1 00:00:00,333 --> 00:00:03,920 we're thinking of a certain set of sort of preset topics which are good. 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:06,089 Those are all great topics, They’re all biblical. 3 00:00:06,089 --> 00:00:06,840 And yet if that's 4 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:10,677 the only kind of theology we think about, there's like these major themes 5 00:00:10,677 --> 00:00:14,180 that are actually hugely important to the theology of the Bible, 6 00:00:14,180 --> 00:00:16,307 that we then will kind of ignore. 7 00:00:16,558 --> 00:00:18,601 Right? Because they're more story themes. 8 00:00:18,601 --> 00:00:22,397 And we tend to we're looking at more like abstract theological themes. 9 00:00:22,397 --> 00:00:23,106 Right. 10 00:00:23,106 --> 00:00:25,775 But in the in the world of the Bible, those things can't be separated 11 00:00:25,775 --> 00:00:29,029 because most of the Bible's theology comes through its stories. 12 00:00:34,576 --> 00:00:35,827 Paul Lamicela, 13 00:00:35,827 --> 00:00:39,330 thank you so much for coming on the Anabaptist Perspectives podcast. 14 00:00:39,497 --> 00:00:42,500 You've been on this podcast before, but it's been a minute. So. 15 00:00:42,709 --> 00:00:45,420 And it hasn't been in person. So this is this is a nice this is nice. 16 00:00:45,420 --> 00:00:46,296 this is great. Yeah. 17 00:00:46,296 --> 00:00:48,423 Because, you're up here at, Faith builders teaching, 18 00:00:48,423 --> 00:00:51,676 a course, and happened to be in the area, so I figured we'd sit down and do this. 19 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:52,719 you want to take 20 00:00:52,719 --> 00:00:55,722 just a minute, introduce yourself briefly, and we'll just jump right in. 21 00:00:55,972 --> 00:00:56,306 Yeah. 22 00:00:56,306 --> 00:00:59,476 So, I have been teaching, 23 00:00:59,517 --> 00:01:02,729 biblical studies for, several years now. 24 00:01:02,729 --> 00:01:04,397 I have a PhD in biblical theology, 25 00:01:04,397 --> 00:01:06,441 which we'll talk about what that means in a minute. 26 00:01:06,441 --> 00:01:10,528 and, and so I've been my passion is to teach, 27 00:01:10,779 --> 00:01:14,491 and can convey the beauty of how the whole Bible fits together 28 00:01:14,616 --> 00:01:16,826 and how this really reshapes our, 29 00:01:16,826 --> 00:01:19,788 our way of reading Scripture and understanding the Christian life. 30 00:01:19,788 --> 00:01:21,873 So I live in Pennsylvania with my wife, 31 00:01:21,873 --> 00:01:25,001 Laura, and my three and a half month old baby, Giovanni. 32 00:01:25,919 --> 00:01:28,421 so yeah, that's kind of who I am. 33 00:01:28,421 --> 00:01:29,464 Yeah, yeah. Excellent. 34 00:01:29,464 --> 00:01:32,717 So, you teach a lot on. Yeah. 35 00:01:32,717 --> 00:01:35,887 Like you said, the biblical storyline and this concept of biblical theology. 36 00:01:36,304 --> 00:01:37,514 versus systematic or. 37 00:01:37,514 --> 00:01:38,264 I don't know if you want to call it 38 00:01:38,264 --> 00:01:40,391 versus systematic, but however you want to define it? 39 00:01:40,391 --> 00:01:42,477 Can we just start with some definitions? What is that 40 00:01:42,477 --> 00:01:45,563 and why do you believe biblical theology is is important for us today? 41 00:01:45,688 --> 00:01:47,315 Yeah. So and I always 42 00:01:48,441 --> 00:01:49,567 the the term is sort of 43 00:01:49,567 --> 00:01:53,738 deceptive because to in an everyday average usage, 44 00:01:53,738 --> 00:01:57,200 when we say biblical theology, we mean theology that's based on the Bible 45 00:01:57,492 --> 00:02:01,579 as opposed to like unbiblical theology, like good theology versus bad theology, 46 00:02:01,871 --> 00:02:05,583 which is why I never title my classes Introduction to Biblical Theology. 47 00:02:05,583 --> 00:02:09,546 I call it something like, understanding the Bible storyline because nobody knows. 48 00:02:09,587 --> 00:02:12,132 Like that's we don't use the term biblical theology that way. 49 00:02:12,132 --> 00:02:17,345 But in, in, in more academic circles, the, the term biblical 50 00:02:17,345 --> 00:02:21,432 theology means something, has to have kind of a technical, distinct meaning. 51 00:02:21,641 --> 00:02:25,812 And, so for today, I'll unpack that just a tiny bit. 52 00:02:26,187 --> 00:02:30,859 So when we usually think of theology, we're usually thinking of what we call 53 00:02:30,859 --> 00:02:36,489 systematic theology, which is basically, answers to the questions, 54 00:02:36,489 --> 00:02:38,992 traditionally kind of what is the doctrine of God, 55 00:02:38,992 --> 00:02:41,995 the doctrine of man, the doctrine of sin, the doctrine of the church, 56 00:02:42,245 --> 00:02:45,748 and what usually we want when we ask those questions is we're looking 57 00:02:45,748 --> 00:02:48,168 for sort of the conclusion, just a summary. 58 00:02:48,168 --> 00:02:52,213 Like if I took everything in the Bible about this and sort of synthesized it, 59 00:02:52,714 --> 00:02:56,134 maybe put it in a blender or something, what would the end 60 00:02:56,593 --> 00:02:58,595 what would the kind of end statement be? Right? 61 00:02:58,595 --> 00:03:01,598 How would I summarize this and how in a way that sort of 62 00:03:01,931 --> 00:03:04,559 somewhat connects with my own, my own cultural space? 63 00:03:04,559 --> 00:03:08,438 So it's kind of going through the I'm sure this is oversimplifying, 64 00:03:08,438 --> 00:03:09,898 but correct me if I'm wrong, going through the Bible 65 00:03:09,898 --> 00:03:13,443 and basically pulling out the passages that fit with that particular thing 66 00:03:13,443 --> 00:03:14,819 you're trying to the Trinity, 67 00:03:14,819 --> 00:03:17,822 and you find all the relevant passages and kind of build a theology on that. 68 00:03:18,031 --> 00:03:20,158 Or is that oversimplified? 69 00:03:20,158 --> 00:03:23,661 how you get there is, is a is kind of the next step of the question. 70 00:03:23,661 --> 00:03:28,833 But but yes, it involves take basically involves drawing the conclusions. 71 00:03:28,833 --> 00:03:31,085 That's, that's what matters in systematics. 72 00:03:31,085 --> 00:03:34,505 At the end of the day, what are the Bible's conclusions about the Trinity 73 00:03:34,505 --> 00:03:38,092 or about the doctrine of salvation or, or things like that? 74 00:03:38,551 --> 00:03:40,094 Okay. So that's kind of what we're looking for. 75 00:03:40,094 --> 00:03:43,306 We're looking for sort of these propositions that kind of, 76 00:03:43,890 --> 00:03:45,516 that are the conclusions. 77 00:03:45,516 --> 00:03:49,103 And then we take that and figure out at that distillation, 78 00:03:49,145 --> 00:03:51,147 figure out, you know, what do we do with that? 79 00:03:51,147 --> 00:03:53,650 So that's, that's what we would call systematic theology. 80 00:03:53,650 --> 00:03:53,942 Yeah. 81 00:03:53,942 --> 00:03:56,027 And that’s what most of us mean when we call theology. 82 00:03:56,027 --> 00:03:56,861 Yeah. 83 00:03:56,861 --> 00:04:00,198 Well, yeah, I was going to say, like, okay, we were talking about this before. 84 00:04:00,365 --> 00:04:03,493 You're doing this interview a couple, a couple nights ago. 85 00:04:03,493 --> 00:04:05,703 And, I was just thinking like, 86 00:04:05,703 --> 00:04:08,206 that's about the only thing I'm familiar with, 87 00:04:08,206 --> 00:04:10,416 you know, when it comes to theology, that, oh, of course, that's just 88 00:04:10,416 --> 00:04:10,833 how you do it. 89 00:04:10,833 --> 00:04:12,502 You know, I got the books on my shelf, 90 00:04:12,502 --> 00:04:15,505 this systematic theology by whoever, you know, and all that, all that stuff. 91 00:04:15,797 --> 00:04:19,133 so this is where I get very interested because I'm always curious about things 92 00:04:19,133 --> 00:04:19,592 like this. 93 00:04:19,592 --> 00:04:23,263 where does biblical or what we're calling biblical theology and again, 94 00:04:23,263 --> 00:04:26,391 probably to clarify with that doesn't mean all the other theologies are unbiblical. 95 00:04:26,391 --> 00:04:29,185 No no no, this is a separate, distinct technical meaning. 96 00:04:29,185 --> 00:04:33,356 So maybe give us maybe a brief definition, but also an example like what is this. 97 00:04:33,356 --> 00:04:36,359 So biblical theology in contrast 98 00:04:36,526 --> 00:04:40,280 is is saying what do what are the the themes 99 00:04:40,446 --> 00:04:43,992 that the biblical authors care about and how do they develop? 100 00:04:44,492 --> 00:04:47,495 So in systematics we care mostly about conclusions, right? 101 00:04:47,578 --> 00:04:51,666 At the end of the day, what does the Bible say and how do I how can I frame it in 102 00:04:51,791 --> 00:04:55,420 in ways that are understandable to me in my culture? 103 00:04:55,503 --> 00:04:55,837 Right. 104 00:04:55,837 --> 00:04:59,674 So often involving a little bit more philosophical language, things like that. 105 00:04:59,674 --> 00:05:02,677 It's a bit more removed from the text, but it draws the conclusions. 106 00:05:02,677 --> 00:05:04,012 Biblical theology. 107 00:05:04,012 --> 00:05:07,765 We say basically, how does this theme develop in the whole story? 108 00:05:08,016 --> 00:05:11,769 It's it's about, yes, conclusions, but more about how you get there to. 109 00:05:12,061 --> 00:05:14,897 So if I so a good example of the difference between biblical 110 00:05:14,897 --> 00:05:19,736 theology and systematics is in systematic theology, if I say, 111 00:05:20,153 --> 00:05:24,449 what is this sort of what is the Bible teach about? 112 00:05:26,117 --> 00:05:27,744 the about salvation? 113 00:05:27,744 --> 00:05:28,202 All right. 114 00:05:28,202 --> 00:05:31,205 I'm going to say, well, you know, there's stuff about justification, 115 00:05:31,247 --> 00:05:34,417 sanctification, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and I'll explain some of that. 116 00:05:34,751 --> 00:05:38,254 But if I'm asking that from a biblical theology perspective, what I'm going to do 117 00:05:38,254 --> 00:05:41,883 is tell the story of how redemptive history unfolds, 118 00:05:41,883 --> 00:05:45,219 how the how God's sort of redemptive plan of salvation unfolds through history 119 00:05:45,470 --> 00:05:49,932 and the the storyline, the story of the progressive unfolding of that theme 120 00:05:50,099 --> 00:05:53,561 is just as important as whatever conclusions at the end, 121 00:05:54,145 --> 00:05:56,272 because it's it's in it. 122 00:05:56,272 --> 00:05:58,858 We understand the theology of the text 123 00:05:58,858 --> 00:06:02,528 as we see how the story develops in redemptive history. 124 00:06:02,862 --> 00:06:05,656 So that's kind of what biblical theology means in a meta sense. 