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You are a fellow Polyvagal nerd.

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You already understand the basic
idea of the autonomic nervous system.

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You know, the ans directly regulates our
abilities to connect with each other,

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to mobilize, to immobilize and more.

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Our state provides the foundations
for our thoughts, our emotions,

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our impulses, and our sensations.

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But you might not know about
vagal efficiency, which has

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been around for a few years.

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I believe.

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It's not something that we discuss within
the typical Polyvagal theory topics,

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but I think it's an important concept.

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So, if you're going to listen to this,
you are a serious polyvagal theory nerd.

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Most people at this point may
have turned this off by now.

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So it might just be you and me here.

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Get ready for probably the deepest
dive into the polyvagal theory nerdery

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that you have gone outside of Dr.

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Porges' work.

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My name's Justin Sunseri.

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I am a therapist, a coach, and the creator
of the polyvagal trauma relief system.

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Welcome to Stuck Not Broken, where
I typically teach you how to live

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with more calm, confidence, and
connection without the psychobabble.

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This episode's all about vegal efficiency.

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I want to teach you what it is
and how to get more of it even.

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So the first thing to actually
understand is the vagal brake.

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A really quick recap.

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Basically the vagal brake is the influence
of the safety state on your heart

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using the myelinated ventral pathways.

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From her book, polyvagal theory in
therapy, Deb Dana says "the vagal brake is

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designed to release and re-engage as a way
of responding to challenges while still

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maintaining ventral vagal regulation.

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Once the autonomic challenge is met
the vagal brake recovers, reengages

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and returns the system to balance."

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She goes on to say, "this is a commonly
experienced pattern throughout the

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course of a day as we energize to
meet the demands of the multiple

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and often conflicting needs dictated
by work and family schedules."

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And finally she says, "when the ventral
vagal system cannot meet the needs of

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safety- or for safety- the vagal brake
releases, allowing the sympathetic nervous

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system to come into full activation."

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long quote, but basically what that
means is that when the brake is active,

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The heart beats at a calmer pace.

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The vagal brake is important for
being calm, relaxed, for soothing

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other people through co-regulation.

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And when re when it's released, it allows
for mobilization or more of a sympathetic

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influence -flight of fight influence.

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And the way that we measure
that is through respiratory

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sinus arrhythmia or RSA.

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So the vagal brake is not like a thing.

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I don't want you to imagine that it's
a, like a flap or something like that.

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It's the influence of the safety state.

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Vagal efficiency is a metric for
the efficiency of the vagal brake.

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The vagal efficiency measures how
well the vagal brake is working.

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So let's understand more
about vagal efficiency.

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This is a measure of how well our body's
ventral vagal system, which is responsible

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for regulating the heart rate is working.

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So how well our safety state is working
at keeping our heart at a calmer pace.

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It tells us how efficiently our body
can adjust our heart rate in response.

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But more specifically, it tells us how
efficiently our body can adjust our heart

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rate in response to different situations.

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As a metaphor to understand
this better, imagine that our

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heart is like a car engine.

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When we need to slow down or relax,
the ventral vagus presses on the brake

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pedal or a metaphorical brake pedal,
which slows down our heart rate.

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This helps us to feel calm and relaxed
when the heart is at a calmer pace.

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On the other hand, when we need
to speed up or be more alert, the

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ventral vagus releases the brake
pedal allowing our heart rate to

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increase, and this helps us feel more
energized and ready to take action.

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So vagal efficiency is like
the responsiveness of the

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brake pedal in the car.

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If the brake pedal is very sensitive
and quickly adjust the speed of

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the car, we can say that the car
is highly efficient in braking.

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Similarly, if our ventral vagal system
is efficient, it means that it can

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quickly and accurately adjust our heart
rate to match the needs of our body.

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In other words, if the strength of
the safety states is strong enough, it

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is efficient in adjusting heart rate
to meet the needs of the environment.

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In contrast to that, if the brake
pedal in our car is slow to respond

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or doesn't work properly then that
car would have low efficiency.

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Similarly for us in our bodies, if
our ventral vagal safety system is

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not efficient, it may have trouble
regulating our heart rate effectively.

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This makes it difficult to both
calm down when needed, but also

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to become more alert when needed.

