Foreign.

Hello, people.

This is the get you some productions podcast.

This is a show that is usually a show about music production from the first note to the last fan and everything in between.

And we're talking today about what's in between, I guess, because we talk about lots of stuff, whatever is related to music production.

And it could be songwriting, musicianship, music production, proper attire for a gig.

You know, it's how whether you should curse out your fans.

You know, we talk about everything, but today we're going to be talking about artwork because we're in the process of recording an album for our band, the Handshake.

And Thomas Warming, who is a good friend and also a very talented artist, designed the album cover for the first Handshake album.

And it was a piece of artwork that he had already made that we.

That he was kind enough to let us use for the first album.

So we wanted to use his artwork again because we love his artwork, and it's great to have some sort of, I guess, like, consistency of, you know, I don't know, like, brand consistency in a way.

So.

Yeah.

So Thomas is a.

Is a really talented artist and also an old friend, and I welcome you to our humble show, Thomas.

Well, thank you.

Thank you very much.

I'm.

I'm happy to be here with you.

Good, man.

I love this stuff.

Yeah.

Is it normal to be nervous or is that.

Is that.

Oh, it's normal.

Oh, okay.

Good.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, it's not.

Is this your.

I've done podcasts before, but I've never done podcasts where.

Where I talk about my work.

Oh, you haven't?

No, I actually haven't.

Listen, man, you're the man.

That's why you're the.

This is your feature.

I guess it is, yeah.

There's a little bit of lag on my end here with the.

The screen.

Is that normal?

I actually do think it's.

It's normal because I've rewatched them and sometimes the lag, it comes and goes, but when in the finished recording, there's no lag.

I think zoom.

I think Zoom records both ends of it and slaps it together.

Okay.

Okay.

So matches.

All right.

So.

All right.

Okay.

So why don't we start.

Why don't you.

So we're going to talk about actual specific pieces of art that you've created today.

But just to give everyone some context, why don't you talk about your.

I don't know, you're just, like.

You're how you got into artwork and a little bit about Yourself as an artist?

Well, I mean, I've been drawing and painting my whole life.

I guess for as long as I remember.

I was just always sort of in my own world.

I was very inspired by comic books and films, tv, like all kinds of things growing up.

I grew up in Denmark, lived most of my life in Copenhagen.

I sort of.

Back in those days where there weren't really computers and you couldn't.

There was not a lot of options.

Like, if you wanted to be an artist, you could, you know, there wasn't really that many art schools or there wasn't really that much for you.

So what, what I did naturally was I got into advertising.

So later I got into an advertising agency as an art director and then I started pursuing more because I was a little disappointed, to be honest with you, with the.

The whole advertising adventure, because it wasn't really as much about drawing as I.

You know, obviously there's a lot of concept designs and coming up with things, and it's very creative, but it's.

It's not drawing like I imagined it would be.

So I started also on the side, like taking all kinds of art classes, fine art, perspective drawing, anatomy, all those things.

Just basically honing my skills and getting a lot of long nights, like, at the drawing table.

And then I got into a studio with.

With a bunch of other people in this town where I was already doing the advertising stuff.

And then at some point I ended up moving to Copenhagen, which is the capital of Denmark, and there was just more opportunity there.

And I got into a really good studio there.

But I was basically all.

All the time I was in Copenhagen, I was in that studio with like eight other 10 other guys that I consider to be the best illustrators in, in Denmark.

Like, they were all there.

So that was amazing for me because I just learned so much from them.

There was so much.

My many conversations.

Everybody was always helping or looking over the shoulder and giving their critiques, which were brutal.

And just a lot of joking around.

And it was fun.

Like a really, really fun.

And many of those guys at that time were way ahead of me, both in, in terms of their abilities, but also in terms of just their careers.

Like, they had already published books, they had comic books.

Some of them were working internationally for, you know, Marvel or DC or like, publishing in France.

So for me it was very exciting to.

To just be able to learn, absorb all that.

And I've always tried since to find sort of mentors that you're lucky to find if you find them, and that they.

And they Are willing to mentor you.

Right.

Always have somebody who's been around, done everything, very accomplished.

And I've had some very unusual mentors that just have taught me so much about not just art, but also just business or ways to think and plan, organize how to be productive, like what not to do, what try not to do.

So that's so basically when I was, I think, yeah, it was like when I was 40 years old, I had an apartment, I had that studio, I had another art studio that was for painting.

So the, the studio, the one studio was a commercial sort of illustration studio.

The other one was an art studio where I painted.

And then around the time When I was 40, I went to New York and showed off my work and I just went literally with a, like a briefcase, organized meetings in advance, went to all kinds of publishers and agents and knocked on their door, like old school, you know, with my portfolio, like, here's my, like.

And it was hard.

It was very, very hard.

As you know, in New York City, it's brutal.

But I met some, I mean, yeah, around.

What year was that?

Just curious.

So that would have been in 2008, I believe.

Yeah, that was in 2008.

So then I went back to Denmark because I had made one major sort of contact on that trip to New York for a month.

And it was a 3D animation studio.

They were producing a feature film.

Feature film, 3D animated.

And I auditioned with them and it was a very unusual studio out in Brooklyn and it's about 60 guys or something working on this thing.

And so I went back to Copenhagen and I started working for them remotely.

Concept design, like, you know, design the environment and to determine how this is going to look, what's that character going to look, what are those vehicles going to look like, what's, what's, how is the world going to look?

Right.

So I, I started doing that, but it was, it was crazy because there was a nine hour or six hour time difference, right.

So a lot of the time when they would come in in the morning and expect me to do like dailies and talk and like be on meetings, like to discuss because it's a very fast paced industry animation.

So that was like 3 o' clock in the morning or something for me, right.

So I was like, oh, like what's going on?

Good morning guys.

So quickly it became a thing where it would be beneficial if I was in New York.

So they sponsored a three year work visa back then, I believe, ironically, I think it was called the Einstein Visa or something.

Me and Melania you know, are you.

So good to know.

Yeah.

Yeah, man.

No.

So I came over.

I actually decided, I'm going to do this.

And I was 40 years old at the time, so everybody and anybody I knew in Denmark thought, oh, my God, Thomas is having, like, a.

An existential crisis or something, because, like, I sold my apartment.

I. I got out of both my studios and I moved, like, you know, and.

And then I just got right into this work situation and, you know, New York city, it's like 10 hours a day, 12 hours a day, and you're just cranking, right?

And all those guys I was working with, they were in their 20s, just sitting there, eating popcorn and playing video games and having, like, figurines everywhere.

And.

And I was 40, so it was like, okay, there's a little bit of a.

A difference there.

But no.

So I did that for a long time.

And actually, ironically, the imagery that.

That we're going to talk about today, I assume I created all that at that time.

You know what?

So now that you're saying that out loud, because you were saying create environments, and that's what a lot of these images are.

They're environments.

That's what they are.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

It's interesting because, you know, for the first time, because I had really not done digital illustration for very long.

Like, at most I had done a year and a half or something.

And, like, when I started working for the animation company, they gave me this enormous, like, Cintiq, it's called, right where you're drawn paint, right on the computer screen.

And I've never done it before, ever.

So it was like a huge learning curve that I had to learn, like, all the mechanics of it.

But.

But so.

So what happened was I was actually very hesitant to go digital for a very long time, several years.

And it wasn't until, like, pretty much everyone else at the studio in Copenhagen, they had all gone digital because it was sort of, like, expected now in the industry.

And it's.

Because it's faster, it's cheaper, you.

You can edit, you can send, was just like the old analog system was suddenly like an outdated sort of dinosaur way of doing things.

