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You're depressed.

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You have found and learned the polyvagal
theory and you know the dorsal vagal

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shutdown is your dominant autonomic state.

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So you've started learning
about coming out of shutdown

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and even tried some stuff out.

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But nothing's changing.

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You're desperate,
frustrated, maybe pissed off.

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My name is Justin Sunseri.

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I'm a therapist, a coach, and the creator
of the Polyvagal Trauma Relief System.

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Welcome to Stuck Not Broken, where
I teach you how to live with more

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calm, confidence, and connection
without psychobabble or woo woo.

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And in this episode, I'll be discussing
what you're doing wrong and why

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you're still stuck in shutdown.

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Two disclaimers.

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Number one, this podcast is not
therapy, nor is it intended to

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be a replacement for therapy.

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Number two, if you sense a bit
of fight energy in my system,

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I am a little, a little miffed.

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The 49ers lost for the
second week in a row.

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And I am, uh, not feeling
very good about it.

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So, you might sense a bit of
frustration, disappointment, irritation,

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pissed offedness in my voice.

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The first thing to address is
the question, are you keeping

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yourself stuck in shut down?

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So I don't think that someone
gets stuck in shut down randomly.

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No one chooses to be in shutdown.

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It's a fairly unpleasant
state of affairs, right?

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So no one chooses to be in shutdown.

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And no one really chooses
to remain stuck either.

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Day to day, it's not a, you know, the
most wholesome or fulfilling existence.

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So no one chooses to be in shutdown
and no one chooses to stay in shutdown.

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In the first place you're likely in
shutdown due to things that you've

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been through in your life and most
likely I would bet generally is

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due to your upbringing, something
to do with your upbringing.

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Shutdown often comes from a chronic
disruption of connectedness, usually

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involving parents or parenting or lack
of parenting, parents that did not

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provide adequate or enough co regulation,
enough safety, enough predictability,

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enough love, and enough support.

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In my work with teens and also with
adults as a therapist, it seems like

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shutdown often, if not always, is
connected to some past issues with

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family, with upbringing, and with parents.

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That can look many different ways,
like outright abandonment or just

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generally not available emotionally
to connect with their children.

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But shutdown can also come from ongoing,
chronic, inescapable life circumstances.

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Things like poverty and neighborhood
conditions can contribute to shutdown.

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I don't necessarily think that poverty
equals shutdown, but I think it's in,

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it's a circumstance that contributes
to the potential for shutdown.

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And, you know, neighborhood safety
is another one of those things.

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Domestic violence, chronic disease.

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Illnesses, the death of a loved one,
especially if that person was your

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safe person, and a whole bunch more
stuff can contribute to Shutdown

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or to being in a shutdown state
and even a chronic shutdown state.

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I'm more thinking about the stuff from the
past, those circumstances that have left

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you, or left somebody stuck in a shutdown
state, like from family or from parenting.

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Not from the current life circumstances
that they're currently stuck in,

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or that you're currently stuck in.

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So to answer the first question,
did you cause your shutdown?

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No.

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But, can you do something about it?

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Yeah, you can.

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And this isn't about blame, I'm not trying
to say you're not doing good enough.

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I really hope this is more empowering.

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I hope this is more hopeful.

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Actually, I think the word empowerment
is a really, really good word for it.

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Because when you come out of your
shutdown state, the first thing you're

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likely to feel is your flight fight
activation, but more likely is your fight

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activation out of shutdown into fight.

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Then flight and then up into
safety up your polyvagal ladder.

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Empowering though, I think is a good
word for it because when we enter into

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that fight state from shutdown, we go up.

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We want that to be an
experience of empowerment.

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But that only happens when you have
enough safety in your system, when your

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ventral vagal safety pathways are strong
enough to handle that, that returning

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and even welcome that returning fight
energy, that sympathetic fight energy.

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So as of right now, you may not
have enough safety in your system.

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And again, it's not a
fault or a blame thing.

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It just might be the way it is.

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You may not have enough safety or those
vagal, ventral vagal pathways may not be

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developed enough or strengthened enough.

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So as you come out of shutdown
or as your body attempts to self

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regulate out of shutdown into fight,
it can be really overwhelming.

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We need that safety state to be
developed more to welcome the

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sympathetic activation of flight and
fight, especially a fight initially.

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So that's the first thing that you're
doing wrong, quote unquote doing wrong,

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is that your safety system is probably
just needs strengthening probably,

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I think it's a big part of this.

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And this is how I work in therapy
a lot or foundationally is do we

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have enough safety, do we have
enough ability to feel our defensive

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activation to come out of shutdown.

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So, you need to practice being
in safety before sitting with

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your shutdown experiences.

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That might be something
that you're doing wrong.

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You might be trying to process the
inner experiences of what it's like

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to be in shutdown, to be depressed,
to be alone, rejected, abandoned.

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You might be delving into the
stories of your upbringing,

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the stuff you've been through.

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If you're not ready for it, delving
into that stuff can be re traumatizing.

