261 00:12:20,758 --> 00:12:23,566 okay, like, should you be having it every day? Should you 262 00:12:23,574 --> 00:12:26,494 be. How much dose should you have? It's like, well, what else are you 263 00:12:26,518 --> 00:12:29,482 eating? Is kind of the bigger question of 264 00:12:29,942 --> 00:12:32,878 there is no, like, magical solution. 265 00:12:32,990 --> 00:12:35,966 And also, when you're ingesting it, if there's something else your body wants to 266 00:12:35,974 --> 00:12:38,754 do, those amino acids, it's going to do that first. It's going to 267 00:12:38,778 --> 00:12:41,740 prioritise something else. Like, it's not going to go, you know what? I really need nice 268 00:12:41,772 --> 00:12:44,316 nails. It's just not going to do that. Like, it 269 00:12:44,340 --> 00:12:46,956 will. Especially as an endurance runner, 270 00:12:47,100 --> 00:12:49,852 you are training at a level where you have got 271 00:12:49,908 --> 00:12:52,684 constant turnover of tissue, so your 272 00:12:52,724 --> 00:12:55,644 muscle protein breakdown and synthesis is 273 00:12:55,684 --> 00:12:58,620 kind of constant. So you do a session, that muscle 274 00:12:58,652 --> 00:13:01,228 protein breakdown is happening, but then 275 00:13:01,316 --> 00:13:04,008 after that window of session, your muscle protein 276 00:13:04,056 --> 00:13:07,032 synthesis is going back up, and that's when you're looking 277 00:13:07,088 --> 00:13:10,056 to go, okay, so after I've trained, I want to 278 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:12,856 eat that bolus of protein because that's where I want those 279 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,848 amino acids in my body to make the most of the 280 00:13:15,856 --> 00:13:18,808 fact that my muscle protein synthesis rate right now 281 00:13:18,896 --> 00:13:21,512 has increased because I've put my body under 282 00:13:21,568 --> 00:13:24,456 stress, I've broken the tissues down by training a bit. 283 00:13:24,560 --> 00:13:27,176 And then that's how we then benefit from it. 284 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,184 And that's where the idea of, like, dosing with 285 00:13:30,224 --> 00:13:33,044 collagen around training comes from. 286 00:13:33,344 --> 00:13:35,982 So, so especially when it's like with 287 00:13:36,038 --> 00:13:38,910 injury, like tendon ligament 288 00:13:38,942 --> 00:13:41,806 injury, there's a lot of evidence now 289 00:13:41,830 --> 00:13:44,750 that if you supplement with collagen 30 290 00:13:44,822 --> 00:13:46,910 to 60 minutes before you then 291 00:13:46,982 --> 00:13:49,886 exercise, after the 292 00:13:49,910 --> 00:13:52,798 exercise, you will have an increased rate of collagen 293 00:13:52,846 --> 00:13:55,774 synthesis and muscle protein synthesis. If 294 00:13:55,814 --> 00:13:58,766 you've had that supplement of collagen before, than if you didn't have that 295 00:13:58,790 --> 00:14:01,654 supplement of collagen. So it's basically if 296 00:14:01,694 --> 00:14:04,454 you're then getting like an extra super boost 297 00:14:04,614 --> 00:14:07,366 on the effect of your physio exercises if 298 00:14:07,390 --> 00:14:09,888 you've, like, hurt, your Achilles tendon or 299 00:14:09,912 --> 00:14:12,656 whatever. But as a 300 00:14:12,696 --> 00:14:15,680 general runner, that additional, 301 00:14:15,728 --> 00:14:18,368 like, there's actually not the huge difference 302 00:14:18,432 --> 00:14:21,360 between just having protein after. Like, 303 00:14:21,448 --> 00:14:24,320 it's all very nuanced and kind of like 1%. 304 00:14:24,408 --> 00:14:27,326 Yeah. In terms of, like, how 305 00:14:27,366 --> 00:14:30,158 much is this going to help? Like, there's loads of 306 00:14:30,182 --> 00:14:33,166 protocols they've tried, they've tried. Like, so some people with, 307 00:14:33,206 --> 00:14:35,774 they're looking at Achilles tendons, so people 308 00:14:35,830 --> 00:14:38,654 doing three sets of calf raises throughout the day, 309 00:14:38,790 --> 00:14:41,598 having collagen before and then seeing the 310 00:14:41,622 --> 00:14:44,510 effect versus just doing it once a day and they're like, oh, there's a 311 00:14:44,518 --> 00:14:47,502 little increase. But we've looked at a sample size 312 00:14:47,534 --> 00:14:49,966 of 15 athletes. So, 313 00:14:50,006 --> 00:14:52,776 like, a lot of the science 314 00:14:52,936 --> 00:14:55,640 shows that it's a good idea and directionally 315 00:14:55,688 --> 00:14:58,440 wise is saying, okay, we should actually think about applying 316 00:14:58,488 --> 00:15:01,368 this. But when we get it down to 317 00:15:01,552 --> 00:15:04,168 the black and white of yes or no, 318 00:15:04,352 --> 00:15:07,144 it's very difficult. And it's actually 319 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:10,056 quite in line with the things people are saying a lot about protein 320 00:15:10,136 --> 00:15:12,872 now. So there's the argument of protein 321 00:15:12,904 --> 00:15:15,576 of spreading out throughout the day versus a 322 00:15:15,616 --> 00:15:17,996 huge amount after a workout. 323 00:15:18,436 --> 00:15:21,420 And actually the results and the science is so mixed. Like, you 324 00:15:21,428 --> 00:15:24,348 have one camp saying this, one camp saying that, and 325 00:15:24,372 --> 00:15:27,036 it's actually going, okay, we're not elite. We don't need the 326 00:15:27,076 --> 00:15:30,028 1% here. We're looking for just like, actually, can we make 327 00:15:30,052 --> 00:15:33,036 our bodies as happy as they can be? Can we give 328 00:15:33,076 --> 00:15:36,076 them what they need? Yeah. Cool. The best 329 00:15:36,116 --> 00:15:38,876 way to do that is actually just make sure we're having enough of 330 00:15:38,916 --> 00:15:41,868 everything throughout the day and supporting our 331 00:15:41,892 --> 00:15:44,588 body in that way, because it's not going to go, oh, your 332 00:15:44,612 --> 00:15:47,468 collagen was 20 minutes late. So I'm not going to make you any new tendons. 