Nina Endrst  00:04: Hi, I'm Nina Endrst.

Anna Toonk  00:05: I'm Anna Toonk.

Nina Endrst  00:06: Welcome to How To Be Human.

Anna Toonk  00:08: A podcast that explores the common and often confusing themes of humaneness.

Nina Endrst  00:12: In this episode, Anna and I discuss intuition.

Anna Toonk 00:15: Take a seat, clear your mind and let's chat.

Nina Endrst  00:22: Good afternoon. Let's just start with a laugh, shall we? Maybe we'll be the only ones chuckling, but that's okay.

Anna Toonk  00:34: Have a little giggle. A little giggle on us.

Nina Endrst  00:37: How are you?

Anna Toonk  00:38: I'm good. You know, it's a Monday that we're recording. This is the first one we're recording I think since the podcast has been released, and I just wanted to take a second and say, thank you. Like, a lot of you have listened. Kind of crazy. And a lot of you have DMed me and told me your personal stories in a way that has really touched my heart. And you know, I share it with Nina. I don't share your business. But I tell you like this comment came through, you know, so thank you were so, so, so appreciative that it's connecting with you. Thank you.

Nina Endrst  01:17: We're so excited to just finally release it.

Anna Toonk  01:21: I don't know about you, I forgot people were gonna listen.

Nina Endrst  01:23: Me too. I also just didn't want to think about it.

Anna Toonk  01:26: True.

Nina Endrst  01:27: And I still don't, you know, because, I mean, I really hope it resonates and continues to and that's obviously why we started it, not just to hear ourselves talk in microphones, although it is indeed fun.

Anna Toonk  01:40: We like it.

Nina Endrst  01:40: But I wanted it to be, you know, just kind of natural. And when I saw that a lot of people were listening, I was like, wow, this feels so good.

Anna Toonk  01:50: Yeah.

Nina Endrst  01:50: So, so appreciative. And really just humbling that anybody wants to listen to us talk for that amount of time. So thank you for that.

Anna Toonk  01:59: Yeah, thank you. Thank you.

Nina Endrst  02:01: It feels good.

Anna Toonk  02:02: Yeah, thank you. It does feel good. I was about to say something. And I can't say it without using like, spa voice. But like, it feels healing. Thank you for participating in our healing. No, I'm kidding.

Nina Endrst  02:15: Like the commercial with like the Swedish blonde lady.

Anna Toonk  02:19: Exactly, yes.

Nina Endrst  02:20: It has to be.

Anna Toonk  02:22: We appreciate your time. We know that we're competing with a lot of stuff, your life, you know, other things you want to listen to. So it means a lot to us. We're not too cool to really appreciate that you give us your time.

Nina Endrst  02:35: No, high fives for everyone.

Anna Toonk  02:37: Yeah, high fives for everybody. And a lot of you who had some really insightful things to say. And something I thought was really interesting is someone was like, wow, I didn't expect to listen to such a deep conversation that also felt really easy to digest. And yeah, that's kind of the goal. So if there's other things you want to hear about, like, hopefully, you'll listen to the end, and then we'll tell you how you can submit ideas, but you can also just go to our website, thesoulunity.com, and if you want to talk about a particular topic or whatever, submit it.

Nina Endrst  03:07: Yeah, we will probably do it.

Anna Toonk  03:10: Yeah, we will.

Nina Endrst  03:10: Unless it's something like super, super, you know, uncomfortable. But, I'm an open book. So are you.

Anna Toonk  03:17: Yeah.

Nina Endrst  03:18: Are we gonna do an episode about sex one time?

Anna Toonk  03:21: I mean, I'd be fine with that. You're the self-identified prude.

Nina Endrst  03:27: I know, prude, prude. I mean, not in the sheets, you know what I mean?

Anna Toonk  03:32: Well, you're an Aries. So yeah, we knew. She just keeps her, you know, her business on lock.

Nina Endrst  03:39: Yeah, we will probably. But today we're not talking about sex. Today we're talking about intuition.

Anna Toonk  03:44: Intuition, defined as the ability to understand something immediately, without the need for conscious reasoning. A thing that one knows or considers likely from instinctive feeling, rather than conscious reasoning. And then, something I wanted to add when I was trying to find my definition, which I also promptly lost, apparently, is this Albert Einstein quote. Because something that was coming up a lot, like, when I was just, you know, doing a little Googs, because obviously, you and I, I think, know a lot about intuition.

Nina Endrst  04:22: I mean, we should.

Anna Toonk  04:23: We should. It would be upsetting if we were like, so what is it? But I found a lot of material around both Einstein and Steve Jobs, which I thought was really interesting. And Steve Jobs like really counted his intuition paired with intellect as like his superpowers. But he was like, I think intuition is one of the most untapped resources in business today.

Nina Endrst  04:48: Agreed.

Anna Toonk  04:48: Which I thought was fascinating. And I agree as well. And there are people who I think are looked to as like these, I don't know, bastions of like, intellectual and reasoning and science and things like that that I think that people don't think intuition exists in. And Einstein had a good quote about like, you know, his process was like, I intuitively feel something. But then I do experiments to either confirm or deny it, you know, like, but it begins with my intuition. But also he said, the intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.

Nina Endrst  05:27: Wow, that's a good one.

Anna Toonk  05:29: That's a good one, right? Yeah. At first, when I was like, I want to do like, I want to read a poem, or I'm gonna do this quote, Nina was like, all right, like, this is partnership, you know? And then now she's like, oh, okay.

