There is so much out there to get mad about. Social injustices, class warfare, continued

colonization, the act of destruction of our planet by those focused on prophets and not

people. We can find it overwhelming at times. The good news is there are equally as many,

if not more, stories of people coming together and rising up against the forces at play. So

the creators of Blueprints of Disruption have added a new weekly segment, Ravel Rants, where

we will unpack the stories that have us most riled up, share calls to action, and most importantly,

celebrate resistance. Welcome back to Ravel Rants. We've got a lot to talk about today.

We're gonna keep talking about Palestine, though as usual, it will have that Canadian connection.

We really need to update you from the stories that we included in our last rabble rant, namely

MLA Selena Robinson and her downfall. We're also going to talk about reports coming out

of Nicaragua and perhaps an ICJ case looming against Canada. We're also going to get into

Canada's so-called special visa program and the other performative shit that's coming out

of our federal government. But... Like I said, an update on Selena Robinson. So Santiago,

she did get some punishment, right? In our last episode, we were really frustrated that almost

nobody, but I think Charlie Angus at that point, and Matthew Green came out quickly soon after.

We did see Jagmeet Singh make a statement a little bit wishy washy. There were some folks

that were very clear within the NDP that they were displeased with. MLA Robinson, but surely

it was the relentless actions of activists that solidified her resignation from the, her minister's

position. So she's still in MLA. She's trying to hold onto that. She's still in the party,

but she's not in the cabinet anymore. This didn't get a lot of airtime, but her position in the

cabinet is actually significant. She was in charge of post-secondary education. And she

had used that position to have a teacher fired for their Palestinian views. And so it's really

ironic that there's backlash to the backlash when the person being targeted here has a history

of holding people accountable for their political views, if they don't jive with the folks that

make decisions. And I think a lot of people are trying to argue that it shouldn't be the

electorate. or constituents or NDP members that should actually determine if she stays in office.

So when I say the activists were relentless, I mean, they showed up at a caucus retreat

and it looked like some of them from the videos that they posted got inside. And what really

frustrated me was you could hear them calling for the MLAs that they could get into eyeshot

with, calling them by name. with a real familiar tone as though they've worked with them before.

And I imagine if you're an activist in BC, you've had to work with members of the ruling party,

especially the NDP at this point. And so, but that got them nowhere. The political class

is really closing ranks on this issue. And I think that's for multiple reasons, not just

because some of them actually hold Zionist views. but because they didn't like the way that their

own base held them accountable. They didn't like the way they were potentially being removed

from office without having an election. It's, it's, they're always trying to drive home this

artificial point that the ballot box is the be-all end-all of democracy. And everything

outside of that is labeled as like intimidation, harassment. Premier Ebb use that old line that

we've heard so many times in the NDP, at least people who are trying to reform it, that those

protesters were just trying to divide the party, right? Trying to sow discord in politics, like

that was their only goal and it wasn't to actually hold somebody accountable. So I'm actually

loving how the ruling political class and adjacent are. really upset about the backlash that Robinson

faced. Yeah, there's a certain level of irony there though, isn't there? Talking about, you

know, ballot box and democracy as, you know, David Eby, how did he get into power? I mean,

at the end of the day, it was uncontested because they expelled the only candidate that was running

against them, right? So it's not like the ballot box got him there in the first place, right?

And I think that there's, you know, I don't know if I was expecting them to remove her,

but I think it's important to like, you know, because everyone's drawing the comparisons

between this and Sarah Jama, right? And it needs to be mentioned like, yeah, they didn't do

this out of a sense of morality or what is right, you know, they did this, as you said, because

of the pressure. And it took them. quite a few days to do so, right? It's not like with Sarah

Jammer, which was quick, right? This was, they had to because of the pressure. Yeah, Robinson,

you know, tried to issue an apology. We talked about that in the last episode and then they

tried to seed a little bit more by agreeing to take anti-Islamophobia training, which I

need to point out is like not the issue. again, not all Palestinians are Muslim, and it's a

very unique type of racism that Palestinians and their allies face. And it needs to be named

that way, in the fact that they couldn't even acknowledge or say Palestine in response to

all of that she's done in the past few months. Because in the end, it wasn't just those statements

and a few tweets that she— People then poured over her accounts that she's now deleted. And

it was endless by her and her husband just completely perpetuating the worst Zionist narratives.