So I was reluctant for a long time.

I wish I had started earlier because I would have progressed faster, but.

But I just was trying to hold on to the craft, you know?

But so one of the things that happened with the specific image of that series of images that.

That I showed you was that came around the time when I started really digging into Photoshop.

Like, what can you do?

Not Only drawn painting wise.

But suddenly you can do things that you were not able to do in real life, like analog way.

So I started digging into creating realistic like photographic environments basically.

Right.

That are created out of almost like collage.

Like I would do all kinds of photographs, walk around New York, like take pictures of all kinds of weird stuff.

And I would come home and I would chop it all up and then I would construct something that doesn't exist, but so it looks real.

Right.

And then I would start painting on that and like use the skills that I already knew how to do.

And basically a lot of it was what I was already doing for the animation company, except I was just drawing and painting and putting things together real quick because you have to always show quick stuff.

Maybe three or four, five, six different super detailed paintings in one day, you know, so you just have to think fast and know how to work fast.

But that became those pictures.

So it was very exploring, sort of exploring exciting time.

So I know that you still.

You make a living out of doing some artwork, but let.

So.

And I know because you.

Because we're friends and because I also see that things that you post from time to time in social media.

Yeah.

So a lot of art that you're producing and there's a lot of commercial art you're still producing.

Obviously that's like, that's your job.

But there's also, I'm curious about, you know, if you, if you could just make art, you know, just like whatever you wanted to do.

Yeah.

What would you do?

Or.

And are you doing that now you'd.

On this?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So the way that I always have been working in the past and still try to work is almost like the Olympic stool that people step up on.

Like the first, second and third winner.

Like you know, that little stool they step up on or whatever podium.

So I try to always have a rotation like that where it's like one of them is money.

Right.

One of them is jobs that make that create money.

Right.

The other one is something that I really, really find creatively interesting, which is not about the money, but.

And that could be anything.

And then the last third one is something that really means something to me personally.

Right.

Whether it's a new children's book I want to do or like another book I want to do or paintings I want to make or something that's for me, but.

But also with a mindset of having it be a product at some point.

Right.

I mean those days where it's still where, where I'm Just painting for fun.

They don't exist.

But everything has a purpose somehow.

But what.

The way I do it is always.

I keep that in rotation.

Right now, this is the most important.

Right now.

That's the most important right now.

I need to make money so I can pay rent.

Right now I. I feel drained.

Like I need something that excites me and so forth.

Does that answer that?

Absolutely.

And so, for the record, I actually did want to just draw attention to the fact that the first thing is that that book that you worked on, the Cannonball King.

Right.

Children.

That was.

Yeah, that was a children's book, and that was a favorite book in our household.

Oh, really?

Long time.

Oh, yeah, for a long time.

Happy to hear that.

Yeah.

And so.

And I thought that was really cool.

And maybe this is something we can talk about another day because I do have an idea for a brand that's also a band, but that's also a story that I think would work very well in a children's book format and.

Or like a potentially, like an animated cartoon sort of format.

Okay.

It's been sort of a dream of mine for a long time, but I used to think about that a lot.

So you mean like something like gorillas or like whatever.

I don't necessarily know what this.

How.

What it would look like stylistically.

Okay.

But I am a huge fan of Futurama, for instance.

Oh, yeah, me too.

Yeah.

So, you know, maybe something like that.

And I would actually get friends of mine who are comedians to write it.

I wouldn't even write it myself.

I would just be the idea person.

But I would hire the best people that I know to do all the parts.

That's for another later thing.

But every time we read the Cannonball King, because Elizabeth, my daughter, is now 13.

But when I met you, she wasn't born.

And then we got that book.

You must have given it to us.

I don't know.

Yeah.

And then we read it for so many years.

It must be still in one of these bookcases around.

Oh, my God, that's fabulous.

Yeah.

And so that.

So I remember that book very well, and I always liked it a lot, and I.

And I really did like the artwork a lot.

And now, see, that was before computers.

That's all hand painted, like on paper.

Yeah.

Acrylic paint.

Oh, yeah.

You can tell that's not a digital.

That's not.

No.

It has a whole other field.

Right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Is there.

Is that a.

Can somebody.

Well, is that still available for purchase?

If we leave a link somewhere I.

Don'T think so, because that's.

I did that back in Denmark.

So that.

That must be like.

I don't know, man.

Wow.

Okay.

18 years ago.

Because I would include anything we talk about, I'll include a link to it, you know, because actually, by the way, I couldn't find your website.

Really?

What is it?

Is it just thomaswarming.com?

is it.

No, it's a blog.

It's a blog.

Okay.

Thomas Warming blog spot.

Okay.

So I'll.

I'll throw that.

You know, that's one of our policies.

We always link to people.

Yeah.

That's cool.

Absolutely.

I'll be sharing it all out.

Another thing that I just.

Now I'm just recalling.

And these are all really different types of projects.

Yeah.

Was all those portraits you did that were like, pencil.

Like, there were a lot of famous musicians and those were so cool.

Do you still.

I think at one point you were just selling them all off.

Yeah, I was.

It's.

Some actually started, like.

So this is one of those personal projects.

I always wanted to do a book about the blues, Right.

Mainly because of my mom.

Because my mom, before I was born, had a very interesting life when she was very young.

Long story short, she was an old pair in France, Paris.

And she was like 17, 18 years old.

She somehow befriended a very, very famous blues pianist called Memphis Slim.

And they were, like, in a relationship, right?

Which even back then and even in Paris was kind of, like, weird because, you know, with the whole racial agenda and everything back then.

But they were together for, like, two years, and Memphis Slim was.

He.

He had become sort of this beacon for the blues in Paris.

So all the musicians from.

From America, like, you know, Sonny Boy Williamson, T Bone Walker, you know, Money Waters, like, all those great blues musicians, they were basically treated like, in the States.

Like, they were not even allowed, you know, to have a drink in, like, the venue they just played at, you know.

So what he did was he brought them all over to Europe.

They went on tour.

They went.

He organized all the tours through Germany and, like, France and all those places.

And these guys for the first time were, like, treated like kings, you know, over there.

Wine and dined and made good money.

And people, like, love them and, you know, can I have your autograph?

And, like, these guys could barely write, some of them, you know.

So my mom amassed this, I guess that you just sort of, without thinking about it, held on to, like, collection of all kinds of crazy stuff.

Letters from these guys, all kinds of great photographs, sign things, like, all kinds of Wonderful stuff.

And she kept journals of it.

And so that is something that I have been working on.

And it started basically with me just sketching not, not finalized paintings, but sketching all these blues artists, like all the ones that she has taught, because I already knew their music.

I grew up with it.

I was like, listening to Sonny Boy Williamson when I was five, you know, So I kind of stood out in kindergarten a little bit.

But, but so that, what you're talking about, that's what spawned all those portraits.

Like, suddenly whenever I had time, I liked making these drawings.

And then suddenly I had like, a whole bunch of them laying around.

And I thought, well, maybe people want to buy them.

And I put them up and I sold a whole bunch of them.

And, and it's one of those things.

It's like people who have known me or grown up with me or went to school with me or know that I'm an artist and have like, you maybe bought some of my books for their kids or whatever, suddenly they could get like, an original something for, like, cheap.

Because that, the whole point was to just not sit here and be like, I have art everywhere I need to, like, get rid of.

But, but that's all, that's how I did all those.

Yeah, those are cool.

But.

And you don't have, do you have those in a, a collection online at all?

Or did you just have them physical?

There were never digitized.

And then you sold a bunch of them.

So that's, the ship is sailed at this point.

Right?

