And we have a choice. And it's aligning your money with what's most important. You understand who's important, what's important, and then using your money to to, to align with that. That's where true happiness comes in.

What if financial freedom isn't about chasing more but choosing better? In today's episode of Seek Go Create the Leadership journey. I sit down with Dr. Nicholas e Michaels, author of Rich by Choice, elite wealth strategist, and former professional basketball player from growing up in a trailer park to turning down an $8 million deal to preserve his values. Nick's story is one of grit, faith, and purpose-driven leadership. We'll explore how he helps families build wealth with peace, not pressure, and why financial clarity is one of the most powerful forms of leadership. Let's dive in. Dr. Nicholas e. Michaels welcome to Seek Go Create.

Hey, thank you. I'm glad to be here. I'm glad to discuss critical elements of success not just with money but in life. So thank you.

Yeah, we're gonna have fun. for those that are watching, for those listening in, you can't see this, but he's got two monitors behind him, his book and shelves, and you got financial charts going, man, you've, you've got things going on there. Man, that looks good.

I could

behind.

I, every, all this is designed by somebody else. I know. my goodness. My office too. My wife and our team, they run the show.

I, I'm the same way. I'm in my studio in the corporate house I stay in when I come to Atlanta and I'm more used to being in my rv. That's where 300 or so, out of our 330 something episodes were recorded. I'm either in the passenger seat or there, so little bit out of outta sorts here, but I believe we're gonna make it work. It's gonna be a fun conversation. So let's dive in. First question, would you rather answer what do you do or who are you? Pick it and start answering.

Absolutely. You know, I would, I would. Dive into who am I? you know, and really understand who am I? You, you understand my past. I mean, I wanna take you back to, to my childhood. That's where it all started. And I mean, Tim, have you ever had one of those moments that completely changed your life? you know, I was 10 years old. summer of 1996. I was a middle of four wild and active boys. I mean, it was fun. My dad was an entrepreneur, owned several businesses. My mom stay-at-home, mom. I mean, we were blessed. We were lucky, to be honest with you. I didn't even know what money was. I just knew, hey, things were good. we had a good life. But then it happened, and I remember it like it was yesterday. I mean, I was in my room, I had my room filled with sports posters, baseball cards, and ES, ESPN on the tv. And my mom walked in and, you know, she looks worried and she puts her arm around me and she says, your dad and I are getting divorced. And you know, Tim, those words shattered my childhood. because it seemed like overnight my mom went from a stay at home mom of four boys to a single mom of four boys working three jobs just to survive. And things weren't great for my dad. He struggled. I mean, as you can imagine, our entire lives changed. security vanished, disappeared. Any type of certainty, collapsed. It was at a very early age that I quickly realized how much money greatly influences your life. And you have a choice either for good for bad. I mean, that we had a big house to a small house. I mean that, that good life I was telling you about, like, I just realized the good life to my mom saying things like, Hey, go get all loose change of money around the house 'cause we're gonna need it. And, this is why I love being here today, because it wasn't the stuff that hurt the most. it really wasn't, it wasn't the important thing. what hurt the most. Was watching the physical and emotional pain and toll that it took on my mom and my brothers. And, you know, to understand who I am, you understand why I do what I do because like, you know, I care about you. I don't want you or any member of your family to have to go through that. 'cause we lived it. And, you know, it lit a fire in me. I wanted to read everything, to understand everything. That way I could build, I could grow and I could protect. And so, um, w you know, understand why do I do and who I am is, yes, I'm a man of faith. I'm a father, I'm a husband, and I really enjoy helping people become rich with money. But I get more excited about, other riches in life. Whether it be faith and relationships, creating exciting experiences with loved ones, but then also protecting those riches to where no matter what happens in this world, 'cause this world gets crazy from time to time, that you can have confidence in your future, but it's even more fulfilling is confidence in your family's future.

Hmm.

that would be my answer

Well what's interesting, yeah, and there's a lot there. 'cause I'm gonna, I wanna dig into some of those things. you know, the first thing that popped in my head when you were saying that, I think you mentioned you were the middle child.

Mm-hmm.

And I, I'm always intrigued. First of all, the background stories are powerful because I think most people can point to some event in life that is impacted and it's very crystal clear. You said 1996, you were 10 years old. you remembered where you are. You probably remember the smells in the room and the feeling you had and things like that. 10 years old is a pretty interesting time for us too. you don't have to go through all that went through them, but I'm curious about your siblings.

Mm-hmm.

What you, you were probably concerned about yourself during that time. I'm not saying you were selfish, but you were self preserving, but tell me a little bit about how their lives have unfolded with what you can, because I'm curious about how same situation, same thing that went on. Different people respond in different ways.

A absolutely. I was the middle youngest. So I was third in line. And to be honest, what I remember, it's just shock, there's nothing wrong with different levels of wealth on where you live. I have a buddy, he goes to Africa and he has a mission trip there. It's a wonderful experience. And he said the kids, there are the happiest go lucky kids in the world. you just bring a soccer ball or anything. they're so happy 'cause they don't know what they don't know.

I.

But when you go from a certain level and then it seems like overnight in a different lifestyle, then you quickly realize of. You know, a what you had and then what you don't have. And so I think the, the real emotion was, was shock. But I'll say this, my brothers are extraordinary men. You could say I'm the weekly in the family. I really mean that. They're great husbands, they're great fathers. They're present. They're trying, I mean, really, I mean, they, it's actually a very, and I told my mom all the time, like, you know, and, and I get to tell my mom this all the time. She's my, she's a client, she's my favorite client. and I love all of my clients that I work with 'cause they're like family. But, you know, special is knowing what my mom went through to go, I can say, Hey mom, you never have to worry again. You know how special that is. But her greatest asset is that she's got four boys, all have degrees, all are successful, never been divorced. great father's like, it's amazing. And. asked her how she did it, and she leaves off with, you know, Nick, a lot of prayer. I was thinking all the four rowdy boys you can imagine, she's my mom's tough. so talking about how my brothers responded, it's incredible. they really are. to be honest with you, I wrote a book about money and finance and life. I'm still trying to figure out the secret sauce to how my mom went. Four for four. I really, and I don't have that answer. I don't, except for God. And, know,

Yeah,

mother's

I mean, because that's the most intriguing, not the most intriguing thing, but I think that if we could peel away that secret, let's just be truthful here many times when there's that situation, you know, you're 10 years old, I'm guessing you had a couple that were older, so probably, you know, 12, 14, 16 years old, something like that,

Yes,

you know,

Mm-hmm.