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Yeah, these things are super
important, and eventually it might

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be very important to talk about them.

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But, right now, today, and yesterday,
and the day before, you may not have been

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in a place or have your safety state be
strong enough to handle that discussion.

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As you discuss the past, as you think
about it, as you remember it, you're

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also going to feel it, and on some level
you're going to flat out re experience it.

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If you can't handle that, if your
safety state's not strong enough yet

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to welcome that with curiosity and
compassion, then it just reinforces

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the traumatized state of shutdown.

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The other thing you might be doing
is rejecting your shutdown state.

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And again, this, this stems from probably
not having enough safety in your system.

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If you don't have the love and the
compassion necessary to welcome

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shutdown, which only comes from your
safety state being strong enough, then

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you'll likely reject your shutdown.

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You need the safety state to
be more, more strengthened.

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As you come out of shutdown into
fight, You might use that energy

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to reject the experience, to blame
yourself or maybe somebody else,

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probably yourself, to shame yourself,
to be mean to yourself in some way.

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As we come out of shutdown into fight, we
want to use that sympathetic energy, that

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returning sympathetic energy to mobilize
and maybe be productive or motivated

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or just more physical in some way.

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We want to welcome it and use it.

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But, if you're unable to welcome it with
curiosity and compassion, then that's when

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we lean into those things like rejection
and blame and shame and negative thoughts.

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So instead of judging yourself for what
you have not accomplished in life, like

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maybe you've done that today or will
do that today, like I didn't do enough,

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I didn't do good enough at work, I
wasn't a good enough spouse, parent.

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Instead of focusing on that and
continually blaming yourself,

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maybe focus on the small things
that you can do from shutdown.

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I'm not saying like give yourself a pass.

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I think those thoughts of like, "I
didn't do good enough" can be valid

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because you do want more and that's okay.

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But I don't know how productive it is
and how helpful it is to bash yourself

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for those things day after day.

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So, instead of that, or if you could
do less of that and then increase

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your focus on those small things
that you actually can accomplish from

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shutdown, that might be more productive.

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Maybe there are small, achievable
things that you can do every day.

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Maybe there are small changes that
you can do in your routine that

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might involve a bit more mindfulness.

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Something like starting off your
mornings with more slow and more quiet.

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Maybe focusing on the external
world, the external environment.

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Connecting to it through
your senses every morning.

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Listening for safety inside of yourself.

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If you can set up some sort of small
routine in your day like that, that

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requires more mindfulness from your safety
and your shutdown state, that's probably

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going to be more productive than, you
know, using your fight energy to be mean

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to yourself or to use your shutdown lack
of energy to also be mean to yourself.

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The other thing you might be doing
is using behavioral adaptations

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instead of feeling your shutdown.

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Again, and from shutdown, we need to
eventually feel it from safety to allow

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shutdown and then to emerge out of it.

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From shutdown, you might be oversleeping,
that's kind of a behavioral adaptation.

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You don't have much energy in
shutdown, so it makes sense, but

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it's also not mindfully experiencing
shutdown because, well, you're asleep.

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When coming out of shutdown, you might
be doing other behavioral adaptations,

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like as that energy comes back in your
system, that fight energy, you might be

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numbing it through, uh, doomscrolling,
I guess it's called doomscrolling, where

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you're just kind of like, you can't
stop using your phone, I think that's

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what it means, I'm not quite sure what
it means in all honesty, I've heard a

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couple people use that recently, I'm not
quite sure what it means, but I think

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it means something like, you're just
constantly on social media or scrolling

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through stuff and you can't stop.

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But basically you're numbing your emotions
through using your phone, that's uh,

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something I think a lot of people do.

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Instead of feeling your shutdown,
feeling that returning fight energy,

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that mobilization, you're numbing it
through some sort of behavior like doom

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scrolling, or other sort of numbing
behaviors or addictions, or maybe, you

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know, being irritable and mean to others.

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But that's kind of the other thing
you might be doing wrong, is that

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you're not feeling the shutdown and
you're not mindfully experiencing it.

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Instead of that, we need to allow it.

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We need to allow it.

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Eventually.

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Eventually.

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We need to allow it.

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We need to feel it.

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Eventually.

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It might be too much right
now, and that's fine.

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But eventually, it does need to be felt.

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You need to embrace what it's like
to be in shutdown, and then that

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mindful experiencing of it gives your
body permission to come out of it.

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To allow shutdown, that's probably
going to look like being quiet and

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in calm and having lower stimulation.

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Probably.

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The way it looks for you might be
different than me, but that's generally

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what people are pulled towards.

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So if you don't, if you're truly in
a shutdown state and you don't give

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yourself that, then you're not giving
yourself the context, the environment

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to mindfully experience shutdown.

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And if you're not mindfully experiencing
it, then you're just staying in it.

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One way that you may not be feeling
your shutdown mindfully is through

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judging it instead of allowing it.

