Foreign.

So this is a bonus episode of the ADHD Women's well Being podcast.

And I'm really excited to bring you some extra content, bonus information to celebrate the launch of my new book, which is happening on the 17th of July.

So, because everything started in this podcast with you, with this growing community, I want to give you as much as I can for the build up to the book and during the summer.

And I want to share with you the conversation that I recently had with Alex Partridge on his podcast, which is the ADHD Chatter podcast.

I went down to London, we filmed it in person.

It was all very exciting.

But what was more exciting was that there was so much gold and so much good information in this podcast, which is why Alex has very kindly allowed me to share the conversation we had on this podcast.

So it's all about collaboration.

It's about sharing information to help more people.

So I really hope that you enjoy this conversation I had with Alex.

I think I just kind of downloaded everything that was going on in my brain in the space of about 45 minutes.

So here it is.

And, yeah, I would really appreciate your thoughts.

Maybe drop me a message on Instagram.

And I would absolutely love it if you do buy the book and it does resonate with you, any form of review or sharing on social media would massively help get the book out there to an even bigger audience.

So here is my conversation with Alex Partridge.

What's your mission within the world of adhd?

I think my mission is to help women and girls understand themselves better, not feel shame, and to recognize the traits and the symptoms and not see them as a negative and not be embarrassed and be able to say, right, okay, this is what's going on for me.

This is why I feel the way I do.

This is my.

My nervous system.

This is my mood, my energy.

And instead of it being like, oh, my God, this is, you know, this is me now, and it's gonna be really hard.

It's like, no, let's find different ways, let's find new ways.

Let's find ways that we can thrive and live well and be aware about who we are so we can.

I just think.

I think I would definitely say.

I'm thinking out loud here, that my mission would be just to create more understanding and more awareness.

So the shame is gone.

Because even when I was diagnosed five years ago, there was so much shame and embarrassment and stigma and taboo and I didn't want to talk about it, and I don't want that for other people.

Such a powerful mission, Kate and You started your podcast.

What do you think puts you in a position to spread that message and to push forward with that mission?

Yeah.

So I started my podcast, which is the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Podcast, back three and a half years ago.

And to me, when I first started it, I thought, who is going to want to hear about ADHD and women's well being apart from like a very small group of women?

And I genuinely had no idea, like how it would be received and I never believed that it would grow and evolve the way it has.

And this podcast, I genuinely believe, has been the door that has opened to so many, I would say doctors, research women specialists, psychologists, who have started to see ADHD in women differently, started to understand it more.

I've been able to see how pervasive it can be in women's life, in girls life, and that this isn't just a, you know, scratch the surface kind of situation.

There is.

It runs so deep.

It runs through families, it runs through generational patterns.

And it's very important we start taking this very seriously because, you know, as we know it can impact our health, mental health, physical health.

We see people losing their lives to it.

And it's really, now is the time that we start taking this very seriously from across the medical board, across the therapeutic board education sector like this is.

I never believed when I first started it, I never thought that it was going to kind of take me down this trajectory.

I kind of thought, oh, it'll just be a few nice conversations and we'll talk about breath work and, you know, supplements.

But I never believed that we would get to this point where I actually can see how I use the word pervasive again because it seeps into all parts of our life and it's really important that people realize that.

Such a brilliant podcast you've started, Kate.

And I think it's why I was so excited to bring you on, because you've spoken to hundreds and hundreds of world leading experts on this topic and to sort of have you here in the studio is such an honor because I feel like through you we're sort of drawing on the experience of so many.

Starting from your own personal journey, your own diagnosis, what led you to realize that you personally have ADHD?

So my diagnosis came from having two brothers who were diagnosed back in late 80s, early 90s and I was in between them.

And so it was never once considered that I would have adhd.

I was quiet, I was easy, I didn't cause a fuss, I kept my head down.

But Again, as we see with so many girls, you know, I was sort of looking out the window.

I was distracted, I was anxious.

I was internalizing everything.

And my processing at school, I found it so hard.

Why is everyone remembering all this information and I can't retain anything?

Why can't I process this?

Why is math so hard for me?

Why do I just not understand chemistry?

Like, why is it just not going into my brain?

But it was never considered.

ADHD was just never talked about in, you know, in girls.

And then fast forward, you know, COVID pandemic, homeschooling.

I've got three daughters and a son, and I started to see traits that felt a little bit familiar to myself, but also from what I would hear growing up about ADHD and my brothers.

And that's when I started doing some investing.

And it was then it was my middle daughter, who was nine at the time, and I knew there was something else going on.