All kind of critical ages in development and for all of them to be functioning and for nobody to kind of rebel and say, you know what, I'm, I'm just ticked at the world. Or, you know, relationships become a challenge and all of that. That's, that's quite miraculous. Tell me more about your mother.

Yo. Yeah, she, she's tough. I mean, but you know, and I think I see this and even having more appreciation because I'm a father, I have four kiddos, and, and I'm super fortunate. There is zero chance. I mean, I pray this never happens to be a single parent, like my heart and hat go off to single parents all around the world. Like what you do. If you're a single parent listening right now or watching God bless you, you're incredible. Like, I really mean this all my heart. I don't know how you do it. It's amazing. 'cause I appreciate my mom even more now that I'm older with the family. I don't, I don't know what I would do. I mean it's amazing. it all turned out good, but it doesn't mean that there weren't bumps along the way. I saw my brothers change and go through some struggles afterwards, whether it be confidence in who they are, their identity, trying to, find out, because that's tough on a kid when you can wear certain clothes and have a certain lifestyle to now not, I mean, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but that impacts a kid's psyche of confidence and where they fit in, and having to overcome that. so it absolutely went through our struggles and hardships. But I'm telling you what, As of right now, it's a success story. I really mean it. I am the weak link between the four boys. my brothers, they're good dudes.

so you mentioned prayer. So what was the faith, what was the faith component like in the household? And, when there's a divorce and, and I believe, were you in the south, were you in the Texas area growing up?

Mm-hmm.

You know, sometimes when there's divorce situations in the Bible belt, there's quite a bit of, let's just go and say judgment that can be thrown on, thrown on people. I mean, did, was there an ostracize ostracization or be, were y'all ostracized put out? You know what I mean? What, what was that like, uh, coming along too?

that is a really good question. In fact, I should have brought this up, piggyback on what you're saying is I really didn't see the statistics of divorced children until about seven years ago. And you hit the nail on the head earlier, like when it comes to alcohol abuse, drugs, things like that of divorced, kiddos. It was eye-popping like you talked about. We, you know, and so you're right for, to, to go through that. but no, I wouldn't say, and you know, again, I was 10 years old, so there's probably a lot that I didn't see that maybe my mother hid from me or protected, sheltered us from. but there were, you know, a, a little bit of that, but also too, it could have been a thing like we didn't have the finances to do some of the things and be involved into the things that we used to. So it could have been a mixed bag of a lot of what you're talking about. But also too, when life changes like that, you know, your Wednesday evenings, your Saturday evenings, your quote unquote family gatherings get togethers. They completely change.

so was, y'all involved with a church or faith? Community at all. what was that like? I'm trying to understand what happened with 10-year-old, Nick, that then later led him to the financial success and also the financial teaching and all. Because I, I, I think, and we'll, we'll get into your relationship with money shortly. I think later we're gonna have a fun conversation just about faith and money and things like that.

Mm-hmm.

what was your recollection of, faith or God or anything like that? Because it's easy for that to be impacted when you go through that. The times that you did.

I would absolutely say that absolutely a huge factor in us boys turning out well, because my mom did a wonderful job of keeping us active in the church, constantly Wednesdays, Sundays, youth groups, mission trips. I remember going on a couple mission trips that really, kept things in perspective. 'cause even though we were going through a tough time when you go different places around the world, we were still incredibly blessed. if you live in the United States of America today, I know that nothing's perfect, but we're lucky. look at different places around the world. And so I think my mom keeping us active in the church and surrounding us with, good pillars of strength really helped us as well.

Yeah, that's good. And then all that starts feeding into who you become and who you are. So, I wanna connect a little bit of a dot, but I'm still in that 1996 to 98 timeframe because, you know, I read your book over the weekend, rich by Choice. And so let's go back to that 10-year-old and what were the seeds in 10-year-old Nick that was going to lead you later to write a book that had the word rich in it and that had financial, principles, tips, and things like that. What can we find out from that 10-year-old that was the beginnings of that?

Absolutely. if you look on from 10-year-old to, as Nick evolved and grew, I'd say there's a couple of key elements. One was, you know, sports, and we might get into a little more that way, but I mean, that was my escape. I mean, basketball was my escape. and when you're playing a sport that happens fast, you don't have time to think, you just react. And so anything that you're dealing with off the court was a wonderful way. But also it taught me, dedication, work ethic. But we also had to have jobs growing up when we were kids, which was wonderful. Like, I'd be up, working out in the morning, go to school all day, work out for basketball and go to work at night. And I was doing that five, six days a week. that really helps. And you, that work ethic. But also too, I'd say, you know, God wink. And what I mean by that is. God just seems to wink at us and throughout our lives. And if you look back at God winks, when you know a blessing and God just, things just happen. But it's God. You know, when I was 16 years old, I talk about this in the book. I, I worked at a golf course and it wasn't a fun job. I was, shagging golf balls, cleaning golf carts, and taking out the trash. There's nothing fun about it. I wish I was in the, pro shop giving golf tips, which I didn't. But Rex, the owner is a wonderful guy. Rex is not a typical golf course owner. He's the guy who bought a open piece of prop, like 80 acres, and he was out there with a tractor and people helping him design the golf course himself. Like that's that. You don't, he's a blue collar kind of guy and you don't see that a lot. But he taught me about money. He taught me about compound interest. he said, Hey, let's play Who wants to be a millionaire? And he showed me, literally I wasn't making, I think I was making $6 an hour. I really don't remember the exact, but it wasn't much. But he showed me by taking a certain portion away, I could have a lot of money. by the time I'm 30. And it was the first time that a light bulb went on and go, oh my goodness. You're telling me I can do this. I don't have to be a Bill Gates Junior, or, coming from a wealthy family that I can build this on my own. And it was the first time in my life that a light bulb went off and go, my goodness, I still have the power within me, that my future could be brighter than my past. And that was a god wink of, hey. as things developed, I didn't even know I wanted to go in the financial industry. Honest truth, another god wink. I had an internship, did it for several years and just so happened that a family friend was a financial advisor and I just got an internship. Just check mark the box, you know, Hey, a path of least resistance. my undergrad was actually first part psychology. Um, and then it just came back that I loved it. Math was my easy suit. I loved helping people. I saw the ripple effect, kinda like when you go and you mow your grass, you can see the fruits of your labor. Well, same thing in the financial industry when you start seeing the impact you have. And I just think all of it with my life and journey came full circle of it was God winking at me. I love it. Like, this is like college football to me. I love talking about it. So it's kind of a little bit about, you know,