Some things that even Zionists don't even try to argue, like that all Jewish people have

a birthright to Israel. And that it was just astonishing, the breadth of it. And she has

been elected since 2013. I imagine people have encountered her racism many, many times over

and she's maintained power. So it's absolutely to the credit of the people who put pressure

in all kinds of ways. I mean, they were forced to cancel a big fundraiser and that would have

cost them a lot of money, right? They'd already booked the venue, everything. It was probably

the day before that they canceled. So they were really feeling the heat in BC. and rightly

so. But then you have folks like Abby Lewis coming out this morning and calling the action

outside of Selena Robinson's office childish and feeding into our detractors narrative that

it was just inherently anti-Semitic because she's Jewish. It was Post-It notes and shock.

And again, it's like that episode we did with Skye Johnson where papers on windows are getting

people to really clutch their pearls and frame it as something more than what it is. And I

think, again, that goes back to the point of the ruling elite just being really afraid.

They're seeing themselves in these politicians, even if they're not elected. And they don't

like that idea. They don't want to be a Melanie Jolie and have their house and their neighborhood

disrupted. And Like I've said before, I believe it is part of their role to rein us in, always.

These folks that, especially folks like Avi Lewis and Naomi Klein, because we know that

they know the urgency. Like if you're talking about climate action or if you're talking about

stopping a genocide in Palestine and they're like what then advocating for really measured

responses and... stick to petitions and respectful protest. And that's the opposite of what the

movement needs to progress. And it's always from this really privileged political position

where they're used to getting a phone call back from people they need to speak to. They're

used to having a huge platform, book tours, where they can share their ideas and people

will listen and then share on. Not everybody has that access. Some people need to leave

post-it notes on their MLAs window because that's the only time they can actually communicate

with them. Your emails don't actually go to them. Your phone calls don't get through to

them. And it's again, this political elitist class trying to cut off avenues for actual

change, right? And trying to keep us in this really narrow definition of protest. And they

have no right to be doing that. You know, it comes back to the conversation we had last

episode, I think about standards, right? The standards that were held to versus the standards

that they're held to, right? Because this is the most tame shit. Like, some chalk, some

papers that can be taken down, you know? That is incredibly, incredibly mild. Like, there's

no actual permanent... damage here whatsoever. It's people communicating with their politicians

and holding them accountable. And I mentioned the double standards because, you know, look

at how much it took for something, for action to be taken. It took blatantly racist comments.

It took a pattern of blatantly racist comments. You know, this was something that has been

happening over time. It took all of this public outrage and it still took them days to come

to this decision. That is not the standard that we're held to whatsoever. It's not fair and

it's fucked up, but that's the situation. We know who has the power here. Like we know where

the loyalties of those in power lie. And it's not with the people who are putting up messages

with chalk. It's with... the people who get outraged at messages with chalk. One thing

that bugs me about what Avi Lewis did as well was not just that he criticized a tactic, which

I really don't appreciate, especially when it comes from the powerful, to be honest.

But that wasn't it. It was like he was pleading with journalists to do the right thing. please

don't associate this with the movement. As though one, he spoke for the fucking movement, which

I don't know how that's possible. That's a really arrogant way to position yourself. But two,

be pleading with the same people who have already set this narrative that anything that they

do is a pro-Khamas, anti-Jewish hate rally. You know, there's already that narrative that

exists in the media and he's pleading with them? Like, please, please don't judge me by those

actions. Like, how dare you? How dare you? And I'm gonna give a little bit of, maybe I won't.

I mean, I'll say that like it's quite ironic and given his history, right? You know, I've

talked to Javi Lewis before and, you know, he, for example, has told me, Like he's about,

oh yeah, you know, I apologize and condemn for the actions of my family, my dad and grandfather.

