Show this and this visually. This is the way we know you

interact with this kind of technology. So

this is something— there's like no roadmap. And that's really,

you know, fascinating from a designer's perspective because we can actually

design things for the first time. Quantum

computing can feel abstract, even intimidating.

But what if the real breakthrough isn't. Just in the physics? It's

in how we interact with it. Welcome to Impact Quantum.

Well, hello and welcome back to Impact Quantum, the podcast we

explore, continuing to explore the emerging field

of quantum technologies. And you don't need to be a PhD

in particle physics. You just need to be a little bit curious.

So with me, as always, is the most quantum curious person I know, Candice

Cahouli. How's it going, Candice? It's great. Thank you so much.

Hello. Hello. Today we have someone really

exciting. We have Clem— I'm going to

mispronounce the name and I apologize— Jankovic.

Yeah, I didn't do that right. But she is the head of design

at Classic. And Clem, can you please pronounce your name properly for us?

Hi, so first of all, thank you for having me. It's very

exciting for me as well. And you said it

nearly, nearly okay, so it's Clem Iankiewicz

with a bit of a Polish accent and the emphasis.

On that middle, some middle syllable, I guess. Yeah,

so awesome. So you are the second person we've had from Classic, and

it's funny because the last time we spoke I learned that it was not

classic, it's Classiq with a Q.

Yes. So

what do you do at Classiq? So I'm the head of

design and

I'm a designer. My background is in, it's actually in industrial

design. And at Classiq, we're making

quantum computing software. So my

role is leading all the design

initiatives for the software. So the user

experience and

the interface design. Which I

think is important because I think, you know, well, one, I have a

lot of questions, but it's important. I've always been a big fan of good user

experience. I think humanity is also a

good fan. If you take a look at Apple's market share, right?

They are kind of a— I don't know if they're the best, but they're held

up certainly in terms of software as the gold

standard, for lack of a better term. But so tell me,

like, who are the users, right? Because that's the first question. Are these

developers? Are they physicists? Are they business analysts? Who is

the primary user of Classiq software?

So of course, the developers, the

physicists, a lot of students, I think in general,

in this industry, a lot of the users are people who are studying

quantum-related fields. But also,

you know, like, we can think about users in terms of business

stakeholders. So I think the kind of entire

quantum industry, and I think everyone needs

a different way. And it's not only classic, I think in general, the

quantum technologies. So we need those, all those different

ways to interact with this technology depending on the user, but also

depending on the use case. And sometimes, or most of the

time maybe, code is the best one. But

I do believe that there's also place for the

interactive and more graphical user interfaces

that I design.

So what inspired you initially to take your industrial

design skills and bring them into the quantum computing

sector? Yeah, so I

would have been working with the quantum industry for over

6 years now. So

in the last 2.5 years, around 2.5

years, a bit more with Classiq. And before that, I

worked with a few different companies and research centers.

And before that, I did a lot of different— I

worked with a lot of different industries, a lot with the culture,

with education. And at a certain point, I was interested

in researching unusual ways we interact

with technology. This was before

I discovered the quantum industry, but it was interesting

in, you know, the interfaces beyond the typical

interface that would, you know, we just like open our phone or

laptop. And I was doing projects with theater, for example,

where the actors would use

some interactive electronic installations I designed, or

I did projects for children. And at a certain

point through those projects, I was invited to CQT,

that's Center for Quantum Technologies at the University,

National University of Singapore. I was invited there

because of those interests to work on a game,

computer game about quantum physics.

And I, you know, I had no knowledge about the quantum industry

and quantum physics before that. And

I went there. We were a group with, there were a few

physicists, software developers, and

I joined from the design side. And then I

discovered, wow, this is the most interesting

industry I've seen, and it's something that I want to

continue working with. And yeah,

so that's how it started. And yeah, and

definitely I love this industry since then.

I'm going to be able to— that proves our thesis that we had, like, you

know, you're going to need marketers, you're going to need designers, industrial designers, right?

