3, 2, 1.

You are listening to the Horse Radio Network, part of the Equine Network family.

What a beautiful day for Horses in the morning.

You are listening to the number one horse podcast in the world.

Here is your entertaining look at the.

Horse world and the people in it.

Good morning, everybody.

I am Glenn the Geek from Ocala, Florida.

And I'm Mary Kitzmiller from Kemp, Texas.

And you are listening to Horses in the Morning on the Horse radio network for January 2, 2025.

Episode 3596.

Today's show is brought to you by Chewy.

Happy New Year, Horse World.

What is your favorite day of the week?

You never stop learning.

You never stop understanding.

It's more in depth than just riding a hors.

Exciting.

Knowing that for the rest of my life I could work on this and I'll never stop learning.

Well, happy New Year, everybody.

And no, I'm not Coach Jen.

She's actually outside with the farriers doing all three of the horses this morning.

And I had a choice.

Hold the horses for the farrier and get in trouble for letting him not do it right or talk to Mary.

So I've chose Talk to Mary because I thought that sounded like more fun.

So.

So, Mary, thanks for letting me join you today.

It's been a long time.

I know, I know, it's crazy.

Yeah.

I hope I'm more fun than holding horses for the farrier, but you never know.

Jennifer loves that stuff.

I could, you know, I'm like, vets, farriers, they're all yours.

You can have that.

That's out of my horse husband list of requirements, I think.

So far.

Here's a bit of a gossip.

So it's always.

It's pretty good fun.

I get the.

The hot gossip around town.

Aren't all farriers gossips, though?

Isn't that true?

They're just all that way.

Yes, yes, I.

But then everybody knows that.

You know, they're talking about you, too.

Oh, no.

No one has anything bad to say about me or anything to say.

Yeah, I'm sure they probably just talk about how pretty my hair is and.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

How clean the farm is, how it's.

All your animals are perfect, all of that.

I'm sure it's just that.

Oh, my poor farrier.

I.

Because we have a habit occasionally of having some different animals around.

I'm always like, Kevin, can you.

Can you trim this alpaca's teeth?

Can you clip this goat's horn?

Can you help me wrestle this unruly mini horse?

So I tip him very well.

You would have to with your.

With your green acres you got going there.

So I was trying to figure out this is the 14th New Year's on this show.

So since Jamie and I started the show, this is our 14th New Year's.

I was.

I met you at Road to the Horse.

Do you remember what year it was?

It had to have been.

So the very first year that I did the wild card deal was the one I showed up to to pick up my horse was 2013, and then I competed in 2014.

So we either met at that one in 2014 or the one the year after, because I then competed again in 2015.

So this might be our 10th anniversary.

I'm not sure.

I'm kind of thinking it was.

I know I met you.

We were broadcasting when you were competing the one year or both years.

I don't remember.

And then you.

Then the following year, you came back and did the commentary with us.

That was in 2016, I believe.

So I met you in 2015.

So it is 10 years.

Yeah.

Yay.

Or almost.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, my God, it's 2025.

This is.

I was wondering.

I thought I had known you for a long time.

I remember we.

We were.

We went out to dinner at this crappy little restaurant in a hotel.

I remember that.

Yes, that's right.

God, the little things you remember.

And then it was also the year you got the Z Donk.

Was the year you were announcing, I think.

Yes.

Yes.

Oh, well, maybe it was.

I think that was the second year I did the wild card because I had to bring two.

That's when we met then, because we went out to dinner, and that was the year you got the Z Donk.

And we went down and saw the Z Donk in the stall.

I remember all of that.

Yeah, that's right.

Yes.

I still have her.

I need to start putting her on TikTok or something because she's a pretty cool.

Pretty cool animal.

Have you done anything with her?

I've just pet her and loved on her.

She.

So she actually really, really thrives with positive reinforcement training.

The people who had her before me did a wonderful job with her, but she had a pretty troubled history before that.

And one thing about Long Ears is it's not uncommon to get one that has a habit of bolting.

And when you have a horse that does, it can be very serious.

Yeah.

When you have a horse that does it, it could be a very serious problem.

When you have something with long ears, it can be a.

Like, almost Unfixable problem.

So you take that and cross it with a wild animal.

And she's.

She's very well behaved, considering.

But, like, when.

When she was not supposed to be at road to the horse, I was supposed to go pick her up afterwards, and she did not have.

They never got her coggins done.

I'm like, I gotta get coggins on her.

So they had to bring her to Lexington to get a rush coggins.

And I arranged a stall with her rod of the horse.

I had to ask Tutti, like, hey, can I bring a Z dog to your fancy event?

Yeah, I was that person.

And so they, you know, so I arranged a stall for.

She's gonna stay with us before we headed back.

And when the trailer pulled up, I told the owners, I said, okay, go ahead and pull over in this parking lot.

We'll lead her in the back of this barn.

And she got this look of utter terror on her face.

She goes, we have to lead her into the barn.

All the way over there.

I'm like, yeah.

Now, mind you, when I bought this Z donk, she had pictures of her being ridden, of her wearing a costume tied to a trailer at some sort of event.

I talked to her trainer.

No one told me, and now I know to ask.

No one told me that she can't always be contained.

And so when they got her off the trailer, both she and her daughter led her together with a stud chain and two lead ropes.

And I go, oh.

So I.

I looked at the owner, I said.

