we're thinking of a certain set
of sort of preset topics which are good.
2
00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:06,089
Those are all great
topics, They’re all biblical.
3
00:00:06,089 --> 00:00:06,840
And yet if that's
4
00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:10,677
the only kind of theology we think about,
there's like these major themes
5
00:00:10,677 --> 00:00:14,180
that are actually hugely important
to the theology of the Bible,
6
00:00:14,180 --> 00:00:16,307
that we then will kind of ignore.
7
00:00:16,558 --> 00:00:18,601
Right? Because they're more story themes.
8
00:00:18,601 --> 00:00:22,397
And we tend to we're looking at more
like abstract theological themes.
9
00:00:22,397 --> 00:00:23,106
Right.
10
00:00:23,106 --> 00:00:25,775
But in the in the world of the Bible,
those things can't be separated
11
00:00:25,775 --> 00:00:29,029
because most of the Bible's
theology comes through its stories.
12
00:00:34,576 --> 00:00:35,827
Paul Lamicela,
13
00:00:35,827 --> 00:00:39,330
thank you so much for coming on
the Anabaptist Perspectives podcast.
14
00:00:39,497 --> 00:00:42,500
You've been on this podcast before,
but it's been a minute. So.
15
00:00:42,709 --> 00:00:45,420
And it hasn't been in person. So this is
this is a nice this is nice.
16
00:00:45,420 --> 00:00:46,296
this is great. Yeah.
17
00:00:46,296 --> 00:00:48,423
Because, you're up here
at, Faith builders teaching,
18
00:00:48,423 --> 00:00:51,676
a course, and happened to be in the area,
so I figured we'd sit down and do this.
19
00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:52,719
you want to take
20
00:00:52,719 --> 00:00:55,722
just a minute, introduce yourself briefly,
and we'll just jump right in.
21
00:00:55,972 --> 00:00:56,306
Yeah.
22
00:00:56,306 --> 00:00:59,476
So, I have been teaching,
23
00:00:59,517 --> 00:01:02,729
biblical studies for, several years now.
24
00:01:02,729 --> 00:01:04,397
I have a PhD in biblical theology,
25
00:01:04,397 --> 00:01:06,441
which we'll talk about what
that means in a minute.
26
00:01:06,441 --> 00:01:10,528
and,
and so I've been my passion is to teach,
27
00:01:10,779 --> 00:01:14,491
and can convey the beauty
of how the whole Bible fits together
28
00:01:14,616 --> 00:01:16,826
and how this really reshapes our,
29
00:01:16,826 --> 00:01:19,788
our way of reading Scripture
and understanding the Christian life.
30
00:01:19,788 --> 00:01:21,873
So I live in Pennsylvania with my wife,
31
00:01:21,873 --> 00:01:25,001
Laura, and my three and a half month
old baby, Giovanni.
32
00:01:25,919 --> 00:01:28,421
so yeah, that's kind of who I am.
33
00:01:28,421 --> 00:01:29,464
Yeah, yeah. Excellent.
34
00:01:29,464 --> 00:01:32,717
So, you teach a lot on. Yeah.
35
00:01:32,717 --> 00:01:35,887
Like you said, the biblical storyline
and this concept of biblical theology.
36
00:01:36,304 --> 00:01:37,514
versus systematic or.
37
00:01:37,514 --> 00:01:38,264
I don't know if you want to call it
38
00:01:38,264 --> 00:01:40,391
versus systematic,
but however you want to define it?
39
00:01:40,391 --> 00:01:42,477
Can we just start with some definitions?
What is that
40
00:01:42,477 --> 00:01:45,563
and why do you believe biblical
theology is is important for us today?
41
00:01:45,688 --> 00:01:47,315
Yeah. So and I always
42
00:01:48,441 --> 00:01:49,567
the the term is sort of
43
00:01:49,567 --> 00:01:53,738
deceptive
because to in an everyday average usage,
44
00:01:53,738 --> 00:01:57,200
when we say biblical theology,
we mean theology that's based on the Bible
45
00:01:57,492 --> 00:02:01,579
as opposed to like unbiblical theology,
like good theology versus bad theology,
46
00:02:01,871 --> 00:02:05,583
which is why I never title my classes
Introduction to Biblical Theology.
47
00:02:05,583 --> 00:02:09,546
I call it something like, understanding
the Bible storyline because nobody knows.
48
00:02:09,587 --> 00:02:12,132
Like that's we don't use the term
biblical theology that way.
49
00:02:12,132 --> 00:02:17,345
But in, in, in more academic
circles, the, the term biblical
50
00:02:17,345 --> 00:02:21,432
theology means something, has to have
kind of a technical, distinct meaning.
51
00:02:21,641 --> 00:02:25,812
And, so for today, I'll unpack that
just a tiny bit.
52
00:02:26,187 --> 00:02:30,859
So when we usually think of theology,
we're usually thinking of what we call
53
00:02:30,859 --> 00:02:36,489
systematic theology, which is basically,
answers to the questions,
54
00:02:36,489 --> 00:02:38,992
traditionally kind of
what is the doctrine of God,
55
00:02:38,992 --> 00:02:41,995
the doctrine of man, the doctrine of sin,
the doctrine of the church,
56
00:02:42,245 --> 00:02:45,748
and what usually we want when we ask
those questions is we're looking
57
00:02:45,748 --> 00:02:48,168
for sort of the conclusion,
just a summary.
58
00:02:48,168 --> 00:02:52,213
Like if I took everything in the Bible
about this and sort of synthesized it,
59
00:02:52,714 --> 00:02:56,134
maybe put it in a blender or something,
what would the end
60
00:02:56,593 --> 00:02:58,595
what would the kind of end statement
be? Right?
61
00:02:58,595 --> 00:03:01,598
How would I summarize this
and how in a way that sort of
62
00:03:01,931 --> 00:03:04,559
somewhat connects with my own,
my own cultural space?
63
00:03:04,559 --> 00:03:08,438
So it's kind of going through the
I'm sure this is oversimplifying,
64
00:03:08,438 --> 00:03:09,898
but correct me
if I'm wrong, going through the Bible
65
00:03:09,898 --> 00:03:13,443
and basically pulling out the passages
that fit with that particular thing
66
00:03:13,443 --> 00:03:14,819
you're trying to the Trinity,
67
00:03:14,819 --> 00:03:17,822
and you find all the relevant passages
and kind of build a theology on that.
68
00:03:18,031 --> 00:03:20,158
Or is that oversimplified?
69
00:03:20,158 --> 00:03:23,661
how you get there is, is a
is kind of the next step of the question.
70
00:03:23,661 --> 00:03:28,833
But but yes, it involves take basically
involves drawing the conclusions.
71
00:03:28,833 --> 00:03:31,085
That's,
that's what matters in systematics.
72
00:03:31,085 --> 00:03:34,505
At the end of the day, what are the
Bible's conclusions about the Trinity
73
00:03:34,505 --> 00:03:38,092
or about the doctrine of salvation or,
or things like that?
74
00:03:38,551 --> 00:03:40,094
Okay.
So that's kind of what we're looking for.
75
00:03:40,094 --> 00:03:43,306
We're looking for sort
of these propositions that kind of,
76
00:03:43,890 --> 00:03:45,516
that are the conclusions.
77
00:03:45,516 --> 00:03:49,103
And then we take that and figure out
at that distillation,
78
00:03:49,145 --> 00:03:51,147
figure out, you know,
what do we do with that?
79
00:03:51,147 --> 00:03:53,650
So that's, that's
what we would call systematic theology.
80
00:03:53,650 --> 00:03:53,942
Yeah.
81
00:03:53,942 --> 00:03:56,027
And that’s what most of us mean
when we call theology.
82
00:03:56,027 --> 00:03:56,861
Yeah.
83
00:03:56,861 --> 00:04:00,198
Well, yeah, I was going to say, like,
okay, we were talking about this before.
84
00:04:00,365 --> 00:04:03,493
You're doing this interview
a couple, a couple nights ago.
85
00:04:03,493 --> 00:04:05,703
And, I was just thinking like,
86
00:04:05,703 --> 00:04:08,206
that's about the only thing
I'm familiar with,
87
00:04:08,206 --> 00:04:10,416
you know, when it comes to theology, that,
oh, of course, that's just
88
00:04:10,416 --> 00:04:10,833
how you do it.
89
00:04:10,833 --> 00:04:12,502
You know, I got the books on my shelf,
90
00:04:12,502 --> 00:04:15,505
this systematic theology by whoever,
you know, and all that, all that stuff.
91
00:04:15,797 --> 00:04:19,133
so this is where I get very interested
because I'm always curious about things
92
00:04:19,133 --> 00:04:19,592
like this.
93
00:04:19,592 --> 00:04:23,263
where does biblical or what
we're calling biblical theology and again,
94
00:04:23,263 --> 00:04:26,391
probably to clarify with that doesn't mean
all the other theologies are unbiblical.
95
00:04:26,391 --> 00:04:29,185
No no no, this is a separate,
distinct technical meaning.
96
00:04:29,185 --> 00:04:33,356
So maybe give us maybe a brief definition,
but also an example like what is this.
97
00:04:33,356 --> 00:04:36,359
So biblical theology in contrast
98
00:04:36,526 --> 00:04:40,280
is is saying
what do what are the the themes
99
00:04:40,446 --> 00:04:43,992
that the biblical authors care about
and how do they develop?
100
00:04:44,492 --> 00:04:47,495
So in systematics
we care mostly about conclusions, right?
101
00:04:47,578 --> 00:04:51,666
At the end of the day, what does the Bible
say and how do I how can I frame it in
102
00:04:51,791 --> 00:04:55,420
in ways that are understandable to me
in my culture?
103
00:04:55,503 --> 00:04:55,837
Right.
104
00:04:55,837 --> 00:04:59,674
So often involving a little bit more
philosophical language, things like that.
105
00:04:59,674 --> 00:05:02,677
It's a bit more removed from the text,
but it draws the conclusions.
106
00:05:02,677 --> 00:05:04,012
Biblical theology.
107
00:05:04,012 --> 00:05:07,765
We say basically, how does this theme
develop in the whole story?
108
00:05:08,016 --> 00:05:11,769
It's it's about, yes, conclusions,
but more about how you get there to.
109
00:05:12,061 --> 00:05:14,897
So if I so a good example
of the difference between biblical
110
00:05:14,897 --> 00:05:19,736
theology and systematics
is in systematic theology, if I say,
111
00:05:20,153 --> 00:05:24,449
what is this sort of
what is the Bible teach about?
112
00:05:26,117 --> 00:05:27,744
the about salvation?
113
00:05:27,744 --> 00:05:28,202
All right.
114
00:05:28,202 --> 00:05:31,205
I'm going to say, well, you know,
there's stuff about justification,
115
00:05:31,247 --> 00:05:34,417
sanctification, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, and I'll explain some of that.
116
00:05:34,751 --> 00:05:38,254
But if I'm asking that from a biblical
theology perspective, what I'm going to do
117
00:05:38,254 --> 00:05:41,883
is tell the story
of how redemptive history unfolds,
118
00:05:41,883 --> 00:05:45,219
how the how God's sort of redemptive plan
of salvation unfolds through history
119
00:05:45,470 --> 00:05:49,932
and the the storyline, the story
of the progressive unfolding of that theme
120
00:05:50,099 --> 00:05:53,561
is just as important
as whatever conclusions at the end,
121
00:05:54,145 --> 00:05:56,272
because it's it's in it.
122
00:05:56,272 --> 00:05:58,858
We understand the theology of the text
123
00:05:58,858 --> 00:06:02,528
as we see how the story develops
in redemptive history.
124
00:06:02,862 --> 00:06:05,656
So that's kind of what biblical theology
means in a meta sense.
125
00:06:05,656 --> 00:06:08,701
In a, in a whole Bible, biblical theology,
you can also use it in smaller
126
00:06:08,701 --> 00:06:11,704
senses, like what is the theology of Paul?
127
00:06:11,704 --> 00:06:15,124
And in that I'm saying not like,
what are the conclusions I can draw,
128
00:06:15,917 --> 00:06:18,544
in a systematic sense, as much as saying,
129
00:06:18,544 --> 00:06:22,382
what are the themes that Paul cares about
and how does he unpack those?