And even then, you know, five years ago, they still, you know, girls, it was like, oh, it could be a bit of dyslexia.

It could be a bit of dyspraxia.

We're not quite sure.

Maybe it's some processing.

It was very wishy washy.

And I just came across this kind of description of what ADHD looks like in girls.

And it was like this kind of like, epiphany moment of, oh, my God, that is what she's been dealing with.

Like, she couldn't sit on a chair.

Like, she literally couldn't sit on a chair.

If I was trying to teach her while we were homeschooling, she'd be on the floor.

And I just remember feeling like, that's me.

I struggled to sit on a chair.

So we both got diagnosed very quickly within each, you know, I'd say two or three weeks.

And that is when I went down this rabbit hole that has continued.

And yeah, it's still continuing.

And I'm still learning so much all the time, you know, especially I listen to people on your podcast, I listen to people coming onto my podcast.

And it's just you suddenly realize, like, how it integrates into our life in so many different ways.

So, yes, I'm definitely still on this mission.

Such a powerful mission, Kate.

And it's almost such an echo of so many people, of feeling different, misunderstood, not understanding why.

And then you get that diagnosis and you have this new paintbrush of color and context to add to years and years and years, and suddenly so much makes sense from your amazing journey.

What do you think that's Taught you about helping other women in a similar position.

So what's interesting is that I obviously the lived experience, so I'm going through it myself.

I've got three daughters, all diagnosed, and I work with lots of different people in my community, so coaching workshops, one to one clients.

And I see how it manifests very uniquely, very differently, very subtly, especially for women going through midlife with hormones perimenopause, I see it like puberty postnatally, and it kind of mutates and changes in different periods of our life, whether we've got different stressors, we've got, you know, hormones, different things going on, and it just kind of ebbs and flows and changes.

And so that is why it's so important, because women may kind of think it's manageable.

Oh, it's fine.

I've probably just got a little bit of a touch of ADHD and it's manageable.

And then certain things happen, you know, big life changes and stresses and illness, divorce, grief, career change.

And then the ADHD just rears its head.

And, you know, the anxiety we were just about managing or the RSD we sort of had in control, you know, control of.

And it all just feels very out of control and unmanageable and very difficult.

And that is where a lot of people come to me and say, I've kind of suspected.

But now it kind of feels like a bit of a crescendo going on in my life and I don't think I can manage this anymore.

And that's when it feels really heartbreaking because for women especially, we've been holding it together.

We hold things, we hold relationships together, families together, kids, responsibilities, commitments, friendships.

And it's kind of like, you know, a thread that unravels and then everything just kind of just, you know, crumbles.

And we struggle a lot and the ADHD really tips us over the edge.

It's one of the biggest injustices ever.

How much, and I'm sure you'll agree, women and girls have been missed and let down, specifically in the conversation surrounding adhd.

And how many were made to feel crazy by people close to them, even their doctors, for so many years, misdiagnosed with an anxiety disorder, told to just stop being so sensitive or that they were just too much or not enough.

And then you get that diagnosis at whatever age that comes for you.

And there can be a lot of grief, a lot of looking back and anger at why you were missed for so many years and what could have been different if that had been picked up Sooner.

I mean, you've spoken to, you know, you're in a really unique position.

You've spoken to so many ADHD women, both personally and expertly.

What do you see as the common threads of struggle with ADHD women that you've spoken to?

Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of common threads.

Overwhelm, for sure.

Anxiety, worrying, judgment, fear of being, not, not being able to hold it all together.

I would say hormones, they always come back to hormones and our nervous system.

You know, this sort of combined kind of impact of what the overwhelm is doing to this sort of stress response in our body.

A massive common thread that I see is physical, you know, issues, a lot of inflammation, gut issues, chronic pain, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, women's health issues such as, like, endometriosis, migraines.

And there's not one woman who has been diagnosed late in life with ADHD that hasn't got a flurry of these sort of overlapping conditions and that, you know, I really haven't met anyone that just goes, oh, no.

It's just a little bit of ADHD that I struggle with.

You know, whether it's insomnia, it's.

They've had, like, really difficult, you know, reproductive health issues that they've, you know, really struggled with.

And like you say, they've been gaslit by doctors, they've been passed from pillar to post, they've had unnecessary surgery, you know, hysterectomies, like really invasive surgeries where, you know, maybe if they looked at hormones or taken away synthetic hormones and offered more holistic treatments or understood how they needed to move their body more or get take different supplements or nutritional help or, you know, somatic work, just being able to understand the stress that they're holding in their body from feeling different, not being understood, not being validated, and that cacophony of everything blending together, it, it reaches a boiling point.

