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Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening wherever you may be, Scott Luton and special guest host, one of a kind, the one and only Karakoze here with you on Supply Chain.

And welcome to today's livestream.

Karah, how you doing today?

Very well.

Long weekend, of course, a lot of food.

And now ready to dive deep into Supply chain.

Again with you and thanks for having me.

Well, everyone here knows you, I'm sure.

And folks, if you don't know Korah, but you watch or tune into the Buds regularly, you know that Korah drops in every once in a while in the comments when he's not moving mountains out there in industry.

But we got him for the whole hour in person or in digital person, I guess.

And I can't wait to learn for all of us have the opportunity to learn from Karai here today.

So, folks, it's the Buzz where every Monday at 12 noon Eastern time, we discuss a variety of news and developments across global supply chain and business.

And Korai, we got some great topics here today.

The digital divide, Rivian tariffs, agentic AI.

I think I said that right.

New ransomware attacks that impacts all of us in our piping hot beverages and a whole bunch more.

So stay tuned to all of that.

Karai, are you buckled in, hanging on tight to your socks and ready for the next hour?

Ready to go?

Are you ever not ready to go?

Maybe sometimes.

Of course, as everybody.

But if you drop the supply chain buzzword, then probably you can wake us up at any point in time and you can go.

We're going to do some spousal interviews to get to the bottom of that.

Aw.

But hey, nevertheless, folks, glad you're with us here today.

Two things really quick.

Hey, give us your take in the comments as we work our way through all the stories and resources here today.

Just like Trisha, Trisha and Amanda are behind the scenes helping to make it happen every day.

Trisha says happy Buzz day.

Say hello, let us know where you're watching from.

And thanks for joining us.

That's right, Trisha, great to see you, the pride of Cincinnati.

And then secondly, if you enjoy the show today, we'd love for you to share it with a friend and your network.

They'll be glad you did.

Okay, so Cobra really quick, I did not acknowledge Thanksgiving.

You know, here in the US coast to coast, we celebrated last week and through the weekend with great food and football and families and friendships and fire pits, at least in our universe.

Korah, what was the highlight of your Thanksgiving?

We actually went up to Vermont and saw the first snow of the season and enjoyed sledding.

So that was was a first for this year.

And had great dinner.

And no, we couldn't avoid the political debate to pop up at some point, you know, post dinner and post some bourbon.

So we had that, too.

Well, you know, that's why we have adult beverages.

Right.

To make that a little less painful, probably.

But anyway, sounds like a wonderful time, Kar.

Lots of great passion out there for sure.

All right, folks, we've got a lot to get into here today.

You know, we're going to start where we always do and that's with some resources.

Now a weekend some change ago, we published the latest edition of our almost weekly newsletter.

With that said, we took last weekend off, of course, with Thanksgiving going on and all.

But you know, if you subscribe to this, you can always expect lots of resources, news, views and a whole bunch more with each and every edition.

Plus, you get convenient reminders for the week's upcoming live shows.

So we're going to drop the link to this last one here.

And Karan, you know, I know that you're very active in giving back and giving forward, as we call it around here.

And we are, too.

We share that right actionable value.

Well, one of the things we hit on in the last with that said is this powerful nonprofit called Elevate Our Kids.

And they're on a mission to close the digital divide here in the U.S.

now, here are these numbers.

It's been estimated that up to 25 million kids either don't have access to the Internet or they lack the electronic devices to use to learn and connect and grow and Elevate Our Kids has made it possible for a $300 donation to the nonprofit where they're going to turn around and provide a laptop and Internet access to these families in need.

We're dropping the direct link they fundraise this time of year every year.

We're proud to support them.

What an incredible noble mission.

And we hope you'll consider in all the giving you do this time of year to make any kind of donation to the Elevate Our Kids Team Koran.

You know, the digital divide is certainly it's a global massive challenge, right.

And a lot of folks, unfortunately in their families are left behind, job wise, income wise, being able to connect with family for that matter, we've got to solve it better and more effectively around the globe, huh?

Absolutely.

And if you think about this generation being the native digital generation, every year they start too late to get acquainted to the responsible use of technology is going to extrapolate in their future life to multiple years.

So the earlier they have access, the earlier they learn responsibly to deal with technology and integrate it into their day to day life.

And education, for that matter, is a gain for everybody.

So the donation is not just helping an individual, but in that term it will help us to be more equipped for the future and equipping the future generations.

And no pun intended.

So it's a great initiative.

I haven't thought about that.

Because as bad of an issue the digital divide was, say 10 years ago here and now, where humanity, the generations, the business world has all shifted even more to all things digital.

You're getting left further behind so we can do something better about that.

So folks, there's lots of great nonprofits out there that are helping address this, elevate our kids because we're familiar with some of the people behind it and the great work they do gets our rubber stamp approval.

So check them out and if you're in position to make a difference, we'd love for you to join us in doing so.

All right, so folks, we try to make it easy.

One click away from.

With that said, which again goes out just about every week.

We'll have our next edition going out this coming weekend.

And that donation drive we were just talking about, one click away right there in the chat.

Okay, so Karai, we got a lot to get into here today.

We're going to start guns ablazing.

We're going to start with a story that really drew quite a reaction, and that is this Rivian story.

Now folks, bear with me.

Let me kind of unpack this a bit.