130
00:06:22,840 --> 00:06:23,132
Right.
131
00:06:23,132 --> 00:06:26,219
So it's in that way it's almost doing
a little mini systematic theology.
132
00:06:26,219 --> 00:06:28,930
Just of Paul. Right.
And not bringing to the table.
133
00:06:28,930 --> 00:06:31,724
Here's my list of seven doctrines
that I want to find in that
134
00:06:31,724 --> 00:06:33,393
I want to see what Paul says.
135
00:06:33,393 --> 00:06:36,854
It's what, if Paul were to
how I said it to my class the other day.
136
00:06:36,854 --> 00:06:38,189
If Paul were to come to faith builders?
137
00:06:39,607 --> 00:06:41,192
because I'm here at Faith Builders
right now.
138
00:06:41,192 --> 00:06:44,529
what would and we said, hey,
just teach on the things that you think
139
00:06:44,529 --> 00:06:46,447
are the most important.
What would his list be?
140
00:06:46,447 --> 00:06:47,740
Ooh, that’s a good question.
141
00:06:47,740 --> 00:06:48,616
Yeah. Right.
142
00:06:48,616 --> 00:06:52,078
And so you end up having some themes
that we don't have in
143
00:06:52,412 --> 00:06:54,414
when we sort of do systematics.
144
00:06:54,414 --> 00:06:57,792
Because he'll probably one of his
themes might be the theme of suffering.
145
00:06:57,792 --> 00:06:58,835
Right.
146
00:06:58,835 --> 00:07:03,631
Or or of the, of the resurrection
or things like that.
147
00:07:03,631 --> 00:07:07,635
And so that's, that's another way,
that's a smaller picture way of saying
148
00:07:07,635 --> 00:07:08,553
what biblical theology.
149
00:07:08,553 --> 00:07:11,305
So it's, it's a, it's doing theology
in a way that's,
150
00:07:11,305 --> 00:07:15,017
that focuses on the authors of the texts
and the world
151
00:07:15,017 --> 00:07:18,187
of the text and the progressive
unfolding of redemptive history.
152
00:07:19,397 --> 00:07:21,482
So that's that's some of the distinction.
153
00:07:21,482 --> 00:07:24,193
So to make sure
I'm understanding this correctly,
154
00:07:24,193 --> 00:07:27,071
it sounds a lot of what you're saying
is fairly story
155
00:07:27,071 --> 00:07:30,074
driven actually like this thread
throughout the Bible.
156
00:07:30,658 --> 00:07:31,242
and again
157
00:07:31,242 --> 00:07:32,910
beforehand you were talking about
158
00:07:32,910 --> 00:07:35,621
some of those options of ways
you can trace this thread,
159
00:07:35,621 --> 00:07:39,584
and you had mentioned this theme of exile
and I, and we didn't
160
00:07:39,584 --> 00:07:40,960
really get into it before filming.
161
00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:42,336
So this is all new for me, and I’d
162
00:07:42,336 --> 00:07:44,422
love to hear
you use that as a bit of an example.
163
00:07:44,422 --> 00:07:46,883
How do we follow that that thread,
that storyline through, through the Bible?
164
00:07:46,883 --> 00:07:50,511
And this is a good example of ways
in which when we think of theology,
165
00:07:50,678 --> 00:07:54,432
we're thinking of a certain set
of sort of preset topics which are good.
166
00:07:54,432 --> 00:07:56,601
Those are all great
topics, They’re all biblical.
167
00:07:56,601 --> 00:07:57,351
And yet if that's
168
00:07:57,351 --> 00:08:01,189
the only kind of theology we think about,
there's like these major themes
169
00:08:01,189 --> 00:08:05,568
that are actually hugely important
to the theology of the Bible, i.e.
170
00:08:05,568 --> 00:08:09,655
biblical theology,
that we then will kind of ignore.
171
00:08:09,906 --> 00:08:11,949
Right? Because they're more story themes.
172
00:08:11,949 --> 00:08:15,745
And we tend to we're looking at more
like abstract theological themes.
173
00:08:15,745 --> 00:08:16,454
Right.
174
00:08:16,454 --> 00:08:19,123
But in the in the world of the Bible,
those things can't be separated
175
00:08:19,123 --> 00:08:22,460
because most of the Bible's
theology comes through its stories.
176
00:08:22,460 --> 00:08:23,002
Right?
177
00:08:23,002 --> 00:08:25,463
Especially
that most of the Bible is story.
178
00:08:25,463 --> 00:08:27,256
Right, the majority of it is. So.
179
00:08:27,256 --> 00:08:28,758
exile is a great example of that.
180
00:08:29,884 --> 00:08:32,887
it's a
theme that we don't think much about,
181
00:08:32,929 --> 00:08:37,391
but I think that the New Testament,
the whole Bible, is a huge theme,
182
00:08:37,391 --> 00:08:38,226
the whole Bible.
183
00:08:38,226 --> 00:08:42,355
And it's something that the New Testament
authors, believe is a
184
00:08:42,355 --> 00:08:46,817
very important theme for what it means
to live as a Christian now in our age.
185
00:08:47,235 --> 00:08:50,863
So it's not just a very,
you know, a very fascinating
186
00:08:50,863 --> 00:08:53,866
and engaging, you know, theme.
187
00:08:53,908 --> 00:08:58,037
but it's something that is meant to, to
shape the way that shape the way we live.
188
00:08:58,037 --> 00:09:01,249
So, so the theme of exile
189
00:09:01,999 --> 00:09:04,835
really starts, and this all of these
190
00:09:04,835 --> 00:09:08,923
themes are so interwoven
because stories are, good stories are
191
00:09:08,923 --> 00:09:11,926
very, you know, symbol laden
and very interconnected.
192
00:09:12,385 --> 00:09:15,555
and the story,
the great story of Scripture,
193
00:09:16,138 --> 00:09:19,600
we're dealing with something
that isn't merely
194
00:09:20,101 --> 00:09:24,564
a collection of stories written by human
authors, but is is one story
195
00:09:24,939 --> 00:09:29,235
driven in narrative and in history
by by the divine author.
196
00:09:29,235 --> 00:09:30,945
So very interwoven.
197
00:09:30,945 --> 00:09:33,489
So but the theme of exile really begins
with the Garden of Eden.
198
00:09:33,489 --> 00:09:33,739
Right?
199
00:09:33,739 --> 00:09:36,784
Because and this, this story of the garden
200
00:09:36,784 --> 00:09:40,037
sets the stage for so many of the themes.
201
00:09:40,454 --> 00:09:43,416
but Adam and Eve's judgment.
202
00:09:43,416 --> 00:09:46,043
So Adam and Eve are home
right in the garden this is the.
203
00:09:46,043 --> 00:09:48,462
This is the blessed land.
204
00:09:48,462 --> 00:09:51,465
this is the place
where God's presence is.
205
00:09:51,757 --> 00:09:54,468
And this is the place
where they can have eternal life.
206
00:09:54,468 --> 00:09:57,471
and then in their rebellion,
207
00:09:57,888 --> 00:10:02,018
against God, the judgment really is
a judgment of exile, right?
208
00:10:02,143 --> 00:10:05,396
Getting kicked out of the garden,
which means getting
209
00:10:05,396 --> 00:10:08,733
kicked out of God's presence
and getting sent into the realm of death.
210
00:10:09,525 --> 00:10:10,318
Right? It's those.
211
00:10:10,318 --> 00:10:13,654
It's the loss of those three things,
basically, loss of God's presence,
212
00:10:14,113 --> 00:10:17,950
loss of the blessed land
and the loss of, the loss of life.
213
00:10:18,367 --> 00:10:23,372
So this the Bible story
just sets up with the idea of humanity
214
00:10:23,372 --> 00:10:26,417
through our rebellion against God
getting getting exiled
215
00:10:26,417 --> 00:10:30,129
from our true home, the place of blessing,
the place of God's presence
216
00:10:30,588 --> 00:10:35,676
and exiled into into,
a land of death and evil.
217
00:10:36,427 --> 00:10:40,389
And then, sort of the rest of the Bible
story
218
00:10:40,389 --> 00:10:44,810
is a is a
is a story of getting back into Eden.
219
00:10:45,227 --> 00:10:47,104
Right. That's that's
kind of what the whole story is.
220
00:10:47,104 --> 00:10:50,816
And so you see these like,
little ways, that God is
221
00:10:51,776 --> 00:10:52,526
God is working
222
00:10:52,526 --> 00:10:56,280
to undo the, the exile of, of the,
223
00:10:56,405 --> 00:10:59,450
of Genesis three, which drives the story
all the way to the end.
224
00:10:59,450 --> 00:11:01,744
But we have so Abraham.
225
00:11:01,744 --> 00:11:06,957
Right, is the next kind of place
in this where God promises
226
00:11:06,957 --> 00:11:10,586
him a land and he promises him descendants
and he promises him blessing.
227
00:11:10,586 --> 00:11:13,589
These are kind of the three promises
of Genesis one and two.
228
00:11:13,839 --> 00:11:18,928
and yet for most of his life, he's
wandering around as an exile.
229
00:11:19,428 --> 00:11:20,721
Yeah.
230
00:11:20,721 --> 00:11:22,890
waiting for that day right?
231
00:11:22,890 --> 00:11:25,976
And then his people, his descendants
end up getting sent to getting,
232
00:11:26,185 --> 00:11:29,355
you know, end up in Egypt,
in exile, essentially.
233
00:11:29,605 --> 00:11:33,317
So for so many years, God's
people have the promise of getting back
234
00:11:33,317 --> 00:11:37,405
to, not fully Eden, but a blessed land
under God's with God's presence.
235
00:11:37,780 --> 00:11:41,158
And yet they're living in bondage
and oppression and slavery
236
00:11:41,450 --> 00:11:44,662
and in wandering around in a land
that isn't that isn't home.
237
00:11:45,037 --> 00:11:45,287
Right?
238
00:11:45,287 --> 00:11:48,290
So it's exile, not because of their sin,
but it's it's still,
239
00:11:48,541 --> 00:11:50,501
they’re
waiting for God's redemption. Right.
240
00:11:51,585 --> 00:11:53,963
and then the flip.
241
00:11:53,963 --> 00:11:57,800
So the flip side of the exile
motif is the Exodus,
242
00:11:58,008 --> 00:12:02,596
because the Exodus story
is the restoration from exile.
243
00:12:03,431 --> 00:12:05,766
So exile and Exodus are sort of
244
00:12:05,766 --> 00:12:08,686
intricately connected
to each other in the story of the Bible.
245
00:12:08,686 --> 00:12:11,439
And so what happens in the,
246
00:12:11,439 --> 00:12:14,442
in the Exodus story is that God's
people are
247
00:12:15,151 --> 00:12:19,447
are brought out through
through redemption, through mighty acts
248
00:12:19,447 --> 00:12:24,118
of salvation, out of exile, and toward
this, this place of belonging and home.
249
00:12:24,493 --> 00:12:26,328
So those are sort of the precursors.
250
00:12:26,328 --> 00:12:29,331
But then really,
when we think of exile, we're thinking of,
251
00:12:29,457 --> 00:12:32,084
Israel's exile in Babylon.
252
00:12:32,084 --> 00:12:33,169
Yeah.
253
00:12:33,169 --> 00:12:36,130
And then so this,
so this, this just kind of
254
00:12:36,422 --> 00:12:40,134
you basically took us through the majority
of the, the Old Testament right there.
255
00:12:40,134 --> 00:12:40,426
Not yet, but yeah.
256
00:12:40,426 --> 00:12:41,719
I mean, but you know what I mean?
257
00:12:41,719 --> 00:12:44,138
Like, you're starting in, you know,
with Eden all the way through,
258
00:12:44,138 --> 00:12:46,348
you know, say the Babylonian exile.
259
00:12:46,348 --> 00:12:50,144
that is a very interesting way.