Well, yeah. do you recall thinking about money much? I mean, I used to joke all the time about the, Scarlet O'Hara, moment from Gone with the Wind where she becomes poor and then, before the next. Half of the movie, she says, as God is my witness, I'll never be poor again. You know? And, uh, did you, did, did money, uh, I'll throw some words out and you could say, yeah, UR Nay. Did it consume you? Is it something you never thought about? Did you think about it from time to time? Did you say like that Scarlet O'Hare, you know, I'm not gonna be poor. What was your, what was your thought process about money as you were in your developmental years as you're, playing sports, but also starting to go to school and other things like that.

A absolutely. You know, when you go through something like that experience like I did, it does, it stays in, in the back of your mind. and it wasn't just thinking about money, but it was also like what money can do for you and what a lifestyle that you're desiring or wanting. but, but I'll be honest, I mean, my life came full circle. it really did because when I was younger, I thought it was just money. It's like, Hey, I, if I get money, then this piece and security will come back. This joy, you know, all the void of what I lost or the lifestyle I had or got to experience, I thought it was just money. But, you know, Tim, I was wrong. You know, I call it outwardly successful, but inwardly stressed. I mean, all the things I wanted to help people with, I talked about that ripple effect. when I was newly married, I, you know, success on the outside was growing. Money, assets, this or that. My happiness level wasn't going with that, you know, with as quickly as that. And so I was missing a key element. and I can, we can dive into that, but there's a lot more there. 'cause it's not just money, When I was younger, Wanting money, wanting a certain lifestyle would be in the back of my mind.

did you think that sports might be your ticket or your way out or was that just 'cause you were good and it something that just the doors kept opening up? What was I, 'cause I saw where you played pro ball over in Europe. There was also one comment that you weren't necessarily great at negotiating your contract or something like that, which then makes me wonder about the, it makes me ask another question about the money thing. But, tell me more about that.

Yeah. You know, so basketball was my way out, to be honest with you, but it wasn't my way out as in to a life of money. It was my way out of, 'cause my mom, like I said, there wasn't money there to pay for college. And that's not my mom's fault, it's just we weren't in a position like, oh my brothers, they're incredible. they put themselves through school. I mean, it's amazing. And so that was the same as me. So to be honest with you, it is either gonna be the military or athletics. And both are, in my opinion, a great option. because you can, you know, that could happen or what it looks like, kind of a long shot. and so. Yes. When, I was 21, just turned 22, you know, get an opportunity. you remember Seinfeld when Kramer gets sued over a coffee spit on coffee and they make an offer a free coffee for life and he could have gotten so much money, but he jumped up and he goes, yes, I'll take it. that was me. I was just like an opportunity to play basketball and travel the world. Yes, I'll do it. Um, I didn't, you know, because you know the whole, this is gonna be my way of life. I never really thought that it was just like another God wink. but I knew that academics could be my way out in the sense of, hey. You have basketball, you have some talent, you're getting a great blessing and opportunity that you get your college paid for. And I went to a great school, Dallas Baptist University, my undergrad to a private university, first class education. There was no way I could afford to go there if it wasn't for sports. And that place, it really changed my life. it's a wonderful place and it taught me, you know, of growing in my faith not to compartmentalize Christ and what it means for that. And so that really helped, with my spiritual growth.

Was there a time, you know, you said you grew up around church in a church situation, but I've noticed that most of us, we. Possibly piggyback on either our parents or someone else's faith for a while. And then there's a time in life where it becomes our own. And you know, some people say, oh, that's their salvation experience. I'm not totally with that theology. I think sometimes it's when we finally hit our knees, finally submit, finally surrender, whatever. And sometimes that's, a situation or something like that. When I bring that up, is there a time that comes to your mind when you go, you know what, this is when I became a follower of Christ.

Absolutely. I know it. you know, first there's two times. The first one is yes, when I willingly accepted Christ and took that step. And then the second one would be in baptism, that first act of obedience, but the one. Time that I remember with that. I doubt. I think what you're kind of talking about was when I hit my knees and this is silly, but this was a life changing moment again, is, my first two years playing college basketball or junior college, I was a little undersized coming outta high school and I was on Moody's five star, which is kind of a big recruiting thing for junior college players going on to four year universities. the thing was, I wasn't getting recruited by the schools that I thought I wanted. the schools that I thought were premier, division one schools, and for me in my world, which sounds silly now, but I was consumed by that, that was kind of my life. I gave everything to basketball and this is my goal and this is what I wanted to do it wasn't turning out. And I have a friend of mine, his name's Doug, he was my guidance counselor, he is my brother. I love him to death one night and I'm racking myself up, you know, working up again, anxiety. And he goes, Nick, have you prayed about it? And the answer was no. You know, Nick have, you know, essentially, did you turn this over to God? No, I mean all these things. I remember I got on my knees that night and I said, God, whatever you want. the very next day I got a call from, my college coach was Blake Flicker at DBU. He calls me at like eight o'clock in the morning who calls a college kid to recruit him at eight o'clock in the morning. You know, wanna be half asleep. He started talking. I fell asleep when he was on the phone. I'm not kidding. I feel so bad at that. I've never told him the story. I, but I was just, it was eight o'clock in the morning and he was telling me, I woke up. I think 10, 12 minutes later he's still talking. I would've never taken that visit, but I felt terrible that I did that. 'cause I, I would never do that. And so remember it. I was driving up on a hill 'cause DBU sits on a hill. My brother and I were driving up for the visit. 'cause I, I wasn't gonna take it. I was just doing it at a courtesy I felt this overwhelming peace that, oh my goodness, that was unique. I didn't feel a whole lot. I'm not saying God opened the heavens and spoke to me, but it was this peace in my heart, like an answered prayer. And it didn't matter what coach did, it didn't matter what he showed me. I was going to DBU and it, guess what? That was like my springboard. and I did that again, I felt that same prayer before going overseas. I said, God, if you want this to happen, I'll be a, a feather in the wind. I pulled my car on the side of the road, same thing, and I felt that peace. And so the, what you're asking is that, that moment we go to our knees and, and the thing is, I wish I could tell you that I'm this perfect Christian, and, every time I deal with a difficult situation, I turn it over to God and the answer's no 'cause I'm still hardheaded that I still have to be reminded sometimes, Hey, did you turn this over to God? You know, have you done this? And so it's all still growing, but that, it was a very pivotal point in my faith where was a, a realization, Hey, you don't have to do this on your own.