See, no, no, I, I, I take pictures always or scan whatever I do just so I have it know.

But the problem is also, like, I've gotten more and more into the kind, the line of work that I do.

And with my wife, when we work together, we write books together, like, all kinds of things for celebrities, or it could be CEOs of Fortune 500 companies or actors or like all, all kinds of stuff.

Musicians.

The, the way that it's kind of turned out is, and I told you we're now we're getting into doing documentary TV and stuff.

And it's all very exciting to me.

And, but so it, it's not, it's, it, it's just different creative endeavors, you know.

But what was I gonna say?

Oh, yeah.

So the, the thing a lot of times what happens is I'll end up suddenly being hired to do like, a series of children's books for somebody who's kind of a celebrity or something, and then I cannot talk about that at all for, like, two years.

Right?

And we are under constant MBAs and all kinds of stuff.

So sometimes it looks like on my website, like, it's like people are like, I wonder what the hell he's doing.

It looks like he's not really doing anything.

It's because I can't show it.

You know, you cannot show it before it's out.

Right.

And I don't want to get in trouble, and I don't want to get sued.

And you have to pay the bills.

So, you know, if you.

If you're doing that, it leaves probably less time to do, you know, a sketch of your favorite blues artist or something.

Yeah.

Whatever the case may be.

But those things are actually just like.

Those things kind of tend to keep me sane because when I.

It sounds crazy, but if I am totally overworked on the computer, like, with digital art, if I work, like 12 hours for, like, two weeks and I'm busted.

Right.

It helps to just bring out all the paints or the.

The colored pencils, like, and just sit and, like, do something quick and like.

And they.

I don't want people to get the wrong idea because sometimes people are like.

They're almost like.

Because they don't.

They don't really differentiate between something that's really finished or something that's just a sketch.

Right.

So it's almost like.

Well, I kind of remember.

I used to remember that you were better than this.

And it's like, well, it's a sketch, you know, but so.

But it's kind of.

You also, you want to keep that going because it's not like riding a bike.

You know what they say, you never forget.

The thing is, with.

Because of the eye hand coordination and everything that goes into drawing and painting, you.

You.

You literally, if you don't do it, suddenly you have to.

It's not like you have to start over again, but it's like, man, whoa, I gotta.

I gotta get on this now again to get to where I wanna be.

Right.

Yeah.

I think a lot of people don't realize maybe they do.

But I. I feel the same way about music sometimes.

And I actually do have a channel, a YouTube channel, where I post almost all of my practicing.

Okay.

And.

Because first of all, playing music is sort of like, it's art, but it's also sort of like you're an athlete.

Yeah.

And you have to maintain the physicality of it.

And art, visual art is actually very similar because you have to.

You know, it's like your brain and your hand have to communicate to a certain extent, and you have to have the right muscles in your fingers, and then.

And they have to have that memory of being able to draw the line in such a way.

Otherwise, you're just drawing.

You know, you're not in control of your.

Yeah.

Your tool.

So it's absolutely 100.

It's a practice.

It's a craft.

At the end of the day, it's a craft.

And when you're.

When.

I guess sometimes, like musicians, I guess is that's why they keep.

Like, I play the guitar, too.

And it's like you just.

If you don't run the scales, like, or whatever, if you suddenly have a couple of months where you don't play at all, and then you sit with the guitar and start, like, suddenly it's like, God damn, what's wrong with my hand?

It's like, I used to be able to do this, like, faster or better.

100.

So you just need to sort of have.

It's like sharpening a pencil, I guess.

You have to.

Yeah.

You have to keep.

You have to keep it up for sure.

So.

Okay, so I love.

So this.

Just hearing you talk always reminds me about how much I love having this show because I love hearing people's stories.

But we do have an agenda.

What is it?

It's to look at that artwork and talk about it.

Yes.

So let me see if I can share my screen.

And I've done this before on the show.

All right.

Can you see your stuff?

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

So let's start with this one, because this is the one that we used for the first Handshake album.

Yeah.

But we just used basically just like, an outline that goes as far as this pillar and then as far as this pillar.

And maybe up to here, it was just a square bit.

Yeah.

And I've shown people this folder of your art, and people love it, and I think people really love it because it's just so detailed.

Yeah.

And they're all so moody, I guess.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

And so people just feel like, oh, there's so much detail.

So it's very interesting to look at it.

But also there's mood.

There's some moodiness.

I showed this to my friend, a couple of friends, and they're like, oh, this is.

I love the lighting.

A couple of different pieces, because there's a couple that we're going to look at.

But let me ask you, how do you want to do this in terms of going through them?

You want to just talk a little bit about each one and just like, is there something you can tell us about maybe the inspiration to create each one.

And actually I was very curious about process and you said a little bit about how you take pictures and I guess must digitize them in some way and then.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, well, I guess it makes more sense if I.

If I talk about how I work.

Right.

Because when you've done something for so long, like I have, like, just been a professional illustrator for like 30 years now, and I tend to work in all kinds of different styles, which is good when you're freelance because you can get hired to do all kinds of different things.

But in terms of leaving, like that one sort of the Thomas Warming imprint, it's like.

Or so people tend to be like, you know, if they buy your art, they.

They're like, oh, it's a Warhol.

You can tell immediately.

It's a Warhol.

So you can always, like, tell immediately with me because I do so many different styles and jobs and like.

But.

But as long as I'm alive, I'd rather be alive and live, be able to do what I do than, you know, have to struggle and suffer the whole time, so.

Well, I do think there's a ver.

A lot of consistency stylistically between these pieces.

Oh, yeah, those.

Sure.

Yeah, there are.

And you know, it's funny because the way.

When you're taught the way I am, when you do a lot of book and like, graphic novel type of work, sort of sequential art, storytelling, like that, you tend to.

You become very meticulous in the way you work.

Like there's.

There are certain steps that you.

You always do the same steps.

You start with little thumbnails, like sketching out, like, very little ideas.

Then you expand those.

You make a sketch, like, new sketch, then you take that and refine it in another sketch.

And then you do sort of a final sketch and then you transfer that to the painting that you're.

You're going to do in the end.

So that whole process is some.

A way that I've always worked.

It's very much the way that the old directors, you know, like Alfred Hitchcock and like recent, you know, directors like Ridley Scott, they.

They do all their work like that.

But like, before, did they shoot anything?

Everything is like totally mapped out.

Like there's no surprises or mistakes or everything has been planned.

Right.

And that's what I used to do.

But then at some point it also gets kind of like a little.

A little factory, like, if you know what I mean.

Even.

Even if you're just one person.

So then I started Doing all those steps in my head.

Like, I would spend an enormous amount of time walking around thinking about how I could spend less time doing the actual work.

So it makes no sense, but it sort of.

I skipped all those steps to get to where I had a very clear idea of what it.

What I wanted to do and how I wanted to execute it.

So when I finally sit down, I know exactly what I need to do.

But what I then sort of applied onto that method was that I just sort of applied.

Because when.

When you're that organized and.

And it's that planned out, you can also kill the spontaneous sort of energy in it.

You know, when you refine, refine, refine, refine, suddenly it's almost like dead in the end, Right?

Yeah.

So what I started doing was right before I started actually painting or putting together what it is I want to do, then I sort of just like, open myself up to suggestion at the very last minute.

Sort of just like open my head.

Like, I guess what people do when they meditate, I don't know, something.

And then whatever comes into my mind, I don't really question it.

And for a picture like this, for instance, when I look at it, I'm like, what the hell was I thinking?

You know?

But at the same time, it's like, at that time, I didn't question it.

I just.

I allowed it to happen, and now it's there, you know?