333 00:15:47,532 --> 00:15:50,418 Like, it's going to, it's going to look for it and it's going to have it there and 334 00:15:50,442 --> 00:15:53,282 it's going to make, it's going to make do. Like, our bodies are super smart. 335 00:15:53,314 --> 00:15:56,306 We kind of have to trust them a bit. But there 336 00:15:56,346 --> 00:15:57,154 is the evidence. 337 00:15:57,250 --> 00:15:59,714 >> Charlie: Like, so, okay, 338 00:15:59,890 --> 00:16:02,468 as someone, who has trained for multiple 339 00:16:02,500 --> 00:16:05,152 marathons, I often feel 340 00:16:05,612 --> 00:16:08,596 quite sore. I don't know if you've seen the memes. That's like, what's the regular 341 00:16:08,644 --> 00:16:11,476 amount of pain? And it's like zero. And I'm like, you know, 342 00:16:11,484 --> 00:16:14,484 I'm like, I did a strength session the other day and I have been 343 00:16:14,588 --> 00:16:17,170 sore for days so this, like, 344 00:16:17,226 --> 00:16:20,134 idea that if, you're kind of recovering from an 345 00:16:20,158 --> 00:16:22,950 injury or having, you know, doing the physio, I feel 346 00:16:23,006 --> 00:16:25,802 like, in a state of maybe slightly uncomfortable, 347 00:16:26,782 --> 00:16:29,654 like, more often than not when I'm marathon training, like, 348 00:16:29,678 --> 00:16:32,470 you've got the, like, long run recovery, the strength recovery. I'm like, 349 00:16:32,526 --> 00:16:35,446 is this okay to say, you know, the speed workouts 350 00:16:35,494 --> 00:16:37,958 and then you've got life, you've got work. You're not. 351 00:16:38,030 --> 00:16:38,214 >> Sian Seccombe: Not. 352 00:16:38,238 --> 00:16:41,206 >> Charlie: Everything is kind of perfect. I'm trying to crawl around on the 353 00:16:41,214 --> 00:16:43,862 floor after a toddler. Is there, 354 00:16:45,206 --> 00:16:48,110 for something like that, I would think, oh, well, I want 355 00:16:48,118 --> 00:16:50,718 to boost my tissue repair. I want to protect my 356 00:16:50,742 --> 00:16:53,438 joints. I make a noise every time I 357 00:16:53,542 --> 00:16:56,382 bend down. Will collagen. 358 00:16:56,494 --> 00:16:59,326 Stop that. Is there 359 00:16:59,366 --> 00:17:01,886 a right. This is your injury, or if 360 00:17:01,926 --> 00:17:04,670 we're having the micro 361 00:17:04,718 --> 00:17:07,262 tears, because we're strength training and 362 00:17:07,334 --> 00:17:10,234 we're running long and we are doing, a 363 00:17:10,242 --> 00:17:13,210 lot of time on our feet. Is. Is there 364 00:17:13,250 --> 00:17:16,010 a kind of this is when it would be beneficial, or is it 365 00:17:16,050 --> 00:17:18,710 literally a case of person by person? 366 00:17:19,650 --> 00:17:22,522 Look at your diet, look at 367 00:17:22,546 --> 00:17:25,274 what your kind of history of injuries are and what you're going through at the 368 00:17:25,282 --> 00:17:27,914 moment kind of thing? Don't know if that question made sense. 369 00:17:27,962 --> 00:17:30,826 >> Sian Seccombe: But I totally get you, because it is. And it's like, it's 370 00:17:30,858 --> 00:17:33,546 that whole thing, right, of, like, taking these really niche 371 00:17:33,578 --> 00:17:36,498 science journals that are done on 12 cyclists in a, pod 372 00:17:36,546 --> 00:17:39,250 in Switzerland, applying that to, like, general 373 00:17:39,322 --> 00:17:42,146 life. We're like, how are we doing this? But actually, in 374 00:17:42,170 --> 00:17:45,042 terms of kind of as an endurance runner, like, I'm the same. Like, 375 00:17:45,098 --> 00:17:47,922 something always hurts. And everyone's like, is this. Is this meant to happen? 376 00:17:47,978 --> 00:17:50,978 I'm like, no, it's fine. It's so fine. And we also got ourselves 377 00:17:51,026 --> 00:17:51,394 that, right? 378 00:17:51,434 --> 00:17:54,402 >> Charlie: Yeah. I got asked at work yesterday if I had a limp, 379 00:17:54,498 --> 00:17:57,458 and I was like, no. I just went to the gym for the 380 00:17:57,466 --> 00:18:00,306 first time in ages on Monday, and I 381 00:18:00,330 --> 00:18:02,784 can't walk. But thank you for asking. 382 00:18:02,954 --> 00:18:05,732 >> Sian Seccombe: It's like, oh, I did it the other day. I did, like, weird split squat 383 00:18:05,748 --> 00:18:08,596 lunges I hadn't done before, and I literally couldn't sit on the toilet. I was 384 00:18:08,620 --> 00:18:11,172 like, I haven't used a towel rail to get down. I'm like, oh, 385 00:18:11,188 --> 00:18:14,164 God, it is. And it's like, actually, there is 386 00:18:14,204 --> 00:18:17,124 never gonna be, like, a magical 387 00:18:17,204 --> 00:18:19,972 answer that's gonna solve all that and make us, like, 388 00:18:20,028 --> 00:18:21,476 superhumans that don't creak. 389 00:18:21,540 --> 00:18:24,228 >> Charlie: Because I was hoping you were going to say, 390 00:18:24,396 --> 00:18:27,060 take this. You're gonna live to be 100 391 00:18:27,132 --> 00:18:29,476 and run a marathon. Age 95. 