But if poverty is your backdrop where a third of residents in this city are living at or below the poverty line, then the minute that 70 $80 bill becomes 90 a hundred, they can't afford it. So one, they're, they're priced out. So it doesn't matter what infrastructure's here, they can't afford it. And then the other part that we've seen, this is where we have the conversation about digital red lining, that the same redlining that happened with the banks and when they were denying these, these loans for people to live in certain neighborhoods digitally, that same thing happened as well because these large internet providers were like, look, there's only six people on this block who are realistic gonna pay. Why would we roll out the services over here? We're not gonna get our ROI and by the time we do. The technology is gonna be obsolete, so let's just skip it. And so that has been a reality where it's either not competitive, the pricing doesn't work, or the infrastructure's dilapidated that combines together and that creates the perfect storm. That is the digital divide.

We'll discuss race and how it plays a factor and how we didn't even talk about this topic 'cause we were afraid

A Black Executive Perspective.

We are coming to you live from the new BEP studio for another thought provoking episode of A Black Executive Perspective podcast, A safe space where we discuss all matters regarding race, culture, and those uncomfortable topics people tend to avoid. I'm your host Tony Tidbit,

and I'm your cohost Chris P. Reed We always like to start out by giving a shout out to our partners at Code M Magazine, code M Magazine, where the mission is saving the black family. By first saving the black man, check 'em out. Code m magazines two ms.com. Check 'em out.

Yeah, definitely check our partners out. And today we're going to explore Cleveland's digital in inequality where systemic disinvestment has shut residents out from essential services. That is true. It's hard to believe in 2025, our guest, Joshua Edmond, CEO of Digital C, will reveal how his nonprofit ISP is bridging the digital divide, covering over a hundred thousand households and challenging perceptions about affordable internet. With Josh, we're gonna explore how Cleveland's history informs Digital Sea's mission and how they're forging a future where connectivity empowers communities.

Before we dive too deep into this, I want to give a little background of, of our guest here. So, Joshua Edmonds serves as a Chief Executive Officer of Digital Sea. Where he is reshaping Cleveland's digital landscape with visionary leadership and unyielding ambition. Under his guidance, Digital C has secured $53 million in investments from public, private, and philanthropic sources, enabling the nonprofit to challenge traditional telecom giants and address Cleveland's historical digital divide, driven by a mission of equity and innovation, digital seed tirelessly fosters community-based partnerships to deliver high speed internet access and customized digital skills training for the residents of Cleveland, Ohio. Edmond's strategic approach has quickly transformed digital seed's network into a homegrown success story proving that local initiatives can thrive even when we put up against corporate competition. He has been recognized by Forbes, govtech, and other highly credited outlets for its impact extending far beyond just connectivity. Utilizing his degrees from Notre Dame College and Howard University, he has positioned Cleveland as a national leader in digital equity and inclusion. Yeah. Through his forward thinking leadership, Digital C stands as a model of excellence, innovation and resilience. Resilience. Joshua Edmonds, welcome to A Black Executive Perspective podcast.

Man. Thank you. That is bad. You did my bio justice. I appreciate that. Thank you. No doubt. I mean, it's you, you

did it. I just read it. It's a partnership. But to be be, to be fair though, we took the five words that you sent us and we souped them up. We gp ptd it, right? We it. Alright. We g ptd it. No, we're just getting bro, bro, you kidding me? You're fantastic. What you're doing, which we are gonna drive, dive into, we're excited that you're here. So welcome

man. Before we, uh, jump into the meat and potatoes, tell us a little bit about where you're currently residing and a little bit about your, your history, your family.

Yep. So, you know, I'm, I'm in Cleveland. I'm on the west side, uh, near, near our beach. Uh, yes, we, so we do have a beach. Uh, for real. I use that, I use that term loosely, but we have something. Um, you know, I live over there and you know, I, I, I live alone. You know, I'm single. Uh, the, the ladies we are, we're getting into dating season. So all the time I have into my company, uh, I'm gonna have to maybe, maybe in the summertime. I don't know. We'll have to figure something out. But, um, no, I, you know, it's just me out here. My family does live, uh, in, in, in Cleveland as well. So in the general area, I do get to see them on the weekends and just, my nephew has a track meet tomorrow, so I'm, I'm around them, but I make time,

buddy. That is awesome. And you know what the, you know, uh, you epitomize being an entrepreneur, right? A hundred percent into your business. Your baby. You're growing it, you're changing lives. You're saying the ladies can wait for right now, right? Summertime, maybe. Um, but you are, you're on a mission to build something special. And look, at the end of the day, um, as, as Chris went through your bio, man, I mean, the things that you're doing is, is transformative. Um, and you know, you are on a busy schedule. You just got off a board meeting just to jump on with us, right? You got a thousand things going on. So tell us why did you wanna come on A Black Executive Perspective podcast? Talk about this topic,

man. Well, I would say several reasons. The first thing, and this is really conceptualizes even this year, the, the power of storytelling. I can't understate that enough. And I know that you all obviously under overstand that point, but, you know, our company is one where if we don't tell the story, someone else is gonna tell their version of it. And they might leave out the details that are really important, uh, not just for, and, and they might even do it intentionally. Uh, we can guess why. And so, uh, one being able to tell that story, but two, you know, I, I want to shed light on the incredible work that we're doing in Cleveland because this is something that, while it only exists right now in Cleveland, the specific setup we have, the network that we're building, I. You know, the goal is to inspire another black executive. And they might not be a black executive today, but they can be one tomorrow. And just by way of them listening to this, it can inspire change well beyond what I can see. So, you know, it's, it is about telling this story from a company perspective, but it's really just inspiring. The, the next generation that I see is they're becoming quickly ready to take the helm on a lot of this digital technol technological innovations.

That is awesome, bro. I love it. Look at you a hundred percent. Give back all the time. So look, my brother, you ready to talk about it?

Man, I'm more than ready. I, I, I woke up ready. I saw that this was on my calendar at the beginning of the day. I knew what it was.

Well, that's good, man. So let's talk about it, buddy. So, you know, I have to say, and I would, I would be, I would imagine that people, the audience who are watching this or listening to this, when we think about digital divide. Wow. In 2025, it's, that's hard to to fathom. Right. You know, the majority of people have some type of smartphone. Um, you know, you could take college courses on your laptop. You can do, you can build a business out, uh, virtual. We meet virtually, we're doing this podcast, right? You are in Cleveland? Uh, Chris is in Dallas. You know, I'm in Connecticut. We're doing virtually all through the power of internet. Okay. And then specifically as he upgraded to broadband. So when you hear that people don't have access to the c connectivity, especially in big cities, it's like, are you kidding me? Mm-hmm. So, talk to us a little bit, let's kick it off about Cleveland's history of that digital inequality. What, what, what factors make that happen today, even in 2025?