Nina Endrst  05:44: Well, a couple lines is different than, there once was a rose, and then like all of the sudden, an English poem that goes on for like three pages, and you're like, what the fuck are you talking about?

Anna Toonk  05:54: The sun sets.

Nina Endrst  05:56: Another day. You're like, oh shit, we're back.

Anna Toonk  06:00: We have to do it at like, two times the speed. But I'm curious, I didn't, I mean, I had heard about intuition, obviously, like, I define intuition as something you believe to be true without fact or outside fact or outside confirmation. But I don't think I used, like, it was a huge thing for me to claim myself as being intuitive. And that was probably 10 years ago. I'm curious, when did you realize you were intuitive?

Nina Endrst  06:38: So, same. When I started calling it that was about, like, 10 years ago, actually, the same. But I always knew I was in tune.

Anna Toonk  06:50: Yeah, same.

Nina Endrst  06:51: So I would call it that, or I would just like know, I was really emotionally connected. And I could feel things and I knew things. And I knew when something was off, or I could feel someone's feelings, which isn't sometimes, which still you gotta be careful about that. So I always knew it was that but to say, I'm intuitive, or I'm an intuitive was like, yeah, a 10 year ago thing. And I don't remember what the switch was, because right now, it's so kind of mainstream. I mean, not like fully, but it's pretty mainstream, the conversation around it, right? Wouldn't you agree?

Anna Toonk  07:30: Yeah, I think it's changed. Even, I mean, it's changed so much, even in the past 10 years, you know, like, it's wild. You know, I would say, I don't, like whatever the stage is like before mainstream. I think it's there maybe. Where, you know, it's like, not weird, you know, but I remember I went for a tarot reading with Lindsey Mac, I believe, who was my Tarot mentor, and she said, until you accept and make sense of the intuitive part of yourself, you'll never make sense to yourself. And I was like, huh, that's weird. Because it made me look at what that resistance was, like, why wasn't I claiming it? At that point, I like pretty much knew I was and I knew I was good at feelings. I knew I could kind of sense maybe what someone else was feeling. Like, I knew that I felt really like maybe porous in a way.

Nina Endrst  08:31: I use that word all the time and I love that.

Anna Toonk  08:32: I think that's maybe why I use it. I think I've heard you say and thought oh, that's a good one. And all that and I was like, Yeah, what is that resistance? Why don't I claim it? And I learned a lot as I started learning Tarot as this way I think for me, like my intuition felt really wild and unpredictable. Like sometimes, like I always knew when someone was pregnant. I just would know. I'd be like, they're pregnant. You know, and I was like, I have no idea how I know that, you know, but I just would. So it felt like that's really unpredictable thing that like maybe I would get insight, maybe I wouldn't. You know, like I just never knew. So I think that was a little bit of an obstacle in trusting it.

Anna Toonk  09:11: And then when I started learning Tarot, I was like, oh, here's this way to sort of make sense of it and almost like conduct a science experiment of like, I think this is kind of how I'm feeling or I think this is what's kind of going on, let me pull a card. Oh, interesting. You know, like, seeing where did it match, where did it disconnect? You know, like that sort of stuff. But also like when I started, you know, because I always tell people this when they're like learning Tarot, and they're like, No, no, I don't want to read for anyone else. I'm never gonna want to read for anyone else. And I'm like, you think that, but you will get bored with yourself. And you'll want to read for people. Also, people are gonna want you to read for them.

Nina Endrst  09:49: Also, don't you think reading for yourself is not always the most reliable thing?

Anna Toonk  09:54: Yeah, because you don't have objectivity. And really to be the most powerful I think as a reader or any kind have like psychic arts, you need objectivity. You know, so it's so easy. It's like anything, you know, like, I can look at your life and be like, do this, do that, you know, because I'm not in it. So I also just think it's boring like, I'm me all day, you know, like, I love the chance to be like, yeah, let's rap about it with someone else about their shit, you know? But it takes confidence. It takes something at that point, I hadn't really activated with myself. Like my intuition was like, popping off. I needed to learn different boundaries around it, actually. But what the piece that I had to really grapple and like, learn what to do with, was the fear around like, Who am I to say this?

Anna Toonk  10:40: You know, like, that, really, it really bumped up against my like, wanting to be right. I mean, not wanting to disappoint people, all this stuff, because intuition, I mean, it's not the definition, but I really equate intuition, too, with truth, you know? And it can be a little kooky when you're dealing with that. People don't always like the truth. I don't always like the truth of myself, you know? So I think it was like all this different stuff that like sometimes when people I think are doubting of intuition are struggling with intuition. I don't know that that's what they're struggling with. I think they're struggling with all this stuff that you really have to figure out your relationship with, for your intuition to flow freely. Like anxiety is a big one.

Nina Endrst  11:34: The truth, the anxiety, what I find stopped me for a while and stops a lot of people in their tracks that I work with, you know, at some point is the knowing, which is also intuition that you will then have to do something with that information.

Anna Toonk  11:53: Oh, that is a good one, yes. Yeah, ugh God.

Nina Endrst  12:01: Felt it in her body.

Anna Toonk  12:03: Felt it. Because I feel it personally because, yes, it took me back. And I was like, Oh, no, I need to do a lot of cleanup in my life if I'm going to do this whole listen to myself shit, you know.

