Welcome to Animal Posse, the podcast dedicated to the people and rescues making a difference in the lives of animals. Today's guest, Veronica was back on our show in May of 2025, and she talked about animal cruelty and she is back with us today. Hi, Veronica.

Hey, how are you?

I'm good. Welcome back to the show.

Thank you for having me. I appreciate it very much.

There is an important issue that you wanted to bring attention to today. So give us a little bit of a summary on that issue.

The issue is abandoned pets at rest areas and it seems to be an epidemic. That is continuing. And specifically, there's the welcome center in Escambia County. When you're traveling east from, let's say Louisiana. It's the first welcome center when you cross the Florida state line. And there's close to 50 cats and kittens there. That are trying to survive. About a year and a half ago I stopped at the welcome center and I saw there was about 11 cats, and it disturbed me you could see that the cats were terrified but were not feral. They gave me every indication that they had been owned at one point or, belong to someone. I hate to say the word owns. I'm trying to get away from that, pet owner, I like to say pet guardian. Just because, the, implication that, pets are property is something that I don't agree with. Forgive me for saying owned. But yeah. I was disturbed. They were vocal, they were following me for food and wouldn't let me touch them. A lot of people don't realize that feral cats generally, will not vocalize because meowing and. Such is to communicate with humans and feral cats don't have a reason to do that. And they very often won't even come out in the presence, of a human that they don't know. So I was disturbed by that and I started writing letters trying to, just see, they were not ear tipped and that disturbed me and they were very skinny. So I fed them and I started traveling back, a couple times a month at family in Florida. I couldn't get any response. I did finally speak to the manager of the welcome center, and he was very rude and uninformed. He said, these are, fifth generation feral wild cats, and they've been there forever. I said, sir, they're not wild cats and they need to be cared for and they need to TNR. There's no need for that is what he said.

Yeah. Even if they're fifth generation cats, like why aren't they TNR?

Yeah, why aren't you allow 'em to get to the fifth generation I was real nice. He Was real rude and I said, and also they're starving and that's not a good look, for the welcome center. He said if you wanna keep talking about it, you're gonna have to take it up with the Department of Transportation. So I went out and bought that day. A bunch of automatic feeders and a few huge bags of cat food. And I left it in front of the front door of the welcome center just to nudge him in that direction. And so it was right at a year later I was traveling through and counted I think it was 43 cats. Wow. And then in the meantime, I had joined a lot of groups in the Florida area and the Pensacola area and TNR groups, asking is anybody, you know on this, I'll donate, I'll come there and help TNR them. And they said, they've never allowed, they won't allow us on the property. And so I just, couldn't understand and I posted again in the groups and said, now there's like almost 50 cats and kittens, in a year that's what happened. And everybody was defeated. I think people have tried in the past to talk to the facility about tnr and have just been shot down repeatedly. And so they're defeated and don't wanna try anymore. I couldn't shut up about it, of course. So I started writing emails. I wrote emails to the governor's wife. I found their contacts for their assistance, wrote emails to them. The Department of Transportation, got many emails and calls, and finally I got a response. I don't know, what letter or email made it work, but the Department of Transportation and the engineer got back to me about it. And at that point he said, thank you. It was basically, thank you for caring. We are gonna handle it. We're going to, and it shocked me. And I guess, at that point I realized, oh my God, am I responsible for the demise of all these cats? By bringing it up? By pointing it out, because he had said, we're going to trap them. Our landscaping crew is going to trap them and relocate. We are not going to re-release them onto the property. And I said, so you're going to trap them, not fix them or vaccinate them and dump them somewhere else to die and essentially make them someone else's problem? Is that the way they look at it?

That's stupid in itself when you have people that will go do it for free just to take care of the cats. So why are you gonna pay your landscape people to do that?