Mm mm So, man, I'll, I'll. The US census had what's called the American Community Survey, and they still do. So this is where the data's coming from. This isn't coming from what I believe. This is what I know to be true. Cleveland has historically been ranked one of the least connected cities in America. The number one driving factor for that is, is going to be poverty. Our poverty rate, uh, you know, is, is one of the highest in, in the country. Um, and as we begin looking at our poverty rate, you can even compare it to rural poverty and see that the rural places that are unconnected, the urban cores now, not everywhere within our cities unconnected, but we do see them being under connected. Mm-hmm. And when you see them being under connected, it might be, well, you have internet in your neighborhood that charges you, you know, one year or first six months, it's like 30 or $40, and by the end of the year you're paying 90 and the next year you're paying 120. And you're scratching your head saying, wait, I thought I signed up for, and it's like, okay, for people who might have more disposable income, they're gonna stay connected. But if poverty is your backdrop where a third of residents in this city are living at or below the poverty line, then the minute that 70 $80 bill becomes 90, a hundred, they can't afford it. So one, they're, they're priced out. So it doesn't matter what infrastructure's here, they can't afford it. And then the other part that we've seen, this is where we have the conversation about digital red lining, that the same redlining that happened with the banks when they were denying these, these loans for people to live in certain neighborhoods digitally, that same thing happened as well because these large internet providers were like, look, there's only six people on this block who are realistic gonna pay. Why would we roll out the services over here? We're not gonna get our ROI and by the time we do, the technology is gonna be obsolete, so let's just skip it. And so that has been a reality where it's either not competitive, the pricing doesn't work, or the infrastructure's dilapidated that combines together and that creates the perfect storm, that is the digital divide. Which is why all of those factors that I just named are the factors that we are countering with the service that we've developed. Because we knew, we studied this digital divide long enough. We said No more. No more of us being the least connected. Like that's, that's gotta stop. And when we zoom out for the case of Black America. Black America, yes. We have a very high percent of percentage of us who live in cities. And when you look at the digital divide, black people in this country have historically been least likely to have a high speed internet connection or a computer. They'll have a cell phone. So we do index very high end cell phones. We will have that because that is our lifeline and it's meant to be an all in one. So when you see a lot of black people having the newest iPhones and the newest whatever, it's because that is our all in one device. We might not have a laptop, we might not have a home internet, but we got a cell phone. And so this is where we're just trying to decouple these things and make it, lay it bare and say. This is the digital divide and the efforts that we've done thus far of acknowledging it, been fruitful enough to acknowledge, but not enough to get the job done, which is why we're so excited in Cleveland that we believe there's replicability in this model.

Uh, let me ask you this question because how did you get, how do you believe Cleveland got to this point to be so far behind on the curve? And is it that you have, is that the officials or the, the powers to be felt like you had more important things to concern yourself with? Or is it just somebody fell asleep at the wheel? What, what is your belief that got you to this point?

You know, I, I believe, I believe America actually was asleep at the wheel. Okay. Um, you know, I don't think that the digital divide is, is, is definitely not a local, local thing. I mean, NA, nationally, there was a brother by the name of Larry Irving. Um, in 1998, he had coined the term, the digital divide. He was working within the Clinton administration at the time, and he was seeing the potential for the internet. And he said, if we do not have the social infrastructure in place, when we roll this technology out, the haves are gonna get it and they're gonna run with it. And the have-nots are gonna be stuck. And there will be a digital divide. He said this in 98, and so now that we're in 2025, he was absolutely right, morbidly speaking, but he was right. Mm-hmm. And so I believe what ended up happening was America underestimated the power that the internet was going to have as relates to access an opportunity. I think that initially it was meant to be, you know, something for the military and then it starts to get developed for, you know, okay, we can do other things with it. But no one thought that all of your jobs would be online. No one thought that your, any type of your training or your, your benefits enrollments, your social service assistant, that that would all be on, that's all gonna be online. Or even dare I say in 2030 that the US census is gonna be online. Like these are the things that, it's like, we didn't anticipate that. So I think America didn't understand the power and the depth that the internet represented. And now as a result, we're now trying to catch up. And our catch up has largely been through underfunded or poorly funded nonprofit efforts that like, that's not gonna close the gap, um, anytime soon. And so you have to be disruptive. But I would absolutely believe, I don't think that that America prioritized it. I think what we did prioritize was competition, so to speak, of like, Hey, we want at and t over here at Verizon, over here, T-Mobile. We've done a good job there. But no one went to or went to the place where there was a business case that still had to be made for the third of us who couldn't connect a third of us who can't afford a 40 $50 subscription. There was no business model that was made off of that. It was only for the top and for all the people that we wanted to serve, versus the people that we begrudgingly have to serve. And I'm not using we as Digital C I'm just saying we as a telecom industry.

Right, right. You know, you just talked about a couple of things. So I had read that 38% of black or people of color, black and Hispanic, black and brown people, um, don't have, uh, broadband and not connected to the any internet. And a lot of those are rural south and stuff to that nature. Okay. However, you know, when you talked about the poverty, which is one area, then you talked about the digital redlining, that's another area. Right. And so when you think of those things, I, and I never even thought about digital redlining, which once you stated it, it makes total sense because at the end of the day. The companies that you talked about, at and t and T-Mobile, all these companies, at the end of the day, they are, uh, uh, about making money. And so, you know, and they know in today's, uh, world, and you just broke it down. You gotta remember back in the day, and I'm, when we talking back in the day, 15 years ago, maybe, you know, you used to get, uh, your, uh, internet with your cable, okay? And they used to do the triple play, right? Mm-hmm. And then if you didn't like the cable and you called them up and you want to cancel, they would enhance your cable. Or we'll give, we'll, we'll, we'll decrease the cable, or we'll give you extra sports channels 'cause they didn't want you to cancel. Mm-hmm. Today. You call 'em up and say, I don't like this cable package. I want to get rid of it. They'll say, okay, because they know that the cable means nothing. Now it's the, it is the internet. You are not going to cancel that. Okay. Because without that, you can't connect to everything. So there's a premium on that. And then to your point, when they start you off at this price and you start going to this price and it starts escalating, people who got, like you said, disposable income, they all argue about it, but at the end of the day, there's not a lot of places to go to decrease that cost. Because to your point, the competition, yeah, there's competition, but the competition ain't, is not in every neighborhood. Mm-hmm. There's still certain providers that own a neighborhood or own a region. Right. And now they're starting to to, to deregulate that, break that down, but give us some real life. Experience, man, of what people, uh, the stories that people are dealing with because they're under connected or because they're not, they don't, they can't, their school now has become, uh, everything online or their bank account. Talk a little bit real world issues that people that you deal with and you hear and see on a daily basis. My brother,

yeah, man. Okay. So, and, and we can use Cleveland as a microcosm here because I do believe like the state of black America is in many cases a parallel to Cleveland, where you do have black people in positions of authority. We have a black mayor, black council president. We have those things, but all at the same time, we also have pronounced and prominent black poverty too.