Nina Endrst  12:14: Yeah. So for a long time, it was, Yeah, I have big feelings. Yeah, I understand what other people feel. Yeah, I can like, yeah, I'm a great listener, like people always tell me their shit, strangers on the street like that, you know? And then it was, so what are you going to do with all of that? That was my question to myself, right? And I think truth is uncomfortable. It can be absolutely freeing, but it can be really uncomfortable, most of the time, to uncover something that you know, has been buried or is just lurking, but you know, you're not ready to kind of look at. And once I did that, once I started to do that I should say, I mean, my life actually started to change.

Anna Toonk  13:05: Big time, big time. Same. I always say Tarot exploded my life, because it did. I mean, it really, it was like, it was unreal what it did. I was on one path. And then I got completely taken on another. But like, I mean, I say Tarot, but I think really, it was like, choosing intuition as my North Star like that really is what exploded my life. And for the better. I mean, it's not always easy. And that journey wasn't easy. But I felt so at home in myself, because even if I wasn't always ready to take action, or do something, and that's something I often like, will offer a client, I'll be like, this is the decision sort of on the table. You know, and just for your intuition to not get quieter, you have to acknowledge that that's the decision. You don't have to make it, which is a different thing, you know? And I think for me, it just like, it almost felt like it changed me like, on a cellular level. Like I don't, I don't know how to articulate it,

Nina Endrst  14:11: I think that's a perfect way to articulate it. I mean, it does. I agree with that.

Anna Toonk  14:15: I think it's really aligning with like, one of the like, deepest versions of yourself. And that's scary. I mean, and we run from that in a lot of different ways. And I'm not unsympathetic to that. But it can be interesting. I don't know if you've had this experience with clients too, or in workshops or things like that, where people are like, I really want to work on my intuitive development. Then you're like, Yeah, let's do it. It's exciting, you know, and they're like, I want to work on my intuitive development, but I will not leave with this terrible person I'm with that I hate. I'm unwilling to leave my job because I hate it. And I da-da-da-da and you're like cool.

Nina Endrst  14:51: But you want to go searching for spirit guides and

Anna Toonk  14:56: You want to go in and you want to listen, but you're not listening from the calls inside asking for help.

Nina Endrst  15:02: Right. And, I mean, we're not making fun of anybody. Like, it's just kind of, I think–

Anna Toonk  15:06: I know. I've been that person. I mean, I'm more trying to say I've been there with you. What is it about us? I'm curious, to you, what do you think it is about us that sends that mixed message of I want to go in I want to activate my intuition. I think it's also something like you know, women are intuitive, you know, it's something also gendered and put on us.

Nina Endrst  15:06: Oh, I have so many things to say, but finish your question.

Anna Toonk  15:30: I'm like I'm not even sure what my question is. I'm curious what you think that dance is we do have navigating that of like, I don't want anything to change, but I want this deeper knowledge of myself. But okay, let's start there. And then I actually have another question for you.

Nina Endrst  15:43: Okay, good. So the first one, a couple of things popped into my sphere. Our teachers, and then you said something about like being a woman and how that's put on you often. So number one is like how most of us are conditioned in like a traditional sense we're around people who I don't believe the majority of our like, walking the walk that they're talking right?

Anna Toonk  16:12: How dare you?

Nina Endrst  16:14: Right. This is a hot take, Anna.

Anna Toonk  16:18: Such controversy in episode six.

Nina Endrst  16:20: Everybody sit the fuck down. This is gonna get real.

Anna Toonk  16:26: School's in session, bitches.

Nina Endrst  16:29: So think back to your like, first grade teacher, right? I think everybody's full of shit.

Anna Toonk  16:34: Yeah.

Nina Endrst  16:35: You know, so many people are full of shit. There's so much like red tape and in like a school system. Or if you're in a religious institution, or your parents are like, Well, why mom? Well, because I said so. I mean, just from every angle, it seems like a lot of people saying things, but not listening to themselves. So I don't think a lot of people are believable. And I feel like when we're children, we're so connected to our intuition, just like so connected, most of us, if we're not in like, highly volatile situations, hopefully. I think it can thrive a bit, you know? Or we're coloring, or even if kids are in terrible situations, I think they use it as an outlet in some way, shape or form, right?

Anna Toonk  17:20: Well, it could actually, because of trauma, it can be more finely honed, because it's a way you can stay safe. You're trying to intuit like who's safe, who isn't, and you know, protect yourself. So yeah, it can express that way, too.

Nina Endrst  17:33: Which is, that, though, is so gray, as well, because then what do you do with that, right? So if you learn that and you're like, I know this person's not safe, but I have to go to them or I'm not able to leave, then eventually you start to like, shut those things down or put them in places because you don't have the choice to actually follow through, right?

Anna Toonk  17:55: Yeah.

Nina Endrst  17:56: So to answer your first question, I feel like it's a couple of things. I think it's a lack of bravery that we encourage in kids and as a relates to intuition. There's just so much like you must follow the rules, you must fall in line, you must not be different. And I think there's so much just fear around– now that word is just sort of tainted to me–but there's just so much fear around being ourselves and expansive and taking these risks because it gets us in trouble sometimes, you know? And who wants to get in trouble? Who wants to be shamed? Who wants to be you know, at worst, it's like, the witch wound, right, manifested. And for me, I know, like with this podcast coming out and with, I said to my husband the other day, I was like, you haven't asked about the podcast. And he's like, what do you mean?  I'm so proud. I can't wait, like what are you talking about? And I was like, this feels like really vulnerable for me. And what I realized by talking myself through, like, what the mess was inside is that there's a part of me that scared that they will come for me. And I don't know who they are. But, they.