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So basically vagal efficiency as best
I understand it is like the efficiency

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metaphorically of the brake pedal in
a car determining how well our body's

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ventral vagal system can adjust our
heart rate in different situations.

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Okay, so you got it so far.

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The next question might be, well,
how has this stuff measured?

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Vaguely efficiency is evaluated
through the slope of the regression

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line between heart rate and
respiratory sinus arrhythmia.

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If you're like me, you
don't know what that means.

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So we just don't get that.

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But that's some sort of polyvagal research
kind of stuff, and I can't get deeper

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into it than that as of right now,
unfortunately, but that's the answer.

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But I do know that basically, vagal
efficiency, the way it's calculated,

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it tells us how effectively the vagal
brake can handle our heart rate based on

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what our body needs at any given moment.

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Porges and his polyvagal researchers
have some means of measuring these

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things that I honestly, I don't know how
they do it, but it has something to do

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with the respiratory sinus arrhythmia.

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And that's about as far as I can take it.

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The practical applications of vagal
efficiency are actually pretty diverse

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and there's some pretty darn interesting
possibilities for the future if we

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can use this as a measurement of vagal
brake strength in some sort of practical

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terms, it could be pretty darn useful.

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I don't think we're not quite there yet.

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I know that.

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But at some point, maybe this is
something that can be measured

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through our smartwatches.

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I have no idea.

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We can already measure like heart
rate, heart rate variability, our

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blood oxygenation, our watches can
measure that as well, so like I

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have no doubt that at some point
this will be pretty easy to measure.

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I don't know what that looks like.

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But regardless.

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It's already been used to evaluate
sleep states in newborns and to track

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the development of preterm infants.

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It might serve as an indicator of
dysautonomia, which is a condition

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characterized by impaired autonomic
nervous system functioning.

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Lower vagal efficiency has been studied in
individuals with a history of adversity.

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And it's been studied in those
with certain medical conditions,

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such as the hyper motility
subtype of Ehlers Danlos syndrome.

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All of this is from primary polyvagal
theory research papers, by the way.

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Vaguely efficiency could potentially
be a way of measuring or seeing

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what's happening ventral vagally
underneath these different groups

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that I've listed, but also maybe for
us someday through maybe like a more

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practical wearable that we could
wear to measure our vagal efficiency.

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So this could be a way
of measuring success.

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It's a way of objectively seeing like,
yes, your vagal efficiency is going up.

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I think these are the things we
can already measure subjectively.

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We can feel when we have
more safety state activation.

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When we feel more connected to the
present moment or to people in our lives.

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So we can feel those things.

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We can feel those changes, but this
is more of an objective measure

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that could be used to show someone
like, Hey, you are making progress.

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I know for me as a therapist, but
also with my trauma recovery courses,

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the Polyvagal trauma relief system,
I would love to be able to measure

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vagal efficiency, to have that
objective number, to give to somebody.

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Or they could, you know, get through
a wearable, to objectively see

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the progress that they're making.

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The people who joined my courses, they
already have a weaker vagal brake.

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And therefore I assume would have
a lower, lower of vagal efficiency.

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And through the courses and whatnot,
they can feel and notice change.

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But again, I think that objective measure
would be at least just really cool.

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And make it a lot more real.

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You know, just like losing weight.

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If your goal is to lose weight, you
can objectively measure that on a

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scale to validate your progress.

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But yeah, you could also do.

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You don't need to do so you
might look in the mirror and

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notice that you look different.

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You might notice you feel
different day-to-day.

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So there's play there's ways to validate
it without the measurement, but I think

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the measurement takes it to the next
level if that's something you want.

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The vagal efficiency, I
think, and I asked Dr.

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Porges this, when I
interviewed him in episode 201.

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This could be used as a predictor
for future health and even emotional

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regulation or behavioral concerns.

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Like what if we could use vagal efficiency
measurements at birth, or even throughout

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life during regular doctor visits.

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And we can see that someone's
vagal efficiency is way low.

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I don't know how else to put
it, but let's say it's way low.

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If we see that in a baby,
that's an opportunity to tell

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parents about how important it
is to have healthy attachment.

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And to meet the needs of their child.