I think a lot of us, you know, you're, you're skilled, you're talented, you're good. You know, you said you were a Moody's five star, so you, Probably thought, okay, you know, I've been blessed. I've got this talent and all, plus I've been working hard, you know, shooting hoops outside, everything like that. There's also a word, I think you brought it up in your book related to finance. We'll talk about it in a little while. this aspect of control. you believe you have control. Which I think is a myth. I do think there's a choice that we have in your book, rich by Choice, but I also think that there's a certain degree of surrender that, we can guide it and lead it so much. But yet, just like you said, when you, oh boy here, it's come to prayer that it's gotten so bad and now I've got to pray and, and, and you mentioned being the perfect Christian. I don't, I don't even know those words go together. but what it comes down to is what we will often do is people that are wired like you are, like I am like a lot of our listeners, they're leaders, they're successful, quote unquote in, in the world system. But we kind of get in this mode where we believe we're all that and we kind of forget who we serve and what we're all about. and I think that's our ebb and flow. throughout life. So, one of the things I wanna jump a little bit here,

Sure.

'cause I read between the lines in your book. this is something that's always fascinating to me with guys like yourself and others that are, successful. They've done well in certain things, but to me, the most successful thing that we do is choose our spouse, or the Lord chooses our spouse for us. And I've seen her, I mean, in y'all's pictures I see a picture, I think it's Chelsea or Chelsea is her name, and I'm like going, just like a lot of us, she married way up the food chain, which is pretty obvious on that. But, tell me how that came about. Because what I really found is that many times you're talking about a god wink or miracle or whatever. Many of us, our real success, either we were. Ready for it, or God said This guy needs this.

Mm-hmm.

tell me more about Chelsea and how she came to be and, helped you, really get to the levels you've gotten him to in life.

Oh, absolutely. I mean, it is, I, I, and I tell my kids to this day, you know, who you decide to marry is the second most important decision you'll ever make in your life. And I truly believe that. Now, I'm still young. I don't got the whole world figured out, and I might be wrong, but oh my goodness. You to pick up the cross and follow Christ number one without a doubt. And then, and what that pursues next. But then the thing is who you marry. I, oh my goodness. Yes, it is. And I, I lucky. I'm lucky. I got so lucky and I tried to mess it up so many times before. I mean, I, you know, I spoke, my brother's a pastor. I spoke at his disciple now one time, and I said, you know, if God himself came down when I was 17, 18 years old and told me to write out everything I wanted her wife describe her, It wouldn't even been close to what Chelsea is. I and I, and I say, and I really mean that today. I mean, it, it really is. she's amazing. I mean, she is so much better in me, in so many different ways. And, and she's the glue that holds it all together. She's incredible. And she does it with such grace and beauty. I mean, you know, when we first got married, I was making so many, being young and dumb, I mean, I remember it like I was handling all the finances. I was, it was just silly. And it wasn't a man woman power. No. It was just, I was a financial advisor. I thought that's how I served my family. Like, I should do this. Right? Like I thought it was, and you know, again, we were on our way home from a little weekend getaway. we went to Lubbock, Texas to watch Texas Tech where she went to school. It was a fun place. Played golf with buddies, go to some football games, hang out with friends. But on the way home we got into another money disagreement and it wasn't a fight, but it was the same agreement over, we just weren't on the same page. It's like spinning your wheels in the mud, and we all know what that is. I mean, money and finance is number one cause of, of marital spats. And pulled the car over and it just to breathe because it was like we were having the same conversations and we weren't going anywhere. And I remember she said something to me and she goes, I just wanna know that we're in this together. And in my mind I was kind of like, what are you talking about? Like, man, yeah, we're in this together. This is why I get up every morning. This is why we do what we do. And so I reached out, I had these mentors and they gave me some books to read and some exercises. And it talks about that leaving Cleveland becoming one flesh when you get married, how important that is. And you know, Tim, I thought I was doing it. I was trying to do it. I knew the concept, but I wasn't living it just because I didn't know what I didn't know. And that sparked something in our marriage We did this exercise together, it's the vision statement. you take 10 pieces of paper and you go to your own parts of the house and literally you think about your life and write out everything you want to accomplish and not just, Hey, I wanna retire, or, Hey, I wanna start a business, or, Hey, I wanna start a podcast. No, you go into detail of specifics of what that's gonna look like. when you're gonna do it, the exact life, how you're gonna travel, what your hobbies are, what's your relationship like with your, your kids and family. And so you ride it all out and then you come together and you go over it. we had a lot that were similar, but we had a lot that were different. And that was fun. We learned a lot about each other. But it was us getting together saying, Hey Chelsea, do you want? What does that look like? Why do you want it? You know, it's silly that we never, life was coming at as fast. We didn't do those things. and not in the detail that this exercise that I go over in my book and that we did together, but Tim, that moment completely changed our relationship because, you know, I'll be honest with you, saving. Investing. It's boring. I mean, I was getting my paycheck to money coming out. That's not fun. But when you're building something together, you get excited about it. And so, us doing that and, and us yes. Running a company together, it's so much fun. And none of this would've been possible without her.