It's like a volcano.

And that is when they, they, they come to me.

Yeah, that's, that's when they get the emails at like 11 o' clock at night going, I think I need to come to you.

Or when's your next workshop?

Or how can, you know, how can you help me?

Or can you point me to resources?

And, you know, I get a lot of emails and it's hard for me because I'm often overwhelmed and I kind of definitely can respond and I feel awful if sometimes I don't respond.

But I, I feel their pain when I'm reading it.

Like, I know that Pain because the, you know, look at the time they're sending it to me, they've sent me like a whole life story.

And it's the same life stories of so many women, so many, you know, whether it's divorce, abuse, estrangement, difficulty with their children, addiction, it's it for me, it's heartbreaking and this, and it gets, that's what gets me out of bed every morning, is that this has to be looked at and taken very seriously by the minute.

Someone comes into their GP and they say, I've listened to a podcast, I've read an article, I actually think this is me.

And the GP listens and doesn't say, here's some anti anxiety medication that GP says, tell me very briefly, what's your life story, what's your family history, what's going on health wise?

And the GP competes, sit together.

And that is what I hope is that yes, I know that they overstretch the gps, but for them to almost be able to say, right, connect dots, piece it together, create a pattern, right, I need to fast track this person to go and get diagnosis, assessment, medication, coaching, therapy, whatever we can do to help.

Because we know that unfortunately suicide in women, midlife women, is very high in neurodivergent women.

And we have to get that help, you know, way before we get to that point of desperation.

If someone's at that point of desperation, Kate, previously they were struggling, overwhelm, anxiety was there, but they were, they were getting by, they were, they were coping with it and something tipped them over to the point of crisis.

And you alluded to a few examples, it could be a divorce or children could come into the mix or the menopause, various things.

And it tips them over into that point of really needing desperate help.

At that phase in a woman's life, what could be said or done to really soothe or to release some of that pressure?

Oh yeah, I mean it's hard because, you know, if they are in that crisis point, they really do need professional help.

They need someone who understands psychological, you know, support, who is neuro affirming, who really understands the impact of what neurodivergence has on mental health of undiagnosed or not understood, or they only just getting that awareness and they're like, oh my God, okay, so I'm potentially autistic.

Adhd, both.

No wonder I felt like this, like sensory overwhelm, not feeling like they can do day to day tasks and activities where they struggle with friendships and relationships.

And I think the validation and the understanding and that compassion and support is a massive, massive thing for women at crisis point of a professional saying, there's a very high chance that you could be neurodivergent, and this is why you've experienced this over your lifetime.

And we're gonna get you some help and we're gonna find support and, you know, a diagnosis.

Because that kind of junction in life of where they don't feel like they're going mad anymore, that someone's listening, that they're not imagining all of this, and there is a reason.

It's not because they are broken or flawed or there's a deficit, that they are just, they.

They're wired differently, they work, they're.

They're more sensitive.

Their nervous systems process the world differently, our hormones react differently.

And then we can be like, okay, now we feel a bit more empowered.

Now it's okay.

Like, now I know what's going on.

And we always know, you know, knowledge is power.

Who, you know, who can help me?

Where can I get support?

What can I read?

What can I listen to?

And very often that is where women make a bit of a change.

They kind of, they.

They say, right, that's when I start feel, Feeling better because I've got that education, that psycho education and the awareness.

Yeah, it's really powerful, Kate.

And I got.

I really got emotional there because I know it's conversations like this and the work that you're doing that is saving a whole new generation of women coming through without that misunderstanding or feeling of being misunderstood.

The reality is, many people have been told that they're too much, too sensitive, and they have been missed, a whole generation of missed women before conversations like this happened.

If a woman slips through the net and they go for years without understanding why and not having that meaning to supplement their behavior, what can that feeling of misunderstood due to one's self esteem, do you think.

It's.

It can take a huge knocking imposter syndrome, you know, not reaching potential, not working with what is aligned to them, to their energy, to what they really.

Their authenticity, their truth.

They feel like they're probably living in a body that kind of is very misaligned, and they don't quite feel that they fit.

And I think the word self esteem is exactly what happens.

They don't trust themselves, they don't believe in themselves.

They don't see how they can bring any kind of good to the world because everything they try just feels like a struggle or a challenge.

It's just constantly like putting a jigsaw piece that doesn't fit and like cramming it in and pushing it and no matter what you do, that piece won't fit unless you know that it's in the wrong, it's in the wrong place.

So I always go back to like, let's build the awareness.

Let's talk about it without judgment.