I said, has she ever.

She ever gotten away from you before?

And they're like, oh, yeah.

Like, okay.

So, yeah.

Didn't we tell you that in the ad?

Yeah.

And, you know, so if you're ever looking at a mule or a donkey or a zebra, make sure you ask specifically, does they have a bolting problem?

Anyway, all that to say, she's lovely.

But when I do any kind of traditional training, she gets really shut down, and she just completely turns off.

And she.

She will attempt to bolt because she just immediately goes into that mode of, I don't want to be here.

But if I do positive reinforcement training, she is loving it.

She's like, yes, this is great.

So she likes interaction.

She just doesn't want to be well.

And what I've noticed.

Studying the behavior.

Exactly.

Well, and what I've noticed, studying the behavior science behind the positive reinforcement is you can get what's often called poisoned cues.

And so when anything reflects, you know, her past life, she just.

She doesn't.

She Turns off her brain, she immediately goes into either shutdown or survival mode.

And so going in with the clicker can often, like, rewire all those neural pathways and get them engaged again.

So that's what we do.

This is our why our friend with the zebras always said, you know, or two why our friend with the zebras always says, people that don't know about zebras or Z dunk should not own zebras or Z dunks and should not be breeding them.

But that's a different story.

So now my brain's hurting a little bit to try and figure out was dad the zebra?

Yes.

And I believe he was just guessing on the way her stripes look.

I think he was a gravy zebra.

Okay.

I was going with the mirror.

What's the.

The dad and then the mom.

The mom was a donkey.

And so as stripy animals go, she's really lovely.

Zebras can get kind of scary.

Like, I.

I know people buy them at horse auctions and do shows with them and everything, but based on the little that I've learned about them, I'm gonna leave that to the pros.

They.

They can be a little scary.

So she's the most zebra thing I'm gonna ever own, and I love her.

Well, I do want to ask you.

Jamie and I have often talked on the show do resolutions.

We're not big on resolutions.

You know, I loosely.

You know, it's funny.

I've been in business all these years, and I've been fairly successful at some of my businesses.

I've done some, not so much, but that's all without not being a really good goal setter.

I am not a good goal setter.

I have general goals that I do write down.

You know, the.

I would say the 50,000 foot goals, but I am not really good.

There's a lot of people that are really good at taking that 50,000 foot goal and then breaking it down at all.

It's fine tuning points, and I am not good at that.

I am good at generally heading toward that goal and achieving it sometimes.

So I know that's one of my faults.

Are you the resolution person or a good goal setter?

Where do you fall?

So I'm not sure if this is widely known about me.

Usually if you've met me for more than five minutes, you could probably guess, But I have ADHD in the worst way.

And so you and me both.

As far as you and me both.

Yeah, I think it.

I really think that it runs strongly through the horse community.

That's my little I think we're all a bunch of neurodivergence running around.

But so for me, resolutions and like planning and stuff, the pendulum swings wildly from.

I'm going to fix my life this year.

And I, I've got all these goals and dreams and plans which inevitably.

Yeah.

Oh, day one and, and then some years I'm like, what?

It's New Year's.

I, I don't know, I just, I can't think about that right now.

And I don't.

I make.

Part of me wants to one year come up with a super achievable New Year's resolution just so I can check that off at the end of the year.

And so maybe I'll, I'll do one this year.

I'll like be more petty or something like that.

Something I know I'll get done.

Go to the vet more, you know, that's something you'll know will happen, right?

Yeah.

Ride your horse once.

You know, something, something I can check that box off.

But what I do also do, without fail every year, even though it's a lost cause, is I buy myself a brand spanking new journal with all the bells and whistles and I'm like, it's gonna fix my life this year.

This year is gonna be the year.

So I've already done that this year.

So maybe that's how many days were.

Filled in last year's journal.

I actually have it in front of me and let's see.

When my life fell apart last year.

Can I guess?

Can I guess?

Can I guess?

Sure.

January 14th.

That's my birthday.

Am I right?

Well, at my age, yeah, my life does fall apart on my birthday.

I think I made it into the spring, really of last year, which is really good.

Yes.

And then something happens.

And so I'm, until I get my new journal.

I've started journaling again.

I'm refilling in 2023s.

Picked up where I left off because I did find finally a way to bullet.

Bullet journal that I could stick to.

It's still hit or miss.

It's more of the things you accomplish that day in bullet form rather than, than you're, you're writing poetically about your life that day.

Oh one.

I always think I'm going to be Jane Austen sitting at my writing desk and you know, like, I've got to get my thoughts down for posterity and that never happens.

I spend most of my time on tick tock.

But yeah, you know, I, I, when I first started bullet journaling, you could go on YouTube.

And they will have these channels of these girls who are brilliant artists, and they have these beautiful journals and they draw things and every month has a different theme and it's.

And.

And so when I first started bullet journal journaling, I tried that.

I remember in 2019, into my bullet journal process, I got as far as drawing 2019 and really pretty scroll handwriting.

And that's all I wrote for the year.

When you have.

You're an artist, you probably could do very well at this.

I could, except I have to have focus.

Yeah, that's where I fall apart, too.

Everybody's wanted me to write a book in the podcast world for a long time because I am one of the OG podcasters.

I've been doing this since 2006, and everybody's been bugging me to write a book.

And it's like.

But that requires a lot of effort.

