Well, hello, everybody, and welcome to another amazing episode of our great podcast.

So I am your host, Jacqueline Strominger, and I have the amazing privilege to welcome today Mike Brenner.

He is an amazing human, and let me tell you a little bit about about him.

So he is the CEO of Right Cord Leadership, which seamlessly blends his extensive experience as an international leadership consultant and professional musician to inspire and educate leaders and their teams.

With over two decades in leadership consulting and 35 years in music, Mike's unique approach grounded in the belief that when people work in harmony, great things happen.

He emphasizes the power of collaboration and communication.

And through his chords model and innovative workshops, he partners with top organizations to enhance employee engagement, reduce turnover, which is so huge, and foster inclusive environments, demonstrating the profound connection between musical harmony and effective leadership.

So welcome to the podcast, Mike.

So glad to have you here.

I'm delighted to be here, Jaclyn.

I'm looking forward to having this conversation with you.

Thanks for inviting me.

Yeah.

So you know, Mike, music is so important, and the this I love how what you are doing is bringing music and leadership kind of together.

Like, that's a huge combination.

And so we shared a little bit beforehand.

How did you have.

And how did this aha.

Moment to bring the two come together?

That's a great question, Jacqueline.

So I've been playing music since fourth grade, which was, let's just say, a long time ago.

And I've been playing professionally since I was a teenager, so that's many, many decades.

And I've also been a trainer, facilitator, organizational development consultant, working with leaders and teams for about 25 years now.

I pivoted out of advertising and got into learning and development.

So that was around the turn of the millennium.

But it wasn't until about a decade ago where I saw the possibility of blending those two worlds in a way that was not only satisfying to me as a practitioner, but could also bring this content to people in a way that was perhaps a little unique and a little different than what they had seen.

And to make a long story much shorter, it came together from a conversation I had with a friend and colleague who asked me, well, Mike, what do you think differentiates you in the marketplace from all the other consultants and trainers and.

And coaches out there?

And I said, gee, I don't really know.

That was my.

Actually my initial answer.

And he said, that's not a very good answer, Mike.

And he was right about that.

He said, yeah, but dig a little deeper.

And so I started to talk about my love of music and how I've been playing music for decades and music is a big passion of mine.

And he stopped me and he said, you know, if you could see your face right now as you talk about your love of music, you would.

You would see just how enthusiastic you are about it.

And he said, I think you've answered your own question.

I think what you should consider doing is blending your love and passion and background as a musician with your background and expertise in leadership development and team building and organizations and things like that.

And that was really the epiphany that was the moment.

And interestingly, the way we always kind of look for what's wrong with an idea before we consider what may be right with an idea.

I said to him, well, what if people feel that the music piece is sort of superfluous or frivolous or, you know, just seems kind of gimmicky?

And he said, well, you know, there's always going to be people out there who don't resonate with whatever it is you're doing, but if you.

If you create something that is authentic and that has your genuine passion behind it, I guarantee you that people will connect to it.

And he was right.

And it's served me, you know, very well since then.

And I just really enjoy talking about music in the context of books, business, in the context of leaders, and in the context of organizations.

People seem to really.

They get it.

They really get it.

No pun intended.

It strikes a chord.

Yes, exactly.

Once.

Once I decided to go down that, that.

That pathway, I started to think of all the.

The different phrases and.

And words that could, you know, I could use to.

To build this brand.

And I hit upon that familiar phrase, strike the right chord, and I realized that you can strike the right chord in a musical context, and you can strike the right chord in a leadership context.

And then that just got shortened to right chord leadership, and everything kind of flowed from there.

Yep.

So we'll talk about right court leadership in a second.

But I just have to share because I always think about the conductor.

Right.

And I've actually shared this with, you know, other people as well, which is, you know, the leader in the business is really just like the conductor.

They need to bring out the right, no pun, like, right notes to make it all come together.

And some people will play, like, play louder at different times than others, but they still collectively work together as a team to create a beautiful sound.

Yeah, 100%.

So, I mean, I was first exposed to the notion of leader as conductor in graduate school, and I Mean, I love classical music.

I grew up on classical music, and I still listen to a lot of classical music.

But when I was introduced to jazz when I was in fourth grade, because it was all classical, classical, classical.

And then in, well, actually seventh grade.

Not fourth grade, seventh grade.

I'd been playing clarinet since fourth grade.

And my band instructor said, hey, let me put on some jazz for you.