Let's, you know, just find a place in society where this conversation is no longer stigmatized and not, you know, oh, everyone's talking about it and everyone's this and that and just be like, yeah, okay, maybe certain careers or certain ways of working aren't right for us, but let's find a way that is right for us.

And as you probably know, and I know you've seen in your career, is that when we work with what we feel passionate about and what aligns with us and where, you know, what's suited kind of time wise, energy wise, sensory environment wise, we fly.

We really can fly.

And that is what I want to be able to talk about.

Especially for women who are, whose self esteem has taken a knock.

I mean, they've gone through lots of different careers and they just feel like they just can't really amount to much because no one's really believed in them and they've not believed in themselves either.

They're trying to sort of force a jigsaw piece into a puzzle that doesn't fit the slot.

It almost perfectly summarizes the whole conversation.

What emotions do you think encapsulates that feeling of being misunderstood in women?

Probably the emotions would be sadness, feeling lost, feeling like they don't fit in, feeling separate, feeling like they want to be part of something, rejected.

There's a feeling of deep sadness, I think.

And then when, so some women are very lucky and they kind of know they're a bit, you know, they'll use words like quirky or different.

They've never really been able to have a label or anything.

And they found like their tribe, maybe they've just worked in a very creative industry.

They've been around a very loving, non judgmental, judgmental family and they've just found a way of it working even though they've not quite understood, you know, maybe it's ADHD or autism or the combined, you know, or dhd and it's worked for them and they just feel like, oh, okay, I can breathe.

I would say it's a feeling of like feeling choked and stifled because we didn't, we don't have the language and we didn't have the language and no one was understanding us.

And Someone said this word to me the other day on the podcast of emotional safety.

Yes.

And I was like, that is so profound.

Because if you're not feeling safe in your friendships and your relationships and your family, your nervous system's always on stress response.

It's hypervigilant.

You can't relax, you can't speak authentically, you can't be yourself.

And you know, the impact of masking your whole life, you know, the weight and the heaviness of just not being able to be yourself is really, really hard.

And some people need to go live in another country.

They need to go away, far, far away, and they need to go and find themselves or they need to change careers or they need to, I don't know, do something quite drastic to be able to find that part of them.

Or they can just have a really vulnerable conversation with the people that they love.

And I think we have to be more open to having these uncomfortable conversations and explaining how we feel and I hope creating more emotional safety with the people that we love.

Because very often we don't want to break up relationships and we want our families to understand us, but sometimes it can just feel so hard to have a conversation about why we feel different or why we want to change things.

So, yeah, emotional safety is a really big one.

Where do you think the feeling of difference comes from?

We know there's that statistic that ADHD children are exposed to 20,000 more negative comments when they were younger, little micro corrections, little, little adjustments to their of who they are presenting.

Do you think as a consequence of that, ADHD women have an innate feeling of not being enough?

Yes, I think we're very critical and self judgmental on ourselves.

I think we're the worst.

We're our worst critics, for sure.

We're perfectionists, we're people pleasers.

So we internalize all of this so someone else can judge us and someone else can correct and criticize us.

But no one's doing it any worse than we're doing it ourselves.

And that's hard to live with.

So if you're constantly, you've got such a high bar of expectation on yourself and we're never quite fulfilling that, that's exhausting.

I mean, I definitely do that to myself.

I put myself in such a high bar of what I should be achieving and what I should be producing and, you know, what my day should have looked like and what I, you know, all these different things that it's crazy and I know what I've done over the past three or four Years is.

It's been really, like, big, you know, a podcast, written a book, four kids, marriage, keeping family, my family, like, you know, all of that.

It's.

I felt so burnt out so many different times.

No one should put that pressure and expectation on themselves, but I've.

I've put that pressure on me.

So there is an element of us, I think, that we just put a huge amount of pressure on ourselves, but it's intertwined with so many other parts of how our ADHD shows up, which is all our ideas.

We want to do everything we come up with, you know, as you probably know as well, lots of ideas.

Yes.

We.

We're like, oh, okay, I need to do that, and I need to do it, like, tomorrow.

And then we underestimate the impact of piling all the things, the commitments and the yeses that we've said.

And so now I'm really trying to practice what I preach and really put those boundaries in and strip things back and say no more and say yes to the things that really.

And that is.

It's work in progress.

But we have to keep doing that because we can crumble so easily and we can get overwhelmed and burnt out so easily.

It's a very fine line.

You mentioned people pleasing earlier.

Do you think people with ADHD are more likely to be people pleasers?

I think so.

Yeah.

I do think so.

I mean, I've noticed it a lot in myself, some of my kids.