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And so when you, that juxtaposition, I believe is an is an American thing and not just a Cleveland thing. And when we begin looking at the real world cases for the digital divide, now we'll have people, even now our, we offer service through Digital C. The service is called Canopy. It's $18 a month, 65 cents a day, or in honor of Cleveland's area code $216 a year, the 2 1 6. So it works out really nicely. Um, even with that, people are still struggling to pay. And why are they struggling to pay? Uh, this could be a number of reasons, but I, what I would see is the disinvestment from banks in a lot of these neighborhoods who then wanna only have online banking. Okay, well, where bank did you give me the opportunity to, to have the acumen and understanding of how your banking portal works? That now I, who don't trust anything because nothing went right in my life. I'm now gonna trust this online portal with my money. Now I'm doing cash. See, that is an attitude right there. A third of Clevelanders are underbanked. Wow. So now a third of Clevelanders are underbanked. A third are struggling with, with a home internet connection. These po Like at some point it's like we were gonna see, we are talking about the same person over and over and over again. We have the children who are within the Cleveland Public School District. The school district pays for their internet. If you live in Cleveland and you have a kid in the school district, it's free for you. Now. Because they understand how pivotal that is, because they also understand that if grandma, uh, grandpa, auntie, uncle, whomever, if one of them says in that household, yeah, we don't like that technology. We don't do that tech, you know, I don't do that tech stuff. Next thing you know, when it comes time to pick a major or to pick a subject, I don't do that tech stuff. My family, we don't do tech. My family, we, we do, and this isn't a shot at them, but we do nursing in my family. Mm-hmm. No, you had the acumen, you had the ability to be an engineer, but just because the presence of technology wasn't in your home, you were limited. You didn't see the possibilities. Even when we get into learning in real time, if the internet, the only thing you think of on the internet is social media. That, that, like, that's, that's, that's a real thing. What we call that in our realm, we call that functional literacy. Meaning someone doesn't know how to create a resume. Someone doesn't know how to create a PowerPoint, but they know how to go on Instagram and they know how to go on Facebook. And that's not, we're not criticizing them, but it's more so showing them that it's like, look, the internet to your understanding is just this, it, it's just a bedroom when there's a mansion, an endless mansion of opportunity. But if you don't see that because you're now on this other side of the digital divide, again, that's real. Healthcare is transitioning from an efficiency standpoint to be primarily telehealth and, and digital enabled. And again, if you don't have that trust, you're not going going to engage. And we already see if you can't get into the doctor's office, 'cause they're gonna give you a date for however long into the future to actually see them face to face. Now people are foregoing their healthcare like the, the internet is the panacea to so many things that we've been waiting for in a city. But the counter to it is when it's not rolled out fairly, when it's not rolled out equitably, we can still say that word. It's not rolled out that way. What we end up getting is this continuous use case of this unboxing of like, man, we didn't even see that. Oh, we didn't see that. It doesn't matter if we're talking about wellbeing, we're talking about banking, we're talking about healthcare, we're talking about education, we're talking about workforce. Every sector in every area, you will find a direct correlation to the digital divide. The last one I'll say on the wellness side, you know, digital isolation is a thing. Um, as people are getting older and maybe they're getting a little bit more insular, um, if they don't have access to that internet, they're kind of unplugged. And you have a whole class of Americans, definitely Cleveland, there's Ohioans who are not plugged in to what's happening. And so when an election comes around, when a deep fake goes up, they can't tell the difference. So you can quite literally influence elections off of the ignorance. And I'm not calling people on the north side of the digital divide ignorant, but I am saying that if you do not have that understanding about how to navigate this digital world and protect yourself, you'll be duped, you'll be taken advantage of, and people will influence you in ways that have real world consequences all the way up to who is running a country, all the way down to opportunities that we just don't see.

I, I had in the past, uh, a couple days saw that you had mentioned the commercial in particular that kind of reemphasized the need for children and, and, uh, education. Um, tell us a little bit about that and then also some of the opportunities that have been earmarked, uh, for you to have funding and things of that nature and why you believe it's so difficult just to get what's coming to you based on what we have as an appetite nationally and locally.

Oh, now just, just, just, so Chris, are you talking about the commercial, about the 4,000.

No, the commercial about the kids at Taco Bell or wherever it was. Oh, oh,

okay, okay, okay. Yeah, I'm excited about a lot of stuff. Alright, so, so, you know, with the kids with the Taco Bell, you know, that was a moment of time during the pandemic and it perfect moment. Um, yeah. You know, the pandemic did more for the digital divide than really what all of our collective efforts have done. I mean, it really underscored the significance and it was able to drive home a point when you had those kids at the Taco Bell. Now here's the thing, we don't have another one of those moments that's being publicized and pushed. So now it's like the,

let's explain that moment just for people who may not have seen it. Yeah. Kind of set the scene there.

