[00:00:00] Eric Goranson: It's around the house appliance store. What happens is yeah. Any one of those appliance stores they show up and you're like, okay, I'm gonna need those. Now in three weeks, what can happen is, is that you've got your appliances there with your name on 'em shrink, wrapped up. What can happen is, is that appliance store goes, Hey.

[00:00:20] Eric Goranson: Our big builder customer that that does $2 million a year with us or $500,000 a year with us has a damaged fridge. And we need one. I've seen this happen. This happens ever. Oh, take it from the, go take it from Eric gons and stuff. He doesn't need it in three weeks. I'll we'll just reorder it.

[00:00:35] Caroline Blazovsky: This just happened with the washing machine I purchased.

[00:00:37] Caroline Blazovsky: I went in, I wanted to buy one immediately. They had somebody's order sitting right there. They're like, this is Mrs. Jones. She's not gonna come pick it up for two days. You take it

[00:00:46] Eric Goranson: when it comes to remodeling and renovating your home. There is a lot to know though. We've got you covered. This is around the house.

[00:00:55] Eric Goranson: Welcome to around the house with Eric G and Caroline B, where we talk [00:01:00] about everything around your house, every single weekend. Thanks for joining us. Hey, Caroline. What's new with you. Hello

[00:01:07] Caroline Blazovsky: everyone. Hello? Hello.

[00:01:09] Eric Goranson: We're gonna dive into something that I've done for 30 years, which is kitchen design. This is gonna be fun today, and this is

[00:01:19] Caroline Blazovsky: no, this is awesome.

[00:01:19] Caroline Blazovsky: Cuz I'm gonna get all the secrets. Like I want the nitty gritty secrets. I don't want the stuff that everybody knows. I want the stuff that nobody knows.

[00:01:27] Eric Goranson: So we're gonna talk about that today. We're gonna talk about my five top tips. that nobody talks about when you want to design and upgrade that kitchen before you start that project, these are five things that people forget to tell you.

[00:01:41] Eric Goranson: You might not know. And maybe even if you've done a couple remodels in the past, you might not know these things. So we're gonna dive into those today.

[00:01:50] Caroline Blazovsky: Things you don't think about. Absolutely. But you need to

[00:01:52] Eric Goranson: know let's jump right into the first one here. Hire a kitchen designer. I don't care if you've [00:02:00] done three kitchens before in the past, you should hire a kitchen designer, cuz it's going to save you money every single time you do this.

[00:02:12] Caroline Blazovsky: So why don't people, hi, hire a kitchen designer. Like, so I would think you would just automatically wanna do it because you're gonna get the latest and the greatest and the newest. And they're gonna turn you on to things that you wouldn't think about, but why

[00:02:25] Eric Goranson: don't people do it? You know, it's funny a lot of people go in there and they'll walk into the home center and they'll talk to the person in there, the kitchen bath person, cuz it's, you know, the people in the, in the home center are hourly employees.

[00:02:37] Eric Goranson: They're not paid on commission. They honestly don't care if they sell you a kitchen or not. So it's this super low pressure. I'm gonna go explore it kind of thing. So it's easy, comfortable for people to walk in and do this. And the problem is, is in most cases, that's kind of the place where either kitchen designers are born, where people go, Hey, I [00:03:00] was in the paint department last week.

[00:03:01] Eric Goranson: They transferred me to the kitchen department. I'm now a quote designer. And I'm kind of really starting to like this kitchen design thing. So that's where kitchen designers are born. And I also say it's where they go retire because the ones that can't sell or have lots of problems end up going there, cuz they kind of burn out of the independent kitchen of bath designers out there.

[00:03:23] Eric Goranson: Now there are good people there. I mean let's, I'm not gonna bag every single one of the people in the home centers. But they're hard to find that are really good designers. The other

[00:03:32] thing

[00:03:32] Caroline Blazovsky: that I heard the other day, and I love my friend, I love her. Her husband's handy. He is up in the plumbing field.

[00:03:39] Caroline Blazovsky: Okay. Steam pipe fitter, but I heard her say. I just think I'm gonna do this myself. I have so many things around the house that I'm gonna do. And I was like, no, mm-hmm . I said, don't do it. She's like, I need a kitchen remodel. She's like, why can't I just do it? She goes, half these contractors don't know what they're doing.

[00:03:55] Caroline Blazovsky: They come in and they make more problems. I'm just, we can do it ourselves. And I just cringed. [00:04:00] I'm like, no, you need to talk to Eric.

[00:04:01] Eric Goranson: No, exactly. No. Well, and here's what happens. So what a designer does, and this is what happens and I, and I'll back up here, cuz this is a, this is a big one to talk about here.

[00:04:11] Eric Goranson: A good kitchen designer. That's gone to maybe two years of school to be a designer. It still takes them another year to get really good at their craft. So they're reliable, dependable. When I used to hire designers that were fresh out of a four year design school. I'd go. Okay. It's gonna be a year before.