A hundred percent. And I, sent back a very lengthy email, touting the benefits of TNR, that the cats are not a public health risk. And then it got a little deeper, Dixie it, it started to become a thing. I started posting on groups and encouraging people to email this engineer who with all due respect, he has no idea. This is way out of his wheelhouse, he's irritated to be tasked with this job, of fixing the quote unquote cat issue. So I had some people that did reach out to him and then, I kept getting looped into all this discussion and emails. I was trying to explain that it's in not only inhumane to quote unquote relocate these cats to another area where they'll surely die. And he said we're also gonna put them at shelters. And I said they're gonna definitely be euthanized. Shelters are over capacity and. That is a bad use of Florida's resources. Why would you stretch the shelters even further when you can TNR? And there are people willing to, colony caretakers who are willing to take on the responsibility of caring for them, feeding. It was just Dixie as a brick wall, and I reached out to every national. Nonprofit like Alley Cat Allies is the one that honestly I thought would jump on the, on this 'cause it aligns with their mission directly because the way this is handled at the Florida Welcome Center is how it's gonna set the precedent for how Atlanta and animals are handled all over the state at, on government property. And so that's why it's very important to me that it's done correctly. And I tried to explain to him that you can't use your landscaping crew to trap cats. Are they trained, in trapping cats, do they know what to do with a lactating mother? Do they know to cover the traps up? All of these things. And he had originally said we are moving forward with our plan, but thank you very much for your input. And it turned into a week later. We're putting a halt on our plan because we cannot find shelters to accommodate them. And if you'd like to come on, on site and trap, we will allow it, but you cannot re-release them here. And I'm like, there's nowhere for these cats to go. It's really like I've been chasing my tail with this guy for, probably five months now. And what do you think about this? What is your take on, or is there something that I'm overlooking that would be an option to try and solve this issue?

That's a tough one. At least you got the permission to go trap on the property. So that is step one. Where are you gonna find a colony that's gonna be able to accommodate them, or, especially that many, you're gonna have to break 'em up into several colonies and at several acclamations that you would have to do. I guess you have to look at it as a little bit of a win though, because you did get that permission. Yeah. It's moving forward, but where you go from here is the question,

And I've, yeah. And I've gotten, the t and r groups, like I said, they were a little bit defeated. 'cause they've tried this with apparently this is as far as it's ever gotten. This has been an issue. As I understand it for several years at this, particular welcome center and what I've also come to understand is that it backs up to a naval base or a military base. And when a lot of the military gets deployed, they dump their cats there. When they get reassigned or get deployed. So I also encouraged the engineer I gave him options. I said You could put up signage, like why is there no signs that says no dumping of animals allowed? That's basic. And talk to the people at the military base and make it known that they cannot leave, abandon their pets there. And they haven't taken any of those measures that was just there last week. It is a win. You're right to have, people are willing to go there and trap, but they're of course all, they're stretched beyond capacity. They're like where are we gonna take them? No one big Sky offered to, they might be able to take a couple, but it's a really devastating thing because, they're out there. I just went again recently and there's so many kittens. And a lady I know that goes there and feeds occasionally, she said, I'm watching kittens. There was four kittens run over today. And it's also just such a bad look, for a Florida welcome center to. Allow this to happen. So I am now trying to get all the big nonprofits involved.. I can't even get a response. And I've emailed, I've called every number. I've even mailed, I've found out the contacts, like the direct contacts for the founder and nothing. But Lady Free Thinker, that is the only one and there's a couple others, but Lady Free Thinker is the only one that actually has supported the effort.

Have you contacted the Department of Tourism?

Thank you. No, Dixie? I haven't. See, that's why it's so good to have you know what I mean, to brainstorm. I have not, and what would you suggest? How should I approach it? I tend to approach things a little bit aggressively, I guess you would say, because I'm so passionate. What do you think would be the best way to reach out to them and say, what do you

think? Frankly, just like you said, it's a bad look. Especially for people who are animal lovers. I'm gonna say fortunately and unfortunately I have not seen the cats there. We go to Florida a lot. We usually stop there. I haven't seen 'em because when I see cats at welcome centers, like I freak out. And I'm like you I would have to go back and get some food. I'd probably have to go stop at that first exit and go back around and be like, oh, I gotta go feed these cats. And I'd be looking for the ear tips and I'd be worried about 'em. So I wouldn't be able to enjoy myself on my trip because I'd be worried about going on my trip and coming back and stopping and checking at the welcome center again.

Yeah, exactly.

I think that if you were just frank with them about that I mean there's a lot of animal lovers in the world, and when you go drive up to a welcome center and you have to see a kitten that's been run over by a vehicle, that is a very bad look. It looks very bad for the state.