Anna Toonk  19:07: Oh, I talk about to myself and in my writing group, this comes up a lot, too, like the imagined they. Like, who? But that feeling, that fear, and that holding yourself back, it feels so real. And I mean, often I think a lot of us have examples of when, I mean, it's whether it's intuition or boundaries, or like any of these things that I think are really needs that are really unique and individual and kind of can't be refuted, you know. If I say my intuition tells me it's not a good idea to do this. You can't really argue with that, you know? Like, okay? You know, like we have to come up with a different solution. So, it does make things harder in some ways if people really want conformity.

Nina Endrst  19:29: Or acceptance even.

Anna Toonk  20:02: I think for me, I wanted acceptance. So I was like, Okay, I'll ignore that. You know, but how often, I was always like in my friend group if I was like, I don't know, I think that person sucks, you know? And everyone be like, Oh my god, Anna. Like, no one, you know?

Nina Endrst  20:14: People were scared to say anything to me.

Anna Toonk  20:18: And then sure enough, they'd be like, Oh, my God, like,

Nina Endrst  20:21: You're so right.

Anna Toonk  20:22: Exactly. And I would be like, Yeah. Well, or often I'd be like, I don't get it. Like, everybody loves this person, and I don't. Like, what's wrong with me? You know, and it would just be a vibe or our energy just wasn't a fit. But my intuition wasn't wrong. That person wasn't for me. Just in traditional language, I was like, I need to find a reason they're bad to justify my feeling or why I want to separate myself. But I had to learn just like, No, they're not for you. That's it, that's fine. That's all the information you need.

Nina Endrst  20:49: That's such a good thing to like, stick into all of our brains. Like, we don't need to go to the gossip space, or we don't need to go to the place where that person becomes this, that, or the other thing.

Anna Toonk  20:59: You don't need to, I mean, like most of us, like, obviously, there's extremes to the spectrum, but like, most of us are, like, more reasonable than we maybe give ourselves credit for. So if for whatever reason, and it's like, fine, I think to be open and be like, Is it because I'm jealous? Like, I think it's worth doing the audit. But if you're like, you know what, I don't know what it is. Like, energy doesn't lie. So trust that. Like, if you're like, our energy is not a fit, like, you know, that you and I have had this discussion about, like, you know, seeking out different, like, collaborators, and, you know, different companies. They're talented people or whatever, but we're like, yeah, we just don't think it's a match.

Nina Endrst  21:41: And I've gone against my intuition with that, because I thought I needed to at the beginning with, like, the resume that they had, or like, how, maybe I was just judging them, and they were different than me, but that was okay, and as far as their styles. And every single time I was proven right. And I was like, I mean, it only happened, like twice, but still, it's like, go with that.

Anna Toonk  22:16: Yeah, because it's not really about right or wrong, or outside of you. So you don't have to defend it. You can, I mean, and I think I always felt really defensive or like I needed to explain it or justify it, or I got really trapped in that. And I think that would make me gossipy, or that would make me mean even to be like, well, they're this. You know, and it's like, that's just so much energy on someone you know you're not fit for, you know? But something when I went to Delphi, the real life Hogwarts as I describe it, but when I did the in-depth channeling program, like something that was really illuminating for me, is they talked about, like how much our intuition gets shut down when we're little.

Anna Toonk  23:00: They're like, even parents that are like, super well meaning, you know, or whatever. You know, they're like, you come across your mom, and she's crying, and you're like, you know, Mom, why are you crying? And she's like, Oh, no, I'm fine, I'm fine. They're like, you internalize that as you were incorrect, that there was no upset, you had misread the cue, you know. So they're like, most of us, the biggest killer to intuition is self doubt. And I think I grew up in a household where I, as an adult, did grapple a lot with self doubt. And it was so confusing, because I'm a really, really intuitive person, it was so confusing to feel this, like, purity of thought within myself, but then my brain be like, I'm gonna tell you all the reasons it's incorrect, you know? And try to make sense of that.

Anna Toonk  23:52: And it's been interesting for me, as I've wanted to strengthen my intuition, like to figure out how many different parts have to be sort of lined up, to allow it to kind of flourish, that it's not just about connecting to your intuition. It's not about just being in conversation with that, like, that's step one, you know, but it's also looking at all these other things that either maybe hampered it, or got in the way of it or go against your conditioning of like, you know, I really want to be liked. And it's like, sometimes if you're we're gonna really listen to your intuition, you're gonna have to say things and people might not like it, you know. And it makes sense to me that you were having those feelings come up. And I think it makes sense, too, as business owners, as women, as intuitive, as, I don't know if you identify as a witch, but I do.

Nina Endrst  24:55: Fuck yeah, I do. I mean, I'm not gunna like sit in a fucking field with a goddamn hat on and take a picture.

Anna Toonk  25:01: Well, I'm sorry, then I have to revoke your witch license.

Nina Endrst  25:04: But, I'll send you my Halloween picture from, like, 1990 where it's like five. I mean, I wish I had this costume because it was so good. It didn't look like a costume, it literally looked like just my dress. Something I want to talk about that's really interesting is how different we are, as it relates to kind of looking at or observing information. Like, when you talk about stuff, I'm like, how does she think about all of this stuff? Like, you are so analytical.

