00:00:06 Sana: There are moments in life that don't arrive with drama or noise, but with a sudden, undeniable pause. Moments that interrupt the momentum we have been riding for years. Moments that don't ask for permission. They just arrive. For many of us, productivity has become a kind of proof of worth speed. It feels like safety. Being needed. It feels like that we have some importance, some relevance. It feels like meaning for us. And then sometimes through illness, through burnout or through loss, life asks us to stop. Or at least take a pause. Not gently, but clearly. Today, on

00:00:56 Sana: this episode of Inner Light with your host Sana, we are sitting inside one of those puzzles. Our guest, chips Schaul, spent decades moving fast, working with leaders, building impact, staying in motion until a stroke forced him into stillness. Recovery didn't just reshape his body, but it reshaped how he understands leadership purpose and what it actually means to live sustainably. And listeners along the way, something unexpected enters. He entered his healing journey craft, working with his hands, creating slowly not to produce but to recover presence, patience and a relationship with himself that had been missing. So let me tell you, this conversation isn't about inspiration or heroic comebacks. It is about what happens when your older identity no longer fits and you have to listen differently. So I'm really glad. I'm really thankful you are here. And yes, let's get started with this conversation.

00:02:11 Chip Scholz: Thank you so much.

00:02:13 Sana: Great. Um, so, Chip, um, let's rewind everything even before the stroke. Because before that, your life and work, it was built around momentum. I mean, I can actually kind of, you know, picture it like coaching. There's travel, there's responsibility. It's always go, go, go forward motion. But when the stroke happened, what what was the first internal loss that you noticed or you felt before the physical recovery even began?

00:02:45 Chip Scholz: Well, it was it was really interesting to be inside the stroke. And, uh, you know, it happened probably early in the morning before I woke up. Um, and I didn't really recognize what was happening to me. I taught a class. I was, uh, I was at a client's office and and taught a class in the morning. And, uh, it wasn't until after, uh, you know, just about lunchtime that I recognized I recognize something really bad was happening. And, uh, and so, you know, I think it had a lot of, of physical impact on me because of that, uh, of that lag in time. Um, what what strikes you first is, is that life will never be the same.

00:03:31 Sana: Um.

00:03:32 Chip Scholz: And, uh, and that that's what that's what struck me is, is that life will never be the same. Um, you know, whether you call that a tap on the shoulder from God or you call that, uh, um, you know, wake up call or whatever, um, you know, it's it's just that life is going to be different. And, you know, one of one of the things that, uh, that I've learned out of that is that life is always different. Yeah. You know, it doesn't matter whether we wake up in the morning with a pain in our shoulder, or we wake up in the morning to a new day, a new client or whatever. It's, uh, it's still, you know, it's still going to be different. And, uh, and that's that's what I've really learned from that. Um, but, um, anyway, you're going to ask the next question.

00:04:26 Sana: No, but one thing I can I can say. I mean, first of all, I really appreciate you sharing that because and I keep on saying this because this is something that I've learned through so many conversations on all of our podcasts that, you know, people have this, um, kind of a very weird connotation attached with vulnerability. Um, they do not want to, especially in the leadership circles. We do not want to even think about being vulnerable or emotional or empathetic, because the kind of means weakness, because leadership cannot be attached with anything remotely related to weakness. But I appreciate you because there is a courage in sharing your most vulnerable moments, or the darkest moments or the moments where, you know, it's like this split second realization that you know something is not aligned, something is going wrong and I have to take charge of it and get this thing set right.

00:05:28 Chip Scholz: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's, uh, it's wild. I, you know, one of the things that came out of the stroke is, uh, um, uh, a firm belief that that failure is not an option. And let me explain that we fail all the time. I mean, there are things that we fail at at every, every day, but, um. But I wasn't going to give in. I wasn't going to give in to to, um, the physical, uh, the physical portion of the stroke. Um, although I do have to tell you, speaking of vulnerability, one of the things that people don't tell you about a stroke is that the, um, uh, the, um, emotional wreckage is, is especially poignant. It really, really plays, um, plays a problem with your emotions. And so my emotions were all messed up coming out of the stroke. You know, I'd be watching a commercial and they have puppies in the commercial and I start crying. Um, and that that has still continued to this day. Um, and in fact, uh, I was so anxious for the first few years after the stroke that I finally saw some help and, uh, and hired a therapist and went to a therapist for about a year to, to get my anxiety under control to, to learn ways to keep the anxiety under control. And, uh, um, and, you know, I don't I don't think that that your audience may know how much the emotional wreckage is, uh, is present.