260
00:12:50,352 --> 00:12:52,396
Whereas I think,
261
00:12:53,647 --> 00:12:56,233
for myself and
other people and whatever that I've talked
262
00:12:56,233 --> 00:13:00,279
to, you know, we tend to, to more slices
like what does, read this book.
263
00:13:00,279 --> 00:13:01,864
And that's kind of like what it's saying,
264
00:13:01,864 --> 00:13:04,617
but not tracking that, that,
that theme the whole way through.
265
00:13:04,617 --> 00:13:06,827
And I was actually talking
to one of your students here recently.
266
00:13:06,827 --> 00:13:09,914
And he was just saying how powerful
this concept has been for himself,
267
00:13:10,122 --> 00:13:13,667
seeing that story going all the way
through the Bible and how, affirming
268
00:13:13,667 --> 00:13:17,713
that is of how intricate and beautiful
and interwoven all of Scripture is,
269
00:13:17,838 --> 00:13:20,382
you know, the whole thing. And it's like,
this couldn't have just happened.
270
00:13:20,382 --> 00:13:21,801
This is
this is really powerful and beautiful.
271
00:13:21,801 --> 00:13:24,804
Yeah, because Scripture is not only true
and good, but it's also beautiful.
272
00:13:24,929 --> 00:13:27,723
And this is part of how
that how that manifests.
273
00:13:27,723 --> 00:13:29,642
And it's so important.
274
00:13:29,642 --> 00:13:30,684
One of the reasons you can't be
275
00:13:30,684 --> 00:13:33,687
just looked at in isolation
like books at a time or whatever
276
00:13:33,813 --> 00:13:37,024
is that each of these stories are built
on the previous ones.
277
00:13:37,233 --> 00:13:37,733
Right?
278
00:13:37,733 --> 00:13:41,070
So you're in in Abraham,
you're supposed to see
279
00:13:41,987 --> 00:13:45,241
echoes of the Genesis story, right?
280
00:13:45,241 --> 00:13:46,909
You can't understand why in the world
281
00:13:46,909 --> 00:13:50,913
God is calling this one family
and giving him these promises.
282
00:13:50,913 --> 00:13:54,166
If you don't understand Genesis,
you know, one to three,
283
00:13:54,542 --> 00:13:58,337
because this is the first steps
of the reversal of, of exile.
284
00:13:58,921 --> 00:14:01,674
And then and likewise,
we'll keep seeing that as we go on.
285
00:14:01,674 --> 00:14:05,094
But, so,
I mean, this takes us to sort of,
286
00:14:05,344 --> 00:14:08,222
the covenant with Moses and Israel.
287
00:14:08,222 --> 00:14:12,601
And what is central to that covenant
is, okay, you've been released
288
00:14:12,601 --> 00:14:16,105
from Exodus a from some from Egypt,
from slavery to Egypt.
289
00:14:16,313 --> 00:14:18,524
Now, here
are the conditions of the covenant.
290
00:14:18,524 --> 00:14:23,571
And if you are faithful and loyal
to Yahweh, your Redeemer and your husband.
291
00:14:23,904 --> 00:14:28,409
So this is where this all gets tied
to the marriage and unfaithfulness
292
00:14:28,951 --> 00:14:32,580
theme, which is another big theme,
in in the story,
293
00:14:32,580 --> 00:14:34,164
which we can't talk about today.
294
00:14:34,164 --> 00:14:40,045
But, if you're faithful, then you have
you will be blessed in the land.
295
00:14:40,170 --> 00:14:43,257
You will be the one land
that has God's presence in your midst.
296
00:14:43,716 --> 00:14:44,592
Right?
297
00:14:44,592 --> 00:14:46,302
the land itself will be blessed.
298
00:14:46,302 --> 00:14:47,428
Your descendants will be blessed.
299
00:14:47,428 --> 00:14:50,431
This is this is as close to Eden
as you can get, right?
300
00:14:50,639 --> 00:14:53,642
God's land, God's blessing,
God's presence.
301
00:14:53,726 --> 00:14:56,395
But then the flip side
is that if you are unfaithful,
302
00:14:56,395 --> 00:15:00,566
if you if you walk in rebellion,
essentially what's going to happen?
303
00:15:00,608 --> 00:15:03,986
The curses of the covenant as iterated
304
00:15:03,986 --> 00:15:07,656
in, say, Deuteronomy is, is basically
you're going to get de Exodused.
305
00:15:09,408 --> 00:15:10,409
oh. Wow.
306
00:15:10,409 --> 00:15:13,370
Okay. I've not thought of that before.
That's fascinating.
307
00:15:13,370 --> 00:15:14,079
it's very fascinating.
308
00:15:14,079 --> 00:15:20,544
So it's explicit, in Deuteronomy, it's
very interesting how it's very interesting
309
00:15:20,544 --> 00:15:24,548
how the,
some of the curses are spoken of,
310
00:15:25,507 --> 00:15:27,927
at the very end in Deuteronomy 28.
311
00:15:27,927 --> 00:15:30,930
So there's this whole iteration of the
blessings and curses of the covenant.
312
00:15:31,138 --> 00:15:34,683
And then Yahweh says, if you do not,
313
00:15:35,476 --> 00:15:39,605
keep the covenant,
if you are unfaithful, blah, blah, blah,
314
00:15:40,147 --> 00:15:42,691
then Yahweh will scatter
you among all the peoples
315
00:15:42,691 --> 00:15:43,943
from one end of the earth to the other.
316
00:15:43,943 --> 00:15:46,654
And there you shall serve other gods.
317
00:15:46,654 --> 00:15:48,864
And among these nations
you will find no respite,
318
00:15:48,864 --> 00:15:51,867
and there will be no resting place
for the, for the sole of your foot.
319
00:15:52,534 --> 00:15:55,913
But, your life will hang in doubt
before you in the morning.
320
00:15:55,913 --> 00:15:57,164
You'll say, I wish it were evening.
321
00:15:57,164 --> 00:15:58,123
In the evening you’ll say,
I wish it were morning,
322
00:15:58,123 --> 00:16:00,626
you’ll just be kind of freaked out,
terrified all the time.
323
00:16:00,626 --> 00:16:04,421
And then it ends with Yahweh
will bring you back in ships to Egypt.
324
00:16:04,672 --> 00:16:07,049
A journey that I promise
that you should never make again.
325
00:16:07,049 --> 00:16:08,509
And there you shall offer yourselves
326
00:16:08,509 --> 00:16:10,928
for sale to your enemies
as male and female slaves.
327
00:16:10,928 --> 00:16:12,638
But there will be no buyer.
328
00:16:12,638 --> 00:16:14,431
And this isn't meant to be a literal.
329
00:16:14,431 --> 00:16:17,393
You will literally go back to Exodus,
but it's taking the
330
00:16:17,601 --> 00:16:19,770
the sort of slavery back to Egypt.
331
00:16:19,770 --> 00:16:23,399
But it's taking the Slavery
in Egypt story.
332
00:16:23,607 --> 00:16:27,319
Yeah, which was their redemption story
and saying that's you’re going to be
333
00:16:27,569 --> 00:16:27,903
de Exodused.
334
00:16:27,903 --> 00:16:29,488
But even with the plot twist,
335
00:16:29,488 --> 00:16:30,364
because you’ll go back
336
00:16:30,364 --> 00:16:33,492
to slavery in Egypt, so to speak,
but nobody's even going to buy
337
00:16:33,492 --> 00:16:34,326
you as slaves, right?
338
00:16:34,326 --> 00:16:36,704
You'll be so worthless
that you'll be really stranded.
339
00:16:36,704 --> 00:16:39,248
I've never noticed
that when I've read that passage.
340
00:16:39,248 --> 00:16:41,250
That is fascinating. very fascinating.
341
00:16:41,250 --> 00:16:44,420
So then, of course, this is what winds up
playing out in Israel's history.
342
00:16:44,420 --> 00:16:45,963
They're unfaithful.
343
00:16:45,963 --> 00:16:49,133
And then their story just crashes
and burns.
344
00:16:49,133 --> 00:16:50,259
Right in exile.
345
00:16:50,259 --> 00:16:55,055
They they lose the kingship and,
they're they're carted off
346
00:16:55,055 --> 00:16:59,143
and they, they're exiled again
into out of the sort of Eden
347
00:16:59,810 --> 00:17:01,228
the closest thing to Eden you can get.
348
00:17:02,187 --> 00:17:04,356
and sent into
349
00:17:04,356 --> 00:17:07,526
a world of God's judgment,
a world of oppression by other,
350
00:17:07,776 --> 00:17:10,779
other, other nations
351
00:17:10,863 --> 00:17:13,824
and away from away from home.
352
00:17:13,824 --> 00:17:15,784
And so that that is looming
353
00:17:15,784 --> 00:17:21,582
so large in especially the time of
around the first century of Jesus,
354
00:17:21,582 --> 00:17:24,585
because God had brought them
355
00:17:24,585 --> 00:17:27,588
back from exile, kind of ish.
356
00:17:27,713 --> 00:17:30,758
So there's this sense that they were sort
of released from exile,
357
00:17:31,133 --> 00:17:34,136
in the, in the Persian period.
358
00:17:34,303 --> 00:17:37,681
And yet there was also the sense
that exile was still continuing,
359
00:17:38,182 --> 00:17:40,893
because part of the promises of return
360
00:17:40,893 --> 00:17:43,854
from exile in the prophets and we’re
skipping over so much.
361
00:17:44,146 --> 00:17:48,317
But the prophets see a day
which is all based off of Deuteronomy 30.
362
00:17:49,068 --> 00:17:51,195
because Moses says,
you guys will go into exile
363
00:17:51,195 --> 00:17:53,572
because you're very stubborn
and I just know.
364
00:17:53,572 --> 00:17:54,907
And but then,
365
00:17:54,907 --> 00:17:58,327
but then God and the other side of exile,
God will bring you back and eventually
366
00:17:58,327 --> 00:17:59,995
circumcise
your hearts and bless you again.
367
00:17:59,995 --> 00:18:05,292
So the prophets say, look, God
will visit his people and bring them back.
368
00:18:05,292 --> 00:18:07,961
But when he does so, that means also he's
going to send the Messiah.
369
00:18:07,961 --> 00:18:12,341
He's going to, to be the true king,
to restore them, restore
370
00:18:12,341 --> 00:18:15,344
the land, bring about new creation,
forgiveness of sins, all that stuff.
371
00:18:15,511 --> 00:18:16,845
And that stuff hadn't happened.
372
00:18:16,845 --> 00:18:17,930
So yeah, there was a new temple.
373
00:18:17,930 --> 00:18:19,765
That was second temple that was built.
374
00:18:19,765 --> 00:18:22,434
It was like kind of kind of so-so.
375
00:18:22,434 --> 00:18:25,896
And they were still under the thumb
of various rulers,
376
00:18:25,979 --> 00:18:26,939
through this whole period.
377
00:18:26,939 --> 00:18:31,110
By the first century, it was the Romans,
they weren't really returned from exile.
378
00:18:31,443 --> 00:18:33,195
Yeah.
379
00:18:33,195 --> 00:18:35,989
Does does,
the destruction of the temple again
380
00:18:35,989 --> 00:18:39,993
by the Romans and, and the exile again
come into this story at all,
381
00:18:39,993 --> 00:18:40,953
or is that just.
382
00:18:40,953 --> 00:18:43,080
Well, it kind of it kind of does.
383
00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:47,417
so what I should say is that what
what is what Israel was looking for
384
00:18:48,544 --> 00:18:50,254
because of its exile, right?
385
00:18:50,254 --> 00:18:51,421
In its exile.
386
00:18:51,421 --> 00:18:54,424
What the prophets said would happen
is guess what?
387
00:18:55,384 --> 00:18:58,387
The flip side, a new exodus.
388
00:18:58,679 --> 00:18:59,763
Yeah, right.
389
00:18:59,763 --> 00:19:03,767
So, okay, this is all built on the story
so far, right?
390
00:19:04,977 --> 00:19:06,436
they're slavery in Egypt.
391
00:19:06,436 --> 00:19:08,605
God led them out in Exodus.