[00:04:31] Eric Goranson: They're really performing flawlessly. So that's maybe 15, 20, 30, 50 kitchens they've designed before they get good. And you as a homeowner with no education in it, maybe having one or two under your belt, it's gonna get expensive. Cuz you're making mistake. With your wallet and most of the time, good point.

[00:04:52] Eric Goranson: Most of the time you copy that kitchen that was built in 1977, that was [00:05:00] designed for 1977 appliances, 1977 equipment that you had put in that kitchen. You design it the exact same way that you had it, but you just put new stuff in it. You go, okay, I'm gonna put the sink here. I'm gonna put the dishwasher here.

[00:05:13] Eric Goranson: That's. Four bank of drawers is I'm gonna do it exactly how I had it, because you don't have any experience of looking in the space going, oh, we gotta do this way differently to make this functional. So all you do is recreate the same bad design with new pieces by putting the exact same thing back in it.

[00:05:28] Eric Goranson: That sounds like what I wanna

[00:05:28] Caroline Blazovsky: do in my kitchen, cuz I'm being lazy and I'm like, oh, I don't wanna redesign it. You know, a design's okay. See, I'll just put new stuff in, but Eric's advised me that that is not a

[00:05:40] Eric Goranson: good plan. It's not because you gotta think about, let's go back into history here. If you've got a 1970s kitchen, maybe you walked into Sears or one of those places or, or a Macy's, you know, wherever you got stuff outta their kitchen apartment, you didn't have the, the Williams [00:06:00] Sonomas you didn't have all of these.

[00:06:02] Eric Goranson: Places or, you know, walking into Creighton barrel or one of these places that had all these really cool accessories that you put in your kitchen. I mean, you might have a big mixer. You might have, you know, some spoons and stuff, but you didn't have all the little blenders and mixers and all the cool little tools that you have today.

[00:06:20] Eric Goranson: Now you're storing twice as many things in that same size kitchen. You've gotta have a home for

[00:06:25] Caroline Blazovsky: all of it. And even like my kitchen. Was redone in, you know, 1990. So it's not that old, right. It's not ancient, but everything's changed. Yeah, technology's changed.

[00:06:36] Eric Goranson: Yeah. And how you use that space is different, you know, for instance.

[00:06:40] Eric Goranson: And the other thing is many times when a homeowner jumps in, on this stuff, even when they've done two or three kitchens in their past, There's a lot of mistakes are made where they made a decision and it was the most expensive way to do it. Or they made a mistake that they have to go back to the store and buy two or three more products.

[00:06:56] Eric Goranson: And they get stuck with the old one cuz they can't return it. Maybe it [00:07:00] was custom or whatever, and those mistakes end up costing them more money than what if they would've just bought a designer. That's got the experience that has the knowledge that can help schedule the project that can make sure that they're getting a good buy on.

[00:07:13] Eric Goranson: I mean, great example. I've seen there's a contractor used to work with ref construction here in Portland. I was his designer for years, big kitchen, a bathroom modeler in the area, and he would only mark up his materials in this contractor would only mark the materials up 15%. For him handling it, managing it, all that stuff.

[00:07:33] Eric Goranson: Well, he was getting a 30, 40, 40 5% discount. So the homeowners were already get a product that was gonna be cheaper than what they could get, but he was managing the process. So he was the one, if something was wrong, he wasn't having to send the homeowner to the store to go get it right. That's where having the right people on your team make a huge difference.

[00:07:54] Eric Goranson: And I was gonna

[00:07:54] Caroline Blazovsky: say like, just, I remember doing a particular kitchen and. [00:08:00] The dishwasher, they ended up changing the dishwasher. Something happened, it was a, it was a size thing. And then it ended up being a huge gap in the flooring because the flooring they had allocated was supposed to go up to the old dishwasher and it left a substantial gap.

[00:08:14] Caroline Blazovsky: So then it became a problem how they were gonna redo that those little things get

[00:08:18] Eric Goranson: so expensive and there's so many of 'em, uh, great example. Uh, one of the biggest gotchas in kitchen about the design today is that, uh, you know, the French door refrigerators, right, where you got the, the two doors up top and you got the drawers down below many of those French door refrigerators.

[00:08:33] Eric Goranson: They don't tell you if you have that up against an end wall that you need 5, 6, 8 inches to open that up beyond 90 degrees. To get the crispers out. and I mean, I've had to call manufacturers like in the past, like LG, Samsung guys, like that, that make good quality products. I'd have to get on the phone and call them and go, okay, what is the offset of that refrigerator?

[00:08:58] Eric Goranson: When the door is [00:09:00] open enough to get the crispers open. And literally I had somebody. Maybe it was a Whirlpool or GE or somebody that had to run downstairs outta their call center and go open up one and measure it, cuz it wasn't in there backs . But as a homeowner, designing your own kitchen, you're not gonna that you don't know that.