00:07:08 Sana: Um, yeah. Yeah. And I think it's sometimes difficult to explain in words how much of the emotional wreckage it can have only you know when physically you go through that. So I really appreciate you sharing that. And um, um, I also think that this wasn't just a medical interruption. It, uh, definitely is an identity rupture. Like not able not being able to rely on your body or mind the way you used to. It can. It can quietly dismantle how you see yourself. I mean, you know, we we fear about aging. We feel that, you know, once we are, uh, in our late thirties or forties, our, um, that charisma or that entire enthusiasm or zeal, it will get reduced. And people may not feel the need for us, especially in workplaces and in the professional world. So, yeah, I think conversations around this should definitely be more and more encouraged.

00:08:18 Chip Scholz: Yeah. Yeah. You know, here's here's the interesting part I think, is that, you know, I had some deficits coming out of the stroke. Obviously we talked about the emotional ones, but physically I was paralyzed on my right side. Um, I was unable to find language. My cognition was not as good as it is. It was as it could have been. Um, before the stroke, I was reading a couple books a week. Um, after the stroke, I could hardly read a paragraph. Um, before the stroke, I was able to put two and two together and come up with, you know, twenty two instead of instead of four. I just made all kinds of connections, and I lost that in the stroke. And, uh, um, so I was slowly but surely gaining those back. And, uh, in about three months later, I was physically better. My cognition still wasn't where it should be. And, uh, and my speech certainly wasn't. And, you know, for for somebody who speaks for a living, to have your speech impacted is is a pretty critical thing. So I went to the doctor and the doctor said, um, Chip, I'm sorry to tell you this, but, um, you know, after three months, uh, you've probably gotten all you're going to get back. Oh, and and first of all, I can't believe I stayed with that doctor. But second of all, um, what a what a horrible, limiting view to to take to tell someone that, hey, that's all you got. So don't even worry about trying to, uh, trying to get anymore and, uh, um, you know, that's it improved over the year. I started reading again, I started I was walking, I was walking so much. But here's here's the, um, to me, um, there was a stat that came out a few years ago. Um, doctor Dean O'Dell said that ninety percent of heart patients were either back on the table or dead in three years Because they didn't change their ways.

00:10:21 Sana: Mhm.

00:10:23 Chip Scholz: And so for me that became the challenge. Um I was severely overweight. I lost one hundred and ten pounds after uh, after the stroke. Um I started walking and uh. Oh my goodness I, I walked three thousand five hundred miles in the, in the first two years after, uh, after the stroke. So I changed my ways. I did did what I needed to do, and everything came back. And then I was introduced to the lathe and and to woodturning and that that changed everything.

00:10:56 Sana: That's really good to know. And that is, I think, a very crucial, crucial, very important point. Um, because I think it kind of. Um, it kind of portrays the importance of not just only the power of spirit, but, you know, taking some actions in there, just, you know, thinking or manifesting it won't work. You have to take some action in there. Um, otherwise, it's always easy. Easy to dismiss. Even your lab reports or doctor's reports as well. But there's definitely something there.

00:11:32 Chip Scholz: Well, yeah, it doesn't do you any good to say failure is not an option without putting some steel behind it.

00:11:38 Speaker 3: Yeah. Of course.

00:11:41 Sana: Um, and, um, let's talk about craft, because that is something I also personally am very curious. You know, like how you described and you mentioned just now about lathe and, and woodworking here, like working with your hands. Um, it, it you know, it's definitely, I would say therapeutic, but for you, you know, not therapeutic. No productivity here, but just that, you know, creation, that creativity thing, that essence of creativity in here. Um, what what did craft give you that traditional recovery methods couldn't.

00:12:17 Chip Scholz: Um, it gave me something to concentrate on because you really have to concentrate when you've got a chunk of spinning wood that can take your head off. So you really have to pay attention. You have to do things safely. And I didn't do things safely to begin with, and I got away with it. But, uh, I was pretty lucky. Um, you know, the big thing is, is that I've always wanted to get better at whatever I was doing. And, uh, and to get better at, at the woodturning craft, um, is not something you can do in a day or a week or a month. It's something that that happens over time. It happens over the long term. And I think to me, woodturning is is intellectually fascinating because because of the concentration that's required. And you have to think your way through, um, situations and problems that, uh, you can't just go and throw a piece of wood on the lathe and turn something out. You've got to actually think your way through it. So, you know, from from not just the therapeutic but the intellectual curiosity, the, um, the ability. And, you know, here's here's the other thing. It's the movement of your body. Yeah. And the hand-eye coordination that it takes to to do to work on a piece. I mean, you can't just throw a piece of wood on and and just go after it. You've got to you've got to think your way through it and move your body in a specific way. And in that body movement, it's there's so much there's so much piece in that body movement.