They were people who were some of the people involved in breaking up the waffle back in

the day, right? Then he's going and doing the same things, right? Yeah, like moderating the

left, trying to keep us kind of bottled up. That's how it feels. Like, especially with

you and I working so hard to get people to realize their power and to explore so many avenues

to pressure power and to build community and solidarity. And it's just, it feels like they're

trying to do the opposite, but with the same fucking knowledge that we have. And so that

really makes me mad. And I could spend time criticizing the fact that, you know, Lisa McLeod

is also up in arms about how we are harassing politicians and that conservatives think exactly

the same way Selena Robinson does. And clearly a lot of liberals, right? Melanie Jolie will

not go on skate in this episode. But the reason I end up focusing on the NDP or people that

present themselves as leftists is because, again, like I said, they know better, but they have

this sphere of influence in the same set of people we're going to need to rely on to do

something more. And so if they are listening to them and holding them on the pedestal that

we tend to do with people, especially rich people, especially people who have platforms, you know,

that's what platforms are. right, pedestals. And they have the ability to prevent meaningful

change. And I wonder if they know that they're doing it, if it's that discomfort that they

just naturally feel, especially coming from a political family, like do they see daddy's

office being plastered and vandalized and harassed at dinner and they just don't want that for

them or themselves? Or is it like, do they think it's actually a bad tactical maneuver? And

if I would say that they're wrong, but they're entitled to have a difference of opinion, but

they're not entitled to use those platforms to actually slam people who are doing good

work or doing work. Like, you don't have to agree with everybody's tactics, right? But

like, stop drawing the line of fucking post-it notes and shock. Like, surely there's further

extremes you're going to allow people to go to stop a genocide. Yeah, yeah, no, it's one

of these things where it's like, in this current moment, saying these things is just so particularly

offensive, I think. Right? Because we should be doing much more. I mean, you know, in Montreal,

they were just blocking up some train tracks, you know, there's been, you know, the barricading

of some arms manufacturers in Canada, you know, good work. stuff that we should be doing. It's

a lot more direct than some chalk. Like some chalk is like what I expect. These things are

what I, and it's the same thing, you know, like in Humber, you know, a student was going around

putting stickers and they got kicked out for it. I mean, eventually they had to apologize

to him, but it's, you know, it's the same thing where it's like, really, is this that offensive

to you? Is this that inconvenient for you? Get like some... Get a hose, wash it away. We'll

come back and chalk it up again. But like, fuck, this takes minimal effort for you to address.

This is not an inconvenience on you. You know what is an inconvenience? Genocide. A lot more

than an inconvenience. And that's what's happening. And we're directly complicit and responsible

in it. So like, focus, like, I don't know about you. Like, I'm pretty tired, you know, running

around, lots of things going on. I had to pick and choose where I spend my energy right now,

you know? There's a lot more happening than what I can possibly address or participate

in, so I had to pick and choose. I can't imagine being in a position where I'd have the energy

to be talking about chalk instead of talking about a genocide, you know? I cannot fathom

that. So like, fuck off.

Like, it's almost comical to have to, like, I don't know what to say about this, fuck off.

Like. Okay, I'm gonna give them a kernel of credibility in that clearly it's not the chalk

or the post-it notes that's really upsetting. I think it's just the overall harassment like

the thing was plastered. really plastered and that's kind of hit in the feels of some folks

who that were talking about but there was the use of the word Nazi that has triggered a certain

response. Obviously the word Nazi, when you're also talking about a Jewish person, will invoke

certain, you know, intergenerational trauma, shall we say? So, this is a difficult one for

me because I don't tend to use that language to describe Israel, but not because you can't

make a fair comparison. I, that is, that can be done. But it's because it generates responses

like this, this knee-jerk reaction almost shuts down the conversation, very reactive language.

However, I will defend people's right to do it because it is not a form of Holocaust denial.