So there were children who were at a Taco Bell, if you all can imagine it's dark outside. They have their homework that they needed to do and they didn't have internet at home. And so they're sitting in a parking lot, if you imagine right in front of those parking spaces that those cement blocks. They were sitting on one of those, you know, on their, on their tablets and they're just connecting to the wifi within the restaurant. Is the wifi, you know, high speed enough for them to make a call, a video call? No. Is it high, high speed enough for them to make play games? No, but it was high speed enough for them to be able to do some research that they needed for their homework. Now it shouldn't come to this, right? Right. If we're not coming to, you are in the country that essentially invented the internet. You are in this country and the best we can do for you is have kids our future, sitting on these blocks outside in the middle of the night doing their homework. That was then the backdrop to the pandemic because that didn't just now happen in California. That didn't just happen in California. That's been happening for years. There are so many McDonald's, there are so many restaurants, neighborhoods where people, we can see the correlation between people who don't have home internet access and healthy eating pattern. Because if I'm spending all my time in fast food spots just to get my homework done, what am I gonna eat? Fast food every day. Like these are the things where I was like, okay. And then we wonder where heart disease, high blood, pre like it, it compounds over here. Um, especially in the food desert. And so that moment was particularly, that moment was, was incredibly important because it shifted the entire political understanding of the digital divide. What people were trying to make the digital divide be. Before was, it was only the people in rural America who didn't have access. Correct. It was never a city. The cities are covered. It's like if they're covered, then why is this happening? And since no one could answer that question, it resulted in over $45 billion of money being allocated under the Biden administration and the Infrastructure and Jobs Act to ensure that networks could be built equitably. That's where it was a B program, broadband equity access and deployment. And a lot of that money did not get allocated under that administration, and now it's currently getting allocated under this administration where the e doesn't matter anymore. That's, and so the story that was once said that galvanized the investment, the investment is still there. However, when you remove the e from the equation, what do we have now? And that's, that's us still trying to figure it out. You know, I, I don't necessarily know where all that goes. This is where I love where we are in Cleveland, because in Cleveland we had that case of those kids working out there at night. We don't have to deal with that reality anymore. Like we've built this network and we even said, alright, if you don't have $18 a month, you know what? For the kids in public school, we'll do it for you for free. Like that right there. I'll tell you, majority of our customers, we have over 4,000 Now, majority of them are from the school district. What does that mean? These are families who in the past were either struggling, didn't have it at all. We are changing trajectories in ways that. We can't even fully understand the scope of this because this has never happened before. We've never had a network that was built, homegrown in our city, headquartered in our city, led by over half the team lives in the city of Cleveland. We're now connecting our neighbors. It's not just some random person we see at a corner. Like these are people that we know and if Cleveland small enough where everyone knows everyone. So it's like, no, like I might not know you, but little did I know that that was someone's auntie who was actually at the Cleveland Clinic for what, like that is the type of stuff that's the power of a community-based network that we're unfolding right here in Cleveland. That to, in my opinion, is the evolution or the response to kids in fast food places when now kids can be at the safety and the comfort of their own home and they don't have to worry about, you know, doing whatever or whatever comes with being out that late at night just to do your homework. Mm-hmm.

It is, let me, let me just say this real quick. Go ahead. It seems like that's a slam dunk. It seems like this is a godsend. It should be a no-brainer, but I've heard you in previous instances say. It's not as easy as it should be based on interdependencies from governmental agencies. Can you talk about why it's, it should be easy and for whatever reason you only have 4,000, but you feel like you could have How many?

Man? So, so I, I, I'll tell you, so the contract, so we did enter into a contractual agreement with the city of Cleveland and they had their American rescue plan money, that was the COVID relief funding. And they allocated $20 million, uh, in a performance based contract that every year we had to hit X amount of, uh, residents connected. And so by the end of this year, we're shooting for 8,500 residents. Uh, but by the end of 2027, uh, we want to have 23,500 households in our network. And so as we grow and we scale this, we remember starting at zero in January, 2024. And you know, now that we're at the point where we are with the, over the 4,000, I mean, that's a point of pride for, I mean, I'm so proud, but to your point. The skepticism. You know, when we talk to residents, it's not just like, oh, it's $18, or it's free for you, that they just sign up. One, people who don't trust technology, it's hard to sell someone to someone that even if they don't, if they don't trust it, they don't trust it. So it doesn't matter how good it is, what whatever they can do, they don't want it. So it takes some time. Just gotta build that relationship so that the first one is just skepticism. Um, now they're gonna have that skepticism because if they live in these cities where they've seen historic disinvestment, historic things, not working, historic, whatever, like they're not willing to to, to trust us for real. So you got that. One second one. Um, even from a government standpoint, oh, this one's tougher because we're consistently having to make the case, um, to government entities and agencies. A lot of them might get it. But they want to get it through the way they understand how things work. And it's like, look, things have evolved. Like if your understanding is well back in the day, you know, 10 years ago, it's like technology is always is rapid. Like you, some fundamental things might be there, but there is a knowledge gap that we had to continuously fulfill even to stakeholders who are in the know that we had to continuously update them. Our technology that we've been building with in Cleveland is from Silicon Valley. You already know how far ahead Silicon Valley is in relation to a Midwestern city like Cleveland. They're way far ahead. So it's like when we went to the pinnacle of wireless engineering and brought that back to Cleveland. Oh yeah. I mean, we still have to explain it to people. They still don't understand. They still think that it's like, well, something's fishy. You guys are hiding something. There's no way you guys and government is supposed to do that. And our job is, we're supposed to be able to master the art of communications and storytelling to be able to. Get them off the fence and to be much more advocates for what we're being able to do. And I'll say the, the last part on the funding side, you know, at $18 a month, it is very difficult to sustain the momentum of this, the, this, this company and this endeavor. And so what we've been also doing has been making the case to our state government to be like, look, we are Ohio based company. We're the one, the only ones headquartered in Ohio. And there are opportunities for us to serve beyond Cleveland at some point. Like any endeavor, you can't just stay in your own market. You have to expand. And so with the expansion, we have been reaching out to different government bodies and we have an eye on, uh, Appalachia, Ohio. We want to, especially within this Trump administration, we want to look at some of these historically under connected areas and say, you know what, the same thing that they said about Cleveland, that it was impossible to do and that it would take forever. What we did it. So now I'm looking at Appalachia and it's like, it's been taking you all years to build out rural America and what we did in 18 months in Cleveland. I'm sure we can do something very spectacular in, in, in a comparable timeline as well in Appalachia. So the good thing is the government stakeholders, uh, were now hitting them where the value actually is of the things that they value versus the things that we value. And at some point we're gonna hit a convergence point, but I would say we're being very proactive with identifying the priorities of this administration that we know, and we're willing to skate to where we know the p where the park's gonna be.

Hey buddy. So just so I'm clear though, what, what made you get involved? What, how did, because right now you're a hundred percent passionate. Um, you're, you're doing, like I said, you're a godsend, you're transforming lives, but you know, prior to January, 2024, you were doing a bunch of other stuff. So what made you wanna start Digital C.