125 00:06:05,656 --> 00:06:08,701 In a, in a whole Bible, biblical theology, you can also use it in smaller 126 00:06:08,701 --> 00:06:11,704 senses, like what is the theology of Paul? 127 00:06:11,704 --> 00:06:15,124 And in that I'm saying not like, what are the conclusions I can draw, 128 00:06:15,917 --> 00:06:18,544 in a systematic sense, as much as saying, 129 00:06:18,544 --> 00:06:22,382 what are the themes that Paul cares about and how does he unpack those? 130 00:06:22,840 --> 00:06:23,132 Right. 131 00:06:23,132 --> 00:06:26,219 So it's in that way it's almost doing a little mini systematic theology. 132 00:06:26,219 --> 00:06:28,930 Just of Paul. Right. And not bringing to the table. 133 00:06:28,930 --> 00:06:31,724 Here's my list of seven doctrines that I want to find in that 134 00:06:31,724 --> 00:06:33,393 I want to see what Paul says. 135 00:06:33,393 --> 00:06:36,854 It's what, if Paul were to how I said it to my class the other day. 136 00:06:36,854 --> 00:06:38,189 If Paul were to come to faith builders? 137 00:06:39,607 --> 00:06:41,192 because I'm here at Faith Builders right now. 138 00:06:41,192 --> 00:06:44,529 what would and we said, hey, just teach on the things that you think 139 00:06:44,529 --> 00:06:46,447 are the most important. What would his list be? 140 00:06:46,447 --> 00:06:47,740 Ooh, that’s a good question. 141 00:06:47,740 --> 00:06:48,616 Yeah. Right. 142 00:06:48,616 --> 00:06:52,078 And so you end up having some themes that we don't have in 143 00:06:52,412 --> 00:06:54,414 when we sort of do systematics. 144 00:06:54,414 --> 00:06:57,792 Because he'll probably one of his themes might be the theme of suffering. 145 00:06:57,792 --> 00:06:58,835 Right. 146 00:06:58,835 --> 00:07:03,631 Or or of the, of the resurrection or things like that. 147 00:07:03,631 --> 00:07:07,635 And so that's, that's another way, that's a smaller picture way of saying 148 00:07:07,635 --> 00:07:08,553 what biblical theology. 149 00:07:08,553 --> 00:07:11,305 So it's, it's a, it's doing theology in a way that's, 150 00:07:11,305 --> 00:07:15,017 that focuses on the authors of the texts and the world 151 00:07:15,017 --> 00:07:18,187 of the text and the progressive unfolding of redemptive history. 152 00:07:19,397 --> 00:07:21,482 So that's that's some of the distinction. 153 00:07:21,482 --> 00:07:24,193 So to make sure I'm understanding this correctly, 154 00:07:24,193 --> 00:07:27,071 it sounds a lot of what you're saying is fairly story 155 00:07:27,071 --> 00:07:30,074 driven actually like this thread throughout the Bible. 156 00:07:30,658 --> 00:07:31,242 and again 157 00:07:31,242 --> 00:07:32,910 beforehand you were talking about 158 00:07:32,910 --> 00:07:35,621 some of those options of ways you can trace this thread, 159 00:07:35,621 --> 00:07:39,584 and you had mentioned this theme of exile and I, and we didn't 160 00:07:39,584 --> 00:07:40,960 really get into it before filming. 161 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:42,336 So this is all new for me, and I’d 162 00:07:42,336 --> 00:07:44,422 love to hear you use that as a bit of an example. 163 00:07:44,422 --> 00:07:46,883 How do we follow that that thread, that storyline through, through the Bible? 164 00:07:46,883 --> 00:07:50,511 And this is a good example of ways in which when we think of theology, 165 00:07:50,678 --> 00:07:54,432 we're thinking of a certain set of sort of preset topics which are good. 166 00:07:54,432 --> 00:07:56,601 Those are all great topics, They’re all biblical. 167 00:07:56,601 --> 00:07:57,351 And yet if that's 168 00:07:57,351 --> 00:08:01,189 the only kind of theology we think about, there's like these major themes 169 00:08:01,189 --> 00:08:05,568 that are actually hugely important to the theology of the Bible, i.e. 170 00:08:05,568 --> 00:08:09,655 biblical theology, that we then will kind of ignore. 171 00:08:09,906 --> 00:08:11,949 Right? Because they're more story themes. 172 00:08:11,949 --> 00:08:15,745 And we tend to we're looking at more like abstract theological themes. 173 00:08:15,745 --> 00:08:16,454 Right. 174 00:08:16,454 --> 00:08:19,123 But in the in the world of the Bible, those things can't be separated 175 00:08:19,123 --> 00:08:22,460 because most of the Bible's theology comes through its stories. 176 00:08:22,460 --> 00:08:23,002 Right? 177 00:08:23,002 --> 00:08:25,463 Especially that most of the Bible is story. 178 00:08:25,463 --> 00:08:27,256 Right, the majority of it is. So. 179 00:08:27,256 --> 00:08:28,758 exile is a great example of that. 180 00:08:29,884 --> 00:08:32,887 it's a theme that we don't think much about, 181 00:08:32,929 --> 00:08:37,391 but I think that the New Testament, the whole Bible, is a huge theme, 182 00:08:37,391 --> 00:08:38,226 the whole Bible. 183 00:08:38,226 --> 00:08:42,355 And it's something that the New Testament authors, believe is a 184 00:08:42,355 --> 00:08:46,817 very important theme for what it means to live as a Christian now in our age. 185 00:08:47,235 --> 00:08:50,863 So it's not just a very, you know, a very fascinating 186 00:08:50,863 --> 00:08:53,866 and engaging, you know, theme. 187 00:08:53,908 --> 00:08:58,037 but it's something that is meant to, to shape the way that shape the way we live. 188 00:08:58,037 --> 00:09:01,249 So, so the theme of exile 189 00:09:01,999 --> 00:09:04,835 really starts, and this all of these 190 00:09:04,835 --> 00:09:08,923 themes are so interwoven because stories are, good stories are 191 00:09:08,923 --> 00:09:11,926 very, you know, symbol laden and very interconnected. 192 00:09:12,385 --> 00:09:15,555 and the story, the great story of Scripture, 193 00:09:16,138 --> 00:09:19,600 we're dealing with something that isn't merely 194 00:09:20,101 --> 00:09:24,564 a collection of stories written by human authors, but is is one story 195 00:09:24,939 --> 00:09:29,235 driven in narrative and in history by by the divine author. 196 00:09:29,235 --> 00:09:30,945 So very interwoven. 197 00:09:30,945 --> 00:09:33,489 So but the theme of exile really begins with the Garden of Eden. 198 00:09:33,489 --> 00:09:33,739 Right? 199 00:09:33,739 --> 00:09:36,784 Because and this, this story of the garden 200 00:09:36,784 --> 00:09:40,037 sets the stage for so many of the themes. 201 00:09:40,454 --> 00:09:43,416 but Adam and Eve's judgment. 202 00:09:43,416 --> 00:09:46,043 So Adam and Eve are home right in the garden this is the. 203 00:09:46,043 --> 00:09:48,462 This is the blessed land. 204 00:09:48,462 --> 00:09:51,465 this is the place where God's presence is. 205 00:09:51,757 --> 00:09:54,468 And this is the place where they can have eternal life. 206 00:09:54,468 --> 00:09:57,471 and then in their rebellion, 207 00:09:57,888 --> 00:10:02,018 against God, the judgment really is a judgment of exile, right? 208 00:10:02,143 --> 00:10:05,396 Getting kicked out of the garden, which means getting 209 00:10:05,396 --> 00:10:08,733 kicked out of God's presence and getting sent into the realm of death. 210 00:10:09,525 --> 00:10:10,318 Right? It's those. 211 00:10:10,318 --> 00:10:13,654 It's the loss of those three things, basically, loss of God's presence, 212 00:10:14,113 --> 00:10:17,950 loss of the blessed land and the loss of, the loss of life. 213 00:10:18,367 --> 00:10:23,372 So this the Bible story just sets up with the idea of humanity 214 00:10:23,372 --> 00:10:26,417 through our rebellion against God getting getting exiled 215 00:10:26,417 --> 00:10:30,129 from our true home, the place of blessing, the place of God's presence 216 00:10:30,588 --> 00:10:35,676 and exiled into into, a land of death and evil. 217 00:10:36,427 --> 00:10:40,389 And then, sort of the rest of the Bible story 218 00:10:40,389 --> 00:10:44,810 is a is a is a story of getting back into Eden. 219 00:10:45,227 --> 00:10:47,104 Right. That's that's kind of what the whole story is. 220 00:10:47,104 --> 00:10:50,816 And so you see these like, little ways, that God is 221 00:10:51,776 --> 00:10:52,526 God is working 222 00:10:52,526 --> 00:10:56,280 to undo the, the exile of, of the, 223 00:10:56,405 --> 00:10:59,450 of Genesis three, which drives the story all the way to the end. 224 00:10:59,450 --> 00:11:01,744 But we have so Abraham. 225 00:11:01,744 --> 00:11:06,957 Right, is the next kind of place in this where God promises 226 00:11:06,957 --> 00:11:10,586 him a land and he promises him descendants and he promises him blessing. 227 00:11:10,586 --> 00:11:13,589 These are kind of the three promises of Genesis one and two. 228 00:11:13,839 --> 00:11:18,928 and yet for most of his life, he's wandering around as an exile. 229 00:11:19,428 --> 00:11:20,721 Yeah. 230 00:11:20,721 --> 00:11:22,890 waiting for that day right? 231 00:11:22,890 --> 00:11:25,976 And then his people, his descendants end up getting sent to getting, 232 00:11:26,185 --> 00:11:29,355 you know, end up in Egypt, in exile, essentially. 233 00:11:29,605 --> 00:11:33,317 So for so many years, God's people have the promise of getting back 234 00:11:33,317 --> 00:11:37,405 to, not fully Eden, but a blessed land under God's with God's presence. 235 00:11:37,780 --> 00:11:41,158 And yet they're living in bondage and oppression and slavery 236 00:11:41,450 --> 00:11:44,662 and in wandering around in a land that isn't that isn't home. 237 00:11:45,037 --> 00:11:45,287 Right? 238 00:11:45,287 --> 00:11:48,290 So it's exile, not because of their sin, but it's it's still, 239 00:11:48,541 --> 00:11:50,501 they’re waiting for God's redemption. Right. 240 00:11:51,585 --> 00:11:53,963 and then the flip. 241 00:11:53,963 --> 00:11:57,800 So the flip side of the exile motif is the Exodus, 242 00:11:58,008 --> 00:12:02,596 because the Exodus story is the restoration from exile. 243 00:12:03,431 --> 00:12:05,766 So exile and Exodus are sort of 244 00:12:05,766 --> 00:12:08,686 intricately connected to each other in the story of the Bible. 245 00:12:08,686 --> 00:12:11,439 And so what happens in the, 246 00:12:11,439 --> 00:12:14,442 in the Exodus story is that God's people are 247 00:12:15,151 --> 00:12:19,447 are brought out through through redemption, through mighty acts 248 00:12:19,447 --> 00:12:24,118 of salvation, out of exile, and toward this, this place of belonging and home. 249 00:12:24,493 --> 00:12:26,328 So those are sort of the precursors. 250 00:12:26,328 --> 00:12:29,331 But then really, when we think of exile, we're thinking of, 251 00:12:29,457 --> 00:12:32,084 Israel's exile in Babylon. 252 00:12:32,084 --> 00:12:33,169 Yeah. 253 00:12:33,169 --> 00:12:36,130 And then so this, so this, this just kind of 254 00:12:36,422 --> 00:12:40,134 you basically took us through the majority of the, the Old Testament right there. 