392
00:19:08,605 --> 00:19:11,984
And so the exile to Babylon or whatever
the prophets
393
00:19:11,984 --> 00:19:13,318
say, there's going to be a new Exodus.
394
00:19:13,318 --> 00:19:16,905
And they use this incredible imagery
from the first Exodus.
395
00:19:17,197 --> 00:19:22,369
They speak of God, they speak of God
bringing back the people.
396
00:19:22,369 --> 00:19:24,955
There's 1 or 2 passages in Isaiah.
397
00:19:24,955 --> 00:19:26,415
Yeah, I've never thought of that before.
398
00:19:26,415 --> 00:19:30,377
As as what Isaiah is saying
is, is essentially he's describing.
399
00:19:31,253 --> 00:19:31,545
Yeah.
400
00:19:31,545 --> 00:19:35,215
Like you're, you're, you're basically
calling a new exodus or like another.
401
00:19:35,674 --> 00:19:36,508
Wow. Okay.
402
00:19:36,508 --> 00:19:39,219
Yeah. Okay. This is
I see what you're saying.
403
00:19:39,219 --> 00:19:41,138
I've just I hadn't thought
of it in those terms before.
404
00:19:42,097 --> 00:19:43,432
and the thing is,
405
00:19:43,432 --> 00:19:46,435
part of the reason this is important
is that the New Testament authors,
406
00:19:46,935 --> 00:19:50,898
Paul Jesus isn't an author,
but the New Testament characters.
407
00:19:50,898 --> 00:19:52,441
Peter we'll get to later.
408
00:19:52,441 --> 00:19:56,653
But basically, I mean, Paul says
when he's with before Agrippa, I think
409
00:19:56,778 --> 00:19:58,071
he's like, look, all I all
410
00:19:58,071 --> 00:20:01,617
I do all I'm preaching is what Moses
and the prophets said would happen,
411
00:20:02,117 --> 00:20:04,786
that Messiah would suffer
and that rising from the dead,
412
00:20:04,786 --> 00:20:07,080
he would be the first to
he would, you know, bring light
413
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:08,624
both to our people and Gentiles
or whatever.
414
00:20:08,624 --> 00:20:12,169
He Paul thinks that his whole message is
just saying, oh,
415
00:20:12,252 --> 00:20:15,255
the vision of the prophets
has come to fulfillment.
416
00:20:15,589 --> 00:20:15,923
Right?
417
00:20:15,923 --> 00:20:19,259
And so he's absolutely steeped in
these stories, and we miss a lot of Paul
418
00:20:20,302 --> 00:20:23,305
even,
or the New Testament when we miss this.
419
00:20:23,513 --> 00:20:26,516
So and that comes back
to this whole concept of
420
00:20:26,725 --> 00:20:30,062
biblical theology, but the storyline
through Scripture to where you're saying
421
00:20:30,479 --> 00:20:33,857
it, Paul, makes so much more sense
when you also are tracing the thread
422
00:20:33,857 --> 00:20:35,234
through the Old Testament prophets.
423
00:20:35,234 --> 00:20:38,028
Because that’s all he’s doing.
that's all the Gospels.
424
00:20:38,028 --> 00:20:39,529
The Gospels are full of this.
425
00:20:39,529 --> 00:20:40,656
We'll get
426
00:20:40,656 --> 00:20:44,076
and you
and but often the New Testament text,
427
00:20:44,076 --> 00:20:47,287
they're like good stories, not dumb ones
where the bad stories, the difference
428
00:20:47,329 --> 00:20:51,792
between good and bad stories, partly,
bad stories have no plot, but also,
429
00:20:51,792 --> 00:20:56,463
bad stories often they, they’re too
they’re too preachy, right.
430
00:20:56,463 --> 00:20:58,757
They explain everything to you, right?
431
00:20:58,757 --> 00:21:01,260
They're like, yeah, this means that.
And you're like, I don't care.
432
00:21:01,260 --> 00:21:03,345
Like, well, it's just annoying, right?
433
00:21:03,345 --> 00:21:05,514
Don't tell me that. Just tell me,
just show me it.
434
00:21:05,514 --> 00:21:07,557
And don't don't be like,
pedantic about it.
435
00:21:07,557 --> 00:21:09,643
Oh, that's a really good point.
436
00:21:09,643 --> 00:21:10,143
Yeah, yeah.
437
00:21:10,143 --> 00:21:14,106
And and the Bible is often is told
as, usually as a good story.
438
00:21:14,356 --> 00:21:15,732
it is it's always a good story.
439
00:21:15,732 --> 00:21:21,154
But they, it assumes it's often doesn't,
doesn't explicitly say hi.
440
00:21:21,363 --> 00:21:23,031
This is a reference back to this.
441
00:21:23,031 --> 00:21:24,700
It just assumes that, you know. Yeah.
442
00:21:24,700 --> 00:21:26,660
Right. That's a such a good point.
443
00:21:26,660 --> 00:21:29,830
Whereas back to like systematic theology
say or you know,
444
00:21:29,830 --> 00:21:33,083
and you're going through your list
of doctrines of this or reading
445
00:21:33,083 --> 00:21:36,128
only this book, I,
I can see the difference.
446
00:21:36,128 --> 00:21:37,296
This is starting to make a lot of sense
447
00:21:37,296 --> 00:21:40,424
So look at
here's one example from Isaiah 52.
448
00:21:40,924 --> 00:21:44,761
So how beautiful on the mountains are
the feet of him who brings the good news.
449
00:21:45,137 --> 00:21:45,387
Okay.
450
00:21:45,387 --> 00:21:47,806
And this is very
where we know this passage very well.
451
00:21:47,806 --> 00:21:48,390
Right.
452
00:21:48,390 --> 00:21:53,353
And this, this one passage and two or
so others.
453
00:21:53,812 --> 00:21:56,523
really is the background for the
454
00:21:56,523 --> 00:21:59,526
what the word gospel means in the gospel,
in the New Testament.
455
00:22:00,110 --> 00:22:01,236
This is the origin of that.
456
00:22:01,236 --> 00:22:06,033
So that phrase, good news
is, is where Jesus gets when he says,
457
00:22:06,283 --> 00:22:09,786
when the authors of the gospel say,
Jesus went around
458
00:22:09,786 --> 00:22:13,957
proclaiming the good news,
it's a it's a link back to Isaiah.
459
00:22:13,957 --> 00:22:15,500
So this is this is here.
460
00:22:15,500 --> 00:22:16,251
So beautiful.
461
00:22:16,251 --> 00:22:18,170
In the mountains are the feet of him
who bring good news,
462
00:22:18,170 --> 00:22:20,714
who proclaim peace,
who bring good news of happiness,
463
00:22:20,714 --> 00:22:23,717
proclaim salvation,
who says to Zion, Your God reigns.
464
00:22:23,717 --> 00:22:26,720
Now what that does not mean is, Hey,
God is King of the world.
465
00:22:27,471 --> 00:22:31,767
No, we know this because the next verse,
the voice of your watchman,
466
00:22:32,142 --> 00:22:33,143
they lift up their voice.
467
00:22:33,143 --> 00:22:37,230
So these are this is figuratively looking
kind of portraying
468
00:22:37,522 --> 00:22:40,734
city watchman of, of Israel or Jerusalem
looking out.
469
00:22:41,068 --> 00:22:44,946
And the watchmen are like they lift up
their voice and they sing for joy. Why?
470
00:22:44,946 --> 00:22:47,407
Because they see
the return of Yahweh to Zion.
471
00:22:47,407 --> 00:22:50,410
So when it says, Your God reigns,
what it means is God is coming back,
472
00:22:50,994 --> 00:22:54,956
after exile, he's abandoned us
because we've abandoned him.
473
00:22:55,207 --> 00:22:56,875
But he's he's coming back.
474
00:22:56,875 --> 00:23:00,670
And that's the good news,
that God is coming back to do what?
475
00:23:01,963 --> 00:23:03,548
Well, that's what it says next.
476
00:23:03,548 --> 00:23:04,716
Break forth into singing.
477
00:23:04,716 --> 00:23:07,636
You waste places of Jerusalem
because Yahweh has comforted his people.
478
00:23:07,636 --> 00:23:09,179
He has redeemed Jerusalem.
479
00:23:09,179 --> 00:23:12,182
He has bared his holy arm
before the eyes of the nations,
480
00:23:12,182 --> 00:23:14,601
and all the ends of the earth
shall see the salvation of our God.
481
00:23:14,601 --> 00:23:16,895
He's bared his holy arm.
482
00:23:16,895 --> 00:23:17,813
This is.
483
00:23:17,813 --> 00:23:20,399
You can maybe catch a hint of Exodus
here, right?
484
00:23:20,399 --> 00:23:23,235
The God’s mighty arm of salvation.
485
00:23:23,235 --> 00:23:25,445
But it gets explicit in the next verse.
486
00:23:25,445 --> 00:23:25,946
Depart.
487
00:23:25,946 --> 00:23:28,949
Go out from there. Touch no unclean thing.
488
00:23:28,990 --> 00:23:30,200
Go out from the midst of her.
489
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,203
Purify yourselves,
you who bear the vessels of Yahweh.
490
00:23:33,328 --> 00:23:35,747
For you shall not go out in haste,
491
00:23:35,747 --> 00:23:38,375
and you shall not go out in flight.
492
00:23:38,375 --> 00:23:40,544
Well, where does that language come from?
493
00:23:40,544 --> 00:23:43,380
Well it’s
a direct reference to the exodus,
494
00:23:43,380 --> 00:23:47,426
where the people were told
at the pass at the Passover night.
495
00:23:47,426 --> 00:23:48,844
Right. Eat this quickly.
496
00:23:48,844 --> 00:23:51,096
Have your cell phone fully
charged, your keys in your pocket,
497
00:23:51,096 --> 00:23:53,765
because you're going to have to go out
in haste. Right? Right.
498
00:23:53,765 --> 00:23:56,560
And but this exodus, this is going to be
the new, greater exodus,
499
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,771
which will maybe take more time,
but will also be more complete, right?
500
00:24:00,272 --> 00:24:04,776
For Yahweh will go before you, and
the God of Israel will be your rear guard.
501
00:24:06,153 --> 00:24:07,863
Like, what is that?
502
00:24:07,863 --> 00:24:11,283
Wow. It's it's the it's
the pillar of fire and the pillar of cloud
503
00:24:11,908 --> 00:24:13,201
going before and behind the people.
504
00:24:13,201 --> 00:24:18,206
So in this with this imagery,
Isaiah is, is is speaking of God's
505
00:24:18,748 --> 00:24:22,085
act, of great act of salvation
that he's about to do
506
00:24:22,085 --> 00:24:25,088
when he returns to his people
as the new Exodus.
507
00:24:26,173 --> 00:24:28,842
there's other passages where Yahweh
508
00:24:28,842 --> 00:24:34,514
where sorry, Isaiah talks
about God's return as a, bringing back
509
00:24:34,514 --> 00:24:38,268
the exiles who were scattered
over a whole ton of nations this time
510
00:24:39,478 --> 00:24:43,190
he talks about drying up the channels,
the rivers, the seven rivers or whatever,
511
00:24:43,190 --> 00:24:46,985
and bringing the people back in sandals
right over on dry ground.
512
00:24:47,027 --> 00:24:48,570
Oh, right.
513
00:24:48,570 --> 00:24:53,158
Which is which is sort of crossing the Red
sea imagery and yet expanded
514
00:24:53,158 --> 00:24:56,536
because now the the people are exiled
to many nations and god’s.
515
00:24:56,536 --> 00:24:58,121
This is this imagery saying, look, I'm
516
00:24:58,121 --> 00:25:01,291
about to bring the people back
from wherever they are using new Exodus
517
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:02,918
language again.
518
00:25:02,918 --> 00:25:06,046
So return from
exile is spoken of as new Exodus.
519
00:25:07,589 --> 00:25:08,048
yeah.
520
00:25:08,048 --> 00:25:12,052
This a lot of this is new stuff like
these are passages that I've obviously,
521
00:25:12,052 --> 00:25:14,012
you know,
I've read that or I've heard that before,
522
00:25:14,012 --> 00:25:18,391
but but like actually again, basically
what you just to reiterate you're, you're
523
00:25:18,391 --> 00:25:22,229
tracing that thread through, you know,
through through the Bible not through.