00:14:02 Speaker 3: Yeah, I can imagine that. I can imagine.

00:14:04 Sana: That because there is something powerful about creating that tool, not worrying about that. You know, it's a performance without an audience. I mean, it It bypasses the thinking mind. And, you know, it lets the body participate in healing. I mean, you know that somebody is judging you or is analyzing your assessing you. Um, just, you know, the, um, you know, people say that the right and the left brain, it's coordinating your body, mind, soul. Every every component is like, you know, perfectly blending in there. So I can feel that. Definitely. Chip. Um, and, um, from here, um, I kind of, um, think it's a very important part of healing that needs to be talked about. Like, you know, there is a narrative chip that healing should always, um, feel calming, grounding, peaceful. But then for many peoples, slowing down, slowing down, actually, it brings discomfort, restlessness or, you know, grief to the surface. Um, so for you, did Kraft always feel soothing or were there moments, you know, when you just wanted to shout out loud or cry, or it exposed emotions that you had been avoiding?

00:15:30 Chip Scholz: You know, it's that's a great question. Thank you for asking it. Um, one of the one of the interesting parts to me is that I only had one woe is me moment that I remember.

00:15:42 Speaker 3: Okay.

00:15:43 Chip Scholz: Um, you know, why me, Lord? And, uh, and so I only remember having one, and I just put it out in my mind because, again, the whole thing is I wanted to do better. I wanted to be better. I wanted to to live a better life. And, uh, and what that meant is, you know, getting good sleep at night. Um, what that meant is eating the right ways. Uh, what that meant is, uh, is being better at whatever I was doing and craft, um, woodturning specifically, uh, was a way of doing that because, you know, here's here's to me, I really don't would turn just for myself. I would turn for my family. And believe me, if you look around our house, um, we've got probably. I counted them the other day. We've got like, ninety eight wood turned objects in, in just a small portion of the house, you know, and it is because because I come in, um, from the shop and, uh, my first thing is show and tell for, for my wife, you know, because I, I always, I always look for her approval. I look, I look to her to, to say, you know, hey, you could have done this better or. Hey, um, you know, um, did you think about this or. Hey, this is a beautiful piece. And, uh, um, and, you know, I really don't would turn for other people as much as I would turn for myself and for my wife.

00:17:19 Sana: That's so lovely to know. That's really lovely to know. Yes. And and, um. It's it's it. Honestly, I think, um, this was a really, really honest answer because it really matters. Like, it's not about that. You know, you need to run away from discomfort in order to heal, but at least you are staying present through it. Um, and of course, you have your support of your wife and for your loved ones. I think that is something very, very powerful, which I believe in today's day and age is so, so much more needed for all of us.

00:17:59 Chip Scholz: Yeah. Yeah. You know, one of the biggest things coming out of a life altering event, um, you know, call it, um, a health crisis or whatever, um, heart attack or stroke or any, any kind of a life altering event. Um, is is there so much depression that comes out of it? There is so much feeling of helplessness, hopelessness, etc. and uh, um, and, you know, for, for, especially for, for us, um, it's a feeling of, of. Okay, so I have to acknowledge my mortality.

00:18:39 Speaker 3: Um.

00:18:40 Chip Scholz: And that is so difficult to do, to acknowledge that we are mortal to that, that we're not going to live forever. Um, you know, um, my, uh, my parents. I don't know if I told you this, but my parents were young when they died. They died at fifty one. My dad died of fifty one. My mom died of fifty six. And, uh, um, and, you know, so I always had the feeling that that I really wasn't going to live that long. And, uh, so the stroke happened. I was I was fifty five years old. It happened fourteen years ago. So you can do the math, but, uh, um, it's, uh, it's such a humbling feeling and it's like, oh, wow, I didn't die. And that became that became the hopeful part is, I didn't die. You know, I'm still around. And so I marvel every day that I wake up that that, uh, I have not, uh, I have not died, um, you know, and it, you know, that's I recognize that that will happen someday, but not this day.