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That's an opportunity to educate
and encourage them and give them

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resources in order to do that.

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As parents bond with their kids in
a more healthy way, my assumption

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would be that their vagal brake
strength would increase because their

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safety straight state is increases.

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If a parent were to somehow get that
message early on, hopefully they

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have it already, but realistically
that's not that's not everybody.

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So maybe there's a parent that's
open to like, oh, maybe I need to

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do something about myself in order
to help the future of my child.

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And again, hopefully we all
have that already, but we don't.

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So if that parent gets that message
early on and the doctor can say, Hey

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look, the vagal efficiency is really
concerning this going to lead to some

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future potential behavior problems,
potential health problems, potential

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emotional regulation problems.

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Maybe they could give that parent
those resources early on to help

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them form healthy attachments
with their child, their baby.

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So having that objective measurement to
give to a parent, you know, really early

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on, I don't know, maybe I think that
that could be a potential use of it.

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And then hopefully we would see better
health outcomes, not just for that

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child, but on a larger level as well,
especially if this is like something

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that could be easily used in the future.

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I don't know where they're, as far as
being able to measure a vagal efficiency

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efficiently for general population.

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I don't know.

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Something that I've found in my reading
of vagal efficiency is that there seems

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to be a correlation between positive
engagement and more vegal efficiency.

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And there's a correlation with quicker
respiratory sinus arrhythmia recovery.

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RSA is a measurement of ventral
vagal of safety state activation.

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So basically this is suggesting
that things that feel good

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correlate with more RSA.

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Things that feel good correlate
with more safety state activation.

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So attachments, a safe environment,
co-regulation all those things help to

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increase vagal brake strength and likely
would increase vagal efficiency as well.

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So to wrap us up, I know super
polyvagal nerdy kind of stuff.

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What can you do about
this in your daily life?

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You probably can't track your vagal
efficiency or your vagal brake

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strength directly, but you can notice
when you're in your safety state.

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You can practice moments of
mindfulness and connection every

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day, even with yourself or even
with the external environment.

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You can do that.

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You can practice being
in your safety state.

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You can do things that bring
you an overall experience of

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positivity and connection.

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As you practice these, they will
eventually increase your vagal

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brake strength and assumably
your vagal efficiency as well.

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So for you for today, I would
really encourage you to at least

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have micro moments of mindfulness.

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Micro moments of connection.

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Practice those as often as you can.

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Work on building the strength of your
safety state, therefore leading to a

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greater strength in your vagal brake,
and assumedly vagal efficiency as well.

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If you have no idea how to build
your vagal brake strength, or how to

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increase the strength of your safety
state., Or just how to feel calm and

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present and connected to the present
moment, and with yourself, I have a

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course called building safety anchors.

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It teaches you all those things that
you need to know about safety, how to

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access safety, and it gives you six
potential safety anchoring paths that

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you can utilize and practice daily.

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Building safety anchors is a part
of my total access membership.

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You could definitely buy it by itself.

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I recommend the total access membership.

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It's a subscription that gives you
total access to building safety

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anchors plus my two other trauma
recovery courses, plus my private

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community, which is pretty damn awesome.

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And in that private community, you
can chit chat with me in the forum,

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you could also show up to my twice
monthly meetups where I can answer

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all of your questions about Polyvagal
theory or how to get unstuck.

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So if you're ready to take that next step.

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Head to the link in the description.

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It is JustinLMFT.com/totalaccess.

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JustinLMFT.com/totalaccess.

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That is your personal invitation.

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I cannot wait to see you there.

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And of course I have
a nifty gifty for you.

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It is my polyvagal
theory and trauma ebook.

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It's called trauma and
the Polyvagal paradigm.

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It is a full on book.

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00:14:19,759 --> 00:14:22,759
It's not just like a little brochure
or pamphlet about the Polyvagal theory.

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It connects PVT to trauma
in a very deep dive.

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You can download that for free
when you sign up for my email list,

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follow the link in the description.

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Otherwise, thank you so much
for listening, fellow Stucknaut.

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I do hope.

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That this episode has been a
thought provoking, challenging,

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interesting resource for you and
your polyvagal nerdery developments.

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Bye.