Hello, everyone.
Before we jump into this episode, a short introduction.
So I'm interviewing Samantha again and she came from non
Anabaptist background and for myself, I grew up in the Mennonite church,
so this is going to be a slightly different episode,
maybe a little more lighthearted about some of the cultural challenges
coming from the outside into the Anabaptist
world and things that, you know, maybe I would have grown up with that
you just don't think about because this is how I've always done it.
So yeah, slightly different episode, but I think it'll be very interesting
and very valuable to try to identify what some of those, I don't know
if you want to call them blind spots, but those parts of our cultures that
sometimes we don't always see because it's what we're so used to.
So a little bit of context before we jump in
and hopefully you'll enjoy this episode.
So. Samantha, welcome back to the Anabaptist Perspectives podcast.
Good to have you on again.
So this will be the third episode we've done with you.
And for those listening, if they haven't seen the others,
they should go check this out first, because
that might give a little bit of context for what we're doing here today.
But you and I were emailing before hand
and trying to figure out like, okay, how do we want to frame this episode?
And you came back with a really good
chunk in an email and actually just saved it and put it in my script
because it was just really good, and you were saying
some of the challenges,
or challenges or just interesting quirks that Mennonite culture has.
So I don't have a typical script like I normally do.
I think it’d
just be fun to jump into what some of those are and we’ll bounce off
of what you had sent in that email and and see where we end up.
So as someone who came from not growing up in the Anabaptist world
or the Mennonite church or however you want to say it,
and seen some of these
things from the outside, be really interesting to hear what you have.
So what are some of the quirks you noticed?
And yeah, let's just jump in, see what we find.
Okay, well.
Disclaimer this isn't to make fun of people.
We're not laughing at people because there's things that
I've mentioned to people and they'll laugh with me like, I didn't know we did that.
Like we just We just do it.
So this isn't really even
talking about theological things.
It's just like, yeah, just cultural quirks or things that we do.
So just, yeah, things that as a seeker coming in, it's like oh,
I didn't know you guys did that. Like, that’s kinda weird.
That's a surprise!
So I guess I was going to open with something that I’ve actually seen
on Facebook from a lady, and she was a Anabaptist writer
and she was just kind of going on about Amish Novels. And she
was like, You know what?
And not all Mennonite girls can identify with this, but I can.
But for those of us who, like, do our hair up a certain way,
or if we have a lot of it, like your bun can get pretty big.
And so she was like, you know what?
I don't think these Amish novels are accurate at all.
She's like, I have never read one where the Amish girl, or
the mennonite girl, whatever, smashes her bun against the wall to make it flatter.
She's like, It's just not accurate.
It's like, yes.
That made me laugh so much.
Because it’s like
there’s a lot of us that do that.
Just random stuff like that.
It's like, you start going to Bible school or things.
And You get out and you just, like, start seeing things and it's like, what?
like, it’s just funny.
Even just. Yeah.
Something that really sticks out to me
as being kind of quirky just because.
Anabaptists, not even so much because they're Anabaptist more
because they're Germanic background people.
We tend to be, I would be Germanic background too,
but like anabaptist people tend to be more mellow, like our worship
services are more reverent, more chill, not very emotional or expressive.
And some people fault us for that.
But that's just who we are as a people.
So it just really tickles me that.
I have never been in a mennonite choir
where we didn't sing some kind
of southern like, folk song.
Or some kind of upbeat, like in african, or
Swahili, that’s the word I want.
Yes, some kind of Swahili song.
Why Is that?
I've sung in a lot of mennonite choirs back in the day
with Bible schools and stuff that is totally true.
And we love it.
We’re like yes, we get to sing an African song.
But why?
I don't know.
The only thing I can figure is like, this is where we get emotional expression.
We get to, like, jam out with these african songs.
It just cracks me up.
That's just kind of, there's nothing wrong with it, obviously.
It's just kind of quirky, kind of bizarre.
I don't know. Yeah. Yeah.
We definitely sang Swahili songs and stuff when I was in.
Yeah.
Because if you actually stop and think about how obscure that is,
actually, I think that was some of the language
you used in your email is like, this is like kind of odd and very obscure.
Like, why do we do this?
I don't really know,
but it's just kind of part of the cultural expression, I suppose.
I mean, and I think that would be more Mennonite,
than some other more conservative circles of anabaptist because,
like, your more Amish
choirs and things would do more like, more you’re typical hymns and stuff.
But your mennonite choirs like African music
and they are so fun to sing and typically audiences love it.
And even
I just had to think about like our friend who was in a choir that got together
a couple of times, toured around and they sang almost strictly Moses Hogan,
like just all these like Southern folk songs and spirituals.
And I mean, they were good at it.
They had that southern slang, it just was so fun.
That's
really interesting, That is really random.
yeah.
Wow. Now, I feel like I should ask some people, like, where does that come from?