392 00:18:29,580 --> 00:18:32,446 >> Sian Seccombe: I know absolute goals, right? But like I, 393 00:18:32,580 --> 00:18:35,498 I'm someone who's really injury prone and like my ligaments 394 00:18:35,546 --> 00:18:37,926 are all over the place. Like I'm hypermobile, I have 395 00:18:38,046 --> 00:18:40,918 ligaments stretching all over the place. So I constantly m take 396 00:18:40,942 --> 00:18:43,878 collagen because you know what? If in doubt there's some 397 00:18:43,902 --> 00:18:46,758 evidence out there that says it's going to help me, I'm going to take it because 398 00:18:46,862 --> 00:18:49,106 there's no downside to me taking it. 399 00:18:49,406 --> 00:18:52,326 And endurance runners need more 400 00:18:52,366 --> 00:18:55,190 protein than average people. Because 401 00:18:55,278 --> 00:18:58,102 we do have that constant cycle and because you have a really 402 00:18:58,174 --> 00:19:01,018 high energy output, what you need to do 403 00:19:01,042 --> 00:19:03,802 is ensure there's enough protein to protect your muscle 404 00:19:03,834 --> 00:19:06,006 mass. Because there's a balance between 405 00:19:06,626 --> 00:19:09,162 where there's kind of questions over energy 406 00:19:09,234 --> 00:19:11,898 availability and it's pretty 407 00:19:11,962 --> 00:19:14,666 hard to like consistently hit the 408 00:19:14,706 --> 00:19:17,658 energy output you're taking to like match it with what 409 00:19:17,682 --> 00:19:20,538 your input intake of food is. Especially like 410 00:19:20,642 --> 00:19:23,434 marathon runners, it's quite difficult. So what you want to do 411 00:19:23,490 --> 00:19:26,490 is your absolute best to try and maintain the strength 412 00:19:26,538 --> 00:19:29,448 you've got. Because we all know like through your training blocks, like 413 00:19:29,472 --> 00:19:32,360 you have like a few weeks where you're like, oh, I feel super strong. And then the 414 00:19:32,368 --> 00:19:35,208 next you like can't lift up half the weight you were doing because you're like, your 415 00:19:35,232 --> 00:19:37,576 long runs tripled. Yeah. What's going on? 416 00:19:37,616 --> 00:19:39,272 >> Charlie: So kind of cumulative fatigue. 417 00:19:39,384 --> 00:19:41,956 >> Sian Seccombe: Yeah. And it's like, okay, so at that point, 418 00:19:42,256 --> 00:19:45,144 protein intake in your diet as a 419 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,712 whole, looking at that going, right, is my 420 00:19:47,752 --> 00:19:50,496 protein source complete in terms of am I 421 00:19:50,504 --> 00:19:53,434 getting everything I need? So if you're 422 00:19:53,498 --> 00:19:56,298 eating meat and you're eating fish and 423 00:19:56,370 --> 00:19:59,306 dairy, you'll find your diet's complete. If you're vegan 424 00:19:59,354 --> 00:20:01,818 or vegetarian, you need to have a mate. You need to have a think about 425 00:20:01,890 --> 00:20:04,426 like looking into like complete protein 426 00:20:04,474 --> 00:20:07,434 sources, but then like the addition of 427 00:20:07,458 --> 00:20:10,250 the collagen, it's not going to hurt, 428 00:20:10,346 --> 00:20:13,194 like it's not going to harm. And all it's doing is 429 00:20:13,218 --> 00:20:16,170 basically just like adding extra protein in those 430 00:20:16,226 --> 00:20:19,194 specific flavours of amino acids that like build up 431 00:20:19,218 --> 00:20:21,142 collagen. So that's going to support 432 00:20:21,632 --> 00:20:24,408 extra, all those bits of your body, your connective 433 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:27,208 tissues, your joints, your bones that are so important 434 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,168 for insurance runners especially. Like, we don't 435 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:32,440 realise the impact endurance running has on your 436 00:20:32,496 --> 00:20:35,240 bones. Like the amount, especially 437 00:20:35,296 --> 00:20:38,168 now, like the amount of stress fractures and like bone stress 438 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,144 injuries that I'm seeing online and I've spoken to some 439 00:20:41,168 --> 00:20:43,736 physios and stuff about it, like it's absolutely 440 00:20:43,784 --> 00:20:46,712 exploding because especially in women, 441 00:20:46,832 --> 00:20:49,738 because people don't realise, like, the impact 442 00:20:49,810 --> 00:20:51,662 of, like, energy availability, 443 00:20:52,162 --> 00:20:54,810 marathon training, bone 444 00:20:54,906 --> 00:20:57,898 repair cycles, which need collagen 445 00:20:57,930 --> 00:21:00,714 and need like protein support and need energy 446 00:21:00,818 --> 00:21:03,722 like any carbs and that kind of 447 00:21:03,762 --> 00:21:06,362 interplay of like, how are you going to support your muscles best to 448 00:21:06,402 --> 00:21:08,714 recover so that then you can do your next training 449 00:21:08,778 --> 00:21:11,674 session is going to have. Is having collagen going 450 00:21:11,698 --> 00:21:14,618 to help? It's definitely not going to hurt. Like, it's 451 00:21:14,650 --> 00:21:17,404 a. It's difficult, especially if you're new to 452 00:21:17,428 --> 00:21:20,268 marathon training, to get it right the first time and that's 453 00:21:20,300 --> 00:21:23,196 why so many people get injured. So if you're going right, I'm 454 00:21:23,244 --> 00:21:26,092 really making a conscious effort to 455 00:21:26,132 --> 00:21:28,284 get enough protein without 456 00:21:28,388 --> 00:21:31,164 sacrificing carbs. And 457 00:21:31,188 --> 00:21:33,564 actually, if having a collagen shot or 458 00:21:33,748 --> 00:21:36,540 powder or something like that in your smoothie or in your 459 00:21:36,596 --> 00:21:39,596 electrolyte drink or however you want to take it, it's going 460 00:21:39,604 --> 00:21:42,310 to help you up your protein intake up 461 00:21:42,366 --> 00:21:45,270 everything sweet, excellent. Like, it's. It's 462 00:21:45,286 --> 00:21:48,214 only. It's not going to negatively do anything bad. And the fact 463 00:21:48,238 --> 00:21:50,982 you're conscious and thinking about it is actually going to help even 464 00:21:51,022 --> 00:21:51,602 more. 465 00:21:52,382 --> 00:21:55,174 >> Charlie: If you want to try adding collagen to your routine. You can 466 00:21:55,198 --> 00:21:57,718 save 10% off collagen repair from Pillar 467 00:21:57,750 --> 00:21:59,174 Performance and SIS 468 00:21:59,238 --> 00:22:01,840 collagen@xmiles.com with code 469 00:22:01,987 --> 00:22:04,950 COOKEATRUN. That's code COOKEATRUN for 10% 470 00:22:05,006 --> 00:22:06,806 off the collagen at, X mill. 471 00:22:08,096 --> 00:22:11,016 So if people do want to take a collagen supplement, what 472 00:22:11,056 --> 00:22:13,928 should they be looking for? What dosage is it in the. 473 00:22:13,952 --> 00:22:16,808 Kind of recommended to help promote kind of 474 00:22:16,832 --> 00:22:19,800 the recovery and especially injury kind of 475 00:22:19,808 --> 00:22:21,016 healing, that kind of thing. 