And to me, when I look at it, it reflects a lot of the first impressions that I got when I moved to America.

Like when I.

When I first saw New York and Brooklyn, which are like two different entities, really.

Right?

Like the grittiness of Brooklyn and.

And some of the grandeur of the.

Of Manhattan.

Right.

So.

So basically, when.

When you experience something like that, it's like, overpowering, like, really overwhelming if you're a visual person, like I am.

So it was almost like a necessity for me to sort of, you know, transform all the impressions and thoughts into something.

Right.

So there was a lot of things going on.

It's like, you know, the neighborhood I moved into in Brooklyn with my now wife Maya was sort of a mix of an old Italian neighborhood, a Hispanic neighborhood and a Hasidic neighborhood.

And those three are completely different.

Right.

You know, it's like three different planets, but they're right next to each other, like two blocks from each other.

Right.

It was insane.

So it's like almost going to a different country every day with your camera.

And I was just snapping away at all this.

And that's when something Starts building in your head, and it's like I'm gonna create, like, something out of all this that looks real, like, in one image, but it's just.

It is what it is.

Like, when I look at it now, I'm.

Yeah, I'm a little overwhelmed myself, actually.

Okay.

Well, let me tell you, I. I love to hear that, because here's my.

Here's my reaction to all this.

I am so used to looking at this image because this album we made came out in 2012, so it's been 13 years that I've been looking at this image in particular, this little area here.

Like, just from here to here.

Yeah.

And then down here.

And all I can say is that there is something.

It's so New York, and I am born and raised in New York and in Brooklyn, and it just feels so appropriate that, you know, that if I was going to express myself, that this is, you know, kind of like all this feels very familiar to me for you.

But the way you presented it, because you felt so like, it was almost like an assault.

Yeah.

And that's what it is like, you.

Know, it's almost like.

Do you know, like, for instance, I've never been to New Jersey before.

Right.

I've been to New York before.

I've been to Brooklyn before.

I had never been to Harlem or Queens or, you know, but certainly not New Jersey.

So the first time I went to New Jersey, under the tunnel and all that, you come out, see the sign, welcome to beautiful New Jersey, or whatever it says.

Literally, the first 45 minutes driving through New Jersey is like a hellscape.

It's just like this industrial mad hellscape.

Like, for me, it's like there's no people.

There's no stores or, like, do people even live there?

It's just like.

It's like this dystopian, like, mad landscape.

And I was just.

I was like, this is the.

One of the best things I've ever seen because it was just so alien to me, you know?

Yeah.

So a lot of that sinks in.

And also the.

The thing about New York and Brooklyn, especially Brooklyn, is it seems like so much of it is just sort of like, slapped together.

Like, it's like, oh, there used to be a house, but it's.

It's sort of gone, but it's.

And they decided to build something else.

And there's some cables and there's some pipes, and.

Where's all that going, by the way?

Is it even working?

Like, what is that?

You know?

You know what?

A hundred percent I think you just nailed it.

I think you just described New York and Brooklyn in particular.

That description basically says it all.

Yeah.

So let's.

Let's just do all the.

Let's do all the city images real quick because let's do this one next.

Because this one is also just so in your face.

Yeah.

That it's like.

It's like, holy.

Like, you know what I mean?

There's a lot going on here.

I mean, this is basically, you know, Times Square in a nutshell.

This is the way Times Square feels, big time.

Yeah.

I like to.

I like to.

In an image, I like to try and capture what something feels like more than what it looks like.

I like to get it accurate, what it looks like.

But the feeling of, you know, like, the energy, the mad energy.

All these people, where are they going?

Like, what's going on?

Where?

And.

And you tend to.

When you're in New York, you sort of think.

You sort of look at everyone like there's something wrong with them.

Right.

Like, it's like, what's this person doing?

Like, why is he doing that?

Like, what's going on?

Like, why is she.

Why is he like that?

Like, it's constant, just like, all these questions.

Right?

Like, and.

And it's.

It's strange because Manhattan, the structure, the way that it's built, everything is just like a grid, right?

Very, very organized.

That's why it's so easy to navigate, like, if you've never been there.

Right.

So you pick up on the.

It's all.

It's almost like a very mathematical sort of city, the way that it's built.

And it makes it easier on your brain to sort of take it all in, because you know how to get from A to B and.

And all that by foot.

I mean.

Right.

If you're walking around.

I'm not talking about the subway.

I don't even want to get into that.

But.

But no.

So I think a lot of this is, you know, why is there a tiger there?

Why is that phone hanging there?

Why is that even working?

Why is that?

Who is operating that weird little car that's driving around?

And all that paint, like, why is all that paint there?

What.

What are those hoses?

Like, why are people wearing wrestling masks?

What's, you know, what's going on?

Basically, this is one of those things.

I'm not joking.

If I was to, like, one day, literally, if I was to smoke a joint.

Look at this.

My head would explode.

No, I'm not.

Anybody would.

Yeah.

No, it's just like because there's.

It's almost like, wow.

Holy moly.

And I actually had those.

I had these made into, like, really big, beautiful prints by Sachi and Sachi.

Yeah.

And people could buy them and.

And I got a couple of them myself.

And what size prints?

They're like, huge.

They're like.

Yeah.

I don't know, what do you say?

It's like.

Well, now we're talking metric system, so, you know, I would say like 1 meter, like 100 centimeters times, but something like.

Okay, so decent sized painting to hang in the house.

Can you still get them?

I think you can still.

I'll have to.

Basically.

I have not actually looked at that in quite a while.

If we.

If you can, we should.

We should give people an opportunity to buy them if they want.

Yeah, let's do.

Hold on.

There's two other, like, cityscape ones.

There's this one.

This one's interesting, I think.

So the reason I like this one, but the re.

The reason why I didn't like it for the album cover was one, it was too dark.

And number two, it was definitely, like, just too much of a strip club sort of vibe.

And that's not the type of, you know, like, message I'm putting out for sure.

Not this album.

At least not this album.

Maybe a future.

Maybe a different.

I do have another project where it might be appropriate, but not this.

Not this album.

Talk about this one for a bit.

Oh, man.

Yeah.

Like what.

What made you do this?

What's this lady doing here, by the way?

Like, well, so see, that's the thing.

It's like.

It's like my phone is talking to me.

Go ahead.

All these rooftops, by the way, a lot of them I photographed from.

From our rooftop in Brooklyn where we live, our apartment.

So I took all these various photographs and then piece something together that look realistic.

And then, you know, all these other elements of.

In industry, industrial shapes and.

And like, you're saying it's.

It's a very dark image.

It's got a lot of sex kind of undertones going on.

And then, you know, the eye goes down to that female standing on her own in solitude on that little balcony in her red dress.

And there's a champagne glass in front of her.

So.

Yeah, you tell me, man.

What does that mean?

I don't know.

I think it's one of those things where you.

Sometimes when you're in a city like New York where, you know, there's so many people.

I live in LA now, and it's even worse.

I Mean, not worse, but it's.

It's even worse where some.

Sometimes the more people who live in one place, the more lonely you can feel.

It's almost like that taxi driver, really.

You know, it's like suddenly you become.

You sort of get very secluded or reclusive in.

Because you're.

It's almost too much for you to take in all of that.

Dude, I, you know, actually.

So now that we've.

We're sitting here, I actually do really love just sitting and looking at these images and talking about them.

And what I saw was, because I have the mouse so I can sort of show you, but I looked.

I started looking more at the detail and you see how there's like, it's New York at night and there's these, like, streets and the darkness and these little lights poking through the darkness.

And that was what I was actually, before you said it.

