Julie Genjac [00:00:08] John, I've been thinking a lot lately about the longevity that the women in my family have. And I have a great aunt who lived to 104 and a great grandmother that lived to 105. So as I think about my own longevity in my years of retirement, it's it seems a bit overwhelming.

And sometimes I feel like starting to plan and talk about it and watching the experiences that they had is there's so much that I can learn from to apply to my life, but pulling all the pieces together can be really complicated and overwhelming. I don't know if you've had any of those thoughts lately, especially after the couple of years we've all lived through.

John Diehl [00:00:43] Yeah, I think everybody's thinking about it's kind of this new emerging field of longevity planning, if you will. Julie My favorite story years. A couple of years ago, one of the oldest people that ever attended one of my workshops was a 103 year old farmer. We were in the middle of Nebraska. And the funny thing was that the reason he was at my workshop is that his kids thought it would be a good reason for him to come and listen to me. His kids were 82 and 85. So as you start thinking about, you know, what longevity means, different people, it's more than just a couple of numbers on a financial chart. It's it really takes into account a broad swath of what our clients are dealing with today.

Julie Genjac [00:01:24] So true. While I'm really excited to hear from Jonathan today on how to implement longevity planning into one's practice.

John Diehl [00:01:31] I think Jonathan has a lot of good insights. And so Julie, why don't you share with our audience a little bit about Jonathan's background?

Julie Genjac [00:01:38] Jonathan Ainsley is founder and CEO of Invest in You, a leading platform to support individuals living to their full potential. Jonathan started in financial services in London in 1986 as a bond broker, moved to Orlando and in 1999 and has been a resident in central Florida ever since. Following time at SunTrust in 2006, he joined Schwab Institutional as a relationship manager, developing his passion for bringing simple yet powerful solutions to those in his care. And in 2012, he joined Merrill Lynch's practice management consulting group. During this time, the seeds for thought leadership in providing training for longevity advising were sown. In addition, Jonathan became an accredited financial services coach through Client Wise and also became a Gallup certified strength finders coach recognized as a thought leader in the area of flourishing longevity by rethinking 65 dot.com. Jonathan has developed training for financial professionals to provide a fresh perspective on longevity planning. Jonathan has three grown children and twin six year old granddaughters who call him Grumps.

John Diehl [00:02:46] I'm really excited for everyone to listen to Jonathan's insights about how to implement longevity planning into your practice. And so without any further delay. Let's go. Hi, I'm John.

Julie Genjac [00:03:00] And I'm Julie.

John Diehl [00:03:02] We're the hosts of the Hartford Funds Human Centric Investing Podcast.

Julie Genjac [00:03:06] Every other week, we're talking with inspiring thought leaders to hear their best ideas for how you can transform your relationships with your clients.

John Diehl [00:03:16] Let's go.

Julie Genjac [00:03:18] Welcome, Jonathan. Thank you so much for joining us today on our Human Centric Investing podcast.

Jonathan Ainsley [00:03:24] Well, thank you, Julie. I'm very excited to be here.

John Diehl [00:03:26] Well, Jonathan, again, adding my welcome and I think I'll lead us off with a question around this topic of longevity planning, because I don't know, to me it's one of those ubiquitous terms. Maybe some people don't think they're doing it, and they are. Other people think they are doing it and they're not so. But Jonathan, with your expertize in this field of longevity planning, how do you how do you get your arms around it? How do you define it?

Jonathan Ainsley [00:03:52] Well, we define it in is helping people achieve things they never thought were possible. And the context of that, John, is really where we're at in terms of the whole longevity phenomenon. There's a wonderful chart showing life expectancy since 10,000 B.C. that flat lines to about 1900 and is now going parabolic. And most of the experience out there around retirement planning and aging is geared with the 20th century mindset, which is increasingly out of date. So the way we're thinking of longevity is, is really outmoded, and the work we're doing is really revealing that there is just this untapped potential and possibility. And it's really very exciting because it's recreating and reframing the conversations and lighting people up. I mean, it's bringing it's looking beyond the fear and frailty that many people have about their aging and the uncertainty, and it creates a whole new paradigm shift.