476 00:22:21,136 --> 00:22:23,816 >> Sian Seccombe: Yeah. So if you're looking for just like a 477 00:22:23,856 --> 00:22:26,824 general collagen supplement, there are two 478 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,816 types. So they're kind of like the marine collagen and 479 00:22:29,856 --> 00:22:32,770 then there's like the bovine collagen. So if you're vegan or 480 00:22:32,778 --> 00:22:35,314 veggie, you'd go for the marine one and then 481 00:22:35,450 --> 00:22:38,046 ideally you'd go for the bovine one. Because 482 00:22:38,426 --> 00:22:40,962 if you think about it in terms of like a food 483 00:22:41,034 --> 00:22:43,890 chain, the marine collagen is like, from plants and 484 00:22:43,898 --> 00:22:46,690 cows. That's like right at the bottom. And then the bovine 485 00:22:46,738 --> 00:22:49,698 collagen, it's already like processed, it's already gone up one 486 00:22:49,722 --> 00:22:52,418 layer. So, like, it's kind of already done some of the work for you. 487 00:22:52,522 --> 00:22:55,388 It's more. It's a more direct source, than your 488 00:22:55,412 --> 00:22:57,996 body having to like, do extra work to kind of digest it 489 00:22:58,036 --> 00:23:00,880 and sort out and put it in the right filing cabinet, 490 00:23:01,008 --> 00:23:03,968 like, but then there's also another step of 491 00:23:03,992 --> 00:23:06,912 that of like you want hydrolyzed collagen because again, 492 00:23:06,984 --> 00:23:09,776 it's just a bit broken down and your body, it can 493 00:23:09,816 --> 00:23:12,608 absorb it easier and it's easier to digest and it's like. 494 00:23:12,712 --> 00:23:15,648 So hydrolyzed collagen is ideally what 495 00:23:15,672 --> 00:23:18,496 you're looking for and then you can either get it just like 496 00:23:18,536 --> 00:23:21,280 pure, literally just a white powder, nothing 497 00:23:21,328 --> 00:23:24,256 else in it. Lovely. Don't want gums, we don't want 498 00:23:24,296 --> 00:23:27,082 stabilisers. Well, there might be stabilisers because that's like, 499 00:23:27,184 --> 00:23:28,278 you know, shelf stable. 500 00:23:28,342 --> 00:23:28,518 >> Charlie: But. 501 00:23:28,542 --> 00:23:31,430 >> Sian Seccombe: Yeah, yeah, exactly. But you don't want like fillers 502 00:23:31,478 --> 00:23:32,022 and. 503 00:23:32,174 --> 00:23:35,014 >> Charlie: Yeah, I was going to ask about this. Like, what, what should 504 00:23:35,070 --> 00:23:38,006 we be avoiding? What are the kind of red flags to see 505 00:23:38,046 --> 00:23:39,926 on the back of the pack that we don't want to see in there? 506 00:23:39,926 --> 00:23:42,870 >> Sian Seccombe: Ah, yeah, like, personally I always avoid like the 507 00:23:42,878 --> 00:23:45,366 plague, alcohol, sugars. So anything ending in 508 00:23:45,406 --> 00:23:48,060 ol, especially if you're an IBS girl, like I 509 00:23:48,068 --> 00:23:50,300 am, oh, they're gonna send you absolutely 510 00:23:50,348 --> 00:23:53,340 sideways and then you won't be doing your long run because you'll be 511 00:23:53,348 --> 00:23:56,026 in the bushes. So there we go, let's avoid those. 512 00:23:56,776 --> 00:23:59,648 but yeah, I think as well it's then thinking about like 513 00:23:59,672 --> 00:24:02,672 we were talking about earlier about like the vitamin C. So when you're 514 00:24:02,704 --> 00:24:05,568 taking your collagen supplement, you can either look for one which has 515 00:24:05,592 --> 00:24:08,544 vitamin C in it. So like, you know, like the little sachet 516 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,264 ones, like they're also very expensive though. 517 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,288 Like I have a massive tub of just like the 518 00:24:14,312 --> 00:24:16,864 hydrolyzed collagen powder that I just like chuck into 519 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,658 things. It's like 20 quid on Amazon, like or 520 00:24:19,682 --> 00:24:22,490 wherever you want to get them from. Like they're, they're 521 00:24:22,538 --> 00:24:25,434 a much easier source but you just then have to think about how you're 522 00:24:25,450 --> 00:24:28,394 adding them into your diet. Yeah, but actually the most important thing is that you're 523 00:24:28,410 --> 00:24:31,370 taking it right rather than it's all well and good having it, but if it's just 524 00:24:31,378 --> 00:24:34,186 sitting in the cupboard, it's not, it's not helping. So 525 00:24:34,226 --> 00:24:37,050 it's then kind of going, okay, am I taking it with a 526 00:24:37,058 --> 00:24:39,946 source of vitamin C? So if I'm putting it my 527 00:24:39,986 --> 00:24:42,826 smoothie. Is there an orange juice in there? 528 00:24:42,866 --> 00:24:45,754 Is there ah, like something else with vitamin C? 529 00:24:45,890 --> 00:24:48,856 Mango, pineapple, like anything really. 530 00:24:49,716 --> 00:24:52,556 And then also like how you're taking it, 531 00:24:52,676 --> 00:24:55,500 you can take it with anything. Like there is nothing 532 00:24:55,548 --> 00:24:58,396 that's going to stop it being as Good as it would 533 00:24:58,436 --> 00:25:01,276 be. So, like, I know lots of people put them in coffees now. 534 00:25:01,316 --> 00:25:03,888 So, like, heating up, not going to be a problem. 535 00:25:04,072 --> 00:25:07,056 It's fine. Like, it doesn't like, 536 00:25:07,096 --> 00:25:09,696 null the properties of what it's trying to do. 537 00:25:09,816 --> 00:25:12,320 Because we're not heating up to like 538 00:25:12,488 --> 00:25:15,218 90 degrees here. We're just making it 539 00:25:15,242 --> 00:25:17,970 warm to drink it. We're not denaturing the 540 00:25:17,978 --> 00:25:20,978 proteins, we're not breaking down the amino acids. Like, if 541 00:25:21,002 --> 00:25:23,766 you kind of think of it like when you cook a chicken breast, 542 00:25:24,266 --> 00:25:26,914 the chicken breast is then not protein because you've cooked it 543 00:25:26,970 --> 00:25:29,570 and that's going to be a lot hotter than if you've made a 544 00:25:29,578 --> 00:25:32,530 coffee. So it's kind of like the boundary. 