Anna Toonk  25:39: Yeah, I am.

Nina Endrst  25:41: So analytical. And why I'm saying that is because the way I approach it, like there are a lot less words, internally, or externally. They're both approaches, and you have your own approach, person listening out there, like to how you kind of explore this part of yourself and how it fits with all of the other parts of yourself, right?

Anna Toonk  26:05: Yeah.

Nina Endrst  26:06: Like, for me, I talk myself through in a very, like, brief way. But I also feel a lot physically and then kind of move it physically, you know? And I think it's just an interesting difference, right?

Anna Toonk  26:21: I think I do have physicality, like when I'm reading for someone else. And actually, grief, I'm starting to have more intuitive feelings around my own grief and stuff, which has been weird, because my father has been dead 25 years. I'm not new to this. But I'm new to really acknowledging and giving space to the massive effect it had on my life. That's new for me. And it's been interesting. I almost feel like I'm both conducting and I am the science experiment a bit with it. And it's been interesting for these various pieces of myself to almost like, come online.

Anna Toonk  27:08: And so I was taking a class on Saturday because I am a forever nerd. And I was taking it with Sarah Weinreb of MB. And it was about notion and I can't remember the woman's name who taught but was lovely and wonderful. I think her company's The Notion Bar. Anyway, people are talking about notion saying it's like, if you are, you know, like, if you've ADD and are a creative and like, it'll like change your life. I still don't get it. Anyway, I was in the class, and I started to get frustrated because I was just like, confused. I was just struggling a bit, you know, which I was like–

Nina Endrst  27:41: What the hell is notion?

Anna Toonk  27:43: It's basically, you know, like, Monday? You know, it's like a more like, creative, friendly, maybe version of that. All of it fucking sucks, because it's great. And they're robust, but it's like, oh, man, the learning curve is like, high. So I'm in this class, I'm listening. I feel really lost. I'm like, having feelings, but I'm fine. You know, like, I'm like, Okay, oh, yeah. All right, I might need to do some more work. Or I might need an even more basic class than this, you know? And then I feel like this huge bubble start kind of in my belly of just like little kids sadness. And my dad's death-aversary was on–so this is on Saturday–my dad's death-aversary was on Sunday. And I had been feeling fine. And some of my DPC gals have been like, How are you feeling? What are you going to do this year? And I was like, I don't know, I think I'm just gonna, like, kind of have a chill day, like, I feel okay. You know, I don't have any expectation of staying that way.

Anna Toonk  28:37: But I was like, maybe this year will be okay. But it was interesting to feel like my body and my intuition. So I started to have this like, somatic response. Feeling is like rising to the surface. And I'm like, Oh, my God, I might fucking burst into tears, like, is this happening? Like, I'm on Zoom about this dumb program. And my intuition was like, you need to leave this class right now. Like, give yourself permission, you're gonna get a recording, it doesn't matter. You need to take care of yourself in this moment. It wasn't even my brain. It was literally like my intuition was like, Hi, I'm not gonna let you analyze this. You're having an emotional response. So why don't you take care of that first? Like, fuck this program.

Nina Endrst  29:21: I think we need to tell people how that could show up in that way.

Anna Toonk  29:25: So the biggest thing I say to people about intuition, how to know your intuition is talking to you is, one, it can be helpful to spend some time familiarizing yourself with what are the various pieces that talk to you. Is that your body? Is it your emotions? Are you really aware of your senses? Like what are the different ways you just in general take in or process information? You know, mine tends to be verbal, un-surprising to anyone. And so I know different things. And so I started paying attention to that, to listen to what are the various voices? And I think it can be helpful to identify what is your emotional voice? What is your anxious voice? And what is your critical voice? And to know clearly what those are? Because your intuition is none of those things.

Anna Toonk  30:16: So when your intuition is talking to you, it has no stake in what you do. And it's generally looking out for what's in your best and highest. And there's no judgement. I find that I know it's my intuition when it's neutral. And it's just like, I think you should do this, you know? Or not, I mean, it doesn't say should, but when it's like, you need to take care of yourself. It's just kind of matter of fact. And so I would offer that as a way that people could kind of wade in and be like, start figuring out, like, how are the different ways you talk to yourself? And what is that? And then start to notice as well, like, how does it feel when you really know something to be true? And how does it feel when you really know something to be false? And it generally, I think, does resonate in your body.

Nina Endrst  31:06: Yeah, I agree. And I think it's helpful to kind of, without making ourselves a little bit too intense around it, to kind of record even like, I followed my intuition and this is what happened, you know? Or yet to look back on the times in the most non judgmental way and say, these are the times that I didn't follow my intuition. And to Anna's point, like, it is kind of like a third party, even though it's like the most, it's like, the closest thing to me, that's how I view it, of like someone that isn't my anxious voice that's like, run now. Everything's gonna burn to the ground. That's not what it is. But it's also not overly analytical or concerned with like, the path forward necessarily, right?

Nina Endrst  31:51: I mean, starting the business that Anna and I started together was not a thought. And it was not a critical thought, it was not an emotional thought, it was an intuitive feeling. And it started with images, actually. I just kept getting like, pictures of things in my mind. And I was like, What is this that I'm being kind of like, given, right? And I didn't know for a long time, and it started to unfold. And then I would make like, some Pinterest boards, and then I would step away. And then I was like, hmm. You know, it just had to grow, but it felt so like low pressure, you know? The stakes weren't, it didn't feel like you must do this. So I thought that that was a really kind of normal, quote, 'example' of how it can play out.