We're going to get Korai's perspective on this as well.

But I'm not throwing shade here.

Okay?

Not throwing shade.

Y'all know me better than that.

But I did seem to hit a nerve last week.

So I was talking about sharing this News.

Based on Q3 2024 figures that the company released, Rivian is losing close to $40,000 per vehicle through $39,130 per vehicle.

Now, I've been somewhat tracking the Rivian story ever since they announced this mega plant and broke ground here in Georgia that by many accounts was projected to have a Massive impact on the state and really the region.

Right.

I'm talking 8,500 jobs just at the Rivian plant alone, not including the automotive clustering that goes on the base, the whole ecosystem that comes along with major investments like that.

Right now many of you know the story because we've covered it here on the buzz.

The state of Georgia spent $125 million to buy and develop the 2,000 acre tract out here east of Atlanta.

That was part of, I believe, a $1.5 billion overall incentive that they lured Rivian here with.

But the problem, we kind of get stuck in the weeds here because the project was put on pause in March of 2024 due to a variety of challenges that Rivian and many other organizations.

To be fair, certainly Rivian was experienc, some outside of their control, such as the EV industry.

Of course, sales growth has slowed dramatically.

It's still expanding.

Had a couple commenters made that real clear.

That's a great point.

It's still expanding, but growth is much, much slower.

And then some problems inside the company's control, such as, you know, supply chain issues for sure, but also being able to turn a profit on each vehicle, that's a bit of a problem.

And their loss per vehicle has grown.

Rivian averaged about $32,000 loss per vehicle in 2023.

And again as we mentioned in Q3 this year, closer to 40.

Here's a twist.

Karai and Karai, I'm telling you, this put a lot of, what's a nice way to put it this wrinkled a lot of feathers.

I'll just leave it like that because US federal government announced a $6 billion loan to Rivian to help them complete the Georgia plan.

Right now this LinkedIn post I shared, we're dropping a link there folks.

I had a caught the proverbial tiger by the tail because these what I thought was innocuous sharing numbers and just straightforward nonpartisan perspective.

Well, it elicits about 140 comments and some 265,000 impressions.

So you know, evidently the rest of the world kind of like me, is interested to see where this Rivian story goes.

So Kara, especially with someone with your background knowing automotive like you do, what's your take on this Rivian story?

Well, there are a couple angles, right.

I think you cannot avoid the political angle in this context.

Of course, given that Rivian is a competitor to Tesla and you know how Elon Musk supported a specific political outcome in the latest election and this decision coming post election sounds a bit like A statement post election and when I say sounds a bit like everybody can make up their own opinion about that.

To make a second point is Georgia has not always won those big investments as we also talked pre show.

And if you think about Chattanooga, VW's investment, BMW, Mercedes, all being outside of Georgia and in the surrounding states like Tennessee and Alabama, I think there is a point to be made that there is an internal state to state competition to get these companies be in state and support the local economy.

Which is not insignificant to be honest, because with every autoworker There are 10 to 15 other in the sphere of the product itself, but also in the sphere of the employees and their service industry, restaurants, you name it.

So when we think about that, it is an investment that makes sense to bring in larger corporations.

Of course not every corporation is ready for striving in this context in the period of time.

So it is something that is not unusual to support companies in their investments.

The timing of it is of course I would say odd.

And also in the context of the industry and where the industry specifically with EV is going, putting that foot down like that is also something people will have to debate.

When you think about Rivian and you comment about every vehicle is losing scale is of importance.

And when we're thinking about the post strategies of EV car makers that come to the market, they started to go from high value vehicles down to mid tier and lower tier vehicles.

And that is not necessarily how the market scales up naturally because we now see the Chinese EV makers actually taking down established brands like VW in their home markets when it comes to affordable electrical vehicles.

And that is something that Rivian has not proven to bring to market.

And that is of course a concern.

When we think about the $6 billion taxpayer investment to go into the quote unquote loan, the question is, you know, what are the payback terms of the loan and will they ever be paid back by a company that may run bankrupt so that it's something where the opportunity cost needs to be considered.

Korah, just like I knew you would.

You brought it.

All of that's gold.

It kind of created a couple thoughts that I want to pull out from what you shared.

I want to spike the football on this folks.

First off, as you alluded to, we got to be able to ask tough questions in industry, right?

Without it being construed as being political.

Sometimes we got to step on toes to have the conversations we need to have.

We do it polite, but still, I gotta ask questions.

Also, the contracts you mentioned, Kara, I think this is an opportunity because I would love, I would love to get my hands on the loan documents related to that 6 billion.

And it's not again, not picking on Rivian.

This happens a lot in government contracts.

The US taxpayer isn't always the winner here.

But on the flip side, two sides.

All this is Karab eloquently pointed out here in Georgia and really the Southeast.

I'm pulling for Rivian, I'm pulling to figure this thing out because the ramifications and the positive impact will be massive.

Just much like the Kia plant in West Point, Georgia that made that really change the state in many ways.

And finally, two last points there, Karai.

I believe the EV industry is going through some revolutionary evolutions and I think it will eventually arrive at something that's much more viable, that is much more economical, economically feasible.

And eventually we're not there today, but eventually it'll be more sustainable in the earth sense when it comes to the end to end supply chain that supports it.

We'll get there.