This is going to be an ecosystem that is that is being

built, right? And, you know, not every— if you take a

look at, you know, let's pick on NVIDIA, right? Because

they're a $5 trillion company, right? Not everyone there is a

gamer. Not everyone there is a chip

designer, right? You need an entire ecosystem. And I think that's really

where the majority of the opportunity is for

everyone, right? Like, you know, what was your first reaction when they asked

you to write a quantum, you know, go to the Quantum Institute? Like, you were

like, what's this quantum stuff? Like, I'm just curious, like, what was your first thought

that ran through your mind? Oh, to be honest, you know, I

thought it's going to look so funny on my resume.

I didn't think of it, you know, as a career or

more as like, you know, a very interesting project that

I'll do. And, you know, and it's going to Singapore

and working with scientists. So I thought it's like, oh, it's going

to be really fun and something to try. But I

didn't, I I definitely didn't think that it would become a

career, and that's something that I discovered there. I just thought

it was just so fascinating. Very cool.

So you've actually— I'm sorry, go ahead, Karen. No, no, no, go ahead, Frank, go

ahead. So you've, looking at your LinkedIn,

you've worked at more than one quantum firm. So

clearly, like, this isn't just a one-off. This is a,

it seems like that And, you know, whatever that first

gig was, like, really did change the direction of your career.

Oh, definitely, definitely. And

so it started like after CDQT because it was

just a few months long project. Me and the

physicist who actually brought me to this project, Piotr

Migdał, we decided to keep working on this and

we turned this game about quantum

physics into a virtual lab,

virtual quantum lab with visualization and

simulation of quantum physics.

And we've been working on this for a few

years, and it's actually still being used like

on a lot of universities. A lot of

educators are still using this

tool, it's called Quantum Flytrap. Anyone can use it

online for free. And then we

did a project with our team for Pascal, so

the French quantum computing company.

Also, we built a visual interactive interface

for their technology. And then I worked

for a while on a project with Xanadu with Penny Lane team.

And then I, I started working with,

with CLASSIQ. So, yeah, so there have been

already a few, a few quantum-related

places that I managed to, to work with.

Okay. So you mentioned, so you mentioned the virtual labs. Do you also

work now in real-world lab experiences?

Or is it all virtual lab?

So what I'm doing, it's much more relevant for the virtual

experience. I would love to do something with

hardware related because maybe because of my

industrial design background, that's something that's, you know, I

really love the hardware part, but I feel that

my experience is just much more relevant

for the software part. Of the quantum

computing stack. Although, who knows?

Maybe, yeah, maybe in the future.

Interesting.

What was the biggest thing that surprised you in terms of industrial design or

graphic design or about quantum computing? Like, what was the concept that—

obviously you like it, right? So obviously,

what fascinated you the most, really? Like, what made you think, wow, This is

cool. Yeah. So, I mean, on the one

hand, it just, you know, not

even in

regardless of design, it's just quantum physics and

quantum computing. I think it's fascinating and just really for me, it's

really fun to work in an industry that I can

keep learning. And that's just really interesting. But

from the design perspective, The fact that

we're dealing with things that are so unintuitive many

ways, and we don't have this one way that, you know, we know this

is how we show this and this visually. This

is the way we know you interact with this

kind of technology. So this is something, there's like no roadmap.

And that's really, you know, fascinating from a designer's perspective,

because we can actually design things for the first time.

And this is something that nearly doesn't happen. I mean, there are nearly

no chances to work on something that really no

one yet worked on, on the kind of

interfaces that are in a technology in general that

really is innovative. So this is,

you know, from the design perspective, is just fascinating.

And yeah, so I'm very happy to have

a privilege to be part of this. So how

do you define success for the user experience

in a virtual lab environment?

So do you mean virtual lab is the project that I mentioned that we did?

Right. Yeah. Oh, so in that project,

it's, I think, because we didn't monetize it and it's, you know, it's open

to everyone. So there was no part on

like this typical commercial part,

but I think the success is that it's still being used. And it's, you know,

it's being used at the top universities like Stanford or Oxford.

I know they're using it at NYU during their

summer internship program at the

Physics Institute. And

one of the professors from NYU just published an

introductory book to quantum computing that I know that he's using

our lab there as well. So I

think, you know, the fact that users are actually using it,

this is definitely a success

with this project. And from the beginning, we were developing this

project with the users. So a lot of features there, a lot of

functionalities were developed because

someone asked us for this. Someone would, you know, email us

and say, listen, like, I really want to use it with my students, but I

really want to show them this in this experiment. Can you add this

functionality? And we would be like, oh, actually, it's something we can do.