[00:09:14] Eric Goranson: Right? Exactly. So to fix that is you get this kitchen done, the appliances show up at the end, slide it in the hole. You go to load the thing up and you're like, well, I can't put anything in these bottom crispers cuz the door won't open all the wax you got, you got granite countertops in. All right, we come back.

[00:09:31] Eric Goranson: Carolyn, uh, this man, this first one went quick. We'll jump into one of my top secrets. That'll save you. Huge headaches of not having a kitchen. We'll do that just as soon as we're out the house,

[00:09:48] Eric Goranson: be loud, be so hot, hot. So many people.

[00:09:59] Eric Goranson: Hey, I'm Rudy [00:10:00] Wade. And you're listening to around the house with Eric G and Caroline B, listen to my music to improve your home. I hit your line. You got me thinking about the days we move alone. You have me singing in your head. Like welcome back to the round, the house show. We talk about everything around the house.

[00:10:17] Eric Goranson: Hey, before we get into this topic here, what we're talking about? Those top secrets before you start designing that kitchen remodel. Wanted to say, Hey, make sure you follow us on social media, around the house show just about every social media platform and then on the podcast, make sure you're following us.

[00:10:32] Eric Goranson: Subscribe. If you're on, if you're on iTunes or, or, uh, apple, Spotify, Spotify, all those things, just make sure you're following us. And that way you get the midweek special and the stuff that doesn't end up on the radio. And then you can take a look at that anytime you listen to it. Well, Caroline, you and I have been talking about kitchen remodeling here and, and bef the things you do before you get started.

[00:10:53] Eric Goranson: Right. And you're

[00:10:54] Caroline Blazovsky: telling us the things that we never knew about

[00:10:57] Eric Goranson: the secrets. This is the fun stuff to me, cuz you know, I've got [00:11:00] 30 years of kitchen and, and bath design experience from owning my own company to turning around, uh, kitchen cabinet shops and that kind of stuff. So I've, I've kind of seen it and done it all with that, which was a lot of fun.

[00:11:13] Eric Goranson: Before I started doing this full time. So our next one, you know, our last one and the last segment was, make sure you hire a kitchen designer. Cause it'll save you every time. This next one is, get all your materials at the job site before you start. I

[00:11:27] Caroline Blazovsky: do this, I'm raising my hand. I actually do this. Yeah.

[00:11:30] Caroline Blazovsky: Um, but I'm like one of those weird prepared people, like I've gotta know what I'm gonna need and have it all there.

[00:11:38] Eric Goranson: Not bad. It's a big one, especially with kitchens, because I can't tell you how many times in my career I've had a husband walk in, not knowing what they're doing. Hey, I demoed the kitchen today.

[00:11:51] Eric Goranson: I'm here to get some cabinets. Um, my wife's out of town. I wanted to do her kitchen this week. Um, sir, all of our cabinets [00:12:00] are six to 12 weeks out. So we can design you on and maybe get something ordered for you next week, but you're gonna be a couple months without a kitchen. And then the panic comes in.

[00:12:13] Eric Goranson: So getting the materials, especially today where we have product shortages, lead time issues. I mean, many of the brands in the home centers now are three and four months out from the day you order a cabinet. For it to show up at, at your doorstep. So if you're

[00:12:32] Caroline Blazovsky: ordering it from the kitchen and bath designer or kitchen and bath showroom, just make sure they have it in there and they're holding it for you before they deliver.

[00:12:41] Caroline Blazovsky: No, I want it at the job site. Oh, do you, so where are you supposed to store that? If you have to store it in your house, so you don't have

[00:12:46] Eric Goranson: a room garage living room wherever that's bad. I mean, it, it needs to be, and, and here's why here's a couple things. I wanna see that at the job site I have had this happen, I have had.

[00:12:58] Eric Goranson: In my career, [00:13:00] four kitchens that were either being on their way delivered to the dealer, which would be the kitchen, a bath showroom or whatever you're working with or home center or on the delivery to the residence where the truck got into accidents. No way four times. I ha that's a lot. Yeah. Four times.

[00:13:23] Eric Goranson: One of them was the truck was on winy roads on a two-lane state highway slid off, and the truck was loaded with cabinets and tile and things like that. It went over and landed on its side and the kitchen cabinets were in that truck. So they actually towed the truck to our location and we had to go through and dig.

[00:13:47] Eric Goranson: Stuff and see what was in there. Some of the tile was good. Cabinets were,

[00:13:51] Caroline Blazovsky: were, they didn't just like credit you and give you new stuff. They made you dig

[00:13:54] Eric Goranson: through like, well, it was, this was a old, this was an, this, you know, this was an accident. They [00:14:00] brought it over there because it was the company's warehouse truck that was bringing it there.

[00:14:05] Eric Goranson: So that was our drivers technically. So they brought it back there and we had to go through the, oh no, 40 foot semi truck. Get that outta there. Um, I've had containers of cabinets that were shipped across country, uh, where, where it got into an accident and cabinets were damaged. I've had cabinets fall off the back of a truck.

