One of our clients, before he started with us, had 250 sales calls in a year.

So that's two calls every three days.

And he closed below 10%, generating less than 20 clients.

Painful.

So today we're going to have a chat about low conversion rates and what to do about them.

Yeah.

And how we can make sure that the time that we invest in sales calls is not time wasted, but.

But business generated.

Yeah, absolutely.

So I think first of all, maybe it's a good thing to just talk about, like, what should I expect to have?

Like, what is the benchmark?

Because I think it's really hard for someone to know, like, what should I have?

Is that good or bad?

What I'm having, my experience is that a lot of people are focusing on, like just getting more sales calls, like really focusing hard on getting sales calls.

I just need more sales calls.

And if the conversion rate is less than 10%, less than 15%, I would have a red flag there and start fixing that before I start getting more sales calls.

Absolutely.

And like, if you're doing below €10,000 a year and you haven't had any help setting your funnel up, if you have like 15% is a probable conversion rate, it's not uncommon for people out there.

So when you, when you benchmark against people who are hassling or struggling, like yourself, or if you're in that place, if you're benchmarking towards people who are in a similar situation, they're going to say like, yeah, well, 15%, that's, that's like, it's pretty okay.

Yeah.

The problem with 15% is, number one, it's going to drain you, it's going to exhaust you because you're going to have so many people going through the funnel and so much time spent with hearing people saying no and hearing their objections without ever being able to handle those objections, ever really being able to have those good quality conversations with a lot of people who have.

Who's interested.

And I know it from my own journey when I've done sales calls.

And this was more not because I had so many sales calls, because I had like a super sufficient funnel, but because, like when I was working in sales in the beginning, I remember that I did so many sales calls and were kind of okay with them not saying yes because to me it was, it was like my training, it was like, I need to do the sales calls.

Okay.

It doesn't matter if they say no.

If they say no, it just means that I'm one step closer to a yes and I Fed myself with a positive kind of mindset.

But if I were to know then what I know today, then I realized that it's.

There are so many reasons to why I'm not getting the sales.

There are so many reasons to why I'm not closing them.

There's so many reasons to why I'm still drawing a blank and spending so much time without sufficient results.

I'm kind of trying to not give in too much of like what is the problem?

Specifically because there is two different problems.

One of them is going to be your stamina, like your emotions and the personal experience.

And the other one is to be the business outcome or the business, the effect that it has on the business.

If I were to ask you, if you were to dig into the problem, what would you like, how would you describe it?

Yeah.

Well, I think a misconception there is out there is that if just people book sales calls, it means they're ready to buy.

Yeah.

And that I think people are chasing sales calls as that is the key.

I just need sales calls.

So I think the focus is just completely wrong because if your focus is just.

And I can, I can understand why this happens because why if you go around on social media and you look into the ads you're getting or even worse, looking into that cold DMing box that says like request folder you have in your DMs, you can see how many offers coaches out there getting from agencies or set up people who saying hey, we can help you book this many calls.

You can get this many calls.

Like that's the most used, most common offer.

These people are selling into coaches that you will get X amount of calls into your calendar.

Into your calendar.

Yeah.

So they also like driving this.

Sorry.

Adding to that and, and we can have opinions about it but I, I say that it's a bit dirty.

But they say qualified calls.

Yeah.

But they're selling an, an outcome of qualified calls without the person understanding what is a qualified call.

Yeah, qualified is also.

It's not like yes or no, it's a scale from, from like stone cold to.

To.

Or like, like really icy glacier cold.

Yeah.

To.

To red hot and ready to buy.

Yeah.

On the scale between, like where are they when they come to a call?

So when they say qualified it doesn't really mean anything.

But that's also the problem if you.

Get stuck in the trap of well, I'm not getting enough clients.

I think most coaches just go to you, well, I need, I need to book more calls.

There's something with my marketing I need to have a better funnel.

So I calls.

But it doesn't matter how great allegiant funnel you have if your sales funnel is just completely broken and you're not converting those people.