524
00:25:22,229 --> 00:25:25,565
Just like we're going to look
at just one little passage or we're not
525
00:25:25,565 --> 00:25:29,569
it seems like this,
this methodology, biblical theology,
526
00:25:30,153 --> 00:25:33,990
isn't as much fixated on terms
and definitions.
527
00:25:33,990 --> 00:25:36,493
And, you know, am I am
I reading that right?
528
00:25:36,493 --> 00:25:39,454
It feels like systematic
theology is all about what is this term?
529
00:25:39,454 --> 00:25:41,331
And then we're going to study that
530
00:25:41,331 --> 00:25:43,416
this is very story
driven from what you're showing.
531
00:25:43,416 --> 00:25:43,833
Yeah. Yeah.
532
00:25:43,833 --> 00:25:48,255
It's very it's very oriented around motifs
images and stories.
533
00:25:48,255 --> 00:25:49,005
Yeah.
534
00:25:49,005 --> 00:25:52,008
Because that's
what the biblical authors are doing.
535
00:25:52,259 --> 00:25:52,551
Right.
536
00:25:52,551 --> 00:25:55,554
The biblical authors
spend way less time on technical terms.
537
00:25:55,762 --> 00:25:56,930
Which technical terms are great?
538
00:25:56,930 --> 00:25:59,599
Look, I've got a you know, I've,
I have a PhD.
539
00:25:59,599 --> 00:26:02,602
So I'm all into technical terms
in their, in their place.
540
00:26:02,769 --> 00:26:05,397
But the biblical authors are way
541
00:26:05,397 --> 00:26:08,400
less into technical terms
and way more into
542
00:26:08,692 --> 00:26:11,695
to in in a sense
their version of technical terms.
543
00:26:11,945 --> 00:26:16,241
Are these little images from that link
back to previous stories?
544
00:26:16,241 --> 00:26:19,077
That's fascinating. Yeah, Yeah,
that that makes a lot of sense.
545
00:26:19,077 --> 00:26:21,454
So when you actually say it,
I'm over here being like,
546
00:26:21,454 --> 00:26:22,747
oh yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
547
00:26:22,747 --> 00:26:23,748
But like,
548
00:26:23,748 --> 00:26:26,918
I have to think that like it doesn't,
I don't naturally
549
00:26:27,669 --> 00:26:28,628
think of the Bible that way.
550
00:26:28,628 --> 00:26:31,673
I think it's
because maybe we're just so used to seeing
551
00:26:32,382 --> 00:26:34,801
it like, here's a list of definitions
and here's the verses
552
00:26:34,801 --> 00:26:36,219
where they're brought out, you know.
553
00:26:36,219 --> 00:26:38,930
yeah,
A lot of it's our Western, you know, so
554
00:26:38,930 --> 00:26:42,350
most of most of the world is more story
based, story driven.
555
00:26:42,350 --> 00:26:42,767
Right.
556
00:26:42,767 --> 00:26:44,227
And and the Bible was written in the,
557
00:26:44,227 --> 00:26:47,230
in those cultures,
not in, not in modern Western culture.
558
00:26:47,355 --> 00:26:48,440
That's a great point!
559
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:49,733
You know, the Bible is actually built
560
00:26:49,733 --> 00:26:52,736
to connect with most of the world
more than it is with us.
561
00:26:52,902 --> 00:26:54,029
Right.
562
00:26:54,029 --> 00:26:57,616
So anyway, I should get to
a couple of things in the New Testament
563
00:26:57,616 --> 00:26:59,951
because so so it sets up for
I love how Matthew's gospel opens.
564
00:26:59,951 --> 00:27:02,329
because so so it sets up for
I love how Matthew's gospel opens.
565
00:27:02,329 --> 00:27:02,662
Right?
566
00:27:02,662 --> 00:27:07,334
Because Matthew's gospel opens by taking
that whole story and saying, guess what?
567
00:27:07,375 --> 00:27:10,086
The fulfillment
of this exile is about to be,
568
00:27:11,838 --> 00:27:15,133
to be ended and new Exodus is beginning.
569
00:27:15,133 --> 00:27:20,013
So Matthew starts
with the genealogy of Jesus,
570
00:27:20,013 --> 00:27:23,350
which most people think is super boring,
but it's actually very interesting.
571
00:27:23,892 --> 00:27:28,355
surprise,
because Matthew, Matthew, deliberately
572
00:27:28,355 --> 00:27:32,942
breaks it up into three groups of 14
generations, somewhat artificial.
573
00:27:33,109 --> 00:27:37,656
he's leaving some things out
and stuff like that
574
00:27:37,656 --> 00:27:40,659
to get because he wants the number
14 in all three.
575
00:27:40,784 --> 00:27:44,913
And what’s, I won't go into all that,
but what's fascinating is
576
00:27:44,913 --> 00:27:47,916
these three sections
are explicitly built around,
577
00:27:47,999 --> 00:27:51,503
the David, the Davidic, kingship.
578
00:27:51,503 --> 00:27:54,464
So it starts with Abraham,
the one who got the promises.
579
00:27:54,673 --> 00:27:58,093
And then the first section ends
with the rise of David the King,
580
00:27:58,718 --> 00:28:02,055
and then, and well, actually, I mean,
581
00:28:02,055 --> 00:28:05,183
he makes this explicit in verse 17,
the generations, from Abraham to David.
582
00:28:05,642 --> 00:28:09,771
14 so that's the first section,
and then David to the exile,
583
00:28:09,771 --> 00:28:11,022
the deportation to Babylon, 14.
584
00:28:11,022 --> 00:28:14,192
So the David to the loss of
the Davidic kingship and the
585
00:28:15,193 --> 00:28:16,903
people going into exile.
586
00:28:16,903 --> 00:28:21,282
And then the next three is the deportation
at Babylon, the exile to the Messiah.
587
00:28:21,282 --> 00:28:24,953
14 so just by structuring it
that way, you're meant to say,
588
00:28:24,953 --> 00:28:28,415
here comes the new David
to bring back the people from exile.
589
00:28:28,832 --> 00:28:33,837
And then Jesus birth narrative
is basically a recapitulation of, well,
590
00:28:33,837 --> 00:28:37,298
the first four chapters are recapitulation
of the Exile and Exodus story.
591
00:28:37,298 --> 00:28:41,511
So Jesus is born, and Herod functions
592
00:28:41,511 --> 00:28:44,514
in this in the way
the story is told as Pharaoh figure.
593
00:28:44,681 --> 00:28:45,014
Right?
594
00:28:45,014 --> 00:28:48,935
Who, decrees the
the the killing of the baby boys.
595
00:28:49,352 --> 00:28:51,396
Whoa. Okay, okay. Yeah.
596
00:28:51,396 --> 00:28:52,772
I don't know if I've ever thought of that.
597
00:28:52,772 --> 00:28:55,275
that's that's
that makes so much sense, though.
598
00:28:55,275 --> 00:28:57,902
And then Jesus gets sent to Egypt, right?
599
00:28:57,902 --> 00:28:59,988
And then he comes back from Egypt.
600
00:28:59,988 --> 00:29:03,074
Now we're starting now
he's, like, functioning as Israel, right?
601
00:29:03,408 --> 00:29:05,160
He comes back from Egypt.
602
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:10,999
and then the next thing in the story basically is
he ends up in the Jordan River,
603
00:29:12,375 --> 00:29:13,251
right?
604
00:29:13,251 --> 00:29:14,711
Yeah. Wow. Right, right.
605
00:29:14,711 --> 00:29:16,129
Fulfilling the story of Israel.
606
00:29:16,129 --> 00:29:19,799
And then after that, he's in the
wilderness for 40 days being tempted,
607
00:29:20,008 --> 00:29:21,801
which is
608
00:29:21,801 --> 00:29:25,096
his recapitulation of Israel's
being tempted in the desert for 40 years.
609
00:29:25,555 --> 00:29:27,515
Right. But he succeeds where they fail.
610
00:29:27,515 --> 00:29:28,683
And then next thing is
the sermon on the Mount,
611
00:29:28,683 --> 00:29:31,394
where he goes up to a mountain
and gives his new
612
00:29:31,394 --> 00:29:33,855
sort of what a Torah written on the heart
would look like.
613
00:29:33,855 --> 00:29:34,022
Right?
614
00:29:34,022 --> 00:29:37,400
So it's the story of Israel,
of exile and return.
615
00:29:38,651 --> 00:29:40,612
And then Matthew's gospel ends
616
00:29:40,612 --> 00:29:43,573
with Jesus celebrating a Passover feast.
617
00:29:43,782 --> 00:29:44,824
Right.
618
00:29:44,824 --> 00:29:48,495
because what he's doing is he's
speaking of the death
619
00:29:48,495 --> 00:29:53,374
he's about to die in terms of,
exile and exodus.
620
00:29:53,374 --> 00:29:57,378
So he's he's situating his death
in light of
621
00:29:57,921 --> 00:30:01,299
the new Exodus, because Passover is
embedded in the new in the in the Exodus.
622
00:30:01,299 --> 00:30:03,092
And then he dies.
623
00:30:03,092 --> 00:30:06,805
He dies, really as,
as Hebrews will say outside
624
00:30:06,805 --> 00:30:10,058
the camp, bearing our sins,
he dies as somebody who's cursed
625
00:30:10,767 --> 00:30:13,770
with the curses of the covenant
outside of the city.
626
00:30:13,895 --> 00:30:14,229
Right.
627
00:30:14,229 --> 00:30:19,108
the death of a cursed person,
basically taking the scapegoat
628
00:30:19,609 --> 00:30:23,363
imagery of the Old Testament,
cutting off from the people.
629
00:30:23,905 --> 00:30:26,825
Exiled, right away from God,
banished from the people,
630
00:30:26,825 --> 00:30:29,285
banished from God's presence,
banished from God's land.
631
00:30:29,285 --> 00:30:32,288
And and the New Testament sees in that
632
00:30:32,330 --> 00:30:36,084
Jesus taking the exile of his people
633
00:30:36,417 --> 00:30:41,631
so that his people can take his,
his blessings and and life.
634
00:30:43,424 --> 00:30:45,009
That is something.
635
00:30:45,009 --> 00:30:46,386
And you're using this all.
636
00:30:46,386 --> 00:30:48,221
This is just an example.
637
00:30:48,221 --> 00:30:49,973
Yeah. This is one is is one example.
638
00:30:49,973 --> 00:30:51,850
We could do this all day
with all sorts of others.
639
00:30:51,850 --> 00:30:53,476
All kinds of stories, themes.
640
00:30:53,476 --> 00:30:55,478
Well, in this whole. Yeah. Wow.
641
00:30:55,478 --> 00:30:58,606
The concept of the of this storyline
in, in in scripture, like,
642
00:30:59,649 --> 00:31:02,652
yeah, I'm going to have to
I'm gonna have to think about that because
643
00:31:02,777 --> 00:31:05,780
I can, I can I'm very much
seeing how this could be very applicable
644
00:31:06,155 --> 00:31:07,323
in a lot of different ways.
645
00:31:07,323 --> 00:31:10,243
You know, it
just in general, like how we read.
646
00:31:10,243 --> 00:31:11,828
Yeah, how we read stuff.
647
00:31:11,828 --> 00:31:14,789
You know, it's not I'm not you're
not reading a chapter in isolation,
648
00:31:14,789 --> 00:31:17,709
you know, not not reading a book
even in isolation.
649
00:31:17,709 --> 00:31:20,670
Because these things connect
all across the thread.
650
00:31:20,670 --> 00:31:21,713
And I think that's the key.
651
00:31:21,713 --> 00:31:23,548
That's one of the key
things is when you start
652
00:31:23,548 --> 00:31:26,551
realizing there’s connections everywhere,
you start looking for them
653
00:31:26,926 --> 00:31:28,094
and then you see them.
654
00:31:28,094 --> 00:31:31,764
That's kind of the one big thing
that that we, that people just.