[00:14:23] Eric Goranson: You know, you're delivering the pantry cabinet and the guy out there is scooting around and he loses it on the back lift and it goes falling off and lands on his side, seeing that happen, a dozen dimes on delivery. Um, so those are all things that I wanna see it there. I wanna see, you know, the appliances that are at the.

[00:14:41] Eric Goranson: The location. And here's a trick with appliances these days, guys, and this is why you want to have your appliances delivered as soon as you can get them to the house. And if you gotta, I mean, if you gotta get a container dropped in your driveway to store it, do it. Hmm. Because here's why interesting, like [00:15:00] with appliances, for instance, and I've seen this happen a dozen times.

[00:15:03] Eric Goranson: You'll order your appliance package from either a home center or a, you know, reputable, large retailer appliance store. What happens is yeah. Any one of those appliance stores they show up. And you're like, okay, I'm gonna need those. Now in three weeks, what can happen is, is that you've got your appliances there with your name on 'em shrink, wrapped up.

[00:15:22] Eric Goranson: What can happen is, is that appliance store goes, Hey, our big builder customer, that, that does $2 million a year with us, or $500,000 a year with us has a damaged fridge. And we need one. I've seen this happen. This happens, oh, go take it from the, go take it from Eric gons and stuff. He doesn't need it in three weeks.

[00:15:38] Eric Goranson: I'll we'll just reor. This

[00:15:40] Caroline Blazovsky: just happened with the washing machine I purchased, I went in, I wanted to buy one immediately. They had somebody's order sitting right there. They're like, this is Mrs. Jones. She's not gonna come pick it up for two days. You take it and we'll order her another one. I mean, this just happened.

[00:15:53] Caroline Blazovsky: See,

[00:15:54] Eric Goranson: yeah, that's how that works. And so my belief is get it outta there cuz they're [00:16:00] trying to make the sale or they've got somebody that's gonna make that they don't wanna lose. That's gonna take a huge thing. And you're just the homeowner. You're you're the one that's gonna get nailed on that. And you're gonna be without an appliance.

[00:16:11] Eric Goranson: So get it at the job site. Good point.

[00:16:14] Caroline Blazovsky: Where'd you store all your stuff when you did your kitchen. See, I'm dreading this out. Oh, my

[00:16:17] Eric Goranson: garage was packed full. Oh man. It was a joke. I had it. I had appliances in the living room. I had cabinets in the garage. I had it stacked up everywhere because I wasn't gonna get into that.

[00:16:31] Eric Goranson: Get stuck. And I could not, I did not take the sink and the other stuff out of there until I had those here.

[00:16:38] Caroline Blazovsky: See, but that's why people dread like construction. I dread it because I know at my whole life is gonna be in disarray during this time period. Yeah.

[00:16:45] Eric Goranson: So let's, let's dive into the next one. Because we're gonna have to do this, this one since we got five and of course, four segments today.

[00:16:52] Eric Goranson: I wanna slide this one in right here, cuz this is gonna be a big one. Number three, you will need plumbing and electrical upgrades. [00:17:00] When you do a history model, 90% of the time, this is huge.

[00:17:04] Caroline Blazovsky: I just asked Eric coming into the show. Even if you had an upgrade recently, you're still gonna have to have a GFC outlet,

[00:17:12] Eric Goranson: right.

[00:17:13] Eric Goranson: For GFC outlet. Yeah. For, yeah. So anything near water, you have to have those GFC outlets, but that's not, that's, that's easy. That's a, a $30 part. Right. But the problem is. Is new electrical code and yes, you should be following this. You know, I would recommend pulling a permit for this. You need to upgrade your electrical.

[00:17:34] Eric Goranson: Here's why in most seventies and eighties homes in the kitchen, the outlets in the lights were on the same circuit that doesn't meet national code anymore. Outlets have to be on one circuit. The lighting has to be on another. Is there

[00:17:47] Caroline Blazovsky: a safety, is it a safety

[00:17:49] Eric Goranson: thing? Mm-hmm well, I mean, if you're, if you're using a mixer or something and it kicks the outlet, the, the power off and you're cooking and it kick takes the lights out with it, that could be a safety hazard there mm-hmm[00:18:00]

[00:18:00] Eric Goranson: Yeah. And with LEDs and stuff and smart switches and stuff like that, that can be troublesome sometimes with some of these GCIS and stuff. You've had some issues with those, but here's the big one. Every appliance has to be on its own circuit. So your refrigerator, its own circuit. So it's own breaker, your microwave, its own breaker, your dishwasher, its own breaker.

[00:18:24] Eric Goranson: Mm. Garbage disposal. It's on breaker. Oh my gosh. And here we go down the list and the more things you add. And there's a few other, when we come back here, let's talk about the other hidden things on the electrical side of things. Before we get to plumbing, we'll do that just as soon as a round, the house returns.

[00:18:55] Eric Goranson: Hey guys, you're listening to around the house with Eric, Jean Caroline, B [00:19:00] Zeke sky. And I'm gonna show you how to shred it out while you're building it up.