I was feeling loneliness from this picture.

And it is sort of an interesting sort of dichotomy where there's obviously a lot of people because you have to have all these structures to house all these, these people.

And it does feel lonely.

But sex, which is a very intimate thing, is outside, you know, like, that's what's lit up, you know, it's like, oh, gosh, you know.

Yeah.

So it is a.

It's a cool.

It's definitely a cool image.

And I guess it's got, you know, it's hard to get around when you do something where it looks a little futuristic and stuff like that.

Yeah, there's elements.

There will always be elements of some kind of Blade Runners thing in anything.

Because what, what Sydney created and Ridley Scott created with that was just like.

It sort of set the tone for a very long time, you know?

Yeah.

You know, that whole utopian dream, like with Star Trek, that everything is going to be beautiful and money doesn't exist.

Nah, it's going to be terrible.

You know, it's not very optimistic.

No.

Hey, hey, man, I'm, I'm, I'm not, I'm not saying I'm Mr. Optimistic, but I like to do things that, that I always try to do something that people can relate to beyond the product, if you know what I mean?

Like, it's like.

And also, if you, if you do a book cover, you have to do something that it sort of sells the book, it promotes it, and it shows you what kind of story it is, but without giving it away.

Right.

And sometimes that I always think of all these things when, when, when I, when I do these things.

Because you, you.

You know, it's like the Great Gatsby.

F. Scott Fitzgerald.

The Great Gatsby.

It's, like, lauded as one of the greatest novels ever written.

The COVID for that book is, like, iconic now.

Right.

But even then, it was like a very, very.

It's this blue, like this blue color, and those two eyes, this woman's eyes, and we see, you know, the distance and the light beam, and it's very simple.

And it doesn't.

You, like, when you look at it, you.

You're not going to have any idea what the story is really.

But once you have read the book, that cover suddenly means a lot more.

Right.

And it's weird because I was reading about it not too long ago.

The artist who did that cover apparently only did that one book cover ever.

I mean, what the hell are the odds, right?

That's fascinating.

Yeah, I know.

So, but, so, but this again, also comes back to what, What I said earlier with opening yourself up to suggestion because, you know, but.

Because you don't want to.

You don't want to give people answers to everything.

I think that's when.

When things become, like, a little too on the nose and the message is a little too cut and dry.

No matter how beautiful it's executed, it's sort of like.

Yeah.

You know, there has to have.

There's got to be something in there that, like, I don't know, makes you think or makes you sad or makes you happy or it, it has to be a combination of several emotions, I think, to fully work.

Yeah, I agree with that.

I think it's.

I think sometimes, you know, you know, the, the, you know, they say, like, in music, it's the notes you don't play.

Yeah.

Or where you leave space.

And I think sometimes in poetry, it's like, you know, if.

If you spelled it all out, it wouldn't be poetry.

It would be, you know, a manual.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

So there is something about art and leaving room for interpretation.

Yeah.

But isn't that also.

Isn't that also that old?

I guess that goes in music, too.

Like when people often ask, like, how do you know when it's done?

Right.

Especially if it's, like, visually and there's.

It's very detailed and it's very complex, then people are like, how do you know when it's done?

Right.

And that's a good question.

Because something is only done when you're able to hold something back.

You know, you don't want to give everything because then it's over.

Right, yeah.

So at some point, you.

You have to.

You have to stop.

But when is that?

For me, it's usually when I work so long that I sneeze 10 times in a row and my body is telling me, okay, we're done here.

Your body tells you.

Yeah, you have some sort of visceral reaction, like an allergic reaction to continuing to work immediately.

Like, suddenly, I'm sick.

I'm like, okay, that's it.

We're done.

I. I actually have developed sort of a technique to.

I feel like there is something about art where it's like when you say you open yourself up and you just let it flow.

Like whatever comes to you, you let it flow out.

I think that that's really.

I think that's the sort of the essence of art.

Because if you.

You can.

I think people should do some explicit preparation to create art, Whether it's life experience or it's practicing the art or it's, you know, purposefully taking some sort of input in so that you have something inside of you to come out to that will filter through you.

But when you're making the art, I feel like you have to just shut that off and just make something that.

With the feeling.

And then it's not up to you whether it's done or not, in a sense, and it's not up to you whether it's good or not.

Also, it's just up to you to just get the process right of like, okay, I'm just gonna make.

I've prepared as all I can, but then I just have to get this feeling out into whatever I'm making.

Yeah.

So.

No, I agree.

So this one's very similar to the first one.

It's definitely a cityscape, but this is more like a, you know, like a midtown, a sort of, you know.

But talk briefly about this one.

So this was.

This is back to when.

When I was working at the animation studio.

I. I lived in Brooklyn, so every day I took the L train, you know, and then I took it to, what, 34th or something.

And then I walked a couple of blocks up to the studio.

Right.

Oh, where was the studio?

The studio had moved from Brooklyn to Manhattan.

Yeah.

And it was on 54th street or something.

This is.

That I worked on in the 50s.

And this is all very much like, you know, Grand Central.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah, that sort of area.

There's some of these.

I. I feel like this architecture is very reminiscent of buildings that I've seen a million times.

Yeah.

And the thing is, I really love that's one thing I love about New York.

Those corridors that connect.

You know, there's just something like, great about it because it's almost like in your mind you visualize like in some kind of crazy noir style movie or whatever, that there would be a gunfight on one of those, or running back and forth, forth.

And like, I mean, it's just, it's dynamic and it's, it's sort of exciting, you know, and it's all this gothic sort of style that it's built.

It's very, very like strong, robust.

But when you're on the street in New York and you're always looking up and it's like, it feels like it just goes on forever.

Right?

So I guess my, my, my, my initial thought for this painting was, well, it's kind of like a city that goes on forever in all directions, you know, up, sideways, out, like.

Because there's no end to it wherever you look.

Right?

Yeah.

And then I have all these, like.

What I always do is I, I create all these, like, for, you know, that, that taxi cab, that's like a monster truck or whatever that I also used in the other one.

That yellow car right there.

This guy.

Yeah.

Obviously there are no caps like that, but it's like when that's a part of it, it's like all the neon, all the old sort of the noir themes of it.

The thing that something just goes on forever in all directions and cars are these like insane sort of monster truck cabs that can just like, if it wanted to, it could just like go straight over another car, you know, and if you ever lived in New York City, you know, the cab drivers are nuts.

And like, they literally do not care.

Like they'll, hey, I'm driving here.

You know.

So.

Yeah.

What I like about this one.

And actually, so I.

When you mentioned Blade Runner and then we were looking at the other image, I was thinking noir.

And I didn't mention it out loud because it was very noir, the whole thing.

But now that you're saying that this goes on forever and I'm noticing like, I did notice all these.

This like, continuation of the theme of this.

This bridge was, was continued all throughout.

But one interesting thing is that from the, from the vantage point of the person who's looking, there's fire here, there's darkness here, but in the distance there's light.

Right.

You know, something interesting about that where it's like the city is like.

I feel like the city treats you that way.

You know what I mean?

Well, also it would signify.

Because if there's light out way out in the horizon out there, it sort of signifies or it sort of implies that there must be an end to this madness.

Right.

Yeah.

Yes.

It's very interesting.

I like.

You know, one of the songs is called Hope, the song I sent you.

Yeah.

And if any of these images feel like hope to me.

Mm.

It's kind of like this where it's dark where you are, but the city is like that.

The city is like.

Yes, it's grimy, but it's like, it's.

But there's, There's.

If the city promises something, not everyone gets it.

In fact, most people don't.

You know, they don't get the promise.