Because that's totally a thing.
And I can see how like growing up in it, it literally never,
ever crossed my mind until I got your email last week
and you were like, Hey, have you thought about this?
And just never crossed my mind.
But you, having not necessarily grown up with that initially,
I can see how that would just be like, That's kind of odd, right?
You know, what's what's some others that, you know, some other things?
Well, some of them are just funny stories.
Well, actually, one I thought about along the lines of music
and this isn't across the board, but there are a fair number of,
and I'm speaking more from Mennonite circles because that's my experience.
But there are a fair
amount of Mennonites who play accordions and harmonicas,
And that was super random to me the first time I saw it.
Like, all these people know how to play the accordion.
And I’m like, what is with the accordion?
I get the piano and the guitar, especially the guitar and the harmonica.
Cause like, they're portable, it's great.
But how did the accordion become a thing?
Yeah, okay, so somebody listening to this knows, like,
leave a comment down there because again, I never thought about this
til I got your email and you said it in here somewhere.
You call it Mennonite Quirks and Little Known Tidbits.
I think it was.
And yeah, and you mentioned the accordion and I had again, never thought of that.
But as soon as you said it like, that really resonates, that's totally a thing.
So where does it come from, somebody, somebody comment because we don't know.
But, but I think it comes from, you know, you just have
like our groups, our churches, you know, we've been together for a while
and you have these little
this whole network of of churches and kind of develop these interesting
trends and ideas, I don't know over that just kind of happens, I guess.
I mean I guess the accordion would also be somewhat Germanic.
So maybe it just came over and stayed?
So that's an interesting point that you've made about the Germanic influence side.
I mentioned this on some other podcast, but I was in Germany, southern Germany,
which is where my ancestors would have come from actually back in the day,
and it felt like I was at home, like, I don't know, German,
I can't speak the language or anything, but like the culture was so similar
to my experience as a mennonite that it actually really shocked me.
I was really surprised.
The food, the way people acted, the way stores were,
the way people interacted on the street, like it was so familiar.
And both my wife and I were like, I mean, we could live here.
This feels great, you know?
And we couldn't speak their language, neither of us. And
it made me really appreciate that.
There's a lot of culture that comes from the fact that our people originally
were immigrants, again, my stripe of Mennonites at least.
Were immigrants that came over fleeing persecution or whatever in the 1700s.
And that cultural influences stayed with us.
And so is this Germanic flavor, this very German, maybe some Swiss Austrian.
Yeah, that sector of of Europe is still very, very strong in our circles,
which is kind of.
Nothing wrong. With that.
It's a beautiful thing. But it's interesting.
Which explains the other thing that I thought about.
Just as you were talking like talking about the Swiss.
Because another thing that I’ve
seen a fair amount, and I enjoy it, but it’s also just super funny of how,
we have so many mennonites who know how to yodel.
That is super random.
No kidding. Yeah.
But the Swiss influence would make sense for that.
That's a really good point.
Why else would you?
Yeah. See, and this is where I can see,
you know, someone again coming from the outside.
And in the last episode we did
was kind of this idea of seekers, like those who want to join
a mennonite church or an Anabaptist minded church or something,
and some of the cultural hurdles, I guess I don't know
if that may be too strong, but some of these things
I could see coming in, I'd be like, These people are just different.
I don't know how I fit in.
And did you ever feel that where it's like this is just different enough?
I'm not sure I can fit into this?
Or was it never anything quite that extreme?
Maybe in certain communities, but not across the board.
Okay. And some of these things, like yodeling.
It’s not like we get together as groups and
there's just these random people who are really
good at it. And I know a number of people who do it.
They just enjoy doing it, and we enjoy listening.
But yeah, it’s
just one of those random things, why do you yodel?
I never thought of that.
That is so good that's so, yeah.
Again kind of bizarre kind of quirky, you know like interesting.
Okay Yeah. What's, what's a few others?
Yeah, I guess it isn't so much quirks,
but it kind of comes back to the integration thing.
I just thought of some funny stories and I asked my sister for permission
to share this one.
But when we were in that community with the rather conservative church
with like, I don't know if you call them black bumper,
but like where they were all black cars and like really conservative.
So she had gone to church by herself one day
and she had made a dress to match them.
And but it was like a bright green.
And so she goes to service and here it's communion Sunday.
And everybody was in black, black
across the board, and she's in this bright green dress.
And so she stayed.
But it was really awkward.
So it's one of those things I had to think about even for
yeah, for our church when we
would do VBS, like we did it for years and we just all had our rhythm.
We knew what we were doing and then we had someone come in to help one time
and we put them in charge of a group because they were willing to do that.
And at the end when we were debriefing, he was like, okay,
So I figured it out on the fly, but I had no idea what I was doing.
You just handed me a folder and then expected me to just make it work.
And we were all like, we are so sorry.
Yeah.