[00:19:12] Eric Goranson: Welcome back to the, around the house show or we are your home improvement answer every single week. Well, Caroline and I have been talking about kitchen remodeling, designing that kitchen out.

[00:19:25] Caroline Blazovsky: I just had a mind blow. Eric went P my brain he told me something. Tell him what you told me.

[00:19:32] Eric Goranson: All right. So we're talking about electrical here and which is number three in our list.

[00:19:36] Eric Goranson: Uh, number one was higher. Kitchen designer. Number two was get all the materials before you start, but we're talking about all the plumbing and electrical upgrades you will have to do almost all the time when you're doing this kitchen model. And what we were talking about before went on to break was that many times you're gonna need four or five new circuits to that kitchen.

[00:19:58] Eric Goranson: When you put that new [00:20:00] kitchen in, because every appliance like your microwave, your dishwasher, can't be sharing circuits anymore. They have to be on their own dedicated circuit. So now you have to run home, run electrical all the way back to your panel. And of course you have to have room in that panel to.

[00:20:18] Caroline Blazovsky: Yeah, but what appliance did you tell me coming into the break that needs its own circuit and almost

[00:20:23] Eric Goranson: flipped out. Yeah. I mean, if you have an Insta hot or a wine fridge or anything like that, many times Insta hot, who would

[00:20:29] Caroline Blazovsky: suspect Insta hot needs its own circuit.

[00:20:31] Eric Goranson: Well, think about that thing could be pulling 10 or 15 amps just by itself.

[00:20:36] Eric Goranson: Shoot, you know, it's a little tiny water heater, right? Yeah. So, oh, I get it. Yeah. So depending on the one you get. You know, and, and there's ones now that heat and cool water. So they even use more power cuz you've got a heating circuit and a cooling circuit. See? So that's the key one. If you don't know now here's another one when you're designing, cuz you know, so many [00:21:00] people go, oh, I'm gonna cut off that eating bar that comes around as a you or an owl.

[00:21:06] Eric Goranson: And I'm gonna put in an island. well, guess what? You now have to run one or two outlets over to that island, cuz you have to put electrical outlets in the island for that if it's a permanently mounted island. So if it's fastened into the floor, you now have to have outlets. Mm-hmm like every, you know, check your local building code, but every three or four feet, you have to have an outlet there.

[00:21:34] Eric Goranson: Now here's the other thing. If you put a sink in that aisle, like a little prep sink, you now have to have an outlet on either side, cuz that's an obstruction, which means you can't run an outlet, a cord over the sink to do it on the other side to prep. So now you have to have two outlets in

[00:21:51] Caroline Blazovsky: guys, girls get a kitchen

[00:21:53] designer,

[00:21:54] Eric Goranson: see that's the key right there.

[00:21:56] Eric Goranson: Right? This is insane.

[00:21:58] Caroline Blazovsky: So you'll never know this

[00:21:59] Eric Goranson: [00:22:00] ever. And what happens though sometimes is you're in there. And you're designing this out and you go, oh my gosh, where am I gonna put that outlet? Because I, I have it here on the side, but I don't really have a place to put it over here, cuz I've got an L shape and it's all one level.

[00:22:17] Eric Goranson: So sometimes you have to do like popup ones in the, in the, in the countertop that pop up that you can plug into. Sometimes you have to put in, in, you know, on the face of the cabinet, which I think is the worst option. Where you have to lose a drawer front and put an outlet there. So there's, there's a lot to that, getting those correct outlets in the right spot.

[00:22:36] Caroline Blazovsky: That's why when I go into houses and I see a lot of houses that are, have been flipped, I see some weird stuff that happens. It just doesn't look logical. And this is why. Yeah.

[00:22:46] Eric Goranson: Now plumbing's the same way when you go add. That sink in there. Maybe you've got, you're adding that prep sink in the island now.

[00:22:54] Eric Goranson: Well, now you've got venting issues that you have to worry about with code. What you're gonna do there. Maybe the [00:23:00] vent is too far away. So you have to put your own vent in that. Um, you know, maybe that plumbing that was 30 years old, when you go to tie into it is in really poor shape. So anytime that you're doing that stuff, if you've got like old galvanized pipe, that's the time to rip it out and replace it behind that wall.

[00:23:18] Eric Goranson: Good time to do all those things. Mm-hmm

[00:23:21] Caroline Blazovsky: and then, you know, I'm even forgetting about HVAC and all the things you have to worry about with ducking and your HVAC vents. And if you have to move event, that's a nightmare too,

[00:23:29] Eric Goranson: you know, HVAC. Oh, my house, it was a nightmare. Cause I have a 1200 CFM hood and I had to run that through the ceiling and I had plumbing and cuz the bathroom's above it.