Oh, no, no, no. So sorry. So we were January 22, January of 2022. No, I'm sorry, November of 2022 is when I took over as CEO. Okay. Yep. So that was our, I would just say research and development and just making sure that we had, um, the, the, the right infrastructure, at least right enough to be able to, um, fulfill the, uh, contractual obligations. However, prior to that, you know, I was working for the, uh, mayor in the city of Detroit. So for four years, worked for the mayor, um, building out infrastructure in Detroit, and just even building out partnerships and making the case to the digital divide there. And so from that, prior to that was working in philanthropy, learning how to invest in digital equity initiatives. Uh, so there there's been, um, just a lot of experience that when I say it in retrospect, it seems like it was just orchestrated and I wouldn't even say, it seems I'll give God credit, like God led me. Um, so I, I have no problem saying that. Um, because even at the very beginning, I graduate my master's degree from Howard, I moved back to Cleveland and I'm working in public housing and I'm like, man, I got all this student loans and I'm working in public housing, trying to talk to some resident about why they need the internet. And I'm like, did I really get my master's degree to talk to, to someone about why they need internet? But um, that experience at working in public housing on the digital divide taught me probably more than every experience I've had since, um, it brought me down to a level of understanding and it ignited something in me saying, no, this isn't fair. And as black people, we are the people that when we see something isn't fair, we're gonna let you know. And we're either gonna let you know, we will verbally let you know, or our efforts, our work ethic, our result is gonna correspond to the change that we know is gonna be the equalizer that's needed to make the unfair fare.

Have you had moments, have you had moments in your ascension because you, you're talking about your path to where you are now, and I was thinking about the fact you said there were skepticism. Now I totally understand how this skepticism when you come to somebody house and had them put their name on something. But when we talk about the divided administration earmarked these funds and all these things are put in place and you have a blueprint from Silicon Valley, do you think it would be easier if you weren't so, uh, fair skinned? If y'all had a representative or a puppet kind of guy or you know, somebody to go in and tell the story, do you think it would be easier? Or do you think it is not? It's just that they just are ignorant of technology and are fearful of the advancement as we, uh, go forward,

you know? Fair, fair, fair points. You know, very fair. I'll, I'll say it this way though. It is money. I see it all. It's all money. It's money, money, money, money. These telecom industries are so wealthy. Like when, when you actually, everyone should just look at how much, how much portfolio these these companies have. Like it doesn't matter what internet service writer, I already mentioned some, and I'm not gonna mention any other ones 'cause I don't wanna give them the credit, but the fact that they not only own your internet experience, but they also own entire content studio. Yeah,

absolutely. Absolutely. So

they have the ability to influence messaging. They have the ability to influence every political campaign that you can think of. And so what I'm seeing is America oftentimes isn't operating in its best interest. America's operating in the interest of money, which I get it. Like that's how things work here. But I can see that there's been times we've operated in the interest of money that one technology are one. Internet service provider will have so much power to speak down on another technology that could actually be life changing for a city and say, that's not gonna work. Lawmaker, that's not gonna work. And you remember how it was in your campaign. So, and like they have the ability to do that. And that's why I try and tell people on our side, we as Digital C as a nonprofit, we don't have the ability to run a, um, a commercial on the Super Bowl. Like we, we don't have that. Like, I No way. What we have at the same time though, is the ability to community organize and to knock on these doors and use our relationships because it's like, look, when they go corporate, we go community. And those are equalizing factors. So it's like, as you look at America's digital divide, not just Cleveland's, then it's like, if America wants better internet, America has to organize for better. And so that's the part where. As we're seeing it, it's more time to organize and make the case be known that either we're not satisfied or we deserve something better, that works better. Or at least I can get behind that more because I can see a theory of change there if they're going at me just because I'm black. There's no theory of change. And to me, like my mind would tell me I'm not gonna become white anytime soon. And so it's like if I know that, then there's no point in me even playing the game. I'd rather not look at that as a limiting factor and just say the only limiting factor is we have not organized effectively and we are not educated to the degree, to the degree at which we can make change. And I feel like Cleveland is the model that is then showing again, the replicability that another city can say, you know what X administration, what they did in Cleveland. I want that in every single one of these big cities across the country. And like that is where all someone has to do is building it all. Someone has to be is one to make a two, to make a three, to make a four. So as, as the proud one that is standing up and as we're expanding these other cities, you know, I believe that some of those factors that were once working against us can actually be pivotal parts of our story that we tell with pride and say, nah, no limiting factors over here. We just didn't organize. And that is something that we we're learning how to do in Cleveland.

Josh, how are you guys able to make the connection so inexpensive for residents? Talk a little bit about that.

So how our network works, we have fiber optic cable that runs throughout the city of Cleveland. If you can look outside and maybe people are next to a radio tower, so lucky if you can just see a radio tower. If you're not next to one though, imagine a tall building. Uh, seven stories or greater. We will take the fiber that is running underground and it'll run up to that roof. And then at the top of that roof will put like an antenna and then that antenna sees the neighborhood. So as it's seeing the neighborhood, we are beaming signals. And then we'll put a box inside of a home. It's called our cluster and premise equipment. And we will then run a wire into the home and it'll have a standard router just like you would have with any, any other internet provider. What makes ours more inexpensive is we're not, uh, deploying fiber. We're, we're taking advantage of power that's already there. So it's like, okay, no deployment there. We're not running or, or digging up something underneath your yard. We're not running something Aly like, uh, putting lines from a power line to your house. We're not doing any of that. And so the fact that we just have a ladder, we mount something inside your home, wire in, that's it. And I think that's the part where as we're approving out the viability of this model, it allows for us to think about American investment from an efficiency standpoint, that it's more efficient for us to do it this way than for us to try and run fiber to every single spot with. Limited funding, and that's becoming more limited by the day that it's like, no, let's think smarter. And so where I will give credit to the current presidential administration is the fact that you have Elon's proximity to Trump, which many people will push back on in the one instance where we're not totally mad at it is in the telecom instance because he has starlink. And while we're not starlink, while we do not, they use a completely different technology. We use what's called Next generation fixed wireless access. Mm-hmm. Uh, Trump or Elon uses low earth satellites, and so he is using satellite internet from space beaming down when it comes to this discussion. Now though, historically in America, we were cable. So everyone had cable. So it was like cable, DSL, copper, whatever you had cabling. We are not cable. So you have the cable ones, then you have the fixed wireless ones, then you have the satellite one. The fact that I can sit here today and give you three different examples of things that are then being pushed within those three different examples. You have companies who exist in all of those. And so what we're doing now is we're expanding the way that America thinks about telecom. And I think that is a redeeming factor about this administration because it gives our case much more legs to stand on and say, Hey, if you're willing to look in a satellite, you better look into us too. And so that's where I'm like, we're, we don't have a seat at the table, but absolutely we can look in the room and be like, they're gonna have a seat for us eventually. They don't got one for us today, but I see where they're making space for us.