We’re all just used to knowing what to do.
And we didn’t stop to think, the newcomer doesn’t get it.
So yeah, that's kind of a give and take on both sides.
Like Mennonite people, anabaptist people.
It would be good for us to try and be more aware
of the things that the new person isn't going to just know
and then the new person needs to be okay
with maybe feeling a little foolish sometimes because they didn't know,
because the lack of telling them isn't intentional.
It's just when something is a part of your life, it's not.
You don't think about it being different, and so you don't always remember
to communicate those things.
So yeah, it's
kind of a give and take on both sides.
Yeah.
This kind of graciousness, I guess, is the word that came to mind.
I guess that's the right word. Yeah, just.
But isn't that what would happen with trying to join
essentially any group that's been together for a long period of time?
Because the mennonites have been around a while.
Like, you know, we kind of have just developed a way of doing life
right, wrong, indifferent, whatever.
It's just kind of just this is a culture.
Yeah, I don't know.
It's kind of like whenever I do a lot of traveling internationally
and it's really fun because every place I go,
they just do things a little bit differently
and I find it really neat and kind of interesting,
but it makes me kind of appreciate all the different church cultures
that are out there, not just within the Mennonites,
but you would have that in,
you know, different forms of the Protestants
and the evangelicals and the Orthodox groups,
and the whatever, take your pick, they all have these interesting ways
they developed over the years of doing life, doing church.
I don't see those things as
wrong, you know, Of course, they just kind of are, I suppose.
But it makes it,
yeah, a little interesting for people joining, you know, from the outside.
Yeah.
Grace is a good word to use because another story I thought of
and this one I had to laugh at myself, which is also a very valuable character
trait to have when you're coming into, like you said, any cultural setting.
But we're talking about like coming into Anabaptist churches
where you're the odd man out and that's okay.
But there was one time same church because I think of that one
because that was the most drastic church setting
that I've experienced as far as like really conservative.
But we were at someone's house for lunch and I was visiting
with all the little children and they spoke Dutch.
I mean, the children spoke
English and Dutch, but like at that church they would have predominantly spoke
Dutch or German, however you would say it.
And I was sitting with them and they're like,
we want to teach you how to say colors.
I was like, okay, sure.
And so they started teaching me some things.
Then we got to yellow and they said lelow.
And so I said it and it just peels of giggles.
And I was like, well I must not have said it right.
And so they're like, try again.
So I said, lelow. And they just laughed and laughed.
I'm like, All right, you guys like, What am I doing wrong?
And they're like, It’s yellow. We told you to say it wrong.
Bunch of little kids.
And like, you can take that really bad and be like, that was so mean.
But I’m like, ok, like...
So you really got to learn to laugh
at yourself.
Like, don't take it too seriously when you don’t always get it, it's okay.
And even just another one I thought about that I've heard seekers
talk about before. Is...
we'll just say mennonites for the sake of simplicity.
But we have memorized a lot of songs, a lot of choruses,
simple songs that we’ll sing,
you know, at the end of service or at communion
or I'm thinking specifically like fellowship meals.
There's like three different chorus songs that are sung at fellowship meals often.
And so as you're coming in as a seeker, it's like, okay, everybody's
breaking out in song and I don't know this, so, I'm just going to, you know.
Try to mouth it or awkwardly stand in the corner and it's like,
you know, it's okay.
They grew up singing these songs and it took me
a little while to learn them because if you don't hear them often,
but you can learn them.
And so,
yeah, just the thing of not taking yourself too
seriously and just being real self-conscious
and uptight, like, I just don't fit in and I just don't get it.
I mean, you can ask someone for help.
You could have them like, can you write out the words for me
so I can at least know the words and then learn the tune.
Like if you want to quotes fit in.
Like if you want to be involved,
take steps to learn and give yourself time to learn.
Like nobody's laughing at you because you don't know
Because they know you don't know and it's okay.
But yeah, that was definitely one I thought about
because even when we get together for small groups
we’ll often have a chorus book that has no sheet music with it.
It's just the words
and people just know the music from it being passed down and just from memory.
And so you have to give yourself time
to learn those things without being all self-conscious about it.
And just like, you know, they're so different than me.
So I think our perspective
really helps a lot with that and just being willing to ask for help.
There's
as you're saying that I immediately thought of an essay that C.S.
Lewis wrote called the,
I think it's called The Inner Ring or something like that.
And it's writing about this, how each person has this innate
desire to belong to a group of some kind.
You could use terms like community, a religious group of some kind, like why?
Why is religion so big in the world, You know, not just Christianity.
Take your pick of any major religion.
It's because it's a place to belong and fit in.
On the flip side, if you feel like you're not fitting in
or you're missing a critical piece to fit into
whatever that group might be, it's like a cognitive dissonance.
Something's off, you don't feel right.
And that can really, really be hard
for a person and that's kind of how we're hardwired.