Yeah, and it highlights something. I think, we'll go ahead and go into this now. right before we hit record, I said I love talking to what I call money guys that, you know, money is in your DNA with what you do, and it's part of your business and everything, and there's a faith component to it because I love tying in the biblical and the faith component with money because I think in many circles it gets really weird and people don't know how to do it. And anyway, it can get odd. I think the same thing can happen. When we're talking about husband and wife, it can often just be difficult for people to talk about money. I can't relate to that. 'cause often I think I talk too much about money. I mean, it's like, Hey, how much did you make, man? How much? What's your car, man? It's like, oh man, how much should you make playing college ball, you know, playing when you were playing pro ball? Come on, man. and that's a taboo unfortunately, in the world we're in. I'm like going, nah, I mean, let's come on, let's talk about it, but talk about whatever you want to related to the challenges with faith and money. And then to piggyback on what you just mentioned with the difficulty that, Chelsea and you had, just

Mm-hmm.

about money is tough for people.

it is. and I learned this not only with my experience working with families, but also my own personal experience. I mean, as a husband, I wanted to be, you know, my job, I don't wanna say my job, but I felt the need to be, Hey, I want to give Chelsea everything I wanna provide for her. I wanna get her this and that, and do these things and be, the Superman in her life. Like, that's what I wanted. And if I couldn't do that, it's very typical, and I've seen this a lot with other spouses, that they feel inadequate. So when Chelsea would be talking about, Hey, these are things that she wants to accomplish, and I couldn't, we couldn't quite get there yet, I would get a little anxiety or stressed or, you know, Hey, I can't do that now. And you just have to understand and get to know each other on the psychology side of, Hey, what does money look like to them? And that's why the vision statement's so important of, Hey, what do you want? what does things look like in detail? So it is, I mean, I can't tell you how important communication is. I learned this, and you didn't ask me this, but I'll tell you, you know, anytime something big happens in our life, whether we have another child, we start a business, we move locations, anything that big, we're creatures of habit. When the ground shakes beneath us, things can kinda get sketchy or wobbly. Chelsea and I are real quick to get into some sort of marriage devotional, counseling marriage groups. And we do that, not even if we're having problems, 'cause what it does is it keeps the line of communication open because life gets busy. You know, before you know it, like after here, I'm coaching my son in baseball. we're running a business. we're on the go a lot. We're in that season of life, which is a fun season, it makes us stay grounded of, Hey, let's check in. How are things going? How you feeling? Chelsea's one, she'll tell you what's on her heart. I remember our first time we were doing devotion together. I said, you know, hey. What perceived notions did you have before we got married? Where am I succeeding and where am I failing? I tell you what, when I asked her, she answered, I learned very quickly that I better be prepared if I'm asked those questions, but it's important. So the first thing you talk about money and taboo is especially with your spouse, you know, constantly check in and what I love about books that we do together, it's dummy proof for me. I can literally read the chapter and I can go line by line of those intentional questions, those Oprah ended coach, that make it easy on me. And then especially, it starts and then the conversation just goes. But oh my goodness, do that. It's been such a blessing for our relationship and continue to grow together. So that's a lot of fun. And then money and faith, I mean, yeah. Do you want me to go into that, that store? I'll open that up and we can talk about that because there's a lot there.

yeah. Before you do that, I wanna ask something that I've had my wife. Because I consider myself a coach. Always wanted to be a coach. Growing up thought I was gonna be a coach, like for athletics and, in the education field, both my parents were educators until one day I found out how much money they made and I went, I'm not gonna do that. I didn't know we were poor growing up. I thought we had more money. but everything I've done has kind of gone back to coaching and I've had my wife tell me this, and I think this sort of relates to money too. So I'm gonna ask you

Mm-hmm.

a transparent type question.

Sure.

my wife tell me at times that I, I can be better at interacting, coaching, nurturing others than inside my household. And so you deal with money, you help people work through money, and I'm sure that she sees you do that with other people. Do you at times do that better outside your household than you do inside?

Yeah, that is a really good question. And I would say absolutely yes. There's times of that just because what I do. Just like you, I'm a coach essentially as well, just like you. And so you kind of get to that, that point. So that's why I love the books like John Gottman's got a couple of 'em, and I love that because it's an outline too, where I can't just step in and go, okay, hey, this is what we need to do. This is, tell me your thoughts. Tell me why. Let's connect on a deeper, level where, and that's so important where I and I, and I'm not ashamed to tell you some of those, marriage devotionals. I go strictly by the book and I'll follow it 1, 2, 3, 4, and then afterwards it'll lead to other thing. But I do just because to avoid what you're talking about and, um. I could tell you that I was this genius husband that could do it all on my own, but oh my. No, it's so much help. and then also we're very lucky to have, people in our lives to where we can reach out and go, Hey, I'm dealing with this, I'm dealing with that. that's really important to us. and we've been very blessed in the sense that we have a peer group of individuals and mentors that, we're surrounded by.

Hmm. I noticed also you that, you have a foundation. We have a foundation with our family also, that we are attempting to do some things together to give, to educate and other things like that. Tell me just briefly about that. I think a lot of people don't understand that concept. They don't want to spend a lot of time on it, because I want us to get to some things that are in the book, but tell me a little bit about your foundation and what y'all are trying to do there with your kids. And tell me, gimme the ages roughly of your kids because, I think many times the foundation, you're probably tying your kids in with it too, where you can, I'm guessing.

Absolutely. I mean, we have four kiddos, two boys, two girls. Starts at 19. Our oldest son, is Dagan. We have a 9-year-old little girl, Kinsley, a 5-year-old little boy named Brooks. And then we have a almost 2-year-old named Everly. And so we have a gap there. But I

Wow.

because yeah, the, the older ones are fun. 'cause during that season of life where they're active. You can go to like our oldest, you can go to college football games, you can, you know, play golf, do those fun things. And the younger ones, and dad, are still cool to them where they wanna give you hugs and kisses and, and, and cuddle with you. So it, it's wonderful. And so the foundation is really us giving back on people like I talked about, Rex, us giving back on people who have influenced us and things that've influenced us. So we talked about Rex that, you know, teaching us finances and or teaching me finance and how it empowered my life. So we will go to high schools and we, we buy 'em a bunch of Chick-fil-A and gift cards and money. We make it a fun environment and we teach 'em about money. We teach 'em about life. because my goal is if they can just start, 'cause everything in your life is compounding. It's not just money. And if you can start a money education, you can spark an interest like Rex did with me. Then they'll pay attention. Something else will come along six months or a year later and they'll catch onto that and then it just starts their growth period a lot faster. And then they're seeing it from someone who. Was similar to them, walked in their shoes because I'm not a teacher and teachers are wonderful, but I'm someone from the outside that not getting paid to be there, just doing it. and so we have education material where they can jump on and start to learn even more. We also do things like sending kids and families to camp, and that's church camp. Like we go to family camp. It's been amazing for our family. So we have some of the process foundations send families to family camp, which is like gonna church camp, but entire families go. It's a amazing, it's really neat dynamic. and then we send kids to church camp the summertime just because those things helped us when we were younger growing up. And so our foundation is, you know, trying to give back on things that I really, we've been blessed with on helping people. And I truly believe this, that our goal is to give people a hand up, not a handout. And there's nothing wrong with a handout because some people need that from time to time. But really try to help people elevate themselves to where they can create a better life on their own.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's good. There was something you mentioned, I kind of brought it up earlier, but in the book here, it was a chapter where you talked about, I guess, one of your girls had been rushed to the hospital and there was a sickness and all, and we can mention that, but