In a ymax model, uh, the only dependency is that you have to have a population or, or a dense kind of center. And so it can only go so far when you're bouncing signal off. Signal, off signal. One of the things that I read about you were doing, and this gives an opportunity to educate, uh, Tony to what I've been educated on is your 100. 100, right?

Yeah.

And so any idea of somebody like him who owns a studio. And has to upload. I give our audience a taste of the difference between the upload and the download and why you're able to do a hundred, a hundred and what the standards are.

Oh man. Beautiful question. God man. I love y'all. Uh, alright, so like, y'all like for real, like, okay, so the upload speeds, I'm gonna give you an example during the pandemic. Mm-hmm. So during the pandemic, you had people who were like, man, we got these work from home calls. My kids are at home and like my wife is in this other room. And whenever we go on these video calls, it's just buffering the whole time. I can't even connect and it's so slow, but I'm getting a, I'm getting gigabit speed internet. What's going on? It's like, ha. What you're getting is gigabit speed download. Once again, a lot of these internet providers, especially the big ones, they are content companies. So they want you to download content that they're putting out. So they want you to consume, they don't really want you to produce 'cause why would you produce? 'cause now you're competing against me. They don't want you to compete with them. They, they want to, you, you should be watching our content. So your download speeds has historically been much greater than your upload speeds have been much lower. Um, the upload is, again, when you are uploading content to the web, you're uploading a YouTube video, you're doing a video call because now our internet, like it's work right now, we are all using our upload speeds, correct? We're not really download speed here. And so the fact of the matter is if you want to be a consumer, then you're gonna focus on the download. But if you wanna be a producer, you're gonna focus on the upload. And so 100, 100, the standard that we set, and that is $18 a month, 100, 100. We do offer 200 over 100. We do offer other plans, but that 100 101 was significant because in Cleveland, no one else wanted to provide 100 symmetrical. And that when we say symmetrical, obviously a hundred hundred. No one else wanted to provide that. They wanted to do. Well, we can do 100 over 20. We could do, you know, a hundred over 10, but the reason why they wouldn't want to do 100 over 100, because why would we want to empower a producer? I'm okay with empowering a consumer, but I don't wanna empower a producer. We want to, because we see Cleveland as like, no, this is the opportunity for any content creator, for any podcast producer, for anybody to say, you know what, there are no more limiting factors. We, we, we remove them. So now it's all on you. It's all on your drive. That's, that's the, the, the power of an upload speed, because now it forces you to say, I know what I'm eating, but what am I producing? Right. Right. If there's no question to that, then well, there's an opportunity to start.

Let me, you know, I, I, I wanna, one of the things that I've been thinking about, you know, that's troubling me. You know, there's obviously, there's poverty, there's digital redlining. There's infrastructure that's not built. There's money from the federal government that wasn't, you know, uh, allocated. Right. Um, so you, you walked us through a lot of the issues that are outside of the people of Cleveland or any place, their control. But the one thing that's in their control and specifically to, to black people is the ignorance of the importance of being connected. And also the part about I don't trust. Right. So I'm not gonna do it, which is self-inflicted, to be fair. Okay. To be fair. Right. And at the end of the day. You are cutting your own nose off. You are, you are, you are limiting, not just you, but your kids and the whole. So how do you ch, and I know you said knock on door, but how do we change that mindset? Because if that mindset has changed, then to your point, you have a whole community that's out screaming, saying, we need this, we do this. And by doing that, you're gonna have people say, oh, you know what? We're gonna have to make something happen. Or more importantly, it makes your job a lot easier because now you have your constituents behind you.

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Which can help hopefully get funding. So how do we change that mindset? My brother?

Hmm. You know, incredible question that I think that we're still hypothesizing and we've made headway in progress into answering elements of that question because really it's diversifying the value of technology beyond what we thought. So we would say, for example, home internet is so important, you need it. Okay, sure. But that wouldn't land. But what we did see is that we would have residents who actually like, cared about drones and wanting to fly drones. Their kids, their kids would be obsessed with drones. And so it's like, okay, if the drone is like the entry point to this discussion, then fine. Right. Um, you know, I, I, I get it. This is more of a more, more polished, but I will say what's also true too, we have some of our, especially some of the older men, like. Adult content is what they want. Right? Right. We tell them how to like, okay, this is what it is, and man, you, you, you made, that's the motivator.

That's

the motivator, right? Someone was like, man, this, but that. Now it's meeting people where they are. Right. What I found in this administration that we get to do much more is like we can step off like this high horse of like where we need, where we would like to see our community, where meet people where they are. If you wanna watch that stuff, then here, then fine. You need internet connection. Rather than me saying like, you know, for jobs and for what, it's not landing. Like at some point, look, as much as we would love for it to be, let's meet people where they are, but also understand that people grow and they change over time. Where I started is not where I'm going to finish, and so you might start with just your understanding of the internet is just Instagram or Facebook, but we're not gonna leave you there. But I think the thing is we have to index un value in meeting people where they are. And so that's just because they have a hyper kid who just cares about drones. Cool. The best one. And, and I, I was one of these people growing up in the house where video games really blew up and you know, I was told Get off that game. Get off that game. Get off the game. And now we see the growth in eSports worth trillions of dollars. Now, now all of a sudden, now get on that game. Come on. Right. You

make some money at it.

Mm-hmm. And I think it's more of an exposure thing. What I've seen in our community is that the minute we understand the value of something, the value, that's when we will latch onto that. And, and if someone would counter me, I would say we saw the value of a basketball and, and once we saw that value, we saw the value in music and rhyming. We see that. So now we don't have to talk, but it's like with internet, what we've done wrong is we've overindexed on the internet itself and we haven't indexed much more on the enabling on what this can do, how this can bring you generational wealth, how you can turn your trajectories around, like those are the things that we have to keep reinforcing. The problem is we have competing factors. If I were to do a crime right now to someone, I were to punch someone outside, someone could call 9 1 1 and presumably I'd be arrested or dealt with whatever. But when someone does a cyber crime to someone, a Digital Crime. Who do you call? How does that happen? There, there are people who are not being protected when tax season rolls around in elections. Those are big time for fraud. Mm-hmm. This people just get, man, they, they eat 'em alive. They almost can tell this. That's a new internet user. It,

hold on, I gotta say this, it reminds me, um, 'cause you know, I'm, I'm from Detroit and, and you said you worked there, uh, for the mayor. Uh, was it Dugan you worked with or it was Dugan. Right. So, but back to your, your your point. I remember this was years ago, my man when, um, you know, people would, uh, have dogs, right. To protect their property, right? Mm-hmm. And, um. And so they had this com and they were trying to get people to get, uh, security systems right? But people, I don't need that. So they had this commercial, to your point where the commercial comes on, the dog dog is barking, right? Roro in the house, and then these dudes break in, they roll up the carpet, they take the couch, and then on the way out the door, they said, Hey man, I get the dog. So they took the dog too. So to your point about, oh, we can smell a new internet user. Mm-hmm. We gonna go after them. That's why I started laughing because it reminded me of that.