So this is something that I actually really like about this project. And

I think it's not always that easy to capture, even for, you

know, much bigger companies with large budgets, to

be so close with the users and to actually make something that people are

using. Because, you know, we never had any marketing, and especially now that

we don't actively work on this project anymore, and it's still just

living its own life and people are still using it. And I know a lot

of students, a lot a lot of physics students are

using this. Interesting.

I was at some physics conference a while

ago and I was presenting some

things we do at Classiq and I

met a physics professor from

one of the universities in Europe and

we spoke and I told him what I do and what we do at Classiq.

And he told me like, listen, you need to see this project. I'm using it

a lot with my students. And then he told me about

Quantum Flytrap. So the virtual lab that

I designed, the project

that came out of CQT. So I think

this is the success that someone tells me

about the project I did that, oh, you need to see it. It'll be very

interesting for you. Yeah, so I think this is

definitely the success. The success here

is the users that are still using it and liking it and

still helps them. That's really cool. Like,

and people know you for that. And I would imagine people are still coming up

to you. That's really, that's a cool feeling.

Yeah. What's the one thing you wish people understood more?

About your industry? The industry

as the quantum technology

design? The design. Can you, can it be the design aspect

within quantum? Oh yeah.

You know, I think so. My perspective on

why I think it's important what I do

or why this design perspective in quantum is important,

and I do think a lot of people understand it, but maybe not everyone.

So So I see user interfaces,

any kind of user interfaces, as those different

doors we have to the technology.

So, you know, we have typical code interfaces, voice interfaces,

the graphical interactive interfaces. So all different

ways to interact with this technology. And all those different

doors that we open, they suit different people or

different use cases. And the choice

of what kind of interface we provide for this technology

and how we design this interface is actually a choice of who can

participate in this technology and how and to do

what. And I really do believe that there is

a place for those graphical interactive

interfaces, not, you know, instead of

code, of course, like, you know, code will always be probably

the main interface for quantum industries, but I I think there is

a lot of users, there's a lot of use cases when the different

types of interfaces are very important. And

especially if we talk about, you know, broader

participation about technology that can affect everyone's lives,

I think there's a lot of value in it. And it's not just,

you know, sometimes I think design is perceived as making something,

you know, not like pretty or nicer. And I think there is much more to

it. And it's actually opening this technology to,

to different users and for a

broader participation.

Okay, interesting. When you first begin a new

project, what are the first

decisions, design decisions you typically lock into?

So it really depends on the project, but usually,

you know, it always starts with a lot of people

together. So it's never me or,

you know, designers. We don't design it in, you know, just

like we're not closing ourselves and design

it by ourselves. It's always a lot of brainstorming.

You know, it would be like software developers, physicists,

product managers. So there's a lot of people with those different

perspectives that we work together. And

usually, yeah, it just starts with brainstorming and with some

very, you know, broad concepts,

like, you know, like first ideas. And then I try to sketch them very fast

because it's always easier to talk about things when you see them visually.

And then, you know, I would show this to the team and then we can

talk about it again. And see what should be

changed, what direction to take. So it's— there's a lot of

iterations and definitely there's a

lot of people involved.

So have there been any like user behaviors that have surprised you

when you've been running one of these

simulations? Has there ever been anything that's really just kind of surprised you and made

you rethink? You know, what, how you were going about

it? During the design process

with the team, right? So for

example, I remember when I was working

with Penny Lane for a few months

on a project. So I was working there mostly

with their algorithms team where everyone, they

were all physicists. And it was really

interesting because, you know, they— I was trying to understand

those specific, some specific topics they were telling

me about that I had to then find a way to visualize it and to

think, you know, how do we show it in a visual way?