00:19:50 Sana: God bless that. um, before we conclude, I think especially for leaders, I mean, you mentioned about mortality, and there was one episode on another podcast that I, um, did with another guest where we were specifically we were discussing about, uh, you know, uh, death and mortality, you know, especially in the leadership circles, that how it is sometimes talked about like how, you know, um, the mortality awareness is. So before we wrap up, my last question is, uh, somewhere connected with that, like, you know, some people here slow down. Um, and they translate it to as, you know, do less matter less? Um, but you rebuilt your coaching practice with more intention. Um, not necessarily that the impact got lessened, but, um, now, you know the value here of slowing down. How do you now define success in a way that honors your limits without shrinking your contribution, or without making you feel that you know you are now less important?

00:21:02 Chip Scholz: Um, I'll answer that in two ways. First, first of all, I've got a book coming out next month, um, in March, and, uh, it's called Every Dog Has Its Day. And the the title is really important to me because I really believe that. And every dog has its day has a double meaning. Um, one is that everybody gets their fifteen minutes of fame. I mean, whether it's you doing a podcast or me writing a book or whatever, but everybody gets their fifteen minutes of fame, everybody gets their recognition. And in the world and, you know, with social media, it makes it even crazier. But, um, the other meaning is, um, there's a great Latin phrase, memento mori, and it means remember your death. And, um, I think it was Marcus Aurelius, or maybe Epictetus who said it. And, uh, um, and so remembering your death, remembering that you will someday die, um, it's it's not meant to be, you know, something that you fear. It's meant to be grounding. It's meant to be humbling. It's meant to be, uh, to be to give you a different perspective of what you're doing. So, you know, I've thought about that a long time, and it wasn't something that I just wrote out of, uh, you know, out of a phrase that I heard yesterday. I've been thinking about that a long time. And, you know, when you have an event that that puts you there, um, you realize that that someday you'll die. And so it's how do you how do you live every day? And you can say with intention, but how do you live every day, um, to make things better than it was the day before. And so that that affected my coaching practice, that affected my leadership style, that affected everything. So where where I was being performative before I was, I was, you know, I really meant it, you know, um, I, I was a lot more sincere. And it wasn't that I was insincere before. It's just I was being performative. You know, I was I was performing and instead of instead of having thoughtful conversations. And that's been the biggest difference.

00:23:22 Sana: Makes sense. Absolutely. Makes sense. Ship. Okay, so first of all, congratulations for your upcoming, uh, book ship. And of course, if our listeners, they would like to get a hold of it or maybe preorder it, and they would also like to connect with you, um, personally, what would be the easiest way?

00:23:43 Chip Scholz: Well, the easiest way is, uh, is my email address is chip at Shoals Associates. Com um, my website is Shoals Associates. And, um, certainly, uh, I've got a book that came out in October that's available on Amazon. The, uh, the next one will be as well. And, um, you know, I would love to hear from people, I'd love to hear from listeners, and I'd love to hear, um, what ways? uh, events have changed your life.

00:24:15 Sana: Amazing. That's amazing. Listeners. You all know I'm definitely going to put all the links and details into the show notes, so just refer to them, find them attached along with this episode on whichever platform you are listening to your Inner Life podcast right now. Um, and um, as we, as we wrap up, um, you know, listeners, what I feel or what I, what stays with me from this conversation is not the stroke itself or, um, the fear, but then what? It actually revealed that healing it doesn't always come from effort. Slowing down doesn't erase your purpose. It often clarifies it and that working with our hands, of course, it can sometimes reach places our words never could. So to me, listeners, Chip story isn't a prescription. It's an invitation for all of us to listen to the body before it has to shout, redefine success before it costs us our health. To consider that leadership and life is shaped less by grand moments, and those fifteen minutes of fame, and more by the quiet choices we make when nobody is watching. And thank you so much for being open, candid, practical, hopeful, and thank you for the work that you're doing.

00:25:41 Chip Scholz: Thank you very much. I really appreciate being a guest. And, and, uh, um, I wish you a lot of blessings.

00:25:48 Sana: Thank you so much. Thank you so much. And to all the listeners, if life has asked you to pause, even unwillingly, may you find something small, steady and human to hold on to. This is your host. I'll catch you in the next episode of Inner Light. Stay tuned. Thank you.