Julie Genjac [00:05:03] So, Jonathan, for for financial professionals that that realize that this is a conversation or an area that they really do want to intentionally engage their clients on. And it sounds to me like it needs to be an intentional process. This isn't necessarily something that you just casually bring up here and there. How would that financial professional go about engaging in these conversations or what structure might they put in place as a way to get started? Because obviously there are a lot of things going on, on the on any financial professionals plate on any given day. And to completely transform processes in a practice isn't isn't necessarily logical or feasible. Where would one start in terms of engaging in these longevity planning practice conversations, in your opinion?

Jonathan Ainsley [00:05:53] Well, keeping it simple, people can be very overwhelmed and intimidated. So again, our own morbidity and how we approach that and there's a lot of uncertainty. It's a big unknown. You know, people have been wired to hit 65 and then what? So for the financial professional, you know, the converse thing of that is the tradition of the industry. I've been involved in financial services since the eighties and the drive has always been around the finance. And it's not that the finance doesn't remain important, but technology is taking that over increasingly. So where does the value of the human advisor lie? And so in addressing that, but then also I think especially over the last few years, people are more aware they want a better standard and higher quality advice. And so the shift towards specific longevity and intentionality and really moving beyond retirement, retirement can be a very limiting way of looking at things. And again, it's preconditioning. And so as we're discovering this whole untapped place space, it's creating a value for the advisor that they never knew existed and engaging clients in a way they've never had their clients engage before. So to approach it really from a simplistic thing, I come out of the coaching world as well and we love to overcomplicate things, you know, do this, do this, do this, do this. And you know, at some point people go, Yeah, okay, I've had enough. Thank you. It's the keeping it simple. And that's we've we've discovered this process that is really, really effective because it leaves people wanting more, but also being more engaged.

John Diehl [00:07:39] So, Jonathan, as part of that process, I know you talk about four pillars of retirement planning or. Longevity planning, not retirement planning. I'm thinking maybe it's those pillars that separate longevity planning, or at least giving me a place to start as a financial professional thinking about the direction of those conversations. Describe those four pillars for us, if you will, and give us a little color around those.

Jonathan Ainsley [00:08:06] Oh, sure, John, so that the foundation of finance doesn't go away. So finance is foundational to the whole longevity realm. But the four pillars, which we sort of been

building out over the last ten years, as we've been focusing on this longevity dynamic. And the first one is mindset. So you'll see references to pillars of longevity in your travels. You know, what we're creating here isn't necessarily unique, but the focus we're applying. You may see in other areas where lifestyle is referenced while our lifestyle is dictated by our thinking. So the whole mindset dynamic and the difference you get, we've got a lot of feedback from planners saying, Well, we plan clients to 95 or 100, but the responses, I don't want to be old and decrepit. That's not going to be me. So straight off the bat, the recognition, while more and more people are living longer than they expected, we have this revolution in aging. So the first pillar of the mindset and how we approaching that is very key and fundamental. The second pillar is health and more intentional health. And again, we've sort of drifted you look at this 120 year time span and how we think and how we live and how we behave. We've really not really been trained how to do things or how to be with sort of far more caught up in the vortex of life. And so having a better understanding that the average span of chronic illness in the US is 12.4 years. Well, how many people would willingly vote for 12.4 years of chronic illness? I've heard you reference about the MIT work and research that there is an epidemic of boredom, loneliness and isolation. I seem to recollect that again, how we're looking after ourselves. So, you know, we have a vote, how what I'm putting into my body and how I'm exercising and keeping moving and being more intentional. So that's the second pillar. The third one is really around purpose or ikigai and having that intentionality. But on a longer time frame, a lot of people retire and think, okay, here we go. And they'll go and do something for a period of time. But as my father at 88 speaks of, it's more about time filling. Whereas once you're open to the possibility of 100 or living to 100 and obviously there is no guarantee but purpose, it's not so much about the destination, it's about the journey. And so living purposefully makes a big difference. And that's that's the third pillar. And then finally, the importance of community, those around us. So even down to the mirror neurons, how we use the environment we are operating in. Birds of a feather flock together. And so the importance of community and really when you look at a society, those four pillars over the last 50 years or so have all been in decline. And so part of the longevity advising is putting a focus and an intention back towards those things to deliver a far more powerful outcome than we're sort of witnessing at the moment.