But as I shared to one of our commenters, Karam, blessed are the first movers, you know, even the second movers or third movers, whatever you want to call it in this case.

Right.

But even more blessed are those that have a profitable and proven out business model.

And that's what we're still trying to get with the great folks at Rivian.

Sharp people.

I hear great things about their cars.

They're good looking cars.

We're pulling for them here.

Kara, your last word about the Rivian story, the EV industry.

And we're going to move on to.

Topic number two, maybe in context of our next topic where we will talk a little bit about the southern Dynamics of the U.S.

economy.

I think this is also something that we need to put into that context.

And the collaboration with Volkswagen hopefully will yield some abilities for Rivian to go into mid tier and lower tier cars as well, making that part of their portfolio and eventually turning the tide of not losing 30k plus per sale and manufacturing of a car.

And that would help actually Atlanta and everyone in the surrounding area supporting that kind of economic, no pun intended, buzz that is happening there through that, hey.

That dog will hunt, as we say here in Georgia, and would make a massive positive impact.

So we're hoping that things get turned around and go heading in the right direction.

Okay, so Korah, you gave me a wonderful segue and I did not use it, but I got a good reason.

My pen that I was taking down my notes from CO has blown up.

You blew up My pen.

I was trying to grab all of your take so fast it blew up all from my hands.

All right, folks, stay with me here.

We're going to get back on track.

All right?

So let's shift gears.

Let's talk about something that I don't know, that no one's talking about, that's far less combative of a topic.

Let's talk about the potential Trump tariffs.

And of course, I'm being highly facetious there, Kara.

Highly, highly facetious.

We took our Wheaties this morning, ate our Wheaties.

We're ready to go tackle some of the biggest topics.

So it's been tariff talk nonstop across supply chain conversations everywhere and really beyond.

As reported here by our friends at Supply Chain Dive.

President elect Trump has been making tidal waves with his calls for tariffs.

Not just waves, tidal waves.

Some of the biggest ones that he's mentioned.

You can see it right here in the headline.

This is on day one, 25% tariffs on imports from Canada and Mexico and a 10% additional tariff on goods from China, all with an executive action he says on day one.

Now, we also all know here, because we got the smartest audience in all the world, the ripple effect this might have on global supply chains.

It definitely would have on global supply chains, especially pricing, trade wars, complexity.

Goodness gracious.

Now, I'm trying to be an impartial observer here, so I gotta ask, how much of this is bluster meant for trade and policy negotiations?

Maybe part of it, maybe not.

Now here I have a prop, Kara, and that is over the weekend.

Over the weekend, okay, it's the world's most boring prop.

Yes.

But over the weekend, if you see this headline, Wall Street Journal, Retailers play up tariff fears to lure reluctant shoppers.

How about that?

And basically, if you read that story and go check it out, folks, this weekend, some retailers have seized on all this tariff and are using it as a sort of FOMO factor to encourage consumers to buy, buy, buy, or really pay a lot more later.

Hey, you got to hand it to those innovative marketing minds, right?

But one last item that some folks may have forgotten about and I can't wait to get co rise.

Take care.

The supply chain dive article, which we're dropping a link in the comments as well, points this out.

The United States, Mexico, Canada agreement, AKA the usmca, which basically was a far updated version of nafta.

If you remember NAFTA when it was passed forever ago, all that helps to optimize trade here in this very UN part of the world, that all three countries should take advantage of.

But it comes up for renewal in 2026 in what would be President elect Trump's second year in the new term.

We should also mention that the USMCA was enacted in 2018 during Trump's first term.

So lots of moving pieces here.

Kara, I can't wait to hear your take.

So when we're thinking about this, we can remember the 2018, 2019 trade wars that also were in connotation to the USMC, important for some significant changes in the foreign direct investments into the Northern American market.

And I speak Chinese investment specifically in this context, into Mexico, just sharing a number there.

2018, the Foreign Direct investment into the Mexican economy by Chinese companies was around $267 million.

Doesn't sound much.

2023, it was 5.6 billion.

Wow.

So.

And when we're thinking about that, 3 billion went into automotive alone of Chinese companies such as BYD going into Mexico and starting manufacturing locations there.

So putting tariffs on a conversation between the US And Mexico, just to start with that frame, is important in the context of why and the question there is answered in the specific second sentence of the Trump president elect administration, which says, because we have a border security issue and we have a cartel and other issues like fentanyl.

So that may sound very political in that context, but what we're looking at is a tit for tat.

So if you're helping me to figure the security issue out and we can stop the drug cartel's dominance in this trade, then we may actually not go that route.

And the latest conversations between Sheinbaum and Trump on the phone alluded already to that to cooperate in a very effective manner.

Both sides said that to avoid this kind of inner trade zone trade war because there are bigger trade wars to come, specifically in context of the US China relationship and how that will take a different route starting January.

Kara, hit the nail on the head, I think.

And to kind of further piggyback on your last point there, folks, no one is saying that we should set up relationships where the US Is losing in its trade with Mexico and Canada.

But as we talked about, this is a unique part of the world.

We have an opportunity to create a very powerful, not just trading bloc, but geopolitical alliance and use that to Karaz last point, there's coming trade wars and unfortunately, perhaps a lot worse.

And we need to strengthen their friendships and the right business relationships so we can be much more prepared for what's to come.