And I said, what now?

What are you going to play for me?

And he put on an old Miles Davis record.

I was like, what is this?

You mean he's making that up as he goes along?

There's no sheet music.

He goes, yeah, that's called improvisation.

And what I realized over the years, and even more so now, for me at least, organizations seem to be more like jazz ensembles than orchestras.

And I've had this debate, and the conductor, orchestra metaphor absolutely has merit.

But I find that organizations are messy and organizations, we're not reading from a piece of sheet music, we're often improvising.

Despite all the strategizing we might, things happen, unexpected.

And so the agility and, and ability to pivot like a jazz ensemble, I always felt was more akin to a modern organization than even an orchestra, where it's about precision and it's about, you know, playing the note that the composer intended.

If the composer wrote a B flat, you can't play a C. Right.

You gotta play jazz ensemble.

You can play virtually anything you want.

And it's up to your bandmates to listen and follow and respond empathically and be agile and who's the soloist and who's supporting the soloist.

And I just found all of that was really very reminiscent of the way I tend to look at the modern organization.

And so I typically use jazz and jazz ensembles as my main metaphor, if that makes sense.

No, it totally makes sense.

And actually, I think our listeners, I think that's a key thing to also really think about is that, you know, if you're thinking from your.

From the standpoint of a company or an organization, a lot of times, and what you just said, I think is really important, is that you have to be listening.

Yes.

To.

To.

In order.

In order for things to work and, and to.

To.

To meld together key as a, Even as a leader, these, these matter the most.

Our ears.

As I'm.

If you're listening to this on the podcast, you're not seeing me point at my ears, but my ears have to listen.

Right?

Absolutely.

And Dan Goldman, one of the forefathers, pioneers of emotional intelligence.

Right.

We all know Dr. Dan Goldman.

I often play a video of his in my workshops where he says he's talking about poor listening skills, which he calls like.

He calls like the common cold of leadership.

And that, that always cracks me up because, I mean, he's not wrong.

And that's not to.

That's not to indict, you know, any particular leader, but we see it all the time, this.

And I find it ironic that with the prevalence of modern technological devices that are intended to help us or facilitate communication and listening.

Right.

To degrade our listening skills.

So I find that somewhat ironic.

But to go back to your original point, Jacqueline, listening is absolutely critical.

And I find that even with experienced leaders who are often in a hurry to sort of share their own narrative or their directions or their instructions or whatever it is that they're sharing, we often don't allow time and space to listen adequately to the response.

And so I'm often working with clients to really lean into that skill, practice listening.

And the way I do that is I play a piece of music and I ask the folks in the workshop to come up with a title for it.

And the point of that exercise is to say, talk to me about the quality and level of listening that was required to come up with a title.

It required some very deep listening, didn't it?

It required you to avoid distractions in the environment and focus.

Right.

Well, how often do we listen at that depth?

Typically.

And of course, the answer to that is not very often at all.

And of course, that leads to a much larger conversation about listening.

But, yeah, it starts with listening.

It starts with empathy.

It starts with creating a space for people who might have different perspectives than you and resisting the urge to discount them or devalue them or dismiss them, but to be open and receptive to them.

And all of that is, of course, covered in the book that you mentioned earlier.

Yep.

So speaking of book.

Right.

So you have just.

You have Right.

Core leadership, and you just have come out in April with Strike Strike the Right Chord.

And so talk a little bit about the book and also your program.

Sure.

So Strike the Right Core.

The subtitle is the Emerging Leader's Guide to Exceptional Performance.

The Reason why.

And more experienced leaders, I would imagine, could find value in the book as well.

But it really is intentionally targeted for developing leaders or emerging leaders because I felt there was an opportunity in the marketplace.

The more we read about millennials and Gen Z entering the workforce, and perhaps they're well intentioned, they're ambitious.

I know a lot of millennials and Gen Z and contrary to some of the stereotyping that goes on about those generations, I find them to be very, very smart, very shrewd, very ambitious, and very knowledgeable.

But many of them, in my experience, sort of lack the polish, maybe the interpersonal skills, if you will, that would allow them to really thrive in today's workplace.

And so the book is intended to say, hey, look, let me share some things with you that I've learned over 25 years of doing this that, you know, maybe they didn't teach you in business school or, you know, I imagine sitting across from, from an emerging leader, having a cup of coffee and having a very informal, casual conversation about communication, about accountability, about trust and respect, about emotional intelligence, and just kind of sharing with them, hey, man, here's some things that I think will, Will help you as you grow and develop as a leader.