255 00:12:40,134 --> 00:12:40,426 Not yet, but yeah. 256 00:12:40,426 --> 00:12:41,719 I mean, but you know what I mean? 257 00:12:41,719 --> 00:12:44,138 Like, you're starting in, you know, with Eden all the way through, 258 00:12:44,138 --> 00:12:46,348 you know, say the Babylonian exile. 259 00:12:46,348 --> 00:12:50,144 that is a very interesting way. 260 00:12:50,352 --> 00:12:52,396 Whereas I think, 261 00:12:53,647 --> 00:12:56,233 for myself and other people and whatever that I've talked 262 00:12:56,233 --> 00:13:00,279 to, you know, we tend to, to more slices like what does, read this book. 263 00:13:00,279 --> 00:13:01,864 And that's kind of like what it's saying, 264 00:13:01,864 --> 00:13:04,617 but not tracking that, that, that theme the whole way through. 265 00:13:04,617 --> 00:13:06,827 And I was actually talking to one of your students here recently. 266 00:13:06,827 --> 00:13:09,914 And he was just saying how powerful this concept has been for himself, 267 00:13:10,122 --> 00:13:13,667 seeing that story going all the way through the Bible and how, affirming 268 00:13:13,667 --> 00:13:17,713 that is of how intricate and beautiful and interwoven all of Scripture is, 269 00:13:17,838 --> 00:13:20,382 you know, the whole thing. And it's like, this couldn't have just happened. 270 00:13:20,382 --> 00:13:21,801 This is this is really powerful and beautiful. 271 00:13:21,801 --> 00:13:24,804 Yeah, because Scripture is not only true and good, but it's also beautiful. 272 00:13:24,929 --> 00:13:27,723 And this is part of how that how that manifests. 273 00:13:27,723 --> 00:13:29,642 And it's so important. 274 00:13:29,642 --> 00:13:30,684 One of the reasons you can't be 275 00:13:30,684 --> 00:13:33,687 just looked at in isolation like books at a time or whatever 276 00:13:33,813 --> 00:13:37,024 is that each of these stories are built on the previous ones. 277 00:13:37,233 --> 00:13:37,733 Right? 278 00:13:37,733 --> 00:13:41,070 So you're in in Abraham, you're supposed to see 279 00:13:41,987 --> 00:13:45,241 echoes of the Genesis story, right? 280 00:13:45,241 --> 00:13:46,909 You can't understand why in the world 281 00:13:46,909 --> 00:13:50,913 God is calling this one family and giving him these promises. 282 00:13:50,913 --> 00:13:54,166 If you don't understand Genesis, you know, one to three, 283 00:13:54,542 --> 00:13:58,337 because this is the first steps of the reversal of, of exile. 284 00:13:58,921 --> 00:14:01,674 And then and likewise, we'll keep seeing that as we go on. 285 00:14:01,674 --> 00:14:05,094 But, so, I mean, this takes us to sort of, 286 00:14:05,344 --> 00:14:08,222 the covenant with Moses and Israel. 287 00:14:08,222 --> 00:14:12,601 And what is central to that covenant is, okay, you've been released 288 00:14:12,601 --> 00:14:16,105 from Exodus a from some from Egypt, from slavery to Egypt. 289 00:14:16,313 --> 00:14:18,524 Now, here are the conditions of the covenant. 290 00:14:18,524 --> 00:14:23,571 And if you are faithful and loyal to Yahweh, your Redeemer and your husband. 291 00:14:23,904 --> 00:14:28,409 So this is where this all gets tied to the marriage and unfaithfulness 292 00:14:28,951 --> 00:14:32,580 theme, which is another big theme, in in the story, 293 00:14:32,580 --> 00:14:34,164 which we can't talk about today. 294 00:14:34,164 --> 00:14:40,045 But, if you're faithful, then you have you will be blessed in the land. 295 00:14:40,170 --> 00:14:43,257 You will be the one land that has God's presence in your midst. 296 00:14:43,716 --> 00:14:44,592 Right? 297 00:14:44,592 --> 00:14:46,302 the land itself will be blessed. 298 00:14:46,302 --> 00:14:47,428 Your descendants will be blessed. 299 00:14:47,428 --> 00:14:50,431 This is this is as close to Eden as you can get, right? 300 00:14:50,639 --> 00:14:53,642 God's land, God's blessing, God's presence. 301 00:14:53,726 --> 00:14:56,395 But then the flip side is that if you are unfaithful, 302 00:14:56,395 --> 00:15:00,566 if you if you walk in rebellion, essentially what's going to happen? 303 00:15:00,608 --> 00:15:03,986 The curses of the covenant as iterated 304 00:15:03,986 --> 00:15:07,656 in, say, Deuteronomy is, is basically you're going to get de Exodused. 305 00:15:09,408 --> 00:15:10,409 oh. Wow. 306 00:15:10,409 --> 00:15:13,370 Okay. I've not thought of that before. That's fascinating. 307 00:15:13,370 --> 00:15:14,079 it's very fascinating. 308 00:15:14,079 --> 00:15:20,544 So it's explicit, in Deuteronomy, it's very interesting how it's very interesting 309 00:15:20,544 --> 00:15:24,548 how the, some of the curses are spoken of, 310 00:15:25,507 --> 00:15:27,927 at the very end in Deuteronomy 28. 311 00:15:27,927 --> 00:15:30,930 So there's this whole iteration of the blessings and curses of the covenant. 312 00:15:31,138 --> 00:15:34,683 And then Yahweh says, if you do not, 313 00:15:35,476 --> 00:15:39,605 keep the covenant, if you are unfaithful, blah, blah, blah, 314 00:15:40,147 --> 00:15:42,691 then Yahweh will scatter you among all the peoples 315 00:15:42,691 --> 00:15:43,943 from one end of the earth to the other. 316 00:15:43,943 --> 00:15:46,654 And there you shall serve other gods. 317 00:15:46,654 --> 00:15:48,864 And among these nations you will find no respite, 318 00:15:48,864 --> 00:15:51,867 and there will be no resting place for the, for the sole of your foot. 319 00:15:52,534 --> 00:15:55,913 But, your life will hang in doubt before you in the morning. 320 00:15:55,913 --> 00:15:57,164 You'll say, I wish it were evening. 321 00:15:57,164 --> 00:15:58,123 In the evening you’ll say, I wish it were morning, 322 00:15:58,123 --> 00:16:00,626 you’ll just be kind of freaked out, terrified all the time. 323 00:16:00,626 --> 00:16:04,421 And then it ends with Yahweh will bring you back in ships to Egypt. 324 00:16:04,672 --> 00:16:07,049 A journey that I promise that you should never make again. 325 00:16:07,049 --> 00:16:08,509 And there you shall offer yourselves 326 00:16:08,509 --> 00:16:10,928 for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves. 327 00:16:10,928 --> 00:16:12,638 But there will be no buyer. 328 00:16:12,638 --> 00:16:14,431 And this isn't meant to be a literal. 329 00:16:14,431 --> 00:16:17,393 You will literally go back to Exodus, but it's taking the 330 00:16:17,601 --> 00:16:19,770 the sort of slavery back to Egypt. 331 00:16:19,770 --> 00:16:23,399 But it's taking the Slavery in Egypt story. 332 00:16:23,607 --> 00:16:27,319 Yeah, which was their redemption story and saying that's you’re going to be 333 00:16:27,569 --> 00:16:27,903 de Exodused. 334 00:16:27,903 --> 00:16:29,488 But even with the plot twist, 335 00:16:29,488 --> 00:16:30,364 because you’ll go back 336 00:16:30,364 --> 00:16:33,492 to slavery in Egypt, so to speak, but nobody's even going to buy 337 00:16:33,492 --> 00:16:34,326 you as slaves, right? 338 00:16:34,326 --> 00:16:36,704 You'll be so worthless that you'll be really stranded. 339 00:16:36,704 --> 00:16:39,248 I've never noticed that when I've read that passage. 340 00:16:39,248 --> 00:16:41,250 That is fascinating. very fascinating. 341 00:16:41,250 --> 00:16:44,420 So then, of course, this is what winds up playing out in Israel's history. 342 00:16:44,420 --> 00:16:45,963 They're unfaithful. 343 00:16:45,963 --> 00:16:49,133 And then their story just crashes and burns. 344 00:16:49,133 --> 00:16:50,259 Right in exile. 345 00:16:50,259 --> 00:16:55,055 They they lose the kingship and, they're they're carted off 346 00:16:55,055 --> 00:16:59,143 and they, they're exiled again into out of the sort of Eden 347 00:16:59,810 --> 00:17:01,228 the closest thing to Eden you can get. 348 00:17:02,187 --> 00:17:04,356 and sent into 349 00:17:04,356 --> 00:17:07,526 a world of God's judgment, a world of oppression by other, 350 00:17:07,776 --> 00:17:10,779 other, other nations 351 00:17:10,863 --> 00:17:13,824 and away from away from home. 352 00:17:13,824 --> 00:17:15,784 And so that that is looming 353 00:17:15,784 --> 00:17:21,582 so large in especially the time of around the first century of Jesus, 354 00:17:21,582 --> 00:17:24,585 because God had brought them 355 00:17:24,585 --> 00:17:27,588 back from exile, kind of ish. 356 00:17:27,713 --> 00:17:30,758 So there's this sense that they were sort of released from exile, 357 00:17:31,133 --> 00:17:34,136 in the, in the Persian period. 358 00:17:34,303 --> 00:17:37,681 And yet there was also the sense that exile was still continuing, 359 00:17:38,182 --> 00:17:40,893 because part of the promises of return 360 00:17:40,893 --> 00:17:43,854 from exile in the prophets and we’re skipping over so much. 361 00:17:44,146 --> 00:17:48,317 But the prophets see a day which is all based off of Deuteronomy 30. 362 00:17:49,068 --> 00:17:51,195 because Moses says, you guys will go into exile 363 00:17:51,195 --> 00:17:53,572 because you're very stubborn and I just know. 364 00:17:53,572 --> 00:17:54,907 And but then, 365 00:17:54,907 --> 00:17:58,327 but then God and the other side of exile, God will bring you back and eventually 366 00:17:58,327 --> 00:17:59,995 circumcise your hearts and bless you again. 367 00:17:59,995 --> 00:18:05,292 So the prophets say, look, God will visit his people and bring them back. 368 00:18:05,292 --> 00:18:07,961 But when he does so, that means also he's going to send the Messiah. 369 00:18:07,961 --> 00:18:12,341 He's going to, to be the true king, to restore them, restore 370 00:18:12,341 --> 00:18:15,344 the land, bring about new creation, forgiveness of sins, all that stuff. 371 00:18:15,511 --> 00:18:16,845 And that stuff hadn't happened. 372 00:18:16,845 --> 00:18:17,930 So yeah, there was a new temple. 373 00:18:17,930 --> 00:18:19,765 That was second temple that was built. 374 00:18:19,765 --> 00:18:22,434 It was like kind of kind of so-so. 375 00:18:22,434 --> 00:18:25,896 And they were still under the thumb of various rulers, 376 00:18:25,979 --> 00:18:26,939 through this whole period. 377 00:18:26,939 --> 00:18:31,110 By the first century, it was the Romans, they weren't really returned from exile. 378 00:18:31,443 --> 00:18:33,195 Yeah. 379 00:18:33,195 --> 00:18:35,989 Does does, the destruction of the temple again 380 00:18:35,989 --> 00:18:39,993 by the Romans and, and the exile again come into this story at all, 381 00:18:39,993 --> 00:18:40,953 or is that just. 382 00:18:40,953 --> 00:18:43,080 Well, it kind of it kind of does. 383 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:47,417 so what I should say is that what what is what Israel was looking for 384 00:18:48,544 --> 00:18:50,254 because of its exile, right? 385 00:18:50,254 --> 00:18:51,421 In its exile. 