So, Korah, I am very optimistic that we're going to work through these issues and hopefully without turning global supply chain on its head.

But we'll be tracking this story too, huh?

Absolutely.

And I think like this will help to bring Mexico and the US Closer as contrarian that may sound because there is a new president in Mexico, there is going to be a new old president in the US where we already know that some of the things will be more popular than maybe economically viable.

In that context, however, there will be an opportunity to build bridges.

And in that context there will be a trade.

And that trade is I'm going to be mandating certain things unless you do certain things.

And in the context of economic dependency, the US Is the hottest sell into market on this planet.

You need to recognize the strength and if you recognize that strength and you put it against certain things that are undermining its ability to develop an economy and a resilience where the fair game isn't played globally in supply chains.

And we will talk about that later in the show as well.

Where you know, certain labor rights and compliance with certain regulations is undermined even by state authorities.

Investments in the companies is not driven by free market but by political parties as is done in certain Chinese environments.

And I'm not anti China, but if you don't play the games and the free trade market by its rule you cannot expect a company out of a free market to scale as quickly as a company out of a non free market.

And the same way when the tariff discussions comes up is not because the economic dependency is going to be broken but it's because there are other issues undermining it.

And it's more and I see it not as a surgical thing.

I see it more as a here is a consequence to actions that we're ready to take because the other consequences is too big to bear continuously and it's not necessarily going to end like that but it starts a conversation that is long overdue.

That's right, long overdue as much as in this world.

Good stuff there Korai.

And folks, you know, don't just take what me and Karai or our take on it.

Check out the story.

And this is just one of many as we were talking about this tariff talk everywhere these days.

Check it out and let us know your take such as big show.

Bob Bova is back with us.

Great to see you.

Bob says tariffs should be used surgically with pinpoint accuracy.

Targeting China and specific products.

Using it to bludgeon like a sledgehammer will not help us, Bob says or it won't help our costs or consumer prices.

I Think we all largely agree with that Bob.

Good point.

Will Quinn hails from Napierville, Illinois.

Great to see you Will.

Great to have you back.

He says China is expanding its manufacturing operations in Mexico to circumvent tariffs.

That goes back to I think those data points that Kara was sharing.

Earlier this year Will said I attended a conference in Mexico City where there was a significant presence of truck manufacturers.

However, it was surprising to see a lack of automation companies.

I think generally speaking Will and Karad invite your take.

Every market, every country has its opportunities.

Mexico, the market down there has been just, it's been a rock and roll, it's been blowing up from all sorts of different countries making investments and of course the business was already down there.

But much like the US much like China who has had to turn to automation out of necessity.

Right.

Because workforce challenges.

I think we'll see Mexico do the same thing.

Karai, your final thought there.

The largest free labor market is in mid of Mexico.

So if you have labor issues and you're worried about that, well there is a land of opportunity down there.

Now you need to figure out guess what, your supply chain and the logistics to your markets where you're going to sell the product to.

And that has been an impediment in Mexico because the interconnectivity within Mexico is not really strong logistics wise.

So the northern part of Mexico has developed so strong because it's easier to get the products into the U.S.

but if you are shipping out of southern Mexico or around Mexico City it's more complicated.

But again with the new presidency in Mexico and investments into infrastructure such as rail road and ports, this hopefully will become an issue of the past and then there is literally land of opportunity and collaboration.

It doesn't mean that the Rivian plant in Georgia is actually bad investment because quite honestly it is going to be a more cohesive market down the road and it's going to be one of those trading blocks.

When we think about the globalization to be re globalized in the trade routes that we look at today will be different then this is a trading block that is significant in context of consumption but also in manufacturing.

And that is a big issue for the US because quite honestly with the demise of the demographics in China and the way things are going, the US is going to be expected in output, not consumption, manufacturing size to increase its own capacity by 10x.

So is there future in manufacturing?

Absolutely there is future in manufacturing and in this trading block as well.

So whatever the renegotiation time will be in 2026 as you pointed to as important it will be its outcome.

Yes.

And speaking of manufacturing, another thing we shared over the weekend, you know, access to energy, especially inexpensive energy, is critical to fueling about any sector these days.

But especially manufacturing.

Right.

Plants take a lot of power and one element to a really big conversation There is the US and over 20 countries last year announced a commitment to tripling nuclear power.

Right.

We'll see if we can't find a link and drop it.

That's fascinating conversation related to the latest chapter of the nuclear power industry.

So stay tuned on that.

Okay, co writing, we're going to shift gears here.

We're going to get into the lesser, not caustic, but the lesser contentious topics.

Right.

The first half of the show was a contentious stuff.

Second half show will be more on the technology side.

That's where we want to go next.

I want to talk about something that I'm still learning about, quite frankly, what Forbes calls quote, the most up and coming area in generative AI.

And they're talking about agentic artificial intelligence.

So what is agentic AI?

Well, Kara is going to check me on this, but I've got a definition.

As best as I understand it, it's a type of AI that uses context and objectives to act independently, to plan, make decisions and adapt, over and overcome to achieve goals.

Now Gentec AI can learn and optimize its performance over time without humans.

Two fascinating stuff.

So Karai, your take two part question here.

Your take on agentic AI.

What I'm missing perhaps and what more folks need to know about and how do you see it making an impact in global supply chain?