That's like a lot of effort and sitting down and writing things, and I'm not so good at that.

You know, I've.

I've had the same thing people has, you know, because I.

I don't know if you can tell, but I like to go off on different tangents talking about things.

And I've had a few people say, oh, you should write a book.

And I've always blown it off because knowing I won't follow through.

But someone.

I don't think she's one of our auditors, but she does.

One of our auditor clinics told me to, you know, just, like, record your thoughts on your phone app and then get with, like, hire someone whose job it is to take all of the jumbled mess that's in my brain and put it to paper.

And I'm like, you know, I could do that.

I could just, like, get my phone out anytime I think about something and put the notes down or record, you know, record myself and then hand all of that to someone who can organize it in a way that I just will never have the commitment to do.

So you might.

Might consider that.

Yeah, that would last for a day or two.

Then I'd forget to record and I'd be back.

You and I are so much alike.

I asked you all these questions knowing I already knew the answer because we've known each other for so long, but we're a lot alike in many ways that way, especially with our attention span of a gnat.

So I already knew that.

Well, do you.

One other question, though.

Do you plan?

Do you have a general idea?

This year I'm going to compete in these competitions.

You did a lot of competitions last year or is that more of a spur of the moment too?

Actually, ever since I finally found a, an event and an association that I really like for the last three or four years, I have been really on top of planning out my year, mainly because I'm trying to get points for the year with my mustang, Remy.

So yeah, I do plan out the year ahead of time.

Okay, and you do that with Remy.

And, and do you think that planning is why you actually got it done last year?

Yes.

Well.

And I do have a pretty intense competitive streak.

The wonderful thing about this association.

I'm going to stop you right there.

Hey listeners, that's an understatement of all understatements that you're going to hear today.

Still a little bit competitive, which as little focus as she has with the mundane things like journaling, she is overly focused when it comes to competitive of this.

Yes.

And I also have a wild overestimation of my abilities.

Don't we all?

Exactly.

I have lofty goals.

Well, that's neat.

I'm glad to hear that because I knew you, you know, I was watching all your posts last year and I was like, wow, she is really competing a lot this year.

So that a lot comes down to.

You found a group you like to compete with too.

Yes.

And the shows are all in Texas because it's a Texas based organization.

It's called Stockhorse at Texas.

It's ranch classes and whatnot.

And the other thing that I, I'm a little odd about is this is a quarter horse heavy event with really very well bred cow horse, reigning type quarter horses.

And I bring my fluffy chubby mustang and I have nice quarter horses in my pasture, but I bring the mustang because I have to be different.

And so I've really enjoyed taking him and being competitive with him and so that has been able to hold my singular interest.

One thing I hear a lot in quote unquote neurodivergent circles is hyperfocus.

So we can rarely focus unless we get a hyperfocus.

And that's been my hyper focus the last three or four years.

That's interesting that you say that.

I never thought about that before, but I'm the same way.

Well, I was the same way.

I think about Horse Radio Network and that's why it succeeded because I was hyper focused on it.

Yeah.

And I could like, I can focus for, for 10 hours a day if I'm focusing on that one thing on Horse Radio Network, you know, or on the tasks.

Now I'm also, I Don't.

This would be.

I told.

We're totally boring, everybody.

We're going to get to your questions in just a second.

She actually has some listener questions, but I got to ask you this.

We haven't talked so long.

Do you find.

I have to.

I'm a good multitasker, but I don't finish things when I'm multitasking.

I can get it done to the point where I can, you know, it's.

We can move on, but I don't finish it.

To finish it, I have to hype.

I have to do that hyper focus thing on that one task.

Finish it, and then move on.

Yes.

So, yeah, I'm very much the same way.

There are two conditions in which I thrive in really getting stuff done, and one is in chaotic emergency situations.

I come in clutch.

I am amazing.

And so when things are down to the wire or it's some sort of emergency, I'm like, got it.

And I can multitask all the millions of things to get it done.

Working with horses, I'm very good.

When stuff explodes, like, oh, this cult bucked, and I was not expecting him to buck.

I can, like, I can be in the moment and handle it.

And the other one is I finally found after all these years that I do, like you said, have to narrow in and really be one track mind if I'm doing this task right now.

So when I'm.

I mean, my other business is doing artwork and making jewelry and where I do the best.

Instead of flitting about and just kind of picking up whatever to get done.

I'm like, no, today I'm soldering turquoise on these 50 pieces of jewelry, and I get my Book on Tape going, and I'm like, I could do that for 12 hours in a row, except it's really hard.

Oh, sorry.

No, go ahead.

It's really hard working in the shop with my mom, who I severely suspect also has adhd, but she refuses to admit it.

I think she does because.

Yeah, yeah, right.

And.

And so I'm trying to, you know, narrow in on.

I've got this order.

I got to get these 50 pieces out today.

And she's like, I know.

You know, we should.

We should start making underwater basket weaving classes or something like that.

Or look at this thing I just saw on the Internet.

And I'm like, mom, I cannot go away from this task.

But we make it work.

And this answers my question.

My next question to you.

I'll make this the last one, and then we'll get on with the show.

When you're hyper focused like that, getting things done, it annoys me when I get any interruption at all because I actually feel like I'm getting something done.

You just answered that.

That annoys you too because when you're hyper focused, you realize how rare it is that you can actually focus on something for hours in a day and not be interrupted.