I'm just looking to see which one we talk about next.

Let's talk about this one next.

Because this is also just going along the theme of the city.

And this is very Brooklyn.

Like, these water towers are so Brooklyn.

Yeah.

And that's another thing.

Like, if you come from another country, like I do, we don't have water towers like that.

So immediately you start focusing and.

Or I do.

I get very drawn to things that.

That is unfamiliar.

Right.

I'm very much person who doesn't, like, unlike a lot of other people in New York, for instance, who has very set patterns, like they'll go to the same coffee shop every morning to get that cup of coffee before they go to work.

I'm the exact opposite.

Like, I, I, I don't really have patterns and I don't follow.

I, I try not to follow any patterns, really, if I can avoid it, because it.

You just end up in situations that are.

That you've never.

That, that otherwise you would never see or experience, that could be good and that could be bad.

But, but in terms of.

So stylistically and in terms of putting together imagery like this, again, there's a ton of photographs that I took and all kinds of weird, you know, signs and all kinds of stuff that doesn't really belong together, but then has this rundown, sort of weird world where it's a mix of industrial that's definitely not habitable.

And then buildings were, you know, obviously people live.

And then all these zeppelins of various kinds.

I've always loved Zeppelins.

Like, I literally.

I love zeppelins.

The other day, I stepped out on our balcony and there was like, this enormous zeppelin in front of literally outside.

I almost fell off the balcony.

Whoa.

I love that.

Yeah.

But.

But so again, it's like this is one of those where there's only one Person in the.

In the image, like the blue one again, that woman in the red dress, which now that I think.

I mean, I. I forgotten about that.

But that appears to be some sort of theme, I guess.

Yeah.

Throughout several of these.

Yeah.

The zeppelins are a theme.

And so is this like the one lady.

Yeah, yeah.

And you just wonder like, what the hell is she doing there?

What is she thinking about, you know?

Yeah.

Hold on.

So let's pick the next one.

I want to leave that one for last here.

So this is also a cityscape in a sense.

This is just bonkers.

Yeah, I like this.

I like this.

I mean, it's like, there's.

This is like.

Reminds me.

This is a Japanese plane, right.

Godzilla is a Japanese character.

This is very, you know, Asian inspired.

This bottom bit, which is cool.

And this could even be an Asian city, right?

Yeah, yeah.

It's like Tokyo.

And this is a famous temple, actually a garden in Kyoto, I think it is.

But again, so I, I stitch all kinds of things together and then I paint around it and on top of it.

And like, this is.

This was actually done before all the other ones we're talking about.

So this one is kind of like.

This was one of the first, I think, images I ever did digitally where I felt that things were coming together for me in a way where I could suddenly do things that I would not be able to do normally, like analog painting.

Like, there's.

There's so many, like different layers and opacities and filters and textures and just all kinds of stuff, you know?

And, and yeah, you're right.

It's so.

It's like kind of like a silly.

You know, I've always loved the Godzilla movies and like all that.

I love.

I'm actually like, drawn to a lot of like, manga and I love all the old.

The crazy Godzilla movies and, and Ultraman and like all that stuff, like, crazy.

It's just like.

It's so wacky.

It's so out there and I love it.

And so this was sort of by like.

Okay, I want to do, you know, an image where all of that sort of comes together and I.

At some point I had a.

Somebody buy a poster of that, like a really big print.

And I was actually like, I. I couldn't believe it.

The.

The.

The detail in this is just like mind blowing.

The.

The pond and the fish and the.

All of it.

You can't really see it like this, but yeah, so it's like one of those.

Again, like, the bigger it is, the.

Crazier it's really fun.

But you know what it reminds me of, actually?

A postcard.

Yeah, I think this would be an amazing postcard in Kyoto.

Yeah, well, you know.

Yeah, it's actually, it was funny because some of these, I had prints made, like, fairly large, like, prints.

Nice.

Very nice.

Done.

Yeah.

And I was invited to come to the Mocha Art Festival in New York.

And I, I, I sold a lot of these prints there.

I mean, people really dug them.

Yeah.

And that's the first time where I was like, huh, that's weird, because I basically did those for myself, you know.

I wouldn't mind having some of these in prints.

They're so fun.

Yeah, they are fun.

Yeah.

But also pretty disturbing among the.

Yeah.

Okay, so here's an.

Let's talk about this one again.

What's.

This is actually what.

I wondered.

What, what is.

Oh, this is actually the light coming up.

Right.

This bit right here.

Yeah.

It's some kind of projection, I guess, of.

Yeah, Yeah.

I was reminded, I thought that was in like a UFO or something at first.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I think this is.

So where the other ones are more like sort of almost like this is more sort of a cross between 20s, like, kind of art deco, but steampunk, sort of like again, missing mashing, like sort of different eras together in something where it's like retro future Rhystic, I guess.

Where do you get these ladies from?

Oh, that was a.

That one was from a fashion magazine or something.

And then I, I just changed.

I just like the pose.

Right.

Yeah.

So then I changed her clothing and her face and her hair.

Yeah, but I like the pose.

Yeah.

And then I love dogs, but.

And I specifically love dalmatians.

Like, I guess it's like one of those things that the pattern, it's the simplicity of it, and it's just beautiful.

Yeah.

Cool.

Okay, so we have a few more.

We have just two more left, I think.

So this one actually.

This is hilarious because you posted this, I think when I started asking you about your art again.

Yeah.

I think you went through it and you're like, hey, look at this.

I made, I made this a while back, and I think you posted it on social media somewhere and you said, this is all.

These are all my fears.

Yeah, I know, I know, I know.

I was laughing at that.

No, it's like, it's terrible.

I mean, it's, I'm sort of horrified by.

Because I've always, I've always thought, like, in general, carnies, circus clowns, all of that, like, is, Is just like, it's it freaks me out, you know?

Yeah.

I'd rather be like in a room with cobras or something than at a carnival.

I'd rather deal with a cobra than a car.

Yeah.

I don't know, but it's like, know.

And then there's something about the whole abandoned, lonely, sort of desperate.

Everything is like flooded.

Is everyone dead?

Like, what's going on?

And this omn sort of light to it.

Why is it in the middle of the ocean?

Is it flooded?

Like it.

What's.

What's.

I don't know.

What's that, you know?

Yeah.

You know, actually, I hadn't even thought of this as being like a biblical thing, but.

Yeah, now I am.

Yeah.

But it's also like.

It's an amusement park.

So it's supposed to be something positive, right?

It's supposed to have all this life and happiness and kids playing and the merry go rounds and like all of that.

Instead it's this horrific, like, image to me that was just like.

When I found it, I was like, yeah.

It'S like, you know, it reminds me of the song Tears of a Clown by Smokey Robinson.

Yeah, yeah.

But instead of Tears of a Clown, it's like the clown is God, right?

And God just kept crying and crying until the circus was no more, you know, that's.

That's what I'm taking away from this now.

And it's sunsetting.

This is like the sunset on the human race, you know?

You know?

Yeah, yeah, that's true.

That suddenly reminded me when you were quoting that song, remember that other song, Roy Orbison, the candy colored clown they call the can the sandman.

And I do not know that.

What is he saying here?

Exactly?

Like, it's.

And it's this beautiful song, but it's like that.

That lyric is just like, whoa.

You know that.

That just sounds really dark.

It is like super dark.

Like, only Roy Orbison could be like dark in a very strange way.

Yeah.

Cool.

I don't know if I have any more to say about this one.

This is a. I love.

The only thing I'll also add is that just.

Just this, this.

The image of the ocean is really beautiful.

Like the way I just like the texture of it.