So, you know, they will try to describe this to me and they—

then I would make the drawings and then

I would show it to them and they, I remember a few times, like

they would be like, oh, actually when I see it now,

drone, like I actually think that it should be different. So I

felt like it was very surprising for me because I felt like it's kind of

we're making this new language to describe

something because there is this mathematical language and this is just the one way

to, it's a great way, of course, it's the best way to describe the

quantum phenomena. But when you need to find a different— build

a different language to describe this, suddenly you need

to think about it in a different way. So I at least hope that

sometimes this— it's also beneficial

for the other side, for the

physicists to work, for example, with designers where

it's— yeah, you need to look at the the problem from a

different perspective.

Interesting. I mean, that makes a lot of sense.

So what do you consider right now to be your top

professional achievement to date?

Oh, that's a, that's a good question.

I think the fact that, you know, I can

work like that all those years, I keep working

with the industry and I'm

working on tools, you know, I'm working with the most talented,

amazing people and that we're working

on tools for this new technology

and people are actually using it and

it's like, it feels like an actual real impact.

Where I have this, my, you know, tiny part, but I do feel

this impact. And of course, it's

still the beginning. But yeah, I'm

very happy about it. And I'm very happy that, you know, I feel

like I can contribute something meaningful to the

industry. So that's as a non-physicist,

that's not a scientist, I feel very

lucky about it. That's a good point you bring up because I would imagine

that physicists are kind of the top dog. Physicists are the top dogs in this

field, right? What's it like being a non-physicist

in a physics-heavy industry?

So I actually really love working with physicists, and I

think that's one of the things I discovered at CQT

and probably with scientists in general. And

maybe it's a bit that, you know,

when I was a small child, I always loved

math and drawing. And sometimes

we say that, you know, whatever we liked as children, it's what

we keep liking for, you know,

forever. So sometimes I feel it's like I chose

this creative direction for my life, but maybe this gives

me back a bit of, you know, I'm a bit

closer to science and to math that I always liked

as well. Yeah, but I really like

it. And, you know, probably the physicists

that I meet and I work with are the ones that also like to

work with non-physicists and with, you know, with the creative

people from the creative industry and creative side.

But I feel that, you know, like the people that I've

learned so much from, and

it's just very interesting. Yeah.

Very cool. Now, I often wonder, like, what's that like?

You know, because I think in a few years, a lot of people are going

to be entering the quantum field, so

to speak, and I was just wondering what kind of like

what's it like in terms of how folks are

reacting? And, you know, because I would imagine that this was a very

quiet field, you know, 5, 10 years ago. Now

suddenly venture fund money starting to flow, there's going to be a lot more

people showing up who are not physicists. And I

was just wondering what the culture is like. Has the culture kind of in the

quantum space changed any? Since

you joined, since you started doing this work?

I mean, so I think I feel that the quantum

industry is very welcoming

and it's like a nice industry. People are nice

and at least comparing with maybe some other

tech industries. But I do feel there is a change

that it It's like, it feels more real.

And with this, like, more real, as in, you know, it's

getting closer and closer. Like, it's more in the market,

it's more professional, maybe. So probably

it might be that, you know, there will be less place for,

you know, just creative projects and everything

will be more focused on the users and clients

and the market. So, but it's good, right?

Like, I mean, the development is amazing and

that's good. But I definitely can see, you know, even when I joined

like those 6 years ago, it was still,

I feel it was still a very different time. Right. I

mean, 6 years ago, you weren't really, you weren't hearing about

AI on the news constantly. And you certainly

weren't hearing about quantum, right? So everyone must have thought, what is she

actually working on? And not understanding it

at all, because unless you're like within certain

circles, right? Yeah, I think, I think 6 years ago

it was still like, you know, saying that, you know, I'm going to Hogwarts

or something like this. And right now, and you mentioned

AI, and I think there's a lot of, a lot of hype about quantum,

right? It's based on AI. So it feels like, oh, maybe we missed the

AI a bit, but then like we can't miss the next

the next train, which will be quantum. But it definitely feels

like something much more real.

So how do you, how do you yourself keep updated? I mean,

you're, you're on the cusp of emerging tech, but you

still want to keep up to date on

other emerging trends. So how do you keep updated

on what's going on in the industry?

