​ Dave Salter: Hi, I'm Dave Salter and

where we share insider strategies for small business sales success.

I'm joined by Dennis Collins, our resident rockstar on sales training.

Dennis has been training folks for.

Almost four decades and our specialty is working with small businesses.

Dennis, say Hi.

Good morning, Dave, or good afternoon, depending right,

wherever you may be in this world.

How are you today?

I'm doing great.

In this episode Dennis, we're gonna talk about trust, why it's important

to your sales efforts, how you can gain it, how not to lose it and.

We're gonna have some examples from you because you've got hundreds

of great stories about this.

So that's good.

I wanna tell you a story to, to start a little bit.

So, a couple years ago, we woke up in the morning to find

water in our sunroom, okay?

And had no idea what was going on.

And I went to work that day and I'm talking to myself as I'm going

through my activities and one of my coworkers says, Hey, I know a guy

that can solve that problem for you.

So right away I have some trust because a person I know

told me about this contractor.

So I called the contractor, told him about our problem.

He comes out the next day.

So trust builder, number two, right.

Prompt response to my problem.

He gives us, tells us what he's gonna do, gives us an estimate, gives

us a time for project completion.

Uh, they come out and do the job.

Next time it rains, we get water in our sunroom again.

Hmm.

So I call the guy.

And I get no response.

. No response.

No response.

I go back and I talk to my colleague at work.

I'm like, do you know where this guy lives?

And she's like, yeah, I do.

I, long story short, he never comes back to fix the problem.

Had to hire another contractor to come in and fix what he didn't do.

He built my trust up really well in initially, and then

there was a huge letdown.

So you've done a bunch of research on this and there's a guy named

Maslansky, who, who's done a lot of research on the language of trust.

So tell us a little bit about that.

I will.

Sorry about your story.

As we'll talk later, one of the measures of trust.

Is capability.

Does this provider, does this person, this business, whoever it is we're

hiring, do they have the capability of delivering what we expect?

And obviously as a customer, you expect it to be done right?

And you expect a response when there is a problem.

So capability is where this gentleman failed.

He did not really have the capability, even though he may have

tried to lead you to believe that.

But let me talk in a broader sense.

You referenced Michael Maslansky.

The Language of Trust, Maslansky is the guy that if you ever seen on TV,

those knobs, you know, during political season, yeah, there's some speech going

on and they measure yellow as Republican or Democrat, blue, green, all that.

He does the knobs.

He wrote a book called The Language of Trust.

He says this, Dave.

We are now in the P-T-E, the post trusts era.

Right.

Trust is dead according to Michael.

Maslansky, that's a pretty big statement.

It is.

Did he give any reasons for that?

He sure did.

Yeah.

He goes into great depth in the book about why that is.

He talks about communications between us and our government.

Communication between us and politicians and our leaders, communications

between large companies and the public.

And he even delves into our little world, and that is the communications

between salespeople and customers.

And he says that the old school marketing techniques, the push rather than

question, the product pitch is dead.

It's dead.

It's fallen off the cliff.

It's always assumed in today's world, according to Michael, that there's an

ulterior motive behind everybody's action.

So whatever action you take, there's a motive that generally

serves you and not the customer.

It seems like we're living in that post trust era.

So going back to what you had said based on Maslansky, so it

sounds like the communications between the bigger enterprises, if you will,

and us common folk is a lack of trust.

Correct.

Lack.

A lack.

Did he give any reasons why there is that lack of trust now you just

mentioned about so ulterior motives.

I, is there more to it than that?

Yeah.

And again I, we probably shouldn't do a whole podcast

on Maslansky cause it's rich.

I will tell you if you're in marketing or sales and you

haven't read this book, get it.

Okay.

No.

But he talks about the different spins and narratives that are out there today.

Everybody seems to have their spin or their narrative on

how things are supposed to go.

Okay?

And when we do a little digging, Which most people don't do.

We find out that they're self-serving.

The narrative is all about me, right?

It's about my group, about me, and not about you.

The customer or you, the receiver of the message.