I see it in a lot in my community that we are trying to please people because maybe we've been told that we're doing things wrong or we shouldn't be like that we need to change or with.

We fear, like, you know, that it comes with the rejection, sensitive dysphoria that we fear, that ostracization.

So we're always trying to be malleable and mold ourselves towards what people.

What is more sort of conventional, what people want from us.

And that fear of upsetting someone if we do say no, or we push back or we say, you know, that's not good for us.

I have it all the time, and it's genuinely like a muscle.

I have to practice.

I have to kind of build myself up.

It's kind of like doing star jumps and whatever.

And it's like, right, come on.

And I do it and I'm like, that's not as bad as I thought it was going to be.

But I build it up so much in my head that I probably.

I burn myself out, exhaust myself just by the buildup of trying to push Back my people pleasing a little bit.

So it goes to the internal, how constant this internal kind of motor is.

It's just non stop.

I guess if rejection is so painful for us, so physiologically painful for us, that we go to drastic lengths to protect ourselves from experiencing that pain.

And if we sense any disapproval from somebody, and that could be direct, it could be a direct criticism or it could be an indirect perceived criticism, like the tiniest change in tone of voice, or we sort of, we sense a slight heavier footstep and we think that person hates us.

It sounds, it sounds epically obscure to many.

But if you've got adhd, you really feel this to be true.

And as a consequence of that effort to avoid that trigger, we go to all lengths to avoid disapproval.

So we do people please.

Because we're so scared of standing up for ourselves because that exposes us to a criticism.

Yeah, 100%.

Yeah.

What do you think the repercussions are of people pleasing if you don't put yourself first?

Genuinely, our health, it really is, it's always our health.

You know, and the amount of people that I speak to have had cycles of burnout.

It's just part and parcel of their life.

Yes.

Or chronic pain or migraines and they have to go to bed for two days, Severe, you know, gut issues, it's always, always present in physical health conditions.

And if you think about suppressing and repressing ourselves and we're just constantly internalizing from a physiological perspective, it's creating inflammation and it can just present itself wherever, you know, whether it's, you know, a bad back, tight shoulders, you know, I go back to the migraines because I just know that's, that's, you know, quite common.

And we, we, it is our physical health.

So the amount of times I've gone to a chiropractor or a physio and I said my back, oh my God, my lower back.

And he's like, well, what have you done?

I said, nothing really.

I might have just bent down into the dishwasher wrong and I've like pulled, you know, some crazy sort of spasm.

But I know it's a build up.

I can feel it over the weeks and the months, like a tweak and a tweak and then something very small just, you know, goes.

And then that's.

And I've had that a few times, but I see it present in lots of different ways.

So I always, you know, if I speak to a client of mine and they think it's just a Minimal thing that the people pleasing or the boundaries or the saying yes all the time or over committing.

And I try and explain to them that actually you need to see this as a much bigger, this is a much bigger thing because tell me a little bit about your health, what's going on with your sleep, all of that and the knock on effect that has.

It's always that.

So yeah, I don't think I'd be so interested to know if someone doesn't have any physical health conditions due to internalized adhd.

I suppose people pleasing probably extends to masking as well because I guess in essence masking is changing who you are to avoid disapproval.

Do you think women mask more than men in the ADHD sphere?

I think they probably do because women can be quite good chameleons and we can, I think from a societal perspective women have had to sort of be told, you know, don't, don't do that.

That's, you know, that that can rock the boat.

Or don't assert your power or don't be too, don't be too assertive, don't be too aggressive.

Like I think very much from a societal perspective women have been suppressed, as we know, bring in neurodivergence which we've not understood.

So if women are slightly different or more outspoken or a bit louder or a bit quirkier or more likely to say something that's kind of quite provocative, then yes, we will have been told to, you know.

So I think I do believe we're in an inflection point though, because women empowerment is, you know, is there, it's not going anywhere.

We're getting stronger, we're getting more vocal and we're also recognizing that it's not as dangerous to speak our truth.

It was dangerous, like physically dangerous to speak our truth and it still is in lots of countries.

We're now recognizing, even though in our nervous system it's kind of still programmed to be quiet and to not say anything too kind of destructive.

But there's like a, I don't know, there's a fire in a lot of women's bellies now where we're just being like, you know what?

No, we're ready to kind of be authentic.

We're ready to be ourselves.

And if people don't like it, that's their problem.

And I am seeing that a lot.

Um, it's still there, this, this, this masking the people pleasing.

It's part of the sort of a female trait.

But I do see in men as well, very much so.

I really do.

And I don't think it's just a female trait and I don't like the idea of it just being female male traits.