And then when you get interrupted, it shows you all off.

It's.

So you just said that.

Yeah, Just answered that.

We're both.

It's so interesting when you meet other people like you, how auditors tell us in the auditor room, are you.

Are you the same way?

Are you adhd?

We want to know if this is a thing in the horse world and do you also have this hyper focus thing?

Talk to us.

We want to know.

I'd be curious about that because I think you're.

I think you're right.

And maybe it requires studies.

It's funny because also ADHD people tend to be.

Some of us are really good at multitasking because we are adhd.

Right?

So we're really good at multitasking because we can think about 10 different things at once and we can handle 10 different things at once.

And I think that makes a good horse person too.

So, you know, there might be something to that.

All right, this is going to be our next scientific paper.

Mary and I talking about this.

We're going to.

Oh, I'm excited.

We'll get that done next year.

I have a new hyper Focus.

Exactly.

I'm already starting the auditor subgroup on Facebook for it.

We have a brand new sponsor and we're so excited about it.

Chewy is your one stop horse shop.

From feed to supplements to supply medications and more, delivered straight to your barn.

With fast free shipping on orders over $49 and the convenience of auto ship.

You'll never have to worry about running out of the brands you trust and the products you need.

You can count on Chewy to keep your barn stocked and your horse happy.

Start shopping today@chewy.com equine that's chewy.com Equine Piper gets a medication called Daily Dose.

Not a medication, a feed called Daily Dose Equine, who's also one of our sponsors.

And we get it through Chewy and it just comes every month.

It's so n.

And we have a big Chewy warehouse right in Ocala.

So if you order something, you get it like the same day or the next day.

It's amazing how quickly it gets here.

So thank you to Chewy for sponsoring Mary's show.

How about we get to some listener questions because that's what they're waiting for here.

What do you want to tackle first?

Okay, I will just go with the first question we have up from Erin and Erin Grogan.

And the question is concerning her five year old mare.

She grew up in a herd on a large acreage, currently lives outside 24.

Seven run ins are available.

The problem is she is terrible in a stall.

Banging the door, pacing back and forth.

She doesn't use a stall daily.

But like with most horses, you know, there's times where she's got to be in there for a vet farrier show and she does have a buddy in the barn, plenty of hay.

But yeah, once she gets in the stall, she kind of goes a little nutty, which is not uncommon.

I was just going to say, I think we've all had a horse like this over our lifetimes.

If you've had a lot of horses.

Yes.

Yeah.

Is there fixing?

Can you fix it?

Absolutely.

And actually this brings up a really interesting subject I've been thinking about, which is, you know, I think horse owners, we've evolved and become more educated on what is the best practice for your horse to, you know, make their life the most fulfilled and enriched.

And one of those things is turnout.

And you know, if you have the luxury, being able to just have your horse out all the time in a herd is so, so good for them, which is how my.

I've got barns and stalls, but they are empty in during the day for the most part.

And my horses are all in a herd setting on a pasture.

I'm very lucky that way, so that's really great.

However, if you are a typical horse owner, you might want to go to a show or you've, you know, you've, you want to get all your horses caught up for the farrier and put them in stalls.

And they have, they might have to wait a few hours till it's their turn to get done or, you know, maybe the horse needs stall rest.

There's just a million reasons why you may need your horse to be used to a stall.

So I've learned with my horses it's, it takes a little bit of training, almost like crate training your dog, which I also believe is incredibly valuable for your dog's safety and well being.

So we have to work on it a little bit because I don't want to find out that my horse can't handle a stall when I've hauled him eight hours away and put him in a stall at the fairgrounds, and he's going nuts and getting, you know, breaking a sweat and trying to call it because he's just so stressed out.

So rather than.

So it's important to get him prepared.

I.

I think every horse does not need.

Is not required to be in a stall, but should know if I've got to keep you up for a couple of days, let's say my pasture fence went down or something like that, that you can safely be in a stall.

So some things that you can do with your horse are, you know, make it a habit every single day to have them spend some time in a stall.

And you can also encourage.

You can make it a positive experience.

So maybe when you feed your horse breakfast or dinner or, you know, you can give them a snack or something, make it a habit, bring them off the pasture, put them in the stall, let them have a meal, and then turn them back out again and just start there so they're.

So the horse starts looking forward to, oh, boy, I get to go to my stall because that's where breakfast is.

And then as they get used to that, you can leave them in there a little bit longer and a little bit longer every time.

The other thing that I do with all my horses that I think also helps create good stall behavior is I teach all of my horses to tie, and I build up until they can tie as long as I need them to stay tied.

Tying is so important because, you know, like with the stall, they're just going to be situations where I may need to tie my horse and they have to stand still, they have to not hurt themselves and pull back and all of that stuff.

So all of my horses stalled or not stalled, work on Standing Tide.

And.

And again, I start five minutes in the very beginning, and it's very supervised, but I'll build up to where, okay, I'm going to bring you and rise you, and then you're going to stand tied for 20 or 30 minutes after we're done.

Then you get to go back out.

Or maybe now it's going to be an hour or maybe today I'm going to bring you in, tie you up, work another horse while you stand tied, waiting.

And then, then I'll work you and then you stand tied for a little bit afterwards and kick you back out.

So I just do it incrementally and time.

You'll find that they get more and more used to it.