Agentic AI is going to be more than what many people would be fathoming right now.

And I don't say that very often in context.

What it would do, it's taking true autonomous actions into our supply chain processes.

And what that means is that it's suddenly you don't have a coworker.

You have someone in your enterprise that has infinite, almost capacity for analyzing unstructured data.

Out of many, many systems that a lot of companies have historically grown into ERP instances, tens of them, applications, hundreds of them.

And if you're a category buyer and sitting literally in the front lines, you never use one system only to take your full action after you made a decision.

You need many systems to make a decision and then you need to once you got to the decision, you need many systems to act up on that.

And you need probably also many other stakeholders to get it done.

So what agentic AI can do is taking all of that into one single engine that by a specific purpose call it, let's say a risk agent takes out the information and the alerts that currently through AI systems are given as insights or information merely and analyzes it thinks about the next best action and given its autonomy based on of course, the preferences of the company's risk appetite.

Where you would give it autonomy, it would act.

What it could do is pull push orders, put in a purchase order, think about a substitute and go out for a sourcing event immediately without delaying any time until a decision is made, which in the normal environment is the norm, not the exception.

And unfortunately, when you think about disruption in supply chain, there's a time and the window of opportunity and the very early beginning of it evolving where you can actually do something that's meaningful, maybe even avoid the impact.

If you now because you're busy with yourself or you don't have the right incentives because you rather focus on a supplier rather than C suppliers, then over time the problem grows bigger.

And when the problem is too big and the pain is there already felt in your supply chain, usually you're just trying to lower the impact.

But not anymore.

True mitigation in the context of avoidance, energetic AI would take AI that generates an analysis or genai that creates new information out of information that was available to you now into the true next step, which is the action actionable intelligence.

And if we think about that in context of and I'm not going to blur or maybe use oh, it's going to be your coworker.

No, it's actually going to replace you in the context of analyzing to doing and you need to think about utilizing it in the right context.

So you find a way where humans still are the most important in ingenuity in collaboration and relationship management.

Because one thing AI does not have is actually any empathy.

It doesn't.

It will take a few years until it has that and it will then pretend empathy.

It still won't have empathy.

So in that context, we need to be ready for agentic AI and one data point before I hand it back over to you.

Even in 2023, there were 500 million agents already flying around different maturity levels.

Of course, like book me a flight from that low maturity to more complex where you say write me a contract based on my business profile that I can use and it would actually not only write it and it could actually negotiate.

And there are a couple companies out there that negotiate autonomously already in sourcing events.

And when we're thinking about 500 million in 2024, it's going to grow anywhere to 10 billion and north of that.

So it is currently going pretty steep.

Remarkable.

I'll tell you, the speed of innovation, real innovation that's already making an impact is just amazing.

Two last thoughts here.

I like how you put it.

It doesn't have empathy for now a couple years, it's going to have empathy even if it is not genuine empathy.

It's amazing what machines and technology can replicate effectively practically.

But I've seen it where you know, we just published a podcast episode last week or two with partner at McKinsey, right.

There's a lot of their supply chain manufacturing work and he was talking about one interesting AI application.

I'm not sure what type of AI, but how it was being used in a workforce negotiating environment and the impact it's been having.

I think I've talked about this on a previous show, Karai, is that safety incidents as a result of these ongoing negotiation is down.

Like workforce complaints are down and the business is saving great money.

All they're attributing it to how they arrived at a stronger workforce partnership negotiation, contract.

What have you partially attributed to how AI was being leveraged to find common ground amongst humans?

That's fascinating.

The second thing Kara, I wanted to mention is folks, if you go read this, this is interesting.

I think this whole article that we're pointing to from Forbes, it's not all about agentic AI.

This is more of like a newsletter.

And this headline deals with one of the elements of the newsletter.

But in the interview that deals with agentic AI, Karai, going back to kind of how you were speaking about the evolving nature of jobs, the job it kind of used as an example was HR leaders, right.

And evolving or their roles that organizations don't want their HR leaders sorting through, you know, resumes and all that stuff can be easily automated much, much more effectively.

But the context and experience where they're interviewing and they're using that judgment on how to predict how certain potential employees will add to the bottom line or add or be successful in their role.

That is fascinating.

And some element of that will be applied to just about every job out there.

Except Kara, what you were very honest and upfront with some jobs, repetitive in nature for a set number of hours each day where they're doing the same thing over and over again, those already are being automated and that's just keeping it frank and keeping it real, right, Korah?

Absolutely.

And it will be actually more motivation to understand what's coming because then you can make decisions on developing yourself into areas where you can be a unique value that is not replaceable.

As much as I think very normal evolution, utilizing technology over a period of time.

The only difference right now is you're looking at a pace that is unprecedented of change one, and the second one is you're looking at the change that is unprecedented, like the industrial revolution.

So when the steam engine came around, this is something like that.

When electricity came around, this is something like that.

Not many have experienced it.

And it comes at a time also, which is very interesting, where a generational switch from management to different generation of management.

So the boomers getting out and now in the final years of it, but still owning some of that responsibility.

But they're clashing with the time of agentic AI actually taking off.

And that is where the high risk is.

If you don't embrace it, if you don't utilize it right now in your environment, then you're setting up the company that you will be leaving into retirement into a dire situation where they will be rolled over by companies that run really lean, efficient supply chains and they can actually act instantaneously.