386 00:18:51,421 --> 00:18:54,424 What the prophets said would happen is guess what? 387 00:18:55,384 --> 00:18:58,387 The flip side, a new exodus. 388 00:18:58,679 --> 00:18:59,763 Yeah, right. 389 00:18:59,763 --> 00:19:03,767 So, okay, this is all built on the story so far, right? 390 00:19:04,977 --> 00:19:06,436 they're slavery in Egypt. 391 00:19:06,436 --> 00:19:08,605 God led them out in Exodus. 392 00:19:08,605 --> 00:19:11,984 And so the exile to Babylon or whatever the prophets 393 00:19:11,984 --> 00:19:13,318 say, there's going to be a new Exodus. 394 00:19:13,318 --> 00:19:16,905 And they use this incredible imagery from the first Exodus. 395 00:19:17,197 --> 00:19:22,369 They speak of God, they speak of God bringing back the people. 396 00:19:22,369 --> 00:19:24,955 There's 1 or 2 passages in Isaiah. 397 00:19:24,955 --> 00:19:26,415 Yeah, I've never thought of that before. 398 00:19:26,415 --> 00:19:30,377 As as what Isaiah is saying is, is essentially he's describing. 399 00:19:31,253 --> 00:19:31,545 Yeah. 400 00:19:31,545 --> 00:19:35,215 Like you're, you're, you're basically calling a new exodus or like another. 401 00:19:35,674 --> 00:19:36,508 Wow. Okay. 402 00:19:36,508 --> 00:19:39,219 Yeah. Okay. This is I see what you're saying. 403 00:19:39,219 --> 00:19:41,138 I've just I hadn't thought of it in those terms before. 404 00:19:42,097 --> 00:19:43,432 and the thing is, 405 00:19:43,432 --> 00:19:46,435 part of the reason this is important is that the New Testament authors, 406 00:19:46,935 --> 00:19:50,898 Paul Jesus isn't an author, but the New Testament characters. 407 00:19:50,898 --> 00:19:52,441 Peter we'll get to later. 408 00:19:52,441 --> 00:19:56,653 But basically, I mean, Paul says when he's with before Agrippa, I think 409 00:19:56,778 --> 00:19:58,071 he's like, look, all I all 410 00:19:58,071 --> 00:20:01,617 I do all I'm preaching is what Moses and the prophets said would happen, 411 00:20:02,117 --> 00:20:04,786 that Messiah would suffer and that rising from the dead, 412 00:20:04,786 --> 00:20:07,080 he would be the first to he would, you know, bring light 413 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:08,624 both to our people and Gentiles or whatever. 414 00:20:08,624 --> 00:20:12,169 He Paul thinks that his whole message is just saying, oh, 415 00:20:12,252 --> 00:20:15,255 the vision of the prophets has come to fulfillment. 416 00:20:15,589 --> 00:20:15,923 Right? 417 00:20:15,923 --> 00:20:19,259 And so he's absolutely steeped in these stories, and we miss a lot of Paul 418 00:20:20,302 --> 00:20:23,305 even, or the New Testament when we miss this. 419 00:20:23,513 --> 00:20:26,516 So and that comes back to this whole concept of 420 00:20:26,725 --> 00:20:30,062 biblical theology, but the storyline through Scripture to where you're saying 421 00:20:30,479 --> 00:20:33,857 it, Paul, makes so much more sense when you also are tracing the thread 422 00:20:33,857 --> 00:20:35,234 through the Old Testament prophets. 423 00:20:35,234 --> 00:20:38,028 Because that’s all he’s doing. that's all the Gospels. 424 00:20:38,028 --> 00:20:39,529 The Gospels are full of this. 425 00:20:39,529 --> 00:20:40,656 We'll get 426 00:20:40,656 --> 00:20:44,076 and you and but often the New Testament text, 427 00:20:44,076 --> 00:20:47,287 they're like good stories, not dumb ones where the bad stories, the difference 428 00:20:47,329 --> 00:20:51,792 between good and bad stories, partly, bad stories have no plot, but also, 429 00:20:51,792 --> 00:20:56,463 bad stories often they, they’re too they’re too preachy, right. 430 00:20:56,463 --> 00:20:58,757 They explain everything to you, right? 431 00:20:58,757 --> 00:21:01,260 They're like, yeah, this means that. And you're like, I don't care. 432 00:21:01,260 --> 00:21:03,345 Like, well, it's just annoying, right? 433 00:21:03,345 --> 00:21:05,514 Don't tell me that. Just tell me, just show me it. 434 00:21:05,514 --> 00:21:07,557 And don't don't be like, pedantic about it. 435 00:21:07,557 --> 00:21:09,643 Oh, that's a really good point. 436 00:21:09,643 --> 00:21:10,143 Yeah, yeah. 437 00:21:10,143 --> 00:21:14,106 And and the Bible is often is told as, usually as a good story. 438 00:21:14,356 --> 00:21:15,732 it is it's always a good story. 439 00:21:15,732 --> 00:21:21,154 But they, it assumes it's often doesn't, doesn't explicitly say hi. 440 00:21:21,363 --> 00:21:23,031 This is a reference back to this. 441 00:21:23,031 --> 00:21:24,700 It just assumes that, you know. Yeah. 442 00:21:24,700 --> 00:21:26,660 Right. That's a such a good point. 443 00:21:26,660 --> 00:21:29,830 Whereas back to like systematic theology say or you know, 444 00:21:29,830 --> 00:21:33,083 and you're going through your list of doctrines of this or reading 445 00:21:33,083 --> 00:21:36,128 only this book, I, I can see the difference. 446 00:21:36,128 --> 00:21:37,296 This is starting to make a lot of sense 447 00:21:37,296 --> 00:21:40,424 So look at here's one example from Isaiah 52. 448 00:21:40,924 --> 00:21:44,761 So how beautiful on the mountains are the feet of him who brings the good news. 449 00:21:45,137 --> 00:21:45,387 Okay. 450 00:21:45,387 --> 00:21:47,806 And this is very where we know this passage very well. 451 00:21:47,806 --> 00:21:48,390 Right. 452 00:21:48,390 --> 00:21:53,353 And this, this one passage and two or so others. 453 00:21:53,812 --> 00:21:56,523 really is the background for the 454 00:21:56,523 --> 00:21:59,526 what the word gospel means in the gospel, in the New Testament. 455 00:22:00,110 --> 00:22:01,236 This is the origin of that. 456 00:22:01,236 --> 00:22:06,033 So that phrase, good news is, is where Jesus gets when he says, 457 00:22:06,283 --> 00:22:09,786 when the authors of the gospel say, Jesus went around 458 00:22:09,786 --> 00:22:13,957 proclaiming the good news, it's a it's a link back to Isaiah. 459 00:22:13,957 --> 00:22:15,500 So this is this is here. 460 00:22:15,500 --> 00:22:16,251 So beautiful. 461 00:22:16,251 --> 00:22:18,170 In the mountains are the feet of him who bring good news, 462 00:22:18,170 --> 00:22:20,714 who proclaim peace, who bring good news of happiness, 463 00:22:20,714 --> 00:22:23,717 proclaim salvation, who says to Zion, Your God reigns. 464 00:22:23,717 --> 00:22:26,720 Now what that does not mean is, Hey, God is King of the world. 465 00:22:27,471 --> 00:22:31,767 No, we know this because the next verse, the voice of your watchman, 466 00:22:32,142 --> 00:22:33,143 they lift up their voice. 467 00:22:33,143 --> 00:22:37,230 So these are this is figuratively looking kind of portraying 468 00:22:37,522 --> 00:22:40,734 city watchman of, of Israel or Jerusalem looking out. 469 00:22:41,068 --> 00:22:44,946 And the watchmen are like they lift up their voice and they sing for joy. Why? 470 00:22:44,946 --> 00:22:47,407 Because they see the return of Yahweh to Zion. 471 00:22:47,407 --> 00:22:50,410 So when it says, Your God reigns, what it means is God is coming back, 472 00:22:50,994 --> 00:22:54,956 after exile, he's abandoned us because we've abandoned him. 473 00:22:55,207 --> 00:22:56,875 But he's he's coming back. 474 00:22:56,875 --> 00:23:00,670 And that's the good news, that God is coming back to do what? 475 00:23:01,963 --> 00:23:03,548 Well, that's what it says next. 476 00:23:03,548 --> 00:23:04,716 Break forth into singing. 477 00:23:04,716 --> 00:23:07,636 You waste places of Jerusalem because Yahweh has comforted his people. 478 00:23:07,636 --> 00:23:09,179 He has redeemed Jerusalem. 479 00:23:09,179 --> 00:23:12,182 He has bared his holy arm before the eyes of the nations, 480 00:23:12,182 --> 00:23:14,601 and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God. 481 00:23:14,601 --> 00:23:16,895 He's bared his holy arm. 482 00:23:16,895 --> 00:23:17,813 This is. 483 00:23:17,813 --> 00:23:20,399 You can maybe catch a hint of Exodus here, right? 484 00:23:20,399 --> 00:23:23,235 The God’s mighty arm of salvation. 485 00:23:23,235 --> 00:23:25,445 But it gets explicit in the next verse. 486 00:23:25,445 --> 00:23:25,946 Depart. 487 00:23:25,946 --> 00:23:28,949 Go out from there. Touch no unclean thing. 488 00:23:28,990 --> 00:23:30,200 Go out from the midst of her. 489 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,203 Purify yourselves, you who bear the vessels of Yahweh. 490 00:23:33,328 --> 00:23:35,747 For you shall not go out in haste, 491 00:23:35,747 --> 00:23:38,375 and you shall not go out in flight. 492 00:23:38,375 --> 00:23:40,544 Well, where does that language come from? 493 00:23:40,544 --> 00:23:43,380 Well it’s a direct reference to the exodus, 494 00:23:43,380 --> 00:23:47,426 where the people were told at the pass at the Passover night. 495 00:23:47,426 --> 00:23:48,844 Right. Eat this quickly. 496 00:23:48,844 --> 00:23:51,096 Have your cell phone fully charged, your keys in your pocket, 497 00:23:51,096 --> 00:23:53,765 because you're going to have to go out in haste. Right? Right. 498 00:23:53,765 --> 00:23:56,560 And but this exodus, this is going to be the new, greater exodus, 499 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,771 which will maybe take more time, but will also be more complete, right? 500 00:24:00,272 --> 00:24:04,776 For Yahweh will go before you, and the God of Israel will be your rear guard. 501 00:24:06,153 --> 00:24:07,863 Like, what is that? 502 00:24:07,863 --> 00:24:11,283 Wow. It's it's the it's the pillar of fire and the pillar of cloud 503 00:24:11,908 --> 00:24:13,201 going before and behind the people. 504 00:24:13,201 --> 00:24:18,206 So in this with this imagery, Isaiah is, is is speaking of God's 505 00:24:18,748 --> 00:24:22,085 act, of great act of salvation that he's about to do 506 00:24:22,085 --> 00:24:25,088 when he returns to his people as the new Exodus. 507 00:24:26,173 --> 00:24:28,842 there's other passages where Yahweh 508 00:24:28,842 --> 00:24:34,514 where sorry, Isaiah talks about God's return as a, bringing back 509 00:24:34,514 --> 00:24:38,268 the exiles who were scattered over a whole ton of nations this time 510 00:24:39,478 --> 00:24:43,190 he talks about drying up the channels, the rivers, the seven rivers or whatever, 511 00:24:43,190 --> 00:24:46,985 and bringing the people back in sandals right over on dry ground. 512 00:24:47,027 --> 00:24:48,570 Oh, right. 513 00:24:48,570 --> 00:24:53,158 Which is which is sort of crossing the Red sea imagery and yet expanded 514 00:24:53,158 --> 00:24:56,536 because now the the people are exiled to many nations and god’s. 515 00:24:56,536 --> 00:24:58,121 This is this imagery saying, look, I'm 516 00:24:58,121 --> 00:25:01,291 about to bring the people back from wherever they are using new Exodus 517 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:02,918 language again. 