I think they overlap.

I think they show it very differently in, you know, different capacities.

But I do believe that men, we, I don't want to overlook men at all, especially men who are not outwardly hyperactive adhd.

So yeah, I think men could mask as well.

Many people, Kate, with adhd, from my experience, sort of have a comfort zone, like a safe place that they feel comfortable in.

But in my case, it's certainly the case that I can over commit and take on too many plans and then when one gets cancelled at the last minute, I can be very relieved.

I sort of actually get quite euphoric.

Yes.

Because that means I can retreat back to my safe space.

Do you notice that trend with the people that you speak to?

So it's actually funny that you say that because a lot of the guests on my podcast are often neurodivergent as well.

And it was only this week I went through my schedule for next week and because of the buildup to my book, my schedule is just too busy, it's too crammed.

And I looked at it and I was like something, I need to start moving and rescheduling.

So I sent a couple of emails apologizing and saying could we push our podcast, you know, back a few more months?

And the response back was from the other neurodivergent guest was thank you so much, you've done me a favor because I've over committed as well.

So it's often this sort of like ripple effect of everyone over committing because we, we all feel very passionate and we've all got a big job that we want to do and we want to help people and we want to make a change.

But is it the detriment of our own well being as well?

So yes, I'm a huge over committer but I'm trying really now and very often I do send emails to people and I'm very open about it because I feel that thankfully I work in a space where I can say the words like I'm feeling exhausted or burnt out and I know that I need to kind of like shave a few things off and they're fine with it as well.

So it feels really good.

Well, I get a text message saying, I'm really sorry, Alex, I need to cancel.

Such a relief.

Yes, don't worry.

With the people you speak to, Kay, do you notice contradictions in the way that they feel about themselves.

In other words, do you get people describing themselves as introverted extroverts?

And what do I mean by that?

I mean, they could want to be very social, but also simultaneously feel very exhausted by socializing.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I'll speak personally because that is me 100%.

I need to recharge my batteries, I would say 30 of the time.

Socially, I really enjoy it, but 70% of the time, I need a alone time.

I need quiet time.

I need to be walking my dog in nature.

Yes.

I just not to.

To not be around anything.

But for that 30% of the time, I can give it all my all.

So, for example, today I can do this.

I'm having a great time, love it.

And I will probably need about 7 hours of decompression time afterwards.

So it's.

What's that?

I'm not very good at maths, but it's kind of like, you know, a third of my time I can be sociable and the rest is I'm constantly needing to decompress.

Yeah, absolutely.

I call my sofa my recharging mat.

Speaking of at home objects, Kate, do you have any guides to ease the ADHD mind?

Something someone could do whilst at home?

So I think it's very personal, for sure.

I mean, I love a bath.

I always talk about this.

You know, for me, a bath is everything with the Epsom salts and oils.

I have my iPad, books.

I have like a little area.

And that water, for me has always been where I can just decompress.

It just depends what people need.

You know, whether that's a sauna, whether it's going for a walk or being outdoors.

I think we all have something.

I would say we all have something that we need as that recharging kind of zone.

And if you don't have that and you can't recognize it, it's really important to find it and to recognize it because if we don't and we're not being.

We're not being conscious of how easily depleted we are and how easily burnt out we are.

So we kind of.

It's like always knowing that we've got a, you know, a charger with us in our bag.

Yes.

Always knowing how we can recharge and renourish ourselves because we have finite energy and our nervous systems need of.

They are more sensitive.

We know that and we need to be able to nurture that so we can do all the good stuff and the cool stuff that we want to do.

And I'm sure you're probably the same Alex, is that you, you can do all of this, you can go and do all your speaking gigs and all the stuff, but you then need to go and retreat.

And to, to not have that awareness can be very detrimental.

Absolutely, yeah.

You know, the bath is hugely relatable to me.

In fact, one of the items behind me on the shelf is a bath for that exact reason.

It's just having that time to reflect and understand where you are on your sort of barometer of energy.

Because if you don't take those moments out to really reflect and take stock, you can over commit, you can take on too much and you don't see the burnout creeping up until you snap at your partner or you order a takeaway or you miss your morning exercise routine.

It's so important to have those moments out to really reflect and almost spot if you are approaching burnout and take your foot off the pedal.

Have you got any advice, Kate, for the younger version of you or the younger version of anyone who might be listening or a young woman who is feeling lost and confused?

Advice in what capacity?

As in like I feel that there's so much to say on that because it could be from so many different angles, you know, whether they, what they choose to do, career wise, health wise, you know, their well being.

But I would say, I would definitely say I look at again, my children.