I don't know why God made it entirely that way.
I think it's because they're not designed to do life
by ourselves in isolation, you know?
But it can be really difficult.
It can feel like I don't fit in, I don't belong.
And that's unfortunate because I don't think that
would be the intention of anybody.
You know, in that case, of
they have the songs memorized and you don't or whatever.
It's not like, we're trying to isolate you from the group.
But I can see how that could be very
painful over time, especially if it is an ongoing situation.
Like for you, How long did it feel, How much time did it feel like
you needed to start saying, Hey, I actually feel like I belong here?
I feel like I know how things work now.
Was that a pretty long process or did did it come fairly naturally?
I honestly don't remember, because we would have
been in a couple of different churches
over that initial period for different reasons.
And again, like I was a young person,
like we talked about in the previous episode here,
So it was easier for me to assimilate.
So I didn't feel as much of that, because I was learning faster.
I could see how age could be a factor in that,
you know that the cultural hurdles again I do a lot of traveling
internationally with different ministries and things.
That's incredible.
When a family moves to a foreign culture
to do missions or whatever, the children are just a wonder to watch.
They assimilate so well, like before you know it, you turn around
and they're like speaking the language
and hanging out with their local friends and it's like no big deal.
And the parents are struggling to fit in to whatever culture it might be.
It's just the way it is. It's really hard.
So age, I think, may have something to do with it, or it may depend
on how big the cultural gap is that you're leaping to.
I don't know.
Or maybe that's what we're trying to do with this
episode is just that awareness of,
you know, there is going to be some cultural
a learning curve, I suppose.
Right? I don't know what's a few others.
Did you have any others you wanted to mention?
For one other cultural thing, and I saw this
more at Bible school and it just really tickled me.
But even looking back at like mennonite pictures from like,
you know, the sixties and seventies and eighties, it's like, well,
the worldly culture
was having all of their hairstyles and all of their crazy clothes
and like all their stuff, like Mennonites over that period.
And even then the Amish too, like they had their trends, like,
you know, you might have a season where all the women wore elastic
in the waist of their cape dresses.
Well, now we're to belts or now we're to fitted waist.
And you know how they wear their covering or how, we can't do a whole lot
with our hairstyle under our cap.
Or over our veil or whatever.
But, you know, you might have your hair down
over your ears or like kind of a trend with young people now,
like the generation after me is to, like, have a little loose hair around your ear.
We can find ways to be a little trendy,
so it's like
Mennonites and Anabaptist people are not immune to that.
And if you're in it,
you see those little subtleties, and I just like it cracks me up right now.
Certain Mennonite communities, the guys are really,
have really trendy hairstyles and some of them are pretty elaborate.
And it just cracks me up.
And I just ask them sometimes, I’m like,
you know when you’re 80 and you look back at these pictures,
are you going to feel like
people from the 1970s who’re like, why did I do that?
Why did I have a mullet?
So it’s like, mennonites are not immune to fashion trends.
But they just look a little different.
And they're, it's like a whole rocket science too.
Like trying to figure it all out
because it'll depend on like, which mennonite group and, where they are
in North America and like who they're trying to associate with.
And then, you know,
I mean, for the most part, it's kind of like,
okay, whatever, you know, that really whatever it is, it just is.
But I do find it kind of hilarious in its own unique way.
I don't know. It just it's such a human thing.
Right, that’s what I was going to say, it's just humanity.
Like, how can you have self-expression?
that's kind of cool. I like that. I’m gonna do that too.
Well, okay, so before we started, just before we hit
the record button, another one that your husband sitting here off camera.
I think it was you who said it.
Was it volleyball or you mentioned volleyball?
Or maybe that was our camera guy said something about like,
volleyball is like the thing for, you know, especially men
and our young men, you know, like in their teens.
Volleyball and softball, now spikeball.
Now softball.
Well, the softball is very much of a southern
in the southern Mennonite churches.
Yeah. Goodness.
It's a thing. Such a thing.
And I never thought about that until it's like,
yeah, we just get together and play softball, like, all the time.
Like we have, we will cross the nation for a volleyball tournament.
I mean some churches are staunchly against tournament.
Because they're not okay with organized competition.
They’re not okay with that.
Well, but this is one way that mennonite young people can kind of get around
not playing in, say, leagues or
in a public school setting or something like that.
And okay, again, whatever.
Each church kind of has to figure out where they fall on that.
But yeah, absolutely.
Some of these young guys are literally, you know, on weekends,
they're incredibly good and they're driving, you know, 6 hours.
one way to go play a tournament,
you know, it just is like it's just a thing that we do, apparently.
It's a way
we play, but it's a way we build relationship.
Yeah.
Like you said, you go to these volleyball tournaments,
or you go to Bible school, and you'll play volleyball.
Ceaselessly. Yeah.
Oh my.