So you should absolutely start by focusing on converting.

And I think we started saying about like looking into benchmarks.

It's really hard because there's a lot of different benchmarks depending on where you are in your business.

And also what like how known you are, what like how big your brand is.

Like most people are just starting up doing less than 10k month consistently.

Well, they will naturally have a less conversion rate but they should be able to get to 40%.

Everyone should be able to get to that point because otherwise there's something with the funnel or the client journey that is they're not taken care of.

And that's a part of the sales funnel.

Yeah.

And I was especially when we are at a plateau, which means that when we've reached a certain point in our business when everything is working but we don't know how to grow.

Yeah.

40% and then we invest and say hey, we want to scale, we want to do more.

So we simplify and we change the approach slightly.

Yeah.

Well then you can see a different result.

But 40% is the benchmark.

40% is the benchmark has always been the benchmark with our clients.

Yeah.

Because we need to have that.

I don't know if I interrupted you and was definitely not my intention, but we can see two things.

Number one, obvious, if you have a low conversion rate, your sales funnel is broken.

Yeah.

But I would also say that your marketing is.

The marketing funnel is also broken.

Absolutely.

Because the marketing is not just designed to have people recognize your existence.

Your marketing funnel should also build the other two components of.

Of marketing that is like marketing one on one.

We need to build that like and trust factor in the marketing as well.

Yeah.

So in the marketing we build the context.

We build kind of the box of like here is what we do in our store when we're talking about like social media and being visible on like out there in the Somi world.

So when we are visible online, it's not just creating recognition.

Oh, I've seen that guy before.

I've seen that girl before.

Oh, I know that business.

Or I've heard something about that.

Because that is just step number one.

The second step of marketing is making sure that they stay and they consume more stuff and that they actually become interested.

So the sales funnel doesn't start where the marketing funnel ends.

They overlap Each other, like completely.

If you're struggling in sales, there's also a problem with your marketing.

Your marketing should support your sales.

It should make sales way easier.

Yeah.

So if this is the first podcast episode that you're listening to, you can just know that I will choose the way of saying a thing that takes 50 sentences and Sunny will say it in one.

So I will speak and then San will clarify quickly.

That's great.

It's just the way it is.

I mean, the problem doing this, because if we, if we agree that 40% is a good benchmark, it doesn't mean that you should have 40% from the beginning.

If it means that that's what you should get up to as a benchmark where you should be able to put.

So it's not like in the first two months if you're not at 40%, you have a big problem because you probably need to train like your skill sets at doing a sales calls, of course, and doing objection handling and how to qualify and all of these like different like components you need to have in a.

In the sales funnel.

You need to train all of these ones.

So you need to do a hell of a lot of sales calls to just figure out what's wrong.

And that's about taking the data.

The problem with not fixing that and getting stuck at these places is that we're troubleshooting the wrong place.

I think that's the worst thing I see that is happening.

Can you just say what does that mean in terms of, of like business efficiency?

Yeah, it means that if I decide what my problem is and I decide the.

It's the make the wrong decision.

If I, I don't know how to troubleshoot in that.

That's literally if you don't have the experience, if you haven't built that business you were trying to build, if you haven't had those sales that you want to have and you probably do not have the skills and the experience to troubleshoot and discover what exactly is the problem.

Like, take an example.

Could be that, oh, I think that there was something wrong with this lead.

Oh, it was just the wrong lead.

It might be.

It might also not be.

It might just be that you did not handle pre.

Handle and, and do stuff like that before the call.

You didn't have them see enough.

You didn't remove the, the obstacles for them or the resistance in them before.

So there was.

I think the biggest problem is that we are not.

If you're not staying in course and if you believe it's about them, it's about the leads.

It's about that thing.

And you believe it's not about you.

Well, yeah.

You.

You're gonna be struggling for a long time.

Yeah.

So troubleshooting in the wrong place.

If I were to try to become you for a second and say the same thing in one sentence, troubleshooting.

And it's not going to be you, because I'm gonna run with a metaphor, and you don't do that.