So with the quantum industry, to be honest, it's mostly that

first of all, I work within the industry. So

there's a lot that I hear from my colleagues, you know,

conferences and the company,

LinkedIn. I think that's probably newswise

from the quantum side. That's probably my main

source. Um, yeah, and, and, you know, like,

whenever there is an interesting, uh, link, then

to read something more. I don't know if I'm that updated,

but, uh, probably a bit

enough for the design part, at least.

So is there something that you're currently working on that you can

speak about that you're excited that's really excited about,

or can you talk about it in a particularly

vague way? So

there is, for example, a project we released recently

at Classic. It's interactive visualization.

It's something I actually presented at

last year at the APS Global

Summit. So we have

in our software, so the, in

our software, users can write algorithms

in this high-level language we call QMod.

And then there is a compiler that takes this high-level

algorithm and produces this

gate-level quantum circuit that can be

also optimized for different hardware. Different

preferences, constraints, depending on whatever the

user wants. Then we made this visualization tool

that takes both this algorithm, the intent of the

algorithm, and the gate-level implementation

and showcases it in an

interactive way. Users can vary

in a very intuitive way. Even with the huge

algorithms, they can

see the different parts, they can debug easier, but they can

also use it

for presentations, for conveying

whatever they were working on for easier collaboration.

And then from there, of course, it can be also executed on different

simulators or hardware. But

it's really interesting because we're basing this on the

visualizations of quantum circuits. So there

are, you know, both what you see in papers, but also there

are like a number of interactive tools. But I think we added there

a few different features that make it, first of all,

very, very useful for large circuits and large

algorithms. And the number

of qubits wouldn't even matter that much, at

least in just, you know, visualization-wise.

And I think it's something that is very exciting for me because I

think it has a lot of value and it

kind of has this, you know, I feel like we're

looking to the future a bit where at certain point

we will be talking about much larger algorithms and

much more qubits to be used.

So it's something that it's already released, but we're constantly working on

this and we're adding more and more features.

That makes a lot of sense. Okay.

How do you mentor or support others

who are entering your field? Do you— have

you been a mentor? Have you been affected by having a great

mentor?

So first of all, there are just so many people, of course, of course,

that I've met and I've worked with that

helped me enter this field and

then to understand this field. Because when you enter

this field without any prior knowledge, it can feel a

bit intimidating. And I think that's something that a lot of people

feel. And I found that

people were actually really welcoming and really wanted to share

their knowledge. So I think especially all the physicists that

I've met and I've worked with along the way, That's something

at some points I felt that, you know, it's this

amazing situation where I have all those,

you know, people who are experts in quantum physics and

they are teaching me this and it's part of my job. I'm getting

paid for this. So I feel like that's, you know, that's a dream job.

And but I do also have, you know, like people sometimes

asking me, people who want to enter this field, or,

you know, maybe someone who's working with me and they're just starting. So,

so it's— I always try to, to help them because I

feel like, you know, I understand that it can be intimidating to be a

non-physicist in, in this field. And also I

feel like physicists sometimes forget that not

everyone knows this very specific language

they use to describe quantum physics. So I feel I

still remember a bit better that, you know, not everyone knows what

superposition. Yeah. So, so,

so, so that's— yeah, definitely really like to

talk with anyone who, who needs

help or has questions. What would be your advice to

someone who is looking at this field,

whether they're an industrial designer like you, uh, or a

marketer, uh, or just a developer, right? Like,

or, you know, what— or even salespeople,

like, what would be your advice, right? Because you did bring up some interesting things,

right? So like, what would be your advice? Are there any books that you could

read or any webinars or anything like that to kind of get familiar with this

space? So I think if this is a more

technical person, especially for, you know, like from the software development

side, there's a lot of hackathons. There's a lot of

courses. There are, you know, a lot of great resources.

So I think it's definitely good to start there also because many times

the companies are maybe sponsoring part of the

hackathon. Maybe they're doing some challenges. So you also have a,

you have an opportunity to meet people from this company.

But also in general to reach out to people, I think Again, I think

it's still a very friendly industry and it's quite a small industry.

So I think people are very, very open usually.

It's definitely good to, you know, there's, I think right now

there's quite a lot of introductory books

and, you know, podcasts,

videos. Pennylane, you

know, they have so many amazing resources.

Qiskit, of course. Classic as

well. So I think it's

just good to, you know, just start by watching different things.