And once I feel like, okay, you're going to be safe in here, you could stand in here for a few hours I'll start doing overnight stalling.

So even.

Even if my horse never needs to live in a stall, I've got it set up to where they can be outside 24 7.

It's still important to work on at least a little bit.

Okay, so what happens?

You fed them now you brought them in, you fed them, they're done eating, and 15 minutes later, they're as Aaron says, banging on the do, pacing back and forth frantically.

Do you ignore them?

Do you, you know, what do you do?

Yeah, that can be tricky.

So I typically don't want to get them out when they're pawing because of course then they're going to learn.

I paw and then I get to go out.

But if they're like breaking a sweat, they're just.

If they go into that kind of just full out panic zone, I will get them out.

And what you might do then is you can get them out, take them for a little walk, do a little groundwork with them, and then try putting them back in.

But again, if they're in full panic, I don't have a problem getting them out of that situation because they're past learning mode.

So I try to set it up to where they're only stalled for the period of time within their little mental threshold that they can handle it.

So making sure you provide plenty of hay and things in the stall and having a buddy like Aaron is already doing is really important.

And then just kind of having a good idea of what your horse can mentally handle.

And it's the same with tying.

I will let my horse figure out that they are contained within reason.

So when I first start tying my babies, yes, some of them are going to paw a little bit.

Some of them might call out to their buddies.

Some of them might kind of weave back and forth just a little bit.

Within reason.

I'll let them figure that out.

But as a general rule, I am going to make sure that I keep those tying sessions short enough to where I don't end up in a situation where or my horse is frothing with sweat, just panicking.

And because it's just not gonna.

Nothing good's gonna come of that.

So, you know, get a good idea of how long you think they can handle and then practice that a whole bunch until it's pretty easy.

And then, you know, move the goalpost back a little bit.

Say, okay, you did good for five minutes.

Now let's do 15 minutes.

Now let's do 20 minutes, and so on and so forth.

And.

And you have to.

The key to that one, too, is you have to be consistent.

So if you're gonna give them, you know, if you're gonna give them food in the stalls, it's not something you can do.

You're going to be doing it every time till they get used to the fact that food is in the stall.

That's where the food is.

I would make that my new daily habit.

Yes.

I mean, and that's, you know, that's not easy either if you're boarding or whatever.

It's not, you know, you're.

You're not doing the feeding.

And a lot of times, so it's something that's going to take some effort, especially if you're boarding.

That's going to be.

It's going to be tougher for sure because you're not there.

But, yeah, there you go.

Hey, we had something happen the other night.

We're going to get to Claire's question and Kayla, too.

But we had something the other night that happened that it was New Year's Eve, of course, you know, we live in Redneck Florida, so it's like Redneck Texas, where you live.

It sounded like World War iii.

Our horses are pretty good.

And Jennifer has a new horse, James, the Kentucky mountain horse.

And we thought he might be a problem because he's only four.

We didn't know what.

What he knew about fireworks and, you know, all what sounds like gunshots.

And our horses, we lived on a farm for eight years with a gun range on the farm.

So they were used to loud noise.

That wasn't a problem.

So midnight comes on New Year's Eve.

I'm in bed because I'm old, and I hear.

I hear running outside.

And I was like, okay, it's got to be Jennifer's new horse, James.

I get up, get the flashlight, go outside.

It's my pony.

It's my hackney pony.

Scooter is just having a meltdown, and Nigel and James are just staring at him like, what is your problem?

He is having a meltdown.

Now they're all in separate paddocks, and he was not stopping.

I could tell, you know, I can tell when he just.

What you said there.

He's just having a meltdown.

And I thought, well, I'm just gonna go out there and hang out with him.

I'm not gonna bring him in.

I'm just gonna go hang out with him because I bring him in, then I gotta bring everybody in at midnight.

And sure enough, I went out there.

He came right up to me, and he was breathing harder than I'VE ever seen him breathe before and I don't know what caused it this time.

That was different than the hundred other times he's been fine at fireworks.

Isn't it so weird that sometimes there was just something that set him off, you know, and we.

I don't know what that something was.

You can't fix what you don't know, right?

I don't know.

I don't know.

It could have been somebody going by in the road.

He's.

His paddock's near the road.

It could have been anything.

Could have been an animal going through at the time, through his paddock.

Who knows.

But.

But I actually stood with him for about 30 minutes and he hung out with me.

He stopped running and just stood there and we just stood together for about 30 minutes until his breathing got to back to normal and the.

And the World War III stopped.

But yeah, it was something that never happened before and I don't know what caused it.

It was the weirdest thing.

So you just never know.

And Jennifer's new horse was fun of owning ponies especially.

They do have a life of their own.

All right, Claire says I.

Oh, they talk about ring sour.

Here is what we're talking about.

I have a client horse who has deeply ingrained habit of bulking when being ridden in the arena.

She will stop, kick and squeal and refuse to go forward.

I believe it started because of forceful riding combined with poor settle fit.

I believe believe that's part of it for sure.

I've worked with her for months and she has gotten much better using positive reinforcement and redirecting her thought, but still has the idea that things aren't going to work out in the ring.

She's apparently fine when she trail rides and when she lunges and things, but not so good in the ring, obviously.

Ring sour.

And we've all known horses that have gotten this way when usually when what I call being over showed.

Right.

They're at their limit and they're done.

So what do you got with that one?