545 00:25:32,578 --> 00:25:34,066 But it's absolutely fine having it. 546 00:25:34,106 --> 00:25:36,674 >> Charlie: And there's no sort of caffeine inhibitor 547 00:25:36,850 --> 00:25:38,498 with the collagen. 548 00:25:38,642 --> 00:25:41,576 >> Sian Seccombe: Not that they've proven. Yeah, not 549 00:25:41,616 --> 00:25:44,376 that there's actually enough robust evidence on, 550 00:25:45,866 --> 00:25:48,498 caffeine in itself is a whole nother wild 551 00:25:48,562 --> 00:25:51,174 world of like, ergogenic, sport aid and supplement. 552 00:25:51,270 --> 00:25:54,138 Like, it's a wild world. but I just really 553 00:25:54,162 --> 00:25:56,166 like coffee, so I drink the same. 554 00:25:57,586 --> 00:26:00,474 But actually, you know, then, then someone goes, right, I'm going to prove 555 00:26:00,490 --> 00:26:03,450 coffee is good for you. So they write, right, look how many antioxidants 556 00:26:03,498 --> 00:26:05,994 and everything else is in there. And it's a wonder drug. 557 00:26:06,050 --> 00:26:08,474 >> Charlie: It's delicious. I'm not going to give up that morning 558 00:26:08,530 --> 00:26:09,088 coffee. 559 00:26:09,202 --> 00:26:12,180 >> Sian Seccombe: No, that's the thing. That's the 560 00:26:12,188 --> 00:26:15,188 thing. Like, actually, in the grand scheme of things, 561 00:26:15,372 --> 00:26:18,260 if having it in your coffee is going to be the 562 00:26:18,268 --> 00:26:21,012 way that you take it, cool, Absolutely 563 00:26:21,044 --> 00:26:23,844 fine. Like, if remembering to have it is going to be 564 00:26:23,900 --> 00:26:26,676 having it with your electrolytes when you have those, or you 565 00:26:26,716 --> 00:26:29,540 stack it in with your creatine and everything else you're putting in your bottle, 566 00:26:29,588 --> 00:26:32,516 like, the best thing to do is take it daily. If 567 00:26:32,556 --> 00:26:35,366 you're going to be supplement with it, in terms 568 00:26:35,406 --> 00:26:37,478 of like amounts for, like, daily 569 00:26:37,542 --> 00:26:40,406 consumption. I would also 570 00:26:40,526 --> 00:26:43,478 say a preface that just test it out on 571 00:26:43,502 --> 00:26:46,326 a day that you are, like, at home or, 572 00:26:46,366 --> 00:26:49,014 like, gonna see how your tummy reacts. Because some people 573 00:26:49,070 --> 00:26:52,038 do have kind of like, interesting effects when 574 00:26:52,062 --> 00:26:54,186 they take, like, pure collagen. 575 00:26:55,386 --> 00:26:58,258 it's just kind of like an anecdotal. It's nothing to, 576 00:26:58,282 --> 00:27:01,118 it's nothing to be scared of. It's just if you think about if you 577 00:27:01,142 --> 00:27:04,078 ate like a massive steak and you hadn't had one for like two weeks, 578 00:27:04,102 --> 00:27:06,990 your stomach would be like, oh, hello. What we got? What are we doing here? And 579 00:27:06,998 --> 00:27:09,998 it's just that kind of like a similar thing of like, just. Just give your stomach 580 00:27:10,062 --> 00:27:12,878 or like do a half dose the first time you've done it. Just to like, be 581 00:27:12,902 --> 00:27:15,854 like giving you a heads up here. Stomach. This is what we're 582 00:27:15,870 --> 00:27:16,414 dealing with now. 583 00:27:16,470 --> 00:27:17,206 >> Charlie: Yeah, yeah. 584 00:27:17,476 --> 00:27:20,380 >> Sian Seccombe: but it's quite. Because again, it's the, like 585 00:27:20,468 --> 00:27:22,860 looking at the rest of your diet and 586 00:27:22,948 --> 00:27:25,724 seeing how much protein am I getting from elsewhere. 587 00:27:25,820 --> 00:27:28,738 Blah. I would just go with the 588 00:27:28,762 --> 00:27:31,122 dosage that's on the packet of the particular collagen you're 589 00:27:31,154 --> 00:27:33,682 using. But in terms of for 590 00:27:33,834 --> 00:27:36,818 injury, they say the kind of 591 00:27:36,842 --> 00:27:39,378 evidence is around 10 to 20 grammes, 592 00:27:39,522 --> 00:27:42,450 30 to 60 minutes before the stress episode. 593 00:27:42,498 --> 00:27:45,490 So before the exercises or the rehab 594 00:27:45,538 --> 00:27:48,434 or whatever you're going to do. That's where 595 00:27:48,490 --> 00:27:51,330 that's the dosage that they suggest will actually increase the 596 00:27:51,338 --> 00:27:54,242 collagen synthesis rates the most for specific 597 00:27:54,354 --> 00:27:57,288 tendon issues and tendon repair and 598 00:27:57,312 --> 00:27:59,928 recovery. similar dosage is 599 00:27:59,952 --> 00:28:02,716 suggested kind of with like surgery and wound repair. 600 00:28:03,056 --> 00:28:05,736 Obviously you're not gonna then like do exercise after 601 00:28:05,776 --> 00:28:08,760 that, but, like, actually those kind of dosages, 602 00:28:08,888 --> 00:28:11,848 perhaps both ends of the day, is what 603 00:28:11,872 --> 00:28:14,872 people are kind of looking at in terms of when they're doing the studies 604 00:28:14,904 --> 00:28:17,880 to investigate this. Those. The ballparks 605 00:28:17,928 --> 00:28:20,920 of how much they're looking at. So it's not huge amounts, but 606 00:28:20,928 --> 00:28:23,728 it's also not small amounts. So 607 00:28:23,752 --> 00:28:26,650 it's. Yeah, it's more in the realms of like, ah, my protein yoghurt 608 00:28:26,698 --> 00:28:29,658 has 15 grammes. Like, that's more the kind of realms of 609 00:28:29,682 --> 00:28:32,650 collagen we're looking at. It's not like a beta alanine, where 610 00:28:32,658 --> 00:28:35,386 you've got like 2, 3 grammes. It's. It's 10 to 611 00:28:35,426 --> 00:28:36,346 20 grammes. 