Relating this back to sales for a second, since that's what we're talking about.

Yeah.

Any sales book that you read, anything, any article, any training that you take.

There's one thing.

That is said, all the best sales managers, sales gurus, one thing

they agree on trust is at the core of any successful sales process.

So Dennis let's talk a little bit about some of

the steps to building trust now.

Say for example, you're whatever widget you're selling, you have a

customer come into your shop how does that trust building begin and

maybe, add a couple layers to that.

Okay.

Let me start with a story.

Okay.

Around 2004, I believe it was Tylenol, we auto Tylenol.

They did a very interesting TV spot.

They featured Brenda Bass, who is their VP of Communications, I believe, for Tylenol.

Let me quote what she said in the TV spot.

"Some people think if you have a really bad headache, you

should take extra medicine.

The problem is that will not get rid of your headache faster.

Too much of an even safe medicine can cause big problems if you're

not gonna take the recommended dose.

I'd rather you didn't take any at all.

Even if it means selling less Tylenol, that's okay with me."

Wow.

What are they trying to do?

What are they trying to do?

Are they trying to not sell Tylenol?

She sounds to me like she's trying to build some trust.

Yeah, she is.

Why does that work?

Because people wanna know you've got their back, Dave.

I got you, man.

We're responsible.

Okay.

Those who speak out against their own best interests are trusted.

Yeah.

How more can you speak out against your, don't take too much Tylenol.

It's a disruptor.

I call it.

It's a, an unexpected response.

Let me share some others.

How about the campaigns?

We're not the right fit for everybody.

Hire us so we can, so you can fire us.

I love that one.

Chevron years ago.

I will unplug things.

I will at least consider a hybrid car.

They did a campaign on that.

Use less energy.

How about Anheuser-Busch?

They're in the news these days.

Yeah, they did A beer responsible, irresponsible.

We don't want anyone consuming our products illegally, ever.

Hey, we're parents too.

Are these companies trying to put themselves out of business?

No, they haven't done that.

Check their sales.

There's a significant underlying issue about drinking too much, taking too

much medicine, using too much oil.

Some people say they're just trying to avoid litigation.

Whatever it is, they are making an effort to do something for

your customers in their language.

So Dennis, you've got, quite a list of, , ways in

which a salesperson can build trust.

Can you share a couple of those with us?

Yep.

I sure can.

And let me highlight some.

Say enough, but not too much.

Say enough, but not too much.

What does that mean?

By the way, Harvard neuroscientists, that's about as good as you get, isn't it?

They've done some research.

One of the key things in coaching salespeople that I have to deal with

is salespeople tend to talk too much.

I just reviewed a tape.

Of a 51 minute sales call that one of the clients I'm working with provided

to me, it's all it was in a state where it's legal to tape record this.

I heard the sales call, and guess what?

This guy spoke 41 minutes out of 51 minutes.

Okay?

Did he close?

Did he close the sale?

Negative.

And he shouldn't have, he didn't earn the sale.

I did some research though.

You know, Dave, we'll do another podcast on this, but

let me just give you a tidbit.

Do you know why salespeople talk too much?

There is a reason.

There are a number of reasons.

You know the primary reason.

Self-serving.

They're trying to,

That's one of them.

Guess what the biggest one is?

Self-disclosure triggers the same pleasurable sensations

as good food and money.

People can't wait to talk about themselves.

Wow, that works for you when you're in sales, but also

against you as a salesperson.

How about this?

Trust requires clarity.

Clarity, okay so many sales.

Scenarios, role plays that I've listened to.

I didn't know what the hell they were talking about.

There was so much jargon.

It was complicated.

So again, the tape that I just listened to you wouldn't believe the amount

of jargon that's in this, recording.

I don't have any idea what this guy's talking about.

We also do one other thing with our clients.

We actually go out to real customers after the sale and interview them.

Wow.

You talk about eye-opening, people who bought, people who didn't buy.

The most recent one was somebody who did buy, and when we

asked her what, what was it?

Was there one thing about dealing with this client that got you to say yes?

Is there one thing you could pinpoint?