And if you are still not relying on that technology at that point.

We talked about Rivian, right?

Making losses per product sold well.

Those losses will be very much tied to your production efficiency and your supply chain effectiveness.

And agentic AI will be key to those decisions.

So that is what is unique about this.

Well said, folks.

Raise your hand, volunteer.

Learn something new every day.

I know that sounds very cliche, but it's so true in this environment we're in right now.

And I would add, it could have been this Forbes newsletter, could have been something else.

I was reading that despite all we hear about and in some cases are using AI, a lot of organizations, they're not using informal ways.

And to Karaz point, unfortunately, those will be the folks that get steamrolled over.

So learn something new every day, raise your hand and be willing to take on new responsibilities and challenges.

Okay, let's see here.

Alex tuned in from Prague.

Kara, Alex says, always a pleasure to hear your insights.

I'm with you, Alex.

I always enjoy learning from Kara as well.

Folks, Trisha dropped that link to that forward article we were just touching on and I wanted to grab one more thing you mentioned, Rivian.

I don't mean to take us in a different direction, but Bob had a great point going back to the loan.

Bob says you could use tax dollars to prop up a business, but if people won't buy a product Then what?

That's a great question.

That's a great question.

Good stuff there.

Agentic AI.

More to come on that, folks.

Get ready now.

And Kara, I think you've got a piping.

Formerly piping hot beverage.

Right.

As you were doing your homework for this next story.

I did actually.

So get this folks, we're gonna stick with technology.

Sorry, y'all bear with me.

A little head cold from the changing weather patterns here in Georgia.

It's 70 degrees one day and 29 the next.

So we're working through it.

But Article 4, we're sticking with technology and we're going to talk about the ransomware attack that hit a lot of folks radar last week as reported here by USA Today.

Blue Yonder, that's right, the supply chain software company based in Scottsdale, Arizona.

Well, it announced that it had been hit with a ransomware attack on November 21st that has caused Blue Yonder to suffer tech outages that impacted some of its customers, as you might expect, such as Starbucks.

The famed coffee maker said that the attack impacted its ability to track baristas hours and manage their pay.

CNBC reported last week that Starbucks was utilizing, get this like the rest of us, do a few manual workarounds as they were trying.

And good on you as they were trying to make sure everyone gets paid on time.

It's always important.

Even more important during the holidays for sure.

Now, the U.S.

office of the Director of National Intelligence released data a few months back that suggested that ransomware might set an all time record in 2024, exceeding the 4506 attacks that were recorded globally in 2023.

Now if you're surprised by that, go to Google and type in cybersecurity.

We got to get you up to speed.

No one should be surprised by that.

Two last things here.

Half of all 2024 recorded ransomware attacks as reported by this US agency, federal agency, targeted US organizations.

This is global global documentation.

Half targeted US companies and healthcare and the public sector are the top areas in global business that are regularly targeted daily, if not hourly by ransomware attacks.

Now Karai, beyond all that, you did your homework.

You had to go see it firsthand.

And I think what you found is it did not interrupt the customer experience.

Right.

But what else would you like to add on yet you know what happens every hour here in industry?

I would say it's sort of like old news popping up every time because companies just underestimate cybersecurity in the context of supply chain.

I think cybersecurity is always in contact of privacy and data privacy when it comes to personal identifiable information, like your credit card information or spii, like your Social Security number, for instance.

Right.

So when we're thinking about that context, unfortunately not too many do too many things about this.

And when we then look at the outcome of that, this is just a lucky incident in that context, right?

Black Friday around the corner blew yonder down.

I mean, how are you going to run your sales in the biggest event of the year?

And that could have been much, much more impactful and hurt a lot of companies, even the economy per se.

So the takeaway from this is just the same as every time we have.

There were solar winds, if you remember that.

Do something about cybersecurity not after an incident happens, but think about it as a part of your cost to run your business.

And if you think about that, then you need to put and establish specific technology that is outsmarting those attacks.

And with AI and agentic AI that we just talked about, these attacks will just skyrocket because now you don't have some crazy coders down in a Russian basement.

Again, nothing against Russia.

Yeah.

But like, you know, you don't have these crazy geeks just trying to code something into your system, but you have these free floating AI agents trying to crack into your data.

And maybe not even to get your data, but to stop your business.

And maybe that's the only intention.

And when we're thinking about that, it's no surprise that it comes on Black Friday, quite honestly.

So takeaway one, do something about it as part of your cost of running your business, as much as you pay your lawyers.

Right.

You should have lawyers to write contracts.

You should have cybersecurity software to run your supply chain software.

And the third of all of that is have a contingency pen and paper is not a bad thing when systems are not running, but it's not probably the best thing you should think about in this context.

Well said actual advice there, folks, because everybody is susceptible.

Everybody.

Right.

And as we learned, and I keep saying this, but it was just such a fascinating webinar session A few months back we had a technology guru, but one of the things he's done thousands of times over the years is participate and represent clients in ransomware demand negotiations.

And one of the first things he shared is he was sharing actionable advice with our audience.

And Amanda and Trisha, if y'all could drop link to that webinar, that'd be awesome.

One of the first things he shared, Karai, was folks and I'm paraphrasing.