And that was sort of the.

The orientation, if you will, that I adapted, or I should say that I adopted to write this book.

And then, of course, you know, I have a host of programs and workshops and, and webinars that are based on the different principles and, and concepts that are discussed in the book.

So, you know what I find?

You know, I, I love this focus on the burgeoning leader.

Right.

Because.

Because that, you know, I know you.

You have a master's.

I have a, you know, my degree in business.

There are certain things they don't teach you in school.

And it's not, it's not necessarily that they don't necessarily.

It's.

It's.

Sometimes it's harder to teach in a classroom versus once you're actually in the workforce and you're becoming the leader because you can have scenarios, but honestly, until you're in it.

Yes.

Yeah, that's like, that's true for a lot of things, Jacqueline.

Right.

You could, you know, you could bury your nose in textbooks and be taught by even wonderful professors in school, which I was, and I'm sure you were, too.

But it's not until you actually find yourself in a functioning organization with people who may be very different from you, have different styles, different temperaments, different personalities, different agendas, different goals, different aspirations, you got to figure all that out.

It's one thing if you've spent decades in organizations and you can kind of, you've learned how to manage all that.

But if you're a burgeoning leader, as you say, or developing leader, emerging leader, you may not have those fully formed skills that you really need to be successful.

And so that's how I kind of came up with the chords model, which you mentioned in the introduction.

So I thought about, again, a way of leveraging music to foster leadership development and team building.

Each of the six letters in the word chords is a note, if you will, right?

So if you play all six notes.

So C is communication, H is harmony, O is ownership, R is respect, D is direction, and S is support.

The book goes into each of those in great depth.

But the premise is, if you're playing all six notes as a leader or as just an individual contributor to a team, you're probably experiencing a fair amount of success.

But with each fewer note that you play, you start to see some dysfunction leak in.

And so I always say to my clients, what chords are you playing?

I mean, that is a question I'll ask them.

And I think of the chords we play as the energy with which we show up at work.

The way we comport ourselves, the way we carry ourselves, the quality of the interactions we have with our colleagues, with our boss, are collectively the chords we play.

And so I'll tell young leaders, hey, I want you to be more aware of the chords you play every moment of every day because they can make a huge difference to your success.

And they.

They get it.

They get it.

You know, it seems to, you know, strike a chord with them, you know.

You know, Mike, it is so important that you said that.

And one thing that I actually, I listeners, and I also really want you to understand this more than anything is that asking that question, like, what chords are you playing?

Or, you know, and.

And how does that.

How are those chords that you're playing relate to the chords that other people on the team are playing?

And what.

And how are you showing up?

Because.

And I'll give an example, you know, I have a, you know, there.

I'm just thinking about a.

A woman who's in a part of a group that is in this company that I also work with, and she's horrible.

Like, I mean, like, oh, no, but I mean, it's.

It's sad and in the sense that, you know, because she, like, how she shows up is negative.

She's a complainer.

There's always the excuses, right?

So.

And you almost have to say, you know, being able to say to somebody like that, like, you know, or in general, like to look at yourself, like, if you're not getting the results that you want either in your work, in your leadership, what chords are you playing?

What's the energy that you're bringing to the table?

Are you that person that I just described who's like, oh, cringe.

Yeah, 100%.

Jacqueline and I talk about that when we talk about.

Or when I talk about emotional intelligence.

One of the key dimensions of emotional intelligence, self awareness.

Right.

Without self awareness, without an understanding of.

Yes.

What makes you tick, who you are, what your hopes, dreams, and aspirations are.

That's one dimension of self awareness.

The other dimension of self awareness is what kind of impact are you having on the people around you?

Which goes back to the what chords are you playing?

If you lack self awareness, that's a huge liability at work.

And so what I try to underscore with the folks I work with, the clients I work with, is sometimes you gotta turn the mirror on yourself and ask yourself, if I'm not getting the results I want.

Maybe it's very easy to blame others and point fingers and say, I have the worst luck.

And we know people like that.

But it takes a courageous person to turn the mirror and say, maybe the chords I'm playing are holding me back or hindering me in some way.

Maybe I need to play some different chords to get some different outcomes.

And that's a question which I will frequently pose to my clients who are not getting where they want to get.

And I'll say, not everybody is willing to do the heavy lifting, the self reflection required to get an increased understanding of what you're doing that may be holding you back.