Julie Genjac [00:11:33] Jonathan, I had to laugh when you said coaches like to make things potentially more complex and lengthier. As a fellow coach, I couldn't agree more and I've always said that I think it's important to innovate through simplicity. Right. If it's 50 steps, how can we whittle that down into four or five? So the clarity around that, that's four pillar system, I think is is so powerful. I'm curious, obviously, in the conversations that John and I are having with financial professionals as well as you and your coaching work, you know, what what are some of maybe the challenges or obstacles that financial professionals face when implementing this four pillar system? You know, and and how how do they actually begin to implement it? I think that's that's one of the questions thinking about is it questions that they're starting to weave in to client conversations? Is it events that they're you know, how does this come together in terms of really changing practice and an interaction with clients?

Jonathan Ainsley [00:12:35] There are multiple levels of of how to answer that question because typically advisors are type-A. For starters, they're very successful. We know the demographics. A lot of them have been in their seat for a long time. And fear is a big, big factor. And so recognizing that fear and being mindful of it, but at the other level, you know, the need in the industry to bring in the next generation of advisors, they don't have market. Experience. So how do they gain credibility with clients? And so, again, the whole human dynamic, providing a higher level of quality advice, the ability to ask questions and listen. So ultimately, authentic listening is a big part of the equation. And typically advisors have been trained more around the technicals of finance and the like. Let's talk about Monte Carlo simulation and things like that. That's their comfort zone. And so with effective teams, you don't necessarily need everyone on the team to be the longevity advisor. But bringing that experience, the client and again, Juliette really is about keeping it simple. And when you think of those four pillars, advisors don't need to become doctors. They don't need to become life coaches for their clients are not having this conversation. No one is engaging at this level in this way. And so simply being able to start exploring by asking simple questions, that's that's the avenue to sort of moving the dial. And I do also think leadership has a big role in this. You

know, leadership is, you know, a lot. It's looking at the numbers and driving results. We've got a feeding frenzy out there in mergers and acquisitions and succession planning. And underneath all of this, the fun thing about it or one of the fun things is this will deliver on virtually every metric that that a leader is being measured by. So it's being supported at the leadership level, I think is another important sort of avenue to approach this from as well.

John Diehl [00:14:48] Jonathan, I know you work with many different financial professionals and so from your experience, can you share with us maybe what some of the biggest points of resistance are from financial professionals? And maybe an example or two of where you've seen financial professionals have an aha moment of kind of discovering both the challenge and and really the purpose of engaging in longevity planning.

Jonathan Ainsley [00:15:15] Yeah. A part of this, John, is, is actually demonstrating to the advisor the impact of this. You know, I've had advisors in and the workshops we facilitate say I've known these people a long time, but they're being shifted in front of me and the advisor themselves saying, Wow, this is giving me a whole new mission. So most advisors and I think the demographics show, let's say 50%, you know, towards looking at their own retirement, let's say. But what what have they done for their own longevity? So this everything being wrapped up in fear and breaking through, demonstrating the simplicity of this and then the power and the impact. So again, they see the expertize in the financial channel and the technical channel and helping them navigate across. So, for instance, an advisor last year, he wanted me to come back after the first workshop that we facilitated and do more for him. But part of my goal is to empower the advisors, demonstrate the power and the impact of the workshops that we do for them to do it themselves. And I gave him a little bit of push back initially, and then I thought, okay, I'll go, I'll go and do it.