And she said, yeah, there was no jargon.

I understood everything clearly, right?

They spoke my language.

Most folks that are gonna go out and buy a widget or have somebody come

into their home and tr and sell them on a widget there is a natural resistance.

You, you have this wall built up between you and the person coming in to sell you.

Is there a couple of your bullet points that can break

down that wall of, reluctance.

Like, oh, I gotta listen to this person.

Tell me about all this stuff for how, you know, how long's it gonna go on?

And am I gonna understand what they're saying, et cetera.

Great question.

I compare it to suiting up with armor, a mental suit of armor.

Most customers, before they encounter a salesperson, they put their mental

suit of armor on why they need protection from the manipulation,

the onslaught of verbiage, what's the common thing that salespeople do?

A customer asks a question, they raise an objection, and that's the cue.

That's the cue the salesperson been waiting for.

To unleash a torrent of features and benefits and facts and figures.

They can't wait.

This is what happened.

By the way, in the call that I was referencing the tape, there was.

Five concepts that were presented without the customer even asking

or needing those five things.

That's called a sales pitch.

Okay.

That is not a consultive sell, that's a sales pitch.

Doesn't work anymore.

Okay.

That's ex, that's excruciating.

It was excruciating for me to listen to it.

Yeah.

I, this customer was so polite.

It was a husband and wife.

They were so lovely, but.

That guy would've been out of my house within seconds.

Let me talk about another piece of research again.

Maslansky.

He deals a lot with financial advisors.

You talk about trust.

Yeah.

You're gonna leave your money with financial advisors.

So he convened a panel of very high net worth investors, and he asked

them a question, how would you describe your financial advisor?

What comments would you make about your financial advisor?

And he took down their verbatims.

He's patient.

He understands my risk.

He understands my situation.

He supports my goals.

He answers all my questions.

He's always there for me.

He's accessible.

He's very attentive.

He, when we decide on a course of action, he moves forwards.

Okay.

How well the advisor interacts with them.

What is his product?

His product is financial performance, right?

Yeah.

You're expecting financial performance from him.

He, they never mentioned financial performance.

They mentioned how well the advisor interacts with them.

So the product pitch is not the important thing.

It's how well you're treated.

And I think the other part, is the art of listening.

So you're, when you reference that 51 minute call, you listened to, and that

person talked for 41 of those minutes, there was no active or intentional

listening on the part of that salesperson.

And that's something that you talk about a lot and how

critical that is in this process.

Asking great questions is only part of the battle.

So yes, we teach salespeople to ask questions.

We have a question for every event, how to open the sale, how to close a sale,

what you do in the middle of the sale.

We have a toolbox full of questions, and you pull out the one you

need at the time and use it.

But guess what?

We are very poor listeners.

Very poor listeners.

Okay?

We just don't know how to listen.

Asking great questions and listening is important because it is rare that

anybody cares more about you and has more concern about you than about themselves.

So all of a sudden when somebody starts with questions about you and

actually listens, okay, listens and responds instead of listens and pitches.

You say, wait a minute, this person is different.

And we also have study that I'll, we'll do another podcast on why do salespeople,

why are they afraid to ask questions?

It's been proven that asking questions is the secret to sales success, and yet many

salespeople are afraid to ask questions.

There's some reasons for that are quite interesting.

So now you've piqued my curiosity on this.

You've got the, you've gained the sales appointment, you've,

you're in the customer's home.

Are there signs that indicate to you that you've gained their trust?

Absolutely.

All of a sudden?

There, there are body language signs.

Have you ever noticed that, Dave?

When somebody is buying into you and they get you Yeah.

How they act.

Their eyes light up a little bit.

They may lean in a little bit.

They may even crack a bit of a smile all of a sudden.

They're buying, they're nodding their head.

They're, yeah.

You could, you can tell.

You can also tell when you don't have it.

I'll give you another example.

Discussion before engagement.

I'm old fashioned guy.

I.

When I was a kid, you were supposed to get engaged before you got married.

I don't know if they do that anymore.

I, yeah, some people do.