You got to understand these bad actors, in their mind, they're not bad actors.

They're just doing their job.

They're clocking in, clocking out.

Their job just happens to be, you know, finding ways in to organizations and getting paid via ransoms.

And until we understand and recognize and act on that, we're going to keep losing.

So it was an eye opening webinar, folks, so check that out.

And Korah, well said.

The good news about all these daily if not hourly ransomware or other cyber incidents is hopefully it's helping bridge that awareness gap that we still have crazily to think about it, but we still haven't 2024.

Yeah, absolutely.

Okay, so Fast and Furious finish here.

Kara, hang on a second.

I want to go back.

We're going to talk two things.

We're going to talk a nonprofit that you have been serving and helping for years now.

I want to make sure folks know about that and then we're going to make sure folks know how to connect with you here in just a minute.

But I want to go back Sardine, but this person makes a great point.

My job will be eradicated with the upcoming AI.

He's curious about the validity and security of the CSCP certification for the future and he's referencing the certified supply chain professional certification put out by the ASCM organization.

We'd need a whole conversation, probably focus more on this.

I was very familiar with this a couple years ago when I went through it and I'm not sure the current body knowledge.

But most importantly and more actionable is folks, any certification, any program that you're investing your hard earned dollars in.

Don't take the school's pitch to heart.

Find out what it's comprised of.

Do your research based on your current job, where you want to get promoted to, or what type of job you want out in the marketplace and kind of build a candidate profile for what successful candidates have.

But do your homework.

Don't buy into the, you know, certification sales folks are convincing, right?

And it goes to what we all want, which is career success.

But ask these types of questions as you're looking at programs, certifications, degree programs, you name it.

Correct.

Would you add anything to that?

No.

Absolutely.

Like, you know, you need to know when the program was last updated and what are the key topics that will be trained and shown to you at the end of the day.

I always believe like if you don't know the topic, even the technology won't make you an expert.

So it's good to have foundational knowledge about supply chain and that will distinguish your value to companies anyways.

However, when you think about your hard earned dollars to go into specific education or certifications, look at reputable organizations first.

Second, look at the updated programs and if they do not reflect necessarily the latest in technology and quite honestly also the breadth of supply chain responsibilities, that is not anymore just putting a PO in.

But guess what?

Now you need to understand financial statements, you need to understand geopolitics, you need to understand customs clearance, you need to understand compliance regulations.

If that does not cover it, then you may not actually invest into enabling you to do things better, but you're enabling that program to survive even longer.

Even though it's a zombie program I call it, right?

Like I don't need a program to tell me how to write in carbon paper format purchase waters.

Quite honestly I don't.

And guess what may still be around.

Like you may discover that.

But I also don't need a program that is just hyping a specific topic without context.

So I totally and wholeheartedly agree with you.

Don't spend your dollar too easily based on the marketing spiel.

Make sure it helps you to be better supply chain, educated, professional, but also it gives you some things that you literally didn't know about and are coming down the pipe.

Yes, well said Korah.

As this LinkedIn user, I'm not sure who this is, but love that advice.

Appreciate you popping in with us here and I bet Amanda and Trisha would let me know folks, been there and done it with all sorts of certification programs.

Do your homework please.

Please do your homework.

And folks, if you do get displaced, unfortunately, whether it's related to technology or related to other market challenges, maybe use some kind of continuing education as part of your ask as you're negotiating your.

Exit package, such as watching the Buzz or supply chain.

Now, the content you bring out I would actually consider highly educational.

No pun intended.

Okay, so paid for this.

But there are also other folks on LinkedIn like shout out to Daniel Stanton who puts his LinkedIn learning supply chain programs up for free.

So there's a lot of things out there that you can follow.

Supply chain now Daniel Stanton Laura Cesare There are a lot of people that put free content out there, so you don't need a certification to prove yourself.

And if somebody asks for it, maybe that hiring manager didn't really know about topics that you already know.

So I would always go down the topic discussion line versus you know, what kind of certification do you have to show me today?

And any job description that has that I would probably step away from for a minute and think about what kind of Persona do they really need in this job and am I going to be happy in this job if really the first thing is I need this certification why?

Right.

So think about before applying, ask the.

Tough questions, especially the one that starts with why.

So good stuff there.

CO Wright and this is Sylvia Judy, our dear friend Sylvia Judy from Charleston, South Carolina and incredible supply chain capital.

And she says agree 100%.

Supply chain now is highly educational.

Hey, I appreciate that Sylvia and Koraya are making our day here today.

Alex, I think sharing something here kind of going back to what you were sharing earlier.

Alex says a fool with a tool is still a fool.

I love that it rhymes too.

Let's see.

All right, so co rhyme fast and furious finish.

There's two things I want to ask you about.

I admire you and all the great work you do.

Tim Nelson, the whole team over at Hope for Justice, which is a powerful nonprofit, if you would remind our audience about their incredible mission.

So they're all about eradicating modern slavery out of our supply chains where we have probably the biggest impact to manage our consumption and be very educated in our decisions.

We can help Hope for Justice that has little boots on the ground to help people to escape the chains of modern slavery and also bringing a partnership to the businesses that unintentionally contribute to that.

So it is an organization that is self funded which means we have to contribute for its success and its growth and scale.