See, I'm not much of a volleyball guy.
I look like a giraffe out there.
But, you know.
But, yeah, it was actually I.
So I actually thought about that one
because that one was one I didn't really fit in like, as well.
Like, it's, it's okay, but it wasn't like my thing.
But for some guys at Bible school like, it was their thing.
It was a big deal.
And I always kind of wondered about that.
It's like, if you don't fit in to that, It can feel,
yeah, I can feel a little odd, you know, it can feel and that comes back to that
whole like all of us want to fit in, you know, And, this this can be hard.
It can be a challenge.
But I think you'd said something like, don't take it too seriously or don't...
It's okay to be different.
Yeah. There you go. Yeah. Yeah.
I think that's, I think there's some truth to that. You know.
And kind of bunny trailing off of that.
Maybe on
a little bit more serious note, but thinking about
I guess I want to find a balance here between like the way Mennonites are as a
culture is okay because it's who we are as a people,
just like any other culture has their quirks, has their ways of doing things
like it doesn't mean it's bad just because it's unique to them.
But as a seeker coming
in, you're going to have a fresh perspective on it.
You're going to be looking at things and being like, That's unusual,
or that doesn't make sense because you didn't grow up with that.
It's not normal for you, and that can be really valuable.
Not in a I want to change you and challenge everything kind of way.
I don't think that's the right way to approach that.
But just like curiosity and wanting to learn and that kind of thing.
But something I definitely thought about
as far as what you were talking about was like kind of peer pressure.
And we both know like there's
some communities that are worse about this than others,
but there is definitely really strong
peer pressure and the pressure to perform
in a lot of our communities,
partly because a lot of our principals show up in externals,
which isn't a bad thing, like, you know, the principle of modesty
or the principle of cleanliness or orderliness, because those are
traits of God, like God is a God of order and, you know, those kinds of things.
And that we reflect that in our external lives.
So that's not bad.
But then those can turn into
you're not good enough if
or you need to measure up.
And I think as seekers coming in,
I guess striking that balance between
there will be ways you need to assimilate
just because it is a culture,
but at the same time coming in as a seeker, someone different,
you can come in and say, I don't like to bake
or I don't own my own business or I hate volleyball.
Like, and that's okay.
If you can come in as a seeker willing to learn, but also being,
learning to be completely comfortable with who you are and not feeling like
you have to be Mennonite, like all these other things that we do that aren't really
necessary, you know what I mean?
Like playing volleyball, whatever,
learning how to sew and those kinds of things.
Like,
Yeah, I know a lady just recently told me
she's like, when I told her I was doing this interview, she's like.
Well, I just,
I don't want people coming in thinking, well,
they just have to know how to make bread.
It's like, you don't have to. It's okay.
So I think as seekers coming in, we can maybe help,
bring perspective to that pressure to perform
if we can learn how to assimilate, but also be comfortable with who we are
and saying no to that unhealthy peer pressure,
if you know what I mean.
Yeah.
Like, well, again, this was something
before we hit record we were you're talking about all of us here.
And one of them was to be, okay, let me back up a little bit.
One of the Mennonite culture things,
I think it comes from a kind of German Swiss background.
But we do things right. We are super productive.
We're like, we get things done, again, good things, you know,
but that can push into you need to be very economically prosperous.
You know, you need to work hard.
And other one is you should have a business that's like
super common, you know, for Mennonite
guys especially to have their own business
and those things I think can very quickly again,
those are not wrong, but that could push into some things
that aren't so good because that can put some
some serious pressure on someone coming in to feel like, well, to fit in.
I mean, this is this is how I'm supposed to do it.
So I need to start a business, too.
Well, hold on.
You know, you don't have to do that.
But that is pretty deep in our culture, actually,
which is kind of a quirky thing, I guess.
I mean, that's a,
it's a lot of work, you know, but it's just how we are, I suppose.
So I see some of these things can just be kind of whatever,
you know, that they are.
You like volleyball, you don't, whatever. But
if it's something where you feel a lot of pressure of,
man, I need to be working really, really hard and have my own
business and blah, blah, blah, like the whole list, I don't know.
And this will vary from mennonite community to mennonite community, but
some of those things, I don't know.
It feels like that could be a lot of unnecessary pressure.
Not intentionally.
I don't think the seekers coming in or whatever are being pressured.
You have to do it this way, but just by osmosis you feel like you should.
I don't know.
Do want to speak into that where these things aren't wrong things,
but it could put a unhealthy push on people
to be something maybe they shouldn't I think that's where
some of that conflict
that comes for people looking out, even if they're not interested
in becoming anabaptist.
So like, well, they're just everything they do is on the outside
because there's so much pressure to perform.
And like we're known for our work ethic which comes out of like Godly principles.
But then that becomes, can become not always,
but it can become an overriding thing.