Yeah, and I agree and Florida's made some big strides lately with, animal welfare. And so I would think, and I'm hoping that maybe, like I said, this guy, this whole cat thing is out of his wheelhouse. And I think that's a great, amazing idea. The Department of Tourism. It's interesting because Alabama Welcome center coming, I believe it's actually coming back, it's coming down west when you're crossing Alabama. It's a lovely site. There's a few beautiful big, healthy cats that are lounging around and I. Asked what the deal was. And she said, oh, we have an someone that works here. He gets them, he traps 'em and fixes them and then, cares for them. And I said, it looks so nice. It was, these peaceful cats, they were beautiful just lounging in the sun. And so I tried to bring that up. I said, it'd be a great initiative, for, just tourism in general to actually take care of these animals. 'cause children are seeing this, they come to the state and and the cats follow people because it's, very obvious that, a lot of 'em are just terrified, not unfriendly. They are not allowing people to feed them. I keep encouraging people in Pensacola. I keep making posts, if you're traveling to Pensacola or you're in Pensacola area, if you could, you bring them a little bit of food. And they said, oh we were told not to feed when we went on the property i don't follow rules like that when an animal is in distress, but I know a lot of people do. So I started telling everyone just to mention the engineer's name and say that he said it was all right if anybody says anything, I ran into a lady just last week when I was coming through. She was there feeding. And she said my husband and I drive this way twice a month and I couldn't believe that I'm seeing these, and they're just adorable. And there's so many little kittens right now. And she said, so when we drive through, I make sure to bring lots of cat food and feed them all. And it was really a nice moment because I'm like, to see someone else that cared. And I told her the situation and she said, I'll send an email to the Department of Transportation, pressure, them with TNR. I just don't know. It's just such a catch 22. He won't allow, them to be rereleased and there's just, I said, in the meantime, allow them to be rereleased on the property, just so they stop multiplying. Because can you imagine where this is gonna go in another year?

No. I can't because you started with, a few basically about 11 and you're up to 50 already, and that's what some of them passing away. So what is the number gonna look like in, in the spring? Just in the spring,

can you imagine kitten? They're gonna be literally overrun. The cats will have nowhere to hide. They'll be all out in the open. I just don't think they're seeing the big picture.

And then the other thing, since you mentioned that it is backed up against that base. Have you checked maybe with the base to see if they would be okay with the cats being released back there if they're all tnr?

I have not done that, so that's a great idea just to talk to somebody over there. I looked it up and they became an Audubon. I don't know what this means exactly 'cause it was cloudy when I did research on it. An Audubon property. I don't know where they stand on community Cats. I did find some information that said like a while back they were against Community Cats, the Audubon Society because of, birds and the bird population. Then I read something else that said that they believed in TNR and it Escambia County. Period. They have a TNR initiative countywide. And I asked him, the chief and engineer, I kept pressuring him. Why are you not bringing animal control on board? Like, why have you not contacted any local rescues? So what I did was I sent him a list of people, trying to be helpful. Like you can contact these groups. It seems to me where it gets uncomfortable is that if you are trying to do the right and humane thing by these animals, why wouldn't you have contacted animal control first? Do you see what I mean? Because animal control is gonna tell them to TNRI know it. They, 'cause they have that initiative that I think it's. Ally Cat Allies actually started down there.

Did you try contacting the shelter?

Yes. Yes. And that's another odd thing. I've called, I've emailed, I have written regular letters, and I finally, about six months in, I got one phone call from an animal control officer. She said, what is this that you're saying? And I said, I just can explain the situation. I said, they are planning a mass trapping and dumping of these cats, and that's against Florida's animal cruelty laws. That's illegal. And she said if they were doing that, I would know about it and hung up on me. And that obviously was just like her ego couldn't take the idea that she hadn't been. Invited to the party or whatever. So that was odd. And then she's never answered the phone again when I've called her, because I called her, the number back directly. So then when I started thinking about it, and then it started to get a little like more uncomfortable because I'm like he'll allow people, he must know it's against the law, to trap and just go dump cats in an undisclosed location. So he will allow us to do, come on there. And is that because he knows I just started feeling uncomfortable. Is that because he knows they could be held liable for doing it and they're trying to, is that the only, maybe the reason he decided to allow volunteers to go and trap. 'cause if they did so they in fact would be violating, animal cruelty laws in the state and could be held liable for that. So that's where it got a little weird for me, I just started feeling like there was some kind of undercurrent of something more going on that I was, being told.

Yeah, it's a really tricky situation.,

I feel if he's allowing volunteers to go do it, then they don't have to take on any of the liability or the repercussions of what could come of them trapping and dumping somewhere, if they have, other people do it, that's not on them anymore. So that was when I started, reaching out to people that were volunteered to trap and I said, let's just hold up for a second. We don't know what their motivations are and for all we know then they, call the police on the trappers. Like it could be a really ugly situation. And so that's when I started calling the news. I started calling the news stations and writing emails to, the investigative reporters in the area. Letting them know that, they were gonna violate the state laws, the Department of Transportation. And there was a couple people that got back to me, a couple news stations that were interested in the story. Two of them told me to keep them posted about what had happened and said thank you so much for responding, but I need you to do a story on it now. Not after that happens. There's, a lot of lives that are gonna be lost through this. I told them, then finally I was just like, I'll update you as time goes on, because I think the last thing that the Department of Transportation wants is a bunch of, animal welfare advocates protesting on their property, because that's what it's about to come to, I think.