I once was doing a workshop for a group of labor and delivery nurses who worked on the same floor at a hospital here in Philadelphia.

And one of the nurses who had been a part of the team for many, many decades, she was like a senior nurse there, was explaining something to me and the full group that wasn't going particularly well.

And I said to her, well, would you consider playing some different chords to potentially get some different results?

And I'll never forget what she said.

She said, ah, I've been here since the Liberty Bell cracked.

So she said it very dismissively and very sarcastically.

And of course everybody laughed.

But I thought about it, and of course that's code for don't look to me to change.

I've been here forever, and everyone else is going to have to work around me.

I thought to myself, gee, yeah, on the surface that's a funny thing to say, but it's also very revealing of a person.

Lack of self awareness and unwillingness to maybe play some different chords.

So, yeah, I think that's critical.

I don't know anybody, and you probably don't either.

Jacqueline, who's successful at any endeavor in life, who's not Willing to do a little self reflection and ask what role am I playing either in my success or my lack of success.

To me, that's a hallmark of anyone who ever achieves anything worthwhile is someone who's not afraid to do that level of self reflecting.

And that's something that I really underscore with my clients if they want to be not only successful at work, but successful in life.

You know, Mike, that is, it is so true.

And I would say that I think that that is something that you have as a good leader or somebody who has it, is embracing success or has it.

The only way to get there is to be able to look inward to see.

Because in order to look inward, if you can, if you can't look inward, you will never know how you can change to be better so that you can create more of an impact.

You just, you have to be able to, as you said, turn, turn the mirror on yourself and say, what am I doing?

But spend that time, you know, it's really important to spend that time to understanding who you are as a human.

What do you need to do?

And as you share with what you're doing is what chords am I playing and what chords need to change to make the music that I'm producing better and different.

You got it right.

Whether I'm coaching a client or delivering training program, I literally, I think 100% of the time the, the event or the experience or the conversation begins with an exploration of self awareness.

And I'll say, you know, how willing are you to, to do some of the work I'm going to ask you to do?

Because if, if you're not going to sort of consider the chords you're playing, that's fine.

But I'm, I'm, I'm not the right, you know, I'm not the right person for you.

And that doesn't mean, you know, we don't have to go to some, you know, silent retreat and not talk for a week as we examine our inner spirit.

And you know, that's fine if you want to do that, but that, that's not the kind of self reflection I'm referring to.

I'm just thinking about, you know, take, take, take some time, you know, every day or a few times a week to ask a very simple question, which is what chords am I playing and are they helping or hindering my progress?

And whether you frame it, chords or any other metaphor you want to use for me, it is a hallmark of any champion you talk to, any athlete, any great musician, any great actor, anyone who's great at what they do, they're always asking themselves, what am I doing?

And is it helping or hindering my success and my progress?

And to me, it's just, it's fundamental to success as a leader.

It's fundamental to success as a team contributor.

It's fundamental to success as a musician.

It's fundamental to success as a human being.

And that's why, really, the first part of the book is really focused on emotional intelligence, self awareness, self management, right?

Staying calm under pressure, staying calm under stress, navigating through difficult moments, challenging moments, social awareness, which is about interacting with other people with a high level of empathy.

And then relationship management, which is all about trust and so forth.

And from that foundation of skills comes sort of the more, you know, the more sophisticated skills.

But it all begins with that, with that emotional intelligence.

Oh, I absolutely love it.

You know, Mike, I love what you're doing.

And listeners, you know, do me the favor and go out and go get the book.

Strike the right chord.

I'm actually going to make sure that we have a link to the book in the show notes, but go out and get the book.

Whether you're a seasoned leader or you're just starting out on your leadership journey, it is something that we can always take the time to learn and do better at.

And, Mike, I think what you're doing and what you're bringing to the table for leaders and helping develop leaders is so important.

So I really want to thank you for bringing this and being a guest on the podcast.

And again, listeners, go out, connect with Mike and do me the other favor and hit subscribe.

And the best way is share this with your friends and colleagues because you know that there is somebody out there that needs to hear this message.

So thank you so much for listening.

I'm your host, Jaclyn Stranger.

And Mike, thank you so much for being an amazing guest.

Thank you so much, Jacqueline.

I hope we played some.

Some right chords today.

I appreciated your excellent questions and being a guest on your podcast was a lot of fun.

Thank you.