612 00:28:36,426 --> 00:28:39,338 >> Charlie: Yeah. Which I think in my experience is usually what they 613 00:28:39,362 --> 00:28:42,282 suggest in the back of the pack. Mine certainly says two scoops 614 00:28:42,314 --> 00:28:45,086 is 20 grammes. I usually just do one in my coffee. 615 00:28:45,676 --> 00:28:48,420 and that's. I just find two is a 616 00:28:48,428 --> 00:28:51,416 bit overwhelming in terms of then the flavour and the, 617 00:28:51,456 --> 00:28:53,016 like, the texture change. 618 00:28:53,136 --> 00:28:55,128 >> Sian Seccombe: Yeah, the texture's weird sometimes, isn't it? 619 00:28:55,152 --> 00:28:56,056 >> Charlie: Like, yeah. 620 00:28:56,216 --> 00:28:59,192 >> Sian Seccombe: It's also just trying ones and seeing which ones you like best 621 00:28:59,264 --> 00:29:02,252 and, work for you best because you can get ones which are like, stacked 622 00:29:02,284 --> 00:29:05,276 with like, you've got your vitamin C, you've got hyaluronic acids, you've got other 623 00:29:05,316 --> 00:29:08,188 things in there. And especially if you're a kind of a woman in 624 00:29:08,212 --> 00:29:11,004 your 30s, you're going. Right. There's actually a list of things I'm trying to hit 625 00:29:11,060 --> 00:29:13,948 right now? Is there a. Is there a collagen 626 00:29:14,012 --> 00:29:16,992 that might have all of these lovely things in there for me? So it's like 627 00:29:17,064 --> 00:29:18,736 just making your life easier. Really. 628 00:29:18,856 --> 00:29:21,744 >> Charlie: Love that. Yeah, we're all about trying to streamline things because, 629 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,480 yeah, like you say, there are so many supplements 630 00:29:24,528 --> 00:29:26,688 that we like 631 00:29:26,792 --> 00:29:29,696 Instagram, like media tells us that we 632 00:29:29,736 --> 00:29:32,416 should be taking. And it's trying to philtre that down 633 00:29:32,456 --> 00:29:34,976 and think what's actually the most 634 00:29:35,016 --> 00:29:38,016 necessary for me? What are my goals, what am 635 00:29:38,056 --> 00:29:40,560 I, what's the rest of my diet looking like? 636 00:29:40,648 --> 00:29:43,560 What, you know, what actually is going to make a 637 00:29:43,568 --> 00:29:46,376 difference and when should I be doing that and what should I be taking? Because 638 00:29:46,416 --> 00:29:48,568 it's not. Supplementation is such an 639 00:29:48,592 --> 00:29:51,560 uncontrolled, unregulated market 640 00:29:51,648 --> 00:29:53,996 that it's. Yes, it's quite scary 641 00:29:54,576 --> 00:29:55,752 what you could be taking. 642 00:29:55,904 --> 00:29:57,736 >> Sian Seccombe: It's. It's the wild west. 643 00:29:57,856 --> 00:30:00,840 Honestly, some of the stuff I see on Instagram and 644 00:30:00,848 --> 00:30:03,720 TikTok, like, I mean, I've. I'm doing a 645 00:30:03,728 --> 00:30:06,648 masters at the moment and literally we do 646 00:30:06,672 --> 00:30:09,624 a module about the wild west of supplements because it's 647 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,618 so crazy of like, the stuff people say. And I 648 00:30:12,642 --> 00:30:15,466 also think, like, there's quite a comparison 649 00:30:15,546 --> 00:30:18,522 trap you get stuck in with Instagram and stuff of like, oh, 650 00:30:18,554 --> 00:30:21,354 no, everyone else is taking collagen. I'm not taking collagen. I'm 651 00:30:21,370 --> 00:30:24,362 falling behind. I'm failing as a woman and I'm going to end up wrinkly and grey 652 00:30:24,394 --> 00:30:27,130 and in a corner on my own. Like, no, it's all fine. 653 00:30:27,178 --> 00:30:30,058 Don't worry, guys. Like, just because everyone else is doing it 654 00:30:30,162 --> 00:30:33,098 doesn't mean you need to do it. And actually your diet 655 00:30:33,162 --> 00:30:35,802 could be way better than everyone else than the people that you're 656 00:30:35,834 --> 00:30:38,708 worried you're, like, not doing as well as, or 657 00:30:38,732 --> 00:30:41,684 like not doing the right thing as, like. Actually, to be honest, it's 658 00:30:41,700 --> 00:30:44,580 probably a marketing campaign. Someone's trying to sell you something and it's just 659 00:30:44,588 --> 00:30:47,460 about money. Whereas actually you can look at 660 00:30:47,468 --> 00:30:50,324 your own diet and go, you know what, let's look at my 661 00:30:50,380 --> 00:30:53,204 food first as a food 662 00:30:53,260 --> 00:30:56,020 first approach. That's always going to be the best 663 00:30:56,108 --> 00:30:59,044 way to give your body what it needs is 664 00:30:59,100 --> 00:31:01,796 in the form that it actually came from first. 665 00:31:01,916 --> 00:31:04,324 So the closer something looks to real 666 00:31:04,380 --> 00:31:07,338 food, the happier your body's going to be 667 00:31:07,362 --> 00:31:10,282 with it, really. Because then there's definitely no like alcohol, sugars 668 00:31:10,314 --> 00:31:13,178 or weird things in there. So if you look 669 00:31:13,202 --> 00:31:16,154 at your diet and you go, you know what? I actually eat a really 670 00:31:16,210 --> 00:31:19,210 good amount of protein. You're going to be giving your body 671 00:31:19,298 --> 00:31:22,298 what it needs for collagen. Could you supplement 672 00:31:22,362 --> 00:31:25,130 if you would like to? Absolutely. Is it going to 673 00:31:25,138 --> 00:31:27,898 hurt? No. Do you need 674 00:31:28,002 --> 00:31:30,868 to? People have 675 00:31:30,892 --> 00:31:33,716 not been supplementing with collagen for very many years and have all been 676 00:31:33,756 --> 00:31:36,532 fine. So, like, there's no one 677 00:31:36,684 --> 00:31:39,508 very. Like, you would probably have to have a medical issue to be 678 00:31:39,532 --> 00:31:42,324 deficient in protein or deficient in collagen. 