So that's 100 me.

But troubleshooting in the wrong place is kind of like buying a new car every time you run out of gasoline.

Yeah.

It's going to turn very expensive very fast.

Instead of just realizing, oh, it's not a problem with the car.

I just need to refill it with gas.

And if we take that back to coaching, what happens literally is that, oh, my funnel is broken.

Yeah.

I'll throw it out and I need to do another strategy.

Yeah.

Instead of just figuring out what is.

Is it exactly in the funnel that is broken and fix that thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you said something else that I love so much that is hard when it's challenging and it's staying in costs.

Yeah.

Deciding to be the reason for all outcomes in the actions that I'm taking, and that's personal development at its biggest because it's so important to realize that you are the one factor that you can always shape and reconstruct in a way so that it helps you and gives you a better business or gives you a better outcome or gives you a better quality of life or whatever it is.

But the moment we're in a challenging spot, the skill set of being able to spot what is.

Cause at this very moment, fast.

It takes training and it takes effort.

And I'm not going to say that it's going to.

It's always going to be easy and nice, but it's always going to keep you in a place where you feel set free.

Yeah.

And I want to emphasize being feel set free, which means that you're going to have all the freedom that you desire in your life the moment you just choose to be the reason for all outcomes in your life, good and bad.

Definitely.

So if you have this very low conversion rate, I think the biggest problem that actually happens is, first of all, it leads.

Leads to burnout due to emotional breakdown.

Like, if you feel like you've done everything you can do and it still feels like, oh, I'm getting in hundreds of people to a webinar.

I'm getting so many sales calls, and I'm still not getting in those clients.

It's tearing down your confidence as well, because you start, like, doubting, well, they don't like my offer, they don't like my thing, they don't like me, they don't like this, and I can't do it.

Will I ever be able to make it in my business?

Maybe I should go and find a job.

And it kind of spirals getting into this negativity.

So if we are to find, like, what should we be doing to troubleshoot?

Where should we, like, it's hard to troubleshoot for a group of people listening to a podcast.

But what could be, like, some good places to start looking?

Well, first of all, we want to kill the dream of, like, I just want to create a business and I set up a web page and if I have a web page and there is a button and like, if I just funnel people or send traffic to that web page, I'm going to get clients.

Yeah, that is a beautiful dream.

I don't think I met anyone who don't want to have that funnel.

Yeah, of course everyone would like it.

And how much would you pay for that funnel?

Yeah, we need to make that funnel.

So everyone could just pay a lot of money to get that funnel.

I want that funnel.

Absolutely.

But the reality is, and here's the thing, where do we get that idea from?

We get that idea from the biggest brands.

There is like, looking at, in the personal development space, coaching space.

We can look at Tony Robbins, we can look at Russell Branson.

We can look at, you know, the people who have a really big brand.

Yeah.

And there are tons more, obviously.

But when, when we're looking at these people.

Yeah, but their brand is selling for them.

And it's not by coincidence that they got to that place and they still have sales processes.

Yeah.

It's not like that's the only thing that exists.

And what we need to realize is, so where does the sale happen if your brand isn't big enough?

Where it happens in the relationship that you can build with other people.

And that is supposed to be done in your marketing funnel and in your sales funnel.

So if we were to start to like, so where do I start navigating this?

Okay, let's start looking at your audience.

Let's start looking at the quality of the relationship of the 10 people that you last saw on sales calls.

If you're getting clients with consistency right now, what do all of the people have in common that says, yes, they related to you and they got an idea of who you are?

And they synced with you.

So they were kind of like, with the risk of sounding a little bit like a surfer dude, but they were vibing with you.

You know, I like this.

I hate this one.

I don't even know how to do it.

I.

Maybe I did it wr.

Cool.

When they're sinking with you and feel like, hey, we're having a good time, what we're doing right now is like, it's a good quality conversation.

I like you.

I like the thing you've built.

The system that takes your people to the other side of.

Of the outcome that I desire.

And I want to go for it.