So then like, you know, if you have moms that are in a really busy state of littles
and just like their house is a wreck and so they can just feel like,
well, I can't host anybody until I get all tidied up and then you just can't.
And then you never host like,
And even just that like something like
hosting, is a bunny trail a little bit from what we were just talking about.
But I know that's something that I've heard
from people who've hosted a seeker
visiting their church for the first time or whatever, regardless of.
Well, yeah,
kind of regardless of their background, but often it's a non churched background.
It's not uncommon
at all to have someone set up to host every Sunday,
like just have a schedule of someone in the church is going to host,
if there's visitors, whether it's, you know, out of town
mennonites or a local visitor, whatever, like to have someone in place
to have like a meal ready for visitors.
And I love that about our churches.
I love that we are involved in that way.
But there's been so many times that it, and I guess I would say specifically
an unchurched person, because like, we're in the Bible Belt,
we have lots of Baptists.
They do potlucks, like, there’s a lot of fellowshipping around food
that happens in some other denominations as well.
But so I'll say specifically unchurched people,
they'll get invited to someone's home for lunch and it feels really weird,
It feels really awkward, and it's like, I'm
in your home, I'm at your table, This is your personal space.
And it's like, What do I do with myself?
This feels weird.
And for us, it's just like it's normal because.
I literally don't think a thing of it.
Yeah, that's so interesting, because I have some local friends that I’ve like,
the one had helped to, like with this house
that we built, and it's like, Hey, come on over sometime.
I'll show you the finished product and like,
we'll hang out and I'll make you a smoothie or something.
I mean, nothing crazy at all. Like, and,
you know, that's, just hard
for some people to do because it feels, but this is your, your space.
Whereas we're just like, oh no, we just kind of do this.
Yeah. It's a very...
I'm not really sure where that comes from, actually.
Now that I think about it, I wonder where we get that.
I don't know.
Maybe because we typically be, since
we're more community minded, we're just
more open in that way because, like, we view people outside of our family
as part of our family, like, we just kind of welcome people in.
And, I mean, it's again, it comes back to those biblical principles of, like,
you know, show hospitality to strangers and like those kinds of things.
So, like, hospitality is something I feel like Anabaptists do really well.
And I'm really thankful for that because there's been so many times
when it's just left an incredible testimony of like,
it is significant and I don't really understand it because I'm used to it now.
So I'm like, It's not weird for me to go to someone's home,
especially someone that I know fairly well, just like,
you know, if people come to my house, I'm just like,
I can't hear the door, just come in like, it's fine.
And I have friends that, you know, if they come over at lunch,
I'm like, just raid the fridge and they know they can raid the fridge
and like, yeah.
So I think it is unique
in our American culture to do that.
And that's one of the things I really love.
Like, I love that about Anabaptist culture.
So maybe that's a bit of a quirk, but that's like a really positive quirk.
I would very much agree with you on that.
That is a very positive thing.
I guess it's not a quirk,
but it's something we've held on to is just the thing of gender roles.
And I think one of the things that makes it easier for us to do that is because
our women
are fulfilling those roles of like homemaker,
which I know is going to be super controversial for people.
Right, I know the comments are just going to come pouring in.
I know that's just going to come pouring in.
It's like I'm not opposed.
Like we have so many women who do part time jobs or they're doing,
you know, work from home.
Oh my goodness, the Norwex and the Lemongrass.
Oh, that’s very mennonite cultural phenomenon.
We won’t get into that one.
If you’re curious what that is. You can leave a comment.
If you haven’t heard of it yet.
We have so many like, Norwex
and lemongrass and Tupperware reps, like it's something they can do from home.
Yeah, but it works.
Yeah.
So, like,
I'm not saying women can't work at all or that our women don't go to school
because, like,
I know some women who have, like, pulled a load because they wanted a degree
or for nursing whatever but I do think that is probably
what helps us be able to host well because our ladies
are embracing that
scriptural role of women being keepers at home and caring for the home.
So then we can you know, prepare meals that are pleasant.
Doesn't have to be complicated, but, you know, we have the time
to be home to prepare our home to receive people.
And so if we're never home,
it's always going to look stressful, like it can be stressful
sometimes even when you are home and you have lots of children.
We have things going on, whatever.
But I think that makes us unique as well.
Just how we have embraced gender roles the way God intended
so that we can serve in those ways, makes us unique.
Yeah.
There's very much this. This
style of way of,
like, communal, family oriented things
like that, and like, fairly strong around, centered around those things.
And again, I don't know entirely where that comes from.
Obviously, there's,
there's biblical principles for that, but we have it extra strong
as opposed to some other church groups.
And I don't know if there's some history there,
maybe because of the extreme persecution the Mennonites went through in history
and they had to work together really careful like really closely to survive,
who knows? But is part of who we are.
And that yeah, can definitely throw a curveball.
Like I have a friend
who, you know, just works at a business here in town and I'm like, Hey, come over.