Yeah, unfortunately that's not a terribly uncommon habit, especially if your arenas on the smaller side.

You know, after a while they feel like they're boxed in and they do just start kind of developing this little sour attitude about it.

But then some of them are getting bored, right?

They're just bored.

Yeah.

I'm sick of doing the same pattern over and over and over again.

Yeah.

And then you take them out to the pasture and they're perfect.

They love it.

Their ears go up, they want to go forward and all of those wonderful things, things.

So, and usually that is the indicator, like Claire is saying, where, okay, when I lunge, it's fine, when I'm, you know, when I'm riding out, it's fine.

But when the arena, you have a totally different horse.

So the tricky thing here is obviously you don't want the horse to do the bulking and, and kicking and squealing and refusing to go forward.

You, you want to work through that.

But if you end up having a knock down, drag out fist fight with your horse in the arena, it only makes the arena that more unbearable for them.

So we dealt with this.

Training reigning horses all the time reigning.

Horses is a popular thing.

Yeah.

Part of training rainers is getting all the buttons put on them and then the rest of their lives it's keeping their mind sound because it is very, it's a high pressure job for them.

And especially with these young horses that are in these futurity programs where you're really training up hard for two years leading up to this maturity.

And it's mostly arena work.

You know, I have my own thoughts regarding age and doing that, but that's a whole other show.

But some of the things, ways that we would solve it is, is to take them out of the arena and okay, let's go ahead and let's go hack out in the pasture today even, even a rainy horse, because that's part of getting them ready to show, even if you're not working on your spins and stops and things like that.

And it's something that a lot of young assistant trainers have to have drilled into their heads by their bosses because we tend to get hyper focused on.

I've got to get the horse ready.

You know, our spins aren't that good and that we need to work on this and this and this.

And we drill on them too much and after a while it just starts to fall apart and you get some of this behavior like what Claire's experiencing.

And you know, my attitude, my inclination was always to work harder.

Like, you know, no, you can't do that.

We've got to fix this.

And my boss would yell at me like, you know, just take them out, put them on a loose ring neck, ring them like a good old, you know, ranch pony and leave them alone.

They need some of those mental health days and then come back next week and work on it.

So I really had to learn that.

But once the problem is really ingrained, which it does sound like we're dealing with here, sometimes taking them out for a Few days just.

Just doesn't quite get them over it.

Like it's good for them to go out, but then they go back to the ring and they punk out again.

So in that case, you want to start making the arena a little bit more novel for them.

Again, you want to really cut down the amount of time you're working them and try very hard to end on a good note.

So using the positive reinforcement thing is a great idea.

One of the exercises I like to do with a horse like this is, is called post to post, which is where you just pick a point in the arena, you know, a fence post or you know, the dressage letter, whatever kind of landmark you can find, and you just ride your horse to that point and just get him from one end of the arena to the other.

I do this on a loose rein.

I don't do any kind of collection or lateral work or anything like that.

It's very simple.

Just ride to this point, put your nose on this point in the arena, and once we get there, I stop and let them rest.

If you're using positive reinforcement training, this is a great place to click and treat.

And all you're rewarding is, yeah, you made it from point A to point B.

I almost don't care what happened in between.

If it took us a little while to get there, if they weaved or anything like that, I leave that alone.

Alone within reason.

And once we've sat there for a little bit, I will look across the arena, find a new point.

Maybe I'll ride into the corner and I look at it and I ride my horse there.

I like to do this at a trot or a canter, but walking is totally fine too.

And again, we're just going to treat him like he's a brand new baby horse who barely knows steering.

I don't care what level he is in his riding.

I.

We're just wiping that all away for now.

And I'll ride my horse to that corner.

And then once they get there, if you're not using treats, then you can just let him rest there, scratch them on their neck, let them have a little break, or you can click and treat.

And we're going to make a game of this.

Like, now let's go ride to this target.

Now let's go ride to this target.

In fact, if you are target training your horses, meaning teaching them to touch a target, such as a cone or, or an actual clicker training target, I've done this where I've set up these extra large road cones or pole bending poles in my arena at different points.

And I've ridden my horse to each and those in the middle of the arena and say, okay, touch this cone, click treat.

Now let's go turn around and go touch that cone on the other side of the arena, click treat.

And you're just trying to unscramble your horse's brain and give them a win.

And I found that is way more helpful when you have a horse that doesn't want to go forward than just trying to kick on him and push on him.

And now you're fighting and headbutting and it's a unbearable experience for both of you.

So that's where I would start with this horse is something very simple like that.

In general riding, I would, in the arena, I go back to loose rein riding.

Give make your goals very attainable.

Again, kind of pretend for a little while that this is a brand new baby horse that's just out of the round pen and they don't know anything.

So I wouldn't try to collect them up and put a ton of leg on them and do all this lateral and whatnot.

I would just ride them in the arena.

Like you're on a trail ride.

Anytime, whether you're doing the exercise I just talked about or you're riding a 20 meter circle or you're just riding around the rail.

Anytime that that horse frees up and goes forward from your leg, I would treat it like they won the Olympics.

So you can click and treat.

Or what I like to do as well is, oh man, you know, I put a little leg on you and you just really came into that trot beautifully.

And you ext that trot.

Soon as they get there, I'm going to like stop.

I'm going to have them come to a stop, loose train, let them have a break for 30 seconds, rub on them, scratch their neck.