I want to commit to myself and I want to join you in your mission of.

Of moving your people towards this outcome.

There you have it.

That's a sale.

If we're looking at the foundation, there need to be trust in three different parts.

I just want to elicit a little bit more on that.

Because if we are trying to troubleshoot sales calls that are not converting.

First question is the people you have on sales calls, is it the right people?

Do you see them?

Not.

Not like they said yes or no.

And they said a lot of different things.

Do you see they're good fit?

Are they the right people?

Because we need to know, are we attracting the right people?

Because if not, we need to go further back into our funnel and see who is it we're attracting, who are to.

Then it's our messaging we need to look at.

If we believe it's not the right people, go back, fix that.

If we believe, yes, it was the right people, great.

We need to understand what was the.

Like, what was the know about.

What was the objection?

Yeah, we need to have that data.

It's not that.

Oh, they didn't buy.

Yeah, no, they didn't buy.

But why didn't they buy?

We need to have that data.

We need to understand that data because that tells us a lot about what exactly is the problem?

Is it so that they were not qualified before?

So they were not ready to buy?

Yeah.

Or they didn't know why, what they.

Showed up for, didn't they know?

Like, this was a sage call.

That might sound weird, but it's like it's super normal.

Yeah.

So here's what happens.

Why do people book a call that is a sales call?

They don't book it because they've rationally gone through all the different options and decided that, yep, I'm gonna spend my time being sold something.

They don't think that way.

They don't look to buy Stuff.

They are.

Yeah.

No, what they're doing is they are getting in sync with an emotion that they feel left, right up or down, it's an emotion.

We don't know why they booked unless we figure that out.

What, like, what made us sit here?

Why, why, why are we on this call?

And that might not be the first question you ask straight out of the gate because it kind of puts a.

Like if they don't trust that your intention is all right, they might feel that you're questioning them or interrogating them.

So.

But we need to know why did we end up at this place?

Yeah.

You mentioned that we need to collect data.

We need to understand what is the reason to why they're not moving on.

But also, we also need to understand is it the right person people that I have on the calls?

Yeah.

Because of half of the calls that you have are people that aren't interested in the outcome that your coaching provides.

Yeah.

Then you can literally double your conversion rate from one day to another with very simple means.

Yeah.

And even worse, if half of the people that are booked in scheduled info sales call if they're not even showing up.

If you have a con like show up rate on 10, 20%, there's something in that funnel that there was.

It was not interesting enough.

They were not hooked enough, or they were not qualified enough.

Yeah.

Before getting to the sales call, that needs to be an irresistible offer.

Every time we need to move people from one step to another step inside our fund, there need to be an irresistible offer to get to the next step.

Yeah.

And that needs to be adapted to the right to avatar.

Yeah.

Too fast though.

I really want to emphasize that it needs to be irresistible offer between every step of the.

Of the funnel.

Super important.

What is an irresistible offer?

It's an offer that they can't refuse.

If they're the right person.

Yeah.

If they're the right person.

Just as important.

But when you're figuring out your irresistible offers, it's.

It's kind of like.

Like Hans and Gretel, you know, the breadcrumbs leading them to the end destination.

And we need to be creative with that, but we need to be creative without creating complexity.

Yeah.

And that is complexity in itself, especially when we're starting out to figure this out.

So where do we see this the most in a funnel?

We see this with a low conversion rate, low show up rate.

We see this in an ad funnel where we're funneling cold enough funnels.

Yeah.

Well, so.

And anyone that sees.

Yeah.

Anyone that Sees you kind of for the first time.

That's where we're going to get, get these kind of, of inconsistent data where, where, where it could be a huge show up rate for a few days and then zero.

Okay.

It was the right person.

They did have a problem we could solve.

But they still didn't say yes.

Then it can be different things.

And I think that's where you were at.

Because if it's the right person they're looking for the help that you could provide.

There can only be one of three things why they would not buy.

Yeah.

And there are literally three things that needs for any sales to ever happen.

And it needs.

All of them are based on trust.