Yeah, it's because the water is black.

You know, it's very.

There's just always something about water that's freaked me out.

But, you know, because it is.

Yeah.

Like they say, only a fool does not fear the ocean.

Or is that how it goes?

Well, I don't know if that's how it goes.

But it should go that way because.

Yeah.

No, because water can be like so many.

It could be beautiful.

It could be bright blue.

It could be very still and like kind of scary looking because it's not moving.

Right.

And it could be all black and sort of it becomes like this whole.

Whole other thing, like it wants to suck you in and take you ashore.

Yeah.

It can be very destructive.

Yeah.

But it's also responsible for life.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay, so this is the last one.

And this is the one I think I want to use.

I've always liked this one a lot.

And I really like the.

I like the light.

The way the light comes in.

Yeah.

And just as we're talking now, I also like how it's like this reading room, which is almost like a sanctum, you know?

Yeah.

But it's like, you know, I guess at the bottom of the ocean or something.

So it's like.

Yeah.

You know, is it.

Is it your.

Is it your sanctum or is this like a watery grave or something?

You know, I don't know.

But anyway, I mean, it's.

Once again, without getting too like.

One thing I've always been very fond of in fine art is symbolism.

Right.

I like symbolism because of the sheer.

Like again, when you open yourself up to suggestion, it's like you put in a lot of suggestive things.

You don't need to over explain things.

Things can sit.

You know, things can symbolize all kinds of things that you.

That really the viewer doesn't either know about or understand at that point in time.

But later, maybe years later, suddenly they'll see something and go, huh, I never thought about that.

That's kind of crazy with.

With.

And then they'll put it in context to something that maybe happened recently or something that, you know, so it becomes sort of a more timeless.

And this one in particular is like.

Because it doesn't have any people in it, Right.

Suddenly everything, when there's no people and something is just like empty like this.

But there's all these traces of people here, Right.

So it's like, what.

Why are all those piles of books they're doing?

Why is the piano there?

Why is all those little.

Little cars all over the place?

Right.

Wait, little?

Oh, yeah.

So I hadn't even noticed that there's a little car here.

Yeah, they're all over the place.

Like, funny.

Almost like children were playing.

Yeah.

But they're like oversized, like it's some sort of man child who lives down there.

That should be the name of my album, Man Child.

Yeah, that's a good one.

But see, also, it's like this.

It's got kind of like this crazy rug.

All these patterns, all these lights, repetition and stuff.

But it's underwater.

The symbolism of it, it.

It always suggests something subconscious when it's underwater.

It's like.

Like you're dealing with something deep in your subconscious and everything has a meaning.

It's almost like your dream.

You're analyzing the dream, right?

Trying to analyze what.

What is going on.

There's all these things that suggest things like, what's that dartboard doing there?

Why is that red phone there?

Like, usually when you have a red phone, you know that like, you see movies, it's like you only have a red phone if it's an emergency, right?

Like, why else would you have a red phone?

Like, you only use that when hits the fan or something is not right.

Have an emergency.

But otherwise it's.

It's sort of very tranquil and relaxed.

And I like the shimmering of the light and the.

But also, why are there sharks?

And is this.

Is this a single sort of solitary construction under the water?

And when you look up, you see there's sort of a whole city going on up there.

Yeah, I was wondering what that was.

So.

Yeah.

Okay, so that is a city.

It's definitely structures of some kind, right.

Whether they're built underwater for whatever purpose or if they were there before and then the whole thing got flooded, I don't know.

But the fact is that it's there.

Right, so.

And which would indicate that there is more.

More people than just whoever happens to be inhabiting this room.

Right.

But ironically, I was happy you chose this one because this was the.

Like, literally this picture was the first picture that I gave my now wife.

Did I tell you that?

You did tell me that.

Okay.

It's like we.

I'm not going to get into the details, but we woke up together one day in Brooklyn.

And when she.

She didn't live in New York at the time, but on the way out the door, since I have these prints made for.

For the Mocha Art Festival or whatever, I gave her this specific one and drew a little hard on.

Right.

And so this.

This has always been sort of a very special picture in that regard because she.

She's always had it wherever she was and wanted it up on the wall.

It's one of those things like when you're like me and you.

You have a sort of big output and you do a lot of different stuff.

I don't really have my own work on the walls.

Because I tend to just sort of focus on something and look at it and be like, ah, I should have done that differently, and this doesn't work.

Or why.

Oh, my God, what was I thinking?

So it's like, you know, but this is one of those that, for her, I know, has special significance.

And I think it's very cool that you.

You're going to use that one.

Why did you choose this one?

You know, I think when we made the first album, yeah, it was a lot of trekking around in Brooklyn, and we were going to a rehearsal studio in Brooklyn, in Manhattan, and I was picking up my drummer and he was in Brooklyn, and we were meeting, and it was very.

It was just an urban experience.

Yeah.

And I feel like.

And the album is kind of a little bit rough.

You know, it's.

I've only heard your.

I've only heard that one song you sent me.

And I was.

I was very, very surprised by it because I.

Like you said, I've known you for a long time, but it's not like the.

Saw each other all the time or had brunch every freaking Sunday, you know, it's like.

Right.

But I would show up to your concerts and have some fun and, like, show support and.

But also I can hear that this new song that you sent me, it is very different in many ways.

And.

And I. I really, really liked it.

So it's like, also, it's like a new direction for you.

Maybe a little bit.

Yeah, this.

This album is going to be a bit darker.

Yeah.

And a bit more introspective, I think, than the first album.

So this feels to me like.

I don't know.

You know, it's just like I go on my gut, I guess.

And, you know, honestly, I don't mind telling you this, but I feel like the first album is definitely like a first album.

And it is rough in all the ways that a first album is rough, but it's also a very sincere sort of output.

And so there's something about it to me.

And then your album cover just feels like it matches so well.

And I could not be more grateful that you let us use that album cover for that, because just the whole feeling, the whole picture, you know, it just feels like, oh, my God, it's like this is an artistic statement, you know, and so the same way with this, I feel like if I want to put something out into the world, I want whatever's visually representing it to be something that is also like some kind of statement that feels a certain way and looks a certain way.

I don't want to just have something that's sort of like, you know, just blase.

I want the album cover itself to be art, you know, and to me, this feels more like solitary.

Stoic.

Yeah, but, you know, like the fact that it's.

I don't know, like there's something about the light, the way the light pokes in.

I don't know.

A lot of your artwork, especially these ones that we've just gone through tonight, they're the types of pictures that you can just kind of look at for a really long time because there's so much going on.

But they're also very moody, you know.

And this one I like a lot, so much, because the other ones that were urban, I thought, oh, why don't I use another urban one?

Because the first one was urban.

But I feel like I'm about to move upstate to upstate New York.

I lived upstate when I was in college.

It was more of a collegiate thing.

I've become more of like a stoic person.

To me, like a reading room is sort of like this stoic thing in a way, and it just feels kind of like.

And, and I don't know, you know, like this asks more questions that it answers and I like that.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

There's one aspect I haven't even gotten into, but if you, if you're an illustrator and you've been doing what I've been doing for so long, one of the side benefits of creating artwork like this and illustrating all these things is that it's a very solitary thing to do.

To begin with, it's like if you're a writer, right?

Like it's a one man operation where like, you literally are just in your own head, right?

And everything comes from there.

So what happens often is you, you tend to sort of just put on your, your headphones, right?

And like literally in a year, if you were to sit and, and draw on a, on a regular basis, right?

Every day, a number of hours, six hours, eight hours, whatever.