I just want that horse to know if you put in any effort, I'm going to recognize that effort.

I think a lot of horses get sour because again, we can get into that hyperfocus mode and drill and drill and drill.

And we miss all of the good things our horses are doing along the way.

And after a while the horse is like, you know what?

I've been so obedient.

I've done this and this and this and I get nothing for it.

You just keep riding me around this little pen.

So I'm done.

I'm going on strike.

And not saying that's what you've done to your horse.

It just happens.

It could be a past life, like, you know, we suspect here.

It could just be, you know, I'm just tired of the arena.

So all in all, I would just reassess your goals and reward, treat every little try they give you like it's the best thing in the whole world.

And usually that can give you start starting point to start building that relationship up again in the arena.

Very good.

Kayla wants to know, and this is.

This is funny because we.

We discovered something about James, Jennifer's new horse.

I ride bike, and I came riding it just, you know, went out and rode my bike around the neighborhood and then came back and went riding into the barn like I always do.

I ride in and park my bike.

And James was inside, and he bolted out the stall out into the pasture, and.

And I was like, oh, James doesn't know what a bike is.

You know, it's funny, when they're four years old, our horses were fine with bikes from day one when we got them.

And, you know, I go out riding with Jennifer all the time on my bike.

She's on her horse, and you forget sometimes what they don't know.

So now we're working on bike training.

You know, we're desensitizing to the bike.

So we did that yesterday.

But Kayla kind of has a different one here.

How can I introduce wearing a sheet to a young horse?

Odin is very, very sensitive.

Sensitive.

But I would like to start putting him out in the rain sheet for inclement weather.

Throw it on, turn them out, and watch the bucking.

That's the horse husband way right there.

Oh, I've seen that happen.

Get your video camera out first, though.

Yeah.

Talk is a wonderful thing.

Yeah.

Your sheet will be eight handkerchiefs by the end of the.

I knew you'd have a better plan than mine, but, you know, yeah, I'm here to help.

Sometimes, you know, most.

Most of the time you can get away with saying, okay, here's a sheet.

Good luck.

But it sounds like Kayla has a very good understanding of her horse's personality and understands that maybe this is something we should do a little training with.

So for the most part, when I introduce a sheet to my young horses, I'll do a little desensitizing with it.

I'll wad it up in a ball and rub them all over.

And usually from there, I can throw on the sheet, and they're like, oh, I'm wearing a sheet.

But the reason I can get away with that is because often with these horses I'm doing this with, they have a Strong history of groundwork.

So I've done a lot of desensitizing with different things ahead of time.

So when I start doing that with the blanket, the horse is like, oh, yeah, I got it.

And they can fill in the dots and I can just throw the sheet on them and it's all good.

But every once in a while, you'll get one that's extremely sensitive and that horse needs its handheld air every step of the way.

Or maybe it's a horse that hasn't had groundwork yet.

So you can start with a sheet if you want.

You can fold it into a, you know, a smaller, more digestible, tinier object and work on.

Start starting to rub them everywhere with it.

Or if.

If you're like, ah, even that's going to be a little iffy.

Work on other things to desensitize your horse with.

So I'll.

I'll use a flag, a horseman's flag, often.

Sometimes.

So it's a.

It's a little stick and it's got a little square piece of.

It's sometimes it's a plastic bag, sometimes it's a little kind of crinkly type fabric.

And so that's really small and easier for.

To get your horse used to before you move on to something bigger like a sheet.

So my crash course in desensitizing, if you've never done that, is SO one.

I would have a decently long enough lead drop at least.

Least 10ft.

12 or 14 is even better.

I would do the desensitizing in a safe area.

So don't introduce a sheet to your horse for the first time in the barn aisle and your horses and cross ties, because that is a recipe for disaster.

Take them somewhere that's got good fencing and good footing.

So you could do it out in the pasture.

You could do it in your arena.

I like to do it in the middle of my arena, not close up next to a fence.

Gives them plenty of room to move around, and I'm not going to get smushed if they slam me into a wall or anything like that.

And when you're teaching your horse to accept new things touching all over them, where you want to stand is about an arm's length away from them at their shoulder.

You don't want to be directly in front of them and you don't want to be too far behind that shoulder.

So that's in an area that's relatively safe.

You're usually out of the kick zone and you're, you know, you're out of that zone.

If they decide to run forward or they decide to strike out out at the scary thing, you can usually avoid that.

Now, where you hold your rope is going to be very important as well.

So when our horses are pretty nervous, sometimes we want to choke up and really do kind of have a death grip on that halter because we don't want the bad things to happen.

So we're like, you stand still and we really have a hold on him.

But that's just going to make the horse feel more trapped.

So I want probably about, I don't know, 8 to 10 inches away from the snap of my lead rope is where I'm going to hold that rope so long enough that I have a nice loose hold on them.

If they're standing still, it's.

They don't feel any pressure from me.

But short enough that if all of a sudden my horse freaks out out of nowhere, I'm not tangled up in 8ft of rope and, you know, in danger of the horse running past, getting the rope out of my hands, kicking me as they go by, all those fun things.

So that's, that's step one, one.

Whatever I'm introducing to my horse, I.

I'm going to do at my horse's kind of withers and back area first, because that's the least sensitive area of my horse's body.

As a general rule, you're away from the feet and the head and the eyes and the ears and the belly, where they tend to be more defensive.