Well, they, and they, they, they know. And it's so, it's so sad because it's one demographic that gets scammed the most. Correct, correct. Anyone who's over 65, I'm like, man, I'm gonna pray for you. Mm-hmm. And I'm also gonna pray for their grandkids. I'm gonna pray for their, their, their children, because they're the ones who have to be their tech support.

But here's the thing though. Had they, I bet you those numbers go down drastically If they became, if they became engaged with it. Yeah. More often, right? Yeah. And then they started learning it and this and that, those numbers come down like this. Would you agree with that or what?

Uh, well, absolute Well, I, I agree and I think that it's happening because during the pandemic when all those churches went online, correct. You then had to have people who, well, all right, you're gonna miss out on pastor, you're not gonna see 'em. Then, then, then they had to figure it out and they started plugging in. Yeah. Even if you all remember restaurants. Restaurants stop with giving out the menu. They just put a QR code on the table. That's right. So it's like these things are forcing people, and I'm like, all right. Forcing might not be the best way to do it, but it's happening. I mean, we need, but it's

coring at least, at least corralling people towards. That's right. Well, next way. Well,

I think it's, see what you just gotta finish saying too, which is a great point. I didn't even think about that. It's meeting people where they're at. Okay. Mm-hmm. So being able to watch the pastor, I didn't wanna do this, but you know, I don't wanna Ms. Church, so I'll do it all right. Yeah. And I think to your point, that's, I didn't even think of that before. That's an excellent point, right? When you meet people where they're at, at least they get their foot in the door. And then once they getting their foot in the door, hopefully they expand from there.

That's right. And that, that's the point where I would say we didn't get that luxury in cities. That didn't happen. It was just, Hey, we rolled this out too, too poor. Skip 'em. Like, but when did I, when did I actually have an opportunity? To play around with this incredibly disruptive thing and treat it like Legos. Just, lemme, lemme just curious. I'm just curious. Lemme just play, lemme just see what this is. Instead, what it is, is I log on and here I'm thinking I'm being genuine and I'm Miss Barbara 63 and scammers like, 'cause they, they, they know what that is and they know her password is password, like mm-hmm. It's, those are the things where it's like, man, these people didn't even have a chance. And so as a result of that, we've created this weird thing where this digital divide, and there's a messy part in the middle of it where people who know how to be connected, they know what they need to do, but they just don't have any type of trust that's built up in this. And it's hard for us to then tell them yes, because unless we're, we're willing to provide them 24 7 tech support for which we don't have the funding to do that, then all of a sudden they're either off on their own or they're just dependent on their grandkid, their grandkids. And I think that's the. The next iteration of this digital divide of when you connect them, you gotta keep them connected. And that means protecting them online and giving them an, in a, a digital experience that, you know, it's not buffering every two seconds. It's not kicking you off the network. Like give them an experience that they can build off of that can look at fondly and say, you know what, no, no, y'all need to be doing this because this is what I was able to do. Like, make them messengers. And thus far, like within our space, we've been able to do that significantly. I mean, we, we will teach digital literacy, digital skilling classes and have Motown in the background. We make it enjoyable because it's like, no, we, we know what that music does. And like, we'll, we'll do that in a way where not only meet, we meet people where they are. We'll have some, some, some hot food for them. We, when they come in. So it's like, okay, like let's remove these barriers. 'cause we know when you're trying to learn things, you're hungry. It doesn't work. So the beauty about the digital divide is that it actually makes us remember the things that make us human. And it's like basic food and music actually goes a long way if you wanna teach technology and let us not be over-indexing on the importance of technology and losing sight of the things that just humans, like when you make it more enjoyable that way, it's enjoyable for everybody.

You, you talked about already getting a chance to get into the youth movement based on, uh, access through the schooling system and that was something you seem to be very proud of, very excited about. And as much as this is a youthful thing for you to usher the next generation into more knowledge about connectivity and diminishing the digital divide, uh, it's also seeming to me from you to be a national thing, not just the Cleveland thing. Are you prepared to take up the mantle when another city in Ohio or another city in New York or another city in Florida says, Hey, I'd like to do something similar. And I would love for you, since you've had the blueprint and kicked over the rocks and stubbed your toe a couple times, is that something that you guys are insulating and preparing yourselves for? Or is it just Right now we trying to get our thing to be our thing and that's way down the line. Because as we know with technology, it's fast as hell to say,

you know, well, well man, we're, we're ready. We're ready. Okay. You know, if you can, and this is a phrase that we say in Cleveland, if you can do it in Cleveland, you can do it anywhere. Okay. We cool. And the thing about Cleveland, and we don't say that because Cleveland is so bad. We say that because the historic skepticism, we say that even from a technology standpoint, we got all these trees throughout the city. I mean, it's a, we call it a forest city because there's so many trees here. And if we're trying to do wireless for trees. So as we've been able to model this, we had to laugh at it. And I, I, I remember a prayer I said, man, God, you really prepared. Me and you prepared this company to be able to expand because you made sure it was gonna be the hardest at the onset. It has not been easy here. Like I, I smile because I have a smiley disposition, but for real, like, no, it was, it's been very, very difficult. But through all those difficulties, we figured out the things that we never would've figured out and we would've been crushed if we would've expanded too early. I believe what we've been able to learn now and how we've been able to scale this and earn those subscribers, oh yeah, now, now I'm absolutely confident. We got a, we have a phenomenal team. We legitimately have the processes in procedures in place where I can treat another city like a neighborhood now, whereas before it would've been a whole other thing. Now it's like, no, that's just, that's just Northwest Cleveland. That just what happens to be, you know, a little bit further away, man. Northwest Cleveland.

So my friend buddy, this has been great. Final thoughts, man. Where do you wanna leave the audience? My brother?