518 00:25:02,918 --> 00:25:06,046 So return from exile is spoken of as new Exodus. 519 00:25:07,589 --> 00:25:08,048 yeah. 520 00:25:08,048 --> 00:25:12,052 This a lot of this is new stuff like these are passages that I've obviously, 521 00:25:12,052 --> 00:25:14,012 you know, I've read that or I've heard that before, 522 00:25:14,012 --> 00:25:18,391 but but like actually again, basically what you just to reiterate you're, you're 523 00:25:18,391 --> 00:25:22,229 tracing that thread through, you know, through through the Bible not through. 524 00:25:22,229 --> 00:25:25,565 Just like we're going to look at just one little passage or we're not 525 00:25:25,565 --> 00:25:29,569 it seems like this, this methodology, biblical theology, 526 00:25:30,153 --> 00:25:33,990 isn't as much fixated on terms and definitions. 527 00:25:33,990 --> 00:25:36,493 And, you know, am I am I reading that right? 528 00:25:36,493 --> 00:25:39,454 It feels like systematic theology is all about what is this term? 529 00:25:39,454 --> 00:25:41,331 And then we're going to study that 530 00:25:41,331 --> 00:25:43,416 this is very story driven from what you're showing. 531 00:25:43,416 --> 00:25:43,833 Yeah. Yeah. 532 00:25:43,833 --> 00:25:48,255 It's very it's very oriented around motifs images and stories. 533 00:25:48,255 --> 00:25:49,005 Yeah. 534 00:25:49,005 --> 00:25:52,008 Because that's what the biblical authors are doing. 535 00:25:52,259 --> 00:25:52,551 Right. 536 00:25:52,551 --> 00:25:55,554 The biblical authors spend way less time on technical terms. 537 00:25:55,762 --> 00:25:56,930 Which technical terms are great? 538 00:25:56,930 --> 00:25:59,599 Look, I've got a you know, I've, I have a PhD. 539 00:25:59,599 --> 00:26:02,602 So I'm all into technical terms in their, in their place. 540 00:26:02,769 --> 00:26:05,397 But the biblical authors are way 541 00:26:05,397 --> 00:26:08,400 less into technical terms and way more into 542 00:26:08,692 --> 00:26:11,695 to in in a sense their version of technical terms. 543 00:26:11,945 --> 00:26:16,241 Are these little images from that link back to previous stories? 544 00:26:16,241 --> 00:26:19,077 That's fascinating. Yeah, Yeah, that that makes a lot of sense. 545 00:26:19,077 --> 00:26:21,454 So when you actually say it, I'm over here being like, 546 00:26:21,454 --> 00:26:22,747 oh yeah, yeah, that makes sense. 547 00:26:22,747 --> 00:26:23,748 But like, 548 00:26:23,748 --> 00:26:26,918 I have to think that like it doesn't, I don't naturally 549 00:26:27,669 --> 00:26:28,628 think of the Bible that way. 550 00:26:28,628 --> 00:26:31,673 I think it's because maybe we're just so used to seeing 551 00:26:32,382 --> 00:26:34,801 it like, here's a list of definitions and here's the verses 552 00:26:34,801 --> 00:26:36,219 where they're brought out, you know. 553 00:26:36,219 --> 00:26:38,930 yeah, A lot of it's our Western, you know, so 554 00:26:38,930 --> 00:26:42,350 most of most of the world is more story based, story driven. 555 00:26:42,350 --> 00:26:42,767 Right. 556 00:26:42,767 --> 00:26:44,227 And and the Bible was written in the, 557 00:26:44,227 --> 00:26:47,230 in those cultures, not in, not in modern Western culture. 558 00:26:47,355 --> 00:26:48,440 That's a great point! 559 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:49,733 You know, the Bible is actually built 560 00:26:49,733 --> 00:26:52,736 to connect with most of the world more than it is with us. 561 00:26:52,902 --> 00:26:54,029 Right. 562 00:26:54,029 --> 00:26:57,616 So anyway, I should get to a couple of things in the New Testament 563 00:26:57,616 --> 00:26:59,951 because so so it sets up for I love how Matthew's gospel opens. 564 00:26:59,951 --> 00:27:02,329 because so so it sets up for I love how Matthew's gospel opens. 565 00:27:02,329 --> 00:27:02,662 Right? 566 00:27:02,662 --> 00:27:07,334 Because Matthew's gospel opens by taking that whole story and saying, guess what? 567 00:27:07,375 --> 00:27:10,086 The fulfillment of this exile is about to be, 568 00:27:11,838 --> 00:27:15,133 to be ended and new Exodus is beginning. 569 00:27:15,133 --> 00:27:20,013 So Matthew starts with the genealogy of Jesus, 570 00:27:20,013 --> 00:27:23,350 which most people think is super boring, but it's actually very interesting. 571 00:27:23,892 --> 00:27:28,355 surprise, because Matthew, Matthew, deliberately 572 00:27:28,355 --> 00:27:32,942 breaks it up into three groups of 14 generations, somewhat artificial. 573 00:27:33,109 --> 00:27:37,656 he's leaving some things out and stuff like that 574 00:27:37,656 --> 00:27:40,659 to get because he wants the number 14 in all three. 575 00:27:40,784 --> 00:27:44,913 And what’s, I won't go into all that, but what's fascinating is 576 00:27:44,913 --> 00:27:47,916 these three sections are explicitly built around, 577 00:27:47,999 --> 00:27:51,503 the David, the Davidic, kingship. 578 00:27:51,503 --> 00:27:54,464 So it starts with Abraham, the one who got the promises. 579 00:27:54,673 --> 00:27:58,093 And then the first section ends with the rise of David the King, 580 00:27:58,718 --> 00:28:02,055 and then, and well, actually, I mean, 581 00:28:02,055 --> 00:28:05,183 he makes this explicit in verse 17, the generations, from Abraham to David. 582 00:28:05,642 --> 00:28:09,771 14 so that's the first section, and then David to the exile, 583 00:28:09,771 --> 00:28:11,022 the deportation to Babylon, 14. 584 00:28:11,022 --> 00:28:14,192 So the David to the loss of the Davidic kingship and the 585 00:28:15,193 --> 00:28:16,903 people going into exile. 586 00:28:16,903 --> 00:28:21,282 And then the next three is the deportation at Babylon, the exile to the Messiah. 587 00:28:21,282 --> 00:28:24,953 14 so just by structuring it that way, you're meant to say, 588 00:28:24,953 --> 00:28:28,415 here comes the new David to bring back the people from exile. 589 00:28:28,832 --> 00:28:33,837 And then Jesus birth narrative is basically a recapitulation of, well, 590 00:28:33,837 --> 00:28:37,298 the first four chapters are recapitulation of the Exile and Exodus story. 591 00:28:37,298 --> 00:28:41,511 So Jesus is born, and Herod functions 592 00:28:41,511 --> 00:28:44,514 in this in the way the story is told as Pharaoh figure. 593 00:28:44,681 --> 00:28:45,014 Right? 594 00:28:45,014 --> 00:28:48,935 Who, decrees the the the killing of the baby boys. 595 00:28:49,352 --> 00:28:51,396 Whoa. Okay, okay. Yeah. 596 00:28:51,396 --> 00:28:52,772 I don't know if I've ever thought of that. 597 00:28:52,772 --> 00:28:55,275 that's that's that makes so much sense, though. 598 00:28:55,275 --> 00:28:57,902 And then Jesus gets sent to Egypt, right? 599 00:28:57,902 --> 00:28:59,988 And then he comes back from Egypt. 600 00:28:59,988 --> 00:29:03,074 Now we're starting now he's, like, functioning as Israel, right? 601 00:29:03,408 --> 00:29:05,160 He comes back from Egypt. 602 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:10,999 and then the next thing in the story basically is he ends up in the Jordan River, 603 00:29:12,375 --> 00:29:13,251 right? 604 00:29:13,251 --> 00:29:14,711 Yeah. Wow. Right, right. 605 00:29:14,711 --> 00:29:16,129 Fulfilling the story of Israel. 606 00:29:16,129 --> 00:29:19,799 And then after that, he's in the wilderness for 40 days being tempted, 607 00:29:20,008 --> 00:29:21,801 which is 608 00:29:21,801 --> 00:29:25,096 his recapitulation of Israel's being tempted in the desert for 40 years. 609 00:29:25,555 --> 00:29:27,515 Right. But he succeeds where they fail. 610 00:29:27,515 --> 00:29:28,683 And then next thing is the sermon on the Mount, 611 00:29:28,683 --> 00:29:31,394 where he goes up to a mountain and gives his new 612 00:29:31,394 --> 00:29:33,855 sort of what a Torah written on the heart would look like. 613 00:29:33,855 --> 00:29:34,022 Right? 614 00:29:34,022 --> 00:29:37,400 So it's the story of Israel, of exile and return. 615 00:29:38,651 --> 00:29:40,612 And then Matthew's gospel ends 616 00:29:40,612 --> 00:29:43,573 with Jesus celebrating a Passover feast. 617 00:29:43,782 --> 00:29:44,824 Right. 618 00:29:44,824 --> 00:29:48,495 because what he's doing is he's speaking of the death 619 00:29:48,495 --> 00:29:53,374 he's about to die in terms of, exile and exodus. 620 00:29:53,374 --> 00:29:57,378 So he's he's situating his death in light of 621 00:29:57,921 --> 00:30:01,299 the new Exodus, because Passover is embedded in the new in the in the Exodus. 622 00:30:01,299 --> 00:30:03,092 And then he dies. 623 00:30:03,092 --> 00:30:06,805 He dies, really as, as Hebrews will say outside 624 00:30:06,805 --> 00:30:10,058 the camp, bearing our sins, he dies as somebody who's cursed 625 00:30:10,767 --> 00:30:13,770 with the curses of the covenant outside of the city. 626 00:30:13,895 --> 00:30:14,229 Right. 627 00:30:14,229 --> 00:30:19,108 the death of a cursed person, basically taking the scapegoat 628 00:30:19,609 --> 00:30:23,363 imagery of the Old Testament, cutting off from the people. 629 00:30:23,905 --> 00:30:26,825 Exiled, right away from God, banished from the people, 630 00:30:26,825 --> 00:30:29,285 banished from God's presence, banished from God's land. 631 00:30:29,285 --> 00:30:32,288 And and the New Testament sees in that 632 00:30:32,330 --> 00:30:36,084 Jesus taking the exile of his people 633 00:30:36,417 --> 00:30:41,631 so that his people can take his, his blessings and and life. 634 00:30:43,424 --> 00:30:45,009 That is something. 635 00:30:45,009 --> 00:30:46,386 And you're using this all. 636 00:30:46,386 --> 00:30:48,221 This is just an example. 637 00:30:48,221 --> 00:30:49,973 Yeah. This is one is is one example. 638 00:30:49,973 --> 00:30:51,850 We could do this all day with all sorts of others. 639 00:30:51,850 --> 00:30:53,476 All kinds of stories, themes. 640 00:30:53,476 --> 00:30:55,478 Well, in this whole. Yeah. Wow. 641 00:30:55,478 --> 00:30:58,606 The concept of the of this storyline in, in in scripture, like, 642 00:30:59,649 --> 00:31:02,652 yeah, I'm going to have to I'm gonna have to think about that because 643 00:31:02,777 --> 00:31:05,780 I can, I can I'm very much seeing how this could be very applicable 644 00:31:06,155 --> 00:31:07,323 in a lot of different ways. 645 00:31:07,323 --> 00:31:10,243 You know, it just in general, like how we read. 646 00:31:10,243 --> 00:31:11,828 Yeah, how we read stuff. 647 00:31:11,828 --> 00:31:14,789 You know, it's not I'm not you're not reading a chapter in isolation, 648 00:31:14,789 --> 00:31:17,709 you know, not not reading a book even in isolation. 649 00:31:17,709 --> 00:31:20,670 Because these things connect all across the thread. 