And I will begin by either moving that object around the withers and back area, or if I feel like they can handle it, I'll rub them on the withers and back area.

So your horse may just stand still and accept it perfectly.

Great.

If they do, you can move on.

If they don't, if they completely freak out, then that tells me, okay, I need to back off and make this even easier for them.

But if they, if they're just moving around like, oh, I don't know if I like this.

What you want to try to do is continue to move the scary thing and continue to stay glued to their shoulder.

So if a horse goes backwards, you walk forwards with them.

If they run forward, what you're going to do with your lead rope hand is you're going to.

I'll give them like a little bump or I'll turn their nose in my direction so that they can only go around me, yielding their hindquarters instead of just running flat off.

So I just control what they do with their feet and try to get it to where.

If you're moving your feet, you're usually in a hindquarter yield, meaning your front end's relatively still and you're moving your hindquarters more than your four quarters.

Because one, that's going to keep me safe.

I can go in circles with that horse all day and not lose a hold of them or get in a dangerous area.

And the horse has to work a little harder to move in that small circle.

So after a while he'll go, is this really worth freaking out about?

I think I'm going to stand still.

Once he stands still, I will usually continue moving or rubbing with the scary thing until he commits to really keeping those feet nice and still.

So he stands still for 10 or 15 seconds, or he shows me a sign that he's relaxing.

So that could be dropping his pole, you know, taking a yawn, taking a deep breath, licking his lips, cocking a hind leg, any of those things.

Once that happens where the horse is going to stand still and be accepting of the scary thing, I take the scary, scary thing away and let them know that's exactly the answer I wanted.

So, again, this is a crash course.

I could do a whole hour on how to do this.

But there's a lot of groundwork programs out there that has some version of this that I think it's very important for all horses, whether they have to wear sheets or not to learn.

And when you get in a habit of doing this with.

With different objects.

So I start.

Usually the easiest thing I start with is my horse's own lead rope.

Because it's soft, it doesn't make a lot of noise.

I'll toss that lead rope all over the horse, all over its body.

Again, I start with the withers and back.

The next body part I do is the hindquarters.

The next body part I do is on the neck.

And then I will do the hind legs, then the front legs, and then the last areas I'll desensitize a horse to.

Scary things would be around their face and their belly, because those are really sensitive areas.

And sometimes I can get this all done in one day.

Sometimes it takes several days or weeks before, like with my mustang.

Sometimes it takes a while before I can touch their legs with something.

You just take it at the horse's pace.

But once you get them in a habit of getting desensitized to all sorts of things, when you do move up to something bigger and scarier, like a sheet or a tarp, for instance, they usually know the name of the game.

Like, oh, okay, my owner does this to me all the time.

I know what I'm supposed to do to where if they're still a little nervous about it, it's very manageable.

They don't just go into full blown panic mode.

Now back to the sheet.

Before I put a sheet on the horse, you know, where you're committed, that thing is on him.

And so whatever happens, happens at that point.

So if I have one that's particularly sensitive, I want to make sure that I can move that sheet all around him.

I can kind of flop it up and down and it's.

He doesn't freak out.

It can rub every single part of his body.

It can go all over his legs.

And again I'll ball this, ball it up so it's easier for me to hold and it's smaller.

I can rub them on their belly, I can rub them up on their face with it and they're just standing there bored to tears.

If they can handle that, they can usually handle wearing it.

And you can even sling the sheet over their back like a saddle, blanket it and have them walk forward a few steps.

Just be careful with that because if the sheet falls off on the other side, you know, you could.

You're in danger of them kind of running into you.

So I keep it very controlled and I always take the sheet away if it's way too scary or once they are standing still and accepting it.

Very good.

Well, Mary, thank you for doing that.

We've run out of time here, believe it or.

Or not.

So we have another question from Mary that we'll get to about hand walking and learning teaching a horse not to basically go past you or run you over while hand walking.

But I think that's another 15, 20 minutes.

So why don't we put that one first on next month.

So, Mary, we'll get to yours next month.

Mary, it's been fun.

It's been fun to do this with you again.

It's been a long time.

I know.

This was great fun.

Jennifer will be back.

Don't worry.

I know you guys love Jennifer and Mary together and I do too.

So she'll be back next month.

I'll make sure she, she doesn't schedule the farrier during Mary's show.

But this was with the holidays and everything is the only time you could come out.

So I'll try not to be offended.

Mary, where can people find you?

Where.

What's the best place you can find me on Facebook?

Mary Kitzmiller.

Horsemanship.

I also have a website, marykitzmiller.com and.

You can find all the show notes and everything about horses in the morning@horsesinthemorning.com you can also follow us on Facebook.

And don't forget, Mary has her own podcast feed.

So if you want to easily find her past episodes of this, by the way, there are 56 of them.

Just search for Mary Kitzmiller training in your podcast player and that'll pop up.

So if you don't want to weed through all the horses in the mornings, thousands of episodes, you can just search for Mary kitzmiller training and it brings up all her past episodes.

Just those.

So there are 56 of them, Mary.

Can you believe that?

I know, I know.

It's been a, a lot.

So thank you everybody for joining us today.

Jamie and I will be back tomorrow.

We'll start a new year of really bad ads and silliness.

So that'll all happen on tomorrow's show.

Thanks, Mary.

Talk to you soon.

All right, thank you.