Uh, I, I would tell people that during this time, uh, especially during this administration, uh, the presidential one, uh, there's a lot of stuff that just does not make sense. It does not make sense. The digital divide, I would say, is our greatest opportunity to be able to not only secure investment, but be able to make the case for it. When we be, when we look at it, we're gonna be the, some of the most impacted people, but therein lies the opportunity. AI has grown dramatically, and the near future quantum computing is going to be a term that we all will be using pretty soon, and it all starts and ends with an internet connection. And so check on your people, check on, check on anyone over 65, check on them, but not even just them. People have kids check on them because the first bill that goes is your internet bill when things get rough. And if you are going to. At any point, pause someone's growth and development with technology. Just understand that from a global standpoint, America, every year we fall in our rankings of connected people. So if black people and brown people were able to take this, this conversation seriously, I'll tell you, please, please, please make sure you are investing in the technology and not in just, not just for you, but for your tribe and your family that we're able to move forward. Because if you're able to do that, you will write the trajectory of a generation, because it only takes one of us to get it right.

Good business, good business. Let me ask you this before we, uh, move on. How could A Black Executive Perspective podcast help you?

Man, you already did. Um, I, I, I, one, I, I would just say like, you know, let's, I, I would love to. I would love to do more with you all with respect to even just more storytelling. Um, we'd love, heck, even if we found one of our residents, like, or one of our customers, like, let, we'd love to do something like that. Um, I know those are specifics, but the bigger bucket is like as we're meeting and engaging with some of our big tech partners, uh, Microsoft has been a big supporter of ours. We actually just did a, um, a documentary, uh, release with them, um, for things like that and anything like that. I would love for BEP and Digital C where we have a relationship where we can share and amplify because I don't want anyone to feel like, man, when the minute a Google or Facebook or Microsoft approaches them that they gotta figure out, it's like, no, we, we've already shown you. This is how you do it. This is how you navigate that partnership successfully. And this is how you get the replicable, uh, cyclical investment. And so I think that there's just a lot of gems that, that we're acquiring in the work that we do. And I believe that this is just a really great platform with respect to the viewers. You have what you all stand for and empowering black executives to, to really kill it. I think that this is a, that would be a really great opportunity. So, I don't know, I mean, just helping us tell our story better as these wins come.

Where do we find the documentary? Is it already produced

that It is, it is already produced. Uh, I believe it's actually on our website, www.Digital C.org. It's also on our YouTube. Um, and it's also links on our social media, so on our Instagram Digital C org. Okay,

buddy. So consider it done, my brother. So we'll, we'll chat offline. We're gonna make something happen, right? Number one. I'm so impressed with you, my man, and I'm, and I can speak for Chris too, what you're doing. Is, it is just, it's no words for it, man. You are, you are, you've taken a big, um, bolder and you're moving it down a hill and it's only gonna, you're gonna get more momentum. But for what you're doing and how you're changing lives and helping, you know, people, even with their skepticism, even with their fear, right? You're keeping them in the 21st century to be fair, okay? That's what you're doing, right? So I'm a big fan and whatever we can do to support you, help you. It's done, my brother. So count as it.

Absolutely, man. Look, I, this is beautiful. I appreciate y'all. I appreciate and thank you. Shout out to cold m for making this connection.

Absolutely, bro. That's what we do, right? That's what we do. So my brother. Josh Edmonds, CEO of Digital C. We want to thank him for being on A Black Executive Perspective podcast. So now I think it's time for Tony's Tidbit and the tidbit today. What good is technology, if it leaves the most vulnerable behind the future for digital equity is the fight for justice. Ensuring everyone has a voice in the digital age, and that we move forward together. And you heard a lot of that from our, our partner, our friend Joshua Edmonds, CEO of Digital C.

This has been a powerful, powerful episode and we, we absolutely enjoyed our guest here. We wanna remind you at this time we have other powerful content, you know, that you can tune into. So need to know with Nsenga, don't miss, need to Know with Nsenga, with Dr. Nsenga Burton on A Black Executive Perspective podcast where Dr. Burton dives into timely and crucial topics that also shape our community and our world tune in weekly. You absolutely do not wanna miss the sister. She is powerful.

Absolutely. And you don't wanna miss the next episode of Pull Up, Speak Up, where our round table gets together and talks about the most provocative issues, real talk, real perspectives. You don't wanna miss it. This is not just an episode, it's a revolution. So check out, Pull Up, Speak Up. The next Pull Up, Speak Up here on A Black Executive Perspective Podcast. Yeah.

And then as we close out, we always wanna remind you of the reason why we do this. Our goal is to eliminate all forms of discrimination. And to achieve this, we ask everyone to embrace LESS. And so we start off with the first L for learn. Educate yourself on racial and cultural nuances. We learned today. Ab, I learned about uploading down those speeds and learned about, you know, how we are headed towards a census that's gonna be completely online. Therefore we're not gonna be counted, which is gonna encourage the voting and all these, it is gonna cascade, as the brother said to different things. So that was a beautiful lesson for me today.

Absolutely. And then after you learn, you have the letter E, which stands for empathy. So you wanna understand diverse perspectives and put yourself in their shoes. And again, to, Josh was saying that poverty, there's a lot of people who cannot afford the internet, right? Not that they don't want it, but they can't afford afford it. So when I think it, I'm putting myself in their shoes and I understand where they're coming from.

The first S is for share, share your insights and enlighten others. And this is what his mission is all about. Connectivity, which is sharing. So make sure that you share this. Don't hide it, divide it.

Absolutely. And the final S stands for Stop. We wanna stop all forms of discrimination as it walks in our path. So if Uncle Joe or Auntie Jenny says something inappropriate at the Sunday dinner table, you say, uncle Joe, aunt Jenny, we don't believe that. We don't say that. And you stop it right there. So if everyone can incorporate less, LESS will build a more fair, more understanding world, and we'll see the change that we wanna see, because less will become more.

Thank you guys for tuning in. We definitely wanna make sure that you tune in for previous episodes, future episodes, go to the website, sign up for the newsletter. Leave us a review. Talk to us about what you learned here and what you'd like to learn in the future. Make sure you rate and subscribe wherever you have, uh, access to us. Make sure you like and thumbs up, Tony. Where can they find us,

my friend? You can find A Black Executive Perspective podcast on YouTube, apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. And you can follow us on our socials of LinkedIn, X, YouTube, Facebook, Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok at a black exec for our fabulous guest, the CEO of Digital C Joshua Edwin Edmonds. For the co-host with the most, my boy down in Dallas, Chris P. Reed I'm Tony Tidbit. We talked about it. We learned about it. We're still gonna strive about it and we're gonna thrive about it. We love you. And guess what? We're out

A Black Executive Perspective.