And it's also— it's not an industry for everyone, I think. So

it's— if someone feels it's interesting, then I think there's more and

more resources to

find. It's a good way to put it. That's a good way

to put it. Where do you think

the quantum industry is going to go? I mean, I think it's nowhere to

go but up, really. What are your thoughts on that?

Well, I'm definitely hoping for that.

Yeah, I feel, you know,

I think there is a lot of funding now and

there's a lot of of amazing people working on this.

So I do feel, and there's a lot of development, constant development.

So I think at this point, everyone kind of

believes that it's just a matter of

time. So yeah, so definitely,

definitely, I cross my fingers for the quantum

industry. That's a good way to put it.

What?

I totally lost my train of thought. Candace, I'm sorry. Go ahead. That's okay. So

if you could go back to the beginning of your career,

what advice would you give yourself knowing what you know

now? You know,

so one thing that I like about my career,

and maybe it's not for everyone, but I feel

like I always followed what was interesting for me.

And that's not always maybe, you know, best

for, you know, if you're very like career-driven and you

want to, you know, immediately go to, you know, the best, I don't

know, best-paying jobs. Or I

think, you know, I made all sorts of decisions that

weren't, you know, I would change my career suddenly.

I would look for different things that were just at the moment really interesting.

But for me, it really worked. And for me, it's something that in the end

means that I can work on the projects that I'm

personally really interested in and I find fascinating.

So I don't think it's good advice for everyone

because it might take time. It also might mean that you're

not finding what you're looking for. But

for me, it's something that I'm really happy about.

You know, I have a 9-year-old daughter and I really want for her

to, to be curious and to look for things in life that are interesting

for her. And I think, you know, obviously she'll

choose whatever she wants, but I would like this for her

more than, you know, just going, you know, having this very

straightforward path, career path. And

I find it more valuable.

And also, I think it's important today to be able to change

industries and to, you know, kind of start

over and to start in a new industry.

I think that's something valuable, and I think it's something that we'll need more and

more because there are just, you know, the changes are so fast now.

That's a great way to put it because the amount of change that we're seeing

just in my own career, right? And, you know, I mean, I

guess I'm old, but I'm not that old. But I mean, I started writing,

you know,

Visual Basic applications on Wall Street, right? And these were

like for, you know, Windows 3.1 or, you know, or NT. And

like, I think about what I do now is just so radically different than what

I anticipated I would be doing when I was in university.

You know, I don't want to speak for Candace, but I would imagine that quantum,

you know, working on quantum computing, you know, podcasts is probably

not, it's probably not on your radar. Although your

dad was working in quantum physics and you probably,

I know like her dad was a big shot. She'll be modest, but he was

a big shot researcher at IBM back in the day

doing a lot of this kind of early work. And, you know, I mean,

I mean, who would have thought, like, you know, you know, you would—

it would come— it would become a family business, so to speak.

It's true. I mean, it was in the '70s and talking about, you know,

quantum algorithms. And I was the kid that went to school and had no idea

what her dad did for a living. And I couldn't even, like, remotely

explain it. But, you know, I was thinking about— you

mentioned— you mentioned curiosity. You mentioned flexibility

and adaptability. As things that you, you

really value in a skill set. Are there other

skills that you found that have been critical

to, critical to your success?

Definitely the ability to work with, with people and

with people from different industries, to listen to

people. You know, it may be like, sounds

obvious, but I don't think it is for everyone.

And, you know, I never feel that I

have like this ownership even over the design

part of the project because many times the ideas come from the

non-designers or many times my ideas, you know, I think

it's a great idea, but then others don't think so. And that's

okay. And I think this is really important. And

to do a good project, it's always teamwork. And I

really love working in teams where we all come with a very different

background. I think I think this is what makes for

interesting projects. Yeah,

and you see a lot more of that. It used to be like, you know,

you would have kind of like one industry, one this, one that. But over

the last probably two decades or so,

like, you know, it becomes like, you know, you have people

who work in a chemistry company, right? They're doing AI, right? Well, what are they

doing AI for, right? There's, you know, research, there's

marketing, there's, you know, kind of like it's all these different

I think the idea of being in one discipline and kind of just

staying in that discipline for the rest of your working career

is, um, is going to be

looked back as a very quaint notion of, you know, the 20th century.