655
00:31:34,392 --> 00:31:34,767
Yeah.
656
00:31:34,767 --> 00:31:37,312
It's not a quick you can't just be like,
657
00:31:37,312 --> 00:31:39,314
how do I know everything
I need to know about this?
658
00:31:39,314 --> 00:31:39,981
It's more like,
659
00:31:39,981 --> 00:31:43,860
you need to just change your perspective
on what you expect from the text.
660
00:31:44,485 --> 00:31:48,781
And once you see, once you realize, oh,
this is how the Bible works,
661
00:31:49,115 --> 00:31:51,492
then you see it everywhere
and you can't unsee it.
662
00:31:51,492 --> 00:31:54,287
But it would also
it feels like this, this methodology
663
00:31:54,287 --> 00:31:55,830
again, biblical theology or whatever.
664
00:31:55,830 --> 00:31:59,709
You know, this framework you're
presenting, would by its very nature mean
665
00:31:59,709 --> 00:32:02,712
you're reading a much more across
the whole sweep of Scripture.
666
00:32:02,712 --> 00:32:06,132
You know, you
there's which gets me excited
667
00:32:06,132 --> 00:32:09,135
because like the whole of Scripture
is being involved because honestly, like
668
00:32:09,427 --> 00:32:13,431
so many people, I, myself included,
only read in certain parts of the Bible.
669
00:32:13,431 --> 00:32:16,684
And then it's like the Torah, you know,
we just don't really read, I mean, well,
670
00:32:16,726 --> 00:32:19,395
maybe a little bit in Genesis,
but most of that is kind of,
671
00:32:19,395 --> 00:32:22,857
you know, but then you look at, oh, like,
I don't know, Jesus, you know, quoting
672
00:32:22,857 --> 00:32:24,567
Deuteronomy a bunch and you're like,
wait a second.
673
00:32:24,567 --> 00:32:26,069
There's probably stuff back there
I should know,
674
00:32:26,069 --> 00:32:28,112
but it's kind of hard to know what
what do I read.
675
00:32:28,112 --> 00:32:31,282
What you're describing
is is bringing that into
676
00:32:31,324 --> 00:32:34,577
as part of the essential process
of reading and understanding Scripture.
677
00:32:34,702 --> 00:32:36,871
And I think that's fantastic. Wow. Yeah.
678
00:32:36,871 --> 00:32:38,039
This this this is interesting.
679
00:32:38,039 --> 00:32:40,583
So let me just go to first Peter.
680
00:32:40,583 --> 00:32:45,588
because what's what Peter is doing
is Peter,
681
00:32:45,630 --> 00:32:48,633
and the rest of the New Testament
authors are seeing that, yes, this
682
00:32:48,633 --> 00:32:53,554
new exodus has kicked off in Jesus,
and yet it hasn't done.
683
00:32:53,554 --> 00:32:54,180
It's not done yet
684
00:32:54,180 --> 00:32:57,934
because we're not back at the blessed
land, which is for them, new creation,
685
00:32:57,934 --> 00:32:58,893
the new heavens, new earth.
686
00:33:00,186 --> 00:33:00,812
and so that
687
00:33:00,812 --> 00:33:04,607
means that what it means to be a Christian
right now, at this time,
688
00:33:04,899 --> 00:33:07,902
the whole span of between Jesus first
and second coming,
689
00:33:08,736 --> 00:33:12,573
is that we’re Christians, We’re people
who, yes, have been Passovered.
690
00:33:12,865 --> 00:33:13,199
Right.
691
00:33:13,199 --> 00:33:17,286
We've we've we've experienced the
beginnings of Exodus and yet we're exiles.
692
00:33:17,912 --> 00:33:21,666
And so the whole story,
all the stories of Israel's exile,
693
00:33:21,874 --> 00:33:25,670
the story of Daniel, the story of Jeremiah
and his letters, the all that stuff
694
00:33:26,170 --> 00:33:29,424
speaks to the moment that we're living in
as Christians.
695
00:33:29,674 --> 00:33:31,134
We're exiles.
696
00:33:31,134 --> 00:33:33,386
And Peter, Peter's
letter is framed around that.
697
00:33:33,386 --> 00:33:37,265
So what's fascinating is that, 1st Peter,
most scholars agree that
698
00:33:38,433 --> 00:33:42,395
1st Peter is written primarily to a
Gentile or Gentile Christian audience.
699
00:33:43,021 --> 00:33:43,688
Okay.
700
00:33:43,688 --> 00:33:47,316
But he kicks off the letter by saying,
Peter, an apostle of Messiah Jesus,
701
00:33:47,942 --> 00:33:50,945
to those who are the chosen exiles
of the dispersion.
702
00:33:51,154 --> 00:33:53,906
So and this is not a throwaway phrase.
703
00:33:53,906 --> 00:33:54,490
Oh, that's.
704
00:33:54,490 --> 00:33:58,619
Yeah, yeah, that's so funny
how I've read that and just not just you.
705
00:33:58,786 --> 00:34:00,830
It's so, it's just
part of the greetings in the letter.
706
00:34:00,830 --> 00:34:02,540
You just kind of read right through it,
you know.
707
00:34:02,540 --> 00:34:03,750
He’s meaning to tell his people
708
00:34:03,750 --> 00:34:06,753
because Peter's all about suffering
that will be followed by glory.
709
00:34:07,045 --> 00:34:08,504
And it's all about framing.
710
00:34:08,504 --> 00:34:11,507
This is what it means to live and suffer
as a Christian.
711
00:34:11,674 --> 00:34:15,094
in light of you're in exile,
waiting for the final redemption.
712
00:34:15,094 --> 00:34:20,850
So then he'll say, according to God's
mercy has caused us to be born again
713
00:34:20,850 --> 00:34:25,980
through, the resurrection of Jesus
to an inheritance that is kept in heaven,
714
00:34:25,980 --> 00:34:30,151
waiting for us to be revealed
at the last time, that final salvation.
715
00:34:30,151 --> 00:34:32,487
Speaking of of the inheritance.
The inheritance of what?
716
00:34:32,487 --> 00:34:34,197
The promised land, right?
717
00:34:34,197 --> 00:34:35,698
The new heavens and new earth.
718
00:34:35,698 --> 00:34:37,492
And then he says, so,
719
00:34:38,534 --> 00:34:42,622
how are you supposed
to how are you supposed to act? Do not,
720
00:34:42,663 --> 00:34:45,875
as obedient children, don't be conformed
to the passions of your former ignorance,
721
00:34:45,875 --> 00:34:48,252
your former gentile,
you know, sinful way of life.
722
00:34:48,252 --> 00:34:52,507
But as the one who called you is holy,
you also be holy in all your conduct,
723
00:34:52,507 --> 00:34:54,884
since it is written,
you shall be holy, for I am holy.
724
00:34:54,884 --> 00:34:58,054
And this is taking Exodus language,
the language of God's
725
00:34:58,054 --> 00:35:00,723
relationship to his people, and saying,
You're God's holy people.
726
00:35:00,723 --> 00:35:02,266
And so.
727
00:35:02,266 --> 00:35:05,520
if you call on him as father, who judges
impartially according to each one's
728
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,940
deeds, conduct yourselves with fear
throughout the time of your exile,
729
00:35:10,108 --> 00:35:13,611
because you know that you were ransomed
from the futile ways inherited
730
00:35:13,611 --> 00:35:14,904
from your forefathers,
731
00:35:14,904 --> 00:35:17,657
not with perishable things
such as gold and silver, but with the
732
00:35:17,657 --> 00:35:19,659
the blood of the precious blood of Christ.
733
00:35:19,659 --> 00:35:22,411
So no, remember that God has exodused
734
00:35:22,411 --> 00:35:25,498
you from sin, and in light of that,
735
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,668
live the rest of your life as exiles,
736
00:35:28,668 --> 00:35:31,671
so as people
who, yes, are here in the world,
737
00:35:32,171 --> 00:35:34,715
but who don't belong here
and are waiting for,
738
00:35:34,715 --> 00:35:38,427
for your true, your true home.
739
00:35:38,761 --> 00:35:43,015
And so put away all malice and deceit
and hypocrisy.
740
00:35:43,975 --> 00:35:46,936
As sojourners and exiles in chapter two,
741
00:35:46,936 --> 00:35:50,940
abstain from the passions of your flesh
which wage war against your soul. Why?
742
00:35:50,940 --> 00:35:53,359
Because you're in your exiles, right?
743
00:35:53,359 --> 00:35:54,443
Keep your conduct
744
00:35:54,443 --> 00:35:55,736
among the Gentiles honorable,
745
00:35:55,736 --> 00:35:59,574
so that when they speak evil against you
as evildoers, they may see your good deeds
746
00:35:59,574 --> 00:36:02,577
and glorify God on the day of visitation.
747
00:36:02,702 --> 00:36:03,578
Whoa!
748
00:36:03,578 --> 00:36:04,370
So, so live as people who are exiles
in the surrounding world,
749
00:36:04,370 --> 00:36:07,373
So, so live as people who are exiles
in the surrounding world,
750
00:36:07,415 --> 00:36:08,958
not letting the world,
751
00:36:09,959 --> 00:36:12,879
make you think that you're home
and just sort of succumbing to it,
752
00:36:12,879 --> 00:36:16,716
but also caring about what everyone else,
how how you witness to
753
00:36:16,757 --> 00:36:20,845
who you really are caring about that
the Gentiles, which is really interesting.
754
00:36:20,845 --> 00:36:22,555
He's calling the non-Christians Gentiles,
755
00:36:22,555 --> 00:36:23,931
even though he's writing to ethnic
Gentiles.
756
00:36:23,931 --> 00:36:26,517
Right. Why? Why?
757
00:36:26,517 --> 00:36:29,353
Because in the previous verse
he says, you are a chosen race,
758
00:36:29,353 --> 00:36:32,023
a royal priesthood, a holy nation,
a people for his own possession,
759
00:36:32,023 --> 00:36:36,152
which is straight up Exodus 19
Oh yeah, okay, that starts making sense.
760
00:36:36,152 --> 00:36:38,279
That's a very,
very good point. He’s taking Exodus
761
00:36:38,279 --> 00:36:41,073
language and, and language
of God's relationship with Israel.
762
00:36:41,073 --> 00:36:42,992
And he's saying, this is your story now.
763
00:36:42,992 --> 00:36:44,368
That whole story.
764
00:36:44,368 --> 00:36:44,785
Yeah. Yes.
765
00:36:44,785 --> 00:36:47,538
You're you're
you're you're ethnic Gentiles, whatever.
766
00:36:47,538 --> 00:36:50,666
But no, you are that that story is yours.
767
00:36:51,083 --> 00:36:54,086
And and so you live,
768
00:36:54,170 --> 00:36:57,673
he says once you were not a people,
but now you are God's people.
769
00:36:57,673 --> 00:37:00,593
Look, you're God's people now.
The Exodus story is yours.
770
00:37:00,593 --> 00:37:02,511
And so the exile story is yours, too.
771
00:37:02,511 --> 00:37:06,474
So walk around as God's kingdom
of priests, as Israel was supposed to do.
772
00:37:08,142 --> 00:37:10,436
and wait
773
00:37:10,436 --> 00:37:14,732
your time in exile,
not caving to the pressures of sin, but
774
00:37:14,732 --> 00:37:18,903
waiting for, the Gentiles to eventually
glorify God on the day of visitation.
775
00:37:18,903 --> 00:37:20,112
What's fascinating about that word
776
00:37:20,112 --> 00:37:23,824
visitation is it's
basically the same words that form
777
00:37:24,367 --> 00:37:28,788
roughly the same word,
that is used in Exodus for when,
778
00:37:29,872 --> 00:37:35,211
when, Moses goes to the people and,
and delivers to them.
779
00:37:35,211 --> 00:37:37,296
Hey, God is
780
00:37:37,296 --> 00:37:39,674
God is here to to redeem you.
781
00:37:39,674 --> 00:37:41,467
And they recognize...
782
00:37:41,467 --> 00:37:44,470
They rejoice because God has visited them.