It's not antisemitism. Surely that's obvious now. as we see the remaining population of

Gaza, with much of Palestine now, pushed into a tiny parcel of land that's now surrounded

by openly genocidal troops that have proven bent on eliminating everything Palestinian

or adjacent, and they have been squeezing these people and isolating them and exiling them

and killing them because of who they are for many, many years. And it's all based on an

ideology that pins one type of person as more worthy than others, and spends a lot of its

resources dehumanizing and isolating a certain set of peoples and torturing them slowly. So

there's fucking parallels to be made, right? But the Holocaust was fucking horrific, that's

the point, because this is horrific. This has the same patterns. And it was It's the same

attempt to scapegoat, remove, and then erase an entire set of people who don't fit a certain

image. And people should be allowed to make those comparisons, but they should also know,

like we talked in the last episode about like protecting the movement and making certain

calls about messaging, then sometimes when you use certain messaging, although it might be

valid, it causes problems that you perhaps shouldn't have had to deal with. don't want to deal with.

Right? So that's a tough one. I get that. But at the same time, it comes back to like just

the current moment and, you know, the overwhelming amount of things that are happening. And it's

like, you know, I just could not imagine that catching my attention more than other things,

you know? But you're not Jewish. No, I know. But in Canadian education, we know that like

we're taught. very clearly about, you know, World War II, the Nazis, this is like the great

evil. It's what comes, when horrible things happen, it's what comes to mind. Like, I get

that, right? Is there a level of sensitivity we had? Of course there is. But look at what

we're talking about right now. Like, we're talking about an active genocide being occurred. Like,

maybe there are bigger things to focus on, you know? Just... Perhaps. I just, I don't have,

like right now, and I guess I'll segue a little bit here, but you know, Nicaragua was just

sending a message to Canada, UK, Germany, and Netherlands about the possibility of taking

them to the ICJ over complicits, complicitness, of being complicit. in genocide, right? They

send a very strongly worded memo about this, talking about, you know, the continued arms,

the continued support financially with arms to Israel, the cutting off of UNRWA, which

they describe as collective punishment, which, you know, again, not allowed, and, you know,

the lack of action because Once there is even the possibility of a genocide happening, it

demands action, yet everything we're doing is doubling down, right? That was happening at

the same time as all of these things. This has been happening for a few days now. It's gotten

very, very little attention, but it's showing, you know, the eyes of the world are seeing

what's going on here in Canada. They're seeing the actions of our government. And yet, what

are we focusing on? You know, these are people in power with platforms. Are they doing everything

in their ability to hold Canada accountable? No, they're part of it. I just, I just don't

have a lot of room for them to be making moral arguments when they're failing to their moral

obligations, you know, like we'll criticize. When people in our movement step out of line,

you know, we. We're happy to do that because we're living up to our end of things as much

as we can. You don't get to do that if you're not doing what you have to do. And when you're

someone in power, when Avi Lewis, for example, has a fucking massive platform, he talks, people

listen. Is he doing everything he could do? No, I don't think so. And it's one of those

things where I have a lot of room for understanding of like, everyone has their own. own limitations

of how much energy they can or cannot put into something, he can be doing more. And not doing

it to me, just shut up. Don't talk. Like I don't want to hear you if you're not. And definitely

don't claim to represent me. You know, you trying to talk for the movement, you don't talk for

me. I wanna go back to that Nicaragua memorandum that went out to folks that I know you're still

trying to dig up some details and it's still to be seen how that goes, but it really does

open up a discussion on. Canada being named in the very few countries that are named. Now,

folks might notice that the United States isn't in the list of countries that Nicaragua has

targeted in, and surely a case can be made, or the case can be made that Israel, I even

get them mixed up, that the United States is more than complicit in this, but when I went

to go find what I could, you Google, Nicaragua and the ICJ and you get hits on a case from

1984 where Nicaragua took the United States to the same court we saw South Africa and Israel

in. They were challenging the U.S. on their usual tactics of supplying, arming, training

paramilitaries to operate within Nicaragua and also using their own U.S. military to operate

on sovereign Nicaraguan soil and they won, obviously, because there's no lack of evidence that the

United States not only does this, but has a pattern of doing this. And although the United

States showed up at court at first and used the same Israeli tactic of trying to say, you

know, you don't have jurisdiction over us, like, I don't know why the world court wouldn't and

why the world court gets to decide. And then in turn, yes, we do. But either way, that's

what happened. So once that happened, United States, well, we're just not coming anymore.