I've got teenage girls, I've got nieces who are neurodivergent, I've got, I look at friends, children, and I just want for them more self compassion and more understanding without having to resort to the shame or the changing or the masking or if I just do this, if I just try harder, if I just change, I just want there to be a way that these girls can develop and look after themselves and kind of know themselves, deeply know themselves, what makes them tick, what burns them out, what isn't good for them from a sensory perspective, what doesn't feel truthful and aligned to them, what are they saying yes to when they really don't want to be saying yes?

Where are they putting themselves in positions where actually their power's being taken away and making choices that are feel good to them and not doing it for other people, not trying to please other people.

And that's what I would say is just start, like get to know yourself really well.

Like really get to know what, what feels good to you and make aligned choices that just because society says that you have to do it this way.

Yes, really question, be, be curious.

And I do think we're at this age, maybe with AI now, like, we're kind of starting to realize this.

Like, what's AI going to do in the world?

What are AI going to do with people who've got certain degrees and certain jobs?

All of this.

And I think it's.

I think it's potentially highlighting a way of living and working and being that doesn't have to be the same as it was.

And I don't know what AI will do, but I do know that it's opening up a new landscape, and I think that's exciting.

Absolutely.

So much of this conversation, Kate, has been really focusing on the importance of being heard and understood.

So I suppose my final question is, when in your life did you feel most heard, most understood, and most loved?

Probably working in my community, working with the women.

When I'm doing workshops, I look at their faces and I see the pain and the grief and the sadness, and it mirrors back.

And I see family members, I see generations of different women in my family that I know weren't understood.

And that is where I feel that there's this need for women to feel heard and feel validated.

And when they do, even, you know, women who are in their 60s and their 70s who say, that podcast that you did, or that workshop that you did, or that conversation that you had with so and so, that was the first time I ever felt like I understood myself.

And that's.

And I don't want women to get to their 60s and their 70s to finally have that moment in their life.

I don't think anyone should get to that point in their life, you know, and finally feel validated.

Thank you so much, Kate.

This has been incredible.

And a personal thank you for me, because when I got my diagnosis two years ago, I think I told you before, when we had our first chat, your podcast was what I dived into to help me understand my own diagnosis.

So, personally, a huge thank you.

And on behalf of all the listeners and watchers of ADHD chatter, thank you so much for the work that you're doing, and you've given me your book very kindly, the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Toolkit, which I'm super excited to dive into as well.

Thank you.

Just penultimately, Kate, your ADHD item has been patiently waiting underneath that cloth on the table in front of us for the whole conversation.

I'm going to reveal it now.

Okay.

That is as well.

Obviously, it's a pair of scales.

So antique scales.

Antique scales.

Why?

Why does antique scales represent adhd?

So, for me, I remember seeing these in my mum's kitchen growing up and I used to play with the weights and put them on and everything.

And then when you asked me what, what kind of representation in my head.

And for me it's always that small thing that tips me over, right?

So I can keep adding and adding and I can write a book and I can do the podcast and I can do this and I can do all the parenting.

And then someone might just say to me, can you just do this small thing?

And that is when I go into complet overwhelmed.

My nervous system just shuts down and I just feel so like.

And then I just want to shut down everything, literally.

It's like that one thing tips me over and straight away this visual in my head came up of these antique scales from my childhood.

Because you can see the tiny little scare, the tiny little weight, how small that is.

And that is what can tip me over the edge.

Tiny little 10 gram weight compared to the 500 and 200 grams.

Yeah, pile.

The 500 pile.

All these crazy stressful things that I'm fine, but ask me to do one small thing and that's, and that's what tips me over the edge.

And it can be really hard for a family member or a partner to see the rationale they like, where's your perspective?

Like you've, you've held all of this, you've done all of this and this one thing that someone's asked you to do, or this commitment that you don't really want to do, or this sensory overload and all of a sudden you're in a complete state of overwhelm.

And I actually do think that is why people don't understand ADHD so much, because they see us doing, doing, doing and adding more things and wanting to do more because we have so much energy and ambition and passion and enthusiasm.

But if we just add something that might not quite work at the time, then it can all go, all go to part.

So that's why I chose this.

And I suppose the ADHD person is so good at playing a character called normal and hiding the struggles that the people around them don't see the weights building up.

And when the tiny little weight gets added, and that's the tipping point, they can change quite quickly.

And I suppose from an outsider who hasn't seen the build up because it's invisible inside their heads.

You could be called Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde because the transition is so sudden.

Yes, yeah, exactly.

It's the, exactly what you said then it's there's so much going on in our heads and we're holding it all and there's.