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You might be stuck in these negative
pessimistic thoughts and these are very

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common from a shutdown state is to be
very pessimistic or have negative types

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of thoughts to project future failure
and to dwell on yourself as a present

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moment failure and a past failure as well.

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You're judging your shutdown.

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You're not allowing it.

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When these thoughts come
up, I would recommend just

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notice them as best you can.

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Say hi to them maybe, uh, but
then focus on the present moment.

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Those thoughts are there because
story follows state, so it's,

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it's normal to have those types
of thoughts from Shutdown.

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I don't think it helps to, you know,
dogpile yourself and say how horrible you

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are to have those thoughts from Shutdown.

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Instead, say that, "yeah,
these are normal from Shutdown.

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I see them.

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Hello."

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As best you can.

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And then focus on the external
environment and try to reconnect

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with the external environment.

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Because the internal
might be too much, or...

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Too numb.

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So connecting with the external
environment might be more approachable.

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But yeah, it's very normal.

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We know story follows state.

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We know the thoughts of our mind
come from the state that we are in.

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So if you're stuck in a shutdown
state, your thoughts are

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going to be shut down as well.

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They're going to be
flavored by that state.

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And they're going to reinforce the state.

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So those pessimistic
thoughts make total sense.

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But they act as this top down cue of
danger that reinforces the shutdown.

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Again, I'm not trying to blame or, or,
you know, do my own dogpiling on, on

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top of what you're doing to yourself.

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I'm not, that's not the intention here.

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It's not about blame.

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But it is about, "what
can I do differently?

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What am I doing?"

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Although, of course, unintentionally.

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But yeah, "what am I doing" even
though it's unintentional "what am

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I doing and what can I control?"

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And maybe "what can I do differently?"

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and there's lots of things that
you can do differently two things

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are number one Listen to the
previous episode of this podcast.

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It goes deeper into the shutdown state
and number two is check out my total

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access membership You know that being
stuck shows up in many different ways, and

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from the shutdown state, it can present
itself in many different ways as well.

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Loneliness, depression,
dissociation, isolation, and more.

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And you already know that.

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But if you're ready to
take that next step...

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in your getting unstuck process, and you
don't want to spend a ton of money, then

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I invite you to consider subscribing to
Stuck Not Broken Total Access Membership.

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In Total Access, you will gain total
access to the knowledge that you need

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through my Polyvagal Trauma Relief System.

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You'll also have the option of
connecting with others and spending

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more time with me in the community.

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No, you don't have to, and especially
I know from People who are in shutdown

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that they don't want to connect,
you know, potentially usually often.

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And the idea of connecting with
other people, even in an online

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community is too much for them.

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So no, you don't have to.

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But you can, if you want to.

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Actually the majority of people that
joined my community, they just kind of

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want to do the courses on their own.

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And that's fine.

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I have a core group that is
really active in the community.

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I think they're fantastic.

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So you are welcome to join and
to contribute in any way that

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feels comfortable for you, or
just take the courses and do

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your own thing at your own pace.

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There's also a whole bunch of other
stuff in the total access membership

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that you get as well to, to go
deeper in your unstucking process.

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And, you know, I actually
have a nifty gifty for you

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for listening to this episode.

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I updated my Polyvagal One Pagers.

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This is like 20 pages, I think 19 20 pages
of the Polyvagal Theory Fundamentals.

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And they're super easy to print
out and hand out if you want to.

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But it has information on all the
Polyvagal Fundamentals, like the primary

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states, the mixed states, behavioral
adaptations, bagel break, and more.

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And I just updated it with all of
the new stuff from the new book,

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including the new mixed dates.

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Uh, those are in there now as well.

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So those are updated and I also updated,
well, I updated a whole bunch of stuff.

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So the way you can get access to
that is by joining my free membership

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on my website, which is different
than stuck, not broken total access.

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That's a paid community.

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On my website, JustinLMFT.Com,
I have a free membership.

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It's like a website membership.

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Sign up for that and you get all of
my resources as well as my learning

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00:16:27,995 --> 00:16:32,555
hubs, which has all of my, well,
learning gathered into hubs, you

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know, like the polyvagal states,
like more stuff on shutdown, but

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also I think I have a parenting hub,
relationships hub and a bunch of others.

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So just from signing up for free
on my website, you get access

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to the member center with the
learning hubs and the downloads.

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Otherwise, fellow Stucknaut, I really hope
this episode has been a helpful resource

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for you in learning about and applying the
Polyvagal Theory to your trauma relief.

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Again, it's not about blame, but I think
it is helpful to say, this is what I'm

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doing and this is what I can do about it.

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Bye.

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This podcast is not therapy,
not intended to be therapy or

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be a replacement for therapy.

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Nothing in this creates or indicates
a therapeutic relationship.

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Please consult with your therapist or
seek for one in your area if you are

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experiencing mental health symptoms.

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Nothing in this podcast should be
construed to be specific life advice.

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It is for educational and
entertainment purposes only.

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More resources are available in
the description of this episode

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and in the footer of justinlmft.

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com.