So they just stopped showing up the proceedings. Obviously the ruling went against them and

nothing happened from it. They just ignored it. They pretended it didn't happen and it

really didn't benefit Nicaragua all that much. I mean, I'm sure they felt very validated and

history will show that that's in fact exactly what the United States was doing there. but

it just speaks to that conversation around international law and how we're gonna hold these countries,

including our own, accountable. And I don't think it's those institutions that are gonna

do it, right? If you want Melanesia Lee to know just how horrible her actions are and Trudeau,

I think you are gonna have to show up and fight their house. You are gonna have to make sure

they cannot dine in peace. You are gonna have to remove them from their positions because

otherwise all these avenues are kind of just... set up as performative and resource wasting,

frankly, you know, like it's great to have validation, but we've had no impact on Israel since the

ICJ ruling. I know, you know, Dimitri and we spent a good chunk of that episode talking

about the positives, like the confirmation that kind of came from that and that it, you know,

it didn't ask for a ceasefire. But in... It did. However, as we anticipated, it has not

really manufactured anything for the people of Gaza. They have not seen the fruits of that

at all. So, and our government has not responded in a way, like you mentioned, that says that

this court ruling happened. They've doubled down. We just need Melanesia Lee sanction Hamas.

What the fuck?

It's one of those things where it's like, if Canada on October 7th comes out and says, we're

sanctioning the leaders of Hamas, yada yada, you're making a statement here. To do it early

February, after the ICJ ruling, after everything, kind of out of nowhere, it kind of speaks volumes

about... what kind of message they're trying to send to us. You know, I think Melanie Jolie

has just, oh God, she's been absolutely awful. I think she makes Chrisia Freeland very proud.

Like the CBC Pitchbot is not satire anymore. It stopped being satire like a hundred days

ago. Someone fund the CBC Pitchbot to actually do coverage because I'm guaranteed it'll do

better journalism than the CBC at this point. non-stop get it they get it like you guys haven't

done enough damage already like Withdrawing aid and now trying to sanction Hamas and sure

yeah, okay I get what you're saying about if they had done it earlier I mean people would

have been totally justified you get it and I'm not saying that things that happened on October

7th are Are to be celebrated. All right, but at this point At this point, there's only one

set of people with arms that are willing to stop snipers, Israeli snipers from shooting

children. Right? Like, we are watching a set of people that are now herded into a tiny area.

Leaflets are being dropped on Rafah, the last place, and ground troops are encircling it.

Carpet bombing is happening in this last safe zone. And the only people, the only armed entity

to the Houthi rebels, okay, so no, that's not right, but okay, so the only armed entities

that dare stop them, whether it be Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthi rebels, Iran, they're all

just immediately painted as bad guys and you want to disarm them all. But also at the same

time, you're not willing to like send in your peacekeepers. You're not willing to sanction

Israel. You're still arming them to the teeth. Like at what point does this not become insane?

Are peacekeepers even still a thing? Like, like I remember learning about that in elementary

school and thinking, Oh, that's the coolest thing ever. You know, it's that that's not

a thing. Right. Like. You think that they would have already sent them if it was a thing. It's

a very selective thing. I think we've no one's really met their obligations in terms of peacekeeping.

They've not ever been peacekeepers. So, like, I hope everyone heard the irony in my voice

when I said that. And that's the thing is that, like, you know, Canada, you know, Lester B.

Pearson was supposed to be like the founder of that whole thing, right? We're it's supposed

to be part of like I was taught as a kid that like that was Canadian identity, the Canada

goes. to ensure peace in the world. Now we're like, Israel has a right to carpet bomb whoever

they want to carpet bomb for whatever reason that they want to carpet bomb, which I mean,

that's a subtext behind it all, right? And I mean, like there are performative things that

we could be doing that we're not doing. You know what I mean? There are like things that

don't change anything at all. Like we could be putting out messages like we strongly condemn.

the killing of any civilians and we ask Israel to cease hostilities.