It's, it's constant.

It's just a constant kind of like puzzle that we're piecing together.

And it just takes one thing, you know, it can be like my kids.

If I'm in the kitchen and they'll.

I'll be in my head and I'll be thinking and I'll be doing something and they'll go, mum.

And I go.

And then I just wanted to ask what's for dinner?

And that's me.

And then I realize, okay, I've taken too much on.

There's something.

There's too much going on for me here, and I don't want it to be, you know, my kids getting the brunt of that or my husband getting the brunt of that, which they often do, unfortunately.

Such a powerful and extremely accurate visual representation of the ADHD experience for many.

Just finally, Kate, I want to do the ADHD agni aunt section, which is called the Washing machine of Woes, because my ADHD item is a washing machine, because it represents memory.

I always forget my laundry in the machine.

And I do ask everyone, do you.

Do you forget your laundry in the machine?

Well, I don't even do the laundry.

That's how bad my ADHD is.

My husband, who is more kind of, I would say, on the autistic spectrum.

Loves washing perfectly into your eye and.

I'm not allowed to go near the washing.

And so he is just the.

He's on my washing machine.

I do other stuff, just so you know.

But he, he's in charge of all the washing because he knows that for that reason, I would put a wash on and completely forget about it.

So my poor kids would never get clean uniform or anything.

So he's fully in charge of the washing and I'm fully in charge of the cooking.

The perfect partnership.

I have been using the Timo app, though, actually.

They've actually been really, really helpful in helping me to remember the washing.

So if anyone is listening, I do recommend the Timo app.

This week, Kate, in the washing Machine of Woes, somebody has written in and asked.

I'm 43 and diagnosed late.

I still have trouble making friends even now.

But I hear that finding your tribe is so important.

Why is it so important and how do I find them?

So, yes, I would say 100% that finding a tribe really is so powerful.

And for a lot of ADHD women, they get diagnosed because a friend's been diagnosed and they suddenly see, oh, that's why we're all friends.

We're all neurodivergent.

You know, you're a little more like this and that.

But there's this sort of blend of, like neuro divergent women all sort of come together having lots of fun and talking over each other and forgetting things and not turning up and everyone's birthday's forgotten.

And because of that, you feel accepted.

You don't feel judged.

No one is.

You know, if you turn up late, no one's that bothered.

But if you're not, if you haven't found that tribe, you can constantly feel like you're never doing enough or you're not good enough or you're a bad friend.

So I would say to that person, you know, to find your tribe, you know, figure out, like, what is it that lights you up, you know, where.

What did you used to love doing as a kid and then as an adult was sort of like told to.

That's not appropriate anymore.

Get really creative.

Find something that you just think, you know, what, you know, is it a rock choir?

Is it a pottery class?

Is it a running club?

Is it a trampolining class, whatever that is, and just go and try it.

And yes, it's really scary turning up on your own.

It's.

It's terrifying.

I've done it.

But you will always end up, I promise you, if you go and be quite niche with where you go and, you know, try, you will always find someone that is in your tribe no matter what.

You'll spot them from a mile away.

Absolutely amazing advice, Kate, to end on.

Thank you very, very much.

Thank you, Alex.

Just finally, Kate, we have one more section which is I'm going to deliver a letter to you that was written by the previous guest.

Oh.

Every week, Kate, I ask the guests after the interview to write down their three rules to live by and they post it in that post office and I deliver it to the next guest, which today is yourself.

Oh, I love this.

I love a letter.

Thank you.

So, three rules to live by.

Be kind to yourself, Always be gracious to those you meet and be a lifelong learner.

I mean, I couldn't have written anything better.

Very perfect rules.

Be a lifelong learner.

That is 100% I'm aligned to that.

Those are really lovely.

Thank you so much.

Can I get to keep these?

You can, yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Once again, Kate, thank you on behalf of everyone grappling to understand the brain.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

So I hope you enjoyed this this bonus episode, and I really wanted to bring you that extra knowledge to the podcast.

And this will be carrying on over the next few weeks to celebrate the launch of the ADHD Women's well Being Toolkit, which is out on the 17th of July.

You can go to my website, ADHD womenswellbeing.co.uk Order your copy there.

And you know what?

Why do you order an extra copy for a friend or a loved one?

I absolutely love doing that to people.

I love buying a book online and sending it to them and something that they I know that they'll enjoy or might benefit from.

And perhaps, you know, they don't want us lecturing them, but maybe sometimes a book just works.

So I love doing that to people.

And maybe you can do that for someone you love as well.

So thanks so much for being here, and I will see you all soon.