Nina Endrst  32:37: And then another one is, before I had my son, I saw his face, just like a baby face, as I was getting this energy healing done. And I was like, Oh, you're ready to have a baby. You're ready for him or her, you're ready for them. I didn't know it was a boy. I actually thought it was a girl. That was when my intuition was wrong. I thought I was getting some like major karmic kickback, which I don't really believe in. But it was just this voice from within. And there was no anxiety whatsoever, which is why I know that I will personally know when and if I'm ready to have a second because the feeling was just I know.

Nina Endrst  33:28: So it can show up in a million different ways. I also want to talk a little bit about what other people think of it. Because, you know, I had this client that she was working with me for a while, and she got back together with a boyfriend. And you know, I'm not gonna say much more than that, because it could be anybody and I want to protect her privacy. But I knew that when that happened, like our work was going to not continue. And that happened. She didn't say so much. But I could sense and I just knew, like, Oh, she's not going to continue the work. I just felt that. And I think part of what happens for a lot of women too is when they start to follow their intuition, it becomes a bit of a threat to people who around them who aren't doing the same or don't want them to expand to a level that they're meant to.

Anna Toonk  34:24: Yes. I mean, it's funny because I've come really far from that phase, but God, hearing you talk about it, I'm like, Oh, yeah, there was a real host of people in my life when I was like, okay. Because I think when I was like, I'm gonna believe, and I call that too that, initially that and I kept, I keep a journal anyway, I think it's worth it for everyone. If you really want to develop your intuition, you kind of have to become a psychic detective. You know, you're being a psychic detective for yourself, like you know, consider it a science experiment. That helped me.

Anna Toonk  35:01: And it helped me divorce from the emotion or being like, if I'm right, or I'm wrong, you know, I've just like, I'm going to take notes, I'm going to record, I'm going to start to figure this out, you know, like, what are my tells or whatever. But when I had gone through that process, and was like, I am going to self validate. And really, I think when you say, I'm going to listen to my intuition, I'm going to be in partnership with my intuition. What you're saying is like, I'm going to be in such deep partnership with myself, that you cannot split me from myself or my best interest. And if somebody kind of wants to do that, I don't know, I don't want to judge it. There's maybe people in relationships that want to divorce them from that, but I don't know that it's good.

Nina Endrst  35:44: I don't think you can know that.

Anna Toonk  35:46: I don't know. I don't think it's happening on a conscious level at all. But like, I feel like your marriage wouldn't work if Kwai was always like, if you were like, I don't know, I kind of feel this, and he was like, no.

Nina Endrst  35:57: There's no way it would last a day. And to that end, I was telling him about an ex-boyfriend the other day, and he was like, I cannot believe. Okay, let me tell you a little ex-boyfriend story.

Anna Toonk  36:10: Gather around.

Nina Endrst  36:11: Gather around the fire. So the last douchebag I dated was the king of all douchebags. And he was good on paper guy, but I knew that he was awful. I knew it with every fiber of my being. I knew it. So naturally, I think I might have mentioned this, naturally, we decided to move in together shortly after knowing each other. And he didn't even live in the city at the time. So he lived in like Colorado in like a hotel. He was like that guy. He lived in a hotel.

Anna Toonk  36:46: Oh, gosh.

Nina Endrst  36:47: Oh, yeah, like The W, okay? All right.

Anna Toonk  36:51: Yeah. I know clearly who this man is.

Nina Endrst  36:56: So we got this apartment because he decides to, quote, 'surprise me' by opening his laptop and being like, here's the apartment. Oh, yeah. I signed the lease. It's $5,000 a month.

Anna Toonk  37:10: No, no!

Nina Endrst  37:11: Wait, just wait, it gets so much better. It gets so much better, you guys.

Anna Toonk  37:15: Nina is not an unreasonable person. But the idea of this happening as someone who you know, is in business partnership with her, it's like, It's wild to think of her like, allowing someone to pick her apartment and commit her to it.

Nina Endrst  37:33: So he's like, so here's the apartment. He wanted me to be all excited about it. And I was like, it in, I mean, you probably know the building on like, first and first it's on the corner across from the Whole Foods and it literally notes. Do you know what I'm talking about?

Anna Toonk  37:45: I know exactly that building. I've been to parties on that roof. I know that building.

Nina Endrst  37:49: Satan's lair. I like smoked all the cigarettes up there. Like what is my life? I only lived there for fucking two weeks, by the way. So listen, not to get to the punch line. So I'm like, Oh my God. And meanwhile, I'm not making any money at that point. He is like some big tech guy. And he's like, All right, so you'll pay this amount, which I absolutely couldn't afford. But I was just like, Okay. So then he has me put like all this stuff on my credit card, which I did, by the way, I did it. Because I didn't want to have the conversation. And I'm such an independent person that I didn't want to be like, I can't afford that, you know?

Anna Toonk  38:31: Yeah.

Nina Endrst  38:31: Which was my own fault. So he has a bunch of stuff delivered to my apartment, that I then have to hire a moving truck, okay?

Anna Toonk  38:41: No.

Nina Endrst  38:42: Oh, yeah. And it gets so much worse. So I get to the apartment, all along my body is like, you cannot be here. Like, my intuition is like, Nina, this is not, this is not it.