Yeah,

That week changed me forever because I finally understood. Control is an illusion, but love, purpose, and gratitude. That is what remains unshaken. I also at times think that if we put our trust, this kind of goes back to a fate thing, our trust in the finances. And it's interesting, the word rich. We'll talk more about what rich means shortly. I, there was a period of time where I put quite a bit of trust and I was saved and following after the Lord. I believed at the time,

Mm-hmm.

a lot in my bank account and what I had and I think that that was a bit of an illusion for me. Also talk about control, and I'm kind of tying in a bit of a faith component with this too, and how much of what we think we control, we probably don't, and I think people that are wired a lot the way we are and the listener is we really desire to have that control. So just whatever you wanna say about it, just share.

absolutely. And if someone has that desire, you talked about how you were a little bit more control on your bank count. I mean, that's human nature. I mean, we're imperfect creatures trying to live in an imperfect world, so don't beat yourself up over it. I mean, my daughter got really sick and, you know, not to go into the details, but they didn't know what was wrong with her. And some of the symptoms she was showing was very similar to cancer patients. I mean, we had transferred the cancer ward. I mean, can you imagine walking in to the cancer ward with all these beautiful kids, but they're fighting for their life and by the grace of God it comes out that it was something really simple that she had, was cured and we were out within a few days, but leaving. That cancer ward, you know, there, there's a bunch of kiddos there that never left and that's heartbreaking, but they had their beautiful kids and smiles on their faces and I mean, they so strong. And you realize that control. Oh my goodness. I mean, there's nothing, if that was my daughter and that was God's fate for her, there's nothing I could have done. the control is an illusion. And also too putting, like you talk about your faith and, and where you focus on what's on your heart. you know, if it's just money or, or pride in that, I mean that there's not a lot of happiness in that. There's not. and so when it comes to control, you've gotta put your faith in God. Now, I will say this though, when it comes to control, it's not really control, but God, we're made in God's image. And part of that is intellectually we can absolutely grow and intellect and choose to make the right choices to benefit our, not only our money, but our lives as well and be proactive and intentional. and you can control that. You can control your actions. Now, a lot of things we don't control, but those things you can. So it's kind of a balance of, hey, what do they say? control the things you can control and pray about the things you can't, which there's so many things that you can't, which I'm the first to admit that. But there are some things that we can be intentional about, you know, going forward.

Yeah,

difference. You are correct.

sure. Your daughter's doing well now.

Oh my goodness. There's one thing. It was Wow. But yes, thank the good Lord. She's good. she's sassy as ever. It gives me attitude, but she's wonderful.

Very good. All right, so talking about control, if I look over your right shoulder, rich by Choice is your book. I've got

Mm-hmm.

copy right here. I'll hold up for those that are watching. The subtitle is Take Back Control,

Mm-hmm.

master your Money, and Design the Life of Your Dream. So obviously there are some things that we can't control, but then there's some things that we can, that's where this rich by choice comes in. We've got a few minutes left here. So tell me, tell me the purpose, what, why'd you write this book? And then let's hit a few nuggets. What, why'd you write this book and, uh, and see what we can glean through outta control as far as money goes. So, tell me more.

yeah, it was actually a lot of events that came into place at once. you know, it was in the financial world and I wanted to document, almost journal everything. I was learning to simplify it that way. What, and I was doing that, but at the same time, my pastor did a series. Pastor Rick says what the Bible doesn't say, and it was a fascinating experience. He talked about a lot of different things in there, like, that people would think, Hey, the Bible says this. In reality, it doesn't like one that caught mine. Well, everyone knows, hey, the, the, the love of money is the root of all evil. It's not money is evil. So that's a very common one. He did that one, but another one he did was gambling. Betting. Now, I'm not here to say one is right or wrong, so please don't think I'm judging anybody. But he was in seminary school and he had his buddy, pastor Rick, came up to him and said, Hey, did you know that betting or gambling's against the Bible? It's a sin. And Pastor Rick goes, you know what? I'll bet you a hundred dollars. You can't find anywhere in the Bible. Or it says, gambling's a sin. And you know, I think it was a week later, he comes up, paid him a hundred dollars. He lost the bet. And the thing was, is I thought for the longest time it was, how could it not be? It's gotta be a sin, but it wasn't. So he did a couple of these sermons, this series, and it got me thinking like, well, what don't I know? Like, I'm thinking all these things and I'm a believer. I love God, I love Jesus. I want to do that. So I started the same process every morning. I'd read, you know, three chapters of the Bible. And if you do that, it's a little over a year long process. You read the Bible from cover to cover. Never done that before. I, I should have, but I didn't. but I was doing that along with reading all this, you know, finance material, and all of a sudden they came together. It says the exact same thing. Now, if you're listening right now and you don't believe in God or you don't believe in the Bible, hey, I still love you. I still wanna help you. I care about you. I'm telling you this, the Bible is the greatest success book ever written. I mean everything from Warren Buffett to Dave Ramsey, and I mean, you can find it and find it in the Bible. And so, coming back to the thing that Rich by choice is we have a choice and to be rich, yes, with money. But the goal is not just rich and money, it's rich in all areas of your life. You know, be a millionaire in life and creating millions of experience with the kids you love. A billion, you know, hugs and kisses from those precious grand babies. That's what Rich is. And, and yes, money is a part of it, but it's not everything I've seen lots of families that are. It's a hundred million dollars more and they'd probably give a lot of it up, or if not all of it, up to take back a few, few things in other areas of their life. Now again, the flip side of it, the other extreme is having no money and thinking poor is being closer to God. That's wrong too. cause if you follow biblical advice, you will grow and rich, you know, riches in all areas and you know, rich in faith is the number one thing. So that's what it is. And we have a choice. And it's aligning your money with what's most important. You understand who's important, what's important, and then using your money to to, to align with that. That's where true happiness comes in. So you can control the. intentional with your time and your money and things like that, and building the life that you want. and that's what I love about it because it's a different book. It's not just, Hey, you need X percentage in emergency fund, which is important, but it's not. At the end of the day, we're all uniquely different in a wonderful way. Our situation's different