I think it's even hard to do this anymore.

It's really— it would be really tough. Like, and I know people that have kind

of found that kind of like little groove and stayed in But there's really

no growth there. And the ones that did stay there,

there are very larger reasons why they

can't afford to stay there. Not all of that is entirely

lack of will. It's just kind of like there's no

incentive to change. And hey, man, if you can make it work for you, go

for it. But I don't think that would work for me. My

attention span is too short.

Yeah, no, definitely. I mean,

I love working with non-designers and, and

it, I feel it. I mean, I also love working with designers, right?

But yeah, throughout my career, I think

I always really like working with, you know, the domain experts

or people that are experts in something very different. For

example, with Classic on the project that I told you about the

visualization. So we were, you know, like this

core team that at the beginning we were working

on the whole idea of this. And then of course there was a lot of

people involved and all the amazing software engineers and

so on. But at the beginning, a lot of work was, for example, with

a person who's

a language designer. And this was really interesting for me

because we needed to find this visual

representation for the language, the

programming language that he was designing.

So it's really interesting and it's something that, you know, like I would

never have this perspective or this knowledge to,

you know, to be able to do this. So I think this is those,

all those complementary skills and

all the different experiences that we have.

I think that's when it's combined, that's when the interesting things

happen. That's a good way to put it. I think

that we live in a very— actually, tell

me more about this language designer, right? So, like, I mean, you did say

computer programming language, but not necessarily human

language. So, what does that look like? And, like, how does that— because I would

imagine that there's probably significant overlap with industrial design with that.

Or maybe there isn't, I don't know. So I

don't know if I have much to say about his work. It's

probably maybe you can invite him. But

so this is the person, the main person behind the, again,

obviously it's teamwork, but the

person behind the programming

language that we're developing at Classic.

So, and he's an expert in this. This is something that he did

before as well. So this is from my design perspective that was

really interesting because we suddenly had to find

a way to visualize certain things that

they designed in code

for this different kind of interface. Yeah.

Interesting. No, it's all very fascinating. Like, all this stuff is just—

there's just so much going on. It's, it's, it's

kind of in some ways very frustrating, but in some ways very

cool. I don't know, maybe I'm not explaining. It right, but

I mean, we learn new things with every interview that we do, and then

when we think we are understanding something, then something else just

kind of opens it up completely, and then you realize No, I

didn't quite understand that quite yet. There's more to learn. There's more to

grasp, right? I mean, when you have to— I usually

ask this obviously earlier in the interview, but because you're involved,

although you're involved in the design in quantum

computing, quantum computing is just—

a lot of people still can't wrap their minds around it.

So like, how do you explain what you do?

Within the sector of quantum computing to, for

example, a completely non-technical individual?

That's a great question. That's a good question. And

I'm working on this for, for the last 6 years, and

I don't know if I'm getting any better, but

sometimes I lose people when I say quantum computing and that's it.

They're like, okay, That's enough.

Yeah, but I'm saying that I'm working on the

graphical user interfaces for

quantum computing, which is this new developing field.

And I'm working a lot with scientists.

And yeah, and we're working on something that is different and it's

a way to interact with this totally new, weird

technology that isn't always intuitive, and we try to make it more

intuitive.

That's perfect. Good way to put it. That's a good way to put it. I

think also an excellent place to end the show because I want to be respectful

of your time, and I know it's late where you are. Where

could folks find out more about you and about Classique?

I did it again, Candice. I know. It's the Q. It's the Q.

You want it to be special. So she lives in Montreal and

half my family is from Montreal. So like I see

the IQ ending and immediately like the Francophone

inside my head goes off. Like, yeah, exactly. That circuit fires

and it's like classic. So Classic,

where can folks find out more about you and Classic?

Yeah, so Classic, I guess the website would be the

best place and you know, the social media

profiles. People at Classiq are very

friendly, so it's always good to reach out as well.

And, you know, if someone wants to reach out to me, I love

this as well. And I guess LinkedIn is usually

the best way to

be in touch. Excellent.

Podcast,

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