679 00:31:42,500 --> 00:31:45,236 So it's actually just going, okay, am I 680 00:31:45,276 --> 00:31:48,228 supporting my body in a whole picture? The best way 681 00:31:48,252 --> 00:31:51,124 possible. You're doing all right. Like, don't. It's not. 682 00:31:51,180 --> 00:31:54,068 If you forget to have your collagen one day, it's fine. It's not 683 00:31:54,092 --> 00:31:57,092 the end of the world. Like, diets don't have to be perfect. 684 00:31:57,284 --> 00:32:00,056 Bodies don't either. It's absolutely fine. 685 00:32:00,796 --> 00:32:03,780 >> Charlie: So, okay, just to kind of sum up, we're saying a 686 00:32:03,788 --> 00:32:06,628 lot of people just said in the question box, where do I 687 00:32:06,652 --> 00:32:09,588 start? And so from what I'm kind of 688 00:32:09,612 --> 00:32:12,548 gathering is that we start with food. We look 689 00:32:12,572 --> 00:32:15,268 at the diet as a whole. Am I getting these sources 690 00:32:15,412 --> 00:32:18,308 of collagen in my diet? Am 691 00:32:18,332 --> 00:32:21,246 I going through a rehab, an injury, a 692 00:32:21,286 --> 00:32:24,266 recovery process? Maybe, 693 00:32:24,216 --> 00:32:27,200 then I want to start adding in some collagen. Or maybe I look at 694 00:32:27,208 --> 00:32:30,144 my diet and I think, actually I'm vegetarian, I'm vegan, or 695 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,024 I don't eat a lot of meat or I don't know about anyone 696 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,032 else, but I feel like I eat more meat at the weekends 697 00:32:36,064 --> 00:32:38,704 when I'm like, eating at home. Whereas, like the kind of pat lunches for 698 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,504 work or just like kind of, you know, quick 699 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,220 dinners that I'm having are, maybe 700 00:32:44,348 --> 00:32:47,260 less. And especially breakfast. Like weekends I have eggs for 701 00:32:47,268 --> 00:32:50,130 breakfast. Weekdays I have overnight 702 00:32:50,178 --> 00:32:52,994 oats. So it's. Yeah, my week 703 00:32:53,050 --> 00:32:55,682 maybe is balanced, but during the week 704 00:32:55,834 --> 00:32:58,770 where I'm doing the most of my training maybe isn't so balanced. So just kind 705 00:32:58,778 --> 00:33:01,626 of, for me, it's, that's why I kind of thought actually 706 00:33:01,666 --> 00:33:02,970 this might be beneficial. 707 00:33:03,098 --> 00:33:05,898 >> Sian Seccombe: And that's. So that's exactly like, that's such a good way of 708 00:33:05,922 --> 00:33:08,666 thinking about it. Because if you think when 709 00:33:08,706 --> 00:33:11,498 you're stacking your training, a lot of your training is 710 00:33:11,522 --> 00:33:14,506 happening, then when you're going, okay, actually this is not 711 00:33:14,546 --> 00:33:16,966 where I'm getting my most, like, optimal, 712 00:33:17,306 --> 00:33:20,066 like protein sources. And your 713 00:33:20,106 --> 00:33:22,898 body, like we've said earlier, it can't keep hold of 714 00:33:22,922 --> 00:33:25,858 those proteins, so it can't. Hang on, go, you 715 00:33:25,882 --> 00:33:28,850 know what? I'm going to use those in three days time when I know I'M going to 716 00:33:28,858 --> 00:33:31,744 the gym. It's. No, it doesn't work like that. so it is 717 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,640 actually going okay if I've got a massive strength session today 718 00:33:34,808 --> 00:33:37,808 or I'm doing a massive strength session tonight. I 719 00:33:37,832 --> 00:33:40,816 know my dinner tonight needs to have a really good 720 00:33:40,856 --> 00:33:43,698 protein source after the gym or am I going to have 721 00:33:43,722 --> 00:33:46,610 a protein supplement of some form or can I have a 722 00:33:46,618 --> 00:33:49,490 big bowl of Greek yoghurt and berries before I 723 00:33:49,498 --> 00:33:52,322 go to bed that's then going to give me a big protein 724 00:33:52,354 --> 00:33:55,330 boost that I'm going to go to sleep. All these recovery protein synthesis is going to 725 00:33:55,338 --> 00:33:58,002 happen and I've hit protein. So Greek 726 00:33:58,034 --> 00:34:00,802 yoghurt, berries, protein and vitamin C. 727 00:34:00,874 --> 00:34:01,346 Lovely. 728 00:34:01,426 --> 00:34:04,370 >> Charlie: That's perfect. That is my daily with a little bit of dark 729 00:34:04,418 --> 00:34:06,886 chocolate. That's my like pre bed 730 00:34:07,356 --> 00:34:08,132 most nights. 731 00:34:08,164 --> 00:34:10,052 >> Sian Seccombe: Yeah, chocolate's antioxidants is fine. 732 00:34:10,164 --> 00:34:11,476 >> Charlie: Perfect. Yeah. 733 00:34:11,556 --> 00:34:14,536 >> Sian Seccombe: It's actually, it's a vegetable, it's a plant at this point it's fine. 734 00:34:15,276 --> 00:34:18,068 >> Charlie: Just coffee and chocolate. Don't take it away from me. Tell me 735 00:34:18,092 --> 00:34:20,164 it's an essential part of my diet. 736 00:34:20,260 --> 00:34:23,156 >> Sian Seccombe: Yeah. And also like as a runner probably is 737 00:34:23,276 --> 00:34:26,244 like the worst diet you can have is one that doesn't have enough energy. 738 00:34:26,380 --> 00:34:29,314 So anyone who tells me I can't eat chocolate or coffee, I 739 00:34:29,370 --> 00:34:31,858 absolutely see it. I'm not involved in 740 00:34:31,882 --> 00:34:32,498 this. 741 00:34:32,682 --> 00:34:35,634 >> Charlie: I feel like that is the perfect way to finish the especially 742 00:34:35,690 --> 00:34:38,562 given that it's like January, people are 743 00:34:38,714 --> 00:34:41,586 feeling like they kind of need to be doing all the things or 744 00:34:41,626 --> 00:34:44,576 cutting everything out. The most important message. And 745 00:34:44,576 --> 00:34:47,506 M again this is not really collagen related but I love that 746 00:34:47,546 --> 00:34:50,418 that the worst diet is one that doesn't have enough energy. 