[00:23:36] Eric Goranson: So I had all the plumbing and stuff up there in that floor. And when you have to go run a, a 10 inch or 12 inch duct through a 10 inch space. It's not good, not good. You don't have enough room to get all that through there. So, and all

[00:23:52] Caroline Blazovsky: your registers and all of your, you know, conditioning spaces, everything has to get moved.

[00:23:56] Caroline Blazovsky: When you do a kitchen, then you might have to run extra duct work, move

[00:23:59] Eric Goranson: [00:24:00] things. Mm-hmm absolutely. So that's, that's a big one right there. That's a big one right there. So those are things you gotta be really careful of. You know? I mean, this is one of those things that it can be very expensive and let's go into one more thing on electrical that you and I talked before the show on you're starting to see ovens that are coming from Europe, like Mila or even I haven't seen this exactly with this brand.

[00:24:27] Eric Goranson: Like a lot of the Electrolux stuff's coming from Europe, their ovens, like a built in wall oven. Take four wires. So it takes the two hots for the two 20. It takes a neutral and a ground. Well, all homes up until 10 years ago or so, depending on the area in those were wired, like your house was wired with a three wire, right?

[00:24:50] Eric Goranson: So if you go, Hey, I wanna put a Mila double oven in it's the same electrical, it's a 40 amp circuit. I'm putting a 40 amp oven thing. I'm good. Installer [00:25:00] shows up and goes, ha. You got three wires, you need another neutral to run all the way back to the panel. And that appliance will not work with a three wire setup.

[00:25:12] Eric Goranson: It will not let you share that ground of neutral, cuz it's looking for it. Cuz it's smart. So you will go. And now you're sitting there. We had to do this for a client. Geez. 15 years ago. He changed appliances at the end, made it fit the same opening. Didn't catch it. And, uh, he had to have his electrician run about 110 feet of wire drilling through concrete.

[00:25:37] Eric Goranson: It was on the waterfront to get that wire back to the main panel to have that extra wire. And

[00:25:44] Caroline Blazovsky: think about the expense on that just

[00:25:46] Eric Goranson: by itself. It's thousands of dollars he spent. Mm-hmm just to get that wire run back there. Because they were opening up walls and rooms that were finished. It was very expensive all from that [00:26:00] appliance.

[00:26:00] Eric Goranson: Right. So, yeah. Oh, I saved $200 in the oven. Got my high end oven, but now I just spent two grand on the electrician to get the wire run out there. So that's, that's a big one big one right there. So make sure you're doing that. Make sure you've got the right power. Make sure that you've got the right. Plug to do all this stuff.

[00:26:22] Eric Goranson: And with plumbing, this is the time to fix it. You know, so many times people put that ice maker in, and maybe it came out of the basement with the old, like saddle tap that they tapped into the half inch water line that was going to the sink and they. You know, MacGyver did to go up to do that. Now this is the time that you put that box in the wall with that that's plumbed up there and done, right?

[00:26:44] Eric Goranson: This is the time that you do all that stuff and make sure that you pre-wire for stuff always add when you have the wall open, always add that stuff. Maybe you're not doing under cabinet lighting now, but run some low voltage. So you can run under cabinet lighting later, [00:27:00] you know, planning ahead for this.

[00:27:02] Caroline Blazovsky: To call the electrician, like when you're doing a project like this, and I'm confused even on doing my hot tub, swim spa, like when does the electrician come out? Is it first? Yeah, I wanna a design

[00:27:12] Eric Goranson: process. Well, basically you wanna design it out and come up with your plan first and then bring out those trades.

[00:27:19] Eric Goranson: So if you've got a, a remodeler, that's doing it for you. So if you're working with a kitchen designer and a contractor, they're gonna bring 'em out first thing. So once you get the design hammered out and they know what's gonna happen, You're foolish to come in and do it, do it before then. Cuz you're not getting numbers on something equally.

[00:27:36] Eric Goranson: One personal. If you have like three different designs, you're gonna get three different numbers. So you wanna make sure that you've got those, then they can come out and say, okay, I'm going to do exactly this. So I know what this is gonna cost. And then they can give you estimates based off of that.

[00:27:52] Eric Goranson: That's the key right there. Gotcha. That's the key. So you're good at that point and that'll get you where you're lined up and you can get those numbers. [00:28:00] So like with your kitchen, you get the designed out, you have the plumber, come in, you have the electrician come in, you know, maybe you have your HVAC person come in for ducting, that kind of stuff.

[00:28:09] Eric Goranson: Figure out what you're going to do, where it's gonna go and, uh, get the numbers locked in with that and get hard estimate. That's gonna be the key. All right. We come back here. We've got a few more here. This is gonna be interesting. We got some good stuff. We'll do that just as soon as, so round the house returns.[00:29:00]

[00:29:07] Eric Goranson: Hi everybody. I'm a man from Apolis band and you are listening to around the house with Eric G and the beautiful Caroline. Welcome back to the round, the house show, or we talk everything about your home every single week. Thanks for joining us. If you're just joining us, we've been talking about my five tips you should be doing when you design out that kitchen.