That's insane and I can't believe none of the press will get involved with it.

It's very strange. I guess it's because, the press like, wanted to get involved, after the fact. Oh, let us know and we'll do a story on it. I said I'm trying to save lives. It's not a story for after the, these cats are. Euthanized or dumped and starved to death. It's a story for right now to prevent it from happening. And I don't know if it's, maybe because it's a government property. I think a lot of people are gunshot and get involved. So that's all I can imagine.

Is there a public area that's like adjacent to it somewhere that you could trap on?

It's such that welcome center, I think, as is just such a weird location. The only thing close to it is that, like I said, the the Naval base, which is a great idea for me to reach out to them. And I just need to figure out, the Audubon Society protocol, if they're super against. Community chats, then that's gonna be a No. I'm hoping that won't be the case, but if anybody out there would be willing to just email this chief engineer and, push the TNR because that's really, it's literally the only way, and every day that goes by, there's, more litters are being born and it's just it's like pushing water back in the ocean. This guy's just not getting it. No matter what, it is decided eventually for right now it, the problem is just, multiplying, every day. And I think that, and it's also a horrible thought, to think these cats are starving. 'cause so many people, like the manager of the facility said, oh, they eat, they kill. I said, sir, that's a myth that you know. Domesticated cats can just survive on their own. Especially ones that were abandoned. They rely on humans to, to feed themselves. And he said, oh, the cats rats and this and that. I said, it's, from what I understand at least, it's very rare for a domesticated cat that once lived with a family to go out and be able to eat rest.

That brings up another interesting Point maybe they do wanna TNR em and keep 'em around afterwards,

My friends that I go to Florida lot, they were saying, my kids would love that to see cats. But a lot of my friends have been like, what are they doing? They look like starving. And we don't ever, we have popcorn in the car and they go into the cats, we feed that to the cats and they eat that. The whole thing is just a very sad situation. And like I said, when I just went last week, there was the most adorable. They're all adorable. But these kittens that had, there were probably, I don't know, six weeks. And I put the food down and the mom, and it's the same mom that just probably a few weeks or a month before that I had seen her pregnant and videoed her. And sure enough, she had her babies and they are just, the cutest little things. And Dixie, I gotta tell you, I put the food down and the mom came over. Sniffed the whole plate of food, checked it out, backed up, came back, ate a little piece of it, and it wasn't until she swallowed that little piece that she looked at the kittens and they both came up and started to eat. And I thought that was really just so special that she went and tested the food essentially before allowing them to come and eat any of it. Yeah, it's so sweet. I hadn't seen that before, so that was new to me and I thought that was really nice. And these are kittens that honestly, I feel, could be, just scared. They could definitely become pets. It's just, I don't know, if animal control would get involved, that would be, I feel a huge help because I don't think that the Department of Transportation would go against the recommendations of. Animal control and the major animal shelter in the area. And I know they're not gonna say, trap 'em and dump them somewhere. If that's ridiculous, they're gonna say to t and r and I think that's what they don't want to hear, so that's why they don't reach out to them. So I'm just asking for anybody's help to just maybe send an email encouraging TNR. Because at this point it's just, it's a lot of suffering going on there, and it's not necessary. It could be stopped so easily.

It's very sad. And like you said I know the other cats that you're talking about. 'Cause I know going on I 10 East, I think it's the one that's in the rest area in Mississippi or if it's the first welcome center in Alabama. They have cats and these cats eat a lot. They're big fat cats, aren't they? Yes. Yes. Because we always see 'em and I still feel bad for 'em and it's I know they're eating 'cause they're really fat,

Yeah, they are. They're so fat. And that's what I loved. And when I asked the girl, she said that it was an, an employee, like I said. A few bags of food over there. I said, that's so wonderful. I'm dealing with a situation right across the state line. And I tried to tout that to the engineer. And I embellished a bit. I said, in Alabama they've been praised by tourism departments nationwide for their, empathetic and wonderful CAT program. He didn't want to hear it, he wasn't interested. But yeah, the cats are fat, they're beautiful. I love going there because, it's heartwarming to see, but it's interesting that I think maybe they put the wrong man in charge. It does not wanna budge, so I'm just gonna keep trying. I'm not gonna give up. It's been now a year and a half I've been working at this and I. It's, it's daily that I do something to try to, fix it. I'm still sending emails to animal control and still making phone calls and leaving messages. I just feel if I could get them on board. Do you think it's a jurisdictional issue? Because it's a government property, do you think that makes a difference of why? I haven't been getting any responses. Like is it that such a separate entity? You see what I'm saying? Because it's government owned.