Hmm.

might be great advice for you might not be great advice for me or Bob Smith up the road. So it's understanding who you are, what you are, what your desires and who you want to become and the life that you want to have. you know, what kind of experiences do you wanna create with loved ones? And then you learn the money tactics and you bring 'em together. And that's what I've learned, that hey, that's the control. We can start working towards that. once you start taking those little steps, that's where you start to feel more joy and more happiness, which is what we're all searching for.

I love how you broke it down that Yeah, I think you had three, three big categories and I'm getting to where I enjoy books that have I'll say short sections in them, you know, little mini sections just to kind of read through and 'em, and I've actually been writing some fiction and I'm trying to have that fiction be shorter chapters. I just think people's attention spans are more, more like that. You know, one of the things I know, and this is the thing that I really like to ask people that are in, in positions like yours, I know that you have the opportunity to interact with, and I'll, I'll call it minister, coach, work with,

Mm-hmm.

a pretty large number of people. What are some of the things that you observe? Maybe some of the biggest mistakes you see that people make. I know you're not gonna call out any names. what are some of the biggest mistakes you see people make, that you can share, that we can learn from? And then what are some success stories that you can share that just will encourage and uplift us?

absolutely. the mistakes, a lot of 'em, are just not being intentional. Like it's a life by d sign for, it's a life by default. I mean, and, and not making, or. taking action is a decision. So that's the biggest thing, is just taking the time we live in a fast world. I mean, life comes out as fast. I get that. But take the time to sit down and really internalize who you are, what your strength and weakness are. What do you want, what's important to you? What's the life that you're gonna live? some people don't know. Well, I have an activity. The booth talks about your happiness, the island. Look back over your life and when were you most happy? Who were you with? What were you doing? but then the common ones also on top of that are, Hey, yes, live below your means. Can't spend more than you make. And, you know, save, give those things are, are definitely important. So mistakes are, the loans I see are very common with, you know, what you've probably heard before. But the fascinating thing about my job, what I love is talking about the characteristics of success. So I get a behind the scenes look at a lot of successful people, a lot of success. And success isn't just dollars and cents, but you start to see people that are happy, successful, and successful across the board in their life. And what they define as success, not just money, but relationships, love, joy, security. There's common themes in, I call the virtues of success. It is, whether it be integrity, grit, perseverance, hard work, faith, and determination. So that's what I really enjoyed. the first part of my career is I got to sit down with these families and find out what works and then what leads to a life. 'cause a lot of families that we work with, they're in the later stages of their life. they've already built, wealth and they're trying to protect and preserve it and pass it on. one of the greatest joys, we have fourth generation clients. You know what that means? That's incredible. I mean, that's what we all want, right? We want to not only pass on our money, but our virtues of success, our faith to our kids, where they can use it as a ripple effect to benefit, grow their life in a wonderful way. That's amazing. And so I start to see these similarities. And it, might be a little bit different or they're used and geared towards a different way, whether it be real estate, oil and gas, or this or that, but all the virtues of success are the same. And I talk about that in the book. They're all doing the same stuff. It's geared towards who they are and their, uniqueness of their lives. But I find that so fascinating, and I love that. And we can all do it. That's what you talk about, you being sports, right? Being in sports, if you're six foot 8, 250 pounds and you can run a 4, 2 40, that helps you. But guess what? In the business world and money, we can all do it. And that's exciting.

What is something that's always interesting to me about the role that you have is what sort of pressure do you feel overseeing, guiding, leading, managing what, whatever words you want to use. This important part of people's lives. what is it like knowing that you've got 40, 50, a hundred, 300, or whatever number the it is

Mm-hmm.

they're coming to you saying here, and we know that there are ups and downs in the economy and different things like that. You talk about that some, but I mean, do you feel any pressure at all.

Yeah, that's a really good question. And I've had a a, I definitely have been asked that several times And the answer's none. I don't feel any pressure at all. And I'll tell you why. No, uh, really hear me honest. It's not. 'cause I'm being arrogant. I just hear me. When I first started in this industry, to be a financial advisor, to get hired on with a good firm and pass all your exams and tests and then build a business, especially when I started in my twenties, is. Almost impossible. Like it is tough. It really is. 'cause I didn't come from money. None of my family had money. So we had to, I had to build it. And thing is, is I had these mentors and when you're growing a business, whether it be in the financial or any type of business, there's certain activities, key activities, you have to find those. They're drivers that if you just focus on these and you just do 'em over and over again, I found those. And then what was great is when I would leave the office at the end of the day and at the end of every week and the end of every month, I had this great piece because I just knew that if I did these things, the results would take care of itself. Now, there's some ebbs and flows, but I did it, and I've learned that too in this process that I've had great, very blessed to have great men cores that had great success, great education pursuit. I enjoy it and I find out what works, and I stick to it. Like I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel. I'm not one of these guys that says, Hey, let me tell you what I've learned, and it's completely new and different. No, what I do is what's worked for generations upon generations. And that brings me peace knowing that, hey, it's proven. and I can tell people too, if they come to me with different ideas, I'll say, Hey, you know, I hope that you hit it big. Like I got this great stock tip, Nick, from my work buddy, it's gonna, you know, it's gonna pay out. I'll tell 'em, Hey. hope it does. I really do with all my heart. But you know, unless you're taking financial advice from somebody that you work with that owns their own private yacht, private island and private jet they take to their private island to get on their private yacht. You probably shouldn't take best advice from them. But the point is I don't feel pressure just because now we have a proven process that I stick with it and how we put everybody through it and every family. And so we work on that from one generation to the next. And we work a lot too on building up the next generation, you know, time at Yale, they talked about 85% of the problems that people go with. I talk about book and go down to two things, you know, 'cause most generation, when you talk about inheritance, it's dried up and gone. Now as we as parents, you know, that what's our number one goal to lead our kids to God and then help them create a better life than we had. Or we had, but no one's talking about what can you do to do that? And so, we just stick to these proven principles and I mean, it's almost like an old school football coach that just stuck in their way. We just do it, do it over and over again, and it works. And so, it makes my job easy. I know that, I know that's not the answer you probably wanted, but