Every dollar that you spend into Hope for Justice is at its highest rate going back into the mission, which is helping not only the people to escape but also companies to become better in the way they are putting policies into action.

Latest article that Tim Nelson shared was about Italian tomatoes in the US not really being Italian, but coming out of the Xinjiang province because tomatoes don't have a serial number on it.

Right?

You as a consumer would probably pay triple because it's hey it's Thanksgiving Great Italian tomato.

That is awesome to be served to my non Italian guests and with the mozzarella do a nice salad to it.

But at the end of the day that tomato came from the Xinjiang province that was harvested by modern day slavery circumstances.

So that is something close to my heart especially it relates so close to supply chain and we can do something about that as much as your pitch for helping kids to really be part of the native digital generation.

So no difference there.

Whatever your choice is in this giving season, just go out and do it what you can.

So in this case, either one is great.

No doubt.

Again, I enjoy your work.

I've enjoyed our collaboration with you and Tim and Hope for justice organization, folks.

Check it out.

We'll drop the link right there.

Hopeforjustice.org you'll be blown away with what they do.

And, you know, education is power.

When I first met Tim, one of the powerful lessons I learned when folks think of human slavery, a lot of folks from my experiences think of either that province in China or, you know, diamond mines or lithium mining or different things like that.

Unfortunately, as data shows, it is everywhere.

It is everywhere, including here in the US where it powers an incredibly unsavory economy.

And that's just sad.

A portion of our economy.

So.

And as Will points out, that's right, the chocolate industry has been fighting the chocolates, chocolate trees.

I'm fighting a lot of stuff right now, but great point there, Will.

So here's your opportunity not just to give forward, but get educated.

Because as Korah mentioned, supply chains are in a unique position.

They contribute to it, sadly, but they're also in a unique position to help eradicate it from the face of the world.

So check it out.

Hopeforjustice.org Good stuff there.

All right.

CO RO I love this new venture.

Cozy Advisory.

I think I've got a graphic.

I stole this from your website.

Koze Advisory.

Strategize, prioritize, elevate.

So how can folks connect with you and the great work you're doing out in industry?

Korai so on LinkedIn, I'm pretty active.

Try to be there.

Not 24 7, but if you send anything through LinkedIn, I'll be there to answer.

You can connect through the webpage itself under Contact Us.

Or you just ask good friends of mine like Scott Luton how to get in touch with me if they really can't find me on LinkedIn.

But usually there is a way to get in touch and appreciate again your partnership and a side effect on the educational.

I met Tim Nelson because of you and because of Supply Chain Now.

So if I am at any point in time, you know, related to Hope for Justice, it comes back to Supply Chain now.

So, man.

Well, hey, it is an honor to be a connector, right?

I think all of us, you're much the same.

We're all geared and sometimes you're aware of the connection you're making.

Other times you're just trying to pay it forward and help make connections happen.

But I'll tell you what, I'm a big fan of Hope for justice.

Big fan of Korakoze.

And folks, like I told you, for the three of you out there that don't know Korah, we learned a lot here today.

I really appreciate how he's got his finger on the pulse of what's going on, what leading organizations are doing out there and what, unfortunately, because it's important to examine what the successful organizations are doing as well as examine what the folks that are falling further and further behind are doing.

Right.

So check it out.

Connect.

We dropped Coraz, LinkedIn right here.

One of the best follows or connections you can make on LinkedIn.

If you love all things supply chain, I promise you, check it out there.

And we dropped his website right here, y'all.

Check that out.

David, great to see you.

I'm with you.

I'm partial, but I thoroughly enjoyed the hour here today on the bus.

Thanks for being here already.

Make.

Oh, imagine.

I mean, that was by quick Thanksgiving dinner and the political discussions late at night that were unavoidable to have.

Oh, I'll tell you what.

I'll tell you what.

And folks, there's a whole bunch more if you like.

This hour.

We're dropping a link there.

We can learn a lot more about what supply chain now is up to now and into 2025.

Hard to believe we're there.

Karakoze, my friend, the mover and shaker.

Genuine intelligence for a world that is not very clear right now.

And keep shining that big bright light out there and helping industry move forward.

I really appreciate connecting with you here over the last hour.

It was a pleasure being here, especially after this Thanksgiving weekend with so many news coming down on us.

So appreciate the kind invitation having me.

And as always, I'm an avid follower and fan of your show.

I appreciate that.

And you got the phrase of the day because news does feel like it's coming down on us regularly.

Kind of beats you down.

But if you ignore the noise and you pay attention to the signals, you'll be in a much better shape to take the actions you need to take.

And hopefully we shared a lot of actual insights here today because that's what it's about.

So, folks, your homework is simple.

Take one thing that could ride the truckload of brilliance he brought here today.

Take one thing.

Put it into action.

Right?

Your teams are ready to change how business is done.

Your customers are demanding it.

Your suppliers want a whole bunch more.

But, folks, it's right there within our control to change how supply chain is done.

So all that said, I hope you all have a wonderful wonderful week ahead.

And on behalf of the entire team here at supply chain now, Scott Lun challenging you.

Do good, Give forward, be the change.

We'll see you next time right back here at supply chain now.

Thanks, everybody.

Thanks for being a part of our supply chain now community.

Check out all of our programming@supplychainnow.com and make sure you subscribe.

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See you next time on supply chain now.