Anna Toonk  38:43: I was gonna ask, at this point, where you are both in your life and in this relationship, is your intuition going like, Girl you're in trouble? I mean, is everybody trying to get your attention?

Nina Endrst  39:07: Yes. I'm sick. Like my stomach hurts. My intuition is like, no.

Anna Toonk  39:10: Are you like getting hives at this point? That's always my favorite time.

Nina Endrst  39:13: Not yet, not yet. No hives yet. So I get to the apartment, okay? It's the middle of winter. And my hair is wet, because why can't a bitch dry her hair? Like it was low. It was the low point. I couldn't even dry my hair. So I'm expecting to just walk in the apartment. He walks out, and he has a dog by the way, he walks out and I'm like, Hi. And it's like, the least exciting thing in the entire world. And he's like, so by the way, this man is like, probably almost 40 at the time. And he's like, Yeah, just so you know, you're going to stand out here and I'm going to like be with the movers because the management doesn't actually know that you're living with me. And I was like, you didn't put me on the lease? He's like, No, I didn't. And I was like, is this a joke? So then I proceeded to stand out in the freezing cold.

Anna Toonk  39:59: No.

Nina Endrst  40:09: My hair is frozen. And then, and then, I'm like, this can't get any worse. This is the bottom of the barrel, Nina. You're dying it tomorrow. And then the guy comes in and was like, is that your dog? And this man, I was just about to call him by name, which would suck for him, he was like, Oh no, that's hers. And I'm like, Oh my God, he's a sociopath. Like I'm just finding out.

Anna Toonk  40:37: This web of lies that he's like,

Nina Endrst  40:40: Told them. So now my intuition is bling bling ring ring ding ding.

Anna Toonk  40:46: Well now also, your intuition has gotten your fight or flight to be like listen, she's not listening to me. Can y'all join?

Nina Endrst  40:55: Guys, it was the longest two weeks of my life. Maybe it was a month, but it was so bad. And I'm telling you that story because he was so nasty to me. But he also did it in this like nice guy kind of way. So what he had tried to do was 100% like, divorce me from my knowing. Like, I think I told the story how he said, after our first date, which was fucking boring, by the way, he was like, Oh, yeah, my friends and I came up with a nickname for you, we call you Negative Nina. And I'm like, Oh my god.

Nina Endrst  41:31: But I had a really, I was always really, and this plays directly into the conversation about intuition, I was absolutely terrified of people calling me that because every time I said, I don't feel good about that, or that's not right or that person or no, people were like, don't be negative, stop being negative or you know, not my family, but like outsiders. They wanted me to be positive, like a woman should be. And like, everything's gonna be great. I'm gonna make the best of it. And I was like, Fuck that shit. And so this guy and I was like, Well fuck if I'm ever gonna like make it work in life with a person, maybe I'm just gonna I guess I can't be myself. And it just, I mean the deep dive that it took in a couple of weeks was just like, really bad.

Anna Toonk  42:22: But I feel like what you're offering everyone telling this story too that's important is I think a lot of people, the moment they decided like it doesn't work for me not to listen to my intuition was usually because they got somewhere that didn't work for them. It usually ended in tears and then they're like, I mean, I don't know about you like I've had things or I've done the and I'm like, do not ever forget this feeling because we do not want to return to it.

Nina Endrst  42:52: Ever again. And I decided to move out. I had no money still because it was approximately 30 days later. It hadn't quite come in yet.

Anna Toonk  43:04: What? You didn't have like a movie montage glow up like while you were in hell? Shocking.

Nina Endrst  43:08: I was just finishing my yoga teacher training. Which by the way, one time he was like, I mean I can't date a person who makes $30,000 a year. And I was like, Okay. And so I'm like, I have to move out. I don't have any money, but like I need to move out. I can't live with somebody right now, like I need to live alone. I need some fucking time. The most perfect, in like an old school Lower East Side building, which like was sketchy as fuck, but also so amazing. Like, it was a one bedroom with French doors and the woman had plants everywhere and she was so like nurturing and she was away for like four months. So I got this amazing sublet and somehow was able to stay in the neighborhood I want to be away from crazy. And it was me just being like, okay, this is what happens when you follow it, right? Yeah. And then I started to get clients and it was just like, it was a very quick shift, but after like you know 20-something years.

Anna Toonk  44:18: It took I mean, for me, I had to clear out a lot of stuff, you know? And then I do feel like following, learning how to listen to my intuition and be in partnership with it like really opened up my life you know? I think I feel really good about the relationships I have, I feel really good about the work I'm doing. Like, you know, it's like things aren't perfect. I still have problems and stuff that happen. I mean, like my bathroom ceiling caved in, you know, like things happen. But, you know, like, how I feel in my body, how I feel in my life, how I feel as a person is way, way, way better. I think because that space between like, who I am at my core and how I'm moving through the world is pretty small. Like those things are pretty aligned, you know, and that just feels better for me. Like that just makes navigating.

Anna Toonk  45:06: And I think I think a lot because I felt really outside what's normal or whatever. I was like, why is everybody cool with things and I'm just not? Like, why do I have all these feelings? You know, and like, I would offer people, too, if you have, as we start to kind of wrap up, if you're still sort of like repairing from being like, gaslit, don't be hard on yourself. That, again, any ways in which you've been taught you were wrong about your lived in your body soul experience, that's going to be where the healing needs to happen for you to be in partnership with your intuition. And be nice to yourself. If you're like, God, I don't know why I don't trust my intuition. Like, it's not by accident, it's because like, probably somewhere in your history, someone really benefited from telling you, you were wrong.