We could be performative about this. We could be saying things and not actually changing

anything. We're not even doing that. Oh, we are. I've got one for that. I got one for that

category. Our so-called special visa program for... people trapped in Gaza. So, you know,

we're good. We welcome refugees, right? We brought over tens of thousands of Ukrainian refugees

and yeah, fundraisers. You know, we have these special kind of visa programs that they instituted

here for getting people out of Gaza who had family here in Canada. And the liberals were

celebrated. We, you know. Total disclaimer, we've always been wary of the attempt to relocate

Palestinians as the only mechanism of Canadian involvement. I mean, that's just feeding into

the exile of more Palestinians. But people do need to escape Gaza, right? Folks are injured,

folks want to get out of there for obvious reasons. And so our special visa program, now if you've

heard our other episode, a reminder that Israel holds the secure- the last say on security

clearance for these folks. So to start, but it's only for a thousand people and for three

years only. And those people that qualify have to agree that their family will support them

the entire time. So that means no social assistance. It's likely not even a working visa. You have

to have. at least economically stable relatives over here that will look after you for three

years and the premises after three years they're going to send you back. I don't... Average

Canadian can't afford a $500 emergency. Where the hell are people going to have the money

to support people like that? Come on. Yeah, and not only that, in three years, what are

we facing? We don't even know what Gaza will look like in three years. We don't know if

Israel will allow them to return. That part is just a farce to begin with. But Santiago,

1,000 people are allowed to escape. And we are, what, 130 days into this. Guess how many people

have qualified under that program? Did anyone? No. Not one. And there's a CBC story that I'll

link. And It talks about a family that was essentially wiped out while waiting for a response. There's

like a third step to the qualification process. My guess, my speculation is that's the security

clearance part and likely being held up by Israel, but I wouldn't put it past us to have just

made this entire visa program another one of your performative things that we're talking

about. where we said we would pull people out, we would do family reunification, and we never

had any intention of doing that at all. And there won't even be people left to bring over

on the list because there's nowhere left safe in Gaza. Have you seen the charts where it

shows, you know, population density in Gaza versus where the bombing in Gaza has happened?

When we talk about there's nowhere safe, it's there bombing everywhere where there's people.

Yeah, those two pictures are the same, and folks should take... time, if they haven't already,

to look up a map of the Gaza Strip and imagine that entire population is now into that bottom

southern corner, south of Chanyunis, and that's about 1.6 million people. The numbers are really

hard to define at this point, but you know, you've got definitely over a million people.

all displaced, most of them living on the streets are in tents, and now they're being treated

the same way in the North, where they're being told to evacuate, and there's absolutely no

work for them to go. And during this kind of movement from Khan Yunus, where a lot had settled,

to Ra'afah, was when Mansour Soumin was reported missing. Now if you, again, have been living

under a rock or something and haven't heard about Canadian-Palestinian journalist Mansour

Soumin, he was... reported to have been abducted by the IDF. None of that has been confirmed.

All that we do know is his family and his support team lost contact with him for about two weeks.

And the response here, Canada side, was immense. There was a petition that went out that quickly

gained lots of signatures and you even got the Prime Minister actually making a statement.

trying to express some bullshit concern. I don't know what. what happened, but we do know that

he is back on air. He is back reporting from a conunis in the Gaza Strip. And you can, I'll

link his IG, his Instagram account, so people can see for themselves. But I think that was

a relief for people. But it also again brings up the discussion how like no journalists are

safe. And the Canadian media here is doing such an abysmal job. Jesse

This man is not even pretending to be a journalist anymore. He had nothing to say about Selena

Robinson's anti-Palestinian racism, like, at all, even though that was the story in Canadian

media for the entire weekend. The only time he chimed in was, of course, to comment on

the awful vandalism that happened outside of her office and to label it as anti-Semitism.