So they need to trust you as a coach.

They need to trust your program or your system or the process that you've created that.

They need to trust that that process will take me to that end outcome.

And the biggest one is that they need to trust themselves.

Because why are we in the space of coaching?

We're in the space of coaching because we want to help people.

No matter what niche we're in, we want to help people to generate or create an outcome that they have never created before for themselves.

Yeah.

And it could be the first authentic loving relationship as well as the first €10,000, €30,000 in their business.

It doesn't matter what it is.

It's always an outcome that they don't know how to figure out themselves.

And with that comes doubt.

Self doubt.

Like I'm, I've not.

I've never done this.

Will I be able to.

And as an adult, like it's very easy to go to the place of being pessimistic.

Looking at yourself or myself and just thinking I'm not sure if I can.

And when we are in that place, we need to be the bridge between their self confidence and their willingness to commit.

Even though it's scary.

And that's where you see a lot of the objections.

And if they don't trust you and if they don't trust your program, I would say like don't bother.

So how do we fix it though?

Because we do.

Yeah.

It's fixable.

But we do not fix it because we built it before.

So when we get to the point where they need to trust us is where we give the final offer for them to kind of take that step and move into our program.

Then we should already make sure that that is established.

Yeah.

So where do we fix that?

They trust us.

We fix that in the marketing before it's listed.

Everything they see in the funnel leading there.

Yeah, but it's especially how you run the C school, like how you do the C school, how you do create rapport, how you connect with them, how you understand them, how you speak to them, how you frame the call and all of that, that how well.

And how well you listen to where they are.

Exactly.

Because if you can paint the picture back to them the way they say that it without too many like own interpretations or nuances, then they're going to realize that you're actually paying attention.

And step number two, trust the process or the program you have.

Now a big part of that is, I would say the majority of that is absolutely also what you've been showing.

So you've been showing a lot of proof to them that they can trust it all the way through the funnel leading up to where they're sitting right now.

But your offer, if you have a offer, you're going to have a hard time selling, especially these days.

You need to have great offers, you need to have a great guarantee, you need to be able to help them, support them to make that great decision.

It needs to be a great offer.

But it's also the way you present your offer.

Yeah, absolutely.

How you present that during the call.

So that's all about giving trust in the process and the program.

They need to trust and believe this will help me get what I want.

And it's easier for them to trust your process if they trust you completely.

So if you build a skill set to, to help people trust you, it's going to be way easier to sell in your process.

Now as you're doing this, the more clients you get and the more client results that you get, the client results will sell it for you because you can start sharing case studies and stories and you can do this in the marketing, you can use this as metaphor in the sales calls.

I've literally met X amount of people and let me just talk about George for a second.

He was in a similar place like you and for him it was like this and it's really easy to give away with a non sleazy kind of presentation.

And that is so important because what is sales for me, sales is the most beautiful gift that we can give other people because it's an investment we make in human beings where we are showing them something that is desirable for them.

So that's the second one, the third one was trust in themselves.

And that like helping them to get trust in themselves is about having first of all trust that they, they have you at their side.

So they can trust themselves.

It's about how you present your offer, that you build an offer where they can trust themselves, like getting the outcome in that offer and then of course your coaching skills.

Because if there's an objection handing at this point, you of course want to know how to objection handle on a call.

And you need to understand like they will probably say I don't have the money or it's not the right time or something else.

But one should start digging down and find out what's the real course.

Because these other ones might just be a cover up.

And it usually is.

And I want to say if you're measuring data and everyone says, sorry, this is just super important so I'm going to stick it in.

If you're measuring your data of the most common objections that you hear, and the most common objection you hear is money.

And the way that you handle that is by lowering your price, you're doing it completely wrong.

Then you're just, then you're fighting a game you don't want to fight because there's always, you know, don't compete to be the cheapest.

There is always someone willing to sell it for less than you.

Always.

Yeah.

Which means that we do not want to play that game.

And they don't trust themselves more because you have a lower price point.

It's not the price at all.

The price is still going to be the objection.