[00:29:32] Eric Goranson: If you're thinking about designing a kitchen, these are those things that, uh, well, Probably nobody's told you about that'll save you money and a lot of headaches that you should know before you start the process. Instead of somebody dropping on you going, what are you kidding? And

[00:29:47] Caroline Blazovsky: why do we wanna listen to Eric?

[00:29:49] Caroline Blazovsky: You need to tell them a little bit about your background for people who don't listen to the show regularly. He is king.

[00:29:55] Eric Goranson: There we go. Okay. Just tell us. Yeah. So I'm a certified kitchen designer [00:30:00] through the national kitchen of bath association. If you're, we probably should have talked about this in the first segment, but that's a great place to find kitchen designers that is where people in north America.

[00:30:12] Eric Goranson: Go to get certified to be a certified kitchen of bath designer or a master certified kitchen of bath designer. I'm a certified kitchen designer. I got that certification in 1999 to date myself and I had to have eight years of experience before I could even take the test. So that tells you how long I've been doing

[00:30:30] Caroline Blazovsky: until you need that experience.

[00:30:32] Caroline Blazovsky: Like, I believe that I don't think that people just come out. You know, you're young, you've got the energy, but there is nothing that replaces experience we have worked on so many different projects. It makes us just so worldly. We've seen everything or we've seen a lot. Let's put it that way.

[00:30:47] Eric Goranson: Yeah. There's nothing that really surprises me anymore.

[00:30:50] Eric Goranson: That I go, I hadn't seen that happen before. I mean, I had cabinets one time delivered via helicopter onto the rooftop to get 'em. [00:31:00] Yeah. So I've, I've seen a lot of different stuff happen. Let's put it that way. So number four on this list is a big one. I wanna blast through these here and get that right information out to everybody.

[00:31:12] Eric Goranson: It's gonna be more expensive than you think it is. Yeah. So great example across the country. Here's some average. A minor kit tree model, which I call fluff and buff. You're just kind of cleaning stuff up. The average job cost of that is $28,279 to kind of take what you have there and clean it up. Maybe upgrade it a little bit.

[00:31:36] Eric Goranson: Now, if you're gonna do a, what I would call low end kitchen and kitchen, I'm talking a, a major tree model. That is a low end one. I'm not talking, having granite or quartz tops. I'm talking about having like vinyl flooring, laminate, countertops, nothing super cool. Right? That [00:32:00] average across the us is $80,800 push.

[00:32:04] Caroline Blazovsky: Well, I told you my dad completely, my dad, the home with beach Delaware, he called me, his mind was blown. They quoted him 179,000 to do the kitchen. And this was not anything extravaga. But he did have some, you know, he had a move event fan and he had well, actually install event fan, but you know, that's not, he was not doing anything crazy and he couldn't believe it.

[00:32:26] Caroline Blazovsky: And he's 77. He doesn't wanna really spend $179,000 at this point to do a kitchen. But this is the going rate.

[00:32:33] Eric Goranson: No, I get it. I get it. You know, and a, in an upscale one, the average upscale kitchen remodel, this isn't like your 10 million home. This is your average upscale tree model. 150, $8,000. That's it across the us.

[00:32:48] Eric Goranson: That's that's where he is. Yeah. So that's the average. So that's putting in like the, maybe the woo for the subzero that's putting in the granite countertops. That's putting in the tile floor. [00:33:00] That's putting in under cabinet lighting. That's all the normal stuff that if you watch HD TV that you wanna put in the, I never quit

[00:33:05] Caroline Blazovsky: working.

[00:33:06] Caroline Blazovsky: I will never quit working.

[00:33:08] Eric Goranson: See, sorry. it's never gonna happen. Well, it's, it's just, it's what it is. And there could be stuff hidden. Now, one thing I want talk about that's the hidden stuff out there, and this is gonna be a little sidebar for, it's gonna be more expensive when you're talking to a contractor.

[00:33:27] Eric Goranson: You are paying them for their expertise. I have seen plenty of kitchen and bathroom modelers across the country. That'll come in and let's say, I'll make up a, a client Mrs. Smith, keep it simple. She goes out and gets three bids for this kitchen for her and her husband. First guy, $70,000. Next guy, 95. Next guy, 150.

[00:33:56] Eric Goranson: Guy, the guy at 70 gives her the pitch. Oh, I do this for a living. [00:34:00] It's great. They're just overcharging you. She goes with him. The problem with that is, is there is a business model for some kitchen and bathroom modelers out there that our, I call the, the change order Kings. Oh, we pulled the permits on it.

[00:34:18] Eric Goranson: We had no idea. You needed five extra outlets, five extra things for your kitchen. You needed five circuits. So we had no idea, sorry. Well, you should have you're the professional. You should have known that, but then they go, oh, that's a change order to $10,000. Cuz we gotta upgrade your panel and uh, put this stuff in and now we're running wire everywhere.