783
00:37:44,845 --> 00:37:47,932
or at in Exodus also when Moses
784
00:37:48,224 --> 00:37:51,352
takes, takes the bones of Joseph
785
00:37:52,353 --> 00:37:55,898
and the in the Exodus he carts
Joseph’s bones,
786
00:37:55,940 --> 00:37:58,943
the text says, Joseph made them swear.
787
00:37:59,735 --> 00:38:02,405
He Joseph said, God will visit you.
788
00:38:02,405 --> 00:38:03,906
And when he does take my bones.
789
00:38:03,906 --> 00:38:06,826
So that language of in
in first Peter of wait
790
00:38:06,826 --> 00:38:10,454
for the day of visitation
is saying live in exile.
791
00:38:10,454 --> 00:38:13,457
As people who suffer, people who are good
792
00:38:13,874 --> 00:38:16,877
bear God's name well to the Gentiles
793
00:38:17,128 --> 00:38:20,131
who don't make Egypt your home
794
00:38:20,172 --> 00:38:23,134
right, and wait for God's visitation.
795
00:38:23,134 --> 00:38:26,470
Double click the new exodus that you're
that you're, you know, waiting for.
796
00:38:26,679 --> 00:38:29,682
And then this
this is why he speaks so much about slaves
797
00:38:29,682 --> 00:38:34,061
be subject to your masters, wives
be submissive to your husbands.
798
00:38:34,186 --> 00:38:37,273
Particularly, I think, somewhat not.
799
00:38:37,315 --> 00:38:38,274
Not entirely, but somewhat.
800
00:38:38,274 --> 00:38:41,193
He's talking,
about non-Christian husbands.
801
00:38:41,193 --> 00:38:45,281
And in this case, he talks about,
802
00:38:45,823 --> 00:38:50,828
he talks about suffering
since the Messiah suffered in the flesh.
803
00:38:50,828 --> 00:38:53,456
Arm yourself
with the same way of thinking.
804
00:38:53,456 --> 00:38:55,875
he says,
805
00:38:55,875 --> 00:38:59,086
don't be surprised at the fiery trial
when it comes upon you,
806
00:38:59,253 --> 00:39:02,465
but rejoice in that you are sharing
in the Messiah's suffering.
807
00:39:05,676 --> 00:39:07,386
And then he says
808
00:39:07,386 --> 00:39:10,014
that, he and all of us,
809
00:39:10,014 --> 00:39:13,434
by implication,
are sharers in the sufferings of Messiah
810
00:39:13,434 --> 00:39:17,980
as well as a partaker of in the glory
that is to be revealed in the future.
811
00:39:18,314 --> 00:39:23,402
So it's all framed around the idea
that this motif of exile
812
00:39:24,403 --> 00:39:26,530
and then the expectation of full,
813
00:39:26,530 --> 00:39:29,533
full, the full realization of Exodus
that has started,
814
00:39:30,076 --> 00:39:32,328
drives
what it means to live as a Christian
815
00:39:32,328 --> 00:39:35,331
in our world, in our society,
816
00:39:35,414 --> 00:39:38,125
right
as we wait for the conclusion of the exile
817
00:39:38,125 --> 00:39:41,295
theme is Genesis, revelation 21 and 22.
818
00:39:41,295 --> 00:39:41,962
When God's people
819
00:39:41,962 --> 00:39:45,091
are brought to the new heavens, new earth,
and there's rest and peace,
820
00:39:45,841 --> 00:39:48,886
and it's a restoration of Eden, God's
presence is fully there, right?
821
00:39:48,886 --> 00:39:51,180
So that ultimate,
you know, undoing of exile.
822
00:39:52,431 --> 00:39:55,643
Wow. So I mean, that's that's fascinating.
823
00:39:57,770 --> 00:40:00,773
I keep going when
I, when I get started on these themes.
824
00:40:01,607 --> 00:40:06,028
okay, so you just outlined some very
fascinating things that that was great.
825
00:40:06,070 --> 00:40:09,865
that that thread, the storyline
through scripture, however,
826
00:40:10,116 --> 00:40:11,659
at least in my own personal experience
827
00:40:11,659 --> 00:40:13,786
and so I don't know how much the
the data is on this,
828
00:40:13,786 --> 00:40:17,331
but it seems like our, our anabaptist
people and just in general, maybe other
829
00:40:17,415 --> 00:40:21,627
American church, however you want to say
it tends to do the systematic
830
00:40:21,627 --> 00:40:25,589
theology thing more like what
you just outlined, is not something
831
00:40:25,589 --> 00:40:28,759
I've heard people use that approach
very often.
832
00:40:28,884 --> 00:40:31,554
I mean, you know, even in,
even in, like, Bible college and,
833
00:40:31,554 --> 00:40:33,973
you know, Bible schools
and I don't know, wherever sermons.
834
00:40:33,973 --> 00:40:36,559
why is that? That's a good question.
835
00:40:37,726 --> 00:40:39,478
I'm not totally sure.
836
00:40:39,478 --> 00:40:43,190
It's, I think it's sort of an in some ways
an accident of history
837
00:40:43,691 --> 00:40:46,694
in our culture that for various
838
00:40:47,236 --> 00:40:50,865
reasons, over the last couple
hundred years, maybe a few hundred years,
839
00:40:51,365 --> 00:40:55,578
especially maybe post
maybe Post-enlightenment especially.
840
00:40:55,619 --> 00:41:00,583
I'm not sure, that we like abstracted.
841
00:41:01,500 --> 00:41:03,544
we're. Yeah.
842
00:41:03,544 --> 00:41:07,548
I think some of it really is
is is the the way that
843
00:41:08,799 --> 00:41:11,844
back in the 1700s
kind of eventually theology
844
00:41:11,844 --> 00:41:15,097
and biblical
theology got kind of separated
845
00:41:16,015 --> 00:41:20,394
and and for some reason we tend to like
846
00:41:20,936 --> 00:41:23,939
and think is more applicable and relevant.
847
00:41:25,357 --> 00:41:26,692
tangible, just abstract
848
00:41:26,692 --> 00:41:29,695
sentences
that I know what to do with or something.
849
00:41:29,945 --> 00:41:32,990
and we tend to think of the story
850
00:41:32,990 --> 00:41:35,993
as being some kind of,
851
00:41:36,911 --> 00:41:40,664
kind of unnecessary conveyor
or like carrier of the meaning,
852
00:41:40,664 --> 00:41:44,460
which is the meaning
is what I abstract out of it rather than,
853
00:41:44,460 --> 00:41:48,464
no the meaning is the story itself,
and you can't abstract the meaning.
854
00:41:49,673 --> 00:41:52,676
I so I don't know, I'm it's it's changing.
855
00:41:53,052 --> 00:41:55,513
now, there's
certainly the rise, you know, of
856
00:41:55,513 --> 00:41:58,516
the increase in popularity of biblical
theology.
857
00:41:58,682 --> 00:42:03,479
is definitely really encouraging,
but it hasn't taken root everywhere yet.
858
00:42:04,230 --> 00:42:06,941
it's kind of,
maybe it's a bit of a fascination
859
00:42:06,941 --> 00:42:10,236
with trying to nail down definitions
and like, that kind of thing.
860
00:42:10,236 --> 00:42:12,112
Is that have anything to do with it?
861
00:42:12,112 --> 00:42:12,738
I yeah.
862
00:42:12,738 --> 00:42:15,824
And I think it's just become
so it's just become
863
00:42:17,201 --> 00:42:19,203
part of our own expectations
864
00:42:19,203 --> 00:42:22,748
now for generations that when I, when I
look at the Bible and I do theology,
865
00:42:23,207 --> 00:42:26,502
I kind of expect to see I'm
looking for a list of
866
00:42:27,670 --> 00:42:31,298
of definitions to abstract nouns,
you know, which I'm all for.
867
00:42:31,632 --> 00:42:34,009
But but that I don't know.
868
00:42:34,009 --> 00:42:35,678
I'm not really sure.
869
00:42:35,678 --> 00:42:39,723
I would say it's because we tend to root
ourselves in the epistles, but even that
870
00:42:39,723 --> 00:42:43,102
I don't think that's the right answer
honestly, because I think the
871
00:42:43,394 --> 00:42:46,605
I mean, I’ve taught Galations
you know, a number of times.
872
00:42:46,939 --> 00:42:49,733
And one of the things
this past time that I think
873
00:42:49,733 --> 00:42:53,070
was surprising to to students was the way
874
00:42:54,029 --> 00:42:57,032
that Paul himself is such a story based.
875
00:42:57,241 --> 00:42:59,326
He's a biblical theologian, right?
876
00:42:59,326 --> 00:43:01,912
We tend to think of him
as a guy with all the abstract nouns.
877
00:43:01,912 --> 00:43:05,457
But no, he's he's just doing he's
just doing biblical theology.
878
00:43:05,666 --> 00:43:06,375
Oh, interesting.
879
00:43:06,375 --> 00:43:07,918
Oh, man,
that feels like that could be a whole
880
00:43:07,918 --> 00:43:09,295
nother episode right there,
because I would.
881
00:43:09,295 --> 00:43:14,258
I would love to see how that works because
he's like, lifted up almost as as that.
882
00:43:14,258 --> 00:43:16,260
Yeah. The the definitions.
883
00:43:16,260 --> 00:43:19,638
And the, all these convoluted words
and, and abstractions and and so forth.
884
00:43:20,306 --> 00:43:21,015
but that's interesting.
885
00:43:21,015 --> 00:43:23,809
I feel like you're hinting at something
there that'd be worth diving into.
886
00:43:23,809 --> 00:43:28,022
You know, I'm like a huge fan of Paul
and I am a huge fan of some of those
887
00:43:28,022 --> 00:43:28,397
big words.
888
00:43:28,397 --> 00:43:31,817
I think that like defining justification
is important and things like that.
889
00:43:32,318 --> 00:43:36,196
But most of what Paul's doing
is, is looking at the story
890
00:43:36,196 --> 00:43:39,908
of the Old Testament in light of Jesus
and the outpouring of the spirit.
891
00:43:40,868 --> 00:43:44,997
And that's the that's it's theology
is the intersection of those things.
892
00:43:46,248 --> 00:43:48,584
Yeah, that's that's fascinating.
893
00:43:48,584 --> 00:43:49,251
That's important.
894
00:43:49,251 --> 00:43:52,087
So with that being the case.
895
00:43:52,087 --> 00:43:54,089
And so if somebody is listening
or watching this
896
00:43:54,089 --> 00:43:56,467
and they're saying, wow,
this is fascinating.
897
00:43:56,467 --> 00:43:59,595
how can they apply this
in their own lives,
898
00:43:59,595 --> 00:44:01,847
whether it's just personal Bible study,
or maybe they're
899
00:44:01,847 --> 00:44:05,059
preparing a devotional to share at church
or prepping a Sunday school lesson.
900
00:44:05,684 --> 00:44:07,603
what are some really simple,
practical tips?
901
00:44:07,603 --> 00:44:10,397
Because even as you're sharing this,
I'm like, this is amazing, but,
902
00:44:10,397 --> 00:44:12,066
how do I do this myself?
903
00:44:12,066 --> 00:44:14,401
You know, what are some simple tools
and things we can use?
904
00:44:14,401 --> 00:44:16,779
Well, honestly,
905
00:44:16,779 --> 00:44:21,992
the solutions are not microwave
ready, right?
906
00:44:22,326 --> 00:44:28,540
So part of, Okay, so one,
I mean, probably the biggest thing that I,
907
00:44:28,666 --> 00:44:33,921
that I mentioned
before was just by, by exposure,
908
00:44:34,296 --> 00:44:37,758
one comes to, to change
one's expectations.
909
00:44:38,300 --> 00:44:39,885
One tends to come to the text
910
00:44:39,885 --> 00:44:42,888
expecting a whole ton of connections
to everywhere else in the Bible.
911
00:44:43,389 --> 00:44:48,686
and one starts reading the Bible
expecting any passage to say to,
912
00:44:48,977 --> 00:44:51,522
first of all,
reading it in in its immediate context,
913
00:44:51,522 --> 00:44:53,691
but then reading it in light of everything
that's come before it in
914
00:44:53,691 --> 00:44:56,026
redemptive history and everything
that comes after it in redemptive history.