It's, no, it's, it's interesting. I've got over, over to my left here, I've got a, uh, picture of Vince Lombardi,

Oh,

what, what it takes to be number one. There's a great book and I, I, I haven't thought of this book in a long time, but when you were saying that I was thinking about this book when Pride Still Matters, it was more, it was a biography of Vince Lombardi great book by the way. And they tell the story of Vince starting and these are professional ball players too, holding up a football and say, this

Mm-hmm.

a football to people that have been playing for some time. and some of these principles are just try and true. I think sometimes we try to get cute. We try to get, you know, fancy and listen, I. Love me. I've got quite a portfolio, Bitcoin and things like that, but then there's just some basic stuff too. What we got just a couple minutes here.

Sure.

me who should and, and the answer's not everyone, I guess it could be, but who? Who should go out and get this book? Rich By Choice? Who is it for? Who'd you write it for?

yeah, absolutely. and the answer, is everyone, and I'll tell you why. 'cause I receive a lot of coaching. I receive a lot of coaching. And, and They're like, Hey, you gotta find a niche. and you gotta get to a point where you only work with certain types of families. as I've gotten older, I understand that, hey, there's 8 billion people in this world. I can't help them all. They all can't become clients of Michael's family Financial. I get that. And, you know, we work with, here, we work, with a select group of families, usually at their closer retirement or extra strategy from selling a business that have, you know, wealth already built up. And so I wanted it to, to, to what? To all people to show them one thing, of what money you can build wealth, but it's not everything. my goal was to show people that, the Bible is the greatest money book ever written. And I, and I show all the different fundamentals that the Bible talks about. But then the goal for them to go back and go, okay, Bible helped me with money. else can it help me with? What else am I missing? And so that was a really important concept. And so, I mean, that, that's for everybody. It really is. Um, but it's also too to say, Hey, how do you build a life of purpose? How do you be intentional of building a life? 'cause we're all searching, we all know what we're looking for. We know what we want. We know what's gonna make us happy. How do we go out and get it? 'cause paralysis by analysis is real. I mean, everyone, there's a, a overflow of information out there, what works. and, and so that's really what it comes down to. Writing this book. Yes, it's best sellers and things like that, which is wonderful. That's fun. But what I really love is these success stories. we've had not only the reviews, but people come and tell me, whether it be a single mom of kiddos, using the budget strategy to create some room to breathe every month. That's a blessing for her. All the way to the other end of the expression of people who, you know what, they got to a point where they sold their business for, $10 million and I thought that was gonna be the pinnacle of their life. Like everything, oh, it's amazing to only have that moment not be as great as they thought. And to have unfulfillment, I mean, so to help them with purpose. And then everything in between a people, Hey, am I ready to go to retirement? Am I prepared? Am I gonna be okay? So that's really what it is. and it's not just all about money, it's about your life too.

Yeah. And I, you, you tie a lot of that in and I appreciate that. I, I appreciate that. It, it didn't have, and at times I actually love getting into a lot of technical things, being an engineer with my background and all that. But I think it was written at a very, like I said, digestible, uh, way, you know, for, for, I don't wanna say the average person, that's not the right way of saying it, but you know, for, for the person that might, be intimidated by financial conversation, it's not that way. tell people where they can find you, where they could get the book. We'll include things in the notes, but, you know, websites or wherever they can go to find you. and then we'll wrap up here 'cause it's been a great conversation.

No, Tim, I really appreciate this. Yeah, absolutely. And I, and I want this, I've got a couple free resources for you, you know, 'cause what we're talking about it, it will help your life. It'll turn worries and concerns into confidence and peace. You know, if you go to the website, which is rich by choice book.com, www.richbychoicebook.com, right there in the front, it says Free gift. Click on. It'll be a little green box. Put in your email address. You'll be able to click what's called compounding. It's so simple. There's a step one and two, and I'm gonna send you a free chapter. It's about compounding what I love about it. Talk about being intentional, and what it does is whatever area you're struggling with right now, whether it be your marriage and relationships, kiddos, yes. Money, business, faith. Because every aspect in our life is compounding either for good or for bad. And it teaches you how to take control of that and really be intentional with your time and effort and resources. Like being stewardship with, with God. It's not just money, it's everything. And so take this as this chapter is really important to me and it really helped me see things in a different way. and so that's where all of our stuff is that Rich by Choice book.com. And then from there there's three other options you can take advantage of if you want. Yes. If you, if you, if you're looking for help and, and you wanna work with us, wonderful. But also too, if you wanna learn to do it yourself, wonderful. We have options for that on there too. So you can take it whatever's best for you in your life right now. 'cause that's our goal. It's just to help. but it, like I said, my whole goal for doing podcasts is if you can learn one thing that excites you, gives you hope, That's, that's, that's all we wanna do.

Well, I've enjoyed the conversation. I'm actually scrolling through here, looking at the website. Now. There's a lot of stuff there. I think there was a link that went to your family corporation from the Wi by Choice. So anyway, those are tied together. We'll include the links down below. I enjoy the conversation. I love talking faith. I love talking about money. I love talking with people that are helping people through this process. So the book is Rich by Choice. Take back Control, master your Money, and design the life of your Dreams. There's the copy right there. So, you can see that we'll include the links down below. it's Nick, but we'll go formal here. Dr. Nicholas e. Michael, so, what a great conversation, man. I appreciate it. And, we didn't get, even get into talking about, you know, the state of Texas and all that's going on there. And I'm over in Georgia, all this kind of fun stuff, but what a great conversation. I think this will get things started for you. Go get the book, go check out some of these resources and letting it kinda lead and guide you. I could tell he's got a big heart that he just wants to help lead and guide people to a better place. And that is what we're looking for here at Seek. Go create those three words, kind of mean, all of that. We have new episodes every Monday on YouTube and all the podcast platforms. Keep checking us out, keep sharing it and just keep coming back. We'll see you next week on Seek, go Create.