650 00:31:20,670 --> 00:31:21,713 And I think that's the key. 651 00:31:21,713 --> 00:31:23,548 That's one of the key things is when you start 652 00:31:23,548 --> 00:31:26,551 realizing there’s connections everywhere, you start looking for them 653 00:31:26,926 --> 00:31:28,094 and then you see them. 654 00:31:28,094 --> 00:31:31,764 That's kind of the one big thing that that we, that people just. 655 00:31:34,392 --> 00:31:34,767 Yeah. 656 00:31:34,767 --> 00:31:37,312 It's not a quick you can't just be like, 657 00:31:37,312 --> 00:31:39,314 how do I know everything I need to know about this? 658 00:31:39,314 --> 00:31:39,981 It's more like, 659 00:31:39,981 --> 00:31:43,860 you need to just change your perspective on what you expect from the text. 660 00:31:44,485 --> 00:31:48,781 And once you see, once you realize, oh, this is how the Bible works, 661 00:31:49,115 --> 00:31:51,492 then you see it everywhere and you can't unsee it. 662 00:31:51,492 --> 00:31:54,287 But it would also it feels like this, this methodology 663 00:31:54,287 --> 00:31:55,830 again, biblical theology or whatever. 664 00:31:55,830 --> 00:31:59,709 You know, this framework you're presenting, would by its very nature mean 665 00:31:59,709 --> 00:32:02,712 you're reading a much more across the whole sweep of Scripture. 666 00:32:02,712 --> 00:32:06,132 You know, you there's which gets me excited 667 00:32:06,132 --> 00:32:09,135 because like the whole of Scripture is being involved because honestly, like 668 00:32:09,427 --> 00:32:13,431 so many people, I, myself included, only read in certain parts of the Bible. 669 00:32:13,431 --> 00:32:16,684 And then it's like the Torah, you know, we just don't really read, I mean, well, 670 00:32:16,726 --> 00:32:19,395 maybe a little bit in Genesis, but most of that is kind of, 671 00:32:19,395 --> 00:32:22,857 you know, but then you look at, oh, like, I don't know, Jesus, you know, quoting 672 00:32:22,857 --> 00:32:24,567 Deuteronomy a bunch and you're like, wait a second. 673 00:32:24,567 --> 00:32:26,069 There's probably stuff back there I should know, 674 00:32:26,069 --> 00:32:28,112 but it's kind of hard to know what what do I read. 675 00:32:28,112 --> 00:32:31,282 What you're describing is is bringing that into 676 00:32:31,324 --> 00:32:34,577 as part of the essential process of reading and understanding Scripture. 677 00:32:34,702 --> 00:32:36,871 And I think that's fantastic. Wow. Yeah. 678 00:32:36,871 --> 00:32:38,039 This this this is interesting. 679 00:32:38,039 --> 00:32:40,583 So let me just go to first Peter. 680 00:32:40,583 --> 00:32:45,588 because what's what Peter is doing is Peter, 681 00:32:45,630 --> 00:32:48,633 and the rest of the New Testament authors are seeing that, yes, this 682 00:32:48,633 --> 00:32:53,554 new exodus has kicked off in Jesus, and yet it hasn't done. 683 00:32:53,554 --> 00:32:54,180 It's not done yet 684 00:32:54,180 --> 00:32:57,934 because we're not back at the blessed land, which is for them, new creation, 685 00:32:57,934 --> 00:32:58,893 the new heavens, new earth. 686 00:33:00,186 --> 00:33:00,812 and so that 687 00:33:00,812 --> 00:33:04,607 means that what it means to be a Christian right now, at this time, 688 00:33:04,899 --> 00:33:07,902 the whole span of between Jesus first and second coming, 689 00:33:08,736 --> 00:33:12,573 is that we’re Christians, We’re people who, yes, have been Passovered. 690 00:33:12,865 --> 00:33:13,199 Right. 691 00:33:13,199 --> 00:33:17,286 We've we've we've experienced the beginnings of Exodus and yet we're exiles. 692 00:33:17,912 --> 00:33:21,666 And so the whole story, all the stories of Israel's exile, 693 00:33:21,874 --> 00:33:25,670 the story of Daniel, the story of Jeremiah and his letters, the all that stuff 694 00:33:26,170 --> 00:33:29,424 speaks to the moment that we're living in as Christians. 695 00:33:29,674 --> 00:33:31,134 We're exiles. 696 00:33:31,134 --> 00:33:33,386 And Peter, Peter's letter is framed around that. 697 00:33:33,386 --> 00:33:37,265 So what's fascinating is that, 1st Peter, most scholars agree that 698 00:33:38,433 --> 00:33:42,395 1st Peter is written primarily to a Gentile or Gentile Christian audience. 699 00:33:43,021 --> 00:33:43,688 Okay. 700 00:33:43,688 --> 00:33:47,316 But he kicks off the letter by saying, Peter, an apostle of Messiah Jesus, 701 00:33:47,942 --> 00:33:50,945 to those who are the chosen exiles of the dispersion. 702 00:33:51,154 --> 00:33:53,906 So and this is not a throwaway phrase. 703 00:33:53,906 --> 00:33:54,490 Oh, that's. 704 00:33:54,490 --> 00:33:58,619 Yeah, yeah, that's so funny how I've read that and just not just you. 705 00:33:58,786 --> 00:34:00,830 It's so, it's just part of the greetings in the letter. 706 00:34:00,830 --> 00:34:02,540 You just kind of read right through it, you know. 707 00:34:02,540 --> 00:34:03,750 He’s meaning to tell his people 708 00:34:03,750 --> 00:34:06,753 because Peter's all about suffering that will be followed by glory. 709 00:34:07,045 --> 00:34:08,504 And it's all about framing. 710 00:34:08,504 --> 00:34:11,507 This is what it means to live and suffer as a Christian. 711 00:34:11,674 --> 00:34:15,094 in light of you're in exile, waiting for the final redemption. 712 00:34:15,094 --> 00:34:20,850 So then he'll say, according to God's mercy has caused us to be born again 713 00:34:20,850 --> 00:34:25,980 through, the resurrection of Jesus to an inheritance that is kept in heaven, 714 00:34:25,980 --> 00:34:30,151 waiting for us to be revealed at the last time, that final salvation. 715 00:34:30,151 --> 00:34:32,487 Speaking of of the inheritance. The inheritance of what? 716 00:34:32,487 --> 00:34:34,197 The promised land, right? 717 00:34:34,197 --> 00:34:35,698 The new heavens and new earth. 718 00:34:35,698 --> 00:34:37,492 And then he says, so, 719 00:34:38,534 --> 00:34:42,622 how are you supposed to how are you supposed to act? Do not, 720 00:34:42,663 --> 00:34:45,875 as obedient children, don't be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance, 721 00:34:45,875 --> 00:34:48,252 your former gentile, you know, sinful way of life. 722 00:34:48,252 --> 00:34:52,507 But as the one who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 723 00:34:52,507 --> 00:34:54,884 since it is written, you shall be holy, for I am holy. 724 00:34:54,884 --> 00:34:58,054 And this is taking Exodus language, the language of God's 725 00:34:58,054 --> 00:35:00,723 relationship to his people, and saying, You're God's holy people. 726 00:35:00,723 --> 00:35:02,266 And so. 727 00:35:02,266 --> 00:35:05,520 if you call on him as father, who judges impartially according to each one's 728 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,940 deeds, conduct yourselves with fear throughout the time of your exile, 729 00:35:10,108 --> 00:35:13,611 because you know that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited 730 00:35:13,611 --> 00:35:14,904 from your forefathers, 731 00:35:14,904 --> 00:35:17,657 not with perishable things such as gold and silver, but with the 732 00:35:17,657 --> 00:35:19,659 the blood of the precious blood of Christ. 733 00:35:19,659 --> 00:35:22,411 So no, remember that God has exodused 734 00:35:22,411 --> 00:35:25,498 you from sin, and in light of that, 735 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,668 live the rest of your life as exiles, 736 00:35:28,668 --> 00:35:31,671 so as people who, yes, are here in the world, 737 00:35:32,171 --> 00:35:34,715 but who don't belong here and are waiting for, 738 00:35:34,715 --> 00:35:38,427 for your true, your true home. 739 00:35:38,761 --> 00:35:43,015 And so put away all malice and deceit and hypocrisy. 740 00:35:43,975 --> 00:35:46,936 As sojourners and exiles in chapter two, 741 00:35:46,936 --> 00:35:50,940 abstain from the passions of your flesh which wage war against your soul. Why? 742 00:35:50,940 --> 00:35:53,359 Because you're in your exiles, right? 743 00:35:53,359 --> 00:35:54,443 Keep your conduct 744 00:35:54,443 --> 00:35:55,736 among the Gentiles honorable, 745 00:35:55,736 --> 00:35:59,574 so that when they speak evil against you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds 746 00:35:59,574 --> 00:36:02,577 and glorify God on the day of visitation. 747 00:36:02,702 --> 00:36:03,578 Whoa! 748 00:36:03,578 --> 00:36:04,370 So, so live as people who are exiles in the surrounding world, 749 00:36:04,370 --> 00:36:07,373 So, so live as people who are exiles in the surrounding world, 750 00:36:07,415 --> 00:36:08,958 not letting the world, 751 00:36:09,959 --> 00:36:12,879 make you think that you're home and just sort of succumbing to it, 752 00:36:12,879 --> 00:36:16,716 but also caring about what everyone else, how how you witness to 753 00:36:16,757 --> 00:36:20,845 who you really are caring about that the Gentiles, which is really interesting. 754 00:36:20,845 --> 00:36:22,555 He's calling the non-Christians Gentiles, 755 00:36:22,555 --> 00:36:23,931 even though he's writing to ethnic Gentiles. 756 00:36:23,931 --> 00:36:26,517 Right. Why? Why? 757 00:36:26,517 --> 00:36:29,353 Because in the previous verse he says, you are a chosen race, 758 00:36:29,353 --> 00:36:32,023 a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, 759 00:36:32,023 --> 00:36:36,152 which is straight up Exodus 19 Oh yeah, okay, that starts making sense. 760 00:36:36,152 --> 00:36:38,279 That's a very, very good point. He’s taking Exodus 761 00:36:38,279 --> 00:36:41,073 language and, and language of God's relationship with Israel. 762 00:36:41,073 --> 00:36:42,992 And he's saying, this is your story now. 763 00:36:42,992 --> 00:36:44,368 That whole story. 764 00:36:44,368 --> 00:36:44,785 Yeah. Yes. 765 00:36:44,785 --> 00:36:47,538 You're you're you're you're ethnic Gentiles, whatever. 766 00:36:47,538 --> 00:36:50,666 But no, you are that that story is yours. 767 00:36:51,083 --> 00:36:54,086 And and so you live, 768 00:36:54,170 --> 00:36:57,673 he says once you were not a people, but now you are God's people. 769 00:36:57,673 --> 00:37:00,593 Look, you're God's people now. The Exodus story is yours. 770 00:37:00,593 --> 00:37:02,511 And so the exile story is yours, too. 771 00:37:02,511 --> 00:37:06,474 So walk around as God's kingdom of priests, as Israel was supposed to do. 772 00:37:08,142 --> 00:37:10,436 and wait 773 00:37:10,436 --> 00:37:14,732 your time in exile, not caving to the pressures of sin, but 774 00:37:14,732 --> 00:37:18,903 waiting for, the Gentiles to eventually glorify God on the day of visitation. 