915
00:44:57,569 --> 00:45:01,949
But, honestly, one of the biggest,
one of the biggest things then
916
00:45:01,949 --> 00:45:07,037
is you just you you have to become like,
as familiar as you can with the Bible.
917
00:45:07,579 --> 00:45:09,915
So with that expectation,
I think it's both right.
918
00:45:09,915 --> 00:45:13,669
You have to have that expectation,
that these this is all interconnected.
919
00:45:13,669 --> 00:45:18,048
But then you just got to read right
a lot, over and it just takes years.
920
00:45:18,465 --> 00:45:18,716
Right?
921
00:45:18,716 --> 00:45:22,428
All of us are still, are still learning
and seeing because that's what
922
00:45:22,678 --> 00:45:24,096
that's what the prophets did.
923
00:45:24,096 --> 00:45:24,346
Right?
924
00:45:24,346 --> 00:45:26,265
That's
why they're that's why they're literature
925
00:45:26,265 --> 00:45:29,393
is so steeped in earlier scriptures
that that's what they're saturated in.
926
00:45:29,685 --> 00:45:34,523
That's what Paul that's the reason
Paul is and and and Matthew and Luke
927
00:45:34,523 --> 00:45:37,693
and John is because they were so steeped
in the Old Testament.
928
00:45:38,026 --> 00:45:40,320
Right.
And there's really not much of a shortcut.
929
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,031
There are good resources
you can use that can help you get started.
930
00:45:43,031 --> 00:45:46,034
there's lots of great stuff
out there now.
931
00:45:46,201 --> 00:45:48,620
especially in the
last ten years or 15 years.
932
00:45:49,705 --> 00:45:51,957
but at the end of the day,
933
00:45:51,957 --> 00:45:55,961
it's a lot of it's, you know,
keep reading, keep reading and expect
934
00:45:55,961 --> 00:45:58,881
that some of the places in the Bible
where that you thought were less
935
00:45:58,881 --> 00:46:01,967
relevant are actually kind of relevant
because they're going to provide,
936
00:46:03,802 --> 00:46:05,304
pieces of the story and pieces
937
00:46:05,304 --> 00:46:08,307
of the symbolism that that later scripture
is going to pick up.
938
00:46:08,724 --> 00:46:12,019
So it's it's this, this idea of
939
00:46:12,019 --> 00:46:15,397
just reading the whole scope of Scripture
would be a decent place to start.
940
00:46:15,397 --> 00:46:18,150
Then for like,
just like immerse yourself in this,
941
00:46:18,150 --> 00:46:19,943
like you're saying
they were saturated with it. Yeah.
942
00:46:19,943 --> 00:46:20,444
And so.
943
00:46:20,444 --> 00:46:24,865
Well, remember, I mean, they didn't have
like Bible Gateway or logos or whatever.
944
00:46:24,865 --> 00:46:28,243
And so when Paul is reading the Bible,
945
00:46:29,161 --> 00:46:33,415
it's, he's, it's, it's whatever he has
in his mind of the rest of the Bible.
946
00:46:33,415 --> 00:46:35,834
That's how he recalls connections, right?
947
00:46:35,834 --> 00:46:37,586
He's reading Isaiah and he's like,
wait, wait, wait, wait.
948
00:46:37,586 --> 00:46:39,505
yeah. This passage. Right.
949
00:46:39,505 --> 00:46:43,550
And so the the more passages you have in
your head, the more stuff is going to like
950
00:46:44,593 --> 00:46:46,637
kind of the connections you
can make in your head when you're reading
951
00:46:46,637 --> 00:46:49,640
any one passage is like, wait,
that reminds me of this, this and this.
952
00:46:49,765 --> 00:46:52,267
Right. yeah.
953
00:46:52,267 --> 00:46:56,647
I mean, there's yeah,
there's so many there's so many examples.
954
00:46:56,647 --> 00:46:59,066
I mean, I teach, I teach like
extensively on this kind of thing.
955
00:46:59,066 --> 00:47:01,318
So you can't, can't boil it all down.
956
00:47:01,318 --> 00:47:01,652
But yeah.
957
00:47:01,652 --> 00:47:06,114
So the three things I would say
is, one just expect
958
00:47:06,114 --> 00:47:09,785
that the Bible is a unified story,
that, that,
959
00:47:10,828 --> 00:47:12,704
that is all interconnected.
960
00:47:12,704 --> 00:47:16,708
Second, be as familiar with as many parts
of the of the text as you can.
961
00:47:17,334 --> 00:47:18,210
And then third,
962
00:47:18,210 --> 00:47:21,463
there are great resources out there,
that can help you get started.
963
00:47:22,589 --> 00:47:23,423
Yeah.
964
00:47:23,423 --> 00:47:27,469
And then biblical theology is not
is also meant to inform systematics.
965
00:47:27,469 --> 00:47:30,639
So what,
at the very beginning of this episode, we
966
00:47:30,806 --> 00:47:34,351
we said how systematics emphasizes
conclusions.
967
00:47:34,351 --> 00:47:36,019
But still how do you get there?
968
00:47:36,019 --> 00:47:39,481
Bad systematics is basically cherry
picking a bunch of like, proof texts?
969
00:47:40,357 --> 00:47:40,858
Yeah.
970
00:47:40,858 --> 00:47:45,070
Good system, good systematic
theology takes biblical theology,
971
00:47:45,946 --> 00:47:49,741
starts with biblical
theology and understands it pretty deeply
972
00:47:49,825 --> 00:47:53,453
and then says, okay, based on the way
this theme kind of works out
973
00:47:53,787 --> 00:47:54,913
these interconnected themes.
974
00:47:54,913 --> 00:47:58,709
Now, what synthesis and conclusions
can we draw, and how can we maybe use
975
00:47:58,709 --> 00:48:00,586
different language, language
976
00:48:00,586 --> 00:48:03,589
that maybe connects with our culture
more philosophical or whatever,
977
00:48:03,714 --> 00:48:06,717
to kind of to kind of convey
those conclusions?
978
00:48:06,967 --> 00:48:09,261
So that's kind of the difference
between good and bad systematics.
979
00:48:09,261 --> 00:48:10,012
So it's still either,
980
00:48:10,012 --> 00:48:12,347
you know, either way you're
kind of reliant on biblical theology.
981
00:48:12,347 --> 00:48:12,806
Yeah
982
00:48:13,223 --> 00:48:14,474
And maybe some of your listeners will say,
well,
983
00:48:14,474 --> 00:48:16,518
this seems kind of impractical and, and,
984
00:48:16,518 --> 00:48:18,979
and whatever,
but I, I would beg to differ.
985
00:48:18,979 --> 00:48:24,318
I think that, I think the New Testament,
is so steeped in this stuff.
986
00:48:24,318 --> 00:48:27,613
And like I showed in first Peter,
the story is
987
00:48:27,613 --> 00:48:30,616
it is meant to change the way we live.
988
00:48:30,741 --> 00:48:34,369
And so I think the one last thing
I'll say is with biblical theology,
989
00:48:34,703 --> 00:48:36,455
when we think about application,
990
00:48:36,455 --> 00:48:38,916
we need to just expand what we mean
by application.
991
00:48:38,916 --> 00:48:42,169
We like, I think, with the story
based nature of the Bible.
992
00:48:42,711 --> 00:48:45,339
application is not just here's
a very specific thing
993
00:48:45,339 --> 00:48:49,009
I can do next Tuesday, but it is
how do I reshape?
994
00:48:49,217 --> 00:48:50,093
How does the stories
995
00:48:50,093 --> 00:48:53,555
and how does the big story of the Bible,
reshape the way I view my life?
996
00:48:53,555 --> 00:48:54,181
Right.
997
00:48:54,181 --> 00:48:57,309
So yes, it's
I need to suffer well, suffer injustice
998
00:48:57,309 --> 00:48:58,727
well love my enemies, whatever.
999
00:48:58,727 --> 00:49:01,647
But it's also I need,
as first Peter would say,
Speaker:
00:49:01,647 --> 00:49:04,900
you need to think of yourself
through the lens of the story of exile.
Speaker:
00:49:05,275 --> 00:49:05,567
Right?
Speaker:
00:49:07,027 --> 00:49:07,861
that seems like
Speaker:
00:49:07,861 --> 00:49:11,198
nebulous, but that's what that's
what the text calls us to
Speaker:
00:49:11,198 --> 00:49:14,868
do, is to change the way we see ourselves
in the world through these stories.
Speaker:
00:49:15,077 --> 00:49:16,912
And that process takes a long time.
Speaker:
00:49:16,912 --> 00:49:19,456
But that's application. Wow.
Speaker:
00:49:19,456 --> 00:49:22,125
That seems like a process worth doing.
Yeah.
Speaker:
00:49:22,125 --> 00:49:23,418
Wow, thank you so much for sharing.
Speaker:
00:49:23,418 --> 00:49:24,878
I appreciate you coming on, Paul.
Speaker:
00:49:24,878 --> 00:49:25,671
Thank you.
Speaker:
00:49:26,546 --> 00:49:29,383
Thanks for listening to this episode
with Paul Lamicela.
Speaker:
00:49:29,383 --> 00:49:32,094
If you found this interesting,
one of the topics he mentioned
Speaker:
00:49:32,094 --> 00:49:35,681
was his teaching on the book of Galatians,
and we'd actually interviewed him
Speaker:
00:49:35,681 --> 00:49:36,682
about that topic.
Speaker:
00:49:36,682 --> 00:49:39,977
And you can find that episode linked
in the description down below.
Speaker:
00:49:40,310 --> 00:49:43,438
Thanks again for watching
and for your support of this podcast.
Speaker:
00:49:43,438 --> 00:49:48,485
You can find all our content over on
our website at anabaptistperspectives.org.
Speaker:
01:01:46,411 --> 01:01:49,080
how do
we read the Bible as a unified story
Speaker:
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:52,834
instead of in disjointed fragments
in this episode,
Speaker:
01:01:52,834 --> 01:01:57,338
we cover the topic of the storyline
throughout the whole of Scripture,
Speaker:
01:01:57,338 --> 01:02:00,341
and Paul will give us tools on
how to do that.
Speaker:
01:12:50,824 --> 01:12:51,241
Yeah.
Speaker:
01:12:51,241 --> 01:12:53,035
So, how are we looking, Jeremy?
Speaker:
01:12:53,035 --> 01:12:55,704
Basically, throw this up and then.
Speaker:
01:12:55,704 --> 01:12:58,707
Ow ow ow ow ow. Here we go.
Speaker:
01:12:58,916 --> 01:13:00,542
Did you get a good down there?
Speaker:
01:13:00,542 --> 01:13:03,837
All right, so this is for the guy,
and it's this nice.
Speaker:
01:13:04,421 --> 01:13:06,465
Otherwise. Wow.
Speaker:
01:13:06,465 --> 01:13:08,675
Excellent. Oh,
Speaker:
01:13:08,675 --> 01:13:09,301
nice.
Speaker:
01:13:09,301 --> 01:13:12,179
Do you come up with a good clickbait
title yet?
Speaker:
01:13:12,179 --> 01:13:12,805
Not yet.
Speaker:
01:13:12,805 --> 01:13:15,641
Oh, I said, well, no,
I think he should get AJ.
Speaker:
01:13:15,641 --> 01:13:17,518
I'll be honest.
Speaker:
01:13:17,518 --> 01:13:18,685
Really good.
Speaker:
01:13:18,685 --> 01:13:19,019
That was.
Speaker:
01:13:19,019 --> 01:13:22,022
That was impressive.
Speaker:
01:13:22,147 --> 01:13:26,026
I mean, yeah, if we do this, that
and try to write about clickbait.
Speaker:
01:13:26,318 --> 01:13:29,071
No, no, no, that is clickbait. But,
Speaker:
01:13:30,864 --> 01:13:32,366
I don't know.
Speaker:
01:13:32,366 --> 01:13:35,369
I know it's.
Speaker:
01:13:35,786 --> 01:13:37,079
Scary. Yeah, that's