I guess you get, some people do.

What's the purpose of the engagement?

It's kinda like a trial run, isn't it?

It's try is this gonna, is this have a chance of working?

Any salesperson who tries to get into discussion before

engagement is going to lose.

You have got to get that engagement first.

The other thing that I notice with salespeople is how

they deal with objections.

So when I'm meeting a salesperson for the first time, I might do

a role play with 'em, and I'll throw out a couple objections to

whatever it is they're selling.

Okay.

And I wait to see what they do.

Okay.

If they try old school, overcome the objection, kill it, they're all kind

of battle terms used for objections or do they validate the objection?

Okay.

The way you build trust is you validate it.

Those are polar opposites.

Use the customer's words.

Hey Dave, I got it.

I understand how you could feel that way.

I have other customers who feel that way.

That's, again, a whole nother podcast that we'll get into.

Sure.

Y you've you've gained the trust of your potential customer.

You've seen the body language.

Maybe some dialogue also has given you that indication.

So, two-part question.

A, what would be the worst thing you could do after you felt you've gained the trust?

And B, what would be the best, positive next step after you've

felt like you've gained their trust?

Okay, so good.

Two questions.

What could you do to lose trust?

Yep.

There's an old saying in sales.

Stop talking before you talk yourself out of the sale.

Okay, so what I have observed over all these decades I've been doing this is

you've got the deal sold you, you have agreement, and you keep talking as a

salesperson and another thing, and by the way, and blah, blah, and you bring up

something inadvertently that the customer says, oh, I didn't know about that.

That changes things.

Yeah.

Whoops.

All of a sudden, all that trust you built up, Instantly caves because they see,

they, it appears as if you held something.

Back.

Yeah.

It appears that you aren't totally honest and you're bringing up something

at the end of the process that should have been covered earlier or not at all.

You know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Some of this stuff shouldn't have ever been covered in the first

place, so that's how you can lose it.

So what's, after you have established trust, what's the next step?

The next step is to go through what we call a sales process.

Okay.

The only people who really succeed in sales are those who have a sales process.

And what is your next step after building trust?

Okay.

The next step is to move towards agreeing on how I can help you solve your problem.

Do I understand your problem?

Yes.

You do.

Okay.

How.

Can I help you solve the problem?

I have three options.

Okay.

I heard you say X, Y, Z, option A covers that.

I also heard you say X, Y, Z, BBC Option two covers that.

And furthermore, I heard A, B, C, X, Y, Z, Q R, S.

Okay.

And option three covers that.

Which of those three options would be best for you?

Yeah.

Dennis, I'm gonna I wanna summarize some of the things

I've heard you say this morning.

We are in a period of distrust for a variety of societal reasons.

None of none of which may be our fault.

But it also has an impact on sales and salespeople.

And perhaps the greatest shortcoming for a salesperson is to through their

language and their actions, is to display self-serving motivations.

Yes.

And w we've talked about relationship building validating objections

and being a great listener.

As a way as some of the ways to build trust with your potential client.

I love your, one of your last points about stop talking because

I'm guilty of that myself.

You feel like you're, you.

I think what happens is you feel like, oh man, I got a

great relationship going here.

And then you start talking about more stuff instead of just

shutting the heck up and closing.

Yeah.

I could say anything now.

Yeah.

Right, right, right.

And finally, I think the most important part of all of this is

that you need to have a process.

You can't go into things willy-nilly.

You need to practice, you need to listen and you have to follow that process so

that you don't do some a bunch of these things that can hamper your efforts.

Wow, Dave, you're a great listener.

You understand my situation, and you just delivered three proofs of listening.

You paraphrased, you summarized, and you asked fabulous follow up questions.

You my friend, are a great listener.

Dennis, thanks so much for your wisdom and insight today, folks.

That's a wrap on this episode of Connect and Convert, the podcast

that lets you behind the curtain with some insider strategies for

small business sales success.

This is Dave Salter with Dennis Collins.

Thanks for joining us and we'll see you next time when we discuss,

Habits of Ineffective Salespeople.