When I went back, he said, Well, actually, I've already got one now on the calendar with some clients. Let me try it and see how he got on. And after his third one he said, This is so much fun. And how many advisers in today's world are saying, hey, I'm having a lot of fun here. So it's trying to get that message across. It's discovery. It's when you have a client in the workshop who says nothing and then introduces a $17 million client to you. And that client turns up and the first thing they want to talk about is their longevity. Then the financial planning. And finally it's about the portfolio and where the money is invested is completely reverse engineering, but you've got to see it to believe it in many ways. And that is the biggest challenge is crossing that Rubicon where advisors I've had a 30 year CFP say you're showing us something right in front of our noses. We have no idea that it exists. So even talking about it and even getting excited and wow, this is amazing, doesn't necessarily get people to step over and say, okay, I'm bringing my curiosity. I need, I need or I want to learn more about this.

Julie Genjac [00:17:38] I want to circle back on something you mentioned a moment ago, Jonathan, because I think it's really important is the power of a team. And I know that team is whatever, whatever any particular financial professional defines is his or her universe of individuals that they lock arms with day in and day out to deliver their client experience. And I think you would agree, it doesn't necessarily need to be a team of ten or 15 financial professionals in order to engage in these conversations. But what I think is really important that you mentioned that that bears digging into a little bit more is it may not necessarily need to be the leader or the most seasoned advisor on the team that is that is leading these conversations. Is that what I heard?

Potentially it could be a less seasoned advisor or maybe a planner on the team or someone that really this is kind of part of their primary role and responsibility is to lead this charge and ask some of these questions and engage clients a little bit differently. Is that what I heard? Maybe we could tap into that a little bit just for those lead financial professionals that are sitting there thinking, I love it, I want to do it, but I have no idea how I would possibly squeeze another 5 minutes out of my day in order to even engage in these conversations.

Jonathan Ainsley [00:18:53] Yeah, that's a terrific question, really, because I've also got the practice management hat that I wore for seven years at Merrill Lynch and really enjoyed my time in the ARIA space. So, you know, 20 years ago we're talking about how do you provide great client

service that's transcended today's world is well, what is your client experience? And so, you know, if you start with the end in mind and define well, what is it you're really delivering to your clients? And I think many practices haven't really, you know, updated. Let us say, you know, we're always getting updates for our phones and things like that. And, you know, to to have an advisor look at their practice and, you know, stress that stress test that, you know, what upgrades have you provided to what you do for your clients and how does that bear out? I think another element of this that, you know, we're seeing develop advisors can now use testimonials for their marketing and yet very few have actually got on board with that. And I think there's a fear of actually asking the clients, well, okay, how would you describe to someone else what we do for you? So by starting with the client experience and really defining what that looks like, again, the whole evolution of team, we live in a much more complex world where an advisor with support staff doesn't necessarily deliver the best client experience. And so having role specific within the team to address, make sure that, okay, we've identified what the client experiences wrong and how are you standing out in a sea of sameness? I mean, this thing is so off the charts. It's ridiculous in the difference it makes when you have advisors saying, I've never had my clients engaged like they now are. I've heard clients say to their advisor, We've always wanted to refer you, but we never knew how to differentiate you from what our friends got. Now we can. So it's such a compelling story. But unless you're focused on the practice, how are we relaying that story into the marketplace? And then you get into the role specifics of, okay, who owns this to deliver it? And consistently. So again, it's not just the, you know, a few key clients with a long tail. It's ensuring that there is a consistent process that each client gets to experience and benefit from.

John Diehl [00:21:24] So, Jonathan, I ask this question every time I talk about the topic, because often I hear the question myself, which is, okay, I'm a very busy professional, right? My business has changed a lot over the last ten years to now we're a fee based practice. There's not enough hours in the day. How do I get paid for this? You're telling me to have these great conversations with clients? Where do I have the time and what do I have to give up? How do I make this profitable for my practice?