775 00:37:18,903 --> 00:37:20,112 What's fascinating about that word 776 00:37:20,112 --> 00:37:23,824 visitation is it's basically the same words that form 777 00:37:24,367 --> 00:37:28,788 roughly the same word, that is used in Exodus for when, 778 00:37:29,872 --> 00:37:35,211 when, Moses goes to the people and, and delivers to them. 779 00:37:35,211 --> 00:37:37,296 Hey, God is 780 00:37:37,296 --> 00:37:39,674 God is here to to redeem you. 781 00:37:39,674 --> 00:37:41,467 And they recognize... 782 00:37:41,467 --> 00:37:44,470 They rejoice because God has visited them. 783 00:37:44,845 --> 00:37:47,932 or at in Exodus also when Moses 784 00:37:48,224 --> 00:37:51,352 takes, takes the bones of Joseph 785 00:37:52,353 --> 00:37:55,898 and the in the Exodus he carts Joseph’s bones, 786 00:37:55,940 --> 00:37:58,943 the text says, Joseph made them swear. 787 00:37:59,735 --> 00:38:02,405 He Joseph said, God will visit you. 788 00:38:02,405 --> 00:38:03,906 And when he does take my bones. 789 00:38:03,906 --> 00:38:06,826 So that language of in in first Peter of wait 790 00:38:06,826 --> 00:38:10,454 for the day of visitation is saying live in exile. 791 00:38:10,454 --> 00:38:13,457 As people who suffer, people who are good 792 00:38:13,874 --> 00:38:16,877 bear God's name well to the Gentiles 793 00:38:17,128 --> 00:38:20,131 who don't make Egypt your home 794 00:38:20,172 --> 00:38:23,134 right, and wait for God's visitation. 795 00:38:23,134 --> 00:38:26,470 Double click the new exodus that you're that you're, you know, waiting for. 796 00:38:26,679 --> 00:38:29,682 And then this this is why he speaks so much about slaves 797 00:38:29,682 --> 00:38:34,061 be subject to your masters, wives be submissive to your husbands. 798 00:38:34,186 --> 00:38:37,273 Particularly, I think, somewhat not. 799 00:38:37,315 --> 00:38:38,274 Not entirely, but somewhat. 800 00:38:38,274 --> 00:38:41,193 He's talking, about non-Christian husbands. 801 00:38:41,193 --> 00:38:45,281 And in this case, he talks about, 802 00:38:45,823 --> 00:38:50,828 he talks about suffering since the Messiah suffered in the flesh. 803 00:38:50,828 --> 00:38:53,456 Arm yourself with the same way of thinking. 804 00:38:53,456 --> 00:38:55,875 he says, 805 00:38:55,875 --> 00:38:59,086 don't be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you, 806 00:38:59,253 --> 00:39:02,465 but rejoice in that you are sharing in the Messiah's suffering. 807 00:39:05,676 --> 00:39:07,386 And then he says 808 00:39:07,386 --> 00:39:10,014 that, he and all of us, 809 00:39:10,014 --> 00:39:13,434 by implication, are sharers in the sufferings of Messiah 810 00:39:13,434 --> 00:39:17,980 as well as a partaker of in the glory that is to be revealed in the future. 811 00:39:18,314 --> 00:39:23,402 So it's all framed around the idea that this motif of exile 812 00:39:24,403 --> 00:39:26,530 and then the expectation of full, 813 00:39:26,530 --> 00:39:29,533 full, the full realization of Exodus that has started, 814 00:39:30,076 --> 00:39:32,328 drives what it means to live as a Christian 815 00:39:32,328 --> 00:39:35,331 in our world, in our society, 816 00:39:35,414 --> 00:39:38,125 right as we wait for the conclusion of the exile 817 00:39:38,125 --> 00:39:41,295 theme is Genesis, revelation 21 and 22. 818 00:39:41,295 --> 00:39:41,962 When God's people 819 00:39:41,962 --> 00:39:45,091 are brought to the new heavens, new earth, and there's rest and peace, 820 00:39:45,841 --> 00:39:48,886 and it's a restoration of Eden, God's presence is fully there, right? 821 00:39:48,886 --> 00:39:51,180 So that ultimate, you know, undoing of exile. 822 00:39:52,431 --> 00:39:55,643 Wow. So I mean, that's that's fascinating. 823 00:39:57,770 --> 00:40:00,773 I keep going when I, when I get started on these themes. 824 00:40:01,607 --> 00:40:06,028 okay, so you just outlined some very fascinating things that that was great. 825 00:40:06,070 --> 00:40:09,865 that that thread, the storyline through scripture, however, 826 00:40:10,116 --> 00:40:11,659 at least in my own personal experience 827 00:40:11,659 --> 00:40:13,786 and so I don't know how much the the data is on this, 828 00:40:13,786 --> 00:40:17,331 but it seems like our, our anabaptist people and just in general, maybe other 829 00:40:17,415 --> 00:40:21,627 American church, however you want to say it tends to do the systematic 830 00:40:21,627 --> 00:40:25,589 theology thing more like what you just outlined, is not something 831 00:40:25,589 --> 00:40:28,759 I've heard people use that approach very often. 832 00:40:28,884 --> 00:40:31,554 I mean, you know, even in, even in, like, Bible college and, 833 00:40:31,554 --> 00:40:33,973 you know, Bible schools and I don't know, wherever sermons. 834 00:40:33,973 --> 00:40:36,559 why is that? That's a good question. 835 00:40:37,726 --> 00:40:39,478 I'm not totally sure. 836 00:40:39,478 --> 00:40:43,190 It's, I think it's sort of an in some ways an accident of history 837 00:40:43,691 --> 00:40:46,694 in our culture that for various 838 00:40:47,236 --> 00:40:50,865 reasons, over the last couple hundred years, maybe a few hundred years, 839 00:40:51,365 --> 00:40:55,578 especially maybe post maybe Post-enlightenment especially. 840 00:40:55,619 --> 00:41:00,583 I'm not sure, that we like abstracted. 841 00:41:01,500 --> 00:41:03,544 we're. Yeah. 842 00:41:03,544 --> 00:41:07,548 I think some of it really is is is the the way that 843 00:41:08,799 --> 00:41:11,844 back in the 1700s kind of eventually theology 844 00:41:11,844 --> 00:41:15,097 and biblical theology got kind of separated 845 00:41:16,015 --> 00:41:20,394 and and for some reason we tend to like 846 00:41:20,936 --> 00:41:23,939 and think is more applicable and relevant. 847 00:41:25,357 --> 00:41:26,692 tangible, just abstract 848 00:41:26,692 --> 00:41:29,695 sentences that I know what to do with or something. 849 00:41:29,945 --> 00:41:32,990 and we tend to think of the story 850 00:41:32,990 --> 00:41:35,993 as being some kind of, 851 00:41:36,911 --> 00:41:40,664 kind of unnecessary conveyor or like carrier of the meaning, 852 00:41:40,664 --> 00:41:44,460 which is the meaning is what I abstract out of it rather than, 853 00:41:44,460 --> 00:41:48,464 no the meaning is the story itself, and you can't abstract the meaning. 854 00:41:49,673 --> 00:41:52,676 I so I don't know, I'm it's it's changing. 855 00:41:53,052 --> 00:41:55,513 now, there's certainly the rise, you know, of 856 00:41:55,513 --> 00:41:58,516 the increase in popularity of biblical theology. 857 00:41:58,682 --> 00:42:03,479 is definitely really encouraging, but it hasn't taken root everywhere yet. 858 00:42:04,230 --> 00:42:06,941 it's kind of, maybe it's a bit of a fascination 859 00:42:06,941 --> 00:42:10,236 with trying to nail down definitions and like, that kind of thing. 860 00:42:10,236 --> 00:42:12,112 Is that have anything to do with it? 861 00:42:12,112 --> 00:42:12,738 I yeah. 862 00:42:12,738 --> 00:42:15,824 And I think it's just become so it's just become 863 00:42:17,201 --> 00:42:19,203 part of our own expectations 864 00:42:19,203 --> 00:42:22,748 now for generations that when I, when I look at the Bible and I do theology, 865 00:42:23,207 --> 00:42:26,502 I kind of expect to see I'm looking for a list of 866 00:42:27,670 --> 00:42:31,298 of definitions to abstract nouns, you know, which I'm all for. 867 00:42:31,632 --> 00:42:34,009 But but that I don't know. 868 00:42:34,009 --> 00:42:35,678 I'm not really sure. 869 00:42:35,678 --> 00:42:39,723 I would say it's because we tend to root ourselves in the epistles, but even that 870 00:42:39,723 --> 00:42:43,102 I don't think that's the right answer honestly, because I think the 871 00:42:43,394 --> 00:42:46,605 I mean, I’ve taught Galations you know, a number of times. 872 00:42:46,939 --> 00:42:49,733 And one of the things this past time that I think 873 00:42:49,733 --> 00:42:53,070 was surprising to to students was the way 874 00:42:54,029 --> 00:42:57,032 that Paul himself is such a story based. 875 00:42:57,241 --> 00:42:59,326 He's a biblical theologian, right? 876 00:42:59,326 --> 00:43:01,912 We tend to think of him as a guy with all the abstract nouns. 877 00:43:01,912 --> 00:43:05,457 But no, he's he's just doing he's just doing biblical theology. 878 00:43:05,666 --> 00:43:06,375 Oh, interesting. 879 00:43:06,375 --> 00:43:07,918 Oh, man, that feels like that could be a whole 880 00:43:07,918 --> 00:43:09,295 nother episode right there, because I would. 881 00:43:09,295 --> 00:43:14,258 I would love to see how that works because he's like, lifted up almost as as that. 882 00:43:14,258 --> 00:43:16,260 Yeah. The the definitions. 883 00:43:16,260 --> 00:43:19,638 And the, all these convoluted words and, and abstractions and and so forth. 884 00:43:20,306 --> 00:43:21,015 but that's interesting. 885 00:43:21,015 --> 00:43:23,809 I feel like you're hinting at something there that'd be worth diving into. 886 00:43:23,809 --> 00:43:28,022 You know, I'm like a huge fan of Paul and I am a huge fan of some of those 887 00:43:28,022 --> 00:43:28,397 big words. 888 00:43:28,397 --> 00:43:31,817 I think that like defining justification is important and things like that. 889 00:43:32,318 --> 00:43:36,196 But most of what Paul's doing is, is looking at the story 890 00:43:36,196 --> 00:43:39,908 of the Old Testament in light of Jesus and the outpouring of the spirit. 891 00:43:40,868 --> 00:43:44,997 And that's the that's it's theology is the intersection of those things. 892 00:43:46,248 --> 00:43:48,584 Yeah, that's that's fascinating. 893 00:43:48,584 --> 00:43:49,251 That's important. 894 00:43:49,251 --> 00:43:52,087 So with that being the case. 895 00:43:52,087 --> 00:43:54,089 And so if somebody is listening or watching this 896 00:43:54,089 --> 00:43:56,467 and they're saying, wow, this is fascinating. 897 00:43:56,467 --> 00:43:59,595 how can they apply this in their own lives, 898 00:43:59,595 --> 00:44:01,847 whether it's just personal Bible study, or maybe they're 899 00:44:01,847 --> 00:44:05,059 preparing a devotional to share at church or prepping a Sunday school lesson. 900 00:44:05,684 --> 00:44:07,603 what are some really simple, practical tips? 901 00:44:07,603 --> 00:44:10,397 Because even as you're sharing this, I'm like, this is amazing, but, 902 00:44:10,397 --> 00:44:12,066 how do I do this myself? 903 00:44:12,066 --> 00:44:14,401 You know, what are some simple tools and things we can use? 904 00:44:14,401 --> 00:44:16,779 Well, honestly, 905 00:44:16,779 --> 00:44:21,992 the solutions are not microwave ready, right? 906 00:44:22,326 --> 00:44:28,540 So part of, Okay, so one, I mean, probably the biggest thing that I, 907 00:44:28,666 --> 00:44:33,921 that I mentioned before was just by, by exposure, 908 00:44:34,296 --> 00:44:37,758 one comes to, to change one's expectations. 