In a year, suddenly you will have heard while you're creating all this, you will have listened to the, like, collected works of the Beatles and the Rolling Stones and on audiobooks, you would have heard the collected works of like, William Shakespeare and, you know, I don't know, whoever, right?

Like something you wouldn't normally do.

Like, who sits and reads collected works of Shakespeare these days, right?

But it's like you, if you're already doing something, it's nice to have and it's read by Jack, you know, Jeremy Irons or.

Or somebody with a good voice.

And suddenly it's like you're listening to all these stories, and all the music that you're listening to sort of seeps into what you're doing.

You know, music for me is like, I'm a huge music buff, you know, but I use music in for different purposes when I work.

Like, there are certain types of work where there's certain types of music that I would definitely not put on, if you know what I mean.

It's sort of like you use music a lot, like, to get in a certain kind of mood.

Right.

And that's what you're talking about, like, with your new.

New album, your.

Your new music, that mood, or.

Because it's more of a mood than.

Than a style, really.

Right.

And that's going to set the tone for the whole thing, basically.

Yeah, I. I totally agree.

In fact, the more I look at this picture, the more I want to make the music match, you know, and they're not recorded yet, most of it, so it's like, you know, this is an opportunity to sort of, like, have a vision and make it consistent, you know?

Well, there's also something about this picture.

I mean, now that I look at it like this, because, like you said, it was done a long time ago, but there's something very playful about it because even though there's nobody there, it's.

It's definitely a place that I would feel comfortable myself.

Right.

Surrounded by books, pleasant lighting.

There's all these things, toys, the piano.

You know, everything is significant in some way or another.

And then, you know, the only thing that's really moving is the light.

Right.

And I've always been fascinated with the way that light penetrates water and the way it dances sort of on the bottom of a pool or something.

Right.

So there's.

So there's something very playful about it that I think maybe is a.

Something that's a part of your process right now, where you're at.

Because you're making decisions.

You're.

You're.

You've already thought about it a lot.

You're writing, you're coming up with things.

So you're basically inventing, right?

Yeah, I think, you know, just what you said about looking at this image and thinking this is someplace where you would feel comfortable or safe or something, I think that maybe that's what feels.

That's how it feels to me, you know?

Yeah.

It's sort of like, oh, I would like to be in this room.

I Would like to sit in one of those chairs or even just lay on the floor, you know, and read a book.

Read one of those and grab one of those books.

Yeah.

And just, you know, it's like.

It really is sort of like a sanctuary.

It is, very much.

But it's.

Let's.

Let's be honest.

It's the rug.

It's the rug.

Hide the room together, man.

Yeah.

Yeah.

This is really an interior design project.

Yeah, it is.

No, but it's also, like, one of those things, like, when I look at it now, it's like these.

There's all these, like, expensive, rare, like, books.

Right, right.

But it's also a playroom.

It's like, why would you have a dart board, like, if you were hitting a first edition of, like, some really rare book?

Right?

No, but there's something like.

No, it's some.

It's kind of loose in a way.

Right.

Yeah.

Where.

And where are all these, like, corridors?

Where.

Where are they leading to?

You know, so there's.

There's a level of eccentricity to it.

There is, yeah.

Yeah.

Like, some.

Some really, like, mad genius decided to build this, like, mahogany.

The gilded mahogany reading room at the bottom of the ocean.

It's almost like if it was a Bond movie.

It's like, would it be the villain or would it be in his own.

Yeah, right.

You can't tell.

I.

That's exactly it.

You can't tell if who uses this space because it could be.

Yeah.

I'm sort of picturing like, some sort of eccentric genius, like, you know, billionaire.

But that person is potentially, you know, their morality or their ethics are dubious, you know?

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Okay.

So we've been on the phone for.

We've been on this.

Not even a phone.

It's zoom.

But we've been on for a long time, so I think we should quit.

Yeah.

But I think we did a lot of really good work today, and I think that.

Oh, my God, Every time I say something, my phone thinks I'm talking to it.

So I. I really want to thank you so much for coming on the show.

First of all.

Thank you for having me.

Yeah.

This has been like a.

So I love doing this.

It's so fun.

And I love hearing and actually, just I wanted to tell you before.

I love seeing your face.

We been talking on the phone a lot, but I haven't seen you since.

You know, I don't know.

It's been since, like, 15 years, almost like.

Or.

No, actually, it's.

I saw you in Oklahoma.

I saw you for the high school reunion.

So when was that?

But that might have been.

That's a long time ago, too.

It was probably before Elizabeth was born, so.

Yeah, probably 13, 14, 15 years ago.

And that was weird.

That was like you and I were the only ones not packing heat at that.

Who said I wasn't?

Well, you can tell me that now.

No, I wasn't.

Of course not.

But that was a very.

That was an experience for sure.

Yeah, that sure was.

Oh, man.

So, Thomas.

Well, here's what we're going to do.

I am going to.

Let's get all your.

After the show, you know, whatever, at your convenience, because this is not going to come out for weeks.

It takes me a while to get stuff out.

Just send me all your links.

I'm going to start promoting all your stuff.

Get people familiar with you so that when this comes out, people say, oh, that's the guy.

He's been talking about, you know, for weeks.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Thank you.

But you know what.

What's your.

What's your website?

One more time.

I'm just gonna send it.

It's called.

It's just a Thomas Warming Blog spot.

Yeah.

Okay.

Cool.

All right, man.

Wonderful.

Thank you so much again for doing it.

Thanks for being on the show.

Thanks for telling us your story.

Yeah, I hope it wasn't too boring.

Oh, it was.

It was awesome.

And I think that it's like, I never thought that having a show like this would be so rewarding, but I'm not kidding with you.

When you're telling your story as a human being, it's so important for people to hear other people's stories, especially in the arts.

Yeah.

I actually am moved to tears, nearly to tears when I'm on the show.

Literally, just like, you know, like 40 minutes ago, while you were telling your story, I'm literally sitting here, like, feeling like I'm tearing up because we're artists and we're telling our stories and, you know, and we're.

We're putting something out into the world that maybe no one will watch it, maybe no one will listen to this album.

You know what I mean?

But that's not the point.

You know what I mean?

No, no, no, no.

It's not.

This is a human thing.

This is what human beings do, and we do it, and there's meaning.

You know, it creates meaning.

Yeah.

And I'm sure I would feel the same way if I wasn't from Denmark.

We don't have emotion.

We don't even have tear docs.

It's like.

Yeah, no.

Okay, good.

You have to.

You have to have emotion and put a lot of your emotion into whatever it is you do.

Otherwise you're not going to get a reaction from anybody.

You know, I think that's really what it comes down to, right?

Yeah, absolutely.

Well, thank you, Keith.

Thanks, dude.

I shouldn't have been nervous.

It wasn't that bad.

It's a.

This is so fun, isn't it?

Yeah, it was.

We'll do it again sometime.

We definitely should.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I look forward to really, like, hearing more where your whole music now is going.

Okay, well, the next song is going to be.

The next song is going to be the B side to the first track, and it's going to be sort of like foxy lady meets I want you.

She's so heavy.

I'm in.

So those are two of my go to songs.

Yeah.

So that's what.

That's kind of the.

The vibe for it, but I.

It's gonna be maybe a little bit more indie rock than that.

I probably.

But, like, we're gonna go for that.

That's the vibe I told my producer that we're going for.

Well, that's exciting.

We'll see if we're successful.

You know it.

Well, I'll be your test audience.

I'm here.

You can always get my impression.

Yeah.

Great.

Thanks, man.

All right, dude.

Yes.

Thank you, man.

Evening.

I'll talk to you soon.

You too.

Have a good one.

Bye.