We got a place for hammocks.
If you ever want to just come chill like you can do that.
And she's, you know, keep saying, I'd love to do that. I'd love to do that.
But, you know, it doesn't happen because it it feels kind of weird.
It's like, well, that's your your space, you know?
So as an American in a mainstream American culture, that's like really weird.
And for me, that's like not, it's nothing I don't really think about that.
And it's just what it is, you know?
But these things can really kind of throw you a curveball.
Like when you're coming in fresh,
you know, and not part of having grown up in this culture and so forth.
There was a mennonite group.
I say group because it was a number of local people they got together for...
I think it was Christmas or New Years or something.
And so were Mennonites. We do food.
If we're together, there will be food. It's just what we do.
Another quirk.
We can't get together, not have food. I mean, we are sitting here with chai.
We have to have some kind of beverage or something.
It's just how we fellowship.
But so yeah, there was this local lady from the community who was kind of alone.
She didn't really have a lot of friends or family, and this Mennonite family
had made friends with her and they're like, hey, come over.
You can join our party.
Like they were having a number of friends over.
I think it was New Year's.
And this lady was like, at the end of the evening,
she's like, Was there like, was the punch spiked or anything?
Because like, I feel really good.
And they're like, No, it was just normal punch, Like there was no alcohol anywhere.
And she's like, But I almost feel that way.
She's like, I just feel like relaxed and peaceful and just like,
like she had a really good time and she was just sure
there had to be alcohol somewhere to feel so rest like relaxed and whatever.
And they're like, no, like it's just
it's,
just probably, you know, the presence of God
and just the peace of fellowship and like, we don't need the extra stuff for that.
That is something.
Wow. So even things like that, like
if you go to mennonite parties, there will not be alcohol.
If you're used to that, you will not see.
Like at our weddings.
Like our weddings are definitely not going to be
what you're used to in your typical American weddings.
But yeah, just different things like that.
It depends on which part of life you intersect with the mennonites.
But the cultural learning curve is very, very, very steep in some areas.
In another ways, maybe not so much like, you know, yeah, you get in all those but
and again, some of them are really positive, like hospitality and so forth.
And some of them I would view as,
you know, maybe not so good, like maybe some of the pressure of
you should have your own business.
You should,
I think another one we mentioned before we started recording, you should,
you shouldn't rent, you should buy a house.
That's a big one.
I think that one is slowly changing actually.
But you know, that could be a lot of undue unnecessary pressure on someone.
Just again, not because someone's like you should,
you know, but it's just that's what everybody else is doing.
So you feel this pressure to do that and maybe you shouldn't, you know, or whatever
you could
argue that from all kinds of directions.
Yeah.
I think maybe all we're doing here with this episode is just like
the awareness that these things are there
because it is so easy for us that are in that environment to completely forget.
It's like the fish in water, like you don't even know the water exists
because it's just your culture and that's not wrong.
But be at least aware of it
for people.
And I think people like yourself have been really good for me to help me see that,
because you maybe mentioned
that that's a little different, you know, or whatever,
because you're coming from a different background
and that's healthy and that's good for us to see that.
Okay Yeah. What's, what's a few others?
Now, something
even just in the community,
probably especially in the community that my husband I live in, because we both
would have grown up in like small southern church plants
where there wasn't a lot of community connections.
As far as your bloodlines.
And so the community we're living in now, he has a lot of family history there.
And yeah, just the way his family
looks, he's easily identified as being part of that family.
And that's true for some other bloodlines as well within the anabaptist Church.
But anyways,
so we'll be walking through our small town and it's typically an Amish person.
This random Amish person will come up to us
and they never introduce themselves.
So we never know who they are
because everybody already knows who they are, But we don't because
we're new to the community.
And he'll just be like, you're a so-and-so.
And we're like, Yeah, we can't hide it. And he's like, So!
And then he'll just go, like,
talk about things in the community, or he'll try to, like,
just really pick apart the generational lines and like,
so what part of this family you come from and all this stuff, but something that
it would be good for seekers to know and not be weirded out by, especially if
you're in a larger
conservative community like that where they do talk about bloodlines
a lot in like your generational backgrounds,
it can feel really sketchy when like an Amish,
I'm going to say Amish specifically because that's our experience
with people who do this the most, when they will come out to be like,
So who are you?
Who is your family?
Where are you from? Where do you live? Where do you work? And all these things.
And I have threatened so many times to just make up a business card
and just be like, Here, this is who I am.
And in the broader world that feels really sketchy.
It's like, why do you want all this personal information about me?
And if it was anyone other than an anabaptist person,
it would feel really weird and I would totally not give them my information.
But in Anabaptist circle's like bloodlines are really important
because community is important and family is important.
So it's important for us to know who you are from And that's like
that's a blessing because we can trace it like it's not a problem.