I don't know. I'm at a loss, honestly. I

know. Is it right?

Like I said, I would say call the department of Tourism because I couldn't travel to Florida, see that and enjoy my trip in Florida without worrying about coming back and seeing if the cats are okay. And I know I'm probably not the only one, there's probably other people like me too, that you're gonna go and especially at the welcome center, that's what's welcoming you to Florida and that's what you have to see. And for animal lovers, it's very upsetting.

Exactly. I think too, and I'm the same way. Like I worry and the lady that I ran into that travels through there, that feeds, she said, I make my husband, go to Pensacola, she's it's difficult to get there coming east. Like it puts an extra, I think like maybe almost like 45 minutes on your trip because it's something about you have to double back. There's not an easy way to get there when you're going east. And she's I make my husband do it because I just feel terrible, and she's now it's getting cold. And so people have volunteered to put some shelters out there which that's not gonna go, he's gonna say no to that. I did send an email asking, but he hasn't gotten back to me yet. And, I've kept everything very cordial, very nice, but with every single correspondence that goes back and forth from me it has a whole thing about, how your TNR is the only way and why and how. And I just keep pushing. So I just don't know. I know that it's illegal to trap these cats and dump them in an undisclosed location that is illegal, whether you're the government owned property or not, that would be violating your state's own animal cruelty laws. And I made that very clear to him, and it finally came to me saying the state of Florida is not gonna look good. With the Department of Transportation committing abuse against animals and it was a veiled threat. But I think he understood that and he is we're halting, for right now until we can find farm homes for them. And I was just like, what world do you live in? I was like, what farm homes? There's not farm homes for 50 cats right now. Just it's just a, it's, the lack of education on the subject and the inability to open their minds enough to learn about it is just what's, causing the problem in the first place.

Would he even be open to a compromise I know this would be difficult, but even if you only had to find a place for half of them to go and leave half of them there.

Thank you so much. You've come up with some really great ideas and I'm gonna try that. I'll reach out to him tomorrow and say, what about, a compromise like you said because I think they probably, there's some groups in Pensacola that could acclimate them to their colonies, a few and like the kittens, those could. Probably, those could be adopted, so those wouldn't be as hard to place because they're kittens. So I think that's a actually a really good idea and just, then maybe not so many and they'll stop reproducing because it's just bizarre to me that they just don't care that they're reproducing as we speak. And there's gonna be, another 50 in six months. And then what? Yeah. And then I just encourage anybody that's traveling that way. I I posted on a lot of trucker websites, trucker groups on Facebook which I think is the neatest thing. I don't know if everybody knows they have like truckers, that are just strictly driving all the time, that look for people's lost and found lost pets. If you post there, if you've lost a pet somewhere on one of their routes. They look out for them and they'll post when they find an animal and what the location is. And I think that's a really, a neat resource that I didn't know about. So you know, if, post there, I just try to keep reminding people if they're traveling that direction, if they could bring some food and, just get involved even a little bit would really help. So these babies don't suffer.

Yeah. And then if any of our listeners have any suggestions, please let Veronica know. And please, oh please send emails.

It's the Department of Transportation in Florida. And if anybody I'll comment on the link of this podcast with the direct, information of who to email. Because, it takes a village for sure.

Yeah. And what I'll do is I can include your contact info and then you can go ahead and, provide all of that to them as well

oh, okay. Great. And I really appreciate you, Dixie, for this podcast. It's great. I love, it brings so much awareness. There's so many different areas of animal welfare that need to be addressed. And thank you for letting me speak on this 'cause it's really close to my heart i'm gonna figure it out. I'm gonna figure it out. I can't just do nothing. I've gotta keep fighting for the cats there.

Yeah, absolutely. I think you'll get it figured out too. You're relentless yeah. I'm not gonna give up

because also it's it's true. What if the, they decide this is how we're gonna handle any abandoned animals on government property. That's important. If it sets a precedent for how the whole state of Florida and then other states copy them. So like it's real important that they figure out a protocol that a way to do this, that's the right way, that's a humane way,

yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you for taking care of those cats and bringing them food and then trying to resolve this situation too.

Thank you so much, Dixie. It's been a pleasure.

Alright. It was great talking with you. Thank you. Have a great night. That's it for today's episode. I wanna thank everybody for listening and supporting us. If you wanna take that an extra step, consider becoming a member. We just added this to our website, animalposse.com, scroll down, look for the support tab. Our membership program is going to help us directly support animals in need, whether that be through vaccinations, food or spay neuter efforts.