Anna Toonk  46:00: So if you can look to that. I would offer that to people. That definitely was a huge part of my own journey of like, bumping up against this resistance, or, you know, my mom would kind of always be devil's advocate and be like, well, what did you do? Or whatever, when I would tell her like, Oh, I got in a fight with this person. Like, well, they probably had a good reason to be mad at you. And I was like, Okay, cool, you have not even heard the story, you know? So if you have any history of like, just always been told, like you're wrong, you know, like, just be sweet to yourself as you...it's going to be activating, it's going to be agitating, it's literally going to bump up against that wound. So you might have to clear out some stuff before you can get into kind of like the fun part of really doing like intuitive exercises.

Nina Endrst  46:43: You're definitely gonna have to. Sorry, there's just no way around it.

Anna Toonk  46:47: And yeah, that's what it is like. You're not being victimized personally by intuitive development.

Nina Endrst  46:52: No, no. It is people, places, things. Also, though, I think you'll agree, but want to know if you do, the amount of drama that I do not have in my life.

Anna Toonk  47:04: Mmm, great point.

Nina Endrst  47:05: What drama? I don't have any drama, because I don't engage with things that I know are not good for me, right? And people, and I always had something going on, whether it be work, or bla, or this or that, or a guy that sucked or whatever. And it's like the peace that I feel on a daily basis, because I go to sleep at night knowing that I made choices that I knew were right for me. And if that, by the way, does not take away from accountability, right? If something that's right for me doesn't feel good for somebody else, but I know that I didn't intentionally hurt them, that doesn't mean I'm like, well, tough shit for you. I'm always open to have the conversation, especially because I don't feel defensive about it. Because I can explain it in a way that's like, Okay, well, here's where I was coming from.

Anna Toonk  47:54: I mean, I think you can also just acknowledge that sometimes we can't all win. You honor yourself, and someone else could not like it. Both of those things can exist.

Nina Endrst  48:02: Right. So I think wrapping up, yeah, it's just the shiny stuff and the fun stuff, you'll feel it, I think. Everybody's different, yes, but there's some serious excavating that happens, especially at the beginning. And that's just a part of the process. And it's okay, you know? And I would also say that, like, just be careful and be vigilant and aware of the people that you trust your gifts with.

Anna Toonk  48:31: Yes. And if you are seeking teachers, or seeking guidance around that, if you ask questions, they shouldn't get defensive. If you ask them what methods they use, if you want to know if they're trauma-informed teachers, all of those things should be freely forthcoming. Also, I would be a little skeptical about anything that's like, 14 days to your most psychic self. I would be a little skeptical of that. And I think sometimes those things can also be really activating. So if you're gonna do any of this, I don't want to scare anybody. But I just want to say know yourself, know your history, and trust that of who to put yourself in the hands up, because it is vulnerable work.

Anna Toonk  49:14: And the only other thing too, I thought about when you were talking about the drama, is I had to also become really aware of when it was my intuition versus when I was creating a story. So I think sometimes if you have struggled to set boundaries, if you've struggled to really trust your voice, use your voice, things like that, you can get really in the habit of saying well I know or I know they're not going to do that or whatever. And creating the stories versus taking action or being like, I'm going to trust my intuition that this doesn't feel good. And I'm gonna like talk to this person or whatever. So if you can also start developing an awareness of where instead of taking action or communicating, do you build a story in your own head?

Nina Endrst  50:00: Great point. And on that note, next time

Anna Toonk  50:04: Bye. No, joking. What are we talking about next time? Next time, we're talking about knowledge.

Nina Endrst  50:08: Yeah. Thoughts, knowledge, the mind.

Anna Toonk  50:11: Yeah, I'm pretty excited about it.

Nina Endrst  50:13: Yeah, me too. I hope to be able to bring something to the table.

Anna Toonk  50:17: You will, I'll be interested. Because there's so many different, like, learning styles  that, I mean, knowledge is going to be really good because at first, when we were like deciding our topics, Nina was like, Oh my god, you're gonna love that. Like, Can I get a word in? And I was like, of course, you can, because I'm gonna want to hear like, you know? It's really interesting for Nina and I, because we were really different. Like, it's like, we're 50/50. We're 50% very similar and 50% very different. But I think what always, like cracks us up is we arrive 9 times out of 10 at the same destination, but it's like we took two different totally different routes to it.

Nina Endrst  50:52: But we're high-fiving each other the whole way.

Anna Toonk  50:54: It's true. It's like, Oh, I took you know, like, I took a boat. And she's like, you know you can just drive, right? And I'm like, Well, I like the boat.

Nina Endrst  51:03: I Ubered.

Anna Toonk  51:04: That's true. It's true.

Nina Endrst  51:06: All right. Well, thanks for being with us, people. We'll be with you next time.

That's all for today's episode.

Anna Toonk  51:17: If there's a topic you want us to discuss, please submit it on our website at thesoulunity.com/howtobehuman.

Nina Endrst  51:23: If you want to connect with other thoughtful humans, please join us at The Soul Unity. Listeners get two weeks free by going to our website and visiting our podcast page.

Anna Toonk  51:32: Thanks for listening. And remember, we're guides, not gurus.