So... The fact that this guy still has his platform is astonishing. I wonder what their subscription

list looks like now. Yeah, no, I mean, it's such a free fall. The way that Jesse Brown

has just completely fallen apart. And it's not even just like Israel Palestine stuff. He's

like talking about like, he's like defending AI porn and stuff, like making people's image

and like, what the hell? Like this guy completely lost it. What the hell is wrong with him? Speaking

of people who lost their way, Joe Roberts is no longer with J-Space. We can speculate all

we want. We're going to tell ourselves that they finally rid themselves of that Zionist.

Fun fact, the very next day, or at least like maybe two days, but very soon after they announce

his departure. they release a statement that Canada should reinstate funding to UNRWA. So

I wonder if maybe Joe was holding that statement back, because as we know, Zionists don't actually

make up the majority of the Jewish population, and the views that they hold are not inherently

Jewish. And so that was nice to see coming out of J-Space to take that stand, that had gone

too far. But, yeah, it's... Unfortunately, there's no shortage of figures on the left. All of

these feel like they should be in quotations that are really feeding into the narratives

that we try so hard to tear down. And so I guess that's why we have such gripes with them. It

feels like we're having to undo their handiwork all the time or maybe vice versa. Yeah, no,

I mean, it's. It's it's. Sorry, I don't even know where to go with this because it's so...

Like it's comical, but it also shows like, you know, don't put anyone on a pedestal. Least

of us don't put us on a pedestal, you know? Like don't put... No, nobody, no one figure

represents the left and we're all, you know, people that need to be held accountable. Those

of us who are searching for platforms, those of us who are trying to like speak. We all

need to be held accountable, you know? Like, I sure hope that like, if I ever said something

that fucking absurd, that people would be holding me accountable, and I hope that I would be,

you know, mature enough to listen. But yeah, it's, there are no heroes, you know? This is

about all of us. It's not about any one of us. And... So the Jesse Rob, the Jesse Browns and

the Joe Roberts and everyone like, you know, it's, heed the warning signs, right? Yeah,

clearly there's no heroes because I'm a little bit older. I feel like I grew up surrounded

by music that was a little bit revolutionary. I'm not gonna start naming artists, but I just

kind of grew up with the impression that musicians often use their music for a cause. Should and

perhaps that's just my whole mentality that anybody with a platform should use it in particularly

times like this

Again we've talked about how I don't really possess a filter So I perhaps can never maybe

that's why I never apply one But I'm kind of talking about the entertainment industry and

the Grammys just happened I didn't watch them. I don't watch those things generally, but you

know, you can't help but get a summary of events through social media. And I guess I expected

in this moment somebody to get up or multiple people to try to press this issue to perhaps

be dressed in black, red, white, and green. Anything to try to draw attention to use. this

kind of huge platform. And only Annie Lennox did, right? There was an immemorial portion

that they get through and she did, she held up her fist and she made comments there. And

that was it. And it was hosted by a South African. So my disappointment in Trevor Noah extends

far beyond the Grammys. I mean, I once heard him tell a joke about... South African miners

just being completely slaughtered by police. And it was a real kind of class war joke that

rubbed me the wrong way. So I've not liked him for since I heard that. But it does disappoint

me because he has been on the record for Palestine as have other artists. But some of them are

just so silent now. And shit like Roger Waters just got dropped from his label. That man has

been part of the BDS movement for Decades he has been so outspoken his concert backgrounds

are often a political message mostly about Palestine and Now they decide to drop them. I mean, I

don't know like you said there are no heroes and I shouldn't expect it But I think I did

at least out of musicians But as a musician Can you agree with me here? Do you? You just

think it's the same old, same old, that particular industry, like every other industry. Just,

there's no space for it. And to be fair, it's not all musicians, right? It's the ones that

get platforms like the Grammys, right? Um, because, you know, I mean, I might use the example of

Low-Key, you know, one of my favorite rappers. And I discovered him through his music, not

through his commentary, but he hasn't taken a day off. Since then, I'm not sure he's sleeping.