909 00:44:38,300 --> 00:44:39,885 One tends to come to the text 910 00:44:39,885 --> 00:44:42,888 expecting a whole ton of connections to everywhere else in the Bible. 911 00:44:43,389 --> 00:44:48,686 and one starts reading the Bible expecting any passage to say to, 912 00:44:48,977 --> 00:44:51,522 first of all, reading it in in its immediate context, 913 00:44:51,522 --> 00:44:53,691 but then reading it in light of everything that's come before it in 914 00:44:53,691 --> 00:44:56,026 redemptive history and everything that comes after it in redemptive history. 915 00:44:57,569 --> 00:45:01,949 But, honestly, one of the biggest, one of the biggest things then 916 00:45:01,949 --> 00:45:07,037 is you just you you have to become like, as familiar as you can with the Bible. 917 00:45:07,579 --> 00:45:09,915 So with that expectation, I think it's both right. 918 00:45:09,915 --> 00:45:13,669 You have to have that expectation, that these this is all interconnected. 919 00:45:13,669 --> 00:45:18,048 But then you just got to read right a lot, over and it just takes years. 920 00:45:18,465 --> 00:45:18,716 Right? 921 00:45:18,716 --> 00:45:22,428 All of us are still, are still learning and seeing because that's what 922 00:45:22,678 --> 00:45:24,096 that's what the prophets did. 923 00:45:24,096 --> 00:45:24,346 Right? 924 00:45:24,346 --> 00:45:26,265 That's why they're that's why they're literature 925 00:45:26,265 --> 00:45:29,393 is so steeped in earlier scriptures that that's what they're saturated in. 926 00:45:29,685 --> 00:45:34,523 That's what Paul that's the reason Paul is and and and Matthew and Luke 927 00:45:34,523 --> 00:45:37,693 and John is because they were so steeped in the Old Testament. 928 00:45:38,026 --> 00:45:40,320 Right. And there's really not much of a shortcut. 929 00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,031 There are good resources you can use that can help you get started. 930 00:45:43,031 --> 00:45:46,034 there's lots of great stuff out there now. 931 00:45:46,201 --> 00:45:48,620 especially in the last ten years or 15 years. 932 00:45:49,705 --> 00:45:51,957 but at the end of the day, 933 00:45:51,957 --> 00:45:55,961 it's a lot of it's, you know, keep reading, keep reading and expect 934 00:45:55,961 --> 00:45:58,881 that some of the places in the Bible where that you thought were less 935 00:45:58,881 --> 00:46:01,967 relevant are actually kind of relevant because they're going to provide, 936 00:46:03,802 --> 00:46:05,304 pieces of the story and pieces 937 00:46:05,304 --> 00:46:08,307 of the symbolism that that later scripture is going to pick up. 938 00:46:08,724 --> 00:46:12,019 So it's it's this, this idea of 939 00:46:12,019 --> 00:46:15,397 just reading the whole scope of Scripture would be a decent place to start. 940 00:46:15,397 --> 00:46:18,150 Then for like, just like immerse yourself in this, 941 00:46:18,150 --> 00:46:19,943 like you're saying they were saturated with it. Yeah. 942 00:46:19,943 --> 00:46:20,444 And so. 943 00:46:20,444 --> 00:46:24,865 Well, remember, I mean, they didn't have like Bible Gateway or logos or whatever. 944 00:46:24,865 --> 00:46:28,243 And so when Paul is reading the Bible, 945 00:46:29,161 --> 00:46:33,415 it's, he's, it's, it's whatever he has in his mind of the rest of the Bible. 946 00:46:33,415 --> 00:46:35,834 That's how he recalls connections, right? 947 00:46:35,834 --> 00:46:37,586 He's reading Isaiah and he's like, wait, wait, wait, wait. 948 00:46:37,586 --> 00:46:39,505 yeah. This passage. Right. 949 00:46:39,505 --> 00:46:43,550 And so the the more passages you have in your head, the more stuff is going to like 950 00:46:44,593 --> 00:46:46,637 kind of the connections you can make in your head when you're reading 951 00:46:46,637 --> 00:46:49,640 any one passage is like, wait, that reminds me of this, this and this. 952 00:46:49,765 --> 00:46:52,267 Right. yeah. 953 00:46:52,267 --> 00:46:56,647 I mean, there's yeah, there's so many there's so many examples. 954 00:46:56,647 --> 00:46:59,066 I mean, I teach, I teach like extensively on this kind of thing. 955 00:46:59,066 --> 00:47:01,318 So you can't, can't boil it all down. 956 00:47:01,318 --> 00:47:01,652 But yeah. 957 00:47:01,652 --> 00:47:06,114 So the three things I would say is, one just expect 958 00:47:06,114 --> 00:47:09,785 that the Bible is a unified story, that, that, 959 00:47:10,828 --> 00:47:12,704 that is all interconnected. 960 00:47:12,704 --> 00:47:16,708 Second, be as familiar with as many parts of the of the text as you can. 961 00:47:17,334 --> 00:47:18,210 And then third, 962 00:47:18,210 --> 00:47:21,463 there are great resources out there, that can help you get started. 963 00:47:22,589 --> 00:47:23,423 Yeah. 964 00:47:23,423 --> 00:47:27,469 And then biblical theology is not is also meant to inform systematics. 965 00:47:27,469 --> 00:47:30,639 So what, at the very beginning of this episode, we 966 00:47:30,806 --> 00:47:34,351 we said how systematics emphasizes conclusions. 967 00:47:34,351 --> 00:47:36,019 But still how do you get there? 968 00:47:36,019 --> 00:47:39,481 Bad systematics is basically cherry picking a bunch of like, proof texts? 969 00:47:40,357 --> 00:47:40,858 Yeah. 970 00:47:40,858 --> 00:47:45,070 Good system, good systematic theology takes biblical theology, 971 00:47:45,946 --> 00:47:49,741 starts with biblical theology and understands it pretty deeply 972 00:47:49,825 --> 00:47:53,453 and then says, okay, based on the way this theme kind of works out 973 00:47:53,787 --> 00:47:54,913 these interconnected themes. 974 00:47:54,913 --> 00:47:58,709 Now, what synthesis and conclusions can we draw, and how can we maybe use 975 00:47:58,709 --> 00:48:00,586 different language, language 976 00:48:00,586 --> 00:48:03,589 that maybe connects with our culture more philosophical or whatever, 977 00:48:03,714 --> 00:48:06,717 to kind of to kind of convey those conclusions? 978 00:48:06,967 --> 00:48:09,261 So that's kind of the difference between good and bad systematics. 979 00:48:09,261 --> 00:48:10,012 So it's still either, 980 00:48:10,012 --> 00:48:12,347 you know, either way you're kind of reliant on biblical theology. 981 00:48:12,347 --> 00:48:12,806 Yeah 982 00:48:13,223 --> 00:48:14,474 And maybe some of your listeners will say, well, 983 00:48:14,474 --> 00:48:16,518 this seems kind of impractical and, and, 984 00:48:16,518 --> 00:48:18,979 and whatever, but I, I would beg to differ. 985 00:48:18,979 --> 00:48:24,318 I think that, I think the New Testament, is so steeped in this stuff. 986 00:48:24,318 --> 00:48:27,613 And like I showed in first Peter, the story is 987 00:48:27,613 --> 00:48:30,616 it is meant to change the way we live. 988 00:48:30,741 --> 00:48:34,369 And so I think the one last thing I'll say is with biblical theology, 989 00:48:34,703 --> 00:48:36,455 when we think about application, 990 00:48:36,455 --> 00:48:38,916 we need to just expand what we mean by application. 991 00:48:38,916 --> 00:48:42,169 We like, I think, with the story based nature of the Bible. 992 00:48:42,711 --> 00:48:45,339 application is not just here's a very specific thing 993 00:48:45,339 --> 00:48:49,009 I can do next Tuesday, but it is how do I reshape? 994 00:48:49,217 --> 00:48:50,093 How does the stories 995 00:48:50,093 --> 00:48:53,555 and how does the big story of the Bible, reshape the way I view my life? 996 00:48:53,555 --> 00:48:54,181 Right. 997 00:48:54,181 --> 00:48:57,309 So yes, it's I need to suffer well, suffer injustice 998 00:48:57,309 --> 00:48:58,727 well love my enemies, whatever. 999 00:48:58,727 --> 00:49:01,647 But it's also I need, as first Peter would say, 1000 00:49:01,647 --> 00:49:04,900 you need to think of yourself through the lens of the story of exile. 1001 00:49:05,275 --> 00:49:05,567 Right? 1002 00:49:07,027 --> 00:49:07,861 that seems like 1003 00:49:07,861 --> 00:49:11,198 nebulous, but that's what that's what the text calls us to 1004 00:49:11,198 --> 00:49:14,868 do, is to change the way we see ourselves in the world through these stories. 1005 00:49:15,077 --> 00:49:16,912 And that process takes a long time. 1006 00:49:16,912 --> 00:49:19,456 But that's application. Wow. 1007 00:49:19,456 --> 00:49:22,125 That seems like a process worth doing. Yeah. 1008 00:49:22,125 --> 00:49:23,418 Wow, thank you so much for sharing. 1009 00:49:23,418 --> 00:49:24,878 I appreciate you coming on, Paul. 1010 00:49:24,878 --> 00:49:25,671 Thank you. 1011 00:49:26,546 --> 00:49:29,383 Thanks for listening to this episode with Paul Lamicela. 1012 00:49:29,383 --> 00:49:32,094 If you found this interesting, one of the topics he mentioned 1013 00:49:32,094 --> 00:49:35,681 was his teaching on the book of Galatians, and we'd actually interviewed him 1014 00:49:35,681 --> 00:49:36,682 about that topic. 1015 00:49:36,682 --> 00:49:39,977 And you can find that episode linked in the description down below. 1016 00:49:40,310 --> 00:49:43,438 Thanks again for watching and for your support of this podcast. 1017 00:49:43,438 --> 00:49:48,485 You can find all our content over on our website at anabaptistperspectives.org. 1018 01:01:46,411 --> 01:01:49,080 how do we read the Bible as a unified story 1019 01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:52,834 instead of in disjointed fragments in this episode, 1020 01:01:52,834 --> 01:01:57,338 we cover the topic of the storyline throughout the whole of Scripture, 1021 01:01:57,338 --> 01:02:00,341 and Paul will give us tools on how to do that. 1022 01:12:50,824 --> 01:12:51,241 Yeah. 1023 01:12:51,241 --> 01:12:53,035 So, how are we looking, Jeremy? 1024 01:12:53,035 --> 01:12:55,704 Basically, throw this up and then. 1025 01:12:55,704 --> 01:12:58,707 Ow ow ow ow ow. Here we go. 1026 01:12:58,916 --> 01:13:00,542 Did you get a good down there? 1027 01:13:00,542 --> 01:13:03,837 All right, so this is for the guy, and it's this nice. 1028 01:13:04,421 --> 01:13:06,465 Otherwise. Wow. 1029 01:13:06,465 --> 01:13:08,675 Excellent. Oh, 1030 01:13:08,675 --> 01:13:09,301 nice. 1031 01:13:09,301 --> 01:13:12,179 Do you come up with a good clickbait title yet? 1032 01:13:12,179 --> 01:13:12,805 Not yet. 1033 01:13:12,805 --> 01:13:15,641 Oh, I said, well, no, I think he should get AJ. 1034 01:13:15,641 --> 01:13:17,518 I'll be honest. 1035 01:13:17,518 --> 01:13:18,685 Really good. 1036 01:13:18,685 --> 01:13:19,019 That was. 1037 01:13:19,019 --> 01:13:22,022 That was impressive. 1038 01:13:22,147 --> 01:13:26,026 I mean, yeah, if we do this, that and try to write about clickbait. 1039 01:13:26,318 --> 01:13:29,071 No, no, no, that is clickbait. But, 1040 01:13:30,864 --> 01:13:32,366 I don't know. 1041 01:13:32,366 --> 01:13:35,369 I know it's. 1042 01:13:35,786 --> 01:13:37,079 Scary. Yeah, that's