But like for a seeker coming in, it can feel really weird for people to
start asking a lot of personal questions about you and be like, Okay, who are you?
There's a name for it, you know, called the Mennonite game, Yes,
and some people really like to play the mennonite game.
The Mennonite game is real.
Yeah.
Because like you go to Bible school say or something
and it's, that's practically part of the introduction process.
Oh you're so-and-so, I'm so-and-so.
Where are you from?
Who's your, boom? And you just try to.
Yeah.
Do you know so-and-so well, do you know this person?
Oh that church, I visited that church.
It's like totally a thing. The network.
Goodness.
Mennonites are like the best at networking.
Because of the, community side is so tight and it's very easy, you could go to
about any Mennonite in North America and find a direct connection to them in
no time flat. Somehow, even if it's obscure.
It won't matter.
They will work until they find it.
And no matter how secure, you know, and some people
get terribly annoyed at that and just find it incredibly frustrating.
Some People think it's amazing.
It's just, you know, it just is.
It's just it just is.
Which there's a lot of cultures in other countries
where that would be very normal, you know, very typical.
You're known by, you know, your father.
Or your father’s family or whatever. Yeah, exactly.
And what, village you're from or what, country, what
you know, region what all that stuff, what ethnic group.
And that's a simply what's going on here.
And it can be. Yeah.
Very disorienting for a new person coming in and experiencing that.
And for a seeker coming in, it can be
it can make you feel like an outsider because it's like, well,
I don't especially as a new seeker, like the longer
you're there, the more people get to know, like, I have a lot of connections now.
So it's really from going to Bible school or, you know, being involved
with different ministries.
Like I have a lot of connections now, so now I can, I can play the game
like I can play. the Mennonite game.
But initially it's like, no, I don't know that person.
And no, I'm not related to them.
Like I'm not related to anybody. Because,
they'll go by last names for example.
And you didn't really have a mennonite last name at that point so.
I mean it’s at least german, but they still struggled with that one like,
Okay.
Yeah, I remember some of that being with your brother sometimes.
And like, they're like, wow, You know, I can't place where.
Yeah, I can’t place you in the Mennonite world,
you know, and again, they can come across or feel very weird.
It can feel isolating. Yeah, Yeah.
Well I just don’t belong because I don't have those connections.
But you don’t have to to fit in.
Like, it's okay to not have those connections.
It's nice when you do it really is, because then you can feel more connected.
But I guess that's another thing of like, Don't let it intimidate you or discourage
you, that you don't have those connections because you simply don't.
And that's okay.
Like it's just another place where you just, like,
accept those difference, need to be willing to accept those differences
and not let it go to you and just be like, I just don't fit in.
Yeah,
Yeah.
I think the takeaways I would have for this episode,
which has been a little more lighthearted, some challenges in their challenges
as far as like ways to challenge
Mennonite background people and ways the challenge seekers
would be to just be, like I said, just be willing to laugh at yourselves,
whether you're a mennonite or seeker, Like there's going to be seekers
who are like not doing things the way that culture says they should
and just like being able to laugh at each other like you're really quirky.
Well, that didn't make sense and just laugh at each other and it's okay.
Like,
yeah, to just not take ourselves too seriously.
We need to give, ourselves time to learn, to know each other and learn how things
are and just giving a lot of grace to each other will go a long way.
Yeah.
Graciousness, humility.
I think these are some pretty foundational things that we should always have,
especially in these cases, because it's easy to think our culture is the best.
You know, everybody should be like us.
That's that's really easy
if you find fault with it, then that just really offends me.
And it's like, Well, what if I'm just genuinely wondering why?
Or confused. Yes, exactly.
Yeah. Those are some really good takeaways.
And yeah, I think this is a lot for all of us to think about whether,
you know, whoever is listening to this, whether you're part of a mennonite church
or you're not, but you're interested in kind of like,
what's it like on that side of things?
And wherever people fall in the spectrum there is,
always going to be a cultural element.
Like every church group, Mennonite or not, has their certain ways of doing things,
and yet it's definitely there and it's a thing.
And at least the awareness of it goes a long ways in again,
being gracious with each other and learning from each other to.
I think is really important.
I think the Mennonite churches have a lot to learn from those that join from.
Having grown up in that and have joined,
I think we have a lot to learn from those people.
So yeah, I just thanks for taking the time to share this.
I will never think about yodeling and accordions the same way ever again, so
I appreciate that.
Is there anything else you would like to to add as we wrap this episode up?
All right. Well, thanks again for coming on the podcast.
I appreciate it Samantha! Yep, it’s been fun.
Thanks for listening to this episode with Samantha.
If you enjoyed this, we did two other episodes with her
that you can find linked in the description below.
You can find all our content over on our website at anabaptistperspectives.org.
We also have a monthly newsletter that you can subscribe to there as well.
Thanks so much for listening and we'll catch you in the next episode.