No, like he's been a relentless warrior for the cause, right? So, you know, shout out again,

as always, to Loki. You know, people like Macklemore put out a statement. Shout out to him, you

know, I wasn't surprised by that. People are surprised that he's always spoken about these

things. But I guess there are some people that were there that I expect him maybe do more.

Killer Mike's an example. You know, Killer Mike, he does speak out for a lot of things, but

you know, he I don't even know who won Grammys. I don't even know anything about who was there.

I just know I saw some clips of Killer Mike there, so and I didn't hear about him speaking,

so um but yeah, I mean history also hasn't been kind to a lot of artists who have spoken out,

right? Sinead O'Connor comes to mind as someone who had it pretty rough for things that we

all now know. She was right about her. Well, Annie Lennox was actually singing one of her

songs during the memoriam because Sinead O'Connor passed away this year. So it's funny that you

had tied her to that. And even currently, you know, kind of like Hollywood related, but...

Susan Sarandon, she was dropped by her agency for showing up at Palestinian solidarity rallies.

There's the Scream franchise blew up, the young actress there, Melissa Barbera, she was openly

fired for her views on Palestine. And there's a great article of her kind of pushing back

on that in the Rolling Stone, being vindicated of sorts. But it's the same pressures that

exist in the academia. and the political world. So I think that's what made the Selena Robinson

case important for the points that we discussed already at the beginning of the episode. But

also, you know, it's one of the first times that we've seen somebody be removed from an

important position for being a Zionist. And I think, like, there's some people in my mentions

sometimes trying to... force me to make space for Zionism, as though I should tolerate Zionism,

and I don't, just for the record, I don't think it's a legitimate ideology. I think it's harmful.

I'm not talking about whether or not they should be able to say what they need to say. I just

think it shouldn't exist. There shouldn't be political systems based on Zionism. So it's

just, it feels like that's part of the tide turning. Although the retributions against

pro-Palestinian activists has surely not ended, the fact that pressure finally paid off against

the impunity for which Zionists had been operating, as though they could just hold these positions

that erase Palestinians in their mind and spout them and still hold a job in elected office.

And that's no longer the case. So May all the Zionists elected officials out there know that

we're coming for them. But to be clear, you can be a Zionist and be in political office.

You just can't be openly racist and a Zionist. And, you know, I disagree. I think in a Canadian

office, there shouldn't be a politician that believes one set of people are deserving of

an exclusive homeland. Sorry, let me be clear. I I don't think that they should be. I mean

more that like clearly they're allowed to, like clearly they get space to as long as they don't,

you know, as long as they're slick about it, right? As long as they hide these views. Yes,

so their policies will still reflect a Zionist ideology, but don't you dare spout that shit

in a Zionist lobby webinar that's going to be posted. online afterwards. So you'll have to

at least couch your language or be a little bit more careful. But the fact that it's just

like not legitimate anymore. And it had been for so long, like people have been saying this

nonsense for a long time, they still say it. But now we have an example of where we held

them accountable and we drew a line. So I hope that's a trend.

over until the genocide ends, until there's a free Palestine, like... We need to keep putting

that pressure. We need to keep fighting. We need to keep putting papers of tape and chalk

and much more than that on all the politicians' office. And people like Melanie Jolie shouldn't

get a peaceful night's sleep because I can tell you that the children of Gaza are not getting

a peaceful night's sleep with the bombs dropping over their head. So I see no reason why Melanie

Jolie should herself, so. Yeah, we need to keep at it and not expect, and also, like, I think

if there's a theme from all of this, it's not expecting those in power to act in the interests

of anyone other than those in power because they've shown you time and again what this

is. They have their class consciousness. They know who they are. And we know who we are,

you know. Don't confuse them as anything but. I don't know. That is a wrap on another episode

of Blueprints of Disruption. Thank you for joining us. Also, a very big thank you to the producer

of our show, Santiago Halu-Quintero. Blueprints of Disruption is an independent production

operated cooperatively. You can follow us on Twitter at BPofDisruption. If you'd like to

help us continue disrupting the status quo, please share our content. And if you have the

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