747 00:34:50,522 --> 00:34:53,266 So yeah, make sure you are fueling your 748 00:34:53,306 --> 00:34:53,874 runs. 749 00:34:53,970 --> 00:34:56,898 >> Sian Seccombe: Exactly. And if you're hitting your energy in 750 00:34:56,922 --> 00:34:59,826 all likelihood you are having enough protein and enough 751 00:34:59,866 --> 00:35:02,548 amino acids to give your body what it 752 00:35:02,572 --> 00:35:05,444 needs to go through all the collagen synthesis process 753 00:35:05,500 --> 00:35:08,356 and look after your tendons and muscles. So it is actually 754 00:35:08,396 --> 00:35:11,140 going. If you then decide come January 1st, you know 755 00:35:11,148 --> 00:35:14,068 what, I'm going to start training for London marathon. I'm going to restrict my 756 00:35:14,092 --> 00:35:16,868 food. Oh, you are on a one way path to injury 757 00:35:16,932 --> 00:35:19,922 and burnout. Like that is not. Oh, let's not 758 00:35:19,946 --> 00:35:22,674 do that. It's not fun. It's not fun for anyone. Like 759 00:35:22,762 --> 00:35:25,714 actually making sure your diet, you're looking at your diet 760 00:35:25,762 --> 00:35:28,468 going, what's the most nutritious thing? Like 761 00:35:28,524 --> 00:35:31,380 actually going, you know what, we're going to add things to our 762 00:35:31,420 --> 00:35:34,052 diet, not take things away. So 763 00:35:34,076 --> 00:35:36,932 okay, I know I want to think about my collagen. I'm going 764 00:35:36,956 --> 00:35:39,844 to add in and make sure I'm having enough 765 00:35:39,932 --> 00:35:42,868 protein and vitamin C. Those type of 766 00:35:42,924 --> 00:35:45,764 ways of looking at your diet, like that shift almost 767 00:35:45,932 --> 00:35:48,820 of like the mindset of doesn't have to come from 768 00:35:48,860 --> 00:35:51,708 supplement. Like it is actually coming from food as well. 769 00:35:51,804 --> 00:35:54,748 And just looking at your diet and going, you know, actually it's 770 00:35:54,764 --> 00:35:57,740 not a magic wand having a collagen supplement. We 771 00:35:57,780 --> 00:36:00,540 can do this through food. I might well be okay already. 772 00:36:00,660 --> 00:36:03,660 And it is okay to go. Actually I'm going to, I'm going to pass 773 00:36:03,700 --> 00:36:06,412 on the collagen supplement right now. Like I might add it in 774 00:36:06,516 --> 00:36:09,164 later in my training in my marathon block because 775 00:36:09,252 --> 00:36:12,172 actually that's when I'm starting to feel like I'm really feeling the 776 00:36:12,196 --> 00:36:14,800 effects of training. I'm not recovering properly. 777 00:36:15,380 --> 00:36:18,084 That's when you go, okay, I'm going to start looking at like 778 00:36:18,212 --> 00:36:20,836 a, energy availability and then B, potentially 779 00:36:20,868 --> 00:36:22,788 protein intake and protein kind of 780 00:36:22,844 --> 00:36:25,812 completeness again. Yeah. Could collagen help 781 00:36:25,836 --> 00:36:28,720 around your gym sessions? Maybe. Happy days. 782 00:36:29,020 --> 00:36:31,892 >> Charlie: Great. And thank you so much. I'm going to leave a link to 783 00:36:31,916 --> 00:36:34,366 some of the, collagen supplements that 784 00:36:34,518 --> 00:36:37,470 we, we would recommend in terms of if 785 00:36:37,510 --> 00:36:40,062 that is something you want to try that don't have the 786 00:36:40,086 --> 00:36:42,478 artificial sweeteners that or the sugar 787 00:36:42,494 --> 00:36:45,240 alcohols that, are available on 788 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,264 XMiles. This podcast is sponsored by xmiles. If you do want to 789 00:36:48,272 --> 00:36:50,840 try it, there's be a little discount code in the show 790 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,848 notes. Thank 791 00:36:53,864 --> 00:36:56,536 you so much for listening to this week's episode of the Cook Eat Run 792 00:36:56,608 --> 00:36:59,592 podcast with X Miles. Hope you found it as interesting as 793 00:36:59,616 --> 00:37:02,328 I did and please let me know if there are any other topics you want 794 00:37:02,384 --> 00:37:05,080 covered. I'd love to be able to share more kind of 795 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:07,896 useful information, especially for women runners 796 00:37:07,928 --> 00:37:10,402 and over 30, which I'm definitely in that 797 00:37:10,426 --> 00:37:13,378 category. Don't forget to subscribe wherever you listen 798 00:37:13,394 --> 00:37:16,290 to the show and leave a rating and review. It really helps. And 799 00:37:16,330 --> 00:37:19,010 yeah, send me a DM on what m topics you want us to cover this 800 00:37:19,050 --> 00:37:19,630 year. 801 00:37:22,330 --> 00:37:25,234 Thank you so much for listening to Cook Run, the podcast 802 00:37:25,282 --> 00:37:28,162 hosted by me, Charlie Watson, sponsored by X Miles. 803 00:37:28,226 --> 00:37:30,790 They are your one stop nutrition shop. 804 00:37:32,570 --> 00:37:35,510 Come and find me on social media thereunner. beans and 805 00:37:35,550 --> 00:37:38,454 tell me what you're loving on the podcast. Send me all of your questions 806 00:37:38,502 --> 00:37:41,478 and suggestions for future episodes. All the links 807 00:37:41,494 --> 00:37:43,610 you need to connect with me are in the show notes. 808 00:37:44,750 --> 00:37:47,638 Lastly, please rate the Cook Run podcast. 809 00:37:47,734 --> 00:37:50,518 It really means a lot to see your ratings and reviews. 810 00:37:50,614 --> 00:37:53,254 Obviously the five star ones go down very well, 811 00:37:53,342 --> 00:37:56,262 but please let me know what you think. It really does make a 812 00:37:56,286 --> 00:37:59,222 massive difference as it helps more people discover us and join our 813 00:37:59,246 --> 00:38:00,530 amazing running community. 814 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,072 See you back here for another episode soon. In the meantime, 815 00:38:05,136 --> 00:38:07,620 happy running and don't forget to fuel yourself. 816 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:08,320 Bye.