Jonathan Ainsley [00:21:54] Oh, that's. That is so. Terrific. John, I've spent so many conversations, you know, likewise getting that question and you mentioned fee based. So we know in the industry there has been a big shift towards fee based. So we also hear of fee compression. And ultimately, you know, value is in the eye of the of the you know, it is in the eye of the beholder, the client. And so the experience you're creating for the client and the question I flipped back when I hear when I when I'm asked that question is, does the top attorney in town experience fee compression? Do they discount? No. They create a reputation for themselves. And then the fee that they're charging is reflective. There's only one of you, the advisor or one of your practice, although I guess in today's world you can have, you know, franchised practices across the country. But again, you know, is the experience on the West Coast, the experience the same experiences on the East Coast, is it consistent? But in doing that, if you've got clients who are again, come back to the testimonials, if they are expressing profound, oh, my gosh, thank you for the difference you're making in my life or our lives, you're helping us achieve things we never thought we were going to achieve again. What's the premium you're charging? And, you know, I don't necessarily have a number for someone to put on that, but you have a capacity and you know, it's not charging the right figure. Within the capacity. I would suggest again your is to focus on creating the premium.

John Diehl [00:23:30] Jonathan, thank you. Before we let you go, Julian, I want to have a little bit of fun. It is the human centric investing podcast, so we're going to involve you in what we call the Lightning Round. Julian I are going to alternatively ask you questions, quick questions. We want the first answer that comes into your mind just so that we and our audience can get to know Jonathan Ainsley just a little bit better. So you ready? What is your favorite holiday?

Jonathan Ainsley [00:23:57] My favorite holiday is Puerto Rico.

Julie Genjac [00:24:00] What's the best age?

Jonathan Ainsley [00:24:04] Today.

John Diehl [00:24:07] Beach house. Lake house.

Jonathan Ainsley [00:24:12] Both.

Julie Genjac [00:24:15] Are you left handed or right handed?

Jonathan Ainsley [00:24:18] Southpaw. John Diehl [00:24:21] IPhone or Android. Jonathan Ainsley [00:24:24] IPhone.

Julie Genjac [00:24:27] Are you messy or neat?

Jonathan Ainsley [00:24:33] Messy. I'm uncluttered. I'm uncluttered. It's as the mad rocket scientist. I've got to add more to that. And so I can't let that one go. My car is immaculate, but my my desk is somewhat somewhat neat today. So.

John Diehl [00:24:49] City or country.

Jonathan Ainsley [00:24:54] Country, but I love my London fix.

Julie Genjac [00:24:59] What's for dinner tonight?

Jonathan Ainsley [00:25:03] Steak and broccoli.

Julie Genjac [00:25:05] Well, Jonathan, we can't thank you enough for joining us today on the Human Centric Investing podcast and sharing the four pillar system. It's certainly inspired me and I know John as well. And hopefully for those financial professionals listening, it gives you something to think about in terms of taking your practice and your team to the next level. For those of you wanting more information about Jonathan's platform, which is called Invest in You, which is a platform to support individuals living to their fullest potential visit, invest in you dichotomy. Thanks again, Jonathan, for your time today.

Jonathan Ainsley [00:25:41] Thank you, Julie. Thank you, Jonathan. It's been fun.

Julie Genjac [00:25:45] Thanks for listening. So The Hartford Funds Human Centric Investing Podcast. If you'd like to tune in for more episodes, don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and follow us on LinkedIn, Twitter or YouTube.

John Diehl [00:26:00] And if you'd like to be a guest and share your best ideas for transforming client relationships, email us. Guest booking at Hartford Funds dot com. We'd love to hear from you.

Julie Genjac [00:26:10] Talk to you soon.

2349795