Yeah.

Because here's the reality.

When it comes to price, no one has excess money.

No matter if it's €10 or €5,000amonth, no one has excess money to buy something that they don't understand or that they understand but don't want.

Yeah.

So if you can describe it and present it for them in a way so that they can realize that, oh, this is a real value for money kind of, kind of question, then the money is going to be so much easier to handle.

And money is usually the easiest cover to go to because number one, people in general have a poor money mindset.

So they don't know how to figure out how to finance the stuff that they desire.

The other thing is that it's also culturally very simple because like you can't do much with that.

And if you feel like, and I'm not saying that the person being sold to is trying to fight off the.

Person selling, but it's an easy way to.

But it's three easy ones.

The money, the spouse.

I need to think about it.

Yeah.

But when it comes to money, it's not that they're Fighting with the person trying to sell it.

They are trying to fight with their own mind, trying to rationalize and figure out.

And the moment we put pressure to something that is important and we realize that there is a quick gateway out of my head right now to stop feeling this.

This uncomfortable sensation.

And it's like, oh, I don't have any money.

Okay, nice.

Then I don't need to be responsible for not getting the results and the outcome.

So like you said, there's the money, there is the spouse, and there is.

I need to think about it.

All of those three is never about any of those three.

So we need to find the real.

The real objection skills.

Yeah.

And here is how we do it.

Without going into a complete breakdown.

We're going to do that in another episode.

But here's how you do it.

You have a real conversation with a person because guess what?

One of you in the call is going to buy.

Either they are going to buy your program or you're going to buy their objections.

Don't buy their objections at face value.

Just investigate and be curious enough to talk to them about it.

So when you say you don't have any money, what does that mean?

And then continue that conversation to see what comes up.

So it's literally about your skills again, in objection handling and coaching.

This, this is the only place in a sales funnel where you use your coaching skills.

Yeah.

Like in the beginning of our journey, we had a great client and he had such a great, like, he was kind of like a.

Anytime he got an insight, his world turned upside down and he was like, oh, my God.

Yeah, I've never seen this before.

And one of the things that he shared into our business academy when he got the insight that like, all we need to do, all I need to do is to coach the person on the other side to a great decision.

Yeah.

Whatever that is.

Is it a yes?

Then I coach that person towards the yes is in a no.

Then I coach that person towards the no.

Because if it is a no, if it isn't a good fit, we can help them to figure that out.

Yeah.

If it's the right fit.

And if they, if they do want to join us and do want to hang out with us, if it actually is the perfect solution for them, well, then you can coach them to that yes, no matter the obstacles.

And of course, we need to be enough for them so that they dare to commit.

And the last part of the offer is the risk reward ratio.

If in order for us to be able to have a good offer, especially with the market looking like it does today.

We need to take care of the risk reward.

So the reward is clearly the outcome of, of joining your program.

But we also need to understand that there is a risk for them committing to themselves and also taking that step, joining the program.

And there are so many things that we can do to take care of that risk factor with adding guarantees, adding out specific outcomes, adding different, different circumstances.

That just helps them to see that.

Yeah, with this guarantee, I see, I can see myself going all the way and getting, getting to that outcome.

So if you like this episode, then.

You should have 40 conversion rate from now on.

That too.

But also subscribe to this channel and give us a comment or like so we know that you like this and make sure you follow us on our Instagram.

And by the way, I decided that couldn't we bring a little gift to give them?

Yeah, of course.

What are we gonna give?

Yeah.

Chocolate.

Chocolate.

If you add chocolate.

No, we will not.

No, we will not.

Okay, sorry.

We will put under here, we'll put a link to the sales frame call that we've been using to generate more than 6 million years in revenue.

But also our clients used to generate more than 20 million in revenue.

So use this framework for your next sales calls and that will probably help your conversion rate up.

It's all yours and it's really great.

And it focuses on making sure that the call is great.

So until we meet next time, we release new episodes every Wednesday.

We'll see you on social media.

Join us on Instagram.

Sam.