[00:34:41] Eric Goranson: These guys end up being more money. Then the top guy that you said no to that you thought was ripping you off. Now, Caroline number five is a big one here, and this is one that we gotta hit on because it's just so important. Those new appliance requirements, great example, let's say, and this happened to my house.

[00:34:58] Eric Goranson: So if you've got a, a [00:35:00] 30 inch range and you go, man, I wanna go pro profile. I want it to look sweet. I wanna go with the commercial, maybe a regular range to a 30 inch pro style range or a 36 or a 48, or man, you're going crazy with a 60. You have to figure out those new gas requirements for that Uhuh many times that little half inch line that's going there.

[00:35:22] Eric Goranson: Not gonna work. You need a big, not gonna work, not enough BTUs. Maybe you need a three quarter inch. Maybe you need a one inch. And now here's the other part of that. The distance to the meter matters longer. The distance. The bigger the pipe. Mm-hmm, interesting because some of these things, if you turn on five burners and, and even worse, if it's got a gas oven, you're gonna need so much gas in there.

[00:35:52] Eric Goranson: You don't wanna starve out your water heater. That's gas, right. Oh, true. And now that could be a whole carbon monoxide issue over there. Yes. [00:36:00] So it's a huge safety concern. You can't just do that now. Here's the problem. When you go to do that, your meter might be a small meter. You might not have enough gas flow coming through there.

[00:36:15] Eric Goranson: So now you go to call the gas company and have 'em come out and replace that meter. Or

[00:36:19] Caroline Blazovsky: if you're like me and Eric too, had this instance, my gas meter is located in the garage. And guess what? When they come and see that to make a change, they wanna move the gas meter now. So you're not getting anything done until the gas meter goes out.

[00:36:33] Caroline Blazovsky: And that's another. $3,004,000, or maybe they'll do it for free in my case, they wanna, but

[00:36:40] Eric Goranson: yeah, still same here. Mine was in the carport because 25 years ago they pulled a permit. Did the carport and the gas company went, ah, it's fine. No need to move it. We have access. It's just a carport. We're fine. Now they go, wow.

[00:36:53] Eric Goranson: We don't want the carport. Cause we don't have to have our guy go in there. Mm-hmm or lady go in there and walk through the carport to go get [00:37:00] that because there's a car in the carport. They don't wanna walk past the car cuz there's a liability. They don't wanna scratch that. So that's the other part when they go manually read that meter.

[00:37:09] Eric Goranson: Mm. So these are all those issues you gotta watch out for it's all money, money, money. It is. And that's where you gotta be really careful with this stuff and new appliance requirements. You know, like we talked about earlier, you gotta be careful with certain things. I know some people out there love to have the look of a built in oven down below in a cooktop over top.

[00:37:32] Eric Goranson: Instead of having that range. Mm-hmm mm-hmm I want the built in look. So instead of having a 30 inch range, they want the oven that's separate and the cooktop above you have to find specialty appliances that will let you do that. You can't just go get any cooktop in any oven and stack 'em on top for each other.

[00:37:53] Eric Goranson: The oven has to be recessed enough in there to let that go. And the cooktop has to be [00:38:00] thin enough. For you to be able to do that. And

[00:38:02] Caroline Blazovsky: then that's two appliances. So each one needs their own

[00:38:05] Eric Goranson: circuit. Mm-hmm sure. Keep your key. So now you're running two different wires over for that now, you know, and, and it could be that you need a one 10 outlet for the gas, cuz it's just for the igniter.

[00:38:17] Eric Goranson: So there's a lot of different things that run into that. So be careful with those things. And now when you get into specialty appliances, especi, So for instance, if you've got that steam of it, are you getting one that has a water supply to it? Are you filling up the little thing, like your coffee maker to put into that?

[00:38:36] Eric Goranson: Mm-hmm.

[00:38:37] Caroline Blazovsky: It's a lot, like people don't, that's why I'm saying my girlfriend said the other day, oh, we're just gonna do it ourselves. I was like, no, don't do it. Yeah. I'm gonna make her listen to this episode cuz she'll, it's like a mind blow.

[00:38:49] Eric Goranson: This is stuff that can really get you there and get you burned and you gotta be really careful.

[00:38:53] Eric Goranson: Did you do yours when

[00:38:54] Caroline Blazovsky: you redid your kitchen, did you get help or did you do it yourself?

[00:38:58] Eric Goranson: I did it all myself. [00:39:00] Oh see, the only person that helped me on that kitchen was of course the guys putting in the slab countertops. And of course I had William over helping me with the tile, uh, cuz I, you know, he's I know how to do tile, but he's so, so good at it.

[00:39:13] Eric Goranson: And it was fun working with a buddy. Yeah. But that's what it was, but everything else I did on that place, which was a lot of, well look at you and I wanted to film it. So I did a lot of filming for TV with it. You know, we did a lot of projects with that. I hear that music, Caroline. I'm Eric G and I'm Caroline B.

[00:39:28] Eric Goranson: And you've been listening to around the house,